Doctrine

A Shorter Fundy Catechism

114 Comments

Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?
A. Man’s chief end is to glorify the pastor, and to support him forever.

Q. 2. What rule hath the pastor given to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him?
A. All of them.

Q. 3. What do the scriptures principally teach?
A. The scriptures principally teach whatever the pastor says they teach.

Q. 4. What is the pastor?
A. Better than you.

Q. 5. Are there more pastors than one?
A. Not until the pastor’s son graduates from the Bible college in the trailer out back.

Q. 6. How many persons are there on the church staff?
A. There are three persons on the staff: the pastor, the song leader, and Chuck. Chuck is mostly just the pastor’s son in law.

Q. 7. What are the decrees of the pastor?
A. They’re all up on the wall of his study. He even got a doctoral decree a few years back.

Q. 8. How doth the pastor execute his decrees?
A. Sometimes he tells us Greek words and doesn’t even look them up or nothin.

Q. 9. What is the work of creation?
A. Most of our ladies do up a pretty good casserole.

Q. 10. How did God create man?
A. Perfect. Then women came along.

Q. 11. What are God’s works of providence?
A. This one time I didn’t go soul winning and I broke my leg a month later.

Q. 12. What special act of providence did God exercise toward man in the estate wherein he was created?
A. Well…he let a whole bunch of us be born American. So I guess that’s something.

Q. 13. Did our first parents continue in the estate wherein they were created?
A. Nope. Mine moved to Florida to be missionaries.

Q. 14. What is sin?
A. What isn’t sin would be a lot easier question to answer. It’s pert near everywhere.

Q. 15. What was the sin whereby our first parents fell from the estate wherein they were created?
A. I’m not sure we’re allowed to talk about that. Maybe I’ll draw you a picture.

(feel free to continue on…)

114 thoughts on “A Shorter Fundy Catechism”

    1. Q. 3. What do the scriptures principally teach?
      A. The scriptures principally teach whatever the pastor says they teach.

      Sad, but often true

  3. Q. How is unity in a business meeting obtained?

    A. By agreeing with the pastor in all things. (anything less is causing discord among the brethren)

  4. Q. Now that I have accepted Jesus as my Saviour, what must I do to be sanctified?

    A. 10% of your gross is a good starting point.

  6. Q. Why should we listen to the Mog?
    A. Because he watches for our souls.

    Q. Does the Mog know all things?
    A. Yes. Nothing can be hidden from the Mog. If you don’t confess the Holy Spirit will narc you out to the Mog.

    Q. Who wrote the Bible?
    A. God and King James.

    Q. What is sin?
    A. Sin is transgression of the law of God, such as owning a television, women wearing pants or missing bus visitation to go to the flea market.

    Q. Should babies be baptized?
    A. No; because the Bible neither commands it nor gives an example of it. (If you point out that this answer could apply to bus routes, tracts or fellowship dinners you are a rebel and deserve the personalized sermon you will no doubt get)

    1. Q: Should babies be baptised
      A: Of course not — they have no capacity to understand an infinite God, the nature of sin, the redemptive work of Christ, or make life altering decisions — unlike God’s unspoken preference for the 4-5 yo demographic.

  7. Q. What is the Great Commission?
    A. Go out and make IFBs of all the nations and those other heathen christians.

  8. Q. What are the two greatest commandments?
    A. Love the MOG with all your heart mind and finances and the second is equal to the first; love thy neighbors which do the same.

  9. Q. What is your gross income?
    A. Your gross income is all your income before taxes. For children this includes the $10 birthday gift from grandma. But for pastors and evangelists this may exclude love offerings, free meals, Christmas gifts, housing allowances, car allowances, free tuition their children get at the Christian school, tuition discounts at Fundy U., church foyer tape and book sales, and other general areas where the sheeple need to “take care of” God’s anointed.

    1. My old pastor would always tell us how he tithed on monetary gifts he received. Of course he said it in a bragging manner to tell us how we fall short of his holiness because we don’t tithe. And if we do, we stop at 10%.

      I always thought it is a sham if a pastor brags about tithing. Afterall, the money is making its way back into his pocket.

      1. Agreed. Since he is essentially tithing with tithed monies, he should end the recirculation by just accepting 10% less compensation. Somehow I think that most MOGs wouldn’t go for this…I wonder why?

        1. My IFB pastor FIL would write a check to the church every week. It always struck me as disingenuous. Granted, he & the church had separate bank accounts, but he still had access to both.

        2. I kind of understand this. If it’s a principle – that everyone SHOULD give 10% – then in a black and white Fundy kind of way, the circuitous nature of the gift doesn’t really matter.

          But then, I give to and buy tickets for the arts organization that employs me so I’m well familiar with circuitous giving. Many times on grant applications, I’m asked what percentage of employees give; it’s supposed to be a sign that even the people closest to the work of the organization believe it’s worth giving.

        3. Disclaimer: I don’t believe that tithing is taught in the NT, but, for the sake of argument, let’s just say that it is.

          Not to get to deep into it, but (in my estimation) the underlying problem is that this practice of the MOG tithing re-enforces the notion of storehouse tithing (i.e. all money flows through the pulpit). So not only do they carry forth an outdated OT practice, but they do it incorrectly.

        4. I also don’t see tithing in the New Testament, but I’ve never had a solid answer to my former pastor’s argument. He would say that tithing is Biblical because Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek, who was really Christ, and that was before the Law. True? Not true?

        5. Anyone basing doctrine on Melchizedek would be on shaky ground, I would think, because anything having to do with Melchizedek is super obscure and difficult to understand or apply.

          Even if we were to think we tithe based on that occurrence, didn’t it just happen once in Abraham’s life after he rescued Lot?

        6. Melchizekek is a bad example of tithing.

          1. It is a simple record of a freewill offering; not of a regular recurring mandatory “tax.”

          2. Abraham gave 10% of everything he owned, not 10% of his annual income.

      2. Our pastor used to make a big show of “forgetting” to put his money in the offering plate and he would call one of the ushers up on stage to put his check in. This practice was called “setting a good example” as I recall.

        2. My fundy pastor would always call the ushers to the front and have the head usher step to the mike to pray a blessing on the offering. Then the pastor would step out from behind the pulpit, pull out his wallet, take out a dollar bill (I never got close enough to tell for sure, but I think they were all singles) lean out over the edge of the stage, and drop the first dollar in the head usher’s plate.

          I’m sure he meant it as a good example, but even as a 10 yo, I wondered if this went against Jesus’ words about giving in secret.

    2. Bro Bluto, you’re right; Tithing is nowhere found in the NT.

      But this places us in a predicament.

      You see, without demanding the tithe by making it a Christian law you wouldn’t be able to budget for the MoG’s salary and payments on the mortgage for the HoG…both which are nowhere found in the NT.

      We’ve created a self-supporting institution which is established upon layers and layers of human tradition.

      B.R.O.

  11. Q: What is the role of women in the church?

    A: To make spaghetti cassarole using Mrs. John R. Rice’s hallowed recipe, babysit the youngsters, and keep their yaps shut.

  12. Q. 5. Are there more pastors than one?
    A. Not until the pastor’s son graduates from the Bible college in the trailer out back

    I LOVE how the Bible never mentions associate pastors or youth pastors and yet EVERY IFB church has at least one of the 2. There is NOTHING Biblical about a youth pastor. In fact, if we logic this through, the idea of a youth pastor is really scary!

    Here you have a 22-year-old fresh out of college and for several hours a week, you have no idea what this guy is teaching your kids. For all you know, this guy could actually be teaching differently from the pastor! We had this happen with one youth pastor. Now, I’m sure the kids loved him because he taught the kids that as long as they bless that wine they are about to drink, it’s o.k. — he did not teach that drinking alcohol was wrong like our senior pastor did. There were parents that actually left the church over this, too. We didn’t have teens so it really didn’t affect us, but we always wondered why a church has more than 1 pastor in it.

    1. I’m confused. I’ve had youth pastors in every church I’ve been in, non IFB included.

      1. non-IFB churches might be a little more careful over how the whole youth ministry thing is done, though.

      2. Lots of small churches only have 1 staff person or maybe a secretary staff person in addition to a Pastor. I was never part of any youth group when I grew up.

        1. I was confused over why it might not be right to have those other pastors, though. Any thoughts?

        2. I have seen first hand, Robot Gypsy, where the youth pastor and the pastor had different beliefs. One of our youth pastors was teaching the kids that as long as you blessed the wine you were about to drink it was o.k. Our senior pastor held the stand anything fermented was evil!

        3. I can see that. I’d just never had any experience with a situation like that. But yeah, there was definitely a breakdown somewhere in their communication lines. Much like a marriage, communication is key within a church’s staff.

    2. As others have noted, it’s not just IFB churches that hire youth pastors/leaders/coordinators to have a separate fellowship for Jr High/HS students. It’s fairly common throughout NA churches.
      The discussion of Biblical church leadership is long and involved, and I’m frankly unequipped to deal with it. I agree that a church which is under the leadership of a single person who is unaccountable to any other authority is ripe for abuse.
      About the problem of trusting a young person as a youth pastor – the issue of trust is a valid concern, and it needs to be met in a sensible way. If you’re concerned about what the youth pastor is teaching, then make sure that your relationship with your kids is sound enough that they’ll teel you. Take an interest. Volunteer to help out. If your involvement is discouraged by the youth pastor, that’s a bad sign.
      The question of alcohol consumption is particularly tricky when dealing with young people. The description of the teaching you give is vague enough to cover anything from a sound, Scriptural treatment of the role of alcohol in life to a flippant excuse to party hedonistically. For the youth pastor to teach something different from the teachings of the senior pastor would be a cause for concern – as a parent, I’d probably talk to the youth pastor in this case to figure out why the mixed message.

      1. I agree with many of your comments Der-Berater!

        First of all, I went from 30+ years of Catholic Church reign to an IFB where we were members for 15 years.

        I never realized until the embezzlement how corrupt our pastor was and how most of the corruption occurred because there were NO CHECKS AND BALANCES! He was free to do whatever he wanted to do. So in my opinion, this is the first and major problem with IFB’s — no accountability! This is how King Tommy (as I like to refer to our former pastor) was able to tell us that we weren’t going to prosecute the head deacon’s daughter, Shellie, (who was the bookkeeper) for embezzling $35,000 – $75,000 from the church. Many of us found out very quickly that there was NOTHING we could do — many of us contacted the police, state police, FBI, and IRS, and all the agencies told us that nothing could be done UNLESS someone who worked at the church — a staff member filed a complaint. The authorities couldn’t step in because a child wasn’t hurt, just someone “in the family” stole money.

        Now, 2/3 of the congregation was related by blood or by marriage so no one was going to prosecute Shelley or Bill. Now, this couple at one time told the church that Bill had CANCER. The church put on a fundraiser, the whole 9 yards, but when Mary Ann who was heading these things contacted Pfizer, they wanted a note from the Dr. — that’s when they left the church for a while. So after we joined, they came back for Round 2 of stealing from the congregation and got away with it –the embezzlement! King Tommy was told by several families that Shelley had a “checkered past”. She had been let go from 2 – YES 2 convenience stores because money kept coming up missing. They couldn’t prove she did it, but when she left, the stealing stopped. Again, even after several good families came to him and told him this after he announced she was going to be the bookkeeper, there was no checks and balances! King Tommy didn’t keep an eye on the checkbook, and he didn’t check out the validity of these accusations.

        I know you’re all going to love this one, too – this is another accountability thing – King Tommy’s daughter married Ryan. Ryan’s grandparents were big long time faithful figures in this church. So Diane (Ryan’s mom) has gone through a divorce and is trying to make ends meet so we hire her to come in twice a month to clean house for us. I set specific rules – 1 of the rules being “My husband leaves for work at 8 a.m. so do not come BEFORE 8 a.m.”. Slowly but surely, Diane starts showing up earlier and earlier and shows up in short shorts. One day, she shows up at 7:45. My husband is at the kitchen table eating cereal when she starts talking about how her ex-husband used to make her watch porn with him before they had sex! HELLO! My husband left his cereal, put his shoes on, grabbed his stuff and headed out the door and called me immediately. When we talked to King Tommy about this – HE TOLD US TO LIE TO HER AS TO THE REASON WHY WE HAD TO LET HER GO. He never confronted her on this, he had us lie for him!

  14. #6 — our former church has a pastor, associate pastor, youth pastor, church secretary, senior pastor’s wife is the principal, the school of 10 students has a secretary and 3 teachers. A new position that has been added since we left: Christian Care Coordinator — what the heck is that?

    Now, the pastor’s wife is the principal so she can earn $22,000 a year. The full-time pastor is paid $50,000 a year. Two of the teachers are sisters, and they share an apartment and split a taco bell meal if they go out are paid less than minimum wage. I can’t remember what the associate pastor was paid before we left, but before we left, the pastor decided to carpet their entire house (the associate pastor’s house) because they were wanting to have children — they weren’t pregnant yet, but we have to buy them carpet? Ironically, this same associate pastor mentioned to my house how terrible the carpeting looked in the vestibule and how it needed to be replaced. There’s a verse in the old testament which I can’t come up with at the moment that talks about man living better than God. The tabernacle was residing in a tent while men were living in luxury.

    1. Interestingly, the Biblical story is David telling Nathan the prophet that he was unhappy with living in a palace while God lived in a tent. While Nathan appears to approve of David’s plan, the LORD emphatically does not. So in the Scripture it appears that building God a permanent place to be worshiped is a human idea, acceded to by God.

      1. It seems this is only relevant if you believe that the Lord lives in a box that can be put in a tent (or cathedral or whatever). That Ark of the Covenant business always troubled me for that reason.

        1. Didn’t God sit ON the ark, on the mercy seat? The box was like a time capsule that contained the law and some souvenirs of the time… or something like that.

        2. BG – I understand your point, but I’ve always looked at it (the tabernacle) as God’s symbolic residence…similar to Heaven. Think of it as a Mailing Address.

    2. Did the pastor get a kickback on carpet sales?
      I don’t really see the connection between wanting to have children and getting new carpet. Frankly, I’ve never seen children (including me, back when) do anything with carpet except ruin it.

      1. “Did the pastor get a kickback on carpet sales?
        I don’t really see the connection between wanting to have children and getting new carpet. Frankly, I’ve never seen children (including me, back when) do anything with carpet except ruin it.”

        I never thought of the kickback — who knows — PROBABLY! He built an entire prophet’s chamber in his basement for his son and his family and turned all the bills into the church! His son’s pastor became the new head leader at Dr. Greg Baker’s Ajax, Ontario cult so the youth pastor had to step down too. He came to work at our church for awhile and SUPPOSEDLY our pastor was paying him out of his pocket, he was not payroll, but he was put down as working at our church for the medical insurance because they had a sickly son.

        As far as the carpet and the youth pastor — our senior pastor said the reason the church bought carpet for the youth pastor’s house is because we didn’t want that baby crawling around on hard, cold floors — again, no one was even pregnant then. My husband and I had a good idea for them — let the youth pastor buy his own carpet! Needless to say, the pastor made it clear that he didn’t have to get it approved by the congregation. He could do what he wanted — we weren’t voting on everything.

        1. OK, color me dumb, but…what the heck is a prophet’s chamber? And how does it differ from a man cave?

          (Now I’ve heard everything, LOL.)

        2. A “prophet’s chamber” is taken from 2 Kings 4:9-10

          “And she said unto her husband, Behold now, I perceive that this is an holy man of God, which passeth by us continually. Let us make a little chamber, I pray thee, on the wall; and let us set for him there a bed, and a table, and a stool, and a candlestick: and it shall be, when he cometh to us, that he shall turn in thither.”

          Before our pastor built his “prophet’s chamber, we had purchased a house that had a mother-in-law’s 1 bedroom house attached to the main house so we used this as our prophet’s chamber to house missionaries, guest speakers, etc., BUT our pastor built one in his basement (turned his basement into a 1-bedroom apartment) so that his son had a place to stay after he was no longer the youth pastor in Fostoria, MI. His pastor took of Dr. Greg Baker’s job after Baker committed suicide. Our pastor and Greg Baker were ‘good friends’. So while he was really building this for his son to have somewhere to stay, he had the church reimburse him for ALL BILLS. The property his house is on is also in the Church’s name — that way you don’t have to pay property taxes. Pastor signed land over to the church before building his house. Church already had purchased a house for him before this, he sold it (church let him keep the profit from the sale), built another house — sold that to the pastor’s assistant (lay person who just helped out the pastor) but before he sold it, he split the land — had to work the township to get them to split the land — the frontage was 4 feet short of legally being “splittable”. After it was split, he put the land in the church’s name so he doesn’t have to pay property taxes, but then he built a house on the land. I’m still trying to figure out how that mortgage (as he claims) is in his name. I don’t know of any banks that will loan money to have a house built on property that is not in your name.

        4. Apparently the area rugs wouldn’t be good enough for the youth pastor’s baby girl to crawl on That Other Jean. 😯

        6. OK, my reply goes up there with the carpet, not down here with the prophet’s chamber explanation. I can’t even blame george, just disqus.

      2. Our pastor once almost did a good deed. He discovered that our elderly church secretary needed new linoleum in her kitchen. So, he got a couple of deacons together (even my mother has described this as “one of the only times the deacons acted like deacons”) and they went out and ordered or some flooring and took care of it.

        Then, about two weeks later, she became the Sermon Illustration of the Day, as the MOG gently explained to us how no one cared about us as much as he did and we all owed him a huge debt of gratitude for being so amazing.

        1. It’s too bad he blew trumpets like that. I think the Lord would have really blessed him had he simply done a good deed with no strings attached.

        2. My old pastor always blew his trumpet on things he did, even if they were what anyone else would do.

          Example – The church (about 50 people on Sunday and 20 or so on a Sunday/Wednesday night) took up a collection to buy the pastor a used car. After a couple of years he decided to lease a new Lincoln. he gave the old car to his son. He would tell us form the pulpit how unselfish he ws because he gave his old car to his son! While telling us that none of us would have doen that because we are all too selfish.

        3. Scorpio — you guys got fooled into the “buy the preacher a car” thing, too, huh? Ours ended up with a CADILLAC! It wasn’t new, but of course, he had to have a Caddy because his buddies that he hung out with — Trieber, Jackson, Oullette — they all had Caddies!

          After we left, he sold that black Cadillac and bought a white one! I see the plate on the car — MRSPBC!

    3. Dear Dragonwing14:

      Then there is Hag 1:4, 9, where YHWH points out that while racing off to their own finished homes, that God’s own house looks like sack of peresh.

      Ezekiel 34 offers a corrective to those who confuse ‘feeding’ the flock with ‘fleecing’ the flock.

      Christian Socialist

    4. I think it’s a great idea to have a 22 year old male “youth pastor” spending lots of quality time with teenage girls.

      Also no pedophile ever decided to go into children’s ministry, did he?

      1. The problem is that the “youth pastor” position has been seen for a long time as a stepping stone to a Senior Pastor position – and not just in the IFB world. So unless it’s a large church, the position doesn’t pay much and is seen more as a slave or intern than anything…and you aren’t going to get older men with families to support to do that.

        1. See I came out of the Catholic church and went to IFB (yeah, I know — I really need my head examined). In the Catholic Church, there is 1 priest per church. The Vatican oversees the church. There’s no “interns”.

      2. Wow Bald Jones grad — I never thought that they came out of Bible college as pedophiles, but after all I’ve read about Hyles and Schaap — you’re right!

        1. I believe that Christian colleges are just microcosms of society at large, so all aberrations and deviations are likely represented proportionately in secular and religious schools. A subset of people are drawn to working with youth. A subset of that subset is drawn to youth work for deviant reasons.

  15. And every good IFB girl goes off to Bible college for at least one year to obtain a MRS. degree!

      1. Dear Catholic Gate-Crasher:

        They’re all ‘great’ to my mind. But I’d like to see A 8 amended by adding/substituting words, to read:

        A. Sometimes he tells us Greek words he doesn’t know and can’t be bothered to’ look them up or nothin.

        Christian Socialist

  19. Q: What color is for boys?
    A: Blue

    Q: What color ain’t for boys?
    A: Pink

    Q: What color is for girls?
    A: Pink

    Q: What color ain’t for girls?
    A: Blue

    3. That helps, thanks. Been trying to get those colors straight (see what I did there?). Blue is for boys, pink is for.. pansies!

    4. I missed out on the blue/pink thing yesterday. (Preparing for a mediation in a big case. It sucks!)

      I did think, however, that the answer to your third question was “blue denim and lace.”

  20. Q. What is the Word of God?
    A. The Word of God is the King James Bible, the inerrant and infallible translation of the Old and New Testament

    Q. How are we made partakers of the redemption purchased by Christ?
    A. By coming forward during the altar call or praying the sinners prayer to make a decision for Jesus

    Q. How many sacraments are there?
    A. None. The sacraments are Roman Catholic superstitions that lead people to hell.

    Q. What is thy only comfort in life and death?
    A. That I am not my own, but belong to the local KJV-Only Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church

    Q. What is effectual calling?
    A. A doctrine that contradicts my free will and was made up by the tyrant John Calvin who murdered Servetus

    1. Dear Caleb P:

      Thank you for this. I appreciate the refs to the WSC and the Heidelberger. Blessings!

      Christian Socialist

    2. Q. What is the Word of God?

      A. The Word of God is the King James Bible, the inerrant and infallible translation of the Old and New Testament…upon which the Greek and Hebrew Texts are based.

      Got to add that to be really accurate. :mrgreen:

  22. I think what is needed is a Fundy Proof-text Catechism:

    (Q) What is meant by “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away”?

    (A) The King James Bible 1611 is meant by “that which is perfect” and the charismatics are meant by “that which is in part.”

    (Q) What is meant by “Abstain from all appearance of evil”?

    (A) That we should not do anything that might make someone think bad about us or about our church.

    (Q) What is meant by “Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.”

    (A) What version of the Bible I use is meant by “word.” How I talk to others is meant by “conversation.” What I give to my church is meant by “charity.” That which has been broken by my parents’ rod is meant by “spirit.” Trusting in my pastor is meant by “faith.” And not having sex until marriage is meant by “purity.”

    (Q) What is meant by “Be ye not unequally yoked”?

    (A) The marriage of a two persons of different races is what is meant by “unequally yoked.”

    2. Dear Deacon’s Son:

      Unfortunately this story isn’t even remotely funny.

      When I was at HA”C” working a bus route in Chicago, we had a melanin challenged bus captain who was saved in a Black, Bible believing church. Apparently at some point someone must have decided that our route was getting a little too dark because one morning when we were picking up children to bring them to church, this bus captain (who was driving the church bus that day) started to make a left turn instead of heading straight to pick up some Black children who were standing on the corner about a block or two up the street.

      When I asked him what he was doing, he explained that in the past, the church had had “near race riots” and it became immediately obvious that he had been ordered not to pick the children up. These were not trouble makers, these were great kids! After he told me this, to my shame I did nothing, and to his shame he did as he was told.

      And so these wonderful children, dressed in their Sunday best, were left standing on the street corner, while the church bus drove away without them.

  23. Q. 11: What are God’s acts of providence?
    A: When a person tithes faithfully, the tires on his car last longer than usual, his children don’t get sick, his power bill is lower, his roof lasts more than the allotted twenty years…. When a person gets behind on his tithe, God gets his tithe, even if it means the firstborn must be hospitalized and diagnosed with an incurable malady! When the tithe is caught back up, the child miraculously recovers! Al glory to the tither! :halo: 🙂

  24. Q. Who does God love?
    A. God loves everybody, but there’s a few folks that God really, really likes and you’d better take care of them if you know what’s good for you.*

    *Who are these favored few?
    Hint: not the hungry, not the thirsty, not the stranger, not those in need of clothing, not the prisoner, and most likely not you either

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