373 thoughts on “Coffee Separation”

      2. Question – does your charity give money to organizations that want to destroy traditional marriage? Mhmmm??

        2. I just looked for the closest one, figuring on 1500 miles or so, and found there is one in Troy, OH. Next time I visit my daughter there, I’ll be dropping in.

      2. Is Josh a fellow Canadian?

        My previous comment was not posted… Is Darrell moderating my comments now too?! just kidding of course. It must have been a user error.

        1. Almost but not quite, Tim Horton did play for my beloved hockey team, although they finished in last place this year.

          We still couldn’t get McDavid!! But I’m a fan of Eichel, I hope Murray doesn’t screw it up…. and then Edmonton…. I mean come on…. the armpit of Canada is getting the greatest hockey player to enter the league since Gretzsky….pitiful.

          I’m probably speaking koine to many of you.. so I’ll stop now. Thanks for the latitude.

        2. Ahhh. This Josh. There have been an influx of Josh’s lately.

          I will be pleased with Eichel. Murray is building a Western Conference team here so I will take the bigger of the two. I like Eichel’s attitude. he will fit in well in Buffalo. Next year with Eichel, Kane, Reinhart plus whoever Murray obtains over the summer. Watch out. Sabres are going to push for a playoff spot.

          I’ll leave you with this regarding Eichel:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUDmfdTxLew

        3. Go Thrashers!

          Oh, crap. They did go. Stupid greedy dishonest lying owners, who only wanted the Hawks and rights to the arena.

          $$$$$$$$$ now. In our pockets, and screw the city in the process.
          Nope, not bitter or angry. Why do you ask?

        5. How can an expansion team be “back where they belong”?

          Winnepeg’s old team is in Hartford.

        6. Uncle – You are angering the hockey gods. The original Winnipeg jets are now the Arizona Coyotes. The old Hartford Whalers are now the Caroline Hurricanes. And unfortunately for you the Flames left Atlanta way back in 1980 and are now in Calgary. I still miss the Quebec Nordiques.

        7. I well remember the departure of the Flames. Back then I was a poor high school student with no money to support the team. I did support the Thrashers with my presence, and wish they were still here.
          When Atlanta Spirit LLC. sold the Thrashers, they claimed there was no local interest in the team. It turned out that there was, but the group wanted a quick ending. It almost seems the Spirit group had closed door talks long before any purchases or announcements were made, but to say that would impinge on their character or lack thereof, so I use the word “alleged”.

        8. Ice hockey shouldn’t be played in warm climates. Also, hockey season should be over by the middle of April.

          Just about every team makes the playoffs. Best of seven? Gah. Make it best of five for the semis and best of three for the Cup.

          Don’t mind me. I’m just an old lady who remembers Bobby Orr, Gerry Cheevers, Derek Sanderson, and the Adams Division. Ah, the good old days.

        10. There’s an ice hockey team here, but all the players are Canadian, and almost all the fans are from Canada and states bordering Canada.

          When one of them mentions ice hockey to me, I answer, “What’s ice?”

      4. Nope – I’m Canadian I don’t drink the local dishwater. If I have to buy coffee from a chain, I buy Seattle’s finest.

        But I prefer local haunts.

        1. Elitist snop, how can you shun the honest, hardworking, canadians coffee for a posh over roasted, over priced, over sexed (that one’s from the movie chicken run) coffee like Seattle’s best?

  3. When you are worthy, I will donate one of my many butt-cushions. Until then…
    MAKE BROAD THE WAY. I APPROACHETH

  4. It’s like the time I had a guy try to sell me “Christian” mutual funds. When I looked at the rate of return over the life of the fund it was pitiful…. I figured it would be just as irresponsible to invest money where I knew there would be no return. (I think I read a parable about that once)

    And if they were so “Christian” why wasn’t God blessing the fund?

    You can see the funds here
    http://www.timothyplan.com/

    1. With expense ratios like that, your rate of return gets even more pitiful. Fleecing the flock, as they say…

  5. When I was working at Delta Airlines during the “Great Disney Boycott”, someone at church overheard me say something about picking up a movie for the kids. They asked me why I wasn’t boycotting. It was so important an issue to me, I had to ask why. When reminded about the benefits issue, I asked, “Then what do I do about my job in 3-5 years when my company does that?”
    I was wrong. It was less than two years. I stayed. When I did leave, it was for an entirely different reason, and went back for a while as a contractor.
    I can’t remember who asked that question so long ago, but I figure they would disown me if they knew I had consistent contact with gay people, and even have their numbers in my phone.

    I’ve never been a boycott person. You can’t be consistent or non hypocritical about it. If I do get consistent poor service or one really big foul-up then you’re off my list of vendors,.

    1. There is a local restaurant that I’ve boycotted because they regularly fail to boycott salmonella, so I think our views on boycotts are rather similar.

      1. Quite likely. According to Barton, I guess I should also boycott family get-togethers from now on. HAH! That’s not happening. I love my family-ALL of them-too much.

        I wonder if he asks store clerks and wait staff their orientation before he makes purchases or food orders?

        I wonder what his views are on Muslim owned businesses? I’ve had some really good food labeled halal.

        Stupid statements open so many questions……..

        1. There’s a fantastically good halal restaurant on I-70 west of Baltimore.

          And it’s in Marriottsville, MD.

          Related to the Marriott Mormon family, perhaps? I don’t know and I don’t care. The food is incredible and the prices reasonable.

        2. If you are ever in Emeryville, CA I recommend Wally’s Cafe. It’s Lebanese. It is listed on Halal websites, so I guess it is. That doesn’t matter. As soon as you sit down a delicious bowl of lintel soup appears. The shawarma is very good, also. I’ve never been disappointing.
          Cash only, and fundies won’t like it because they share the building with a bar, and you have to turn up an ally by the bar to get there..

        4. Fundies wouldn’t like it because it’s halal. The other stuff is just extra.

          I didn’t know that there was such a thing as lintel soup. Is that anything like lentil soup?

        8. George, as I have stated before, is a jerk. But sometimes a funny one. I have been disappointing, but not disappointed at Wally’s.
          My typing skills stink, and I have a bad habit of clicking the word with a squiggle under it, and if the first option looks close, correct to it. I do prefer lentil soup. Lintel has too much fiber.

  6. Love my Timmies coffee and they don’t care if they are “Biblically Correct” or not, eh.

    1. I don’t drink coffee – I simply don’t like the taste, buy I do drink a lot of tea, and it will be the urination of me. I will have to check all the shop where I buy my tea to find out if any of them are destroying marriage…….

        2. I probably drink too much of both coffee and tea I keep a box of Twinings Irish Breakfast in my toolbox at work, and have some regularly at my 4:00 break.
          There is a nice tea shop on St. Simon’s Island where I got an interesting hot and sour tea. It is a rooibus base with rosebud and chili pepper mixed in. I like loose teas and a teaball, but don’t mind a bag.
          Miriam, I agree about “waving” the bag over water. I want the water boiling, and I usually leave the leaves in until I’m finished.

      2. Paul, I am also a serious tea drinker. Tim Horton’s is the only fast food place you can get a properly steeped cuppa over here. Most places sort of wave a tea bag over lukewarm water. Tim’s actually does loose leaf tea and steeps it so that it looks, and tastes, like tea. It is pretty good. I do not know what their stance is on Destroying Marriage but they do support youth hockey and camps for disadvantaged kids. I think that’s more important than what they don’t support.

        1. I hate to break it to you all but Tim Hortons is a huge supporter of TEH GAYZ. Did you ever hear when they have their prize giveaway contest? What do they call it? “Roll-up the rim to win”. Do I have to explain what the term “rim” means? It is a sexual perversion. Or so I have been told.
          🙂

        3. The big sidebar ad is for Rimmel lip gloss. I blame you for that, Scorpio. If you hadn’t mentioned “rim” then Big Brother wouldn’t have displayed that ad.

          You, sir, are a corrupting influence.

      3. Hate coffee also–the smell, the taste and above all the worship. (“Gotta have my coffee, even if I’m driving on the NJ Turnpike.”)

        For me, it’s English Breakfast and later in the day, Earl Grey. No decaf stuff, either. It would be like a fundy using the NRSV Bible.

        1. Tea without caffeine missing the point. That reminds me – I need to get the blood levels checked in my caffeine system.

        2. I have been known to yell at my coffeemaker “Tea, Earl Gray, Hot” from time to time.

          Starbucks is not my favorite, although their beans aren’t terrible, they just make it way to dark and harsh. I can sorta handle the blonder roasts.

          A couple local places do a better job on Coffee and Tea, Tim Hortons is good, and Dunkin’ is ok, but same thing as SB, I’d rather buy their beans and grind/make it myself, they go a little to far on the fine grind and use way too much to let the flavor be anything shy of motor oil when they brew it in store.

      4. Teavana is owned by Starbucks. Most of my tea and coffee right now is Teavana and Starbucks.

    2. All coffee is grown in the same rich soil.
      Regular coffee is made from the ground coffee beans.
      Decaffeinated coffee is made from the dirt.

  8. Boycotting is almost impossible. My folks did their best to boycott Disney. They didn’t really care until 1 of my dad’s friends visited there with his family on Gay Day (before the internet) and the park wouldn’t let him reschedule (regardless of where you stand on the homosexual issue, one must admit that the parades get pretty vulgar for kids between 5-10).
    What I found most interesting was that even the Fundies of the Royal Court of Fundamentalism preached boycotting while Disney while watching ESPN.
    You cannot boycott over certain issues, especially homosexual, because you wouldn’t be able to eat, sleep in a bed, power your house, drive a car, wipe your butt with toilet paper, or, worst of all, drink coffee.

    1. Gay pride parades* Gay Day at Disney. But then I’ve come to expect right wing extremists to play fast and loose with the facts when LGBTQ matters are under discussion, so I’m not surprised…

      * The almost-naked male dancers are a minuscule part of what goes on at Pride parades in most areas, which otherwise look rather “normal.” But that would undermine another facet of conservative rhetoric, so don’t bother letting facts get in the way…

      1. Sorry, that first line was supposed to have a not-equals symbol between “Gay pride parades*” and “Gay Day at Disney.” I blame George.

        2. Been to Disney during Gay Pride Week. Make no mistake…it was NOT kid friendly. I’m no right-wing extremist. Just a dad. I wouldn’t want heterosexual couples dressing or behaving that way either in front of my kids. Don’t be so “tolerant” or whatever that you lose your discernment. It was obscene and I should have to pay thousands of dollars to have my kids exposed to that nastiness.

      2. I’ve seen gay pride parades. They aren’t kid-friendly. Disney has a parade every day, and you expect me to believe they wouldn’t have a one on Gay Day? Gay themed parade or not, that day isn’t for children. It isn’t rhetoric, it’s common sense.

        1. Well, people like you tend to think that two men holding hands (why not two women?) is inappropriate for kids to see, you’ll have to excuse me, because I don’t trust your judgment for a second.

        2. Friends of our and my family went to EPCOT during gay week. It just happened to be a day we all could get together. We didn’t see anything that I would rather not have my son see.
          It was actually pretty funny. My wife’s friend’s husband was dressed in a grey muscle shirt and jean shorts…..exactly what I had on. Our oldest sons, who were 16 or so and big guys, were also dressed alike.
          Our wives teased us the entire time we were there.

        4. I’m much more upset at the thought of kids seeing crap like “Aladdin” and “Pocahantas” (the Disney vandalisms of them) than I am at kids seeing pairs of men or pairs of women holding hands or kissing.

        5. Bert Hooks, that is because EPCOT is boring. There is no partying going on over there.

    2. I’d like to boycott Disney because it keeps producing these horrible bastardizations of literature, plus brainwashing every little girl to think she has to be a “princess.”

      But it’s nearly impossible, now that Disney owns almost everything.

  9. So for his church’s members, being seen walking out of a Starbucks is tantamount to the same out of a liquor store? Maddeningly subjective and controlling

    1. Not quite. Going to a liquor store is malum in se. Christians should only go to grape juice stores.

      Going to a Starbucks is more like going to a movie theater – malum prohibitum, so to speak. It violates the command of abstaining from all appearance of evil. If an unbeliever saw you drinking Starbucks, they might think you support Starbuck’s attacks on Traditional Marriage and they might not get saved.

        1. Oh dear. I am pretty sure I haven’t “attacked” anyone’s mother other than my own from time to time. As for the rest of it, if they want to share their side of the story and/or version of events, I am pretty sure Darrell would be happy to let them accomplish that by posting comments here.

        2. The only thing you said about Mrs D was your little rhyme. It wasn’t an attack. Silly song, but not an attack.

        3. The reason why I think that is because it’s from that song in “Grease,” which is one of my wife’s favorite movies. I find this funny because, of course, fundies would never watch “Grease” or understand that reference. No malice intended whatsoever!!

        5. DS,
          Are you saying you’re not going to meet him on the playground after school and settle this?

  10. You simply can’t boycott everything. If you like their coffee, drink it. What are you gonna do, check every company to see what the heads of the company support or don’t support? That’s idiotic. We don’t like Starbucks coffee because it’s not very good. We much prefer Timmy’s or Mickey D’s.

    1. Mostly true. I have no idea what most of the retailers, manufacturers, or service providers I use support or don’t. But when a company makes a huge deal out of the owners’ beliefs. . .I haven’t eaten at a Chick-Fil-A or shopped at Hobby Lobby in years.

      1. Actually, what this country clearly needs is its own Christian coffee store chain. They could pop up in Hobby Lobby parking lots just like most of the Chick-fil-As have done.

      2. I’ve never patronized either business. Not for morality issues — I’m not going to drive hours just for a chicken sammich or embroidery floss.

    2. Hmmm-coffee boycotts, let’s see—–
      Brazil and Vietnam produce the most coffee. Even though it is the inferior Robusta bean that I try ot avoid, I can’t buy from them, between the human rights violations on the one hand and Carnival debauchery on the other.
      Colombia- at one time, and may still be, the kidnap capitol of the world.
      Indonesia- too many Muslims.
      Ethiopia- claim to be Christian, but don’t look like us
      India- Peace lovers hate Christians. I heard it from a preacher
      Mexico, Guatemala, Peru- Catholics. ‘Nuff said
      Most of the rest of the list- Samre problems

      #39 on thew list-USA oh, hmm–Hawai’i. Decadent beaches. And the Mormon’s are there.

      I guess any Fundy who drinks coffee isn’t avoiding the appearance of evil and must not be really saved.

  11. I have done my best to acquire a taste for Starbucks Coffee again and again. Its just not happening.

    For whatever reason Starbucks just couldn’t make a go here. We had several locations scattered all over but they all closed down except for one.

    You can twist yourself up in knots if you boycott every single thing that offends you. I refuse to take part in any…its a futile exercise that rarely affects change.

    1. I don’t particularly care for Starbucks, but there are two I have enjoyed more than others. The first was a short walk from my hotel in Beijing, and was the only coffee I knew of besides my abominable Folgers bags I carried with me. (The city I spent most of my time in had no coffee available as far as I could ascertain)The other was on the ground floor of my daughters apartment Building in Emeryville, CA. When you have to walk, you make do.
      There is a lot of worse coffee out there. Like the cheap stuff they claim is coffee at work, and any coffee poured into Styrofoam.

      1. I guess not many have been to Saskatoon 🙂

        I think I tried the coffee from the Moka bar when I was there. Not too bad.

        2. “You’d do anything to get out of Saskatchewan.”
          — Line from “Atlantic City,” (mis?)quoted from memory

        6. Well, New Jersey’s state song (I’m not sure if it’s official or unofficial at the moment) does say,

          “Whoah baby, this town rips the bones from your back, it’s a death trap,
          It’s a suicide rap, we gotta get out while we’re young.”

  13. Starbucks is giving .10-.15 of every cup to a gay marriage org? I can only speculate on their margins, but I’m guessing that much would about eat up their entire earnings. Uh, “Dr.” Barton, who designed that suit my friend? Clearly you can’t have David Barton in your church and be biblically right. I think this is a pretty simple concept

  14. I guess I see both sides. If boycotting makes you feel like you are doing “something”, then boycott. If you don’t feel inclined to boycott, then don’t. Either way, leave me alone. It’s like people who get into MLM….knock yourself out wrapping yourself in plastic and drinking shakes that taste like cardboard. But, PLEASE, leave me the heck alone.

    As for the idea that boycotting requires “all or nothing”. Actually, that’s not true. That presumes that you still spend money with them or even an equal amount. For example, if I had chosen to boycott Disney Parks and still watched ESPN, it would have cost them money. ESPN comes with my basic package and Disney Parks cost a thousand bucks a day for a family. It’s not necessarily the statement, it’s the impact of losing money that gets there attention. It’s far easier and more effective to quit spending $5,000 a year at Disney World than watching FOXSports rather than ESPN.

    But again…can’t everybody just do their own thing without making such a big dang deal? Boycott, don’t boycott. Be convinced in your OWN mind.

  15. That clip was very short (mercifully), so it might not tell the whole story. Did Barton, either before this segment, or after, present his audience of clapping monkeys with any proof that would convince anyone with more than a dozen brain cells?

      1. Ha! II Lady Semp! So you ADMIT you didn’t watch it! I knew this website was just a bunch of sour grape bitters who don’t know what they are talking about. Not watching that clip yet commenting anyway proves you are all still fundies like me! Mwahahahaaaa!

        Not my real sentiments. I just had to preempt any fundy trolls.

        1. I didn’t say that I didn’t watch it, you fundy! I’m just saying it’s zero time wasted if you don’t watch it.

          For the record: I am kidding “Dr” Eric. I do not for a minute believe that he is a fundy troll. I am in awe of his “doctorate” and wish I could have one, but alas, I am an innately ignorant woman.

        2. Where did you order your doctorate from, Dr. Eric? Maybe Lady Semp and I could impress other people with our fancy titles too. If the price is right, that is. Now (in my case) why am I thinking about the scarecrow in The Wizard of Oz when he received his diploma?

      1. Unfortunately I watched it and I can’t get my brain cells back. Would Jesus go to Starbucks? He never has any dealings with those who supported sin…

      1. I had some serious dreams after watching that as a kid. I don’t like motion pictures of flowers and fields, I can tell you that!

        B.R.1

        1. That was one of the movies that caused my family to attempt to ban me from from picking out movies to watch. I had to remind them who was paying for our Netflix account.
          Those Philistines in my house didn’t like Citizen Kane or Kurosawa movies either. I never heard any bad dream complaints, though.

  17. That’s it. From this video I’ve learnt I must stop buying my meat at the place that sacrifices it to idols. They’ve lost my business.

    1. I hadn’t been thinking of it in those terms, but I think you hit the nail on the head right there…

      1. That is fine if you feel that way, but in saying that-who are you implying is a weaker brother who is offended by your drinking of Starbucks?

  18. My purchasing products/services from any company does not constitute endorsement of political causes the company may donate profits to. Any pastor who tries to guilt me on this will find himself no longer my pastor. So far I’ve had no problems in this regard. 🙂

    The benefits issue is a sticky one. Despite all the opposition out there to homosexuality, as a society we don’t want to declare homosexuals mentally handicapped and then have to support them via disability. We don’t want to make it a punishable crime where we have to support them in jail. And we don’t want them shunned to the point where they all live out among the homeless. We want them to support themselves. So we incur a moral responsibility to make sure they have fair and equitable access to education, jobs and job advancement, equal
    opportunity housing etc. This includes civilized polite interaction at work and in our neighborhoods. The equal benefits at work issue becomes a sticky issue then for those employers opposed to gay marriage. Especially in smaller mom and pop type businesses. My thought would be to “de-maritalize” benefits for all, and simply allow where a named household adult companion could be covered, if I were so opposed to recognizing them as married. Rules about showing this is someone they either file a joint return with or or is shown as dependent on the return etc might be applied to verify it is a bonafide household companion. Part of the problem in trying to make things more fair is that the insurance companies may not allow this.

    1. “as a society we don’t want to declare homosexuals mentally handicapped and then have to support them via disability” What? Is this an actual issue?

      1. Haven’t you heard fundies whining about the APA taking homosexuality out of the DSM? Never mind that they did it because of the scientific evidence – therapists were unable to reliably separate gay people from straight people in a blind experiment based on a standard mental health test.

        And then there are the fundies who have said (on Youtube, no less) that they think they should be able to stone / imprison / otherwise get rid of us LGBTQ people. Mind you, this isn’t a super serious issue, unless one of those Tea Bagger Party theocratic nutcases gets elected.

        1. No I have not heard this. Understand that my brand of Fundy never actually used the word “Gay.” Sometimes “Homosexual” was muttered in an apologetic sort of way as if even the word would befoul them. The PBs I was with only ever talked about, “men leaving the natural use of woman” etc. I suppose I must have come across anything other than straight being considered a mental handicap but I can’t remember it. Surely I would remember something that appalling? I am appalled.

        2. I think the real solution here is just make TEH GAYZ stop choosing to have icky butt sex with other men.

          😉

        3. I’m sorry, I wasn’t trying to sound incredulous. My time in fundystan was about a decade ago, and on top of that, we’re in a more isolated rural area, so there wasn’t much talk of “men who left the natural use of women” (on a side note, how $%@&ed up is that phrase, when you think about it?).

          It seems to me that these diatribes are more widespread now due to the spreading of marriage equality and the ease of sharing one’s thoughts on the internet.

        4. No need to apologize. I am reeling from the mental illness thing. That is vile. I guess it shouldn’t be a surprise really. I have seen the heart of Fundyism and it is black.

        5. I can remember homosexuality being described as “a sickness” when I was young, although I haven’t heard it much recently.

          If it’s really a mental illness, then it ought to qualify people for disability benefits, the way schizophrenia or severe bipolar disorder does.

  19. Hey, I can buy Tim Horton’s coffee on Amazon! Cool. Canuck youth hockey for the win! Maybe we should buy some for Darrell?

  20. Just a little math. Starbucks net income in 2014 was 2B. Their sales was 16.448B, or so 12.5% of every dollar of sales ends up as income. If every customer was spending a ridiculous $10, that would be 1.25 in income. In 2013, Starbucks gave 15.6m in cash. So of their net income, .7% was handed out to all charities. Of the 1.25 per $10 order that makes it to income, .7% amounts to .9 pennies. Less than one cent to all charities. So what percent of that fraction of a penny going to all charities goes to homosexual causes? Vanishingly small. Drink your overpriced coffee drinks and move on.

    1. I think I’ll skip Starbucks and donate to marriage equality causes directly. More bang for the buck. 😀

  21. If he wants to be consistent with this, which I’m sure he would like to think he is, then he better give up a shit ton more things than he’s capable of. Starting with the financial support of businesses who give taxes to an oppressive government located on the other side of the World. Hell, our own government supports several oppressive governments around the world, so why is he paying taxes, and giving money to businesses who give taxes to that same government?

    The point is that everything and anything is connected in one way or another to everything else. If you want to live among civilization, then there’s no escaping this. So let’s just call these hissy fits what they actually are: A lazy attempt at sacrificing personal consumer preference to satisfy the religious need to publicly flaunt self-righteousness.

  22. It gets better. Does it financially support gay causes? Maybe. However, the support Barton is so upset about is an endorsement. Endorsement. Of 1. State. proposition. 10 to 15 cents? How about zero cents? Microsoft also supported that prop. Apple is pretty diversity friendly. You running a Tandy or Amiga back there El Barto?

    2. Apple’s CEO is a gay guy. Just for everyone’s information…

      1. We have three iPhones and two iPads. I don’t buy them because their CEO is gay and promotes marriage equality, but that’s a plus.

        1. You’ve just brought one of the biggest questions concerning the problem of evil.

          So Christians, for the most part will support a good cause. A lot of people go to Chick Fil-a because it’s a Christian company. Not just because it’s delicious. They’ll buy Christian music, despite some of it being terrible, etc. In the same respect, I suppose one would expect them to also stop going to, or supporting a company because they now do something they don’t agree with. American Christian culture undeniably votes big time with their dollars (the issue though is with consistency, but that’s beside the point).

          So one has to wonder, what happens when a good company, a company that supports a ton of good causes also decides to start supporting arms distribution to warlords in Africa. Or they decide to start giving money to pirates on the Somali coast? This company now gives money to orphanages, food distributors, cancer and AIDS research, but then at the same time gives money to what we would call bad causes like the above mentioned ones. What do you do then? What takes precedence? That bad stuff they do? Or the good stuff. It’s the same situation as me being a good guy that punches my dog in the ribs when I get home, but I hug my wife with all the sincerity in the world and kill my children. Am I a good guy? or a bad guy. If I save one baby from the flames, but push another one into a volcano, what am I? If the US government gives tax incentives to humanitarian causes, and even gives money to them, but attacks the center of a afghan town with complete disregard for bystanders, is the government evil?

        2. Kiss! I meant kiss my children, not kill. Good lord, what a terrible typo.

        4. KOACC – That was some typo!

          I think this discussion about coffee has george all hyped-up.

  23. It gets better. Does it financially support gay causes? Maybe. However, the support Barton is so upset about is an endorsement. Endorsement. Of 1. State. proposition. 10 to 15 cents? How about zero cents? Microsoft also supported that prop. Apple is pretty diversity friendly. You running a Tandy or Amiga back there El Barto?

  24. ~I am pretty sure there are only a handful of places that fundies can actually support…because whether they are giving money directly or giving money in how they invest–every company is supporting something fundies get their undies in a bunch over.

    ~Just once, I would like to hear a fundy call for a boycott or get upset over–child hunger and look at how american corporations are helping create poverty around the globe, or human trafficking and how american corporations are turning blind eyes or even creating the circumstances where slave labor is required to meet the demand for low costs in the USA.

  26. While perhaps addressing a slightly different issue, in 1 Corinthians 5:9-12 Paul writes, “I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church?”

    Paul acknowledges that it is impossible for us to avoid interacting with those who are not followers of Jesus Christ. Howard Schultz, founder and CEO of Starbucks, has never made any proclamation of allegiance to Jesus Christ so by Paul’s standard, we have no right to judge him; that is God’s responsibility (verse 13).

    Using Barton’s logic, we shouldn’t buy gas from companies that buy Saudi oil or other states that have financial ties to supporting terrorism. And what if the gas station owner has an addiction to porn, and 15 cents of every purchase is going toward a Penthouse or Playboy subscription?

    If you don’t like Starbucks or Howard Schultz’s position on social issues, don’t buy his coffee but please don’t try to spiritualize that decision.

    1. I think that whooshing sound I hear is the arguments about supporting terrorism going over the heads of 90% of all fundies. I guess only islamuc terrorism against america would causes as much horror is homosexuality. Porn is condemned, but only when someone gets caught reading it. Unless it is *gay* porn.

      2. Homosexuality may be a bigger threat than terrorism, actually. Cf the remarks of a legislator from my great state of Oklahoma. Skip to about the 1:00 mark, although it’s all “good stuff.” (Fun fact, after delivering this rant, this lady was (unsuccessfully) challenged in the next election by a transgender attorney in Oklahoma City.)

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFxk7glmMbo

        2. The only way that individual can make a true statement is by keeping her mouth shut. It’d be a formidable task to string together more nonsense than she did there.

        3. Ah, Oklahoma.
          I’ll have to play that speech for my wife.
          She was talking about moving to Oklahoma the other day …

        4. Your comment made me remember a transvestite who was running for some sort of political office in San Francisco years ago. Don’t know if he got what he wanted, but he wanted to be listed on the ballot as, “Nun of the Above.”

        6. Screw me running. And that hatemongering bitch gets elected. Probably not in spite of, but because of her hateful tirades.

  27. This comment is for Scorpio and any Canadians who are Leafs fans…. I hereby make a motion that we boycott the NHL and the Edmonton Oilers…

    I mean really, McDavid is going the armpit of Canada!!! Ridiculous….

    1. Leafs fan. Who is going to own up to being a Leafs fan? Sniffle. As for McDavid, he’s like Crosby on steroids.

      1. Hopefully Shanahan will right the ship. The NHL is better when the Leafs are good.

        And just another trip down memory lane. Tim Horton was playing for my Sabres when he died in the auto accident. I cried for a couple of days.

        1. Speaking of Tim Horton, Scorpio did you know that the IFB church in Hamburg has a Tim Hortons in there parking lot!

          I would go there just for that reason alone.

        2. I did not know that. I have 2 Tim Horton’s within 5 minutes of my house so I would pass on the opportunity to visit the one in Hamburg.

        3. I’ll see your 2 and raise you 5. I lived right by the erie canal and there is a Tim Hortons on Young Street, Eastern Ave, Creekside Dr. 3 on the boulevard on my way to the mall, Oh and did I mention my first high school job was 3rd shift baker @ Tim’s.

          Good times.

      2. Hey I owned up to being a Sabres fan higher up the thread, so no complaining 🙂

        As for Shanahan he’s cleaned house, get ready for Babcock!

        1. Not sure why but that reminded me of bubble gum cards with the players on them. That was where I first learned the hockey clubs and players. We did not have a tv. The devil’s megaphone. Wish I still had those cards.

    2. Also no winter tires. Hmm, google church bus accident. What are these churches trying to do? Kill off the bus kids?

      1. Be careful making comments like that here – we have been lectured here before that it is “disrespectful to the victims” of these accidents to point a finger of blame at the churches for running dangerous and poorly maintained busses.

        1. Worse to blame churches than for them to create victims? There’s some fundy thinking for you.

    3. As a Sabres fan, I actually wanted to see the Leafs win the lottery. McDavid and Eichel going head-to-head 6 times a year plus the playoffs eventually. That would have been awesome. Now it will be only twice a year and if both the Sabres and Oilers make the finals.

      I grew up on Hockey Night in Canada. Bob Cole, Dick Irvin, Dave Hodge. Those were the days. I really miss Ron McLain as the host these days. They have that new guy that wears the skinny pants and keeps glancing off-camera. Drives me crazy. And unfortunately Don Cherry, while still dazzling with his suits, has officially boarded the crazy train. But I still tune in every game. I love hockey. NHL playoffs are the best. If you’re not a fan, start being one.

      1. Don Cherry used to be entertaining when Ron MacLean kept him in check. Now, you are right, he has passed the crazy line. I love hockey but no-one loved it like my grandmother in law. She would sit a room and a half away from the a little black and white tv set and scream at the players in french. She is why I can swear in that language, lol.

        2. Apparently Rodney Dangerfield went to visit friend in Canada. The brought him to a fight and a hockey match broke out.

      2. Hockey Night in Canada! Oh how I miss Thee…

        As for Don Cherry, I don’t think he’s ever been off the crazy train. To much Timmy Ho’s I’m sure…

      4. And George is still causing me to mi s out let ers and put my smart replies in all the wrong places….

      5. I miss Hockey night in Canada….they don’t even show the Sabres games where I live now….not that I really missed anything this past season…

  29. This last winter was quite brutal, especially for someone like me who spent 18 years in Alabama and then moved back to Maryland.

    Congress and the President should consider invading Canada and abolishing the “Canadian cold fronts” that the weather folks harped on all winter.

    1. As a fellow Marylander, I support this proposition, although only if the Canadians cannot be diplomatically persuaded to keep their frigid weather to themselves.

  30. Jesus did NOT say, “as often as ye eat these scones and drink this coffee, do this in remembrance of me.”

    1. Way off topic but have you ever had those orange cream scones @ Panera…. AMAZING! I’d take that over a communion wafer any day.

  31. Don’t forget the ever-present hypocritical double standard of right-wing boycotting. When they do it, it’s righteous LOVE, saving America from gay fart demons (Google that phrase, BTW). When the LGBT community does it, it is gay mafia homofascist persecution of God’s holy church. GIVE ME A BREAK.

    1. I hope you’ll forgive me for not Googling “gay fart demons.” But that’s exactly the double standard that they employ. And did you know that if you put a sign on the door of your business that says that you don’t discriminate, you’re bullying them?

      I kid you not.
      http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/miller/140528

    2. I made the mistake of Googling “Gay Fart Demons” I whlish I hadnt. There isn’t a a wall that is strong enough for me to bang my head against.

  33. David Barton is a national treasure.

    I remember when he used to go to ATI conferences and blather on about how “the public schools” were failing to teach kids that all of the Founding Fathers were born-again fundamentalist Christians. (He gives this same speech in the get-down-with-Jesus churches, but he switches it to born-again evangelical Christians.) His “wallbuilders” organization collects papers of the Founding Fathers in order to “‘preserve” them and “prove” Barton’s insane historical theories. I remember as a kid standing and applauding him wildly for taking such a stand in the face of the floodtide of evil liberal historical revisionist “scholarship.” Now, it simply scares me to think that such a treasure trove of historical documents is in the hands of a man who honestly believes they must be twisted to support points about history that have no basis in reality.

    1. Barton is a patsy compared to Rushdoony, I’m looking at “The Messianic Character of American Education” as we speak…

      1. Rushdoony, the loony who literally wants to stone the gays, as well as the adulterers and a bunch of other “abominables” condemned to death in Leviticus. Yeah, he’s pretty much the definition of bat crap insane.

      1. ie David Barton needs a miracle. But do you think there a some things that God cannot do?

        (George needs a holiday)

        1. Is God powerful enough to create someone so dumb that he himself cannot fix him?

  35. The Mind of Hyles moves in mysterious ways, Its Wonders to perform…..
    This man was a psycho.

  36. What the heck does he mean by “biblically right”? He didn’t seem to tie this back to any passage in the bible. Is being “biblically right” something different than being “right with God”?

    Of course I am equally confused by what he means by traditional marriage. Does he mean like Jacob’s marriage to 2 of his cousins where he had children with his wives’ servants as well? Or like the tradition of a brother marrying his sister-in-law if his brother dies? Is he putting up dowries for his daughters or something? Which tradition is he talking about?

    1. And don’t forget the victim of rape being forced to marry her rapist. I’m not sure which of those traditions he has in mind…

  37. Dear David Barton:

    Starbucks supports the war crime known as the occupation of Palestine. I’m told that God supports the same war crime.

    What’s it like to have to choose between allegedly Biblical stands on Palestine and allegedly unbiblical stands on marriage?

    Christian Socialist

    PS: I quit drinking at Starbucks years ago because Starbucks supports its government’s occupation of Palestine.

  39. Nice to know that Barton puts as much effort, honesty, and study into his self affirming theology as he does his invented history. The man seems to have successfully dodged all contact with the real world, and doesn’t show any plans to make contact with it in his lifetime.

    Barton’s Fantasy Island would be a much better title for everything he’s written & spoken professionally ever.

  40. When I think of Starbuck’s, I wonder why there was not another local coffee joint, or small regional chain that got on the ground floor of the gourmet coffee industry, during the Nineties and became the national chain alternative to Starbuck’s. I know, it’s because of their aggressive clustering, through which they expanded. It’s that they are absolutely everywhere. I wouldn’t expect a one to one parity. It’s just that I would like a choice, especially if I’m out of town. Maybe somewhere between a 5:1 and 15:1 ratio of Starbuck’s to other recognizable (and comparable, yet different) chain cafe. I’m all for looking for that locally run coffee place, but Starbuck’s has done some fierce social engineering that has resulted in the coffee monoculture they created. I really don’t think they have actually created anything new, either. A serious competitor would have to create something appealing outside of the espresso and steamed milk paradigm.

    Howard Schultz’s delusions of being the underdog is for another post. In his mind, he thinks that he’s still running a small business.

  41. Oh, this guy. I used to work for an organization that subscribed to his brand of patriotism and would bring him through the area at least once a year. Even when I had not yet broken away from Fundy-ism – heck, even when I was at PCC – I couldn’t listen to his revisionist junk history without cringing.

    My grandma’s collection of Harlequin Historicals novels are more accurate than anything David Barton has ever written.

  43. I’m highly uncertain about this one.

    On one hand, I think people have the right to choose not to support a group with views they oppose, and they have a right to attempt to convince others.

    But usually, there is plenty of “sin” to go around – what company is it OK to do business with? I’m guessing that EVERY company, if you dig deep enough into their policies or the lives of their main officers, could provide a reason to “boycott” them.

    Having said that, if the company is very well known for taking a position, it may make more sense to support or avoid them. It wouldn’t surprise me that Starbucks gives money to causes which are are generally considered anti-Christian by the traditional Christians, I don’t really know how well-known it is – and David Barton saying so doesn’t make it so.

    1. I would have greater problems with groups or politicians who help prop up abusive and corrupt governments around the world than those that give money to gay rights groups. But hey, as long as they are on the side of the good ol’ US of A and are willing to stone gayz, how they abuse, uh, generously treat their own people can’t be all bad….

    2. It’s fine with me if David Barton doesn’t want to drink at Starbucks, just as I hope it’s OK with him if I don’t buy any of his hallucinatory “history” books.
      But if he wants ME to boycott some enterprise, he needs to come up with a coherent and fact-based reason for the boycott, not just his unsubstantiated opinion that it’s “not Biblically right.”

  45. The human rights campaign comes out with a corporate equality index. It rates companies based on how friendly they are to gay, bi, lgbt people.

    http://www.hrc.org/campaigns/corporate-equality-index

    If you look at the list you can’t own a car, buy gas, buy groceries, own store bought clothes, travel on a plane, or pretty much anything else that is normal to our society without doing business with a company you should boycott.

    Either these people are using the boycott card to continue a mind control of their people or they really believe this. Then their logical conclusion will be to create a compound where they live separated, growing their own food and being self sufficient. This will shed the vestiges of normal behavior and they will be revealed for what they truly are.

    1. If anyone decided to go that route, they would be unable to have any connection to the outside world. No communication. No travel. No commerce. Nothing.

      I’m not sure how they’d handle stuff like medical care, clothing, water/sewage, or any kind of tools/supplies/food. At some point they would need something from real life and have to pay some kind of compromising heatheren for help. It’s a nice idea in theory but not workable in real life.

    2. You would definitely not be able to live normally if you carried out all these boycotts. I think the only business that is still approved by organizations like the AFA is Chik-fil-A. Fortunately, they have decent food. I don’t know about they’re coffee though. Never tried it.

      1. Chik-Fil-A is rather pricey, though. It is harder to feed the family than from some other chains. The boycotts have helped them by giving the religious families willing to pay more.

        1. Ever notice that the truly religious, the Real True Believers, are almost all upper middle class blue collar workers, with plenty of money for big trucks, Chick Fil A, homeschooling, and a brand new self designed house 45 minutes away from the suburbs out in the country?

      2. They have a new coffee supply chain, some kind of direct from the farmer to them blend that is supposed to be more environmentally and farmer friendly that the large suppliers.

        I have had it, and it is excellent coffee, especially for a national chain type restaurant.

  46. “You can’t drink Starbucks and be biblically right.”

    1. If he lived in the first century A.D., I could see him saying, “You can’t eat meat offered to idols and be biblically right.” Except that the Bible clearly allows Christians the liberty to choose to eat such meat (or not).

    2. Under preaching like this, I was constantly worried that I wasn’t “right”. How blessed it is to truly rest in grace: “Therefore since we have been made RIGHT in God’s sight by faith, we have peace with God because of what JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD HAS DONE FOR US. Because of our faith, Christ has brought us into this place of undeserved privilege where we now stand.” (Rom. 5:1-2, NLT – caps mine)

    1. Amen. I have heard the “don’t eat meat offered to idols” used by those who say it’s wrong to listen to contemporary worship music, and that they are offended, so people should stop listening to it. But they never like it when they are lovingly told, “Oh, I am sorry. I will never listen to it around you. I did not realize that you are weak in that area. I would never want to make you, my weaker brother, stumble.” 😉

      1. It’s funny how the “weaker brother” is always some other poor anonymous sap…

        1. Exactly. I once heard a fundy who had this manipulation tactic turned back on him in this way say, “How DARE HE call me a weaker brother!” I will forever chuckle over that self-fulfilling prophecy.

  47. I work for one of the top 5 power companies in the US. They have supported gay couples with full family benefits for a decade or so. Are we ready to give up electricity?

    Also, David Barton really seems to have delusional facts at his disposal, including saying he was an interpreter for the Russian Olympic gymnastics team shortly after he graduated from ORU.

    Warren Throckmorton has a lot of great info on this and other amazing claims if you are interested….
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/category/david-barton-2/

    1. Given the famously intense security and surveillance that the Soviet Union maintained on its athletes, especially when they were competing abroad, it is absolutely inconceivable that the Soviet government would have allowed a U.S. citizen to be an interpreter for one of its teams in the 1970s.

      Barton can’t stop lying even when everybody knows there’s no way his stories can be true.

      1. Anyone who has the slightest knowledge of the USSR and its methods should know right away his claim can’t possibly be true. Talk about crazy.

  48. What he said: “You don’t have to become gay to win queers.”

    What he lived: “You don’t have to be a real shepherd to fleece the sheep.”

  50. I love this type of argument. I’ve been told to not shop at Target because they give money to abortion clinics and not shop at here or there because they give money to some other ‘bad’ organization.
    I will shop wherever I need to shop to get the things I need. I’ll pay for the things I want by exchanging my money for these items. I’m not “giving” money to anybody. What Target or whoever does with that money after they get it from me is NOT my problem. It is on them.

    I refuse to carry other people’s grudges. I have plenty of my own.

    1. Even if you shop at an approved store, who’s to say that the cashier isn’t going out after to work in her miniskirt to get another tattoo before drinking and dancing at a club somewhere.

      1. Here’s the thing, business entities have no morals. Their morality is nothing more than the bottom line. Any morality statements they make are simply on paper. And they can change their morality simply by changing what’s on file in their papers.

        This attempt to imbue businesses with a moral conscience is an extension of the fiction that businesses are people. It is also an attempt to create a new kind of economic serfdom for the lower-level employees. Companies are increasingly inserting provisions into their contracts telling employees what they can and can’t do on their own time.

        I am not happy with fundamentalism trying to make some stores approved and others not. It is ultimately about pandering and enslavement.

        1. I suppose businesses *should* be rub *by* people *for* people. I wish that were true in every case, but I don’t think it is.

      2. Businesses should be *run* not rubbed. The bigger the business the less human it becomes.
        My Father ran a small-scale clothing business. He had probably more Catholic customers than Protestant, perhaps slightly unusual for Northern Ireland especially an extremely divided town like Lurgan. He treated everyone with the same degree of respect, and was always scrupulously honest. He sold really good stuff too. He gained the love and respect of everybody in the town except a handful of protestant fundamentalists who thought he shouldn’t be “dealing with the enemy”

      3. I hadn’t thought about that. Damn! being a fundy is hard work. No wonder they feel like failures all the time.

    2. So, when the Apostle Paul went to Rome, and made some tents, did he say “Only buy materials from Christian suppliers.” Or did he refuse to buy meat in the pagan marketplace? See Romans 14.

      1. There was no Christian marketplace.

        There would later be a marketplace for lions to choose which Christians to have for dinner.

        1. Oh, so you’re saying Paul had to starve to death? Isn’t that what a good fundamentalist would do?

        3. What has changed? Let me guess, first-century Christians were thrown to the lions. Twenty-first -century Christians are thrown to the lawyers. You can reason with lions.

        4. Christians throw their enemies to the politicians. And, I dare say, they did it first.

          Then they get upset with people who wish to defend themselves.

          It all sounds like the Esther Scenario a bit in reverse. In Esther, the enemies of the Jews got the right to persecute the Jews and kill them and their families, take their goods, etc. Through Esther and Mordecai, a new law was make making it legal for Jews to defend themselves.

          Well, for untold years Christians have had the right to persecute Gay people, even having them killed. Their rights were stripped, they were imprisoned, etc. Over time Gay people have gained rights that were enjoyed by Christians and non-gays exclusively. Now they can defend themselves. And Christians are feeling persecuted.

          Christians are NOT being persecuted or told they can’t be Christians. They are being told they have to live and play nice with others, treat others the way they want to be treated, and give up being the group that gets to make decisions for everyone else.

          I know feelings are running hot on the topic. But the hyperbole just isn’t so.

        5. to be a christian in the first century was to go in a diametricallyv opposite direction to the dominant society of the day. That is true of christians in parts of the world today. In much of the West and especially in usa it has been much easier to be a christian – much of the morality of the society has given at least lip service to christian values. That may be changing. I think there may be a purging of the church and a lot of the battles christians shed blood over will become less important. Like same sex mariiage. Just my opinion. Anyway, there are many countries that treat Gays the way many Christians ( not just fundies ) think they should be treated. Saudi Arabia. North Korea. Afghanistan. I wonder how many Christians would like to move to any of those places

        8. The Baptist John was never an apostle. He was also Old Testament all the way. He died before Jesus did and was never part of the Church.

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