195 thoughts on “Amazing Claims”

  4. I’ll take my butt-cushion extra soft, please!

    Listening to this guy, I think we need to start sending missionaries to that dark, heathenistic, God-less, foreign country of Los Angeles.
    Either that, or send Bob Gray to do a soul-winners clinic!!! 🙂

  5. This is the “Elijah complex,” as in, “Lord, they have killed Thy prophets and digged down Thy altars, and I, only I, am left, and they seek my life to take it away.” (I Kings 19). God replied that He had 7000 people left remaining faithful. One of Fundyland’s favorite neuroses.

    1. “Elijah complex” I like it! And yes, you’re right. Definitely one of their favorite neuroses, as well as a way to keep people from leaving.

    2. This is HILARIOUS to me because my former fundy mog’s compared themselves to Elijah. Literally L-O-L-ing right now…..

  6. I take offense to him saying that. We have a great school in Riverside. Cal Baptist College. More missional than they ever dreamed of being.

      1. Lancaster isn’t in the city of Los Angeles either. The video clip specifically stated the city 4 million – which is the city – not the surrounding areas. I live 30 minutes from Riverside – I am well aware of where it is (as well as Cal Baptist) and where the city boundaries for LA start.

        If you’re gonna get personally offended at somebody – make it for a good reason. Otherwise take it as education on what some people’s view is (uniformed or biased as it may be).

        1. My only point was that whatever you make the litmus of something then you must be willing to let it be used on your belief (their’s) .

      2. LBC is inside Los Angeles County though. But you are correct, they would certainly dis each and every other Christian college and church in the whole area simply because they are not just like them in really inconsequential ways.

    1. This negates MacArthur’s Grace Community Church, which is certainly within Los Angeles City limits.

        2. Negates as they do not consider Grace Community Church / John MacArthur to be “Bible believing”.

          BTW, I am no big fan of McArthur, but although we have our disagreements I would not say he is not Bible believing.

        6. John MacArthur is the RIGHT brand of “Fundy!” He is a historic fundamentalist and I am thankful for his courageous stand!

  9. He means there are only two KJV-Bible preaching churches because to them, if you don’t preach the KJV, you don’t preach the Bible.

      1. Maybe those others aren’t part of the “right” clique (in this case, the “right” clique would be WCBC as opposed to PCC/BJU/Crown/FBCH/add alphabet soup of your choice here).

      2. Chuckle… Perhaps this Goetch guy should have done the same.
        I am a newbie here, but sit in awe and wonder at the ignorance of these IFB preachers and wonder why, at their ages, they are still stuck in “the box”?
        I guess there’s hope… always hope…
        Hoping the next generation will wake up and STOP THE MADNESS!!

  11. Totally nuts is all I can say…plus he needs to get out the Yellow Pages and learn how to count churches!

  12. During our time visiting churches, it wasn’t uncommon for us to technically tell the truth about the very few number of churches there were in my parent’s country of choice. By technically, I mean the number of churches we knew were real churches. By real, I mean the churches that my parents thought were good churches. The criteria was to conservatively categorize churches you think are real, thereby giving you a low figure and justifying an alarmist state of request for support. However, if that number was too high (such as in England – because what missionary doesn’t want to go to England?) then you would use the number of churches from your Missions Organization.

    2. In this case, I am pretty sure by “bible preaching churches” he means “graduates of West Coast Baptist College.”

  13. Only two churches (worthy of being counted) in Los Angeles, CA?

    The Center for Religion and Civic Culture counts over 2500 Christian churches in a survey of only the “ten largest faith groups”:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrUM8m2rnP0

    A University of Southern California institution finds that “Los Angeles is the most religiously diverse city in the world”:
    http://www.prolades.com/glama/CRCC%20demographics%20%20Los%20Angeles.htm
    (I realize, of course, that many Fundies would see that as a bad thing.)

    Here’s a far-from-comprehensive list of 2150 churches in Los Angeles:
    http://www.yellowpages.com/los-angeles-ca/churches-places-of-worship

    Even this (also incomplete) directory of “KJV, independent, fundamental Baptist churches in California” lists four in Los Angeles, five in the adjacent Long Beach, etc.:
    http://www.fundamental.org/fundamental/churches/index.php3?action=listchurchesinstate&statename=California

    So are we to conclude that the West Coast Baptist College faculty cannot count past two?

        2. Let me tell you something about proctologists. The first rule is make us happy. Because, you know, I’d hate to “accidentally” lose a glove or something. And everyone knows that 100 is not binary – it has more than two digits! It is Roman Numerals.

        1. “Christian Churches” or “True Facts about Sloths” — ehh, what’s the difference again? For some of them, I mean. Especially of the fundy persuasion?

  14. Delusional…when you consider yourself greater then the Bride of Christ you have some pretty big pride issues, John G is off his rocker………..Adam Hatfield, Riverside of which I lived is most definetly not LA

  15. On a side note, Goetsch used to be a favorite “guest speaker” at the fundy summer camp I frequented. From the few interactions I had with him, he was always one of the most gracious engaging preachers, unlike many who would scream at us kids from the pulpit and then never acknowledge our existence outside of chapel. Carry on…..

        1. I am extremely curious as to how this broke down into a debate of what psychological abuse is. I 100% agree that screaming at children is terrible abuse. As I stated in my post, I simply remember Goetsch as being one of the friendlier preachers at fundy camp some 20+ years ago, and that stuck in my memory. I hadn’t heard his name in quite a while. I don’t remember him ever being featured on this site, and it was interesting to me to see a fundy preacher that I remembered from my youth. I grew up in a very small fundy bubble, and most of these guys that consider themselves bigwigs are preachers I had never heard of in all my time in Fundydom (Hyles, Schaap, Trieber, etc.).

      2. Never said he didn’t scream at us. He just seemed more personable and genuine than most preachers I heard. At my young age, that stood out to me.

        1. Screaming at children, IMHO, is psychological abuse. I’m not a psychologist. Just an old cop.

        2. When I was younger, a few personalities impressed me. Yes, these people, like most people, cannot be evil to everyone. They can be kind sometimes.

          But the evil is still manifested elsewhere.

          I might want to warn you that the willingness to excuse bad behavior in the ones who have been kind to you is a common human trait. In my experience, it seems more prevalent among fundies, or those with fundy inclinations.

          Currently I am in a stalemate situation with my wife and daughter. I do not go to the fundy church any longer, if I can help it. I suffered a lot of personal hurt there, and tried to shield my family as I took the brunt of it.

          But my wife and daughter still attend regularly. My wife and daughter think I am selfish for feeling that their loyalty to the IFB church is a betrayal of me. They tell me that the church hasn’t dealt such hurt to *them*. Why should they suffer by being made to leave their friends?

          That kind of argument makes it look like the abuse I suffered must have been *my fault*, that somehow I deserved it. It completely overlooks the wrong the leaders of the church did, accepting such behavior as long as it is not directed toward them. Other people are expendable. Meaning me.

          Trying to explain this to my wife gained me nothing but grief. Only recently has she said anything that hints at understanding my position. She *will* continue going, she insists, for the sake of our daughter — I feel that our daughter needs an attitude correction, but I am not supported by my wife in that assumption.

          When you excuse the plainly bad behavior of someone because they aren’t doing it to you, you are endorsing their wickedness. Such attitudes have brought me closer to losing my faith than the original hurts have.

        4. You know, you don’t have to poison food by dumping a pile of steaming dog poop into it. You can poison the Kool Aid with something nice and sweet, like antifreeze.

          Just because a fundy is nice and personable doesn’t mean his brand of religion isn’t heartbreaking and soul-killing.

        5. Lady Semp-

          Exactly.

          They smile at you while placing the unbearable burdens of legalism on your back.

        6. Dear Lady Semp,
          Some do not see poop as poison. I have a shit-eating dog. That’s her guilty pleasure. True statement.

          Maybe same could be said for fundies who continue to get their spiritual food at the IFB. They’ve developed a taste for shit.

    2. Yeah, he was definitely one of the more likable preachers. But the competition isn’t going to win any kind of personality contest.

  16. Los Angeles is huge – there’s no way he can know this. But I’m sure his congregation is rapt – so sad.

      2. Here are the same kind of accounting principles.
        There are over 200 million “lost souls” in North America? Based on what?
        As long as you’re making up numbers, you might as well say there are 18, or 18 billion, people you are trying to reach.

        2. They didn’t say.
          That does seem important, since Mexico has around 120 million people.

          But if you’re just making up the numbers of “lost souls” anyway, it doesn’t matter as much what geographic area you include.

        4. According to Wikipedia, the U.S., Canada, and Mexico have over 100 million people who do not self identify as Christians. If only a quarter of the remaining 380 million are not actually Christians, then the claim of 200 million lost souls is a reasonable one. This is also not taking into account that all of the Caribbean and Central America and Greenland are part of North America as well. Obviously this is no where near as egregious a statement as the one made by that ignorant fool at WCBC.

        5. Mark, then you have people like me who once made a profession of faith but sometimes identify as xian and sometimes as agnostic. So what am I?

          And since everyone’s definition of xian is different — just ask a fundy, a Catholic, and a non-denominationalist and see the answers you get — it is impossible to quantify how many people are “saved” vs. “unsaved”. Fundy math just doesn’t work.

        6. Lady Semp, I very much appreciate your dilemma. It is the same one I have.

          It is really, really hard. When I look at things objectively, I find it hard to believe that there is a God. I find it impossible to believe that God exists in such contradictory and often awful ways as found in the Bible. I find it inconceivable that I used to believe in God the way the fundies do.

          But my emotions betray me. And often on the road or when I am alone I find myself calling out to God in prayer. It is not deliberate prayer. It is just my heart reaching out.

          Sometimes I am angry and I yell at God. Sometimes I simply ask for help. Sometimes I thank Him for something good that happened, especially good things I could not have expected.

          So, on the one hand I don’t know if God exists or not. I am sure that God doesn’t exist in the way the Bible has interpreted Him to. But I cannot “unbelieve,” even if it would make my life easier (and it would).

          I love the example of Jesus. I love His words. There is much wisdom to be found in the Scriptures, even if there is also much that is not.

          I am a Christian. And I am also an Agnostic. I intend to live as one who will treat others as I want to be treated. I intend to fight the tyranny of the mind and heart that fundamentalism produces. And I intend to live life to the fullest.

        7. I think her grace, Lady Semp hits the most important point here.
          The most annoying aspect of the SBC claim isn’t whether the number is 10 million or 200 million or 50 billion, but the arrogance of the presumption that the SBC knows exactly who is “lost” and who isn’t.

          It’s a pretty gross heresy to set yourself up as having knowledge of the condition of everyone else’s soul.

        8. RTG, Lady, and BG–all well put. Still, I think it is safe to say that self-identified non-Christians are “lost” as it is usually defined within the context of this discussion. I think that term was coined by Jesus as a reference to a sheep who had strayed from its flock when the scribes and Pharisees were complaining about Him eating with sinners. I guess I don’t see the harm in a missional organization recognizing that many millions of people on earth are not followers of Jesus–and He has come to “seek and save them.” And I still don’t see any correlation between the ridiculous claim about LA and a rough estimate which can be backed up by using widely available sources.

  18. I’m guessing he’s never heard of EV Hill’s church. EV Hill was pretty legit even if he was on TBN/PTL Club. Plus California is home of Calvary Chapel and there are plenty of legit Calvary Chapel campuses in California and one in L.A. as well.

    1. Those aren’t fundamental, KJV 1610 only churches! I attended a church in my teens where people drove in from 30 miles away because they couldn’t find a “appropriate” church in their area. As I grew in my faith, I realized that was ridiculous. Besides, you just say to your neighbors, “I’d love to bring you to my church, 30 miles away on the freeway!.”

      By the way, I lived in a large urban area, not out in the boonies where a 30 mile ride to church might not be unheard of.

      1. Thanks for clarifying. Those of us who live near the boonies might wonder what’s so strange about a 30 mile drive anywhere.

        4. I live out far enough a 30 mile drive isn’t strange – in fact, it’s a 32 mile drive to church and a 38 mile drive to work. I LOL’d at the 30 mile to the outhouse comment.

  19. That kind of claim, of course, is nothing but a lie.

    Unless, of course, by “Bible-preaching” one means only those churches that perfectly agree with their particular, peculiar, and putrid interpretation of the Bible.

    Of course, lying about one’s enemies is permissible. And just like Jesus didn’t say, “If they aren’t preaching the Kingdom our way and under our authority, they aren’t preaching God’s Word.”

    Why is it that “Christians” of the Fundamentalist stripe like the idea of majority rule (if they can get a majority) but always act like a persecuted minority? Why are they so eager to send people who have trusted Christ in churches that aren’t *them* to hell?

    1. “…their particular, peculiar, and putrid interpretation of the Bible.” That was some beautiful alliteration. Either you left the fundie fold recently, or some skills you never forget (like riding a bike).

        1. Yes. Yes, I could have.

          I really need to make a list of related alliteratives. Of course, if I did so I could sell the list to the fundy preacher market. Maybe make big bucks?

          No. I couldn’t do that to the people in the pews. (Fundy sermons often stink to high heaven as it is.)

          Time for bed.

  20. Somebody needs to open a “Bible believing” church on the east side of Lancaster. There aren’t any currently.

    The need is indeed great.

    1. Hmmm. The “BBC”?

      BB, as in “Bible-believing”?

      Or, as in parishioners perched precariously on their ponderous posteriors in the pews?

      I really need to go to bed.

      1. “Parishioners” sounds too Catholic. Appearances of evil and all that.

        (I’m not saying Catholics are evil. Just being sarcastic.)

  21. So this guy is no different than Hyles and Schaap claiming there were no Bible-believing churches in Indiana-Illinois

  22. John Goestch is a Maranatha grad and I’m pretty sure he grew up in Watertown, WI. His brother, Mark, was at MBBC at the same time I was. He (John) traveled in full-time evangelism, mostly in the Midwest, before coming to WCBC. Like it was said before, he is, or at least was, one of the nicer of the fundy crowd, but he’s swallowed the fundy mindset and obviously believes that IFB churches are the only “bible believing,” “bible preaching” and “bible practicing” churches.

    1. That must be why this is one person of whom I have heard. I grew up in various areas of the Midwest and our church was a big supporter of Maranatha.

    3. Usually as we age, we start thinking “outside the box”… At least I have. Wish others could too.
      I enjoy my down time reading this stuff… Makes me realize my life aint so bad after all. ha!
      Now, time to go mow the yard. Real life is calling my name….

    1. Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!

      I have actually heard Chappell be critical of the “worldly” Biola students who happened to attend a Dodger game at the same time WCBC students were also in attendance. Ladies wearing skirts and their preplanned group singing of Victory in Jesus during the game made all the difference, apparently.

  24. This is a common claim of IFB Fundies regardless of where they reside or the population concentration. I heard claims just like this 40 years ago. It goes back to the MOG cookie cutter template and brainwashing. They aren’t always disingenuous however. Sometimes they just don’t know any better due to isolation from the real world and are convinced they and they alone are the sole bearers if the truth.

    1. Growing up in these small fundy churches, they always had us kids believing that we were the most influential church in all the community. Hence, I always wondered why there were blank stares and *crickets* whenever someone would ask me where I went to school. Most people had never heard of the place. Being a kid, I assumed they must have lived under a rock to have never heard of our church/school. As an adult, it makes me cringe to look back and see how sheltering it all was.

    2. I like it when Fundies make claims like this, that can be tested factually.
      If someone says he or she is God’s Annointed, that’s pretty hard to prove or disprove, but if you say there are only two churches in the city, anyone can check that out with a walk down the street or a look at the Yellow Pages. The third church you see proves the statement to be false.
      It still doesn’t prove or disprove the less quantifiable claims, but it lets you know that the person asserting those claims is prone to just making stuff up and then saying it’s true.

    1. There was another LBC/WCBC church plant in North Hollywood (LBC member Rob Badgett started), but I can not find a website for it….and trust me, all LBC related churches have websites.

      Is it gone?

      Did Roland Rasmussen’s Faith Baptist Church in Canoga Park make Goetsch’s list of Bible preaching churches?

      On a somewhat related note, LBC has planted several not-so-independent satellite church locations (Castaic, Taft, and I think one near Rialto). I still remember being taught that the LOCAL church was the only way – no church hierarchies allowed. Well now LBC has several satellite churches – how very Rick Warren-ish. Funny how things change when it benefits the machine.

      1. You are thinking of Victory Baptist Church in North Hollywood. It was a much trumped up church plant a few years ago led by former Pastor Badger. Sadly, after several years of ministry, his family underwent some personal turmoil and he resigned.

        It is now led by WCBC graduate Nick Reed and has taken a significantly more contemporary approach.

        http://www.victoryonline.org/

        2. Yes, I did look at that church, but was confused when I saw it was not KJVO and Mr. Badger was not the pastor.

          Glad to hear this WCBC grad broke free and led the church out of that cultic environment. Their regional pope must have been furious about it.

        3. Interesting that Pastor Reed chose not to name the Bible college he and his wife attended in his bio.

          🙂

        4. As an Angeleno, I clicked on the link to check out the church. The pastor seems sincere but I noticed that they have a calendar on the side with an activity/service for almost every night of the week. No thanks!!

    2. Jeanskirt,

      Yeah, I would not be willing to put myself or my family through a crazy busy church schedule again. Not sure if the activities are truly optional or if people are pushed into conformity. I hope he has walked away from guilt and shame based Christianity. (I had to leave the IFBx to truly understand that Jesus’ yoke is easy and His burden light.)

      So while this pastor has moved away from Chappell’s version of church, like you, I am not sure if he has moved far enough for me. I did not see anything about KJVO, they have a contemporary service, and there were ladies wearing pants in some pictures – so they have come quite a way.

      1. My church is a medium sized one that has something going on most days. However, everything is truly optional. It actually works out well; most people find something they can get involved in – if they want.

  26. There are only extremes within fundamentalism. They are either saving tens of thousands of souls on a yearly basis or they are fighting a losing battle–only 2 Bible preaching churches in a city of millions. They are either conquerors or martyrs. But then again they cannot truly consider themselves to be successful if they are not being persecuted and the odds aren’t against them

  27. I really think they need to start their own denomination, since they are acting so denominational in saying that there’s only two churches meeting their approval in Los Angeles.

    1. They don’t qualify to be a denomination. They aren’t big enough. And with all the separation going on, the denominator would skyrocket as the numerator dwindles.

      No, better to call them a “sect,” or better still, a cult.

      And they are. They are.

    2. Dear pontificator and rgtmath:

      Independent ecclesial governance effectively constitutes each local congregation an entire denomination by default. This is why church governance is an occasional hot topic at SFL.

      Elder plurality [i.e. biblical church governance] would curb IFB insanity/hegemony/abuse/privilege markedly. Accountability structures would be put in place and they would be known and accessible to all. Violations would lead to ecclesial discipline. That is precisely why elder plurality is resisted tenaciously.

      Some say that biblical fidelity requires independence. In fact, independence is required for the cultural entrenchment of IFB insanity/hegemony/abuse/privilege. Independence ensures that the congregations are dominated by the sickest affections, the worst social dynamics and sheer, tyrannical demagoguery.

      Independent church governance gives insufficient recognition to Jesus’ headship over the church [Jo 17; Ro 12; Ep 4 etc.]. Hence rgtmath’s observation that the local church isn’t ‘big enough’ to be a denomination.

      Jesus’ headship over the whole body requires the faithful practice of churchly relations between denominations. Then alone can members have the same care over one another. Then alone can each member suffer/rejoice together. And as the Spirit’s gifts the the church include apostles/prophets/teachers etc., it is clear that the whole church is called/required to this reflection together [1Co 12:25ff].

      This is also why the National Council of Churches and World Council of Churches are vilified whenever named. Do orthodoxy/orthopraxy issues exist in the body? Absolutely. And ongoing discussion is needed precisely for that reason.

      It is true that we are so separate from every brother who walks disorderly. But who walks disorderly if not those who deny Jesus’ headship in by dividing the church [1Co 12:25]?

      Christian Socialist

      1. Elder plurality [i.e. biblical church governance] would curb IFB insanity/hegemony/abuse/privilege markedly.
        CS, I’m going to disagree with you here, but only because I have experienced churches that really “took a strong stand” on elder plurality, but the elders were all hand-picked yes-men, or just didn’t care about spiritual abuse. Admittedly these were Baptist churches, so there was no synod or circuit or presbytery to hold them accountable. What I have concluded is that there is no one fool-proof system that can countervail human sinfulness, which may be why no one in the NT sat down to write a polity manual.

        1. Dear Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist:

          Thanks for a fine reply.

          You are indeed correct that there is no way of structuring our human corruption out of existence. And the existence of a classis or presbytery, synod or general assembly offers no guarantee that all things will be done properly. These bodies both can and often have erred. Ecclesial polity affirms the rights and responsibilities of all covenanting parties. It facilitates mutual accountability and submission and offers recourse for grievances. Moreover, ecclesial polity is that it puts in place a mechanism to work toward the resolution of difficulties.

          It is inevitable that difficulties requiring redress will arise. When that happens, there must be recourse. It is the failure/refusal to face and work toward resolution that becomes the most egregious abuse of all.

          I accede that some affirm congregational governance out of conscience. That isn’t my system, but because of conscience, it be allowed. Congregations must be able to select and if necessary replace their local leadership.

          There is no excuse for failing to retain some policy which outlines the obligations of covenanting parties, and by which the church is united and agrees to govern itself. Hand-picked ‘yes men,’ don’t constitute that polity. That is the ‘privilege’ of which I spoke, and it was a huge issue during the Reformation. Rightly so!

          Blessings!

          Christian Socialist

    1. I hate those two arrogant catch phrases. According to whom? The Fundies obviously. Not only “God honoring ” and “Bible believing”, but one pompous arrogant BJU grad Fundy MOG I was dumb enough to attention (his) church had the following statement on (his) church’s website, and I kid you not: “We find that God is glorified at Grace Baptist Church”. That was enough to really turn your stomach because I personally knew all too well the MOG, his family and extended family. They were so impressed with themselves and regularly told you how many years if education they had. I suppose maybe that was what was so glorifying to God? I feel like I need to wash my hands now that I’ve used my fingers to repeat the above.
      My Bible says that Jesus made himself of no reputation and took on the form if a servant.
      Pride really is one of the worst sins man can commit.

      1. I too had experiences with a Mog of BJU proportions. Same arrogant “god-honoring” self-aggrandizement for the church he built, bragging about how many degrees he had (so how dare you question him) and how much money he sacrificially gave back, etc. Him and his progeny gradually taking over every leadership position in the church because they “were on the same page” and basically a proud and isolated bunch of sameness.

        I find that many people who try to make any points about “fundamentalism” or “evangelicalism” or “The Church” etc, are really just projecting their own little circle of experience onto everyone else and just getting it wrong mostly. “The problem with everyone else is they are not me.” Human nature, that, not the Spirit of the Living God.

        1. Not only did this pompous ass MOG at Grace Baptist Church self-glorify himself and keep it all in the family………gees…..it makes me wonder if we’re not talking about the same MOG here, when I went through some horrible health issues in my late 20’s and right after losing a child and not being able to work for 3 years with no income except what little my wife made. Well anyway somehow we managed to put $5 or $6 checks occasionally in the offering plate, this asshole (please forgive my French) told me one time that the reason I was having such a hard time was because I wasn’t giving enough money to (his) church because (he), the MOG saw the checks. Is that even the MOG’s business? Evidently it was for this MOG. He also told me that if I could buy a riding lawnmower (I bought a used junk one at a local department store) but I couldn’t give more money. Didn’t matter that at times I was passing blood due to inoperable huge kidney stones for 3 terrible punishing years till Lithotripsy was approved by the FDA and my wife finally qualifying for medical insurance.
          You can’t make this stuff up. I believe in a malignant evil being called Lucifer and I know he is active in the Independent Fundamental Baptist cult.
          This is only the tip of the iceberg of the hellish treatment I suffered by MOGS. I was so damn stupid and needy that I sought out other MOGS in other places.
          In my early 60’s now and I am still angry I wasted precious time in these godawful cult environments.
          On a positive side I attend a non-denominational church today but I sleep with one eye open.

        2. I sympathize. I am in my late 50s, and am angry that I spent so much time in Fundystan. Even now I cannot get out of it because my wife and daughter are still stuck in it.

          My daughter is the most entrenched. It will take a miracle to get her out. Still, I thought it would take a miracle for my wife to even consider getting out. She has indicated more understanding — I guess she has been feeling some hurts as well. I wouldn’t have wished them on her, but now that she is experiencing some, it helps her to see how badly I was hurt.

          She still is dedicated to taking my daughter to the IFB church as long as she wants to go. But perhaps that will change.

          In my experience, we do not actually leave such things until we are ready to do so. We can’t. IFBism is an addiction, a cult, and it controls us. We are used to being controlled, even if we don’t admit it to ourselves. So I recommend you rejoice in the grace that got you out of the mire. Shower off the mud, clean your clothes, and get ready to have new adventures and ideas. You will surprise yourself, shock others, and scandalize those you left behind.

          We have no time to regret lost time. There is only time to move forward.

        3. Former Funny Mentalist,

          It seems that your former Mog would have rebuked Jesus for commending the faith of the widow and her giving.

          B.R.O.

        4. Dear FFM,
          My late father used to say that most preachers have not suffered enough. That’s why they are that way. I’m so sorry. You went through so much. When your pastor should have been there for comfort, he showed that he was just interested in money. It will be fascinating to see what happens at the judgment. I’ll be left in the dust, that’s a given. But I never pretend to be something that I’m not.

          Dear rtgmath,
          We are close to the same age. I’m beyond the point of really trying to understand all that I’ve seen in the IFB. I’m just trying to retire so that I can go fly fishing. Maybe I’ll be able to figure more of this stuff out then. I read all of your posts. I feel so badly that your wife and daughter are still clinging to the old IFB ways. My prayer is that they will see the IFB for what it really is. And that you, your wife and daughter, will be united totally. You are such a wonderful contributor to SFL. I learn from you regularly, and I hope that I can come back to a point of real faith, as you seem to have done. Godspeed, my friend, BJg

  33. One of the reasons why I live in Los Angeles. . . I stopped putting BJU on my resume (and dating profile) years ago.

    1. SW-thanks for the link to Pastor Bob’s blog. For someone such as myself who spent the first 42 years of my life in Baptist churches and have now been at an Assemblies of God church for 4 years, it is a good reminder that there will be United Methodists in Heaven too. I’ve never attended an IFBx church, but my dad interviewed with Jack Hyles for a teaching position at Hyles Anderson in 1974. Thankfully, my parents agreed after that interview that they would never want him working for that “arrogant jerk.” Those were my dad’s exact words when I asked him about that experience a couple of weeks ago.

  35. My former fundy CEO made the same proclamation of himself and the “church” he would found and lord it over in our fair city. it didn’t go over well with local ministries.

    His “faithful core group” of thirty-five or so are still holding the torch in this godless and desert land of gospel-less heathenism. It’s a lonely life being a fundy Mog.

  37. Just a quick google search and you will find hundreds of Baptist Churches in Los Angeles. I would venture a guess that there are more than only 2 KJV churches in that number. I am an IFB’r and trust me when I say we eat that crap up and tend to believe what we hear way too often.

    1. I used the query, “How many KJVO Baptist churches are in the city of Los Angeles?” and this is what I got:

      Montecito Park Baptist Church Dr.Ezekiel Salazar Los Angeles
      Hillside Baptist Church Dr. Ray M. Ramirez Los Angeles
      LOS ANGELES BAPTIST CHURCH Salvador Menjivar Los Angeles

      I copied the listing from http://fundamental.org/fundamental/churches/index.php3?action=listchurchesinstate&statename=California . I’m sure there are other chuches preaching and teaching the gospel in that city, but sadly the fundies won’t count them.

        1. So now I have to wonder who LBC has voted off the island:

          Roland and Tim Rasmussen’s Faith Baptist Church in Canoga Park (remember Mark Rasmussen is a VP of WCBC)

          or

          Montecito Park Baptist Church’s Dr.Ezekiel Salazar – Former LBC employee

          Since Menjivar’s church is an actual LBC church plant, I think he is definitely one of the two.

        2. Ramirez did not start IFB. He heard Jack Hyles and then followed closely with BG. He took those ideals from Hyles and BGs camps and pumped them to the umpteenth degree. Currently, he is leaving Los Angeles because his church membership is at an all time low and can’t sustain his building. He had to sell and is not moving outside of LA. There goes another IFB church from LA. You have laugh to keep from crying.

  38. I don’t mean to post this twice if I am but I think I made a goof first time???

    Not only did this pompous ass MOG at Grace Baptist Church self-glorify himself and keep it all in the family………gees…..it makes me wonder if we’re not talking about the same MOG here, when I went through some horrible health issues in my late 20’s and right after losing a child and not being able to work for 3 years with no income except what little my wife made. Well anyway somehow we managed to put $5 or $6 checks occasionally in the offering plate, this asshole (please forgive my French) told me one time that the reason I was having such a hard time was because I wasn’t giving enough money to (his) church because (he), the MOG saw the checks. Is that even the MOG’s business? Evidently it was for this MOG. He also told me that if I could buy a riding lawnmower (I bought a used junk one at a local department store) but I couldn’t give more money. Didn’t matter that at times I was passing blood due to inoperable huge kidney stones for 3 terrible punishing years till Lithotripsy was approved by the FDA and my wife finally qualifying for medical insurance.
    You can’t make this stuff up. I believe in a malignant evil being called Lucifer and I know he is active in the Independent Fundamental Baptist cult.
    This is only the tip of the iceberg of the hellish treatment I suffered by MOGS. I was so damn stupid and needy that I sought out other MOGS in other places.
    In my early 60’s now and I am still angry I wasted precious time in these godawful cult environments.
    On a positive side I attend a non-denominational church today but I sleep with one eye open.

    1. Former Funny Mentalist,

      Yeah. I think I will always sleep with one eye open when it comes to church.

      Was this the Grace Baptist in Gaylord, MI?

      1. No. It was Grace Baptist Church in Lebanon, Indiana. No longer GBC. It’s now just called “Grace!” The MOG retired????
        I do live in Michigan however. I was born and raised (like an animal I was raised). I’ve been back in Michigan for 27 years. Kalamazoo area.

  39. Big Gary,
    I’m feeling a little ignored and left out here. I know I have lots of misspelled words or autocorrected words that don’t fit in some of my posta. I’d feel a lot bettter if ypuu would correctc some fore me two. 🙂

  40. Not on the topic, but has anyone else noticed that annoying ad banner on the left at the top, the one that blocks out the random topic generator? Is it just me, or is that really annoying? I want my random sites, not ad for cars or lingerie. 😡

    2. Ad banners covering the random topics hasn’t been a problem, but from time to time there has been some sort of medical information superimposed over other material on this site. This can make for confusing reading, and I’m still not entirely clear on whether constipation, bipolar disorder, cardiac arrythymmias, depression, and poor concentration and poor memory are possible side effects of citalopram or of listening to Sam Gipp.

      1. I thought maybe that was just me. I figured the internet knew I needed some type of professional help. I would like to know what causes the overwriting. Maybe it’s the Russians SFL had trouble with a while back messing with Darrell again.

      2. I’m so glad you brought this up! I just figured I was having a psychotic break. Or that my phone is demon-possessed.

  41. BigRedOne,
    How right your father was. Suffering definitely has a way to keep us humble. It makes us able to feel for the hurting in the Body of Christ. We treasure the simple things and rejoice when when we realize it was the suffering that draws us to God.
    The IFB cult was a cruel stumbling block to me and I went through years of bitterness because if them.
    I’ve stated this before in this blog, but one IFB self-righteous monster who’s still an IFB MOG in South Dakota scolded me for sobbing and verbally grieving the day of my son’s funeral. I didn’t know life could end up hurting so bad.
    I’ve personally told a handful if these monsters to go to hell in a hand basket. I’ve set boundaries and guard them like a junkyard dog today.
    It used to be my purpose in life to ruin Fundy-U’s and the IFB’ers. I’ve aborted that mission. The IFB’ers are doing a fine job of that all by themselves without my help.
    I realized I have children, grandchildren, a wife who loves me, a few close friends that are my mission in life.
    I have so many stores to tell. In time as new topics come up.
    This blog is actually becoming kinda fun.

  42. I believe it’s finding fellowship where we may never meet in this world but can nevertheless be a tool of both receiving and giving healing. Our time here is so short. I want every moment to be of value.
    This is a safe place to let the bitterness come out where others understand.
    It’s like soaking a puss infected puncture wound in Epsom salts. Ever done that? It draws out the infection.
    I participated in communion this morning in my church. It was again impressed on me that Jesus used the braking of Bread to signify His brokenness and suffering and the fruit of the vine as a symbol of His sinless sacrificial atonement as the only way to make me acceptable in God’s sight.
    No guilt trips, no hammering and bludgeoning by a MOG.
    God’s Word thought, my openness to His Spirit, swallow my pride and allow and accept His healing.

  43. When my former pastor (Metro-Detroit IFB church) preached at PCC, he mentioned during one of his sermons that he pastors “the only good Bible-believing church for 20 miles.” Someone I knew from one of the many, many other IFB churches in the area mentioned to Dr. Mullenix that she didn’t think that was fair, and he apparently told her they were not planning on having my pastor back in the future. This was a church that I saw isolate itself from other churches over the course of a decade for increasingly ridiculous reasons. They once called off going to a local youth event because the literature said something like “please suggest to your teens that they wear modest apparel to this event,” and they thought the language wasn’t strong enough.

  44. Did someone really say that Riverside is part of Los Angeles? It’s not even part of Los Angeles County!

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