121 thoughts on “The Twelve Years Of Deputation”

  3. I’m sure this was funny but I couldn’t make out most of the words. If someone would like to list the 12 things, please do so!

    Aha a Monday challenge!

    2. Here we go. I got all of them but one
      12 crying babies
      11 used tea bags
      10 bouts of swine flu
      9 bad projectors
      8 missions classes
      7 missed meetings
      6 lasagna dinners
      5 extra pounds
      4 flat tires
      3 bad directions
      2 chicken pox? That’s the one I couldn’t get
      And a 28-page questionnaire.

      The fact that most of these things have an element of truth in them- especially the used tea bags- demonstrates many of the problems in Fundyism, although I’m sure whoever wrote the song didn’t mean for it to come out that way.

      2. I heard 8 Missions Closets as well. When that one came around the actor stated something about that he didn’t know plaid was in style.

        1. My church has had a missions closet forever. Each Christmas the church has a missions closet gift party to stock it with practical things like linens, first aid kits, personal items, some clothes, toys. When missionaries come they are given a number of points to “spend” based upon the number of family members. Ours is well done. No used tea bags.

      3. Yes, it is definitely “chicken pox” – see him scratching…

        Correction for #7; it’s “7 forgotten meetings” rather than “missed meetings” (at least the first time around)

  6. In our case we managed to find the thirteen unpublished rules in each church: from parking in the invisibly marked but nevertheless reserved parking spot, welcoming someone with a hug, having a meaningful conversation with THAT parishoner, commenting on the hideous carpet, laughing while at the pulpit, joking with the kids, not to mention the sins we found out AFTER leaving, like objections about our attires, too much hair, not enough, our female members smiling too much, who knows!

    1. That’s really sad. How can they expect you to know things when you’re a visitor? Nevertheless they do, and it’s one thing that always frustrates me. Like when I was working and a change was made on my day off and no one bothered to notify me. When I did something the way we’d always done it I was told rudely that they were doing it this way now! Why can’t people just kindly inform you of the change?

      In your case I suspect it was just so they could find an excuse not to take you on as missionaries. 🙄

    2. I participated in a study done after a citywide evangelization campaign. The thousands of people who made professions of Faith during the campaign were farmed out to the various local churches.

      We came by one, three and six months later to see how it was going.

      The new converts were overwhelmed. They came in with the wrong clothes, could not learn “christianese” fast enough to understand what the pastor or the parishoners were talking about, and kept violating all the unwritten rules I speak about.

      In the end, less than 10% of those converted at the mass rallies were still attending churches six months after the fact.

      I have learned since that this is normal. The mass rallies seem to be more about ego, power trips, posturing, than about reaching and keeping lost souls.

      The travelling musical groups -such as the one above- serve as a welcome break from/for the MoG pontificating for one service.

      We found many people in the congregations thanking us for the respite we gave them.

      1. That’s interesting Ricardo. I’ve heard those stats before, but they are always presented as though the professions are entirely false and it’s the fault of the evangelist. But I don’t doubt that a lot of sincere believers are put off from church fellowship because of a cold reception by the brethren and the rules that they were never told about – they feel cheated, and give up on Church, not God.

        1. Correct. Very few of us have left because we no longer believe in Jesus. Instead we are leaving the churches we no longer feel we can worship with.

      2. Ricardo, fascinating study… shows the utter barrenness of the Great Commission in these churches; new converts are supposed to be trained, not judged. Clothing commends us not to God; it is the heart. Shame on all who judge others by their clothing… especially a new convert. That’s what the “training” part of the Great Commission. Shame on any who would look down on others because they don’t know “the lingo”.

        Unwritten rules are a disgrace.

        I would point out that, as a visitor, commenting on the “hideous carpet” is in bad taste, unless a church member mentions it first.

      3. A fundy-ish friend of my daughter really wanted to take her to his church, and at the time, I was all for it. This is when she was a teenager and “in trouble”–I used to joke that if Jimmy Swaggart himself converted her, I would just kiss him. So I thought this boy was great. (I had already hollered uncle!)

        Later, she told me he wouldn’t take her to his church, since “the girls in the church” would be mean to her, and he knew they would judge her appearance, hair, clothes, and would call her a slut. He said it would do more harm than good, and likely make her angry (true). I was startled at how honest he was about it, but very sad that “witnessing” had come to that, and hadn’t changed much since *I* was a hippie teenager and rejected out-of-hand also. 🙁

        He is a preacher now, and she is an agnostic who married another one.

        I hope as a preacher, he remembers what he told her.

    4. Only 13? Every church we went to (which was every time my dad got mad at the preacher) had at least 2 dozen. Every sermon was a chance for more rules.

  7. Twelve crying babies, Eleven used tea bags, 10 bouts of swine flu, 9 bad projectors, 8 missions classes, 7 forgotten meetings, 6 lasagna dinners, 5 EXTRA POUNDS. 4 flat tires, 3 bad directions, 2 chicken pox, and a 28 page questionnaire.
    Had to listen a few times, but I’m pretty sure this is what they’re saying given their comments and gestures after the items.

    1. Thank you! I caught only the first one about the questionnaire. They were so busy acting dramatic they didn’t enunciate their words.

      Oh I see Darren above also listed them, thanks to both of you. :mrgreen:

  8. Wait a minute…I know several people in this video. 😕 I see Beverly Van Gelderen and the guy leading the group is one of her sons (not sure which one) and several others I won’t mention by name. Seems to be from Falls Baptist Church (pastored by Wayne Van Gelderen Jr.) and I believe the guys are from their school, Baptist College of Ministry. I know one of the singers and that is where he went/goes to school.

    1. 😮
      I thought I recognized one of the folks in the group too…. if that’s Baptist College of Ministry, then yes, it’s the same guy… weird 😛

    2. So this is somewhat recent? I just assumed it was from about 30 years ago because it is exactly the same stuff they did back when I was that age… Wow. Time really has stood still there, hasn’t it?

      1. “Time really has stood still there, hasn’t it?”

        Yep, and I am pretty sure that’s wxactly what they are going for.

  10. That video gives me chills. The hammy lowbrow but clean performance comedy and the melodramatic piano brings back terrible memories of traveling college groups coming through our church, or in some cases, going to youth events in other churches with college groups. When I was in high school, I couldn’t put three words together without stuttering. I didn’t talk much to friends, much less to strangers. Nevertheless here would come the college group and they were obligated (I guess) to strike up conversations with every high-school-age kid in the church. I would try to talk with them and be stuttering all over myself and I would get these pained looks. I caught many of them looking around hoping their group-mates wouldn’t see them talking to this loser- me. I ended up going to the one Fundy U where the students in the group wouldn’t give me the time of day. That was a welcome change from the others.

      1. I can soooooo relate to this! Every time a travelling college group came to visit they split up and hunted the teenagers down after the service so they could make determined, overly-smiley small talk about school, hobbies, and college plans. I always tried my best to hide because I HATED talking to strangers, and I was very, very shy and withdrawn. Plus the conversations felt forced and unreal. It wasn’t genuine connections, but … plastic. I don’t know how else to describe it.

        I often got the impression that my mother would looove for me to join such a group someday, and just the thought of having to make all that small talk made me sweat.

    2. Darren, that’s a good, yet sad story. Sounds like you were more forced to oblige their “chat” than they truly were.

  11. This is what passed for good old ENTERTAINMENT in my little teenage world. Since we weren’t allowed to go to movies and tv was not acceptable, we would look forward to these things with great anticipation. It seems like I have come a long way, baby. I didn’t hate this video too much,(It didn’t give me eye twitches like anything from FBC, Hammond does) but it has been a lot of years since I last heard a men’s college group sing. I used to think they were so ~dreamy~ (all of them, from any college.) There was just something about a guy in a suit and tie with a nice whitewall haircut I guess.

    1. Some of them were totally sold on themselves, too. By the time I was a senior at HAC, and had gone through all four years with most of the guys in the then “premiere” guys group, I was no longer so in awe. I remember when I was student-teaching at HBHS, and that group came for chapel. The high school girls who were disgusted by anything HAC were totally bored, but the ones who intended to GO to HAC someday were all in love, and getting AUTOGRAPHS. Yes. From these bumpkins with whom we took classes! One of them teasingly asked me, Come on, Miss So-and-So, don’t you want my autograph?” What I wanted to reply would have gotten me campused. At least. 😕

      1. I can totally see that happening. I ran into a singing group once from HAC when we were in Oklahoma City. I saw the little mini-bus at the hotel-like-place we were staying. I decided to go and say hello. (I was wearing jeans and a little tee shirt, looking mighty fine if I do say so myself) They looked at me like I was the whore of Babylon. When I mentioned that my husband and I used to go to HAC one of them looked at me and actually said, “What happened?” The arrogance of those bumpkins is unbeliveable. (Oh and I didn’t have to worry about getting campused or worse when I answered him so… ummm… well, I think he learned a few new words.) j/k

        2. The nerve! Just because you were wearing pants he asks what happened as though you’d become a horrible backslider. I would’ve been so hard pressed not to let him have it.

          However to maintain some semblance of calmness I’d have bought a bit of time by looking him right in the eye and asking, “What do you mean, what happened?” and made him answer!

          “Well, um… um… you’re wearing PANTS, you know… um…!!” as he turned fourteen shades of red 😳

          And then I’d continue to look him in the eye and ask, “Do you have a problem with that?”

          “Well… um, um, well… you know… um… women aren’t supposed to wear pants! Um….”

          “Says who?” I’d demand.

          “Um… God??” 😳

          Fundies! They will never change! Bye bye! :mrgreen:

        3. I think I said something like, “We got a taste of REAL Christianity and it was irresistable to us.” Of course the glare was enough to end that line of thought.

        4. “What Happened?”
          “Oh, I found that Christ is not in the HAC box after all. I don’t know who/what you have locked up in there but it’s not Jesus Christ. I’ll put you all on my prayer list in hopes that someday the Holy Spirit opens your blinded eyes. Have a nice day.”

        5. But Don, I feel certain that then they would have killed our Sims, claiming she was Duh Debbul. 🙁

        6. I was asked the “what happened” question by a Peter Ruckman disciple at a gas station one time. What happened? I am no longer wearing my Christianity on a sleeve, and now I am doing my prayers in a closet like Jesus said. That’s what happened.

        7. @Sims – they may or may not have been arrogant. It’s a fair question — if you and the hubby went to HAC, presumably you agreed with their standards, and what you were wearing clearly isn’t HAC standards. So, I don’t think the question is arrogant in and of itself; it is fair.

          A good answer may be “we decided to start living by Biblical standards instead of man-made standards.”

    2. I still think that this is decent entertainment; it probably cuts pretty close to the bone for some churches.

  12. This song is sponsored by, “the 1611, Independent, Fundamental, Baptist Church of Perpetual deputation.”
    Year 1: “We have been on deputation for a little over three months now and have raise about 7% of our support.
    Year 2: “Glad to see you all once again. This month completes our furst full year on deputation and the Lord has really blessed us. We are getting closer to our goal and we hope to soon be on the field we have been Called™ to. We have 25%of our support raised at this time.
    Year 5: “It’s really good to see you folks again. You all have been such a blessing to our family with your faithful support. Time are tough and it seems that some churches just don’t want to be a part of God’s work in bringing a good Bible teaching, old fashioned, standards keeping, sin hating, 1611 King James preaching, Independent Fundamental Baptist Church to the area of Billings Montanna. We are asking our most faithful Church Supporters to see if they can’t discern God’s will and step out in faith and increase or support so that we might get to this, our mission field as soon as possible.”
    Year 6:“Dear Church Family, we find that the door to Billings has been shut by God’s hand and we will no longer be going to that field. We have been offered a pastorate in Mayberry, NC and we have prayed about it earnestly and believe it is God’s will that we take this Church. There are only three families now attending. The fields around this little church are “white unto harvest.” We are writing to you to plead for your continued support as we begin to build this work. It may be three years before we have enough members to support this as a full time ministry so until them we humbly request that your continue to support us with your prayers and financial support as we take on this ministry by faith.”
    In Christ,
    The Gantry’s
    Sending church: Wormwood Independent Baptist Church of Perpetual Deputation, Ark.

    1. Had a guy come through our church who had been on deputation 5 YEARS, and was only like 50%. I was a teenager at the time and remember feeling so bad for the guy and his wife.
      Never heard what happened to them.

      Sad.

    2. It’s so true. I’ve known a few missionaries who never make it to the field because the deputation years kills them. I wish they would revamp their thinking on how to support missionaries on the field. But what am I thinking?? Head-bang-on-wall. Revamp their thinking?? Never!

      1. Exporting the IFB?
        What were you thinking? 😯
        Just think how much better the cause of Christ is served with all those IFB failures to launch than if they had made it to the field. **shudder**

        1. Actually more IFB missionaries should get to the field. It might change the churches back home when they return. When they get to whatever country, they immerse in the culture, they get around true Christians, and they are far removed from the fake fundyism back home. I’ve known quite a few that get there and realize what a joke that fundy Christianity is when they get a congregation of true and faithful believers that seek to be Christ like.

          So I say send more of them to the field where it will change them and then send them back home as missionaries to the IFB.

        2. @Michael, that change is not guaranteed, unfortunately. There are typical IFB churches near two of the RAF/USAF bases here in England. There are more, but I have heard of these two and visited one of them. That one was started by missionaries that have been here in the UK for 30 years. He still over-aliterates every sermon, he still has a Georgia accent though he was born and raised in Michigan. 30 years!! Why doesn’t he sound like a Brit? Because IFB preachers sound like the South, don’t they? She still wears denim and khaki skirts, but at least she calls her husband by his name and doesn’t call him “Preacher.” They are KJV to the core. As of now, they have been back in the States for 2 years trying to get their support level raised and set up a sponsor to comply with the new visa laws in England. Maybe after a certain point these IFB missionaries who can’t seem to get to the field should take that as a sign from God: “I don’t really want you to go” and not opposition from the devil…and go find what God really wants them to do! Our base chapel is serving our military community very, very well. And there are good churches in the towns nearby, believe it or not. Yup, even England has some awesome churches!

        3. Michael, that was my wife and I. But we did go overseas with a non-denominational organization, so that definitely helped contribute to our de-fundying.

      2. @escapee – very, very true. So much of IFB-dom uses the GOB (good ol’ boy) network when the focus should be on truth and the Word of God.

        A missionary often cannot even obtain a hearing, not to mention support, unless he is either personally known to the pastor, or personally known by someone the pastor trusts. In addition, so many churches only support missionaries $30 – $40 a month, and have for DECADES. Hey! Ever heard of INFLATION! Add to that soaring costs of living abroad, and it’s no wonder that missionaries can hardly get the support they need. A missionary should count on at least $100 to $300 a month per church. And churches should consider increasing the missionaries’ support just as they (hopefully) increase the pastor’s support.

  13. best quote was the offhand remark, “i didn’t know that was in style” after the 8 missions closets line.

    “no, buddy, you wouldn’t know that. even if it were in style…”

  14. Darrell, you obviously have no clue about what mission work is like. 😉

    I just thought I’d say that and get it over with.

  15. This was pretty funny. I enjoyed watching it.

    The most memorable thing I got on deputation was a used stick of deodorant.

    Seriously, most missions closets that I went to had clothes that looked like they had been dug out of a dumpster behind a Salvation Army store.

    1. A USED stick of… I am GAGGING here. What kind of a person would give a … I am sorry. My mind just boggled so completely I have to close my eyes and do deep breathing…. 😯

      1. A few years ago our house burned down in the wildfires in California. The first few months after that we spent the majority of our time going through bags of basically trash that people would bring and leave at our door. We got worn out, torn clothes that weren’t even sizes anyone in our family wore, looked like they were just shoveled out of someone’s dirty closet, dirty socks and once one shoe in the bag. We got broken appliances, and smelly furniture. It was such a hassle getting rid of it. I didn’t feel “unfortunate” or “disadvantaged” until I had to deal with all that. My mom told us the used teabag story many times. Now if we are getting rid of stuff that is one thing, but if we are donating to someone (like a missionary or orphanage or home building project) we give them stuff we wouldn’t mind having ourselves.

        1. My ex MIL (missionary wife) told me stories of mission closets that would indeed make you gag. But to prove that I can tell a good story about my exes: she went by before Christmas one year to see if she could get a couple of pieces of clothing for her growing kids, so they could have something nice (even though, as she told me, she would more likely walk out with that “one little cookpot with the busted hannel” [sic]). She picked up some piece of clothing that was worn slam out, torn, and stained, and she put it back down. The lady manning the closet told her she should be grateful for that clothing. My MIL asked her if she herself would be grateful if she unwrapped that sorry thing Christmas morning. The lady then sniffed loudly and told her beggars should not be choosers.

          My MIL swore she’d never rely on such mean-spirited charity again — and coming from her own church! — so she promptly went home and started a home business. This was in the late 60s, early 70s, so she was kind of a pioneer.

        2. I can’t imagine people donating broken crap. How utterly self-deceived must you be to think that someone else wants your worn-out, stained clothes or broken appliances?

          And the “beggars can’t be chosers” line? Wow. So supposedly they are “honoring” the missionaries by having a closet for them, but then they scorn and belittle them for using it or for prefering something that’s NOT garbage? It’s utter hypocrisy: “We honor and respect you. Now take our old, ugly clothes that we don’t want anymore and be grateful.” I guess this is the natural result when people claim one thing but live another way completely, like claiming to be loving when they’re so totally not.

        3. Such sad and pathetic stories both of them. One thing I’ll say for my old church in Michigan, they did treat missionaries right. Whatever you got them had to be brand new. I felt too much pressure from that because I did have some used stuff that was good! But to give them some useless piece of shlock, that’s terrible! 👿

        4. I have to say, Catholics are pretty nice to the missionary sects, like Mother Teresa’s Missionaries of Charity, or the Franciscans. I think its the gravitas of the founders; not giving money to Franciscans would be like dissing St Francis! It is understood that they are part of this long tradition and they seem to get more respect because of that, even from ordinarily greedy types. Also, various orders of nuns working in ghettos and barrios and hospices and such? They open the wallets for them, wide wide wide. I find that interesting, since in most other respects, Catholics do not donate nearly as much to the Church as Protestants do.

    2. Like I stated earlier in this thread…I know a lot people in this video. I also know that someone on deputation from this church received USED tea bags so that was the only time I actually laughed during this video (even though it is a pathetic story) because I remembered hearing about it! :mrgreen: Apparently, the woman who gave them the tea bags always saves them to give to visiting missionaries, evangelists, etc. I would hate to see what she serves them for dinner! 😯

      1. Where do these HORRIBLE stingy people even GET these ideas? How degrading! How that woman needed to be TOLD! Ugh. 👿

        1. I don’t know…can’t believe the nerve of some people. I was always told to never donate anything you would not be thrilled to receive yourself!

  16. As much as I would like to comment on deputation, I really just enjoyed the song. All comedy is based in truth…or something like that.

    The 28 page questionnaire is the one that I laughed (cringed) at because we heard of all the different “inquiries” from all the different “camps.”

    Can you imagine the apostle Paul answering a questionnaire?

    1. Yes, there is a sad truth of a lack of something-or-other in the “28-page questionnaire”.

  18. I may be the only (or at least the most) ignorant of the bunch but–what is a deputation? I am not familiar with the term.

    1. It’s when a missionary goes from church to church to church to ask for support to go to the mission field. He presents his work through slides and gives his testimony and usually has his wife and/or children sing a special. The idea is to burden the church so they’ll take him on for support. Hopefully he will at least receive traveling expenses and a meal, and a place to spend the night, and a love offering to help them along. 😕

        1. I went to a meeting once that took 3 hours of driving time there and 3 hours back. I had to stay overnight and buy a couple of meals. The pastor wanted me to teach a Sunday School class and then present our ministry. I left with a $10 love offering and a line about wishing they could support missionaries, but they can’t. And that wasn’t so long ago. Ummm…why did you ask me to waste my time and gas to come down here then? Good grief.

        2. @Michael; if someone asks you to come, they should cover your expenses and provide a love-offering, or do without your presence.

          But, if a missionary invites himself, he should not expect any of the above.

  20. As a missionary I learned to be angry most of the time. No love offerring, a love offering that is not enough to eat at McDonalds, mission cuboards that made you feel like a bum, looked down on because “you are just a missionary, sleeping in the car with the family because you can’t afford a hotel, driving 5 or more hours just to find out you are filling in for the pastor (who is vacationing), going into debt because most churches will not come close to covering expenses, the congregation avoiding you because you are “just there for money”, being called a “moochanary”, having the pastor give your offering to another visitor, being in a foreign country and no one in your home church ever attempt to call or write you.

    Once I preached in a church and said that many churches don’t give love offering but “I really don’t like you offerings. After I preached the man in charge (pastor was on vacation) gave me a check that once again didn’t cover expenses.

    Needless to say, how can people laugh at a song with so much truth. Maybe its because they get off on mistreating missionaries.

    1. This is really terrible. I knew deputation could be hard but not that it was anything like this.

      I have heard of cases where the missionary has been on the field and churches suddenly decide to drop his support for whatever reason. They stop getting as much support so they will drop one of the missionaries so there he is out on the field and getting less money. That’s really lousy IMO.

      As for the used tea bags and all the other shlock they foist off on missionaries and expect them to be grateful I can only think that God sees it all and God is not pleased with it. And what you sow you will reap! 👿

  21. Ok, what is a used teabag? I know this sounds ignorant, but you can’t seriously be telling me that people would give another person their tea bags after they’ve been used.

    1. it is exactly that – a used tea bag. Normally given by a piece of trash that pretends to be a Christian.

      1. I am appalled and disgusted by that. What’s even worse is that people can put it into a song. That means that it happens VERY frequently. What on earth are people thinking. I go to a “Fundy” church and I don’t think anyone I know would even consider doing something so revolting and humiliating. I’m just shocked.

    3. I posted about this earlier in the thread…I know the people in this video and knew one of the missionaries sent out from this church…and there were actually given used tea bags by a woman who *always* saved her tea bags to give visiting missionaries, evangelists, etc.! 😯 So yes, I am quite certain that is why that is in the song! 😕

  22. Anyone have any idea how many churches a missionary needs to visit in order to get one supporting church? My thinking is perhaps 1 out of 10 churches a missionary visits will end up supporting him. Not basing this on anything, sort of just guessing, so I could be way off.

    1. It really depends on the missionary. I know of a missionary that was able to raise his support in 11 months. But that is highly unusual. I know most missionaries can expect to be on deputation 2-3 years. And most of those missionaries are in 2-3 churches a week.

        1. Ever have those moments when you wonder, “What does Jesus think about this?” This brought one on… sigh. 🙁

      2. Being fundy-lite for quite a while, my husband found it hard to tell what the missionary was really like until they came to the church. Some people from certain mission boards were awesome, but others got in the pulpit and said things like “There are no Bible-preaching churches in San Diego.” (Yes, I heard that exact one.) As my husband realized more and more how divisive the KJV-only position was, he refused to support any missionary that held to that position.

        He also tried not to schedule any missionaries to speak unless we were actually financially able to take on another missionary. We didn’t want to have them come in knowing that there was NO possibility that we could support them. There was the occasional missionary though who would say, “I know you’re not able to take on anyone right now, but we’re going to be in your area so we’d still appreciate it if you could have us in for Sunday PM.”

    2. We’ve been in Africa for 7 years and went to almost 200 churches on our 2 years of deputation. More than half of them support us now.

      Guess I pitched it well, Don 😉

      I actually don’t have bad stories of missions closets and tea bags….churches treated us pretty well. Yet, it was the crazy personalities of many of the pastors that sent me searching til I found sites like this.

      Thankfully, being across the ocean, I can try to avoid being like “them”

    3. 1 in 10 churches actually visited taking you on for support is probably pretty close for most people.
      Don is right about the sales pitch. After 5 years, I have come to realize that I am not a good salesman. We are trying to get to Amazonas, Brazil. We don’t sing or have cute little babies. (The youngest is 17 and I have heard cute little ones help)I am not an exiting emotional speaker. We have also been told we aren’t real missionaries because I will use my abilities as an aircraft mechanic and teach children and children’s ministry.

      One of our problems is because of our backgrounds, we have mostly fundy or close to fundy contacts. I have gotten some interesting questionnaires, most of which aren’t to see if you might be a good fit, but to prove you aren’t.

      My favorite is a friend who got the question asking “what the wife wears to bed”, to be sure pants are never worn. I’m afraid my answer would have gotten me into trouble with my board and home church.

      1. I wonder if the answer to the question about what your wife wears to bed was, “nothing but a smile”, if that would be considered good or bad by the questioning board? It is none of their stinking business to be asking that question, bunch of perverts!!! 👿

      2. As someone who served with a mission board but not as a church planter, I’ve heard the “not a real missionary” thing too. Never mind we were going to a place where being a church planter would have gotten us kicked out of the country…

      3. Ah, yes, the famous “weed-out” questionnaire… trying to get you to trip up in some minor thing so that they don’t need to support you.

      4. The famous “what does your wife wear to bed?” question… how to answer…

        – “You’re a pervert, and I’m not telling!”
        – “Whatever her husband wants”
        – “Whatever her husband approves of”
        – “This answer will only be provided if the pastor, pastoral staff, and deacons each tell what his own wife wears to bed.”

  23. From my brief time in an IBF church, the church and missionaries on deputation always bragged about how they were “doing it right” in regards to missions, which is what this video is referencing. They would sneer at the SBC model of centralizing money collection and sending out missionaries.

    Being a missionary on the field sounds rough, but deputation sounds a lot rougher.

    1. As much as I cringe at the “centralizing money collection” it does work right if it is done correctly. But independent fundamentalists shy away from this for some reason. Control?
      Plus when you hear about churches that only can give $25, but support 200 missionaries it just doesn’t make sense. Is it just to fill a wall with pictures? Some guy (or gal) would have to visit ALOT of churches in order to get the money they need to stay on the field.
      Shoes can do the math, but it seems there is a better way…

      1. I’ve thought this system was ridiculous from the first time I heard of it when we began going to an IFB church. Some missionaries were being supported at $500 a month, if they were “one of ours” someone who had grown up in the church, others for $100, some for $50 or even less. How silly to support so many for so little each. It was more confusing as no one could name all of our missionaries, there were at least 50 couples and families on deputation and on the field at any given time. They want you to pray for them but it becomes a daunting task to pray for so many.

        And when they come back on furlough which is supposed to be a time of rest, they spend the whole time traveling to supporting churches to give reports and hopefully pick up a bit more support.

        I thought a long time ago they should revamp this whole thing and have each church provide 100% of a missionary’s support. This way we may be supporting only 5 couples or families but you’d really know each one. You’d know their kids and you’d be far better able to pray for them. But since it’s already been established this other way it would be very difficult to change it.

        1. hmmm. Change = bad word.

          I agree with your assessment. Plus when a family comes back on “furlough” I think it should be for them to recharge, rest, etc, not travel the country side for a year wasting more resources/time/etc.

        2. Before i left the fundy church they had people from the church, “adopt a missionary” supposedly to get to know them and pray for them and encourage them. Well, I tried and wrote and prayed and asked and I think since I didn’t send them any money or gifts in the mail (they are in the US, they stopped responding after the second one to my emails and then like 6 months later I get an email from an assistant or something. I didn’t sign up to talk to a secretary. Whatever but I was so tempted to send a snail mail letter saying that enclosed was a check to see if they all of a sudden weren’t “too busy” to respond by telling me the check wasn’t in the envelope… 🙄 😈

      2. The churches that support many missionaries at $25 a pop are looking to fill their nice missions map on the back wall of the sanctuary. Some ABWE friends of mine currently on deputation have actually been screened by churches asking where they were going to be missionaries. “Ooohh! We don’t have anybody in that part of the world yet!”
        They had a church take them on at a small amount a month, the very large church supported 100s of missionaries. they had a nice pretty map with lots of pins in it. What bugged my friends the most was that the church put on a big missions banquet every year and spent 50K on the affair! What a waste.

        1. I was told once that they would like to support me but that my field was in the wrong time zone. They had a missionary in every time zone except one and mine was already taken. Forget about “the Lord leading you”.

      3. Autonomy of the Local Church! You do know that is a Baptist distinctive right? Can’t be letting no denomination decide where our money is going. Better to force missionaries into an inefficient meat grinder in order to have any chance at getting on the field, plus of course every church wants all their missionaries to match them on 29 dimensions of compatibility. (Hmmm…I have a website idea) They waste time and money wandering around the country providing free pulpit supply and giving pew sitting people and portly pastors the opportunity to pick apart their dress and music standards, and nit pick about their doctrinal statement.

        Its the fundy way! We can’t change it, cause thats what those modern churches do…if God wants them on the field, he will provide a miraculous sheet full of money coming down from the sky. Until then we will take advantage, and pretend we are fulfilling the great commission because of our commitment to missions when we haven’t reached anyone in our own community in years because we just don’t care to engage them in any meaningful way and when they wander in by accident we make it very clear they will not be welcome unless they become “like” us.

        Hmmm. I had more stored up there than I thought.

        1. Wow. I could never have said this so well, nor so powerfully. What a mess. Please, Lord, open the eyes of fundies! 🙁

        2. Lots of truth packed in those couple paragraphs!

          I think part of the reason many IFB churches support lots of missionaries for small amounts:

          1) Bragging rights to prove how spiritual they are by having so many missionaries
          2) False guilt – believing that their church MUST be involved in spreading the Gospel to every part of the world. If not, their blood is on the church’s hands. Part of this false guilt is based on the next point:
          3) Refusal to understand the universal church – ALL Christians, the whole body of Christ, are responsible for spreading the Gospel. Maybe I personally cannot reach the Maldives, but if another missionary at another church does, the Gospel is still being preached. Many fundies don’t even believe in the universal church so they feel as if their individual group of 150 people must reach, or at least attempt to reach, every part of the globe.
          4) An emphasis on the superficial appearance of things: Often their soul-winning techniques are not particularly effective, but they continue on, believing that their dogged determination makes up for the lack of converts. A full wall of missionaries makes them LOOK concerned over missionaries, even if their having that many means they are not actually fully supporting ANY of them.
          5) Misplaced concern for the heathen abroad instead of their own community – Captain Solo mentioned this earlier, but often a church has more outreach to the unsaved through their missionaries than to their own neighborhood.

  24. The denomination that I grew up in had a very different approach to paying missionaries. They were paid salaries from the denominational HQ.

    So no begging required.

    I still heard stories of care packages being sent to them that contained used tea bags.

  25. Our church is small, and “supports” too many missionaries. Our new pastor wants us to carefully make the list smaller and give more money to the ones we keep. I’ve been at our church for 6 years now, and we’ve only ever seen a couple of the missionaries. I guess the others go to the churches that give more than $25/mo. 🙄 Our pastor also wants us to get more involved in local charities. 😯 (We love him!)

  26. My fundy aunt and uncle were fundy missionaries. I remember going on some trips with them to churches. The mission closets were always nice that I remember. Our church did a Christmas gift drive for them. One spinster gave them her fathers old underwear.

    What I thought was odd was that they just sat around during the week, but complained at Christmas when my parents would get us things. “Our kids would have liked that, but we are poor missionaries.” I didn’t find that out until I asked my mom why we always had another Christmas after we had Christmas with them.

    I was very impressed with the Board of Global Ministries of
    the United Methodist church. No waiting years drumming up financial support.

    Regarding the singing group, my brother was in a singing group from Grand Rapids Baptist. It was co-ed. The girls couldnt hold the microphones because it was phallic, so the guys got to hold it instead. He learned how to play poker on these trips, the never used money. It was candy, chips and tampons.

    I also laughed when they said tea bag, wonder if they ever tea bagged on their trip. LOL

  27. My frustrations with deputation are:

    1. They expect you to get to the field in two years but they give at a rate that they gave in the 1970’s.

    2. You are always competing for support with other missionaries. A conference is almost like a death match for support.

    3. You are always competing with the actual mission boards and their representatives and staff members, presidents, etc. who also receive their support from churches and cannibalize most of the mission dollars out there. Then they sit back at the home office and do jack and don’t even work at 40 hour work week.

    And I do this why? Because missions is important to me and because most of my contacts and background is IFB, so it is too late for me to go another route to do missions at this point.

  28. And I actually get treated better by some Southern Baptist Churches. They rarely see a missionary and many are interested in supporting independent missionaries as long as you don’t come in there breathing KJV and Christ honoring music crap.

  29. Holy shit!!!! (No pun intended) Is there a single person alive who can possibly find this to be the slightest bit funny? Really?!

  30. I have been told by a number of pastors that they won’t have us in because of our liberal mission board. When I can get an answer as to how they are liberal, the three things that pop up most are that hey won’t take a stand on the KJV, they let their missionaries listen to CCM, and they let them present their ministries in Southern Baptist Churches. I’m personally guilty on all counts.

    On the lighter side, I know a guy whose family received as part of a care package a large bar of soap made up from the remains of many different brands of slivers of soap pressed together. (Nothing gets wasted, and those poor missionaries can smell good!)

  31. I can’t identify with the missionary aspect of this, but I sure can identify with the musical part. When I was in Christian college I was in the choir, and every year we would go out for a week and travel from church to church. The music was mostly classical, and the choir was actually pretty darn good, but in the middle of every concert there was a time for us to share our testimonies (which, we cynically referred to, between one another, as “testiphonies”). It was painful . . . and SO unnecessary.

    Then there was the Gospel Team, consisting of four squeaky clean, spit-and-polish young men in ties who went out on tour and did the same thing, except that it was all quartet music. Two of the guys were gay, and later they publicly came out of the closet. 😯

    Oh, the memories . . .

  32. The funniest thing is the guy on the far left of the video. He goes into spasms overacting each line and several times the guys next to him look over like “what the grape juice is he doing?”

  33. Wow. That video bring back bad memories. Been away from fundism for 20 years now (this year!!) and that whole thing ties my stomach in knots.

  34. “shows the utter barrenness of the Great Commission in these churches”

    Not really. It is human nature. I’m shy. hate going out to spread the Word. I’d rather have someone else do it for me. Especially if we then get the cards for the new converts.

    Then, it is a matter of being creatures of habit. Most of us don’t even notice when we create all these little rules around ourselves. Happens in the best of families. and in the best of churches.

    Anyone who has gone to visit a Catholic or Episcopalian church, who doesn’t know when to stand and when to sit will understand the feeling of disconnectedness. (Robin Williams calls it “Pew Aerobics.”)

    1. @Ricardo, I mean that churches are willing to present the gospel and claim converts, but the training is, by and large, ignored, and it’s just as much a part of the Great Commission.

      I’m sure that we all create such rules, but shunning newcomers because they don’t know the unwritten rules is wrong.

      I can understand the feeling of disconnectedness — someone should take newcomers in hand and help them through such times. Not everyone can do this ministry, but there are surely some who can.

  36. Since when is it funny to complain? They sound very ungrateful and self important. Maybe they should consider what Paul went through! They should be ashamed of themselves! 🙁

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