OH. It’s an American patriotic song. That would explain why I’ve never heard of it.
I’m an american, and I’ve never heard of it O_o
Me neither!
Likewise. 😆
I never heard of it before now, and I would be quite happy never to hear it again.
2nd? Sweet!
Third
I know that guy on the piano! I used to take lessons with him.
Feeling patriotic this morning eh?
You may be an ex-OBC student – but were you also at West Coast? I recognized the auditorium and (I think) some of the singers.
I find it interesting that the frozen shot from the video of the Rough Riders actually doesn’t show Old Glory waving on.
I can’t believe they would even show the Rough Riders and even mention Teddy Roosevelt.
One of our darkest moments of military adventurism, of dashing Cuban and Philipino’s hopes for Freedom.
Maybe it is the fact I was not born in the USA nor did I grow up here. The mixture of Christianism and state religion has always felt, well, dirty to me.
I don’t have too much experience with other countries, but of the ones I’m familiar with, none have the fixation on their flag that the USA has. I’ve never seen regular folks in any other country raise a flag every morning on their porch or front yard.
I have no problem with people loving the land they were born in, but elevating it into a religion is a bit much for me. I did not attend school here so my opinion on the Pledge of Allegiance which I never had to pray every day is a bit warped.
While I wouldn’t go as far as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, I believe they’ve got a point.
Ricardo, I was born and grew up in the USA, I’m an umpteenth-generation American, and I agree with every word you just said.
Love our country and work for its well-being? Yes.
Believe that our country is perfect and is scared in a way that other countries are not? No.
Worship national symbols as if they were holy? God forbid.
Likewise here, too…and I’ve had ancestors in every generation since the Civil War fight under that flag (unfortunately, my family was on the wrong side of that unpleasantness in the 1860’s 😉 )
Those who are still with us today would agree that conflating the flag with the cross is the worst form of idolatry. I have a Bible (a KJV, actually!) that my father took with him to Vietnam three times. I can still see the wear where he held it open, day after day, looking for hope in a hopeless place. The pages containing Psalm 23 in particular show lots of wear. That’s more a testament of faith to me than any of the contrived crap the Fundamentalists put out.
My father refuses to set foot in a church anymore because most of the churches near him have become infested with this nonsense. He’s seen the bitter end of war too often and would be far too tempted to call bullshit on any preacher who tries to beat the drum at the pulpit.
The Fundamentalists think they’re carrying out God’s plan by shoehorning the United States into it, but they don’t see that the British tried the same thing in the 19th century, with somewhat mixed results.
I know it’s a typo, but “scared in a way that other countries are not” is spot on: The uber-patriotic set of fundamentalists is petrified that we’ll fail and prove that they’re wrong—we’re not special, not God’s chosen country, not divinely protected from the consequences of our mistakes.
I meant to type “sacred,” but it’s true that this country often acts like it’s scared in a way that other countries are not.
You mean “sacred”, right? 😛
I can see both sides to this post. First of all, I don’t really care for this site too much because it is too sardonic and too scoffing. Although on occasion it does have some good points. Many of you have gone beyond the pale and instead of being objective critics, you’ve become jaded cynics of anything related to Christianity. I for one don’t object to this video and will give this group credit for having their heart in the right place and trying to be good, decent American citizens. The cynicism of some of you has gone too far in that you automatically are hyper-critical of anything related to fundamentalists, whether there’s a legitimate reason to be or not.
Steve makes some good points. While I don’t find fault in the least for this video, I do think they are naive. But I believe their heart is in the right place and their motives are pure. The Vietnam War was a complete waste of time and effort and a total fraud. Many or most of the veterans from that war are complete nutjobs who are now drug addicts living under a bridge and have completely lost their minds. Most of those young men started out as perfectly normal guys. So, did we “stop the spread of Communism” as was the purported reason for the war? Not in the least. By the way, stopping Communism is a noble and worthy goal, but that was not the reason for the Vietnam War. That was just the propaganda that was touted so Americans would be for the war. It’s similar to the modern wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The soldiers there are not fighting for our “freedoms in America.” That is such a fraud as to be almost laughable if it weren’t so sad. History is repeating itself. We’re finding that most or many of the returning vets coming back from the Middle East wars are completely bonkers nutjobs now too. Just turn on your news tonight. If you see anything about a shooting or a killing, chances are it’s another Iraq War freak. These guys just aren’t right anymore. The military and war have turned these people into despicable human beings. And for what? They certainly aren’t fighting for our “freedoms.” If anyone still believes that propaganda they are certainly naive.
There is a reason Americans are fixated on the flag. All other countries’ national anthems focus on either an historic battle or ideals to which the country aspires, whereas the US national anthem focuses on the flag. As a result, America’s identity and ideals are inseparable from the flag.
The Star-Spangled Banner was originally Francis Scott Key’s poem, ‘The Defense of Fort McHenry’, about the British attempt to capture Baltimore in the War of 1812. With Washington DC having been literally sacked, the loss of Baltimore would have effectively ended the war for the United States. Fort McHenry, which defended Baltimore’s harbor, was the key to the defense, and it held against a determined British attack. The poem speaks of the flag on the fort still flying after an all-night bombardment by the British Navy (‘And the rockets’ red glare/the bombs bursting in air/gave proof through the night/that our flag was still there!’)
This battle was probably the last time the United States had to seriously fear military conquest and occupation. It was *the* key battle in US history between the Revolution and the Civil War. The song isn’t so much about the flag per se as it is about a desperate last stand against an invader.
While I love my country, and its anthem, tremendously, it is one of the more difficult national anthems to sing and to march to. I wouldn’t mind seeing an anthem that *did* reflect our values as a nation.
I’ve long thought that Woody Guthrie’s “This Land Is Your Land” should be our national anthem. It’s a great song, it’s easy to sing, it’s in the public domain, the words are very easy to understand, and it expresses nothing but positive values(unlike “The Star Spangled Banner,” which is, frankly, quite bellicose and jingoistic).
That wouldn’t stop whoever wanted to from singing “The Star Spangled Banner” any time they liked, of course.
Okay, I am cheesy enough to say it: I do understand, on one level, the objections to our National Anthem. That being said, I get all verklempt at every baseball game I attend or watch, when I hear the opening strains. I may object to a flag in the sanctuary, but I love it in other places (my fave being a ballpark!), and I think Citizens Bank Park in Philadelphia rocks the MOST because not only is there the flag, the Anthem, and the Phillies, but a light-up (tacky, yes!), LIBERTY BELL “rings” for every home run! So yes, I am cheesy about my country. NOT the same feeling/devotion/emotion I feel for my Savior, but in the right place, not a bad thing at all.
Um, did this sound too baseball-y for here? Oops. 😉
Interesting historical fact: In 1861, Francis Scott Key’s own grandson, Francis Key Howard, was imprisoned in Fort McHenry by America’s first dictator, dishonest Abe Lincoln, as part of his crackdown on dissidents (those who were against his illegal war of aggression).
Hey, Dungeonmaster–how many experience points is a troll worth again?
Uhhh….”Remind us where our loyalty belongs.”?? Shouldn’t our loyalty be to Christ rather than a scrap of fabric representing a flawed nation? 😕
Ugh..that part of the song really bugged me too!
Amen, Kreine, amen.
I fourth that.
Agreed. This would be a great song in a country music star’s repertoire, but it seemed really out of place to sing about our loyalties to a flag behind a pulpit.
AMEN!! What is it with people’s infatuation for the piece of fabric?? What is it with people mixing patriotism with Christianity? Patriotism is patriotism, and Christianity is Christianity, and NEVER the twain shall meet!
*End of rant* 🙂
I hate when our flag/country become the focus of our worship. The song sounds like its the flag that had made us what we are. I was at a conference where the speaker suggested not having Old Glory in our sanctuaries. There was a lot of mumbling heard in the room.
I completely agree. Our kids club at our fundy lite church used to begin every week with the pledge of allegiance. We put a stop to that this year, and no one misses it. We as believers are to be loyal to Christ’s kingdom.
I think it’s weird that many protestant churches (not just fundy ones) are happy to have a flag but would not here tell of having a cross in their church(crosses in churches – that’s a catlick thing….) It’s not just in America, it happens in Northern Ireland, where I live.
Francis Schaeffer said “We should not wrap Christianity in our national flag.” This is so true. Remember the evangelical churches preaching Romans 13 in Germany…our only allegiance should be to Christ. If our nation happens to follow Christian ethics, then all the better.
“You survived to fight again, And you always will” ❓ ❓ ❗ That was as much as I could take of that.
How do you know? How can you complain about how bad everything is on one hand and on the other say that the US will always be there? I do know one thing for sure- when Jesus sets up His kingdom, He will definitely not be waving an American flag.
What? I thought Jesus was a card carrying Republican?
The company that hosts our website has some patriotic backgrounds that I refuse to use. They are so tacky.
That’s where I had to cut it off. In spite of all the bad patriotic sermons I have endured over the years, I still can’t find anywhere in scripture where the USA is mentioned, or where the promises to Israel transferred to our share of North America. Don’t even ask a fundy preacher if those sermons work for, say, England or Brazil, The Czech Republic, or any other country.
The closest references to the US I can find are where God is not willing that any should perish, and that Christ died for the sins of THE WORLD [emphasis added] and that includes pretty much everybody.
Well, on a performance level, that was one of the better videos ever posted here. A few minor snafus, but nothing that assaulted the ears violently. However, and I’m fairly opinionated on this, I see no need for ever doing a song in worship to a flag in a church service. I’m actually against almost all patriotic songs in general in church. I’ve led songs on 4th of July weekends in our church and will include God Bless America in the worship service, but I make it the first song so it’s done and out of the way. The only reason I even include it is to not offend some in our congregation. I’m not unpatriotic, I just believe we should focus on His Kingdom, not a temporal one.
I don’t know who wrote this song, but just making words rhyme at the end of lines doesn’t work.
Also, what’s with the big present and the cutout word, “LIFE”?
The song was written by country writer Billy Dean, just FYI.
Was this a 9-11 memorial service?
If memory serves correctly this song was written in memory on 9-11-11.
One of the steps of my deliverance from fundy-dum was the realization that patriotism and loyalty to Christ are not synonymous, do not go hand-in-hand, and are certainly not on an equal footing. I now object to the flag in the sanctuary, though silently. I love my country, am so thankful to enjoy its benefits, but do understand where my true citizenship is. BTW, if Jesus belongs to either of our two big political parties, then I am a monkey’s uncle… Yes, I do know that Strangely Warmed was using sarcasm. 😉
“One of the steps of my deliverance from fundy-dum was the realization that patriotism and loyalty to Christ are not synonymous, do not go hand-in-hand, and are certainly not on an equal footing.”
Woot!! More power to you!
“I now object to the flag in the sanctuary, though silently.”
If I were you, I’d publicly object to such idolatry.
“I love my country, am so thankful to enjoy its benefits, but do understand where my true citizenship is.”
Yes! You could noy have said it better!
a, the reason I object silently is that I am mindful of the ones who are on their way out, but not at that point yet. I do not believe that flag in the sanctuary is an object of idolatry for everyone there, in fact, perhaps for few to none. It is out of place, but not worth a fight among the flock. IMO, that is. Others are entitled to theirs, and I respect them. My own son thinks it is idolatrous. And thank you for your kind words! 😉
I’m curious about the shot of the flag on the moon. Most of the IFB types I have been around, granted that’s the “we don’t need no book learnin'” type will say we have never been to the moon.
I’ve met a few of those but most of the ones I’ve known not only believe that we went to the moon, they believe that the lack of moon dust proves that the earth is only 6000 years old.
I haven’t heard this theory before.
Are they saying there’s no moon dust on earth? How do they know? There’s a great deal of dust on earth. Some of it might be from the moon.
Or are they saying the moon doesn’t have dust? That’s patently false.
The story goes that “scientists” believed that the dust on the moon would be many feet thick due to the impacts of millions of years of space debris.
But when the astronauts got there….SURPRISE! the dust was only INCHES thick! Therefore “proving” that the moon (and therefore by extension, the earth) is a lot younger than those silly scientists thought it was.
There were actually two camps to the ‘Moon dust’ debate: one believed that the Moon was a completely solid, inert ball and the other believed that the Moon was covered in an ocean of dust, as cited.
The reality was somewhat in the middle: the Moon is covered in fine dust, but only to a depth of a few centimeters, and there are extensive lava fields and other formations that are solid rock. One problem the astronauts experienced after working on the lunar surface was the accumulation of dust on their spacesuits. It was so bad that when the Apollo 11 astronauts removed the suits, the dust circulated in the air in the lunar module and caused allergic reactions. Later missions carried a large paintbrush which the astronauts used to remove the larger concentrations of dust from their suits before reentering the LM. Aerosolized dust is considered a serious health hazard in the risk management studies for a return to the Moon.
The problem of lunar dust is further complicated by the fact that the lunar surface is a vacuum, which leads to contact welding between some of the finer particles. Even though the lunar surface is mainly fine particles, it behaves as solid ground due to the effects of the hard vacuum.
As for Moon dust on the Earth, most dust would be vaporized in the atmosphere on the way down, but we have something better. Namely, actual meteorites that originate from the surface of the Moon:
The lunar meteorites are spectroscopically similar to rocks returned by US and Soviet space probes in the 1960’s and 1970’s as well as modern analysis of the lunar surface.
Nothing like what’s actually in God’s universe to beat what people like to believe is in God’s universe.
Biggie G’s, this is where this site loses me. I lurk here, but very rarely post. Somehow the site seems to always turn toward the goal of glorifying evolution. Although I certainly respect your right to believe and say what you want, it’s not my cup of tea.
The site also makes me lose interest when it goes overboard and thinks we should all be good Communists and hate liberty and freedom because that’s just so passe and unhip. I mentioned a few posts back how critical I am of much of our historic and current foreign policy, but on the other hand, I realize that America has many, many wonderful things about it and has been a great example of religious and personal freedom. Many of our fine readers seem to think it’s “selfish” and uncool to value religious freedom. Weird. Very weird. Here you are on the one hand being super critical of fundamentalism because it’s too rigid and legalistic, yet many of you seem to hate America and think freedom is demode and embarrassing, especially in front of your Communistic cousins. This site seems to have a split personality.
True definition of a redneck: someone who thinks the Moon landing was faked but professional wrestling is real. 😀
This is one time I will not be critical. I love patriotic songs and patriotism. I miss hearing the American national anthem since moving to Canada. There is nothing wrong with having a patriotic service any more than having a special service on mother’s day or father’s day or Christmas. I haven’t heard this song before but I enjoyed it very much. 🙂
Christmas is a religious holiday. Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, and Flag Day are not.
Therefore a Christmas service is right and proper, but the others are confusing American culture with Christianity.
+10 for that comment Big Gary. It’s all about Jesus not card company made “holidays” or patriotism to any country – only to the Kingdom of God
To balance that out, I will now listen to John Lennon sing “Imagine”
The Friends (Quaker) hymnal actually has “Imagine” in it.
Nice!!!!
I am going to have to separate from Darrell because of the posting of contemporary music. This style of piano playing should not be aloud because it is most commonly used in CCM. Also the individuals singing used sliding to reach a note which is a vocal technique associated with rock and roll or CCM. I will now have to disavow and separate from anyone associated with this site, with Darrell, with all of you commenters, with people you are friends with, and pretty much everyone in the world. Goodbye.
Wait, and take away the coolest little icon thingy ever, the guy in the frightening cowl??? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! 😯
You’ll be baaaack! 😉
I thought this was very well sung. The kid on the right (the baritone) has a beautiful voice; as a former music teacher, I hope he pursues a musical career.
This is a decent, appropriately stirring patriotic song. That said, I see no place for it in church. “Remind us where our loyalty belongs”? If I recall correctly, the early Church had some very strong convictions about that subject, and more than a few dead bodies to show for it.
+50 😀
Dear God in Heaven, how trite are those lyrics?! And as a musician, I find it difficult to watch fundy performances because of the plodding piano and emotionless singing. Painful.
“plodding piano”, LOL!! Well, lan’ o’ Goshen! Ya sho did hit du nail on dee hayd!
Pilgrims passing through.
Politics & patriotisn are just hobby horses for fundy preachers to rally the troops around. I disliked when our old fundy church did pledges every week. US flag, Christian flag & the Bible. Just not sure the pledge of allegiance is true anymore, if it ever was. “one nation under God”, hmmmm. We have freedom and a good system of government but it’s not to be worshipped. There is and always has been corruption in government. Slavery, Indian reservations, Japanese internment camps, abortion etc…
I pay my taxes & vote. Other than that I don’t want anything to do with the government especially in relation to worship.
Straight up idolatry
The thing is most fundies I know really believe America is some sort of new Israel or new promised land specially blessed by God because of the faith of the “founding fathers.” I think there is even an evangalism team that goes around specifically furthering this idea to uninformed congregations. I love my country (in a sensible way), but these people really need to pick up a history text other than A Beka or BJU Press.
Yeah, the fundy myths about American history and the founding fathers are just absurd. I always wanted to bring a Jefferson Bible to school and shove it in their faces. I think the real reason that fundies mock the Mormons and denounce them as a cult is that they’re jealous that they didn’t think of the “Jesus came to America” thing first.
The whole claiming OT promises to Israel for America is particularly ironic. Many IFB churches are dispensational and harp on how the church is not Israel, therefore the promises to Israel (particularly the end time stuff) do not apply to the church. But its okay to apply them to a country never even mentioned in the Bible, go figure.
While I did get the whole ‘USA is a favored nation in God’s eyes’ bit in church (but not in school–I was in public school from kindergarten through grad school) I also learned that the modern State of Israel is *not* the Kingdom of Israel as described in the Bible because modern Israel functions as a secular democracy. This approach actually makes a great deal of sense, but it also pokes a gaping hole in the notion that the End Times are upon us because Israel has been restored.
If the Fundamentalists read *real* history books, they’d learn that the United States is hardly the only country to believe it was favored in God’s eyes: the German soldiers of World War I did not have ‘Gott Mit Uns’ engraved on their belt buckles for no good reason. Nor was the Tsar known as the ‘Little Father of all the Russias’ (the Big Father being God, thereby equating the Tsar with Christ himself!) just for fun. (See Also: the 19th-20th century British Empire, the 17th-18th century French Empire, the 16th century Spanish empire, etc., etc….)
This is a church hymn only if one literally worships the flag.
I was going to say that it is the rankest kind of idolatry, but I see that several earlier-rising sisters and brothers have already pointed that out.
Loved the song! I’m proud of our country! I served her in the military, and am proud of that. I’m delighted that God has seen fit to bless this country. I think it is simply fantastic that these young people sang this beautiful, uplifting song in church. I think it is not only fitting and proper to be sung in a church, but God-honoring as well.
God bless America! God bless these precious young people! God bless this church and its leaders for allowing this song to be sung in their sanctuary.
I only wish I could have been there!
Thank you for your service.
I am thankful for the country in which I live, and I owe a debt of gratitude to the sacrifces men & women such as yourself (and their families) for the privilege of the freedoms I enjoy.
Thank you for your service.
Flag-honoring =/= God-honoring.
Indeed. There is a place to honor the flag of your country, and there is a place to honor God, however you see Him/Her/It/Them. They are almost never the same place.
Thank you for your service, greg. I never served in the military however I live and work near (sometimes on) a military installation. I am constantly amazed at the ordeals that service members and their families have to go through. Their toughness and dedication is an inspiration to me. I don’t know your branch of service, rate, rank or actual name but I appreciate your willingness to sign up and go.
Thank you, greg, for your service, for the hardships you suffered, and for your patriotism. I am proud of YOU, and pleased that you are here.
I am a presently serving member of the Canadian military and love my country and am grateful for my freedom. However, I do not believe that this song belongs in a worship service. It ascribes to the symbol of the flag things which should be ascribed to God – particularly in the context of worship. The irony of course is that fundys won’t sing CCM that directly honours God but will sing a song that honours a flag. Bizarre.
Greg, whenever I see a military man I make sure to tell him a hearty “You’re Welcome.” You’re welcome for me having a job and supporting you government workers. Thanks to me, you can go about killing innocent civilians and children and actually get paid for it. I hope you’re grateful. If it weren’t for productive citizens like me, you might actually have to go out and get a real job and not kill people.
Sheila, if you were actually sober when you posted this, you are more than welcome to give up the freedoms their sacrifice provides you.
We recently almost had a church split over whether or not to display the American flag and the flag of Israel on our stage. Our church is NOT a fundy church, but before our old pastor left (went to jail) they displayed both flags. The new pastor took them down. A very passionate faction of the church protested. It was ugly. So many stupid things act as distractions from what is really important. {sigh} 😥
The flag of ISRAEL??? 😯
Wow, that’s a new one on me (for a church in the U.S.).
Some churches are very much “into” supporting Israel. This one just took it that much farther.
Darrell has featured quite a few churches with the Star of David flag prominently displayed from the pulpit/podium. I think probably mostly in various videos, but I know I’ve seen it. I think there was even one that had it on the communion table in front of the pulpit (on a non-communion event).
WOW 😯
I like patriotic songs, and I like seeing the flag on the platform. To me it symbolizes why I am free to worship when/where/how I want in the first place. This song definitely is flag worship. But seriously? I’m probably more in the camp of “Who cares?”
Agree
When I was a child I went to Western Hills Baptist Academy. It was started by J.R. Church. He had a television programme called prophesy in the news. The school and church had American flags at every turn. We were brainwashed to believe that God had chosen America and we were in the end times. Up until I was 15 and went to public schools I thought that patriotism and Christianity were together. Thanks to my mom a history professor and some knowlegeble teachers I know they are separate. I know that we are an arrogant bunch of assholes to so boldly believe that we are part of biblical prophecy and God has somehow chosen america for something grand in his plan. History will show us like any other great empire once grand but died from its excesses and belief.in its grandeur. I am a veteran and things like this video, american flags in church, and patriotic crap for sale at the christian bookstore make me throw up in my mouth a lot. My faith is so much more bigger than my country. And should be.
Ironically, my experience as a kid in fundamentalism was the exact opposite. I always heard that America wasn’t mentioned in end-times prophecy so it would most likely be destroyed by the time it all happens.
Of course God has chosen America. All of it.
And God has plans.
As soon as the rest of America comes through the Rio Grande, and we establish God’s own Spanish as the language of choice… Then you will see God’s plan for this country, this continent and this world REALLY come to fruition.
A Dios sea la honra
I’ll see it first. I live right on the Rio Grande. 😉
A race between there and San Diego, where most of my family is. The conquistadores didn’t die out…they just haven’t finished yet. 😉
Ricardo, every DAY now I look for your name among my other favorites. THIS POST ROCKS. 😀
Ricardo, I get in trouble every time I say something like that. 🙂 But, it’s true.
I love America, am a very patriotic person, am proudly married to a soldier, and hope I never stop getting goosebumps when I hear the national anthem.
With that said, it has nothing to do with my Christianity and my primary loyalty is to Christ, not America. I agree with Tammy above who mentioned seeing the flag in the sanctuary reminds her of how she is free to worship as she pleases, but I will never be part of a church who worships the flag like fundies do. =P
Patriotism is really something that is from the heart. It is immature to judge another person by how much/little they demonstrate their patriotism. Most Americans are very grateful to be in a free country, able to worship, work and play as we see fit. I enjoyed this song, not that I agree with all the words, but it was nicely done. That being said, I don’t believe the whole service was devoted to this topic, it was just one song.
In the past LBC has had “I love America” Sundays and patriotic cantatas during services.
Church is where we gather to worship our God and Savior – not our country. Governments come and go, but our God is forever.
I had a dear old friend, a World War II Air Force vet, who was a participant in the bombing of Dresden. He never would talk about it.
One Sunday some years ago, he happened to attend an Independence Day Weekend service at the Baptist church pastored by his fundamentalist son. The whole thing was dedicated to God and Country, America as the new Israel, the whole nine yards. He was so sickened by it he told me it was all he could do to restrain himself from getting up and walking out.
That is truly heartbreaking.
I’ve had several thoughts run through my head as I listened and watched the video and then read the comments.
The Bible should be the manual on how churches are run and what is done. When the Bible talks about singing and songs, it says (Eph 5:19) that we are to make melody “to the Lord” and we are to speak in song to other believers. A similar passage in Colossians says a similar thing (Col 3:16). I don’t think that a patriotic song is therefore appropriate in church.
I didn’t like the LBC version of the song; they seem to be half-way toward CCM; either embrace it fully or shun it — their half-and-half attitude irritates me.
It used to be that US schools taught a good view of the US, and taught patriotism, and said the pledge of allegiance to the flag. As the schools have neglected that duty, and Christians pulled out of public schools to start their own schools, they taught that patriotism in their schools. I have no problem with this, and I wish the public schools would return to the practice. But I do have to say that the pledge of allegiance at church or church events is probably out of place. School, yes. Church, no. We belong to Him that saved us, even if our country is no more, and it is wrong to equate salvation with our citizenship.
I never got the impression from any preacher I’ve heard in any church that they think the US is perfect (as some on here claimed). I **DO** think that the US has been blessed by God, and we should be thankful for His blessings.
Where in the U.S. do schools not teach patriotism, or not say the Pledge of Allegiance?
I’ve visited a fair number of public schools in the last few years, and every one of them displayed the U.S. flag, urged their students to be patriotic, and said the Pledge of Allegiance in school and at parents’ meetings and community events.
I think it’s more Fundy fantasy that American public schools are somehow anti-American. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Obviously the people who believe/spout this fantasy haven’t been in the elementary school that I work in. Like clockwork every morning, “I pledge allegiance …..”. This, in my opinion is where it belongs, not in church!
Maybe they do; I haven’t been in public schools since I graduated, and that was a long time ago. I don’t remember saying the Pledge of Allegiance after about 3rd grade. I don’t recall any specific patriotic teaching — I’m not counting patriotic holidays; I mean a general attitude/teaching to love one’s country). I admit that my impression of modern schools comes from hearing preaching in fundamental churches about the sorry state of public schools.
My kids are in public elementary school right now. They said they sometimes say the pledge, especially on special occasions, but certainly not every day.
Biggie G’s, ok, ok, I admit it – you reeled me in. Of course I now have to ask the obvious question: I have to assume you are being super trollish and using great hyperbole and wit when you say this?? “I think it’s more Fundy fantasy that American public schools are somehow anti-American. Nothing could be farther from the truth.”
No one could in real life could really be that naive to actually believe what you said, could they?
Are those people or statues sitting in the choir loft? 🙄
Everyone knows that commandment #1776 states:
“Thou shalt pledge allegence and sing songs to the flags that shalt dwell on the holy platforms in the houses of our Lord, along with the holy white piano.”
There has been some effort by some hooligans to remove ‘white’ from this commandment, but these efforts have failed. Praze the Lard! Honolulu, I want to go there!
When I was a kid, I always wanted a white baby grand. My fiance almost bought me one instead of an engagement ring, but decided he should let me pick out my own piano. I’m so glad he did, because SFL has ruined white pianos for me. I never thought of it before, but looking back, they *are* ubiquitous in fundy institutions!
I think it’s only in certain circles of fundydom. The churches I’ve been in were usually small and had uprights – often old and in need of tuning! I’m pretty sure most of the churches I’ve been part of would have thought white pianos ostentatious and showy (and maybe even tacky).
Christian Fundamentalism and Neo-Conservative philosophy are incestuous kissing cousins.
I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t like to be the one to get up and sing a song that has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity in my church. You may as well sing The Itsy Bitsy Spider. Granted I am Canadian. I love my country and it’s people in lieu of the flag. Even as a military member, proud of my service, I don’t see how singing about it is an act of worship. Doesn’t mean the song wouldn’t be appropriate at another time or place.
Because we all know that in the throne room of heaven on the right side of the throne will be the organ and Old Glory and over on the left side will be the piano and The Christian Flag…and we will worship Jesus in English only and there will only be hymns! AMEN
Jesus was a REPUBLICAN
Dude with the glasses has a nice voice…smooth like Basco
OMG! What exact liberties are these idiots convinced are being attacked? If they think it’s the liberty to be dumbasses, they seem to be pretty unencumbered by any regulations or laws to wallow in their own isolated stupidity. Good freaking grief.
Well said!
Darrell, thanks for posting another video to go dislike. Need to get those dislike stats up on these dopes.
Is it just me, or does the young lady singing look like she’s in pain?
So, since patriotism=Godliness, then doesn’t that make our Founding Fathers a group of traitors who should be reviled? Didn’t they already have a government and the Union Flag? (The Union Jack name and flag came in 1801)
We call it a Revolution because there was a revolt. Against the legal government. That makes them traitors before they became heroes.
PLEASE–do not blast my patriotism, I love the US. I just want to point out what I see as a serious flaw in the logic of patriotism vs. Godliness.
It’s a day or 2 later, and I’m still offended they had the temerity to sing a song like this in a church, as part of what sure looks like a worship service. Shame on whomever did this.
Comments are closed.
A silly blog dedicated to Independent Fundamental Baptists, their standards, their beliefs, and their craziness.
Am I?
OH. It’s an American patriotic song. That would explain why I’ve never heard of it.
I’m an american, and I’ve never heard of it O_o
Me neither!
Likewise. 😆
I never heard of it before now, and I would be quite happy never to hear it again.
2nd? Sweet!
Third
I know that guy on the piano! I used to take lessons with him.
Feeling patriotic this morning eh?
You may be an ex-OBC student – but were you also at West Coast? I recognized the auditorium and (I think) some of the singers.
I find it interesting that the frozen shot from the video of the Rough Riders actually doesn’t show Old Glory waving on.
I can’t believe they would even show the Rough Riders and even mention Teddy Roosevelt.
One of our darkest moments of military adventurism, of dashing Cuban and Philipino’s hopes for Freedom.
Maybe it is the fact I was not born in the USA nor did I grow up here. The mixture of Christianism and state religion has always felt, well, dirty to me.
I don’t have too much experience with other countries, but of the ones I’m familiar with, none have the fixation on their flag that the USA has. I’ve never seen regular folks in any other country raise a flag every morning on their porch or front yard.
I have no problem with people loving the land they were born in, but elevating it into a religion is a bit much for me. I did not attend school here so my opinion on the Pledge of Allegiance which I never had to pray every day is a bit warped.
While I wouldn’t go as far as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, I believe they’ve got a point.
Ricardo, I was born and grew up in the USA, I’m an umpteenth-generation American, and I agree with every word you just said.
Love our country and work for its well-being? Yes.
Believe that our country is perfect and is scared in a way that other countries are not? No.
Worship national symbols as if they were holy? God forbid.
Likewise here, too…and I’ve had ancestors in every generation since the Civil War fight under that flag (unfortunately, my family was on the wrong side of that unpleasantness in the 1860’s 😉 )
Those who are still with us today would agree that conflating the flag with the cross is the worst form of idolatry. I have a Bible (a KJV, actually!) that my father took with him to Vietnam three times. I can still see the wear where he held it open, day after day, looking for hope in a hopeless place. The pages containing Psalm 23 in particular show lots of wear. That’s more a testament of faith to me than any of the contrived crap the Fundamentalists put out.
My father refuses to set foot in a church anymore because most of the churches near him have become infested with this nonsense. He’s seen the bitter end of war too often and would be far too tempted to call bullshit on any preacher who tries to beat the drum at the pulpit.
The Fundamentalists think they’re carrying out God’s plan by shoehorning the United States into it, but they don’t see that the British tried the same thing in the 19th century, with somewhat mixed results.
I know it’s a typo, but “scared in a way that other countries are not” is spot on: The uber-patriotic set of fundamentalists is petrified that we’ll fail and prove that they’re wrong—we’re not special, not God’s chosen country, not divinely protected from the consequences of our mistakes.
I meant to type “sacred,” but it’s true that this country often acts like it’s scared in a way that other countries are not.
You mean “sacred”, right? 😛
I can see both sides to this post. First of all, I don’t really care for this site too much because it is too sardonic and too scoffing. Although on occasion it does have some good points. Many of you have gone beyond the pale and instead of being objective critics, you’ve become jaded cynics of anything related to Christianity. I for one don’t object to this video and will give this group credit for having their heart in the right place and trying to be good, decent American citizens. The cynicism of some of you has gone too far in that you automatically are hyper-critical of anything related to fundamentalists, whether there’s a legitimate reason to be or not.
Steve makes some good points. While I don’t find fault in the least for this video, I do think they are naive. But I believe their heart is in the right place and their motives are pure. The Vietnam War was a complete waste of time and effort and a total fraud. Many or most of the veterans from that war are complete nutjobs who are now drug addicts living under a bridge and have completely lost their minds. Most of those young men started out as perfectly normal guys. So, did we “stop the spread of Communism” as was the purported reason for the war? Not in the least. By the way, stopping Communism is a noble and worthy goal, but that was not the reason for the Vietnam War. That was just the propaganda that was touted so Americans would be for the war. It’s similar to the modern wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The soldiers there are not fighting for our “freedoms in America.” That is such a fraud as to be almost laughable if it weren’t so sad. History is repeating itself. We’re finding that most or many of the returning vets coming back from the Middle East wars are completely bonkers nutjobs now too. Just turn on your news tonight. If you see anything about a shooting or a killing, chances are it’s another Iraq War freak. These guys just aren’t right anymore. The military and war have turned these people into despicable human beings. And for what? They certainly aren’t fighting for our “freedoms.” If anyone still believes that propaganda they are certainly naive.
There is a reason Americans are fixated on the flag. All other countries’ national anthems focus on either an historic battle or ideals to which the country aspires, whereas the US national anthem focuses on the flag. As a result, America’s identity and ideals are inseparable from the flag.
The Star-Spangled Banner was originally Francis Scott Key’s poem, ‘The Defense of Fort McHenry’, about the British attempt to capture Baltimore in the War of 1812. With Washington DC having been literally sacked, the loss of Baltimore would have effectively ended the war for the United States. Fort McHenry, which defended Baltimore’s harbor, was the key to the defense, and it held against a determined British attack. The poem speaks of the flag on the fort still flying after an all-night bombardment by the British Navy (‘And the rockets’ red glare/the bombs bursting in air/gave proof through the night/that our flag was still there!’)
This battle was probably the last time the United States had to seriously fear military conquest and occupation. It was *the* key battle in US history between the Revolution and the Civil War. The song isn’t so much about the flag per se as it is about a desperate last stand against an invader.
While I love my country, and its anthem, tremendously, it is one of the more difficult national anthems to sing and to march to. I wouldn’t mind seeing an anthem that *did* reflect our values as a nation.
I’ve long thought that Woody Guthrie’s “This Land Is Your Land” should be our national anthem. It’s a great song, it’s easy to sing, it’s in the public domain, the words are very easy to understand, and it expresses nothing but positive values(unlike “The Star Spangled Banner,” which is, frankly, quite bellicose and jingoistic).
That wouldn’t stop whoever wanted to from singing “The Star Spangled Banner” any time they liked, of course.
Okay, I am cheesy enough to say it: I do understand, on one level, the objections to our National Anthem. That being said, I get all verklempt at every baseball game I attend or watch, when I hear the opening strains. I may object to a flag in the sanctuary, but I love it in other places (my fave being a ballpark!), and I think Citizens Bank Park in Philadelphia rocks the MOST because not only is there the flag, the Anthem, and the Phillies, but a light-up (tacky, yes!), LIBERTY BELL “rings” for every home run! So yes, I am cheesy about my country. NOT the same feeling/devotion/emotion I feel for my Savior, but in the right place, not a bad thing at all.
Um, did this sound too baseball-y for here? Oops. 😉
Interesting historical fact: In 1861, Francis Scott Key’s own grandson, Francis Key Howard, was imprisoned in Fort McHenry by America’s first dictator, dishonest Abe Lincoln, as part of his crackdown on dissidents (those who were against his illegal war of aggression).
Hey, Dungeonmaster–how many experience points is a troll worth again?
Uhhh….”Remind us where our loyalty belongs.”?? Shouldn’t our loyalty be to Christ rather than a scrap of fabric representing a flawed nation? 😕
Ugh..that part of the song really bugged me too!
Amen, Kreine, amen.
I fourth that.
Agreed. This would be a great song in a country music star’s repertoire, but it seemed really out of place to sing about our loyalties to a flag behind a pulpit.
AMEN!! What is it with people’s infatuation for the piece of fabric?? What is it with people mixing patriotism with Christianity? Patriotism is patriotism, and Christianity is Christianity, and NEVER the twain shall meet!
*End of rant* 🙂
I hate when our flag/country become the focus of our worship. The song sounds like its the flag that had made us what we are. I was at a conference where the speaker suggested not having Old Glory in our sanctuaries. There was a lot of mumbling heard in the room.
I completely agree. Our kids club at our fundy lite church used to begin every week with the pledge of allegiance. We put a stop to that this year, and no one misses it. We as believers are to be loyal to Christ’s kingdom.
I think it’s weird that many protestant churches (not just fundy ones) are happy to have a flag but would not here tell of having a cross in their church(crosses in churches – that’s a catlick thing….) It’s not just in America, it happens in Northern Ireland, where I live.
Francis Schaeffer said “We should not wrap Christianity in our national flag.” This is so true. Remember the evangelical churches preaching Romans 13 in Germany…our only allegiance should be to Christ. If our nation happens to follow Christian ethics, then all the better.
“You survived to fight again, And you always will” ❓ ❓ ❗ That was as much as I could take of that.
How do you know? How can you complain about how bad everything is on one hand and on the other say that the US will always be there? I do know one thing for sure- when Jesus sets up His kingdom, He will definitely not be waving an American flag.
What? I thought Jesus was a card carrying Republican?
The company that hosts our website has some patriotic backgrounds that I refuse to use. They are so tacky.
That’s where I had to cut it off. In spite of all the bad patriotic sermons I have endured over the years, I still can’t find anywhere in scripture where the USA is mentioned, or where the promises to Israel transferred to our share of North America. Don’t even ask a fundy preacher if those sermons work for, say, England or Brazil, The Czech Republic, or any other country.
The closest references to the US I can find are where God is not willing that any should perish, and that Christ died for the sins of THE WORLD [emphasis added] and that includes pretty much everybody.
Well, on a performance level, that was one of the better videos ever posted here. A few minor snafus, but nothing that assaulted the ears violently. However, and I’m fairly opinionated on this, I see no need for ever doing a song in worship to a flag in a church service. I’m actually against almost all patriotic songs in general in church. I’ve led songs on 4th of July weekends in our church and will include God Bless America in the worship service, but I make it the first song so it’s done and out of the way. The only reason I even include it is to not offend some in our congregation. I’m not unpatriotic, I just believe we should focus on His Kingdom, not a temporal one.
I don’t know who wrote this song, but just making words rhyme at the end of lines doesn’t work.
Also, what’s with the big present and the cutout word, “LIFE”?
The song was written by country writer Billy Dean, just FYI.
Was this a 9-11 memorial service?
If memory serves correctly this song was written in memory on 9-11-11.
One of the steps of my deliverance from fundy-dum was the realization that patriotism and loyalty to Christ are not synonymous, do not go hand-in-hand, and are certainly not on an equal footing. I now object to the flag in the sanctuary, though silently. I love my country, am so thankful to enjoy its benefits, but do understand where my true citizenship is. BTW, if Jesus belongs to either of our two big political parties, then I am a monkey’s uncle… Yes, I do know that Strangely Warmed was using sarcasm. 😉
“One of the steps of my deliverance from fundy-dum was the realization that patriotism and loyalty to Christ are not synonymous, do not go hand-in-hand, and are certainly not on an equal footing.”
Woot!! More power to you!
“I now object to the flag in the sanctuary, though silently.”
If I were you, I’d publicly object to such idolatry.
“I love my country, am so thankful to enjoy its benefits, but do understand where my true citizenship is.”
Yes! You could noy have said it better!
a, the reason I object silently is that I am mindful of the ones who are on their way out, but not at that point yet. I do not believe that flag in the sanctuary is an object of idolatry for everyone there, in fact, perhaps for few to none. It is out of place, but not worth a fight among the flock. IMO, that is. Others are entitled to theirs, and I respect them. My own son thinks it is idolatrous. And thank you for your kind words! 😉
I’m curious about the shot of the flag on the moon. Most of the IFB types I have been around, granted that’s the “we don’t need no book learnin'” type will say we have never been to the moon.
I’ve met a few of those but most of the ones I’ve known not only believe that we went to the moon, they believe that the lack of moon dust proves that the earth is only 6000 years old.
I haven’t heard this theory before.
Are they saying there’s no moon dust on earth? How do they know? There’s a great deal of dust on earth. Some of it might be from the moon.
Or are they saying the moon doesn’t have dust? That’s patently false.
The story goes that “scientists” believed that the dust on the moon would be many feet thick due to the impacts of millions of years of space debris.
But when the astronauts got there….SURPRISE! the dust was only INCHES thick! Therefore “proving” that the moon (and therefore by extension, the earth) is a lot younger than those silly scientists thought it was.
The more serious minded creation scientists tell people not to actually use this line of argument: http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cm/v15/n4/moon-dust-argument but it still shows up in sermons and whatnot.
There were actually two camps to the ‘Moon dust’ debate: one believed that the Moon was a completely solid, inert ball and the other believed that the Moon was covered in an ocean of dust, as cited.
The reality was somewhat in the middle: the Moon is covered in fine dust, but only to a depth of a few centimeters, and there are extensive lava fields and other formations that are solid rock. One problem the astronauts experienced after working on the lunar surface was the accumulation of dust on their spacesuits. It was so bad that when the Apollo 11 astronauts removed the suits, the dust circulated in the air in the lunar module and caused allergic reactions. Later missions carried a large paintbrush which the astronauts used to remove the larger concentrations of dust from their suits before reentering the LM. Aerosolized dust is considered a serious health hazard in the risk management studies for a return to the Moon.
The problem of lunar dust is further complicated by the fact that the lunar surface is a vacuum, which leads to contact welding between some of the finer particles. Even though the lunar surface is mainly fine particles, it behaves as solid ground due to the effects of the hard vacuum.
As for Moon dust on the Earth, most dust would be vaporized in the atmosphere on the way down, but we have something better. Namely, actual meteorites that originate from the surface of the Moon:
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites.htm
The lunar meteorites are spectroscopically similar to rocks returned by US and Soviet space probes in the 1960’s and 1970’s as well as modern analysis of the lunar surface.
Nothing like what’s actually in God’s universe to beat what people like to believe is in God’s universe.
Biggie G’s, this is where this site loses me. I lurk here, but very rarely post. Somehow the site seems to always turn toward the goal of glorifying evolution. Although I certainly respect your right to believe and say what you want, it’s not my cup of tea.
The site also makes me lose interest when it goes overboard and thinks we should all be good Communists and hate liberty and freedom because that’s just so passe and unhip. I mentioned a few posts back how critical I am of much of our historic and current foreign policy, but on the other hand, I realize that America has many, many wonderful things about it and has been a great example of religious and personal freedom. Many of our fine readers seem to think it’s “selfish” and uncool to value religious freedom. Weird. Very weird. Here you are on the one hand being super critical of fundamentalism because it’s too rigid and legalistic, yet many of you seem to hate America and think freedom is demode and embarrassing, especially in front of your Communistic cousins. This site seems to have a split personality.
True definition of a redneck: someone who thinks the Moon landing was faked but professional wrestling is real. 😀
This is one time I will not be critical. I love patriotic songs and patriotism. I miss hearing the American national anthem since moving to Canada. There is nothing wrong with having a patriotic service any more than having a special service on mother’s day or father’s day or Christmas. I haven’t heard this song before but I enjoyed it very much. 🙂
Christmas is a religious holiday. Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, and Flag Day are not.
Therefore a Christmas service is right and proper, but the others are confusing American culture with Christianity.
+10 for that comment Big Gary. It’s all about Jesus not card company made “holidays” or patriotism to any country – only to the Kingdom of God
To balance that out, I will now listen to John Lennon sing “Imagine”
The Friends (Quaker) hymnal actually has “Imagine” in it.
Nice!!!!
I am going to have to separate from Darrell because of the posting of contemporary music. This style of piano playing should not be aloud because it is most commonly used in CCM. Also the individuals singing used sliding to reach a note which is a vocal technique associated with rock and roll or CCM. I will now have to disavow and separate from anyone associated with this site, with Darrell, with all of you commenters, with people you are friends with, and pretty much everyone in the world. Goodbye.
Wait, and take away the coolest little icon thingy ever, the guy in the frightening cowl??? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! 😯
You’ll be baaaack! 😉
I thought this was very well sung. The kid on the right (the baritone) has a beautiful voice; as a former music teacher, I hope he pursues a musical career.
This is a decent, appropriately stirring patriotic song. That said, I see no place for it in church. “Remind us where our loyalty belongs”? If I recall correctly, the early Church had some very strong convictions about that subject, and more than a few dead bodies to show for it.
+50 😀
Dear God in Heaven, how trite are those lyrics?! And as a musician, I find it difficult to watch fundy performances because of the plodding piano and emotionless singing. Painful.
“plodding piano”, LOL!! Well, lan’ o’ Goshen! Ya sho did hit du nail on dee hayd!
Pilgrims passing through.
Politics & patriotisn are just hobby horses for fundy preachers to rally the troops around. I disliked when our old fundy church did pledges every week. US flag, Christian flag & the Bible. Just not sure the pledge of allegiance is true anymore, if it ever was. “one nation under God”, hmmmm. We have freedom and a good system of government but it’s not to be worshipped. There is and always has been corruption in government. Slavery, Indian reservations, Japanese internment camps, abortion etc…
I pay my taxes & vote. Other than that I don’t want anything to do with the government especially in relation to worship.
Straight up idolatry
The thing is most fundies I know really believe America is some sort of new Israel or new promised land specially blessed by God because of the faith of the “founding fathers.” I think there is even an evangalism team that goes around specifically furthering this idea to uninformed congregations. I love my country (in a sensible way), but these people really need to pick up a history text other than A Beka or BJU Press.
Yeah, the fundy myths about American history and the founding fathers are just absurd. I always wanted to bring a Jefferson Bible to school and shove it in their faces. I think the real reason that fundies mock the Mormons and denounce them as a cult is that they’re jealous that they didn’t think of the “Jesus came to America” thing first.
The whole claiming OT promises to Israel for America is particularly ironic. Many IFB churches are dispensational and harp on how the church is not Israel, therefore the promises to Israel (particularly the end time stuff) do not apply to the church. But its okay to apply them to a country never even mentioned in the Bible, go figure.
While I did get the whole ‘USA is a favored nation in God’s eyes’ bit in church (but not in school–I was in public school from kindergarten through grad school) I also learned that the modern State of Israel is *not* the Kingdom of Israel as described in the Bible because modern Israel functions as a secular democracy. This approach actually makes a great deal of sense, but it also pokes a gaping hole in the notion that the End Times are upon us because Israel has been restored.
If the Fundamentalists read *real* history books, they’d learn that the United States is hardly the only country to believe it was favored in God’s eyes: the German soldiers of World War I did not have ‘Gott Mit Uns’ engraved on their belt buckles for no good reason. Nor was the Tsar known as the ‘Little Father of all the Russias’ (the Big Father being God, thereby equating the Tsar with Christ himself!) just for fun. (See Also: the 19th-20th century British Empire, the 17th-18th century French Empire, the 16th century Spanish empire, etc., etc….)
This is a church hymn only if one literally worships the flag.
I was going to say that it is the rankest kind of idolatry, but I see that several earlier-rising sisters and brothers have already pointed that out.
Loved the song! I’m proud of our country! I served her in the military, and am proud of that. I’m delighted that God has seen fit to bless this country. I think it is simply fantastic that these young people sang this beautiful, uplifting song in church. I think it is not only fitting and proper to be sung in a church, but God-honoring as well.
God bless America! God bless these precious young people! God bless this church and its leaders for allowing this song to be sung in their sanctuary.
I only wish I could have been there!
Thank you for your service.
I am thankful for the country in which I live, and I owe a debt of gratitude to the sacrifces men & women such as yourself (and their families) for the privilege of the freedoms I enjoy.
Thank you for your service.
Flag-honoring =/= God-honoring.
Indeed. There is a place to honor the flag of your country, and there is a place to honor God, however you see Him/Her/It/Them. They are almost never the same place.
Thank you for your service, greg. I never served in the military however I live and work near (sometimes on) a military installation. I am constantly amazed at the ordeals that service members and their families have to go through. Their toughness and dedication is an inspiration to me. I don’t know your branch of service, rate, rank or actual name but I appreciate your willingness to sign up and go.
Thank you, greg, for your service, for the hardships you suffered, and for your patriotism. I am proud of YOU, and pleased that you are here.
I am a presently serving member of the Canadian military and love my country and am grateful for my freedom. However, I do not believe that this song belongs in a worship service. It ascribes to the symbol of the flag things which should be ascribed to God – particularly in the context of worship. The irony of course is that fundys won’t sing CCM that directly honours God but will sing a song that honours a flag. Bizarre.
Greg, whenever I see a military man I make sure to tell him a hearty “You’re Welcome.” You’re welcome for me having a job and supporting you government workers. Thanks to me, you can go about killing innocent civilians and children and actually get paid for it. I hope you’re grateful. If it weren’t for productive citizens like me, you might actually have to go out and get a real job and not kill people.
Sheila, if you were actually sober when you posted this, you are more than welcome to give up the freedoms their sacrifice provides you.
We recently almost had a church split over whether or not to display the American flag and the flag of Israel on our stage. Our church is NOT a fundy church, but before our old pastor left (went to jail) they displayed both flags. The new pastor took them down. A very passionate faction of the church protested. It was ugly. So many stupid things act as distractions from what is really important. {sigh} 😥
The flag of ISRAEL??? 😯
Wow, that’s a new one on me (for a church in the U.S.).
Some churches are very much “into” supporting Israel. This one just took it that much farther.
Darrell has featured quite a few churches with the Star of David flag prominently displayed from the pulpit/podium. I think probably mostly in various videos, but I know I’ve seen it. I think there was even one that had it on the communion table in front of the pulpit (on a non-communion event).
WOW 😯
I like patriotic songs, and I like seeing the flag on the platform. To me it symbolizes why I am free to worship when/where/how I want in the first place. This song definitely is flag worship. But seriously? I’m probably more in the camp of “Who cares?”
Agree
When I was a child I went to Western Hills Baptist Academy. It was started by J.R. Church. He had a television programme called prophesy in the news. The school and church had American flags at every turn. We were brainwashed to believe that God had chosen America and we were in the end times. Up until I was 15 and went to public schools I thought that patriotism and Christianity were together. Thanks to my mom a history professor and some knowlegeble teachers I know they are separate. I know that we are an arrogant bunch of assholes to so boldly believe that we are part of biblical prophecy and God has somehow chosen america for something grand in his plan. History will show us like any other great empire once grand but died from its excesses and belief.in its grandeur. I am a veteran and things like this video, american flags in church, and patriotic crap for sale at the christian bookstore make me throw up in my mouth a lot. My faith is so much more bigger than my country. And should be.
Ironically, my experience as a kid in fundamentalism was the exact opposite. I always heard that America wasn’t mentioned in end-times prophecy so it would most likely be destroyed by the time it all happens.
Of course God has chosen America. All of it.
And God has plans.
As soon as the rest of America comes through the Rio Grande, and we establish God’s own Spanish as the language of choice… Then you will see God’s plan for this country, this continent and this world REALLY come to fruition.
A Dios sea la honra
I’ll see it first. I live right on the Rio Grande. 😉
A race between there and San Diego, where most of my family is. The conquistadores didn’t die out…they just haven’t finished yet. 😉
Ricardo, every DAY now I look for your name among my other favorites. THIS POST ROCKS. 😀
Ricardo, I get in trouble every time I say something like that. 🙂 But, it’s true.
I love America, am a very patriotic person, am proudly married to a soldier, and hope I never stop getting goosebumps when I hear the national anthem.
With that said, it has nothing to do with my Christianity and my primary loyalty is to Christ, not America. I agree with Tammy above who mentioned seeing the flag in the sanctuary reminds her of how she is free to worship as she pleases, but I will never be part of a church who worships the flag like fundies do. =P
Patriotism is really something that is from the heart. It is immature to judge another person by how much/little they demonstrate their patriotism. Most Americans are very grateful to be in a free country, able to worship, work and play as we see fit. I enjoyed this song, not that I agree with all the words, but it was nicely done. That being said, I don’t believe the whole service was devoted to this topic, it was just one song.
In the past LBC has had “I love America” Sundays and patriotic cantatas during services.
Church is where we gather to worship our God and Savior – not our country. Governments come and go, but our God is forever.
I had a dear old friend, a World War II Air Force vet, who was a participant in the bombing of Dresden. He never would talk about it.
One Sunday some years ago, he happened to attend an Independence Day Weekend service at the Baptist church pastored by his fundamentalist son. The whole thing was dedicated to God and Country, America as the new Israel, the whole nine yards. He was so sickened by it he told me it was all he could do to restrain himself from getting up and walking out.
That is truly heartbreaking.
I’ve had several thoughts run through my head as I listened and watched the video and then read the comments.
The Bible should be the manual on how churches are run and what is done. When the Bible talks about singing and songs, it says (Eph 5:19) that we are to make melody “to the Lord” and we are to speak in song to other believers. A similar passage in Colossians says a similar thing (Col 3:16). I don’t think that a patriotic song is therefore appropriate in church.
I didn’t like the LBC version of the song; they seem to be half-way toward CCM; either embrace it fully or shun it — their half-and-half attitude irritates me.
It used to be that US schools taught a good view of the US, and taught patriotism, and said the pledge of allegiance to the flag. As the schools have neglected that duty, and Christians pulled out of public schools to start their own schools, they taught that patriotism in their schools. I have no problem with this, and I wish the public schools would return to the practice. But I do have to say that the pledge of allegiance at church or church events is probably out of place. School, yes. Church, no. We belong to Him that saved us, even if our country is no more, and it is wrong to equate salvation with our citizenship.
I never got the impression from any preacher I’ve heard in any church that they think the US is perfect (as some on here claimed). I **DO** think that the US has been blessed by God, and we should be thankful for His blessings.
Where in the U.S. do schools not teach patriotism, or not say the Pledge of Allegiance?
I’ve visited a fair number of public schools in the last few years, and every one of them displayed the U.S. flag, urged their students to be patriotic, and said the Pledge of Allegiance in school and at parents’ meetings and community events.
I think it’s more Fundy fantasy that American public schools are somehow anti-American. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Obviously the people who believe/spout this fantasy haven’t been in the elementary school that I work in. Like clockwork every morning, “I pledge allegiance …..”. This, in my opinion is where it belongs, not in church!
Maybe they do; I haven’t been in public schools since I graduated, and that was a long time ago. I don’t remember saying the Pledge of Allegiance after about 3rd grade. I don’t recall any specific patriotic teaching — I’m not counting patriotic holidays; I mean a general attitude/teaching to love one’s country). I admit that my impression of modern schools comes from hearing preaching in fundamental churches about the sorry state of public schools.
My kids are in public elementary school right now. They said they sometimes say the pledge, especially on special occasions, but certainly not every day.
Biggie G’s, ok, ok, I admit it – you reeled me in. Of course I now have to ask the obvious question: I have to assume you are being super trollish and using great hyperbole and wit when you say this?? “I think it’s more Fundy fantasy that American public schools are somehow anti-American. Nothing could be farther from the truth.”
No one could in real life could really be that naive to actually believe what you said, could they?
Are those people or statues sitting in the choir loft? 🙄
Everyone knows that commandment #1776 states:
“Thou shalt pledge allegence and sing songs to the flags that shalt dwell on the holy platforms in the houses of our Lord, along with the holy white piano.”
There has been some effort by some hooligans to remove ‘white’ from this commandment, but these efforts have failed. Praze the Lard! Honolulu, I want to go there!
When I was a kid, I always wanted a white baby grand. My fiance almost bought me one instead of an engagement ring, but decided he should let me pick out my own piano. I’m so glad he did, because SFL has ruined white pianos for me. I never thought of it before, but looking back, they *are* ubiquitous in fundy institutions!
I think it’s only in certain circles of fundydom. The churches I’ve been in were usually small and had uprights – often old and in need of tuning! I’m pretty sure most of the churches I’ve been part of would have thought white pianos ostentatious and showy (and maybe even tacky).
Christian Fundamentalism and Neo-Conservative philosophy are incestuous kissing cousins.
I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t like to be the one to get up and sing a song that has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity in my church. You may as well sing The Itsy Bitsy Spider. Granted I am Canadian. I love my country and it’s people in lieu of the flag. Even as a military member, proud of my service, I don’t see how singing about it is an act of worship. Doesn’t mean the song wouldn’t be appropriate at another time or place.
Because we all know that in the throne room of heaven on the right side of the throne will be the organ and Old Glory and over on the left side will be the piano and The Christian Flag…and we will worship Jesus in English only and there will only be hymns! AMEN
Jesus was a REPUBLICAN
Dude with the glasses has a nice voice…smooth like Basco
OMG! What exact liberties are these idiots convinced are being attacked? If they think it’s the liberty to be dumbasses, they seem to be pretty unencumbered by any regulations or laws to wallow in their own isolated stupidity. Good freaking grief.
Well said!
Darrell, thanks for posting another video to go dislike. Need to get those dislike stats up on these dopes.
Is it just me, or does the young lady singing look like she’s in pain?
So, since patriotism=Godliness, then doesn’t that make our Founding Fathers a group of traitors who should be reviled? Didn’t they already have a government and the Union Flag? (The Union Jack name and flag came in 1801)
We call it a Revolution because there was a revolt. Against the legal government. That makes them traitors before they became heroes.
PLEASE–do not blast my patriotism, I love the US. I just want to point out what I see as a serious flaw in the logic of patriotism vs. Godliness.
It’s a day or 2 later, and I’m still offended they had the temerity to sing a song like this in a church, as part of what sure looks like a worship service. Shame on whomever did this.