88 thoughts on “GOH: What Will You Say Then?”

    1. Merely a subjective opinion? Or is there some objective reasons behind this statement? It was just another hymnal as far as I know.

      1. It’s the worst hymnal I’ve ever read and I collect hymnals. Gotta collect souls to please Jesus, gotta be happy happy happy all the TIIIIME, gotta nag, nag, nag your family into mouthing the correct prayers and showing up for weeknight services, and then there’s the one about the little “Gypsy” boy. The songs written for this hymnal fall into three categories: (1) glurge, (2) guilt, (3) God loves our tribe best, we are so glad we are our tribe, their tribe is a bunch of drunk monkeys. If we pray twice when we sing a good hymn, what do we do twice when we sing this kind of crap?

        I have deliberately destroyed maybe three books in my entire life. SSS&H was one of them. What a waste of a dollar. (I got it at a rummage sale.)

    2. Dr, you obviously have never seen “Songs and Hymns of Revival” put out by Jack Trieber’s church.

  3. Fundamentalist leaders were asked to provide their favorite hymns for this hymn book. Dr. Bob Jones Jr. said that he chose “Come Ye Disconsolate, Where Ere Ye Languish” with the assurance that it would never be sung by any of the churches who used the hymnal. BTW, it’s the only hymnal I’ve ever seen with Handal’s Hallelujah Chorus.

    1. I remember a musical group using this hymnal to sing a special with parts of The Hallelujah Chorus.

    2. I remember going to a SOTL conference about 35 or 40 years ago in which John R. was one of the speakers. That was back when the conference was too large for a church and held in a civic center. We all stood and sang the Hallelujah Chorus. “The Baptist National Anthem” it was called.

    3. Actually the “Hallelujah Chorus” is in The Hymnal for Worship and Celebration by Word – a lot of fundy-lite churches used that to replace Inspiring Hymns etc. Having the “Hallelujah Chorus” in a hymnal can create much delight for pranksters of a certain age on request night.

      1. I seem to recall some young men requesting “The Star Spangled Banner” at a few request times. Even as a young pre-fundy, I never understood why it was in a hymnal.

      2. Our go-to, giggle choice was often “Wonderful Grace of Jesus.” It’s fun to sing with a congregation of confident singers, especially men, but in our meagerly attended Sunday PM service, it was a stretch, leaving just a couple men to bravely try to carry the “wonderful the matchless grace of Jesus” while all the strong sopranos had to wait to chime in on their echo.

  4. 1:24 “Looking into his piercing eyes…” Really? More like “In fear and trembling, bowed low before the Holy, Righteous Judge…”

    And another thing, where in Scripture does it say we will be judged on the “what might have been?”

    1. Well, there is such a thing as a sin of omission.
      Still, pretty much everything about this “hymn” is appalling– the bad rhymes, the terrible theology, the complete missing the point of why people sing hymns. A hymn is supposed to be a song praising God, not a song to lay a guilt trip on anybody listening.

      1. True, there is a sin of omission but as a Christian all our sins are covered under the blood of Christ, those sins of commission and sins of omission have already been atoned for and we, as Christians, will not be judged for them.

        1. Right-O Admiral. For Christians, the Bema judgement is a reward for what was done, not a condemnation for what might have been. It is purifying event.

          Feared it when fundamentalist because of the works based scaffolding driven by guilt, that is IFB.

          Now I look forward to God showing me what He accomplished through me by his Grace after it is purged of all my impurity that was added to it.

          Yay God!

      2. I personally prefer songs that exalt Jesus Christ and lift up our great God.

        However, a brother once pointed me to the Scripture that instructs us to “teach” and to “admonish” one another in song. So, it may have a place. The bulk of our songs should be “to the Lord”, I believe.

        If this song is to the lost, it seems out of place, for songs aren’t supposed to be used for evangelism. If it is to the saved, I, too, question some of the lessons it is teaching.

  5. Don, oh its there, you have just not looked hard enough or interpreted separate verses correctly. You could turn to your local MOG and he will, I mean will not show you and then give you some misconstrued information that he just made up…

    1. Ah the Cardinal Sin of “What might have been.” The Trespass of “What IF?” The IFB blood libel of the “If Only…”

      “Out, damned spot! out, I say! One; two: why, then, ’tis time to do ’t. Hell is murky! …What need we fear who knows it, when none can call our power to account? Yet who would have thought the old man to have had so much blood in him? Who could know that I didst not givest him a tract? Who shalt call me into account for not extending him an invitation to com’st to churh with me so that he could’t hear the preacher’s message and go forward to the Altar to prayest the sinner’s pray and be glorioulsy saved? Didst I strangle the poor dog in vain? Whose blood be this upon my hands? Out, out damned spot!“

  6. That’s the only hymn book we ever used growing up in the IFB. I do remember memorizing what songs were on what pages which usually was the same in every church we visited since they all had the same hymn book too. 🙄

    1. I think one church we were at used that one, but I grew up with Inspiring Hymns (Alfred B. Smith, Singspiration). At BJU, we used Living Hymns which were also at two of the BJU-affiliated churches we attended after college.

      1. Some of the BJU music people are hymnbook snobs. And, of course, being that way provides a revenue stream for BJU from churches buying BJU’s “superior” hymnals. Garlock’s hymnal (which was little more than a self-published collection of his and his family’s atrocious “hymns”) was the worst. He actually explained in one of his anti-contemporary-music books how he had to rewrite the words to some of the old standard hymns to conform them to his opinion of what was “correct” doctrine. Our church replaced all of its old, falling apart songbooks at one point and the BJU hymnals didn’t make the cut: too expensive and too many new BJU standards that no one outside of the BJU orbit had ever heard of in their life.

      2. BJU was too liberal for our IFB circles so I guess that’s why we never compromised by using their hymnals. :mrgreen:

  7. No wonder IFB are so miserable. If I had to listen and sing to those condemning words every Sunday I would need to double my Prozac. Geeeesh. 🙄

  8. UGH! I don’t remember ever hearing this one in church but I may have blocked it out. The church I grew up in used this hymnal. Just the sight of the cover brings back the twitches.

    1. Yes, I was pretty familiar with that hymnal as well. It was just another hymnal to me; it left out some songs I had cherished in “Great Hymns of the Faith” that I knew from an earlier church.

      Never heard this particular song… ever (until today)

      1. And they are using an evil “sin”thesizer. I guess those weren’t a sin yet when this recording was made.

  12. How to be a fundy:
    1) Confuse cultural preference for ethical imperative.
    2) Find a way to get the Bible to make it an ethical imperative.
    3) Preach it as ethical imperative.
    4) Pretty much ignore everything else.

    It worked for John R. Rice, and it can work for you too!

  14. Oh, barf. I didn’t grow up w/SSS&H, but my spouse did. It was also used at our former church and I loathed the thing. It should’ve been titled ‘Guilt-Inducing “Songs” & Glurge.’ *shudder*

  16. My home church used both editions of SSS&H. Of the dozen or more songs by Rice, the only one we ever sang was “So Little Time.” Get shudders just thinking about that awful song.

  17. That reminded me of someone reading a poem in “sing-song” fashion. It also transported me back to some of the special service music of my childhood. The funny part, is it was my pre-fundy days that hold a lot of the bad music memories from this style. The fundy days had their share of poor music, but in a different way.

  18. I was not able to understand some of the words they were singing so I cannot comment on this song, but the different churches I attended over the years, they all had their own versions of hymn books. I personally prefer the older hymns from the 1600’s to the beginning of the 1900’s. I also personally do not have a problem with convicting songs if they are biblically correct. The way I see it, if I am doing something wrong, and a song convicts me about it, then I am better for it because I will correct the error of my way.

    “Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee,
    Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
    The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.”
    Proverbs 9: 8-10

    Lately, I have noticed that the newer hymn books have very few of those God fearing songs and more songs that are modern, politically correct, and have less to no glory for God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit.

    “Treasures of wickedness profit nothing: but righteousness delivereth from death.”
    Proverbs 10: 2

    “My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
    For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
    Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
    For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.”
    Proverbs 3: 11-14

    “Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.”
    Proverbs 11: 14

    “Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded.”
    Proverbs 13: 13

    “The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.”
    Proverbs 15: 24

    “He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.”
    Proverbs 25: 28

    “Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.”
    Jesus in Matthew 15: 14

    “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.”
    Jesus in:
    Revelation 2: 7a
    Revelation 2: 11a
    Revelation 2: 17a
    Revelation 2: 29
    Revelation 3: 6
    Revelation 3: 13
    Revelation 3: 22

    “As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
    Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”
    Jesus in:
    Revelation 3: 19-20

      1. except instead of shouting BINGO it goes something like this

        MC: “Revelation 2:7a, Revelation 2:7a”

        Me: “Revelation 2:7a? I got that. Soul Winner! I got SOUL Winner here!”

      2. If the Word of God is irrelevent to you, then that means God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit is irrelevent to you too. When the time comes to meet Him face to face,you will find out how relevent He is in order to get into heaven.

        1. Think you missed the point Clique. Not to speak for Big-G, but I saw the same thing he did and I’ll speak for myself. The verses are not irrelevant – they contain the words of eternal life – but your use of them is irrelevant in context.

          Again, not the Scripture – but your use of them is irrelevant. We can communicate offline if you are genuinely interested in understanding what I saw and how one can use Scripture more effectively.

        2. So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
          Isaiah 55:11

          He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
          Matthew 11:15

        4. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
          Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
          Matthew 5:11-12

        5. Clique,

          Your sanctimonious non sequiturs are at least as bad as your out-of-context Bible citations. You ought to be a bit more careful to make sure you are “rightly dividing the word of truth.” Because it is “sharper than any two-edged sword,” and it can cut you to ribbons if you don’t handle it properly.

          You started out well, though.

        6. And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto Him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
          And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
          Luke 19: 39-40

          And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be pursuaded, though one rose from the dead.
          Luke 16: 31

          MSK,

          You have God, Moses, all the prophets of the Old Testament, Jesus Christ who rose from the dead, all the New Testament apostles, and saints in Jesus Christ from all over the centuries who have testified and proven God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit is true, yet you believe not and mock the Word of God and rebuke me for speaking the truth. If you reject their testimony then I cannot expect you to believe nor hear me eventhough I am alive and here to tell you the truth. Nor can I expect you to want to listen even if the stones were to cry out.

        7. For Clique

          2Peter 2:16b …the dumb ass speaking with man’s voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

          And my own non sequitur to add to the madeness of the prophet:

          1Ch 26:18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar.

        8. My Lord and Saviour was accused of being Beelzebub by the Pharisees and Saducees, so why should I not be called a “dumb ass” by you?

          “If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

          If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

          Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

          But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me.”
          John 15: 18-21

        9. Again…missing the point of ripping Scripture out of context and presenting without comment as you have done repeatedly. In context, the dumb ass was the only one seeing the whole picture, while the “prophet” Balaam had blinders on. My point was two fold:

          1. More Scripture does not equal righter.
          2. More Scripture without context is pointless and can be misleading, as you assumed my comment was a negative about you because it was offered without comment or context. But you got it wrong. That was my intent.

          Though now I suspect Poe-ish-ness, Clique. Beginning to hope so.

        10. Actually, like I said, Jesus was called and accused of being Beelzebub. So, I take it as a compliment because you have essentially told me that I am doing the will of God by sticking with the Word of God. If I had never stuck with the Word of God, and instead forsook the Word of God, and embraced the worlds words like you do, then you would be complimenting me. So, thank you for calling me a “dumb ass”.

        11. @clique,

          If you look at the verse then Jehu’s comment, he seems to be referring to himself as the “dumb ass”because he’s adding to the “madness”
          Just an observation…
          Also, “revile” might be a slight exaggeration

        12. Well you know what? The Pharisees and Saducees believed Jesus was “mad”. If that was his message that I am “mad”. Thank you!

        13. Just reciting verses is not enough, though that seems to be a standard modus operandi. Some examples of explaining the Scripture to give understanding:

          The prophets did it:
          Habakkuk 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it (or read it quickly)

          Jesus did it:
          Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded (explained thoroughly)unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

          The Apostles did it:
          Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
          Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

          Phillip gave meaning and clarity to the Scripture.

          The entire book of 2 Peter is a clarification and explanation by Peter, prior to his passing, to make sure the readers would not be tricked by false teachers or teaching. He was explaining God’s plan and warning them.

          Jewish parents did it:
          Deut 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

          Christian Parents do it:
          Eph 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

          Couple of interesting words there. Nurture is to educate and train. There are different words for rote memorization or recitation. This implies understanding is also provided by the father.

          Admonish is “to warn”. The greek word (nouthesia)is used over and over in many situations, for one believer to warn another believer about what the Scripture says. It makes for a very interesting word study as part of the “one another” commands.

          There are many more, such as Paul’s instruction to Timothy and Titus to explain the Scriptures.

          Simply throwing up a wall of scriptures as a defensive shield and then claiming persecution when confronted about it(Nouthesia is a pesky word when on the receiving end)can be perceived as unloving and shallow. Just trying to help.

        14. So, your saying the Word of God is not clear enough to you? You have the Holy Bible (Gods love letter to you) within your reach, and you say Gods Word is not clear enough to you? What part of Gods Word do you not understand?, or refuse to understand? When was the last time when you actually opened up your Holy Bible and read it?, or is there so much dust on it that you can write “DAMNATION” on the front cover with your fingertip?

          You seem like a reasonably intelligent person, but yet you don’t understand the word of God? Well, Jesus did say that there will be many that will be blind to the truth.

          How sad……how truly, truly sad.

        15. We understand the Bible just fine. It is you who appears to be confused…assuming you intend to be taken seriously. You just throw around words, without context. And without context, your words are meaningless, if not truly harmful.

          Surely you know the example:

          Judas went out and hanged himself (Matt 27:5).

          Go and do thou likewise (Luke 10:37).

          What thou doest, do quickly (John 13:27).

          Of course, if you are spoofing, you are doing a fine job of it. It’s hard to tell the difference. I knew quite a few preacher boys who thought they were smart because they could whip out a Bible verse that appeared to defend their idiotic, shallow, destructive behaviors and attitudes.

        16. At least you asked a question this time! I will make a last attempt at helping as your brother in Christ.

          To answer your question Clique, it is not me that says Scripture can be difficult to understand. It is God’s Word, specifically Peter. To wit:

          2Pe 3:16 As also in all his (antecedent is Paul) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

          15-17 gives better context. He is warning us that we are easily led away with the error of the wicked, who USE SCRIPTURE incorrectly. It is essential that one who understands and divides scripture well, explains it to others and helps others to understand it.

          As a fellow lover of God’s Word, let me admonish you one last time – Do not have a vast catalog of God’s Word at your finger tips and yet be unlearned, as Peter is warning about. That is a setup to fall from your stedfastness in Christ. That is vanity.

          Love you Clique. I really do and I’m rooting for you.

        17. If you do not want to be unlearned and unstable constantly wrestling with the scriptures as you have proven that you are very good at wrestling with the truth of the scriptures, I strongly suggest that you let go of your vanity and pride and humble yourself by turning your life over to God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit who can heal you of your blindness. Until you do, there is no hope for you. No amount of hate spewing from you is going to convince me to tell you pretty little lies. I will pray for your salvation.

    2. I guess it depends on one’s personality and background. I am already very conscientious and filled with guilt about all sorts of things — my soul longs for songs that pour out my soul to God and that uplift Him by extolling his attributes and glories.

    3. There are walls made by man built by frail and human hands
      that an enemy can scale and get to you.
      But there is one protecting me from my greatest enemy
      It’s a wall that Satan can’t break through.

      Chorus

      Sometimes a wall of grace sometimes a wall of faith
      Other times it’s sweet mercy that I need.
      But the one for which I long it makes all the others strong.
      I need a wall of prooftext surrounding me.

      *sung to this tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzx2k8lDiRo

      1. Are the seizures that strobe effect in the video induces meant to enhance the spiritual experience?

    4. Not in the Clique, if you like Really Old Hymns, then why not Gregorian chant? Or Byzantine chant? It’s hard to find extant hymns that go back much further, but chant is pretty old. 😉

    5. I’m going with what others have said – it’s far, far better to exalt Jesus, praise and thank God for his greatness and manifest mercy, than it ever could be to reprove or instruct in song. Let the chorus and dance begin! (You’ll find me in the brass section)
      It’s way too easy to turn an opportunity to instruct into a scolding guilt trip. The worship of God is no place for such.

  20. In other news, my fundy church switched from Soul-stirring Songs and Hymns to Majesty Hymns from Patch the Pirate. Win!

  23. I was always suspect of JRR. He’s the guy who once claimed (more than once actually) that he was “kidnapped” and “taken for a ride” by some gangsters who pointed a gun at him and threatened to kill him. He claims his response was “You can’t threaten me with Heaven”. I was about 9 years old when I heard that for the first time and even then I wondered why any “gangsters” would kidnap a preacher and threaten to kill him. This guy was revered within the IFB. And yet nobody called him on this Oversized Load?

    1. They say that when we get old, our faces settle into the expression we wore most often in our younger days.

      Is that guy up there on the YouTube page Rice? Because wow, he looks smug and self-satisfied. Like a big old tomcat that has all the dogs in the farmyard scared and drinks all of the other cats’ milk in the barn.

      1. Love the description! 😎 Too bad he wasn’t born as a cat; ever wonder if this has something to do with reincarnation? Probably just me. 🙄

  26. What will you do?
    What will you say!
    What can you say
    on that awful day!

    If anything is unforgivable, it is that wretched song.

    Christian Socialist

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