Since this site is named “Stuff Fundies Like” I suppose it behooves us to come up with at least a broad definition of who these fundamentalists are and what makes them different from their mere evangelical counterparts. The task is far from simple for a variety of reasons not the least of which is that those who claim the title of “fundamentalist” disagree vehemently about who should and should not be privileged to share it with them.
George Marsden has famously described Christian fundamentalists as “evangelicals who are angry about something.”1 That definition is, perhaps, more true than most fundamentalists will admit but it lacks a certain amount of specificity. There are, for example, many evangelicals who are prone to anger and yet fall outside of the the Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) circles about which most of this blog is written.
When pressed many IFB members will claim that being a fundamentalist means simply holding “the fundamentals. The five most commonly held fundamentals of the faith have been:
- The inspiration of the Bible by the Holy Spirit and the inerrancy of Scripture as a result of this.
- The virgin birth of Christ.
- The belief that Christ’s death was the atonement for sin.
- The bodily resurrection of Christ.
- The historical reality of Christ’s miracles.2
However, even this fails as an accurate test for this would cover many in the Southern Baptist Convention, some Bible Presbyterians, and many other non-denominational churches with whom any good Independent Fundamental Baptist would not associate. Indeed, neither the author nor many of the readers of this blog have any problem with many or all of these points even though they have long since left attending a fundamentalist church.
What becomes readily apparent after a certain amount of time is that the IFB movement has not only separated itself from those who practice “liberal theology” (which encompasses everything from infant baptism to using modern Bible versions) but also parts with those who participate in any part of the post-1960’s American culture that it considered to be “worldly.” This latter separation includes a large focus on certain types of music, styles of dress, the movie theater, alcohol, and a seemingly endless number of other activities. In reality it is these standards rather than any true doctrinal test that define the “fundamentals” for most Independent Baptist Fundamentalists.
As these fundamentalists have begun to vie for the position of being more and more separated from their brethren by taking more and more extreme stances, many thoughtful and reasonable people have left the movement leaving a good number of churches and schools headed by increasingly radical and isolationist leaders. As the leadership heads into what is formally known in ecclesiastical circles as “crazypants town” so the congregations follow them to the mixed amusement and horror of those of us who grew up in the movement. Here at SFL we chronicle and scrutinize this slow drift of the IFB to oblivion with posts that are sometimes satirical and sometimes serious and sometimes simply the fundamentalists in their own words.
If you’ve ever been an Independent Fundamental Baptist or know someone who has been I invite you to stay and chat a while. After all, your IFB friends and neighbors are mostly likely already here.
1 Marsden, George. Understanding Fundamentalism and Evangelicalism. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1991.
2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism#Christian_origins
The fact that you have taken the time to construct a website around this topic tells me that you’re probably a little cry baby wimp who got his “wittle feewings huwt” by what you call a “fundy” 20 years ago and you just can’t let it go. lol.. what kind of loser dedicates this much time to such an endeavor? Truly, a new low in human society… Why don’t you be a man and show yourself and put your address on this site instead of hiding behind the web like the pathetic excuse of a man that you are… Huh? You’ll never do it will you? lol… Loser…
Is Jim Bobz your real name? Just curious. My real name is Darrell and my picture is right over there <--- You'll find out all about me if you go to darrelldow.com I have no reason to hide from or fear the likes of you. I've seen really scary things in my day and you're not them. You're just mildly annoying.
Dear Jim Bobz,
It’s good to hear from you. I hadnt heard how you was doing since you and your missus got devorced. At least you kin still see her at famly reunions sense shes still yur sister.
Darrell uses his real name and picture on this site, and he has revealed his home town and a whole lot of other personal information here. So whatever you may think of him and his activities, the charge that he’s hiding is a non-starter.
“Why don’t you be a man and show yourself and put your address on this site instead of hiding behind the web like the pathetic excuse of a man that you are… ”
Does trolling websites and forums to leave comments lacking in contextual relevance, factual accuracy or intellectual profundity make you a man? Guess I’m doing it wrong too Darrell . . .
Please let me address you in your native tongue . .
Durr durr dududurr dudurrr
Forgot to add:
To Jim Bobz, with love
Mr. Driscoll?
You think this site is a waste of time and yet, you choose to comment…
Just out of curiosity what do you think about “fundies” like me who are humbled by God and His grace.? I’m not angry all the time like you’ve stated as a characteristic. Though sin does make me upset. I have good close friends who are not ifb, we disagree but our relationships don’t end because of it. Just because there are some like you describe doesn’t mean all of us are like that.
Amber, you are certainly a breath of fresh air when it comes to th be ifb church. I have over 20 years experience working in the ifb movement and its true that there are those who, like yourself, are willing to associate with other denominations, but they are rare. I’m safe in saying that over 90% of all ifb’s that I’ve met over the years are so obsessed with trying to obtain sinless perfection that they live miserable lives. I’ve had several prominent ifb preachers and members tell me that they have shunned their families because they are not ifb. Unfortunately, that is the dominant ideal and attitude of the average ifb church. I do thank God for the few who sill live in reality
Hi Russel.
I am a former evolutionist, former New Ager and Former liberal Democrat. I flirted with Christianity for years. I did put the fundamentalists in a separate box and couldn’t accept their extremism into my tolerant worldview. I didn’t know there were a group called IFB’s.
Then one day I was faced with the prophecy on the Mark of the Beast. It was very specific. 666 in Greek us chi xi stigma. Stigma is to stick, to prick, to punch into. Charagma is the root of character, but also a mark of ownership. Like a brand. I looked into blood movements and found this was what they were talking about, the Mark if the Beast is going to be a covenant with Satan.
I read my kjv, ( which I had toyed with for years, it was my mother’s and her mother’s but neither understood or accepted Christ). And I learned what God wants. Most of the churches I went to were pablum. They didn’t really teach the meat. They didn’t even teach the milk. I wanted to be sold out and know the deeper things. That’s why I had been a New Ager. And yes there really are deeper things in the kjv. And the Masoretic text too. Amazing stuff. I married an IFB preacher that came to my 800 person town and that’s how i became IFB. I was 30 yrs old. And I was raised by a single mom, the result of fornication.
Other ecumenical churches are going down the New Age path. I can see it clearly because I was in it. They are joining the One World Church. And they will follow Lucifer. And they will think it’s beautiful and tolerant. Except the MK Ultra beta sex slaves, at least the deprogrammed ones. There’s a subject I encourage you to investigate. Project Paperclip and the Presidential Models. Mae Brussel had alot free on YouTube now. She used the freedom of information act to get her info and read it on the air. It will add another dimension to your understanding of New World Order.
Autocorrect, phooey, blood covenants.
Every single person. (around 200 people) in my IFB church aren’t how you are describing. TBH I think you just were not spiritually ready or on the level to understand fundamentals. Not to make that an insult. But saying a whole group of IFB are angry or making fun of them kinds shows it.
Same here, Amber! So sad that any church would be condemning to anyone. That is not the heart of our Lord. I may be IFB, but I know of no one who shuns family or friends because of their religion. We are to reach out to all in love and grace.
Amber,
We have no problem at all with Fundies who possess the traits you describe. You will pardon us for being stunned, though, because we’re not used to it. The humility, I mean.
It’s refreshing. We pray for more like you.
We know that people like you exist. We also know that you aren’t what made the biggest impression on us. And we are thankful for the ones like you that we WERE blessed to know.
Speaking for myself, I have no problem if you choose to believe the Fundy line. My problem is that I have known precious few who were willing to live peaceably with anyone who DIDN’T.
Mike
Well said.
The way this whole site you have made has turned being saved into some sort of joke really brings to mind what Jesus said here:
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Revelation 3:16
————————————————————————
Then while you mock those of us that believe the bible in our hand actually is true and is actually the original Hebrew and Greek autographs/original manuscripts preserved perfectly in English thanks to not man, but thanks to God, it brings these scriptures to mind
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Revelation 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. Matthew 22:29
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.Luke 14:26
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matthew 10:37
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. John 12:25
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. Matthew 22:29
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.Luke 14:26
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matthew 10:37
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. John 12:25
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:15-17
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death Revelation 21:8
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9
—————————————————————————-
You should really stop mocking salvation like that.
Read these two books:
Which Bible Would Jesus Use?: The Bible Version Controversy Explained and Resolved by Jack McElroy and D. William Grady (Nov 18, 2013)
The Certainty of the Words, How the King James Bible Solves the Ambiguity of the Original Languages” by Kyle Stephens (Jun 6, 2012)
What makes you think we haven’t read these books and more like them?
All of my Bible translations have these same verses in them, with the same meanings.
Jesus quoted from the LXX, the Septuagent. A translation of the Hebrew texts into Greek. Maybe that is the translation you should use, since it is “the Bible Jesus used”.
Don’t blindly start an argument with the assumption that you are the only person who has studied a subject. You also need to read from both sides of an issue to truly reason it out. There are plenty of writings from excellent scholars on the translation issue you should read. I would suggest some, but in my experience people with your beliefs are too narrow minded to expand their horizons.
What makes me think you haven’t read these books?
you could go over to biblehub and pull up Zechariah 13:6 and ask Where are the wounds?
Really,
What makes me think you haven’t read these books?
The fact that you guys obviously do not believe any bible you hold in your hand is the actual inerrant words of God preserved by God in English, if you did believe that, you would not be mocking salvation the way you guys do. You guy’s are bible agnostics, you act like atheists when it comes to preserving God’s words and hate the people that actually believe what the bible in their hand says is true and binding .
Ever since Warfield started that nonsense of claiming to only believe in the infallible inerrant original manuscripts, original Hebrew Greek autographs the original bible that does not exist all these pastors have followed waiving a bible around in the air and saying the bible says this or that and yet not actually believing the bible they are holding is without error,
It is so stupid and that you guys make it into a joke is even worse.
What I believe, is the King James Bible is the original manuscripts, the original Hebrew and Greek autographs translated and preserved perfectly in English, and that it was God that was responsible for the final English word choices in the King James translation and it is God who has used that King James Bible for 400 years even translating the KJB into 760+ languages where English( God creates languages himself anyway) gave a better translation to the receptor languages. At this point it is just Scholars textual critics filled with pride wanting to go back to the Greek, back to the Hebrew when they don’t even have “The Greek, the Hebrew, not the originals and not needed, since God gave us the KJB, I believe that on Faith just like I believe a serpent spoke and a man rose from the dead. I can understand being mocked by atheists, evolutionists yet people that are supposed to be brethren it makes no sense, except when it seems most USA Christianity is lukewarm, people claim to be fired up for Jesus yet want to do things in ways that the world likes, that is friendly with the world rather than doing it biblically. It comes down to the King James Bible believers are the only Christians that believe the bible in their hands is true.
Everybody else is more concerned with looking cool and being accepted by the world , people are going to hell, and others are Saved from Hell by the blood of Jesus and you guys act like it your salvation is a joke… is this site an atheist parody of Christians? Or what
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:15-17
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death Revelation 21:8
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Revelation 3:16
——————————————————————–
Which Bible Would Jesus Use?: The Bible Version Controversy Explained and Resolved by Jack McElroy and D. William Grady (Nov 18, 2013)
The Certainty of the Words, How the King James Bible Solves the Ambiguity of the Original Languages” by Kyle Stephens (Jun 6, 2012)
Because coming here showing off your cut-and-paste skills is going to impress us and win us over?
Nope. We’ve been there and been just as obnoxious to others as you are being to us.
We are not all agnostics. You would know that if you came here and read all the blog posts. As in from the very beginning. You would also know that there are some here who use the bisexual King Jimmy’s version of your holy book because they feel it to be the best one.
A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city. I can quote your holy book too. I’m thinking that you would say that the people here aren’t really saved so that doesn’t apply. I don’t know if that’s actually what the verse means, but hey, that’s what it says in English.
Coming on like a freight train isn’t going to make friends here nor will you make converts out of us. I doubt you’ll take the hint but don’t say you haven’t been warned.
Brian, you didn’t answer my question, you just spouted your ignorance. When you grow up enough to engage in real conversation, let me know and we can have a dialogue.
I’ll use smaller words this time in my comment. My ESV, NASB, NKJV, and NIV all have the same verses with the same meanings as your KJV. You also did not address the statement about the Scriptures Jesus actually used, you just plugged your fictional account of the Bible He uses.
What if? What if the Holy Bible was never translated into English until the 20th or 21st Century? Would this still be an issue? How would the language of today compare to the language of 1611? In 1611, the Bible was translated into the language OF THAT DAY. Many of those words are no longer in use or the usage has changed over the centuries. Remember what “gay” used to mean?? When I was a child, I was very confused by the KJV…I had no access to any other translation. I could not understand why Potiphar was so upset with Joseph because all his wife wanted was for Joseph to “lie” with her. People lied all the time, even I lied at times. I wondered what the big deal was. It was only many years later when a new translation updated some 1611 archaic words into 20th century language and I discovered Potiphar’s wife wanted to have sexual relations with Joseph, not help her tell a lie! I use an old version of the NIV for study and have a NKJV for church. I love the poetry of the KJV, but love to understand what I read in my NIV. Those who are KJV only (the Bible that God reads – I’ve seen those bumper stickers – and God does not need to read a Bible…He is the Living Word) are limiting themselves to not being able to read and understand the Bible in normal everyday language. Those who wouldn’t touch a KJV are missing out on some beautiful poetry. And being a KJV only reader will not gain you any favor or more stars in your crown when you get to heaven either. Some are already in heaven without even reading a Bible. They just accepted the free gift of salvation after hearing the Word from a missionary and believed that Christ’s death on the cross was enough to cover their sins…past, present and future. As my Mama used to say, “It’s the Blood plus nothing.”
Since the Cannon of the Bible was established at Hippo and Carthage (although the four Gospels and the Letters from Paul were widely used) around 393 i am confused by your comment, “The fact that you guys obviously do not believe any bible you hold in your hand is the actual inerrant words of God preserved by God in English, if you did believe that, you would not be mocking salvation the way you guys do. ” But then you state , “the King James Bible is the original manuscripts, the original Hebrew and Greek autographs translated and preserved perfectly in English, and that it was God that was responsible for the final English word choices in the King James translation and it is God who has used that King James Bible for 400 years even translating the KJB into 760+ languages”.
Here are the Books of the New Testament:
Please tell me where they are different? And as far as what Bible Jesus used, that would be the Septuagint. The same books of the Old Testament that Catholics use.
Protestant tradition and Roman Catholic tradition
Canonical gospels
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
Apostolic history
Acts
Pauline epistles
Romans
1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Philippians
Colossians
1 Thessalonians
2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon
General epistles
Hebrews
James
1 Peter
2 Peter
1 John
2 John
3 John
Jude
Apocalypse
Revelation
Yours in Christ, T
Tony
Can I guess? Hyles-Anderson grad?
Ah, the illustrious Bill Grady. I used to like him.
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:15-17
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death Revelation 21:8
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Revelation 3:16
Shut up your hell fire and brimstone!!! And shut your KJV onlyism up!!!!!
Yep, you can quote verses, can’t you?
What makes you think they have anything to do with our situation here at SFL? Might they have more to do with your hubris, desire for a vengeful God to show His wrath on us (which He isn’t doing!), and so on and so forth?
Maybe you are the Pharisee? You might be!
What. An. Idiot. Copy / Paste much? Try having an original thought sometime.
Amen and amen
Why do you guys make Salvation out to be a joke?
Why do the people who do not believe the bible in their hands is true without error (bible agnostics)turn out to be the same people trying to be friends with the world and “do the Christianity thing ” in a way that appeals to the flesh of unbelievers?
Why is it that only King James Bible believers take the below two verses seriously while bible agnostics and atheists point fingers and laugh and make mocking websites against bible believers?
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:15-17
See what you people brand as King James Onlyism, I refer to as Holy Bible Onlyism
What is referred to as the King James Bible was simply The Holy Bible in english before all these modern english “versions” that print “Holy Bible” on their covers so that forces us to refer to the King James Bible instead of saying Holy Bible.
I believe the King James Bible is the infallible inerrant original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts, the original autographs translated into and perfectly preserved in english, the language God chose to use the last 400 years and in the last days.
If you claim that the King James Bible is not the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts translated into and preserved in english by God using men in the process, then tell me which single english language bible is so get a copy in my hands to read and believe. If you instead say to refer to “the Hebrew or “the Greek” which Hebrew and which Greek as you and I both know nobody has the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts all they have is copies of copies of copies that disagree with each other. So either we have a bible that God preserved the words of his original manusripts in or we don’t and if we don’t, then God didn’t preserve them and that would call God a liar and we might all just go join http://www.atheists.org/
You said before that all the verses I posted say and mean the same thing in your various english bible “versions” yet that is very easy to see is untrue
Who was manifest in the flesh?
English Standard Version
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
New American Standard Bible
By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.
King James Bible
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory
The modern english bible “versions” are like rat poison which is 97-99% good food with the poison mixed in it, if you think those mean the same thing go try to explain that to a Jehovah Witness.
Parallel Verses Zechariah 13:6
King James Bible
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends
or
Zechariah 13:6The Message (MSG)
And if someone says, ‘And so where did you get that black eye?’ they’ll say, ‘I ran into a door at a friend’s house.’
This is a prophecy verse of Jesus, NIV thinks Jesus will be naked, The NLV and ESV and HCSV think Jesus will be half naked and who knows what NASV is talking about? Only the King James Bible has the verse and prophecy correct.
New International Version
If someone asks, ‘What are these wounds on your body?’ they will answer, ‘The wounds I was given at the house of my friends.’
New Living Translation
And if someone asks, ‘Then what about those wounds on your chest?’ he will say, ‘I was wounded at my friends’ house!’
English Standard Version
And if one asks him, ‘What are these wounds on your back?’ he will say, ‘The wounds I received in the house of my friends.’
New American Standard Bible
“And one will say to him, ‘What are these wounds between your arms?’ Then he will say, ‘Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.’
King James Bible
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
If someone asks him: What are these wounds on your chest?–then he will answer: I received the wounds in the house of my friends.
This could go on and on how can you guys not see it, ? Read these books
Which Bible Would Jesus Use?: The Bible Version Controversy Explained and Resolved by Jack McElroy and D. William Grady (Nov 18, 2013)
The Certainty of the Words, How the King James Bible Solves the Ambiguity of the Original Languages” by Kyle Stephens (Jun 6, 2012)
I’m not King James Bible Only, I’m Holy Bible Only can’t afford to put my faith in a Jesus other than the Jesus in the Holy Bible, the King James Bible
Brian, you need to start reading complete passages and not individual verses. You also would do well to understand the the verse and chapter divisions, while helpful, are not inspired. They were added to assist in finding particular passages.
When you read complete passages, you would see the error of you thinking and begin to understand what God is saying not what some people want him to say to match their particular view. The verses you insist leave out God do not. The translators, among other reasons, entered the names of God into the text so that people who only read individual verses would still understand.
Your KJV idolatry should frighten you. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost should be your focus, not a particular translation.
By the way, the current King James Version is from 1769, which is only 245 years old, not 400.
http://biblewithoutverses.com/ I got one of those printed up last year
Truth is,
There can be only one Holy Bible in each language, in English that Holy Bible is the King James Bible.
Without that Holy Bible Neither me nor you would know who the father the Word nor the Holy Ghost was or is
So, which one of these is the Holy Bible?
◄ 1 John 5:7 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
For there are three that testify:
New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses–
English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:
New American Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:
King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:
International Standard Version
For there are three witnesses —
If God didn’t want us to have the chapter and verse numbers in the Holy Bible in English, he could have led the translators to leave them out
So you mentioned The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost at the same time knocking the Holy bible that tells us how they are one.
I’m a young earth creationist or call it biblical creationist and yet the old earth creationists act like atheists when it comes to creation, not believing Ex 20:11 yet if Ex 20:11 wasn’t true then why believe anything after it the gospel makes no sense in a billiob years million years death before sin, if sin is supposed to be the cause of death, well, in the same way people who claim that the King James Bible is not the Holy Bible in English preserved by God and yet they don’t tell you which one is the Holy Bible in English instead and act as if there is none and say go look at Hebrew and Greek yet it is known that the original autographs/manuscripts are long gone with just copies that disagree with each other so there is no authoritative “the Greek or the Hebrew to look at .
That leads to either God did not bother to preserve his words perfectly for us which would make him a liar or he did preserve the words of those original Hebrew and Greek autographs/manuscripts in a bible we can hold in our hands, it seems that that bible would be the Holy Bible and stick out among counterfeits . Just like how the old earth creationists act like atheists when it comes to creation, the people who bash the King James Bible act like atheists when it comes to the preservation of God’s words from the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts.
Just ask the question http://whichbiblewouldjesususe.com/
just going on
http://biblehub.com/1_john/5-7.htm you get the answer real quick
Show me where anyone here has bashed the King James translation.
Not used another, that isn’t the same. Show me somewhere on this site the KJV has been bashed.
My issue is not with the KJV. I teach, preach, and believe the kjv. My issue is with ifb members and preachers trying to play God. I have a folder in my email account filled with over 200 rebukes from ifb members because I have facial hair, wear wire rim glasses, eat at McDonald’s, wear cowboy boots, wear short sleeve dress shirts, wear colored dress shirts, have a secular job, don’t have bumper stickers plastered all over my truck, and because I chose to fly instead of driving to meetings. That’s only a few “rebukes” from the ifb preachers and members. I even had an ifb pastor tell me that he didn’t care if anybody ever gets saved at his church again, just as long as everybody knows that his church has high standards. This is not based off of one or two churches, but many of them. You want to see a joke? Just look at the average ifb church as they keep their noses in the air with the same 12 meh members they’ve had for years and still doing nothing and having no impact for the cause of Christ. The ifb denomination is the joke
I went to one of your links and it is by a guy from Chick Publications. Chick! Hilarious – slanted scholarship. Sorry but the KJV manuscripts are not as old as the manuscripts used for the more recent English translations. You are a good example of fundy arguments for the KJV and I hope that you love the Lord with the same passion (or more) that you love the KJV. They are not one and the same.
You said:
:Your KJV idolatry should frighten you. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost should be your focus, not a particular translation.:
Yet UncleWilver, only the one paticular translation tells you who they are
◄ 1 John 5:7 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
For there are three that testify:
New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses–
English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:
New American Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:
King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:
International Standard Version
For there are three witnesses —
NET Bible
For there are three that testify,
Your denial of the Holy Bible (King James Bible in English) should frighten you when you realize you would not even know who The Father, Word, and Holy Ghost are if you had only niv nlt esv nasv and it is no wonder that Muslims will point to an NIV when arguing about the trinity
I think we need to get this “KJV the Perfect” thing sorted. The KJV is not the original Greek and Hebrew converted to English bible. I have a copy of the Geneva Bible, which was produced in 1599. It is definitely the correct Bible.
And Brian, seriously, you appeal to the Jehovah’s Witnesses to give testimony of which Bible is the right one? Seriously?
In fact, the Geneva Bible has “u”s instead of “v”‘s and “f”‘s instead of “s”‘s, just as the original Greek and Hebrew did – that’s how spiritual it is.
Hermit, what is this ” the original Greek” you speak of it doesn’t exist
You’re wrong!!!!!
Thanks for the link, BRIAN! I’m only sorry it took over three years for me to check it out.
http://www.atheist.org
Well stated Brian. Now take your remaining pearls and cast them before those who have ears to hear…
Brian,
After many years of having supposed men of god shoving scripture, legalism, and outright lies down my throat, I decided to ask God himself just what was Truth and what was un-truth. You see I serve a very, very powerful God that has no boundaries, no weaknesses, no dependencies on mere mortal man. My God can speak directly to me without the help of a mere mortal man. My God can hear me without an earthly representative to go to Him on my behalf. My God does not depend on a book that has had so many men’s fingerprints on it that nobody can ever know for sure what is the true translation. My God does not dwell in a building built by human hands, but inside of me as I am the temple of God. He has sent His Spirit upon me to lead and direct me throughout this cruel and vile world that Satan has corrupted. You can quote all the out of context scripture you want, and all the supposed m-o-g’s that you feel the need too, but that does in know way give you the truth. My friend no man either living or dead that has walked the face of this earth has had the Truth, they have only had it revealed to them by God in His time. You will say, that God preserved the scriptures for the English speaking people with the good ole KJB, you will quote all kinds of scripture and many, many men, but where does God promise this? God has been so watered down to the point that even those who profess His name, have absolutely no clue who He even really is, or even the extent of His incomprehensible power. I don’t spend a lot of time here, and have never commented except after my experience with a church in my area that had a loud, obnoxious, arrogant, and general know-it-all fake doctor stand and scream for four straight days about absolutely nothing of any comprehension other that to continue to further his agenda and to fleece the flock for as much money as he possibly could and then get out of town to the next such meeting. I worked for one of the largest IFB churches in the area and have seen the most intimate inner workings of these churches and the cruel things that go on behind closed doors. I have a perspective on the coming and goings of these supposed housed of god that most will never have the opportunity to see. And it is for the best in almost every case. I have had the most vile things said about me by people such as yourself who claim to have the truth because you have a book that you can twist and contort to your liking and to make yourself feel better about yourself and where you are in life. I have found that people like this are the most untrusting, backstabbing, ruthless, and down right underhanded beings on the face of this earth, and they continually twist the truth and quote scripture to justify their actions and agenda’s. Answer me these few questions: Why do you make God so complicated, when His plan was so simple? Why to you minimize His abilities, when I think we can agree that His power is limitless. Why is it that he had to send His Son to die for us, if there are so many men of god on this earth that can get the job done and have all the answers? I know exactly what you will say, and that is just what Satan will have you to believe as well as others who are trapped in not only IFB churches, but in all churches. I will not condemn anyone who wants to attend a church and anyone who says otherwise does not know me or what I have come form, but for me and my family I will not grace these dens of Satan, led by his false prophets and pharisees. I have stood and watched men who thought they could do it better, or thought they had a truth that the previous guy didn’t have, or they were so much more humble than that other guy and they really feel that they would be much more successful. Well news flash my friend, no one can take the place of Christ. They never have and never will. So sorry for such the long rant, but I’ve had more than enough of the talking heads, so to speak, who think that they or their church can do it better, and they hold a truth that the others don’t. I choose to serve the one true God who truly loves me as a child, and has no limit to His power. I have seen it, and I have seen true evil, and there is no man on earth who can convince me of anything contradictory to what God has told me and shown me. Just ask God for the truth and take off the rose colored glasses. Just be ready to have your whole world rocked.
The Holy Bible is not just some random book the bible is authenticated as coming from the true living God by fulfilled prophecies contained within, so you see
fulfilled prophecies are the great proof that the Bible, ( in English, the King James Bible ) is
correct and accurate, and fulfilled prophecies are verifiable in modern history and are unique to the
bible not the q’uran nor any other “holy book” has fulfilled prophecies that you can go verify right now
today.
Look to fulfilled prophecies, not ancient fulfilled prophecies but prophecies fulfilled now between 1948
and 2008 and still being fulfilled. The God of the bible said that he would predict the future and we
would know he is who he claims to be by his predictions coming true. Since you live now in 2014 look
to prophecies fulfilled in the last 66 years
get a bible then get the book Ancient Prophecies Revealed by Ken Johnson go to page 89 the last 3
chapters of the book, read the prophecies verify they are in the bible written way before we were alive
then verify in current mainstream news sources that they came true and more still are coming true.
Not vague stuff and not self fulfilling stuff , straight up predictions of future events that came
true just as God predicted.
If the Holy Bible did not have any fulfilled prophecies there would be no reason to believe it was from God instead of man and if you have gone and rejected the Holy Bible in order to listen to a spirit in your head, how will you explain away fulfilled prophecies, or are you one of those Christians who did not know that fulfilled prophecies are the great proof of the Holy Bible? God gave us the prophecies so that we would know he is who he claims so if you have some spirit telling you not to listen to the Holy Bible, that spirit is not of God, because the prophecies are verifiable , the bible has been authenticated already. If you did not know that, now you do.
So are saying I’m possessed by the devil or one of his “spirits” because I gave a testimony that God can speak to me through His Spirit? Or is it because I don’t worship the King James Bible like you do. At no time have I rejected the Bible as being completely false. You have made that assumption. You are on the war path to prove that you are right and everyone else is wrong and you will use any argument possible to prove your point. I guess I’m just a bitter person much like everyone else who comments here is labeled as because we choose to seek God’s wisdom and not man’s knowledge.
God gave us truth written in the Holy Bible, that in English is the King James Bible yet since you don’t like that truth you are talking to a spirit that has a different non sin convicting message.. think about it.
If the sprit told you not to listen to the bible then what is your authority of authenticating the spirit is from God or from god the other one? The Holy Bible has already been authenticated by fulfilled prophecies, how do you authenticate a spirit that tells you not to listen to the Holy Bible?
What does your spirit say about this scripture?
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 2 Timothy 3:12
How about these?
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1 John 2:15
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever 1 John 2:16-17
Test the spirit
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:2-3
Really man you don’t sound like you are talking to God, it sounds like you are talking to Rick Warren and Joel Osteen instead
No Bible prophesy has been fulfilled between 1948 and now.
None. Nada. Zip.
Nothing has to happen before Christ returns.
AND, if you were to read every book dealing with prophesy in the present day and their interpretation of events and Scripture, virtually all of them have been dead wrong about the implications of events. None of them have been right if and when they predict the coming of the Lord, or events concerning Israel and the Middle East.
Heh, but they keep writing ’em. Their reputation is built on hype and minimization of the reality of their failure.
Why, last I looked, the Van Impe’s still had a TV program on some minor cable outlet, still talking about prophesy, doom and gloom and still wrong. Always wrong.
“Anonymous Brave Sole”
Are you saying that you are listening to a “spirit” and that spirit is telling you to question God’s words?
sounds familiar, seems I read a similar account in the Holy Bible you are rejecting, is your name Steve by any chance because the first woman Eve, made the same mistake you are making
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Genesis 3:1
You must not forget that satan can perform signs and wonders that is how the antichrist will deceive many.
It seems though you are just following your own emotions as the authority and that is dangerous, that’s why God gave us the Holy Bible, it is outside of us, objective truth to test all things with.
So you think your a funny guy. No, my name is not Steve and I was not in the garden of eden. Let me see if I can make this as clear as possible for you: I hear the voice of God spoken through his Spirit that was given to my by Him to guide and direct me throughout my existence on this earth after I believe that His Son Christ died for my sins and freed me from the bondage of this world and those that dwell in said world. I am led by God’s Holy Spirit and not some random “spirit” as you have so eluded to. Furthermore, as I stated above I asked God for the truth, and not some random “spirit.” I could just like you quote all kinds of scripture to prove my point, but I would be no better than you or any other man that will stand and try to justify their stance by such means. My emotions have nothing to do with what I feel, and I never said I rejected God’s Word. I reject the fact that men worship a book translated in the 1600’s, with certain restrictions on how some phrases and words were to be translated as to justify the hierarchy they had created over a thousand years since Christ walked the earth. I reject the establishment of a local institutional church and the men who place themselves in the place of Christ, and usurp His power and use it to their lord over God’s people. If you have to argue and twist scripture to prove that the way it has “always been” is the truth, then it probably is not true. God did not make it that complicated. I have heard every argument to justify the stance that men take today, but I’m sorry I have seen the light and I know that God has shown me Truth. My friend if satan can manipulate what we consider worldly, then what can he not place false ministers in the place we call the house of God. Once again, I challenge you to ask God for the Truth.
God gave us truth in the Holy Bible, yet since you don’t like that truth you are talking to a spirit that has a different non sin convicting message..
What does your spirit say about this scripture?
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 2 Timothy 3:12
How about these?
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1 John 2:15
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever 1 John 2:16-17
Really man you don’t sound like you are talking to God, it sounds like you are talking to Rick Warren and Joel Osteen instead
You don’t have a clue do you?
Brave Sole,
Just interjecting a question without trying to get in this fight: What about the fact that the current modern Bible says that God has placed his word above his own name. (Psalm 138:2- yes, copy and paste 🙂 I have always viewed that as God pointing to his word, not to be worshiped but, to be studied as the mind of God for us today. Just curious – no animosity. The argument seems akin to those who say they do not need church, yet the Bible says we should “forsake not the assembling of ourselves together”… Best
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God Romans 3:23
all of us
Where are we headed if left alone? :
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8
How do we get saved from that?
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9
Why will we be saved, who took our punishment?:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life .John 3:16
What did Jesus accomplish on the cross?
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.1 John 2:2
Remember in order to be saved you don’t have to be a hulu hoop champ you need to do this sincerely:
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9
Are you condemned?:
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18
Don’t forget:
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28
If the “spirit you are listening to is telling you to ignore the scriptures then the spirit is not of God
Do you accept or deny the below scriptures are objective authoritative truth or do you hold the voice in your head above those scriptures?
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God Romans 3:23
all of us
Where are we headed if left alone? :
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8
How do we get saved from lake which burneth with fire and brimstone?
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9
Why will we be saved, who took our punishment?:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life .John 3:16
What did Jesus accomplish on the cross?
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.1 John 2:2
How do we get saved (a reminder)
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9
Who is not condemned and who is condemned?
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18
Don’t forget,
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28
You obviously do not have the ability to comprehend anything that I have written. You have a one track mind, much like those that I have experienced in my past. I can quote just as much scripture as the next, but so could the pharisees and we all see how justified they were. A relationship with God is not dependent on anything but a decision to either accept or reject the Truth set before us. I have accepted the Truth and now have a relationship with my God that I could never understand before I let loose of the bonds of religion and man made rules. You have twisted and contorted what I have said and have at no point understood anything I have shared.
No man, the Pharisees put their own changing opinions above scripture, that’s what you are doing, I’m telling you to have the scripture as the authority and that is opposite of the Pharisees
Man Was it these scriptures that turned you away from the Holy Bible?
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 2 Timothy 3:12
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1 John 2:15
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever 1 John 2:16-17
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:2-3
You can take this however you want, but I don’t have anymore time to waste on you. You can disagree with me all you want, and I am completely fine with that. You have completely missed the entire point of my comments and you have insinuated and assumed many things about me that are not true.
I did not tell you to go to any “church” building or service nor to listen to any pastor, I told you listen to the Holy Bible as your authority and that in English the Holy Bible is the King James Bible.
Your original comment sounded as if you threw the Holy Bible away as a result of talking to a spirit and I’m saying that no spirit that is of God is going to tell you to ignore the Holy Bible.
Does that spirit tell you to ignore these scriptures below or is it your own emotions telling you that since is easier on the flesh?
Man Was it these scriptures that turned you away from the Holy Bible?
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 2 Timothy 3:12
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1 John 2:15
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever 1 John 2:16-17
Test that spirit
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:2-3
What truth are you referring to being set before you to accept if you are rejecting the infallibility of the only book that even tells you the truth you are supposed to be accepting?
It makes no sense man.
God revealed his truth to us in writing authenticated by fulfilled prophecies and the mind of Christ is contained in the words of scripture and they are preserved perfectly in the Holy Bible (King James Bible in English)
The only reason any man would reject that is they don’t like what it says that’s how you get Qurans and books of Mormon and watchtower societies jw
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 2 Timothy 3:12
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1 John 2:15
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever 1 John 2:16-17
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:2-3
I don’t worship a book, I worship the God that wrote it and preserved it and told us to keep his words
Who is the spirit that you are speaking to?
How do you know he is who he claims to be?
Against what authority do you test any claims the spirit tells you?
Did that spirit tell you that the King James Bible is not the Holy Bible in the English language?
If so, did that spirit tell you which of the 200+ bible “versions” in English are the real Holy Bible in English, since only one can be the Holy Bible for each language?
Does that spirit support seeker sensitive evangelism or preaching the Gospel?
What does that spirit say about this verse?
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 2 Timothy 3:12
See , after you rejected the Holy Bible then said ” I have a relationship with “my God”
that’ the issue, the whole “my God” part of your statement is what people always say when rejecting stuff like repentance and hell etc they will say well “my God” would not send people to hell blah “my God” is this or that it just always seems the God they are referring to as “my God” is not The true living God of scripture and that is what your situation sounds like , a “God” that you call “my God” that only exists in your own head. It’s idolatry, don’t like the truth so you made up your own
Is it hard for children to enter the kingdom of God or is it hard for them that trust in riches to enter the kingdom of God?
All of those “bibles” have poison mixed in that verse except for the Holy Bible, the one set apart
◄ Mark 10:24 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
New Living Translation
This amazed them. But Jesus said again, “Dear children, it is very hard to enter the Kingdom of God.
English Standard Version
And the disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how difficult it is to enter the kingdom of God!
New American Standard Bible
The disciples were amazed at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
King James Bible
And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
Do you see it yet?
http://whichbiblewouldjesususe.com/
Shut. Up. Get your own blog instead of hijacking others. Unless you don’t know how….
For what it’s worth, the most fearful people I have ever known in my life are members in good standing at the local us-four-no-more independent fundamental KJVO baptist church. According to Rev 21:8, they are all going to hell. These people are scared silly that God isn’t really capable of holding them secure in His hands, and that they must make God continue to love them by keeping an endless list of man-made rules. Part of their silliness is insisting on the KJV as the ONLY valid English translation. Even worse, I know a man here in Germany who insists that Germans don’t have the full Bible, because they aren’t reading the KJV when they read their German Bible. This is outright foolishness! Stupidity! Heresy.
We have heard all the arguments made by the KJVO kooks. The arguments might be internally consistent (MAYBE), but that is immaterial, if the premises are a lie from the pit of hell (which they are).
Very few of us reject the Bible. I like to use several translations in order to gain a full understanding of a passage. See, living in Germany and traveling around a decent portion of the world, I have learned that there is NO single “perfect” translation from one language to another. There are multiple ways to communicate a thought, each equally accurate, and each helping to increase the understanding of the hearer. And let us forsake this foolishness that the KJV is the only perfect translation. It has been revised over 6000 times. The most famous of these revisions is the “Wicked Bible” of 1631, in which the printers omitted “not” from Exodus 20:14. Errors like that creep into every printing, every translation. They are hunted down and rooted out, but let’s not pretend that they never happen, and that the translators of the KJV got everything exactly right, even for the readers of THEIR day, much less for the readers of today.
Let us, instead, worship the God of the Bible, rather than a translation of the Bible. Let us also take comfort that all the “disagreements” between various translations would fit on one 8.5″ x 11″ sheet of paper, that none of these “disagreements” obviate even ONE doctrine, and that, therefore, we can have full confidence in each of AT LEAST the KJV, NKJV, NIV, ESV, and NASV, and that other translations (more properly called “paraphrases”) can aid our understanding as well.
Otherwise, we are forced to declare that the Bible didn’t exist until 1611. And that would be absurd. Almost as absurd as the KJVO position.
I don’t need the German Holy Bible, I need the English Holy Bible
God gave us a whole book of scripture not just John 3:16 or not just a paragraph or two. getting Saved is not the end that is the beginning being born again, after that we need the Holy Bible to know how to live the born again life
When you have an attitude of the bible doesn’t matter it can’t say or mean anything that’s where you get a Rick warren or a Joel Osteen that’s where you get people that ignore scripture like this:
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 2 Timothy 3:12
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:15-17
That guy you mentioned in Germany– is his name Tom Castellaw?
You keep saying that there can be only one Bible in each language.
You don’t speak any language but English, do you?
Because if you knew other languages, you wouldn’t say such ridiculous things.
MANY sentences in every language can be accurately translated in multiple ways. In fact, you could present me with just about any sentence in English, and I could give it back to you in multiple English versions that would each communicate precisely what you said to me in the first place.
If you cannot comprehend such a simple and obviously true statement, then I have a suggestion for you:
Please stop wasting everybody’s time.
Words can be translated different ways, based on the context so you need to know which English translation is the authoritative translation that has the correct words that God wanted the translation to be.
Yes there can be only Holy Bible in each language and in the English language (I read English_) I don’t need the Spanish Holy Bible I need the English Holy Bible and in 200+ English “versions” that print “holy bible” on the cover I need the one that is the real Holy Bible in English so which one is it if not the King James Bible
Just ask the question http://whichbiblewouldjesususe.com/
just going go to
http://biblehub.com/1_john/5-7.htm
you get the answer real quick
Without that Holy Bible Neither me nor you would know who the father the Word nor the Holy Ghost was or is
So, which one of these is the Holy Bible?
◄ 1 John 5:7 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
For there are three that testify:
New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses–
English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:
New American Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:
King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:
International Standard Version
For there are three witnesses —
————————————————————————–
If you insist that the King James Bible is not the Holy Bible in English and yet you can’t tell me which one of the 200+ other English “versions” are the Holy Bible and you are saying the Holy Bible doesn’t exist, then that makes God a liar and if God is a liar then we should all go join atheist.org.
If young earth creationism isn’t true and the universe is billions of years old and there was millions of years of death on earth before eden, before sin, then sin didn’t cause death and if sin didn’t cause death then the Gospel makes no sense.
If God promised to preserve his words and yet after the original manuscripts deteriorated God didn’t bother to preserve the words then he lied, either God told the truth and we have his words preserved perfectly or we don’t have them. If you say we don’t have them and God lied then we might as well all go join atheist.org
Brian, you are repeating yourself.
Brian, you are repeating yourself
Brian,
What you’re saying makes perfectly good sense to those who have the Holy Ghost and it makes no sense to those who are either grieving the Holy Ghost or have no possession of the Holy Ghost…
I did not say there can be only one “bible” in each language. I said there can be only one HOLY BIBLE in each language. There are 200+ bibles in English and many if not most will print “holy bible” on their cover yet, they don’t agree with each other and contradict each other so they cannot all be “The Holy Bible” in English. How many German bibles are there? Which one of them is the “Holy Bible” in German
How many Spanish bibles are there?
Which one of them is the “Holy Bible” in Spanish?
I don’t read German or Spanish, I read English, and not so great at that yet out of the 200+ bibles in English, the “Holy Bible” in English is the King James Bible, If you claim that it isn’t then tell me which one is the Holy Bible in English so I can get one. If you deny the King James Bible is the Holy Bible in English yet can’t tell me which other one is the Holy Bible in English, then why shall I believe you? If Jesus came and preached at some English church gathering Which Bible would Jesus use? He would speak English to English people or we would hear him in English just like the guys from Acts 2
http://whichbiblewouldjesususe.com/
I know better than to feed trolls, but insomnia gives time for a lot of things I prefer not to do.
****normally prefer
there can be only Holy Bible in each language and in the English language (I read English_) I don’t need the Spanish Holy Bible I need the English Holy Bible and in 200+ English “versions” that print “holy bible” on the cover I need the one that is the real Holy Bible in English so which one is it if not the King James Bible
Just ask the question http://whichbiblewouldjesususe.com/
just going go to
http://biblehub.com/1_john/5-7.htm
you get the answer real quick
Without that Holy Bible Neither me nor you would know who the father the Word nor the Holy Ghost was or is
So, which one of these is the Holy Bible?
◄ 1 John 5:7 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
For there are three that testify:
New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses–
English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:
New American Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:
King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:
International Standard Version
For there are three witnesses —
————————————————————————–
If you insist that the King James Bible is not the Holy Bible in English and yet you can’t tell me which one of the 200+ other English “versions” are the Holy Bible and you are saying the Holy Bible doesn’t exist, then that makes God a liar and if God is a liar then we should all go join atheist.org.
If young earth creationism isn’t true and the universe is billions of years old and there was millions of years of death on earth before eden, before sin, then sin didn’t cause death and if sin didn’t cause death then the Gospel makes no sense.
If God promised to preserve his words and yet after the original manuscripts deteriorated God didn’t bother to preserve the words then he lied, either God told the truth and we have his words preserved perfectly or we don’t have them. If you say we don’t have them and God lied then we might as well all go join atheist.org
there can be only Holy Bible in each language and in the English language (I read English_) I don’t need the Spanish Holy Bible I need the English Holy Bible and in 200+ English “versions” that print “holy bible” on the cover I need the one that is the real Holy Bible in English so which one is it if not the King James Bible
Just ask the question http://whichbiblewouldjesususe.com/
just going go to
http://biblehub.com/1_john/5-7.htm
you get the answer real quick
Without that Holy Bible Neither me nor you would know who the father the Word nor the Holy Ghost was or is
So, which one of these is the Holy Bible?
◄ 1 John 5:7 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
For there are three that testify:
New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses–
English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:
New American Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:
King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:
International Standard Version
For there are three witnesses —
————————————————————————–
If you insist that the King James Bible is not the Holy Bible in English and yet you can’t tell me which one of the 200+ other English “versions” are the Holy Bible and you are saying the Holy Bible doesn’t exist, then that makes God a liar and if God is a liar then we should all go join atheist.org.
If young earth creationism isn’t true and the universe is billions of years old and there was millions of years of death on earth before eden, before sin, then sin didn’t cause death and if sin didn’t cause death then the Gospel makes no sense.
If God promised to preserve his words and yet after the original manuscripts deteriorated God didn’t bother to preserve the words then he lied, either God told the truth and we have his words preserved perfectly or we don’t have them. If you say we don’t have them and God lied then we might as well all go join atheist.org
my parting thought:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xsOf0TZPPWY
So your answer to the question of which of the 200+ “versions” of the bible in English that have “holy bible” printed on the cover is actually the real HOLY BIBLE in English is to post a youtube video of an old dead comedian.
If the King James Bible is not the Holy Bible in English, which one is?
If you don’t know, just say you don’t know yet if you can’t tell me which English bible is the Holy Bible instead of the King James Bible, then you can’t tell me it’s not The King James Bible.
If Jesus came to preach at an English church gathering
Which Bible would Jesus use?
http://whichbiblewouldjesususe.com/
How about all of them produced by well-meaning Christians?
I stand with the King James translators, who stated in their preface titled “Translators to the Reader” that “Nay, we affirm and avow that the meanest translation of the Bible in English is the word of God.” .
If you bother to read the notes the translators wrote, which for some reason are no longer placed into the front of newer editions, you will find that they knew their work would be improved on, and that they believed no single translation is perfect. That is why they placed notes in the margins in some places. They weren’t absolutely certain of the proper word, and wanted to give the reader the other viable option.
Also, if the translators work was perfectly done, why have there been four major and many minor revisions?
You would do well to study the history of the Scripture translation from original autographs through the manuscripts up to current versions. From a true historical perspective, not a biblio-idolatrous one.
The translators to readers preface is in the 1611 reprint I have and is in the 2014 Holy Bible I bought from Local Church Bible publishers. http://localchurchbiblepublishers.com/
I don’t believe that the KJB translators knew that they were translating the perfect Holy Bible in English, I don’t believe that Paul knew at the time that we would be reading letters he wrote to Timothy 2000 years later either, I don’t believe that God let them be aware because it would puff men up with pride.
I don’t look at spelling changes and printing press errors as errors with the text, I believe God allows those kinds of issues so that no one is compelled, you still have to have faith, he gives enough evidence for those who’s free will is to believe while leaving options open for people to not have faith and deny it
Textual critics approach scripture preservation as if they are atheists and it was totally up to man to preserve the words yet I have faith that God himself preserved his words, he didn’t preserve old paper first drafts, he preserved the words, he used men in the process yet God made sure we have his words today.
People want evidence for every single thing yet then you won’t have need of any faith, there is enough evidence to believe, yet not so much to force anybody to believe.
With atheists, God could have put a flaming sword up in the sky where everytime anybody looked up they saw a flaming sword saying believe or else, that would compel people, there would be no atheists yet also no free will to reject either.
I believe that God preserved his words from the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts, that don’t exist the original autographs translated into English the language God created to share the Gospel in the last days preserved in the King James Bible. I don’t believe the King James translators were made aware of that yet the unique readings of the King James Bible that people bash, I believe match up with the original manuscripts that neither Bart Ehrman or Daniel Wallace have ever seen.
I believe that on faith just like I believe a serpent talked a jackass talked a man rose from the dead on faith.
If you are saying that we can’t even have faith that the bible in our hand is the Holy Bible that God has used the same brand KJB for 400 years, if we can’t have faith in that then how in the world are we expected to have faith that the man written about in that Holy Bible actually rose from the dead like it is written.
http://whichbiblewouldjesususe.com/
Don’t trust the bible in your hand but trust in Jesus? Next step after that is http://www.atheist.org
If you were dying of thirst and I set out 200 bottles of water and told you that one of them is pure and the other 199 have varying amounts of poison in them, the logical question to ask would be which bottle of water is the one without the poison in it.
The answer would either be this one is the one without the poison or I don’t know which one is the pure one or no don’t they all have poison in them.
So which bible in English is the bible without poison in it?
You said I’m worshipping a book yet without the right book none of us know who the right God to worship is and how we are to worship him?
You are not learning the Gospel of Jesus by reading Josephus or tacitus whoever, you need the Holy Bible pure without poison, once you get the Gospel and become born again you need the right bible to show you how to live.
When you depart the Holy Bible you start treating the Gospel as if it is a joke and when someone asks you which bible is the Holy Bible you post youtube videos of old dead comedians calling people idiots.
If you don’t know which bible is the true Holy Bible in English just say so yet either we have a Holy Bible that we can hold in our hands and base our faith on the words within or we might as well be agnostics or atheist.org members
The only Christians that actually believe the bible in their hands is true are King James Bible believers, everybody else claims some original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts that don’t exist are the bible they believe, which isn’t it convenient to profess to believe that the only inerrant infallible bible that you base your faith in , does not even exist and you have never even read it?
Is it hard for children to enter the kingdom of God or is it hard for them that trust in riches to enter the kingdom of God?
All of those “bibles” have poison mixed in that verse except for the Holy Bible, the one set apart
◄ Mark 10:24 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
New Living Translation
This amazed them. But Jesus said again, “Dear children, it is very hard to enter the Kingdom of God.
English Standard Version
And the disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how difficult it is to enter the kingdom of God!
New American Standard Bible
The disciples were amazed at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
King James Bible
And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
Brian,
You are a fool and an idiot. All you do is parrot the same garbage over and over again. You put words in my mouth that I never said, and that I don’t believe.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Which bible is the Holy Bible in English?
Which bible is the Holy Bible in German?
Which is the Holy Bible in Spanish?
You can have 200 or 500 different bible “versions” and they might all even have “Holy Bible” written on the cover yet they can’t all be the Holy Bible , I read English so I need to know which bible of the 200+ English versions is the HOLY BIBLE in English
If you claim it is not the King James Bible
Tell me which one it is so I can get one in my hands to read
If Jesus cam and preached to an English church, which bible would be the Holy Bible he would use?
http://whichbiblewouldjesususe.com/
Hey genius. Jesus already came and He didn’t need a KJV Bible then to preach the Gospel, what makes you think He would need one now?
Only one of these two websites leads to the truth , Which one is it?
http://whichbiblewouldjesususe.com/
Or
http://www.atheist.org
One of those sites is right, one is wrong, which is it?
Neither. One worships self, one worships a book.
Neither has a clue as to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Brian, you are repeating yourself.
Brian, you are repeating yourself
Brian is an idol worshipper.
…and a TROLL.
“Ignore” button activated.
What book did you read that being an idol worshipper is wrong?
Did you read that in The Holy Bible ?
If yes, please tell me which bible is The Holy Bible that you read it in so I can get a copy to read and believe too?
http://whichbiblewouldjesususe.com/
Wow! Bibliolatry is strong in this one.
He serves such a puny god as well. One that only dwells in the King James translation it would seem. Of course it is obvious to even the most casual observer reading through this thread that the puny god’s disciple worships the King James Translation above the one it is written about. In fact, if one didn’t know better it would appear that this idolator has made the KJV the fourth member of his god’s trinity.
Just how small is your god Brian because you are not preaching the Lord God Jehovah, Sovereign Creator God of all creation. You have yet to point anyone to Jesus Christ and the Gospel. You have rode in here with your favorite proof texts and parroted a butt load of Riplinger/Gipp/Ruckman false arguments crap.
Your idolatry speaks louder than all your voluminous ranting ever could. You have my pity and I pray that one day you will break free of your self imposed prison of lies and distortions regarding the KJVO position. *sigh* but only God can open your eyes to that… may he have mercy on you and open your blinded eyes.
/troll nourisment
“…but only God can open your eyes to that… may he have mercy on you and open your blinded eyes. ”
^THIS^
May I say this. I have seen much from this site blasting “fundies”. As you say we are so incapable of where are the posts about the God of Heaven. Should we not use every opportunity, every outlet to preach the Gospel Jesus himself came to preach. Instead of spending so much time cutting down the brethren or non-brethren-whatever you think they may be….build up Christ.
That being said, I am an Old-Time, Independent, Fundamental, King James Only, Big-B Baptist.
This criticism that we are all hateful, all WRONG! should be stopped. Granted, I realize that there are some who have not rightly divided the Word. And others who have may have had the wrong spirit. But I know far more, thousands even of fundamentalists who love God and sinners far more than their opinions.
In the arguments of Bible versions:
Is it that hard to believe that Satan, the Prince of Darkness, the Father of Lies, the Author of Confusion would not want to do just that-confuse people? If people are going to believe the Bible, why not make it difficult to find the True Word of God? I have studied the history of The King James Bible, and the history of the modern versions, it is shocking. But God’s timing as always was perfect. (1611 KJV was printed. 1620 pilgrims come to the new world) Besides me using God’s Word to prove it (He doesn’t need me to anyway) there are some astounding historical facts to back up the King James.
The argument of fundamentalists holding to “standards” more than Bible doctrine:
This is one I was not shocked to see. Many do not agree with the stand the IFB takes. But God’s Word does say, “Be not conformed to this world”. There is no way around that verse. You claim to still be Christ-focused? How bout the verse that says, “Giving none offence that the ministry be not blamed”. We separate from the world so we can better point others to Christ. We as Christians are likened to lights. If we are dimmed for being covered in sin or just the mire of this world how can others see Jesus in us.
At the same time however, to be separated from the world does not mean we do not go into it. I attend a bus running church. Weekly, we go bring people to church that otherwise would spend a week godless and without hope and someone who loves them. I love all my bus riders, and I do not refuse a one for their home-life, body-odor, or dressing habits. And nine times of ten, they won’t ever hear anything like that mentioned. They are told of the One Who loves them unconditionally.
Most will come to church for years and only hear the doctrines of faith emphasized. But we do not compromise it is our job to give the whole counsel. For that our church has grown and still for more than 30 years. We are as old-fashioned as ever and I would put the spiritual strength of our church up against most. And we have a teen group that travels the countryside proclaiming Christ’s name.
Not trying to troll, but I came across the page and saw the rather lengthy discussion. We are constantly being called legalists and “judgers”. But that is all the page is doing. You just live and judge by a different standard. Your own.
What a blessing it would be to see this page turned around to point others to Christ instead of pointing out flaws in what everyone already knew was a flawed world.
No, what would be a blessing would be to see IFB churches turned around to point people to Christ–not standards, not the KJV, not the pastor–but God himself. That is largely the point of this blog–to expose the idol worship of fundamentalism through yes, satire and mockery, in the hopes that those inside will wake up and begin to worship Him whose Word has been twisted and perverted by fallible men to support their sinful desires for power and control and superiority.
Yes. Yes. To Obi-Wan you listen!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS2nWLz-AbE
I am far, far too young to ever get where that’s from. 😉
Though yes, I’m aware. Feeding the trolls is useless but fun.
Yes it’s true that not all ifbs are like that, but after hundreds of rebukes for stupid things like facial hair and eating at McDonald’s, I thought it was time to move on past a crowd that is more impressed with their standards than their saviour. After being told by not one or two, but several hundred ifb preachers and members that I could never be used of God until I repent for wearing colored dress shirts, it was clear to the priorities of the ifb church
But which God? the God that preserved his words in a book without error or the God of the bible agnostics?
Having the correct Bible is essential to correct doctrine how else would you do this?
King James Bible
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 2:15
First The Text in the languages was “purified seven times”
1.Hebrew
2. Aramaic
3. Greek
4. Old Syriac
5. Old Latin
6. German
7. English
6The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. Psalm 12:6-7
The English Bibles from the correct manuscript line also were “purified seven times” as well.
“purified seven times”
1. Wycliffe Bible
2.Tyndale Bible
3. Coverdale Bible
4. The Great Bible
5.Geneva Bible
6 Bishop’s Bible
7. AV 1611 Auhthorized King James Bible
Another sign that it is done and finished.
King “JAMES” from the Hebrew name Jacob prince of Israel That is another sign.
King James Bible
Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou? Ecclesiastes 8:4
When finished? Philadelphia Church age of Revelation 3:8 ” hast kept my word”
King James Bible
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. Revelation 3:8
What is something unique about the English text use of the AV 1611 Auhthorized King James Bible?
The Authorized Version AV 1611 is the only one that properly makes the distinction between “ye” and “thee”
In John 3:7 Jesus is talking directly to Nicodemus the Pharisee (“Thee” ) tell him not just he specifically needs to be born again but EVERYBODY ( “Ye” ) must be born again
All the other “bibles” use the generic “you” which makes it seem like Jesus is talking to Nicodemus about just Nicodemus.
King James Bible
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
◄ John 3:7 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’
New Living Translation
So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’
English Standard Version
Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
New American Standard Bible
“Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
All the Bibles after 1881 are Laodicean and come from the corrupt Alexandrian Vaticanus and Sinaiticus
Listing 7 ancient English translations does not make any of them pure or purified, nor does the “purified seven times” reference apply to any English translation. Scripture teaches us clearly about those who lie about the meaning of scripture like this. You should examine yourself & consider the error of your ways.
What book did you read what “Scripture teaches” in?
First The Text in the languages was “purified seven times” according to Psalm 12:6-7
1.Hebrew
2. Aramaic
3. Greek
4. Old Syriac
5. Old Latin
6. German
7. English
The English Bibles from the correct manuscript line also were “purified seven times” Psalm 12:6-7
as well.
“purified seven times”
1. Wycliffe Bible
2.Tyndale Bible
3. Coverdale Bible
4. The Great Bible
5.Geneva Bible
6 Bishop’s Bible
7. AV 1611 Authorized King James Bible
My biggest problem with KJV only is Acts 12:4. Just shows how anti-Semitic the writers of the KJV were.
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.
SERIOUSLY…easter!
Isn’t “Easter” in Acts 12:4 a mistranslation?
QUESTION #2:
Isn’t “Easter” in Acts 12:4 a mistranslation of the word “pascha” and should it be translated as “passover”?
ANSWER:
No, “pascha” is properly translated “Easter” in Acts 12:4 as the following explanation will show.
EXPLANATION:
The Greek word which is translated “Easter” in Acts 12:4 is the word “pascha”. This word appears twenty-nine times in the New Testament. Twenty-eight of those times the word is rendered “Passover” in reference to the night when the Lord passed over Egypt and killed all the firstborn of Egypt (Exodus 12:12), thus setting Israel free from four hundred years of bondage.
The many opponents to the concept of having a perfect Bible have made much of this translation of “pascha”.
Coming to the word “Easter” in God’s Authorized Bible, they seize upon it imagining that they have found proof that the Bible is not perfect. Fortunately for lovers of the word of God, they are wrong. Easter, as we know it, comes from the ancient pagan festival of Astarte. Also known as Ishtar (pronounced “Easter”). This festival has always been held late in the month of April. It was, in its original form, a celebration of the earth “regenerating” itself after the winter season. The festival involved a celebration of reproduction. For this reason the common symbols of Easter festivities were the rabbit (the same symbol as “Playboy” magazine), and the egg. Both are known for their reproductive abilities. At the center of attention was Astarte, the female deity. She is known in the Bible as the “queen of heaven” (Jeremiah 7:18; 44:17-25). She is the mother of Tammuz (Ezekiel 8:14) who was also her husband! These perverted rituals would take place at sunrise on Easter morning (Ezekiel 8:13-16). From the references in Jeremiah and Ezekiel, we can see that the true Easter has never had any association with Jesus Christ.
Problem: Even though the Jewish passover was held in mid April (the fourteenth) and the pagan festival Easter was held later the same month, how do we know that Herod was referring to Easter in Acts 12:4 and not the Jewish passover? If he was referring to the passover, the translation of “pascha” as “Easter” is incorrect. If he was indeed referring to the pagan holyday (holiday) Easter, then the King James Bible (1611) must truly be the very word and words of God for it is the only Bible in print today which has the correct reading.
To unravel the confusion concerning “Easter” in verse 4, we must consult our FINAL authority, THE BIBLE. The key which unlocks the puzzle is found not in verse 4, but in verse 3. (Then were the days of unleavened bread… “) To secure the answer that we seek, we must find the relationship of the passover to the days of unleavened bread. We must keep in mind that Peter was arrested during the “days of unleavened bread” (Acts 12:3).
Our investigation will need to start at the first Passover. This was the night in which the LORD smote all the firstborn in Egypt. The Israelites were instructed to kill a lamb and strike its blood on the two side posts and the upper door post (Exodus 12:4,5). Let us now see what the Bible says concerning the first passover, and the days of unleavened bread.
Exodus 12:13-18:
“And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.”
Here in Exodus 12:13 we see how the passover got its name. The LORD said that He would “pass over” all of the houses which had the blood of the lamb marking the door.
After the passover (Exodus 12:13,14), we find that seven days shall be fulfilled in which the Jews were to eat unleavened bread. These are the days of unleavened bread!
In verse 18 we see that dates for the observance were April 14th through the 21st.
This religious observance is stated more clearly in Numbers 28:16-18:
“And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD.
17 And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.
18 In the first day shall be an holy convocation;ye shall do no manner of servile work therein:”
In verse 16 we see that the passover is only considered to be the 14th of the month. On the next morning, the 15th begins the “days of unleavened bread.”
Deuteronomy 16:1-8:
“Observe the month of Abib (April), and keep the passover unto the LORD thy God: for in the month of Abib the LORD thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night.
2 Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the passover unto the LORD thy God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the LORD shall choose to place his name there.
3 Thou shalt eat no leavened bread with it; seven days shalt thou eat unleavened bread therewith, even the bread of affliction: for thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt in haste: that thou mayest remember the day when thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt all the days of thy life.
4 And there shall be no leavened bread seen with thee in all thy coast seven days; neither shall there any thing of the flesh, which thou sacrificedst the first day at even, remain all night until the morning.
5 Thou mayest not sacrifice the passover within any of thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee:
6 But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.
7 And thou shalt roast and eat it in the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: and thou shalt turn in the morning, and go unto thy tents.
8 Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly to the LORD thy God: thou shalt do no work therein.”
Here in Deuteronomy we see again that the passover is sacrificed on the first night (Deuteronomy 16:1). It is worth noting that the passover was to be celebrated in the evening (vs.6) not at sunrise (Ezekiel 8:13-16).
In II Chronicles 8:13 we see that the feast of unleavened bread was one of the three Jewish feasts to be kept during the year.
II Chronicles 8:13:
“Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.”
Whenever the passover was kept, it always preceded the feast of unleavened bread. In II Chronicles 30 some Jews who were unable to keep the passover in the first month were allowed to keep it in the second. But the dates remained the same.
II Chronicles 30:l5,21:
“Then they killed the passover on the fourteenth day of the second month: and the priests and the Levites were ashamed, and sanctified themselves, and brought in the burnt offerings into the house of the LORD. And the children of lsrael that were present at Jerusalem kept the feast of unleavened bread seven days with great gladness: and the Levites and the priests praised the LORD day by day, singing with loud instruments unto the LORD.”
Ezra 6:19,22: “And the children of the captivity kept the passover upon the fourteenth day of the first month. And kept the feast of unleavened bread seven days with joy: for the LORD had made them joyful, and turned the heart of the king of Assyria unto them, to strengthen their hands in the work of the house of God, the God of Israel.”
We see then, from studying what the BIBLE has to say concerning the subject that the order of events went as follows:
(1) On the 14th of April the lamb was killed. This is the passover. No event following the 14th is ever referred to as the passover.
(2) On the morning of the 15th begins the days of unleavened bread, also known as the feast of unleavened bread.
It must also be noted that whenever the passover is mentioned in the New Testament, the reference is always to the meal, to be eaten on the night of April 14th not the entire week. The days of unleavened bread are NEVER referred to as the Passover. (It must be remembered that the angel of the Lord passed over Egypt on one night, not seven nights in a row.
Now let us look at Acts 12:3,4:
“And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.) And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.”
Verse 3 shows that Peter was arrested during the days of unleavened bread (April 15-2 1). The Bible says: “Then were the days of unleavened bread.” The passover (April 14th) had already come and gone. Herod could not possibly have been referring to the passover in his statement concerning Easter. The next Passover was a year away! But the pagan holiday of Easter was just a few days away. Remember! Herod was a pagan Roman who worshipped the “queen of heaven”. He was NOT a Jew. He had no reason to keep the Jewish passover. Some might argue that he wanted to wait until after the passover for fear of upsetting the Jews. There are two grievous faults in this line of thinking.
First, Peter was no longer considered a Jew. He had repudiated Judaism. The Jews would have no reason to be upset by Herod’s actions.
Second, he could not have been waiting until after the passover because he thought the Jews would not kill a man during a religious holiday. They had killed Jesus during passover (Matthew 26:17-19,47). They were also excited about Herod’s murder of James. Anyone knows that a mob possesses the courage to do violent acts during religious festivities, not after.
In further considering Herod’s position as a Roman, we must remember that the Herods were well known for celebrating (Matthew 14:6-11). In fact, in Matthew chapter 14 we see that a Herod was even willing to kill a man of God during one of his celebrations.
It is elementary to see that Herod, in Acts 12, had arrested Peter during the days of unleavened bread, after the passover. The days of unleavened bread would end on the 21st of April. Shortly after that would come Herod’s celebration of pagan Easter. Herod had not killed Peter during the days of unleavened bread simply because he wanted to wait until Easter. Since it is plain that both the Jews (Matthew 26:17- 47) and the Romans (Matthew 14:6-11) would kill during a religious celebration, Herod’s opinion seemed that he was not going to let the Jews “have all the fun “. He would wait until his own pagan festival and see to it that Peter died in the excitement.
Thus we see that it was God’s providence which had the Spirit-filled translators of our Bible (King James) to CORRECTLY translate “pascha” as “Easter”. It most certainly did not refer to the Jewish passover. In fact, to change it to “passover” would confuse the reader and make the truth of the situation unclear.
http://samgipp.com/answerbook/?page=02.htm
Peter never repudiated Judaism. He was born a Jew and died a Jew. His Messiah was Jewish.
Is your Savior English or Jewish?
Brian, here are some straws. Hold on to them tightly…
If Jesus Christ came to our Church to explain Exodus 26:14 and bring the right animal would he strip a leather sofa, bring a goat make a stop at sea world to pick up a porpoise or a manatee or would he bring a badger? Not listed below, but the JPS tanakh says “dolphin skins” and the Tree of Life version says “sealskins
Now these people that claim all these are “reliable translations” that is just straight brain out the window stupid, they can’t all be right
goats porpoise manatee, badger, dolphin seal which would Jesus bring to show
A King James AV 1611 Bible Believer says “badger”
Would Jesus Christ really let use believe wrongly on that one for 400 years? The Tabernacle was pretty important to God
How could give we give the Gospel to somebody out of a book that your we are even sure is correct about which animal in Exodus 26:14
◄ Exodus 26:14 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
Make for the tent a covering of ram skins dyed red, and over that a covering of the other durable leather.
New Living Translation
Complete the tent covering with a protective layer of tanned ram skins and a layer of fine goatskin leather.
English Standard Version
And you shall make for the tent a covering of tanned rams’ skins and a covering of goatskins on top.
New American Standard Bible
“You shall make a covering for the tent of rams’ skins dyed red and a covering of porpoise skins above.
King James Bible
And thou shalt make a covering for the tent of rams’ skins dyed red, and a covering above of badgers’ skins.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Make a covering for the tent from ram skins dyed red and a covering of manatee skins on top of that.”
.
.
.
If the Exodus 26:14 parallel is no problem for the modern version users then will they be cool when this happens eventually?
Acts 16:31 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
They replied, “Believe in Buddha, and you will be saved–you and your household.”
New Living Translation
They replied, “Believe in hare krishna and you will be saved, along with everyone in your household.”
English Standard Version
And they said, “Believe in muhammad, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
New American Standard Bible
They said, “Believe on Science, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
King James Bible
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
So they said, “Believe on mother earth, and you will be saved–you and your household.”
Wow! What a leap of (*I don’t know what to call it politely)! Well, I will time warp back about 5 months or so to that conversation, BRIAN (so emphatic! Wow!).
First of all, do you think that God really, really cares that people today know the exact animal referred to by that verse? Is it necessary for salvation? Or is it an interesting, but minor part of the larger story?
That verse, by itself, out of context has no power to affect the spiritual life of anyone. Misidentification of the animal used will not harm my soul nor my intellect nor my relationship with God nor my ability to serve Him.
Even IN context, the story, of great interest in the Scripture, will not taint the Salvation of anyone. God will not reject those who do not know the story accurately to the nth word.
And, of course, no translation will ever substitute another name for Jesus Christ in Acts 16:31. The translators are honest, and the textual evidence is clear.
All your raving does is make your argument appear foolish — a pretty accurate representation of the KJV-only position. I was indoctrinated in that position once. After I got some education in place of the hysteria and sophistry, I learned the difference between worshipping God and worshipping a book.
If you are all worked up over that, you might find out your salvation is imperiled by not knowing what Gopher Wood is. Maybe it is time to focus on the weightier matters of Scripture, as justice, mercy and faith.
In Belfast we have a group of Hare Krishnas. The main difference between them and Brian is that *they* chant “Har-ee Krish-na, Har-ee Krish-na” and *he* chants “King James Bible, King James Bible” That is why I think he is a Poe.
You just said to “to focus on the weightier matters of Scripture, as justice, mercy and faith.” but if you don’t know which bible actually has the correct Scripture in it what Scripture are getting those ” weightier matters” from?
I read with authority from the Holy Bible in English
“Thus saith the LORD” then you guys come in from the source of apostasy with the ” Yea, hath God said” as if you roll with the serpent in Genesis 3
Well, the KJV authors did not consider themselves the last word in Bible translation. In the Preface, “The Translators to the Reader,” they wrote their defense of what they had done. It was printed in the 1611 version — as was the Apocrypha.
Do you accept the Apocrypha? It is 1611 KJV approved.
But back to the preface. “Now to the latter we answer; that we do not deny, nay we affirm and avow, that the very meanest translation of the Bible in English, set forth by men of our profession, (for we have seen none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God.”
“Therefore as S. Augustine saith, that variety of Translations is profitable for the finding out of the sense of the Scriptures: so diversity of signification and sense in the margin, where the text is no so clear, must needs do good, yea, is necessary, as we are persuaded.”
So the translators themselves disagree with you. The Preface notes some of the difficulties they had in translating. Part of the difficulty was they had Greek documents which disagreed in certain places, and they had to choose which to use.
You really should learn about the origins of the King James Version, as well as the fact that you read from a 1769 version of the KJV that changes spelling and even modifies a few verses by adding or subtracting words — even changing the tense!
You come across as very earnest, but ignorant. I know all the arguments. I was where you are. I thank God I was given the grace to learn better.
Just tell me which ONE of these Bibles is the correct one?
Only one can be right and the rest are wrong only other option is to say that God didn’t bother making sure anybody got it right if that is your stance say so yet don’t ever quote anything you refer to as Scripture when you don’t even believe it is truth
Which one is right? Tell me which one is right and throw the rest in a dumpster
◄ Exodus 26:14 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
Make for the tent a covering of ram skins dyed red, and over that a covering of the other durable leather.
New Living Translation
Complete the tent covering with a protective layer of tanned ram skins and a layer of fine goatskin leather.
English Standard Version
And you shall make for the tent a covering of tanned rams’ skins and a covering of goatskins on top.
New American Standard Bible
“You shall make a covering for the tent of rams’ skins dyed red and a covering of porpoise skins above.
King James Bible
And thou shalt make a covering for the tent of rams’ skins dyed red, and a covering above of badgers’ skins.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Make a covering for the tent from ram skins dyed red and a covering of manatee skins on top of that.”
International Standard Version
“You are to make a cover for the tent of ram skins dyed red and a covering of dolphin skins above that.
NET Bible
“You are to make a covering for the tent out of ram skins dyed red and over that a covering of fine leather.
Do you accept the Apocrypha? It is 1611 KJV approved.
No it’s not The Apocrypha was put in between the Old and New Testaments and clearly marked Apocrypha on every page of it to authoritatively make sure that nobody need be fooled into thinking those books were deuterocanonical like the Roman Catholics try to pretend. The King James Bible settled that issue by putting them in there and labeling them like they did so nobody would think they were scripture.
See what just happened to your comment about the Apocrypha .
God is smarter than you
see what he did with apocrypha and with your comment?
“He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.”
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
Did the writer of the book of Job claim to be inerrant ?
Nope
Does the writer have to claim to be inerrant for us to believe the writing is inerrant ?
Nope
Does the writer have to believe he/they are writing something inerrant for what they wrote to be inerrant?
nope
Did Paul believe at the time that he his letters to the Corinthians would be read as inerrant scripture to Christians 2,000 years later thousands of miles away from Corinth?
Does that mean they are not inerrant scripture ?
Nope
You either believe The Bible in your hands in the inerrant words of God preserved without error or you don’t.
I’m never met anybody that believes any Greek manuscript is inerrant and never met anybody who believed any bible version in their hand is inerrant except for King James Bible believers.
Do you believe God will be harder on those who believe they actually have his words in a book if they are wrong or harder on those that have his words in a book are told they are his words and yet refuse to believe them because they watched a James White debate Bart Ehrman or read a James White book a Bart Ehrman book and a Peter Ruckman book and refuse to believe any of them .
Will God be harder on Bart Ehrman, James White or Peter Ruckman?
For what it’s worth, I highly recommend The King James Only Controversy: Can You Trust the Modern Translations? by James R. White.
OH WAIT–it’s not written by a Sanctified, Set-Apart, Soul-Winning Independent Fundamental Baptist. I guess it’s unreadable trash that’s of the devil! 😐
Do you mean the edition where he lied 79 times or do you mean the edition that he corrected his lies after being pointed out?
I owe you an apology. When I responded to your post earlier, I actually did not respond to the most important part.
You said, “If Jesus Christ came to our Church to explain Exodus 26:14 and ….”
Let me assure you that Jesus Christ would NOT come to your church or any other to explain Exodus 26:14.
If Jesus were to come to your church, it would be to do what Jesus always did when He went to the synagog or taught His disciples.
He challenged their assumptions. He put down their squabbles over petty things that kept them from seeing the true meaning of Faith in God. He even rebuked the Pharisees: “Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.” (John 5:39, KJV). Instead of calling them to faith in a book, even one so holy as the Scriptures, Christ called them to faith in Him.
Christ demonstrated a radical new way of interpreting the Scriptures. He threw away the interpretations that prevented Him from doing God’s work on the Sabbath. He presented the Law as made to serve people, not that people were made to serve the Law.
No, Christ would not argue about petty versions. He quoted from the Septuagint, which differs significantly in places from the Masoretic. He used what the people used. He spoke to them in words they could understand. He did not demand that God could work in only one way. Every miracle was different.
Even those who preached the Kingdom but were not associated with Christ were welcome. “Those who are not against us are for us,” Christ reminded his disciples.
Do you think Christ would waste His time explaining which animal was meant by your verse when there are so many other issues He would need to attend to in your church?
“Only one can be right”?
Wow, you sure don’t know anything about other languages, do you? Translation is a tricky process. It is not a Jumble puzzle where you replace one word in a language with another word from a different language.
Ignorance is curable. Stubborn ignorance repeating the same tired irrelevancies is not.
Yes only one of these can be the right animal the bible that lists the correct animal is the correct Bible and the ones that list the wrong animal are lies.
Which one is right?
Badger, Goat, porpoise, manatee, seal (tlv not listed)
Which bible is true and which should be tossed in the nearest dumpster?
◄ Exodus 26:14 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
Make for the tent a covering of ram skins dyed red, and over that a covering of the other durable leather.
New Living Translation
Complete the tent covering with a protective layer of tanned ram skins and a layer of fine goatskin leather.
English Standard Version
And you shall make for the tent a covering of tanned rams’ skins and a covering of goatskins on top.
New American Standard Bible
“You shall make a covering for the tent of rams’ skins dyed red and a covering of porpoise skins above.
King James Bible
And thou shalt make a covering for the tent of rams’ skins dyed red, and a covering above of badgers’ skins.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Make a covering for the tent from ram skins dyed red and a covering of manatee skins on top of that.”
Context, context. Removing the two verses from the context creates deception and confusion.
First, the who Bible is not in view, much less future translations. So at the time of the writing and for over two thousand years, the verses would have been FALSE if the progression to the KJV were in view.
Betcha you don’t know the context the verses are actually in!
Let me clue you. David is singing about wicked men who oppress the poor and the needy, thinking only of themselves and rejecting the Authority of God or anyone over them.
But God declares “For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the Lord; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.” (Psalms 12:5 KJV)
Those are the words the Psalmist declares are as the purest silver. He trusts that God will keep this promise as long as the wicked exalt themselves.
By stripping verses out of context you do violence to the Scripture. You treat it as a thing to be manipulated, not to be taken as it is. It shows your vaunted concern to know God’s words are at the expense of actually listening to the message.
The truth is There is the true word of God preserved and there is the corrupt counterfeit word of God.
The manuscript variants are due to satan wanting to churn out Bart Ehrmans and disciples of Bart Ehrman and God allowed it to happen while also preserving his true words that have been received by believers and still available.
Scholars are blinded by their own pride
How do I know the King James Bible was the last English Bible authorized by God?
First, The Text in the languages was
“purified seven times”
1.Hebrew
2. Aramaic
3. Greek
4. Old Syriac
5. Old Latin
6. German
7. English
6The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. Psalm 12:6-7
The English Bibles from the correct manuscript line also were “purified seven times” as well.
“purified seven times”
1. Wycliffe Bible
2.Tyndale Bible
3. Coverdale Bible
4. The Great Bible
5.Geneva Bible
6 Bishop’s Bible
7. AV 1611 Authorized King James Bible
Another sign that it is done and finished.
King “JAMES” from the Hebrew name “Jacob” prince of Israel That is another sign.
King James Bible
Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou? Ecclesiastes 8:4
When finished? Philadelphia Church age of Revelation 3:8 ” hast kept my word”
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. Revelation 3:8
What is something unique about the English text use of the AV 1611 Authorized King James Bible?
The Authorized Version AV 1611 is the only post 1881 English bible version that properly makes the distinction between “ye” and “thee”
In John 3:7 Jesus is talking directly to Nicodemus the Pharisee (“Thee” ) tell him not just he specifically needs to be born again but EVERYBODY ( “Ye” ) must be born again
All the other “bibles” use the generic “you” which makes it seem like Jesus is talking to Nicodemus about just Nicodemus.
People that know the distinction know it from using a KJV or having been taught by someone who used a KJV
King James Bible
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 3:7
Parallel Verses
New International Version
You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’
New Living Translation
So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’
English Standard Version
Do not marvel that I said to you, `You must be born again.’
New American Standard Bible
“Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
All the Bibles after 1881 are Laodicean and come from the corrupt Alexandrian Vaticanus and Sinaiticus and have the Roman Catholic stamp of approval on their underlining texts
How do we know the English was finished with the Authorized KJV?
All revisions of the KJV 1611-1769 all occurred while still in the Philadelphia Church age
What language do you think Paul used when he wrote his epistles?
English
People that don’t actually believe that any Bible, any actual physical book they can hold in their hand read and believe is God’s words preserved without errors will never stand up for any doctrine because deep down they believe that what they read may be in error.
I use to be bothered if I heard about a “Christian” getting dementia or alzheimers and losing their mind yet I learned that ” Christians” that lose their minds like that either did not study their Bible, or did not believe their Bible or traded in their Bible for a t.v. remote control.
“a sound mind” ” by the renewing of your mind”
King James Bible
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind 2 Timothy 1:7
King James Bible
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:2
People that don’t believe that the Bible in their hands is God’s words preserved without error treat the bible in their hands as if it is a book full of errors so they won’t believe what I just typed is true.
There are no NASB only NIV only ESV only nkjv only people because none of the people that “use” those actually believe them fully.
I have a N.Y printed Holy Bible in English printed in 1868 it does not say King James on it just Holy Bible and if anybody somehow had a time machine and went back to 1868 gave the people an NASB or NIV or ESV they would immediately recognize you have given then a counterfeit bible that is not the word of God, flash forward back to 2014 and people accept anything with bible written on the cover as if it is acceptable, and that attitude is why modern Christianity is lukewarm apostasy and everybody is a joker like the people on this website, how did Christianity go from Paul the apostle being beaten and stoned an imprisoned all to give the gospel and sound doctrine according to the scriptures to people making websites like this one to make fun of Biblical New Testament Christianity?
Satan, using 200+ English bible versions since 1881, how serious is anybody going to take the “word of God” when 200+ different books claim to be the “word of God” and professing Christians act like it is fine
that’s the lukewarm type stuff that Jesus refers to in Rev 3
Wow! So anybody that has Alzheimer disease its because they are people who “did not study their Bible, or did not believe their Bible or traded in their Bible for a t.v. remote control. ” That’s not narrow minded at all. What about Carl Lackey? He was almost held to god like state among ifb preachers, yet before he died he had Alzheimer disease and lost his mind. I guess the man of God just didn’t study his bible enough.
25But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons. Colossians 3:25
Dememtia and alzheimers is the opposite of a “sound mind” and how are we to believe that God gave us a sound mind and we are transformed by a” renewing of our mind” and then we get “Dememtia and alzheimers ” even while being transformed by a” renewing of our mind”
We are not promised bodies that don’t break down yet we were given a “sound mind” and told to be transformed by a” renewing of our mind”
It makes no sense for a believer being given a sound mind and being transformed by a” renewing of our mind” to get dementia or alzheimers which is the opposite of a “sound mind” and the opposite of a a” renewing of our mind”
Trading in the Bible for a t.v. remote or just neglecting the “renewing of our mind” by not studying the Bible gotta be the cause of dementia and alzheimers in believers
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
” a sound mind.” “transformed by the renewing of your mind”
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7
King James Bible
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:2
does it sound like the guy kept being ” transformed by the renewing of your mind”?
Does dementia and alzheimers have anything in common with a God given “sound mind”?
Does the God in “the word of God” exist?
Does he not mean what he says?
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
So all neurological diseases are a result of not studying the bible enough? Two weeks ago I did the funeral of a man who passed away because of a brain tumor. The day before he died he didn’t even recognize his wife because of the size of the severity of the tumor. I guess he would still be perfectly healthy and alive today if he would have just studied his bible more. Carl Lackey preached harder against tv and studied the kjv more than any man I ever met. He started White Plains Bible Institute and it has turned out thousands of preachers over the years. I guess he would still be healthy today if he just studied his bible more
Yesterday I had a lady sit in my office with my wife and I because she was kicked out of the choir at her church and was no longer allowed to participate in any church related activities because she lost all her hair due to chemotherapy because of cancer. I guess she just didn’t study her bible enough. She doesn’t even have a tv, so according you the only other reason is she just didn’t study enough.
Russell, don’t feed into it. Some people are pot-stirrers. We should just turn off the gas and leave it alone.
I agree with you Lady Semp. It’s just hard to do sometimes when I’m dealing with precious people who are rejected and humiliated because they aren’t perfect. I’ve had men come to me crying because their pastor rebuked them from the pulpit for wearing a short sleeved shirt. Another man is currently going through my bible study classes that was “churched” (forced to leave the church) because his son got divorced. I spoke with a lady last week who was raped and chose to keep the child, which i agree with, and was told be her pastor that God could never use her in any ministry because she was at fault for wearing pants. All of these are former IFB members. These people chose to stay with the Lord instead of following a dictator, but there are untold thousands of people who are quitting God everyday and turning to a life of drugs and alcohol because of the abuse they have suffered. It hurts my heart
Will God be harder on Bart Ehrman James White or Peter Ruckman?
Misquoting Jesus by Bart D. Ehrman 2009
The King James Only Controversy: Can You Trust Modern Translations? James White -1995
The scholarship only controversy: Can you trust the professional liars? Peter Ruckman -1996
When you tell somebody “The Bible says..” or “The word of God says..”
What specific book are you referring to?
Is the book you are referring to inerrant and infallible?
Is “The Bible” that is inerrant and infallible actually in your hands and have you read it?
When you refer to the word of God, are you referring to “The Bible” meaning the inerrant and infallible words of God preserved in the physical book that is actually in your hands that you are actually reading in your language?
Do you believe that Paul is referring to original manuscripts/ original autographs that don’t exist, that you have never read or do you believe he is referring to “The Bible” in your hands?
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Do you believe that “All scripture is given by inspiration of God” and do you believe that that scripture is preserved perfectly without error in your language in the book in your hands?
Are these the answers you guys would give to the below 4 questions ?
1.no just a hypothetical term , 2.no, 3 no , 4 I don’t know, never seen held or read one.
1.Do you believe that “The Bible” ,”The word of God” the inerrant infallible physical printed book actually exists?
2.When you tell somebody “The Bible says..” or The “word of God” says..” or “according to scripture ”
Is it a specific inerrant infallible book you are actually referring to and reading?
3.Is the book you are referring to the inerrant and infallible words God preserved without error and actually in your hands and read by you?
4. Where can I get a copy of that book that is the inerrant and infallible words God preserved without error in my hands to read and believe as you do?
I’ve already told you I believe the KJV. I preach and teach the KJV. Yet I’m still unable to see where eating in Mcdonalds means im carnal and worldly. I still don’t see where all neurological diseases are a result of not studying the bible. I still don’t see where a woman losing her hair because of chemotherapy is now too carnal to sing in the choir. I still don’t see where wearing cowboy boots to church means i’m carnal and worldly. Yet according to the IFB churches, these are all a result of being carnal and worldly and disqualifies me from ministry service.
the lady who lost her hair should put a wig on to cover her head But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven 1 Corinthians 11:5
eating junk food at mcdonalds may have to do with Abstain from all appearance of evil. 1 Thessalonians 5:22
Do you live in an area where cowboy boots are associated with drunkards like Blake Shelton?
I can agree with her wearing a wig, but that doesn’t mean she should repent because she is bald as her IFB preacher told her to.
So you’re saying that if we eat junk food that we are not abstaining from evil? Could not the same be said about being on the internet where there is more wickedness available than the tv could ever offer?
No, I live in an area where cowboy boots are just boots. There are business men in this town that wear regular dress shoes and they frequent bars. Does that mean it’s a sin to wear dress shoes here now?
God gave a “sound mind” and tells us to be ye transformed by the “renewing of your mind”
Russell I was solely referring to people losing their minds and yes I believe that any professing Christian that loses their mind does so as a result of not renewing their mind Romans 12:2
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7
If Brother Ruckman loses his mind I will assume he stopped renewing his mind by stopping studying his Bible
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:2
.
Well since we’re supposed to take scripture so literal, I guess according to Romans 16:16, 1Corinthians 16:20, 2Corinthians 13:12 and 1Thessalonians 5:26 means that I’m supposed to kiss the men and everyone else when i get to church. If it’s just tradition that we are supposed to ignore, then why is it that we can use an Old Testament passage dealing with ceremonial law (Lev. 22:5) to say that it’s a sin for a woman to wear pants and make it applicable to the New Testament church, but 1 Corinthians 16:20 which was clearly written in the church age is to be ignored
USA prob the only ones that don’t kiss each other
So basically then we just pick and choose what scriptures we preach and enforce and what scriptures we just ignore. And we wonder why the churches are empty these days.
Russell, you’re being trolled.
Thats exactly why the ifb church is a cult. Just picking and choosing which scriptures to teach and preach and trying to be god. I’ve NEVER had an ifb preacher prove scripturally why wearing short sleeved shirts is a sin, why eating in Mcdonalds is a sin but it’s ok to hit up the nearest buffet after church on sunday, why wire rim glasses is “too worldly” for a preacher, why tv is sin but internet is ok etc. They are separated, but they are DEAD! All you can do is just blindly follow a cult
Thank you! Thank you! The Ultimate Poe!
English? Hoo Haw Hee her hee!
Dear BRIAN,
If there is anything like justice in this world, you’ll come down with a bad case of druel-on-yourself pants-shitting dementia.
Regards,
BJg
Well, BRIAN, let me tell you.
You appear to be one intense person, somehow divorced from reality, rattling off the same scriptures, spewing the same talking points, and telling us about a god of crazy.
My wife’s Grandfather was a devout student of the word and preacher of the gospel. Medical malpractice damaged his heart and hurt him in other ways. He suffered dementia. Lots of God’s servants have. If anyone’s mind was renewed to walk kindly and humbly before God, his was.
Oh! I almost thought you were real. Then you had to answer that you thought Paul wrote his epistles in English! And you said that Paul was referring to the English KJV Bible in his writings when neither the canon nor the language existed!
You are a beautiful Poe! I have to give it to you. Please, at some point take off the mask and let us know who you really are.
Actually I have personally know a couple of people who *genuinely* dbelieved, that *everybody* in the bible spoke, *exactly, word for word, as recorded in the KJV. To say anything different was to undermine the Gospel. 🙁
BRIAN,
Your god is my devil.
BGj
Stumbled upon this site by a friend posting one of the posts on his facebook wall. Some of Darrell’s posts that I have seen are pretty funny. Just wondering, are the followers here atheists or just hate the IFB movement?
“Just wondering, are the followers here atheists or just hate the IFB movement?”
Spend some time reading the posts and you will find out your answer.
I haven’t checked the About page in quite a while. Wow!!!! Did I miss a lot.
Brian – Christ didn’t die on the cross so you could be an asshole. Hopefully you have moved on and are trolling another website with your lame attempts to convert people. Convert to what, I am not sure.
Any single comment you made would make you a great poe. But no one that is just joking has the stamina you do to keep it up this long.
The World Hates Christ
tinysa.com/sermon/122712254310
The God That Nobody Hates – Modern Day Jesus
tinysa.com/sermon/9414036273
The Christ Of The Bible Divides – Do You Follow Him?
tinysa.com/sermon/914141720103
The Evolution of Pop Culture Christianity
tinysa.com/sermon/102914233270
The Heresy of Being a Bible Believer
tinysa.com/sermon/115152341562
The Bible Believer’s Goodly Heritage
tinysa.com/sermon/115152344204
Yay. Brian can copy and paste. Such a convincing argument.
I am not an atheist. Just someone the IFB movement has hurt, lied to, controlled, ruined relationships and blamed for the consequences of what they did.
As such, yes, I do hate the IFB movement.
Not that I hate people. I can’t really say that I hate any of the people in the IFB movement who hurt me. But I hate what happened. I hate that so many otherwise good people believe doctrines which allow them to do so much harm to others.
The World Hates Christ
tinysa.com/sermon/122712254310
The God That Nobody Hates – Modern Day Jesus
tinysa.com/sermon/9414036273
The Christ Of The Bible Divides – Do You Follow Him?
tinysa.com/sermon/914141720103
The Evolution of Pop Culture Christianity
tinysa.com/sermon/102914233270
The Heresy of Being a Bible Believer
tinysa.com/sermon/115152341562
The Bible Believer’s Goodly Heritage
tinysa.com/sermon/115152344204
^Spam
You still haven’t answered my question. Apparently you can’t. Explain to me why its a sin for a woman to lose her hair when she goes through chemo. If its sin then she should be able to stop it. What should she do? Why is it a sin to eat fast food? Why is it a sin to wear colored dress shirts? Why is it a sin to wear wire rim glasses? This is the crap that turns me off towards ifb’s. Ifb churches are making women leave the church because they dont own a dress. They are not allowing teens to come to church because they dont have a suit. They are making people quit their jobs because they had to work one Wednesday night. This is what ifb’s are all about. They care only about making sure they are more spiritual than everyone else. They dont care about seeing sinners saved. They care about making them look and live right
I was as extreme as it gets, a KJV ONLYIST, YOUNG EARTH CREATIONIST, GEOCENTRIST and realizing The Bible teaches Ancient Hebrew cosmology of FLAT EARTH.
I probably know The Bible better than your pastor, it’s what all my time was spent on last few years and I really sincerely believed it every word. I had 30+ bumper stickers promoting “Christ or Hell ” YEC Geocentric, KJV anti evolution etc etc. I bought old Gideons KJV bibles off ebay to give to people along with chick tracts to let everybody know they are wicked evil sinner guilty of being born.
I know all the argument for and against the positions and I was a loyal apologist, I’m probably a street preacher’s worse nightmare now and may send them crying to their mommy with their “faith” in shreds.
I could not have believed this stuff any more and could not have been any more zealous yet then realized it just isn’t true.
All you have to do is stop for a second and allow the possibility in your mind that perhaps the ” supposed contradictions” in The Bible are actual contradictions and that Robert Price, Richard Carrier, and Bart Ehrhman have valid arguments. Imagine then what “Christianity” would look like if was just manmade with no holy spirit” leading anybody and you see that is exactly what Christianity actually looks like
“Christian guy” think about it how many denominations there are and how that simply proves John 16: 13 false and 1 Cor 14:33 false, all you gotta do is compare the Bible with reality within Christianity and easy to see is what you would expect if it is just manmade.
Street preachers most zealous can yell in a bullhorn at people at the beach or wherever and be living by the book 24-7 and yet cannot ever lay hands on and heal a single person on the spot when according to Jesus Christ they are supposed to Mark 16:18, go look at Ray Comfort’s evangelism stuff motto Mark 16:15 as an order to all Christians yet the 16:18 is ignored because none of them can actually heal anybody ever. The Bible never said that after Jesus, Peter, Paul, that healing would stop when preaching and yet ask a streetpreacher and the “excuse is the healings stopped when Bible was finished and “those “miracles” were only for 1st century
Compare the average Christian life with how the new testament says Christians will be led by “Spirit” and see it just is not true.
apologists claim that you got your conscience, your knowledge of basic right and wrong from the “God” of the Bible who is supposed to be Jesus Christ front to back and yet Old Testament morality violates that conscience over and over with activity ordered by that “God”. apologists brush it off as “Old Testament ” while same time saying God cannot lie, doesn’t change and ignoring that Hebrews 13:8 has Jesus Christ supporting all the OT stuff that goes against your conscience while then contradicting it all with sermon on mount.
Once you shake the mindset of needing the Bible to be the inerrant infallible word of God, you will see that hell is no more a threat that Darth Vader sending you to the deathstar
What solidified it for me as completely fake, when having severe doubts and interacting with the persons associated with the KJV YEC Geocentric basically people who were 24-7 Bible people, all of them accused me of never having believed, being a fraud, a devil possessed, a CIA plant a Jesuit, a wicked evil devil not just possessed but an actual devil, when the actual truth was I was a true believer as zealous as claimed and seeing that all of these people who follow that Bible literally as possible and yet no “Holy Spirit” was around to tell any of them they were wrong in accusations it showed me John 16:13 completely false and all the arguments against Christianity are actually true.
This is what I use to drive around in 2,000 to 3,000 miles per month back and forth Richmond, VA to D.C.
http://s7.postimg.org/j1gmtgz9n/bumper_010.jpg
My “born again” experience did change me but I think it was just the start of a religious psychological simulacrum and I had the personality type susceptible to it. If I had been in Pakistan would have been Muslim for same reason I suppose. A Christian with zeal is annoying at most not physically dangerous had I been muslim would probably killed somebody.
I see now how religion had it’s time when society needed it but now it’s just…. stupid.
After being a young earth creationist I still see design in nature I just do not know who done it and sure do not believe whoever created really cares if I watch the Kate Upton Cat Daddy video
Thank you for this site! I have had the good fortune to have a family that uses their brains, but we have been affected by Fundies. My father worked for a bible study organization that would randomly get called by irrate people angry that it used anything other than the KJV. (It uses the NKJV). The more I learn, the more crazy a King James Only stance becomes.
Tradition has become their doctrine, just like the Pharisees.
Keep up the good work!
Hello everyone, I go to a independent Baptist church, use a king james open bible and kjv spiro zodiates Greek Hebrew study bible with strong’s numbers ect. I look at other modern translations (have a little collection ) to get a twist on the grammar in hard passages, but don’t really trust them because of the weird translations in places like
Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
other versions say things like God drew a circle on the water to separate light and darkness.
in Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea
and also-
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Can I get an Amen?
in some of these new translations it seems to me their quest to change the language is nearsighted and sometime makes it harder for me to understand? Even changing the teachings of a verse? (I didn’t say doctrine 😉 ) on top of the texts used for newer translations’ corrections varying so much from each other ( more from each other than the textus receptus) I just think kjv’s translators were smarter and had a more accurate paradigm ( gods preservation of his word for his people). I read in one of my newer translations that they thought the word had been corrupted through the ages, but their scholars had reconstructed it with their scholarship using the 2 more ancient texts that disagreed with each other right? I look at Isa 40:6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:
7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.
8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
So in conclusion, I contend
1) the paradigm behind these new translations, as to their “corrections” anyway, is unbiblical. I do use them sometimes *but not alone* as I don’t trust them.
2)I think some times they make it harder to understand what God is saying because they try too hard to make it different from the kjv wording.
So, when does “Stuff Lutheran’s like” come out?
How about: “Stuff Catlick’s like?” Oooh, we could have some fun with that one!
Dear Darrell,
First of all, I am an IFB. But please, hear me out. Afterward, you can choose to accept or reject what I have to say.
Secondly, I do not hate or judge you. I don’t know your history, and perhaps you have been mistreated by some of my fellow fundamentalists or so-called fundamental Christians. I apologize for that. Unfortunately, many IFBs have gone off the deep end and ostracized those they were sent to love and minister to. I realize that is a sad fact but unfortunately, a true one in many cases. Just know that we’re not all like that.
Thirdly, I just wanted to ask a question. That’s all. Why is it that you do the same thing you accuse “fundies” of? You would say that fundamentalists are terrible people because they pre-judge people based only on their appearance or standards, instead of getting to know them, but then you turn around and do the same thing by lumping all fundamentalists into the same category and prejudging them based on the title “Fundamentalist” instead of getting to know them. Sir, in trying to smear and mock “fundies”, you have become guilty of the same fault you accuse them of. Just wondered if you realized that.
Again, I don’t hate you and if you’d like to email or call or meet and chat, I would be open to that. I would treat you as a friend, and there are many people that can back me up when I say I’m a friendly guy. But must you resort to hypocrisy to get your point across? You have unnecessarily ostracized a whole lot of fundamentalists who simply aren’t what you claim they are, and would care about you and love you like their Saviour taught them to. Again, I don’t consider you an enemy, and I care about you. I would just like to know if you had ever realized you were doing this?
God bless,
Your friend,
Kevin
Listen, I’m a Catholic in the Latin Rite and I have to say that, those five points have been staple(s sans the innerancy of what they believe because of a differentiation of canon and authority) since the really we had a Church. Even the Desert Fathers like Antony of Egypt with incomplete knowledge of the canon of the New Testament. That and the thing is that, both visions (your’s and the fundamentalists) is toxic to the faith since their’s emphasizes a much too stringent and legalistic view of doctrine and dogma without allowing grace to flow in and accept the person and move on towards being in a deeper union with God. On the other hand, having Christianity as a just doing the socially acceptable thing as the right thing and working for a false sense of social justice since, we are called to be prophets (baptized into the priesthood,prophet,and kingship of Christ in Baptism with trinitarian formulas) who call out society and redirect it on the right path and it can be hard (they usually are shunned and face severe and actual persecution).
TL;DR There’s a third way found in Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy (The Russians are kinda out there though).
An independent Baptist Missionary (24 years in Romania) has posted a site “The Layman’s Biblical Handbook.” More than 200 doctrines at http://www.thelaymansbiblicalhandbook.com/
G. M. Matheny
Whenever I search for Christian thoughts about Harry Potter, the negative stuff always comes up, thanks to sites like Jesusishypocrite.com by David L Sicko and co. These sites clog up Google and make search results unhelpful. Their doctrine of separation is exactly like that of the mystics, monastics, and ascetics of the 4th century. Their rules are the same: touch not, do not handle. They emphasize “not of the world” and deny “in the world”. They think that Christian liberty is worldliness. I find their teaching to be disgusting and destructive.
I’ll start by confessing that I’ve not taken the time peruse this site, only glanced at a few pages on it, but it seems mostly to be a bunch of high school level banter aimed at degrading a particular group of professing Christians who simply have a different standard of convictions than the creator/administrator of the site does.
I am a former drug addict/drunk/atheist/goth/general piece of scum and I got saved at a tent revival held by an IFB KJV church in a field, in the mud and have never been the same since. Afterwards I attended several different styles of churches, everything from Catholic to Ass. of God to Presby. to Modern Contemporary to SBC to Black Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalian… you get the point. My mentality when attending these churches was not one of criticism but rather looking for what was right. I feel it’s probably widely accepted here that the majority of the doctrines most of these churches profess to believe, (Because let’s be honest, my experience at least, was that they certainly were not TEACHING much of anything, but instead were going through their vain religious sacraments or TALKING in group sessions about being “glory surrounded.”) is biblically unsound. I met some nice folks; who doesn’t put on their nice face at church on Sunday morning, besides the Fundies, that is; but more often than not God was not in the place. Their would be a lot of excitement, water sprinkling, smoke, electric guitar riffs, etc. but no real edification of the spirit, no provocation to draw nearer to God or increase my own holiness, no education in the scriptures to better equip me in my own personal work, soul-winning and ministry. Which is what the “church house” is intended for.
I’ve heard plenty of horror stories about abusive families and wicked pastors and all the rest but the common denominator is sinful men. Wal-Mart sells bum, cheap products, schools fill children’s heads full of lies, auto manufacturers charge astronomical prices for rolling plastic boxes but I presume that none of you have gone off the grid and begun to self-sustain due to the fury these shams induce in you.
Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. When you begin to slander and cut down your brethren you join company with the devil, that’s not a good crowd to clique up with.
Do you go to church to be a part of a social club and feel good about yourself or to develop a deeper relationship with your Saviour and get better equipped and trained to minister the gospel of the grace of God?
The biblical principal laid out in 1 Corinthians 8:8-13 is that the truly mature, strong Christian will humble and oblige himself to the weaker brother’s convictions so as not to lay a stumbling block before him. Paul again said that he became “all things to all men, that by all means he might save some.” Perhaps your IFB brethren and sisters are not as spiritual as you all are and need these extraordinarily separated standards to maintain their walk with God because other wise they would slip into sin, I know that for me personally that is the case. Having attended these other churches and experienced their “worship services” and witness their lax dress standards it all reminded me of where I came from and the life I used to live BEFORE I got saved, the life style I repented of and turned from. That seems inappropriate to me in light of the plethora of admonitions in scripture to be separate from and not conform to the heathen world in which we are a part of.
Consider too, Abraham and Lot. Lot compromised and went after the world, conformed and yoked up with them. Abraham stayed separate and lived holily; yet when Lot was carried away captive they called on Abraham to deliver them in their time of need. Abraham’s separation in no way hindered him from ministering to the people in their time of need and he still had the respect and his testmony at the end of the day. Lot on the other hand could hardly convince his own family of the wrath of God to come even when he had angels to back up his testimony. He even lost his wife in the mix because she longed for all that she had left behind in the world, no need to mention the influence his worldliness had on his daughters.
In closing, if you truly believe you are right and that the crazy, separated, legalistic, hellfire & damnation preaching fundies are way out in left field wouldn’t it be better to just have grace with them instead of cutting them down the way you are so upest about them doing to every one else? It grieves me to learn of the pain, heart-ache and suffering that has been caused to others in the name of Christianity but merely continuing the cycle with bitterness and contention, strife and slander of your brethren only darkens the stain and mars the name of our most wonderful, lovingly kind, gracious and merciful Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Consider him who endured such contradiction of sinners against himself; who when he was reviled, reviled not again, when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously. If you are truly a child of God and he is truly your Father than I encourage you to take heed to:
Proverbs 27:11 My son, be wise, and make my heart glad, that I may answer him that reproacheth me.
This promise of God has worked exceedinly in my favor beyond any thing that I could imagine when I simply told my Father of my light afflictions and he handled those who offended me in such a mightier way than I ever could have. And yet, even still I never found joy in their grief, but rather rejoiced at their repentance.
I hope this may be helpful to someone, and that it does not simply fall on deaf ears.