Doctrine

Persecution Just Like the Early Church

124 Comments

Because Christians are totally being thrown in jail and fed to the lions. Happened just last week in Peoria.

Update 1: After pushing the submit button and going to lunch I realized that I had actually embedded the wrong video. This one will make more sense with the title:

124 thoughts on “Persecution Just Like the Early Church”

    1. This post of our Pastor titled “Persecution” is like the old saying “the pot calling the kettle black” idiom don’t you think?? This entire website is dedicated to Persecuting Fundamental Baptists. The word Persecution by definition is “the systematic mistreatment of and individual or group by another group”. hmmmmmm So you are persecuting a preacher about a sermon on persecution? You should read your bible, talk to God, and realize the damage you are doing not to others, but essentially to yourself. You are treading on dangerous ground when you persecute God’s people.

      1. Unless you think making fun of Preachers called to Preach by our Lord is not persecution. In that case you just have entirely too much time on your hands and are in need of strong prayer.
        Why don’t you try to post something helpful to Glorify God instead of mocking and criticizing his people? Galatians 6:7 “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.” What are you reaping with all of this?

        1. Doodiemay: How do you know that this pastor was really called to preach? Even the great John R. Rice said he didn’t know if he was called, but he was going to keep preaching until God stopped him — that doesn’t actually mean he was called to preach. The Bible talks about false pastors and false doctrine.

  2. Are they about to sing in tongues? Not that there’s anything wrong with that probably.

    1. I’d rather hear nails on a chalkboard…. Makes my skin crawl… Performance oriented “specials” that reflect your social standing in the church more than they worship Christ:(

  4. I can’t understand the words. So I googled the lyrics for “All is Well” and got a Michael W. Smith song, and the words don’t match up. I just wondered what this young lady is singing. So I get back to the fact that I think maybe they’re singing in tongues.

    1. I found lyrics by Point of Grace but that wasn’t right either. If anyone knows this song or can understand what they’re singing can you please post the lyrics? I also can’t make out one word. 😕

    2. I always heard the reason IFB never did CCM was because the “old hymns of the faith” were “melodious music with words easy to understand”.

    3. http://youtu.be/XFmKb9TwUho listen to this and then you may comment. This is the same pastor, singing a “special”. I would also like to comment that listening to songs on the computer CAN NEVER replace or resemble the experience that happens when you are actually AT church where the HOLY GHOST is present. What a shame that so many Americans, who CAN attend church choose to watch it via computers. Hebrews 10:25 is a verse overlooked by SO many Americans who believe Joel Osteen’s Sunday morning televised service is a good substitution for worship. It really is sad.

  5. American Christian: “We’re being persecuted. We can’t fire queers anymore, or refuse to do business with them just because they’re queer. AND insurance companies have to cover ‘the pill’ if we provide health insurance to our employees.”

    Egyptian Copt: “I’m sorry, could you repeat that? I couldn’t hear you over the sound of my church burning and all of that gunfire. You said about persecution?”

    Peace,

    1. Maybe it’s just me, but debate over insurance and the Pill is an apple in a different orchard from this. 😕

      1. When Americans stop using the word “persecution” when they actually mean “annoyance” I will agree with you. Till then when an American Christian says they are “persecuted” ’cause an insurance company has to pay for contraception I will continue to say, “See Egypt, Iraq, Sudan, etc.”

        Peace,

        1. That is what about what I mean. There is considerable difference between having to risk your life and reputation for your beliefs, and being really really upset over your insurance company supporting something you don’t happen to like. 😕

  6. I often have wondered why churches feel so compelled to do special music when there are not enough good voices, good sound equipment, and good sound techs to make it all work properly. Congregational singing probably does more to encourage people and make them participants in worship than solos or “special music”. I mean, by definition, “special music” is just that: special. It doesn’t have to be performed at every service.

    As for the sentiments of the song: the young father waiting to hear on a biopsy report from a doctor, the single woman who just lost her job, the teenage boy who was raped at school and can’t bring himself to tell his parents: situations like these do exist in our culture. Granted, we are not being thrown to lions (for which I am thankful). But the idea that we don’t suffer, or that we don’t need the assurance from God that all is well in our standing with Him, is as incorrect as the other extreme of thinking that our culture is the entire focus of the struggle against sin. Here in healthy, wealthy, America, we still have legitimate pains and fears and need to know that we need the mercy and provision of God.

    Then again, like Bald Jones, I can’t make out a lot of the words they are saying as they sing. So if I am speaking out of turn, mea culpa.

    1. You’re right. Since they are every week, I once suggested we started calling them “mediocres” but it only caught on with a couple people. One day though…

        1. There is a nice, elderly woman at a very small church that I have visited on a number of occasions who absolutely loves to sing specials. Unfortunately she is an absolutely atrocious singer.

          It obviously gives her joy to sing and it really isn’t too much of a burden to endure her performance for the sake of kindness. Still, is the fact that a person wants to perform a musical special sufficient reason to permit them to do so?

          This may not be as much of an issue in a small church, but how does a larger church tell those who want to sing or perform instrumentals that they really don’t have a lot of musical talent?

        2. Careful Ben or you will offend this Pharisaical crowd of big performance and nightclub style music where only people with soft breathy voices or deep, raspy (smokers) voices are supposed to sing in their churches. Did any of you ever think that the reason the song didn’t have better sound quality is because the camera used to do the recording didn’t have a very good mic. Duh! Just another Mote and Beam moment for the Pharisees that don’t realize they have become what they hate.

    2. Our former IFB — we donated $1,000 to buy monitor speakers for the choir. Well, finally after we made a big fuss, some cheap P.O.S. speakers were purchased (probably at a yard sale) and set up; HOWEVER, they were actually NEVER connected to the sound system — they were just sitting there for show! The money was specifically marked for the choir’s monitor speakers. I’m sure King Tommy and his wife went to Ruth Crisp and had $100 steaks on our speakers! I don’t know how many times he would mention from the pulpit actually going there for dinner and talking about how everything was “ala carte”.

      I always thought it was a little pretentious for them to be dining at such an establishment when he was preaching how if we committed to buying that new car and having car payments, God couldn’t “use us” to be blessings to missionaries! Apparently, the only person King Tommy wanted to bless was himself!

      2. Wow! I’m glad I’m not the only one this sort of thing happened to.

        Our MoG wanted monitors, I priced them out and they threw a fit. They bought a $10 pair of “Roadmaster” brand speakers at Big Lots because they were black and small.

        I did get them hooked up but I had to build my own amp out of spare parts. 🙄

        1. Oh our MoG said they were “hooked up” — that his son — MoG Jr. — had hooked them up! Funny thing, I might be a woman, but I know if there is a cord running from one object, for it to work, it MUST be connected to another object — a magical connection isn’t made through thin air! So a dangling wire means you put out a decoration!

      3. Hey Moron, FYI – It is Ruth Chris Steakhouse and if you know so much about the sound why didn’t you offer to put your skills to work and hook up the speakers. Oh, wait! It’s always easier to be critical than to offer to help. Sorry forgot what website I was on for a moment. Stuff Fundies Like a.k.a. – Home of the Bitter and Angry Pharisees that have become what they claim they are not. Another Mote and Beam moment

        1. Well first of all, Mote & Beam, I’m not a moron.

          Secondly, Mr. Mote/Beam Smart Ass, I’ve never eaten at a restaurant that is ridiculously expensive even though I can afford it so possibly I spelled it wrong! My home is 100% paid for and so are both of our cars and both of our motorcycles.

          THIRDLY, Mote/Beam misogynistic pig — I’m a woman so even when I networked all the computers, they didn’t listen to me; and as soon as a qualified man joined, he took over network administration!

          Oh, wait! It’s always easier to jump to conclusions and be a dick than to ask a real question!

          “Sorry forgot what website I was on for a moment. Stuff Fundies Like a.k.a. – Home of the Bitter and Angry Pharisees that have become what they claim they are not. Another Mote and Beam moment”

          You must be a deacon in an IFB Mr. High and Mighty Mote and Beam :mrgreen:

    3. “the teenage boy being raped…”

      What??? I guess I wasn’t listening to the lyrics very closely at all. That would sure qualify as a “special” song in any church I’ve been in!

    4. Rereading your post makes me thoughtful about just what Fundies mean by “persecution”; it certainly isn’t what you’re describing, about a parent’s worries for a child, a boy being attacked and worse in school. 🙁

    5. My hubby and I were having a discussion about “specials” one day. Our conclusion: They don’t engage anyone. You just sit and listen. We’ve become spectators in our churches, sitting on the sidelines instead of being part of the team. I’ve never been a fan of specials anyway. After being in roughly 200 IFB churches, I’ve rarely heard one that really made me pause and reflect. Mostly I was just thinking I wanted to hide in the bathroom until it was over! I don’t mind them if there is some real talent, but I often feel they are done for the wrong reason. Worship isn’t about self-glorification, but glorifying Him.

      1. Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I love to sit and judge a persons motives as to why they spent all that time preparing to sing and try and be a blessing to me during the service. I know how you feel when you are so much more spiritual than everyone else in the room and never does a song speak to your heart. I sit and stare into space and think about lunch and where I am going to eat after the service. I often thought of hiding in the bathroom but then it would be so awkward to walk back into the service and there be a second special. It must be tough being so spiritual but that is probably why you are an “Ex” missionary wifey. Huh? Give me a break, lady you have one serious and very arrogant heart problem and you fit right in with these bitter, angry Pharisees.

        1. Oh and Misogynistic Mote and Beam: I AM bitter that King Tommy took advantage of so many giving people, including us, and I have a right to be but you just seem to have been born an ass.

        2. Mote and Beam, Fundamentalism focuses a lot on externals, yes?

          We’re told in order to glorify God, we must act a certain way, wear specific articles of clothing, speak the truth in love, etc.

          So it’s hard to switch gears from “must project perfection” to accepting the flaws inherent to others.

          I grew up IFB. My mom has a Master’s in music & had me matching pitch as an infant. She taught me proper classical vocal technique before I started school. I am also naturally gifted. I have a huge vocal range: from D3 to G6. I began singing in church when I was a pre-schooler. I was overheard singing the National Anthem at a baseball game when I was fresh out of high school & approached by a local musician who asked me to front his jazz ensemble.

          When I heard “specials” in church, I was usually embarrassed that person was allowed to sing in public. And when I sang specials, it was all about me, me, me.

          Intuitive people just know things. It doesn’t make them judgy.

  7. Wondering what ever happened to the butt cushions for first? I don’t even try anymore…on another note would have loved to see the piano player or maybe not…

  8. Of course to some super-sensitive types ANYTHING less than total and abject devotion to their Man-O-gid and his words is persecution, even “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”. 🙄 Or having to see those “Coexist” bumper stickers. Or having to live with the fact that gid is not smiting homosexuals left and right. Or would-be converts actually *gasp* 😯 NOT LISTENING. The list is endless.

  9. This lady doesn’t really grasp the concept of ventriloquism. It’s not enough to just throw your voice, you also need a puppet.

  10. The only thing I understood was when they sang, “All is swell.”
    Swell used to mean things were going well, so I don’t understand the persecution part.
    These folks need singing lessons from Jake Hess. He may have looked odd, but he enunciated well.

  11. I found it interesting that one of the options YouTube gave me after this ended was a history of moonshine video

    1. Most of the Youtube options after the “singing” were for moonshine/making your own still.

      I heard “Jesus” and “Alpha and Omega” but not much else. I need an interpreter for this song, or one of those infernal karaoke machines. Better yet, I’ll just go to a karaoke bar and have a drink.

  12. Definitely oppression and persecution going on in Peoria. Why, not long ago, an innocent missionary was slaughtered in her own home by a godless heathen asshole.

    Of course, the godless heathen asshole was her own husband …

    1. Dear PP,
      Wow. An internet search showed you are spot on with this incident. I hadn’t heard about it, probably because I’m a few thousand miles NW of there.
      BJg

  13. Ok, I’m at work and can’t watch – but I live in Peoria. What is the church?

  14. Of course we were having a freaking blizzard – so only the true believers would be showing up.

  15. Illinois has marriage equality now, so I’m sure plenty of fundamentalists feel like they’re being persecuted because gay and lesbian couples can get married in the Episcopal or UCC churches down the street. I can’t say I’m convinced that that qualifies as persecution…

    1. Oh nooooo, that’s EXACTLY what the Fundies are talking about! That two men (or women) can take legal vows and settle down to live together and that the LAWD His Own Self does not IMMEDIATELY smite them with lightening is one of the biggest signs that This Is No Country For Real True gid-Fearing Xtians! What is next, dogs and cats living together? 😯 OH the shame, the horror of it all! :mrgreen:

      1. Hey! Wait a minute! I have a dog and a cat in my house, does that mean I’m haurboring sin in my house? A house of ill-repute?

        1. Well, dogs are unclean, OT-style. And soft. And cuddly. And warm. And lovable little creatures. I just can’t help but love them. 😀

      2. Back when I had a dog and a cat, they lived together and even slept in the same bed together when it was cold weather.
        But I guess that would probably offend some Old Testament purity law or other (don’t plant two kinds of seed in a field, don’t blend fibers in a garment, don’t yoke, two different animals to a plow, etc.).

    2. It’s all a case of what Jon Stewart recently termed “Expressing Anger and Victimization Over the Loss of Absolute Power and Reframing it as Persecution of Real America by Minorities, Freeloaders and Socialists.”

        3. Since the scriptures don’t provide us with a detailed description of Christ’s physical appearance after His incarnation but prior to His resurrection, it seems reasonable that this is not something we should be arguing about.

        4. I think it is pretty clear from scripture that Jesus was Middle Eastern Jewish, not Caucasian as commonly portrayed.

        5. “… this is not something we should be arguing about.”
          Yes, exactly.
          Yet people argue about it.
          Why, why, why?

        6. Well, of course Santa has to be white — I have never met a black person that likes the cold!

          :mrgreen: 😆 :mrgreen:

        7. Hi Phil,

          We know from scripture that Christ was male, Jewish, and born in Bethlehem. We can also infer that he must have looked enough like His disciples that it was necessary for Judas to kiss Him in order to identify Him to those who came to arrest Him as opposed to simply pointing Him out based on some obvious physical difference. And yes, it was night. Anyway, that being the case, it would seem extremely unlikely that Jesus would have passed for a blue-eyed Norwegian, or for a Nigerian, or a Mongolian for that matter.

          Still, unless the prophesy in Isaiah 53:2 is at least in part a reference to His physical appearance, I don’t see any biblical description of Christ’s physical appearance during His earthly ministry. Add to that that Mary Magdalene didn’t recognize Jesus Christ after the resurrection until He spoke her name, and it seems that God didn’t place much emphasis on what Jesus looked like.

          God is no respecter of persons and it just seems to to me, if God doesn’t make a big deal of the matter, why should we?

        8. @ Phil again,

          Assuming you’re using “Caucasian” as being synonymous with white European, you make a good point about the typical Western portrayals of Christ’s appearance though.

      2. Makes me think of this season’s classic skit on SNL by Kenan Thompson as St. Nick: “Santa Claus is black as hell!” If you missed it, it’s hilarious.

  16. I studied voice in highschool. I’m no professional singer, but I know enough about good vocal technique that this sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

  18. Please learn diction. [Almost] no one wants to hear vocal exercises.

    If you want to sing while mic’d in front of a group, please consider recording your practice sessions with said equipment. You will immediately know when to move the microphone away so the sound isn’t over-amplified to the point of buzzing. You will also be alerted to the fact that your lyrics are unintelligible. (See first paragraph.)

    Had I been sitting in this service, I would have suddenly discovered a fascinating pattern on the church carpet.

  21. “This government is not for us. This government is not for any of our faithful.”
    –Sunni member of Al Qaeda, speaking of the Syrian government as he leads a suicide bomb squad(hypothetically)

  22. I now realize that the reason why my own preaching is so ineffective is not only do I not preach from the KJV, but I don’t yell and rant enough. Obviously I’m not a real man of GAWD.

    I am curious to know if IFB churches make ear plugs available to who attend to filter our the screeching music and droning preaching.

      1. A lot of IFB preaching reminds me of quote from the flick Billy Madison: “Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

    2. Just remember that Abraham Lincoln liked to see a man preach as if he’s fighting a storm of bees. 😀

  23. Now, on the good part, I have to make a comment. Five years ago (while we were still at our IFB) I was diagnosed with cancer. I can remember so many songs that just blessed my heart while I was going through my firey furnace so I can see special music as being a blessing to so many people who are going through various trials, tribulations, tests, or whatever you want to call them — Plesae just don’t call them God punishing the sinner.

    I learned through my walk through the valley of the shadow of death that God can and will use so many different things — people, music, notes, e-mails, and even little kids (or at least in my case, He did) to let me know I was not alone and that He WAS with me with every step, and He was able to comfort me.

    My favorite inspirational song — His Eye is On the Sparrow, and the other song that really was an encouragement to me was Lynda Randle’s God On The Mountain Lyrics

    1. Oh, dragonwing14, those last 2 songs you mentioned remind me so much of my grandpa! I’d made a tape of myself singing inspirational songs (including “His Eye Is on the Sparrow”) for my grandma to listen to during chemo. After my grandpa was diagnosed with cancer, he listened to it during chemo, too. He told me the only song he wanted added to the tape was “God on the Mountain.”

      I wish that I’d put my legalism aside & just recorded the song for him. He’s been gone nearly 5 years, now.

  24. Regarding the 2nd video….it reminds of when I used to live in a van down by the river.

    1. but if you were living on a steady diet of government cheese, you then joined with the Great Satan and persecutor of the church…lol

  25. Y’all are being way harsh. For a trio composed of a blob, a blur, and a communion table flower arrangement, I thought they didn’t sound half bad. Especially considering the earthquake that was apparently transpiring during the service.

  26. Darrell wrote: “Update 1: After pushing the submit button and going to lunch I realized that I had actually embedded the wrong video. This one will make more sense with the title:”

    Oh, I don’t know. I felt pretty persecuted listening to that first “joyful noise” special all the way through.

  27. I wonder if the young lady singing is the daughter of the MoG who sings with her. If so, my heart goes out to her for all the reasons we’ve recently discussed about the victimized offspring of preachers or missionaries.

    I was one of those preacher’s kids “encouraged” to sing specials in church, and now I wouldn’t sing in public to save my soul. And, provided I went to church, that church would be grateful for my refusal.

  28. I had to turn it off…. All I heard was hate, arrogance, narcissism and pride. No spiritual depth. No love of people. No desire to be blessed and be a blessing. Just some dude who determines his worth as a MoG by how loud he screams and how offensive he is. Because, don’t we all know that the more people who are offended, the more right the message was…. Haymen? #gag

    2. If he were preaching like Jim Standridge, he’d be yelling, “You’re not going to amount to JACK SQUAT!!!”

  32. We’re in about the same place as a nation as Jerusalem was in the book of Acts?!? Talk about totally dissing what the early church went through! 😯 😥

    1. So true! As my husband says about fundies, and especially fundy preachers, “They are a mile wide and an inch deep.” It looks good on the surface, but no depth at all. No real understanding of what they Bible is actually saying. They never read it in context, especially a cultural one, if they bother to read much at all. There is no real understanding of theology. It’s just repeating what they’ve heard. Our deputation days proved that if you’ve heard one sermon, you’ve heard them all. As for persecution, we don’t have a clue. Fundies like to imagine they are ‘suffering for Jesus’ but would they hold up under a true test?

  33. Actually, I quite agree with this preacher. As a mainstream religious leader I don’t want him preaching what he is preaching. After all, it’s just so embarrassing, making my God look such a muppet.
    Worth taking him up on a point at the end though. He claims that the church in Jerusalem was bravely spreading the gospel without fear. As a church leader I just love Acts 8: Persecution breaks out in Jerusalem and the church scatters, with the exception of the leaders. Where does the church then see incredible growth? Not Jerusalem, where the leaders are in control, but everywhere the people were scattered and are now without leaders. Church leaders tend to hold back growth more than encourage it. It’s something to do with keeping people content and insulated.

    2. In my new musical about the Life of Christ he will definitely at some point go away into the mountain alone and sing “Am I a man…or am I a muppet!”

  34. It seems that this message was preached at Harvest Baptist Church, Dawsonville, Georgia. If that is the case, consider the following.

    Dawsonville population : 619
    Racial composition : 97.58% white
    Median income per household : $34,327
    Churches with Dawsonville zipcode : 30

    One can only imagine the hellish persecution that this MoG must face each and every day.

    1. That is the hometown of Awesome Bill from Dawsonville.

      And that would be former NASCAR driver Bill Elliot.

      1. THIRTY churches in a community of 619 people!!?? I’ve heard that religion is a big business in the South, but that’s stretching it just a bit. Talk about covering all your bases!

        1. Suggests that folk there are really good at falling out with each other, which is of course a very Christian thing to do.

        2. While it sounds ridiculous in denser populations areas, rural places like that often seem to have more churches than the population would seem capable of supporting due to the large area they cover. The missing data is the 230’ish square miles that is covered by that zip code opposed to what most of us think of as a zip code being < 50 square miles.

        3. A lot of the churches in this rural, mountain community (like many other rural areas) have been around for a very long time. A time when people went to church without the benefit of automobiles. In the early days some of them would have shared a pastor, who would preach at a different church each week. As transportation improved, the churches stayed individual, since no one wanted to give up “their church”. Many of them are still run by the same families who started or helped start them generations ago.
          They welcome visitors warily, and woe to any newcomer with a new idea!

  35. I don’t know if it due to ratings or if they are true believers or if it is about ratings but I find Fox News’ recent “War On Christianity” push to be disgusting. Often important details are left out of these stories leading folks to believe that any day now the gov’t is going to shut down your church and throw your pastor in jail. Christianity is really not doing themselves any favors with this paranoia.

    1. “..any day now the gov’t is going to shut down your church and throw your pastor in jail.”

      I used to hear that almost every week from the pulpit. Of course followed up with the question/challenge of what will we do? Will we stand for the truth and go to jail too?

      1. Scorpio – Did your MOG ever do a “skit” where masked men (actually the deacons) storm into a service and ask who is willing to confess Christ and go to jail (or worse)? I think the braintrust at Hammond pioneered this.

        1. Oh my. He never went that far. Just your typical fundy guilt trip that the pastor is holier than you.

      2. Or will we stand on the sides, trying not to grin, and secretly rejoicing that the ghastly truth has been exposed at last? :mrgreen:

  37. Persecution? Your can bet the farm that if there was any real persecution, guys like this would be the first ones to lam it out of town (see: Chuck Baldwin’s excuse for going to Montana. Yes, I know that Baldwin allegedly went to Montana to get away with his “severance” package…I am talking about his stated reason.)

  38. Most of the time, the screams of “Persecution!” from the Christian Right in this country boil down to “When we/our parents were kids, anybody who wasn’t just like us had to either pretend to be just like us or stay out of our sight, and if they didn’t we were allowed to do anything we wanted to put them back in their place. And now we can’t. Hu-BAAAAAW!”

  39. Dawsonville also has a place where you can legally buy moonshine. It’s also where NASCAR began. Bootleggers would run moonshine from Dawsonville to ATL and outrun cops, etc.

    Good times…

  41. My Observations (not that it matters)

    1. I have no problem with the music. The ladies were singing from their heart and their desire was to edify the church. They aren’t in front of a panel of vocal judges and to criticize them because it wasn’t a perfectly polished delivery is a bit snobbish and lacking in grace IMHO. Just because its sung by fundies doesn’t make it bad.

    2. Why was the pastor standing next to the singer? Was it his wife? He wasn’t part of the group singing so did he just have nowhere to sit during the song or is he so insecure that he has to stand with the group to show that it is MoG approved?

    3. I’ve heard the paranoia and cry of “persecution” my entire life from IFB pulpits and to be quite honest. We here in America don’t have a clue what persecution really is. Go overseas and find out, but somehow these preachers never “feel led” to go somewhere dangerous.

    1. http//youtu.be/XFmKb9TwUho
      If you can’t understand the Pastor and his wife and very talented daughter singing All is Well, then take quick listen to this. Then you can comment on his talents.

  42. This is a Pastor and his family singing together. They are from GA. He Pastors a small church north of Atlanta. His daughter is 16-17 yrs old at the piano. She writes a lot of the songs they sing. I know this family personally and they are good folks. The daughter loves to sing and play the piano. In person she is very shy and reserved. Whey she sits at the piano she sings from her heart. As for IFB preachers that don’t go anywhere dangerous you should check your facts. When Iraq fell into American control IFB preachers were the first to go into Baghdad and plant a church. Five preachers were ambushed on the highway and sustained heavy gun fire into the van they were riding in, killing one Pastor and wounding another. If you want to learn more: http://www.dansouza.org/Iraq/iraq_attack_on_pastors.htm Once again though we have the Pharisees pointing their fingers and making accusations against the work of the Lord.

    2. Mote, If you read my post, I was defending the ladies singing. I honestly couldn’t see or hear the pastor singing so to me it didn’t look like he was actually with the group so it looked strange to me. It makes sense now that you explained it. Like I said, I have no issue with the music or the song. I happen to have a special place in my heart for families who sing together as I used to sing with my sister all the time..and no..we weren’t all that good.

      Also, to clarify, my reference to preachers was not directed at those who actually went to those fields. I know of missionaries who have been kidnapped and held for ransom and of those who have been killed. These weren’t just stories, these were people I had known personally. My point was to those preachers who cry and wail persecution because of petty meaningless crap like saying “happy holidays” instead of Merry Christmas or because they took down the Ten Commandments at the courthouse. Some of these men don’t have the testicular fortitude to actually go to these places to help the men you spoke of. That..sir..was my point.

      I continue to be amazed and marvel at how defensive people in IFB really are. I was once in that group and now that I’m out..it gives me new perspective and made me realize just how much of a bubble I lived in.

      1. …and another thing! Why do you insist that the work of the Lord only is done by independent Baptists? Having taken off my blinders, I see the work of the Lord being done by so many other brothers and sisters in the Lord who aren’t KJVO, wear pants instead of dresses, and even sometimes wear shorts and listen to music with drums and guess what! THE LORD is glorified and their work is blessed by HIS hand too, not just the little country IFB church.

        I realized something this weekend when I was partaking of the Lord’s Supper and it was at a non fundy church. I realized that these men and women I was standing with were brothers and sisters in Christ that I would have never met until Heaven and never spoken to, or had anything to do with because they weren’t of “the right church”. It brought tears to my eyes and shame to my heart that for so long I would be skeptical of these people because they read an NIV and raise their hands to worship. They are not second rate christians, they are not being disobedient, they are not the ones who are just the wedding guests while the Baptists only are the Bride. If anything..it may just be the reverse.

        I love so many aspects of my Baptist upbringing and heritage, but I can no longer in good conscience, be the paranoid, defensive, angry, self righteous, divisive, self centered, elitist jerk that I was because I was in a “Bible-believing” church and had all the “right” doctrine while looking down on all those so called worldly christians out there living for themselves. God forgive me!

  43. Just got around to watching the video, and that’s super classy & awesomely theologically accurate the way he starts off blaming the Jews for killing Jesus.

    I’m assuming no one there has an irony detector the way he spent a good 45 seconds complaining about Christians how complain?

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