This coming week marks ten years since I graduated from Pensacola Christian College. Many people recall their college days as among the best times of their life but I am not among their number. To celebrate a decade of freedom I’m going tell five different stories remembered from my time there.
I invite you to take a trip with me back to the brick halls of your own Fundy U to recall a time when the rules were many, the privileges were few and the price we paid was far too high.
First!
I think! 😀
I hope. 😕
I guess… 😐
Second. And totally awesome idea.
Wanna split a butt cushion? 😀
That is so kind of you! But…I think my ass is too large for that.
I don’t have too many good stories from my days in my fundy Us.
I did make some good friends during my time there, and for that I will always be thankful.
Yikes. It’s eleven years for me. I have some tales for sure. Looking forward to reading yours.
Dear Something Different in the Air:
Don’t feel bad. I wouldn’t post how long ago I left Snob Clones if I had a gun pointed at my head …
Christian Socialist
He didn’t say they were GOOD stories.
That means they are the ones worth telling. 😈
I never went to a fundy school, I went to the “heathen university” instead and ever since that I’ve had the mark of cain among my fundy church and school.
I’m sure there will be some whoppers on PCC and of course Hyles-Anderson.
One of my friends who is still in fundamentalism sent me a video on facebook of girls wearing pants at Bob Jones 😳 Since when did Bob Jones allow girls to wear pants? I thought 60 minutes would do a special on it, but I digress.
BJU allowed girls to wear pants to gym class (as long as you walked behind the dorms), for some jobs, and (I think) to non-dating society outings as well as in the dorms.
I’m still shocked that they’re now letting them be seen much more publicly than they were back in my day, but the dress code was more like “let’s be a good testimony” than “if you’re a woman in pants you’re a Jezebel” that marks some other fundy Us.
What about shorts and CCM music at Bob Jones?
When I was a student in the mid-late 90’s, we were allowed to wear pants in the dorm and in the back areas, like sports fields and stuff. About 3-5 years ago, they were allowed to wear pants in public off-campus. Not on campus, oddly enough.
A friend showed me a video of girls wearing pants on campus in the dorms at BJU. I kind of wished I went there instead of the “Heathen” San Jose State. The girls in the video are quite lovely and The Tubes “She’s A Beauty” is playing in the background strangely enough.
4th and I’m anxious to read and tell! I’ll be back… Going out to enjoy this amazing weather!!!
We are survivors and strong together and as individuals!!!
~~~Heart 😀
Cool! I love stories from good storytellers!
I’m thinking about my time of Total Fundistutionalism; it was pretty intense and I regret what I put my family through, 🙁 but there are several parts I do miss, 🙂 including our senior class trip. Only now do I realize I was gypped: other students get to go to Europe; me, I got to visit Gettysburg. I lived in Ohio! 🙄
Hey, don’t be hatin’ on Gettysburg. I grew up there. It is quite the destination spot…or not. Lol
In truth I’m glad I went, would love to see it again, one of our country’s most tragic and worthy soils. 😥
Didn’t see any ghosts and am most sorry I didn’t.
Went here with some friends many years back and did Picketts Charge… drunk… and hungover… both…
my senior year at NVBS I attended “College Days” at West Coast and at Golden State Baptist where they did “skits”. One of the students at Golden State told this joke of a pastor and Joe Walsh (Eagles) going into the hotel and the next day Joe Walsh was saved and the preacher was destroying hotels. I was surprised that a fundy college student could get away with that joke and since I was “evil” and listen to classic rock I was the only one that got the joke. Good thing Pastor Triebor wasn’t there but that’s another story.
Ah Darryl…since we both want to the same “Fundy U” (And yes, at the same time…lol),I’ll share with you a story from my time there.
I recall having a friend who feel under personal conviction during her time there that she needed to wear a head covering to church. Not sure where her beliefs came from, since she said she did not grow up wearing one, but she was a friend, so I supported her decision to do as she felt she should do.
However, she was called into the office several times by admin, and they threatened to revoke her leadership rights on campus, and take other “disciplinary measures” if she did not pretty much bow to their authority, in spite of what she felt God was telling her.
While I personally did not really agree with her beliefs, I was appalled at the way they were treating her, and convinced her I too believed n what she did (Hey, I was being a good friend, don’t judge!)and started to wear a head covering too. I wasn’t going to let my friend sink alone.
Lol…guess who was called into Dr. Mullenix’s office promptly? Mullenix then lectured me for an entire hour about why my stance was wrong,and even suggested that my “beliefs were leading me on a slippery path to hell.” I dared to challenge him on why he was so scared of freedom of thought (within a Biblical context)at which point he ordered me out of his office, and gave me 75 demerits. Just for asking questions.
Hate those spiritual intimidation tactics! And the way they exaggerate. Yeah, right; a woman who feels led to wear a head covering is on a slippery slope to hell. Their lack of perspective is mind-boggling.
In the end, what I think it comes down to is $$$$. They can’t make mommy and daddy unhappy — they’re the one paying the tuition (usually). So if little Michelle comes home from PCC involved in some doctrine that her parents might not like, her parents might get mad, tell their friends, get their church involved, and PCC might lose some of their customer base so they’re willing to treat their students badly in order to keep the parents paying.
Probably some of that, and also, they can’t allow students to follow their own convictions or else the rule system become unenforceable.
Slippery path to hell? What happened to “once saved always saved”? By the time I was there PCC did a good job of appearing polished to oursiders. However, the stories I hear of people who were called into the office over doctrinal issues are crazy. One man told me one of the senior administrators told him not to read “Neo-Evangelical books” because his momma always taught him, “The B-I-B-L-E, yes that’s the book for me.”
There were quite a few Mennonite girls there and they were allowed to wear their doilies.
The Mennonite issue was handled differently since they cover all the time rather than just during services. That was the word I got, and I did understand the small distinction to some extent. They also made a distinction between Campus Church services and chapel. Chapel services, I discovered were not viewed as worship services of any kind, apparently. I ended up in a compromise with the dean’s office to cover for CC services, but not chapel.
Yes, I understand the distinction between a Mennonite and a young woman who came to the head-covering conviction on her own.
I mean, I’m not saying it’s a reasonable distinction, but I do see how they can make it. What it comes down to, though, is image. Mennonites can be given a pass since they’re recognizable and always covered. Women who dress normally but cover in church won’t look right for their image. Plus it’s vaguely old-school Catholic, so can’t have that.
Chapel wasn’t worship? First, doesn’t the Bible say where two or three are gathered in His Name, He is there? Second, isn’t the Word being proclaimed? Third, isn’t worship a matter of the heart?
I know why they had a problem with it; the funny thing is the spiritual gymnastics they went through to try to find a holy-sounding reason for forbidding you to use a head covering.
The distinction makes sense. One of the Roman Pontiff’s titles is “apostle.” C.J. Mahaney used to refer to himself as apostle also. The difference between the two is that Popes are elected to an ancient office using procedures that are centuries old. Charismatic fundagelicals just start their own institution and claim titles for themselves. There’s a huge difference between following rules that are an established part of an established religious tradition and freestyling.
A friend of mine at Jaw Bones didn’t like the rule requiring females to wear a hat to church (because 1950s social styles were the One Correct Biblical Way, y’know?), so she started wearing a baseball cap.
Letter of the law, but maybe not the spirit, eh?
The administration were not amused.
Oh, PW, was that a serious question, “Isn’t the Word being proclaimed?”
Honestly, now.
Ah, MSK! I WAS making an assumption that the Scriptures were being taught, but, you’re right, too often it was only man’s opinion that was being proclaimed.
PW…you are making the mistake in assuming there was a legit “church” in the congregational sense at pcc. It was forced attendance for starters. the “preaching” was contrived and prooftext fundy “doctrine” designed to control the student population according to the Hortons intel on what the current issues on campus were every week. I am sorry but you cannot have a “church” with forced attendance. I do not think there is a reasonable counter to that argument. Chapels were worse.
I look back now and wish I had broken the rules more and skipped out on all of those wasted hours of monotonous religious drivel.
When was this? I’m curious because I went through a headcovering thing. Funnily, my experience made me completely lose any residual respect I had for the VP in the Dean of Men’s Office–Goddard maybe? I’d have to look him up. I don’t think he’s there anymore–but actually get to know Ms. Baer in a nice way. She treated me quite nicely and we came to a good consensus. He treated me like crap. It was a weird experience.
I’m wondering what they make of 1 Corinthians 11:5-6?
“But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.”
Now, in full disclosure, I’ve got to admit that I don’t think that chapter makes a lot of sense. But it is Bible, and it’s not terribly ambiguous.
Aside from all that, I find the claim that wearing a hat could send a woman to hell most astonishing.
Dear Micchelle:
Questions are good! The problem is that the theological ‘system’ (loosely interpreted) of some people cannot sustain any serious, Biblical scrutiny.
I`d have had questions myself … plenty of them. I doubt that they`d have gone over well.
1. I believe that Scripture should judge our work of Biblical interpretation and our received traditions. Do you? God is able to keep and to save. Are there any compelling reasons for doubting that? Is it wise that those who live in fear should shape the faith perspective of our youth?
2. My position is framed respectfully and scripturally, and 75 demerits suggest an excess born of earthly passion. Without implying that demerits have redemptive import, can you validate these 75 demerits biblically? So that my specific offense will be known, will you please indicate to which recited Biblical text these demerits apply?
Christians live in a graciously given realm where there is neither male nor female, Jew or Gentile, bond or free. Have you considered the implications this has for our authority paradigm in family hierarchical relationships, in church relationships and in schools? Do we have the moral courage and theological integrity to ask this?
The New Testament shifts away from external ritual purity and toward purity of motives and dispositions of the heart, away from defensiveness and separation and toward confidence and mission empowered by the Spirit, away from efforts to replicate the original creation to reach out instead toward the new creation. Since the overall agenda of Leviticus with its purity laws was radically transformed by the Gospel of Christ, why do so many church/school rules/regulations attempt to reintroduce such codes as Christ abolished? Does this not put us out of step with the New Testament, with the will of God, and with the moving of the Holy Spirit?
Have you considered that a faithless refusal to live in graciously given freedom may put one on hell’s road?
Blessings!
Christian Socialist
interesting. I’ll have to ask my former roomate if she was ever questioned on churchtime head covering. I’m pretty sure her “leadership privileges” weren’t revoked as she was an apl,pl, or floor leader probably every semester except her first. How she did all that and volunteered for everything under the sun while getting great grades with an absurdly heavy course load…I can’t fathom. PS, Michelle, do I know you? Wondering if I am guessing at your identity correctly. The Michelle I am thinking of is my FB friend and we have 9 other FB friends in common.
Oh, and the most ironic thing is that there were some international students and Mennonites from birth who were able to wear their head coverings in public without fear of reprisal.
I also brought this into question, and was told “it’s their culture, and they came here with them.” So I guess if it was part of your childhood or culture, you’re exempt from the “slippery slope to hell” that newer converts are sure to receive 😕
I’m so glad I didn’t attend a fundy college. They’re really no different than fundy high school.
Same dress codes (except in college men have to wear ties).
Mandatory Chapel.
Constantly monitored.
No ccm music, dancing etc.
Students ratting out students.
Need I say more?
Actually, I disagree. I went to a Christian College and Christian High School. Much more freedom in my high school.
Your tie is crooked. Your shirt is rumpled. And you don’t have a smile on your face. Why are you not cheerful in The Lord?
This picture demonstrates that in your heart you were in rebellion against PCC. You wouldn’t see me taking a picture like that at PCC! You should have been submitting to their authority and guidance. Now look at you.
Wouldn’t he get a “Demerit” or have to go to “The Principal’s Office”.
“Your trouser cuffs are dirty, and your shoes are laced up wrong, you’d better take off your Homburg, ’cause your overcoat is too long.”
Not Procol Harem’s best work, clearly “Whiter Shade of Pale” is numero uno, but it certainly describes the rules at fundy U pretty well.
Listening to their music did give me newfound appreciation of the organ…
To celebrate the freedom, my wife and I went out for dinner and drinks with a friend who graduated from a fundy U. I didn’t go to one of those schools. Just grew up fundy. Had to drink some water and wait an hour before I could drive home!
Hey. I never creeped. I take offense at that. 😛
What was your major I think I remember u
Computer Science
I invited my parents to my PCC graduation (in the summer). My dad arrived on campus wearing shorts, much to my horror.
He’s a former dean of a secular college (and member of the state accreditation board). When I took him on the guided campus tour he had fun asking the guide a lot of probing, technical questions regarding the college’s policies and accreditation. The guide did a fairly good job of making up some reasonably intelligent answers.
Why did your dad let you attend PCC? He obviously knew the value of an accredited degree.
I had previously graduated from an accredited college. The PCC program I as enrolled in was just a summer-only thing. I didn’t have to quit my day job. Yes, my son is approaching college age and I would never encourage him to attend an institution where the lack of proper accreditation could be a handicap to his career goals.
Naturally, because, of course, having a good career is the ultimate goal in life.
Not impressive, Guilt.
Not impressive at all.
Passive-aggressive garbage.
Kudos, though, for nailing it so perfectly. That is just the sort of nasty thing those nasty people would say in their efforts to bully someone into continuing the process of being defrauded of their hard-earned money in pursuit of a worthless degree.
This should be interesting Darrel. The only good thing that came from my time at fundy U was my wife. But we both agree that our time and financial resources were wasted. The lie that fundy churches feed young people regarding not needing accreditation is so morally inept and unethical that words fail me. It can leave a person unable to find decent employment and struggling financially for life.
Speaking of accreditation at my fundy High School (NVBS) we had to listen to a sermon in Bible Class called “Accreditation” by Jack Hyles who our school and Pastor worshiped. Luckily I tuned everything out and we weren’t tested on it and I went to the “Secular-Heathen” University that is San Jose State University 😀
Mr. Dow looks like a miserable Air Force ROTC cadet.
(It’s the general blueness of everything he is wearing.)
I remember in one of our classes a male student asked the president/pastor of the college why it was wrong to kiss a girl before getting married. He replied “I am not so sure it is wrong. You wouldn’t buy a car without test driving it, would you?”
I don’t know yet if anyone has mentioned this. What I regret more than anything else is buying into the idea that we were to spank our kids until their “wills broke.” I didn’t beat my kids in the strict sense of that word, but I was so strict, especially with my son. I can’t write any more than that – it was an awful part of fundamentalism and I hope and pray my children don’t repeat my mistakes.
I dunno about this one. There is a difference between the Will and the Spirit.
When I was two or three years old, we lived on a busy street in Minneapolis. Our front yard was fenced. I decided that I didn’t want to be fenced, so I started climbing it. My dad grabbed me and told me “No.” I pitched a fit. When he let go of me, I started climbing the fence. He spanked me. I fought him.
What was my dad to do? Let me go? Spend the rest of my childhood holding me so that I wouldn’t climb the fence? No, they needed to know that I wouldn’t get myself killed…that I would stay in the area that they had approved (the house plus the garden inside the fence).
He decided that this was a battle that he could not afford to lose, and so he spanked me until I stopped fighting him, letting me go every few minutes to see me run out at that fence again, whereupon he resumed the battle. As soon as my cry lost its rage and I allowed him to hold me without fighting him, he stopped. My will broken, and I never tried it again. But my spirit sure wasn’t broken, as anyone who knows me can attest! I earned a few more spankings over the next ten years, but I never again raged against my parents as I did that day. The “chastening” and “scourging” I received that day was from my father who received me; who would still lay down his life for me. This was not abuse; I was a knucklehead who needed to learn a lesson.
As that battle raged, my mom lay on the bed and covered her head with a pillow. My dad was sick to his stomach. It was 45 minutes before I gave in. It makes me sick to my stomach to imagine having a battle like that with my own kids. I thank God that none of them is as hard-headed as I was.
I am SO thankful that my parents fought that battle; that they didn’t lose heart. My dad told me, years later, that he knew how important it was for me to obey a voice command; to obey immediately, especially on that busy city street. He tells the story every once in a while, and his voice still breaks as he tells it.
I have friends whose children are as stubborn as I was, and I tell them, “Don’t quit! Don’t lose heart! He needs you to be stronger than he is! He needs you to win this battle!”
Your father could have gotten the same results by explaining the reason for the rule and telling you that if you couldn’t follow it, you would have to go inside, then following through on that statement. Or by redirecting you to another activity until you forgot about climbing the fence. No matter what he had done, you would not have still been climbing over that fence years later, so there is no need to “hold you forever” to keep you safe.
I appreciate the thought, but your way would have gotten me dead.
I wasn’t reasonable. You cannot reason with an unreasonable person. Not only was I two or three years old, I was in a high rage. I wanted what I wanted. Redirecting me wasn’t going to work. You don’t understand what a strong personality I was at that age (and now, for that matter). I wasn’t listening. He tried what you suggested, and it didn’t work.
Dad needed to do what he did. I needed him to do what he did. He was right.
In another case, with one of my nephews, Dad did what you propose. Because it worked with that one. He wasn’t trying to do something that was going to get himself killed; he was just pitching a fit. Every time Dad saw him start up, he wrapped him up and hugged him and talked to him (“I love you. I will not let you pitch a fit. When you settle down and control yourself, I will let you go.”) until he stopped his screaming and raging. That method worked for that kid, for that situation. It is important to recognize quickly what method is required for each kid and each situation. One size most certainly does NOT fit all.
Bottom line: if my Dad had been a squishy man that day, afraid to spank his punk brat of a son for being a punk brat, I shudder to think where I would be today.
Coed naked chapel: don’t get caught by the organ. 😈
Dear Tp31babe:
Not good. If I walked into chapel naked, people would flee for their lives …
Christian Socialist
Been 21 years since I graduated from TBC in Jacksonville, FL and then 3 years since seminary. Not much has happened in the way of ministry since that time. When I graduated from college, I was single and 22 years old. I was told because I had no experience and was unmarried that no one would hire me. Well how did they expect anyone to get any experience if no one would hire them. I did serve briefly at a mission board for 3 years, not all bad, but very dysfunctional at best. Came to seminary in 2002, met my wife while here got married, took several years to get an M.A and an MDiv. Been done with seminary for 3 years and now no one is hiring, the excuse now is the economy, and now I am older and no one seems to want to hire anyone who might be a bit older…
Bible college did nothing to teach me how to make a living (academic standards barely on a high school level) but I did mature and learn the value of hard work. I also made some good friends and found my long suffering wife. It was a poor choice by an immature young man from a troubled home but some good came from it, no thanks to the IFB. My real life began with the growth and maturity that developed from dealing with the destructive nature of fundamentalism.
Very naively, with my encouragement, my daughter went off to PCC last fall. After discovering the ugly underbelly that we didn’t see on campus days, nor did we read about it in the handbook, she has decided that this will be the one and only year at PCC. Final straw: she and some friends were having a Bible study (of their own volition) and singing with an acoustic guitar. It was the highlight of her week, having gone from a free, Christ-following home to an oppressive legalist environment. Any former students have probably guessed the outcome–the staff somehow found out about it and shut down their gathering. (I’m sure they’re being carefully watched, too, based on what she’s said). I just told her, “Well, now you know that following Jesus is kinda hard when you’re following so many rules, huh?”
She works until Thursday, and then I am driving to pick her up. In our most recent conversation she said that she needed the address of the place we are staying that night (it’s a seven hour drive home and besides, I want to visit the beach) so that some kind of “check out card” will be approved. Really? It’s none of their business where I’m staying! After she gets picked up by a parent, do they really, really need to know how long it takes us to get home?
I’m tempted to give them the address of a very seedy motel in a red light district. And wear shorts to pack her things. And maybe a fake tatoo. I’m definitely playing Mandisa’s “Shackles” with the windows down on the way off campus. 👿
You are very right that there is a side to most fundy colleges that you don’t know about until you’re there. How disheartening to realize that they felt intimidated by a gathering of young adults who were studying the Bible and praising God. Legalism has stifled grace, and their need for control has choked out the liberty we are supposed to have in Christ.
And their demands about knowing your travel plans? Wow. It’s like their need for power has gone to their heads and completely obstructed common sense.
“Legalism has stifled grace”–very good way to put it! These are adults we’re talking about, not eighth grade juvenile delinquents. I’m glad my daughter still has a sweet spirit and doesn’t blame God for a few who claim to speak for Him. Apparently she was asked to preregister, and when she declined they gave her a paper to fill out. One of the questions was, “What could we do better?” She wrote something about grace and liberty. I’m proud of her for sticking up for herself (albeit a small way) and for having the presence of mind to understand that she’s not the one in error. Their demands are inexplicable, and their leadership methods are Machiavellian, at best.
Good for her! I wish now that I had left when I wanted to (after the first semester / maybe year).
Just imagine how those Fundies would scream if a state college banned a private Bible study that some students were having on their own.
(By the way, I have never heard of any state or secular college doing such a thing, ever.)
Plus Marching Bands are considered a sin because they have……….DRUMS!!!!!!!
Better yet, dye your hair some bright (temporary) color, wear a tank top & shorts, & apply multiple temporary tattoos. 😈
Yes, hair color! Great idea… 😆
@biblelover, wish I could’ve met her. I remember seeing a group with a guitar doing a biblestudy/praise thing. Glad she was able to…run before she’d put in too much efort and $$$.
I’m graduating. Its amazing the mixture of love and hate. Love some of the people, even the crazy ones 🙂 and just ready to leave. Cut ties, move on and get a degree that will actually be recognized. God matured me a LOT, really helped develop my critical thinking, but…I’ll finally be able to breathe.
@lukewarm, It sounds like you two could have been good friends. She tried to seek out likeminded people to encourage/gain encouragement, but didn’t find many.
Congratulations on accomplishing four years of hard work. May God grant you time to heal and some breathing room. I wish you godspeed in your next phase of life!
Your evil plan makes me think of a story. My sister was still a student at West Coast Baptist “College” when my aunt and cousin, who live in LA, came on Thanksgiving to pick her up to spend the holidays with them. Afterwards, we were all regaled for hours about how EMBARRASSING it was to have my hippie mother-goddess-type aunt in her earth tone tank top, maxi skirt, and organic jewelry pull up in her hybrid with an “oppose proposition 8” (or whatever the pro-gay position was) bumper sticker. My sister actually got in trouble for hugging her male cousin because he has a tattoo of an eagle on his chest. (Now, admittedly, it’s a pretty “in yo’ face” tattoo that he got in Thailand and which mortified even his extremely liberal parents.) Anyway, the most cringe-worthy thing for me was having to listen to my sister go on and on about how uncomfortable the whole experience was for her. Just another example of the “isolationism equals sanctification” mentality of her Bible school.
Understand completely. 👿 I did not go to a fundy school (thank God!) but my younger sister did, PCC. We were at my parents home for the holidays and she got into a fight with my youngest sister about the rock station we were listening to on the radio; demanded that we turn that “sinful noise” off. Next thing you know there was a major fight that only ended when she tossed the radio into the trash can. I was massively pissed off at both of them, especially D, who IMO had completely over-reacted to a little David Bowie. (For the record, this was the girl who was a major Molly Hatchet and Charlie Daniels fan back in big school.) The irony was, about this same time my kid brother had joined the army and I got to look at his training manual and her handbook. IMNSHO, J had it easy.
The really, really sad thing about that story is that your sister seems to have embraced that paradigm, because otherwise she would have been embarrassed about any negative reaction she got from the school, not embarrassed for her relatives (who were kind enough to come pick her up for a holiday–anyone who has been away from home on Thanksgiving has been grateful for a local adopted “family” for the day). Expecting your sister to give your tattooed cousin the cold shoulder, for example, is far more egregious than displaying political preferences on a bumper sticker or getting a tattoo. If he weren’t a Christian before, do they think it would make him want to come to Jesus if she did refuse to hug him? (Fundy logic at its best!)
oops, sorry…that was supposed to be in response to Deacon’s Son.
Oh yes, gotta love West Coast “College”. I already told everyone at NVBS I had no intention of attending Golden State “College”. I even told Pastor Triebor that, he wasn’t happy. A “recruiter” from WCBC came to NVBS to talk about WCBC and I said I had no interest unless Bro. Martinez and I could sing “Tequila Sunrise”. The “recruiter” thought I was serious. A friend of mine wound up going to WCBC and told me that the R.A. plays the L.A. classic rock station in the lobby when no staff members are around. Maybe I should have gone there after all. I hear they take their students to Lakers games ❗
@the heat is on “I hear they take their students to Lakers games.”
Cannot be true, No way. You’re gonna make me go back to school.
I can’t believe it either. Maybe they’ll play Hotel California too.
What do the Eagles and IFB schools have in common?
You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.
There is no need to go out of the way to be offensive to them.
Perhaps the year will be of some good in the future.
You know, of course, that your child will become a tale of “one that we lost to the world”, no matter what the outcome is…
Yeah…they will most certainly go out of THEIR way to be offensive to YOU.
In Christian love, of course. With holy hearts and arrogant attitudes.
@guilt ridden–I’ve been praying that my response will be Christian charity (even if I have to speak the truth), with a sincere concern for their well-being instead of a desire for revenge. I have to admit, the mama cougar in me is sorely tempted to show her claws. How would Jesus treat them? Honestly, I’m just hoping not to have to talk to anyone but my daughter’s beloved roommates and her other friends.
The Bible study shut down alone is disturbing to the core. So happy to hear she is mature enough in Christ to not fearfully keep her mouth shut in the name of “humility”.
@John is awake, she has too much of me in her to ever keep her mouth shut 😆 I think she did it in a constructive and positive way. (Besides, they asked!)
Well…the story I have is too long to tell, but I will say I went to the good ol’ Bob. My freshman year I almost got the boot for watching an evil movie and also possesing other downloaded atrocities. I ended the semester w/ 145 demerits. I determined next time not to be so careless. I made it through the rest of my college life there. Until the week I was supposed to graduate. I got called in to my Dorm Sups room AFTER exams where over, and severely questioned about some severely evil actions I was “caught” doing. (I say caught because, 1) I was doing nothing evil and 2) whatever the evil thing that someone thought I was doing I was doing on campus in clear view of anyone who wanted to see and 3) I know better, if I wanted to do something wrong would I really risk in clear view the week I am graduating??) I smoothed talked my way out of it. I thought all was good. Then 2 days before graduation…yes 2 days…after prayer group I got called in my Dorm Sups office again where I was told to sit tight and hold on after my phone was confiscated. 45 grueling minutes later, I kid you not on the 45 minutes of lonesome anticipation, Mr. Dorm Sup and his leader, Mr. Dean of men, walk in the office. I knew I was done. I knew people who where kicked out of the Bob days before graduation. After almost 2 hours of questioning and smooth talking, I emerged victorious. W/ phone in hand, I eventually walked the platform and grabbed my diploma. I am so glad to be done and away. I only set foot on the campus now because of siblings who currently attend. Oh how wonderful it is to be free of that place though.
Ok. I still remember when at fundy U and they told me as a married off campus student that 1. My wife cold not wear pants, even in our own home. 2. If I wanted to watch a movie that was not rated G, I had to go to the dean of students and get it in writing.
All the Bob Jones, PCC, and California (WCBC & GSBC) stories. Someone has to have stories from
Bible Baptist
Arlington Baptist
Midwestern Baptist
Crown Baptist
Louisiana Baptist
Oklahoma Baptist College
Heartland Baptist College (used to be in California before heading for the Dust Bowl in Oklahoma)
Pillsbury Baptist (closed)
And Hyles-Anderson College. My old Pastor Jack Trieber used to love going there for Pastors School. He even took Bro. Martinez there.
There has to be some HAC stories….
Ambassador Baptist too
Hello, pastor’s wife…for curiosity’s sake…did you attend ABC? I was there from 2009-2012. 🙂
I can offer a Pillsbury story from my mom, who was there in the late ’60s.
In the interest of avoiding wild and wanton public copulation, the administration passed a rule forbidding dating couples from walking together, even on public sidewalks. So the dating couples would cross up who was dating whom. When this subterfuge was discovered, the administration passed another rule declaring that no guy and girl could walk along within ten feet of each other.
So one dating couple cut a ten-foot pole, attached a glove to each end, and went walking around campus, “holding hands.”
As usual, the administration Were Not Amused.
No Texas Baptist College stories? Or did Spurgeon do such a good job that there are none left to tell?
Didn’t Spurgeon go over to “The Other Side” becoming SBC like John MacArthur and John Piper. My old pastor Jack Trieber had some things to say about Piper but that’s another story.
I remember as a child a singing group from PBBC came and sang during childeren’s chapel and one of the singers guitar strings broke 😀 😀 We all got in trouble laughing so hard.
Seeing as how growing up in a fundy church controlled by Jack Trieber we also knew about the great Jack Hyles and how Triever loved their church & school. My senior year at NVBS, Trieber came back to NVBC with a brand new pulpit the size of a Lincoln Town Car. he still has it to this day as it was a gift from the former pastor of FBC Hammond who’s name will not be mentioned since he’s been the butt of every joke non-fundy circles. 😀
What are you talking about? Neither John MacArthur or John Piper are Southern Baptist. Spurgeon wasn’t even American.
I’ve had Triebor for a pastor for 8 years and he likes to claim that MacArthur and Piper are “evil” and are “Liberal Southern Baptists”. I can still hear Trieber declaring “MacArthur is a heretic” during morning services. I guess old grudges never die.
Spurgeon was a British Particular Baptist, and late in life led his congregation out of the Baptist Union, the largest association (IIRCC) of Baptist congregations in Britain at the time.
Darrell.. I am with you my friend, on the “college years werent the best of my life”. I am torn though, because I did make some life long friends there. However, when I look back and analyze, could it be that there is a psychological answer for why I feel like I made such good friends? Could being imprisoned and maltreated help create a bond between victims? And yes, for those reading this and thinking my words are harsh, I was maltreated by the administration. They are not a “Christian” college in what is majorly accepted as “Christian”, they are a fundamentalist institution.
Dear SFL Reader:
‘Thanks for the loan!’
A little note, scotch-taped to the magazine leaning against the Dean of Men’s door at Snob Clones.
Christian Socialist
PS: Oh yeah! I almost forgot! Sports Illustrated!
The Swimsuit issue.
Only because you asked, Heat Is On. HAC student here, long-time reader, first time poster. Too many to tell. Way too many. The sweet young boy that got “campused” because he made me a cassette tape of the sound track of the movie “Hook”….Having to watch him suffer through two weeks of social isolation because he had wanted to give me a gift. Listening with chills down my back to the now infamous Schaap preach a sexualized sermon on the two husbands “Grace” and the “Law” that was simply a plot synopsis of “sleeping with the enemy”, a movie apparently no one else in the chapel had seen. Listening to the “great-late” leader preach an entire sermon on the evils of white bread…Spending the two weeks before Pastors School calling rental furniture stores to hide the broken couches from the guests…(parents and supporting pastors)….seriously, I could go on forever! And I haven’t even touched the parts that still wake me in the middle of the night sometimes.
The Evils Of White Bread?! 😯 Talk about getting desperate for a subject. Worse, that actually does make some sense nutrition-wise. Notice how you can’t buy Wonder Bread anymore? 🙁
To promote the whole “every Christian young person should spend at least one year at a ‘good’ Bible college” idea, Ambassador Baptist College used to offer a One-Year Bible Certificate program. That was actually the name of the “degree.” Only, you couldn’t do it in one year. They did not offer all the classes at different times. The result was a student would come expecting to complete a one-year program in, well, one year, only to find after moving in, registering, and possibly paying a semester’s worth of tuition, room, and board in advance that the schedule did not work out. They would usually have to stay an extra year, since a class or two each semester would not be available, and they would of course be encouraged to take other classes that would apply toward a four-year program, if the lord should lead them to stay and complete one.
During my freshman or sophomore year, the administration quietly made some changes. Instead of changing the program to include classes that were all offered in the same year, or changing the schedule to be sure that all those classes were available, they changed the name of the program to “Certificate in Bible.”
At the time, it seemed a little strange to offer a program that did not work. Now, a strong dose of cynicism makes me wonder whether it was all a ploy to keep those students around for an extra semester or two.
@Evangelist’s Kid
How long did you attend ABC? I thought I was the only one around here to escape from there… 😀
I was at ABC from Fall 2000 – Spring 2004. There are actually a few of us around here, I think I’ve connected with four others I went to school with through this site.
Thanks for responding. You were long gone when I was there (2009-2012).
One of my biggest issues was the amount of time some of the teachers wasted in the classroom how very little we were able to cover some subjects and books. I didn’t know it was possible to cover the epistle of II Corinthians in 1 and 1/2 class periods until I came to Ambassador!
I have to laugh…my first two year there I was a stickler for the rules (no matter how awkward or unreasonable). It wasn’t until a few years later that I realized life wasn’t meant to be lived like a Pharisee. People are more important than the rules. So much I could say, but……
I have a close relative who is set to graduate this spring…my wife wants to attend. This could be extremely fun for me…. 😈
If you go, you could write up your experience for SFL.
Ahhh yes. Bait and switch.
Sadly, it isn’t only “Christian” colleges that have done this. Other colleges, especially the for-profit kind, have done this for a long time.
But my IFB church was a big supporter of Ambassador Christian College years back. Our pastor would have their “missions teams” come by at least once a year. That petered out after he left and the new pastor came in.
I have more than a few Jaw Bones stories.
I was walking back to the dorms one fine day in the middle of the AACS competition, in which we were infested with almost as many high school students as our dining hall was infested with cockroaches. A goodish distance ahead, I saw two high school kids meandering across the grass. Little Lord Fauntleroy (LLF), who often patrolled that stretch in hopes of scoring points with the Deans, saw them and went ballistic.
“Sirs! SIRS!” he shouted.
High schoolers continued to meander. I perked up.
“SIRS! SIIIIIRRRS!” he bellowed, and broke into a run, so as to catch up with the nefarious, villanous grass tramplers.
High schoolers still oblivious. I picked up my pace, so as to be there for the fun.
“Sirs! You are walking on the grass. I will have your ID cards!” quoth LLF.
High schoolers: “Who? What? Us? What ID card?”
LLF: “Don’t try to play games with me. Your ID cards, now! You will be hanged by your thumbs!”
High schoolers: “We don’t have ID cards.”
LLF: (major confused countenance, mixed with anger.)
Me: big grin as I drop a pencil in order to hang around for the denouement.
LLF: “Are you visitors?” (silent acquiescence from the Perpetrators of Pastural Pain). “Oh. OH! Well, then. I’m terribly sorry about this unfortunate misunderstanding” (but you just wait, my pretties, until you are students here, at which time I will have my revenge!).
Like @TheHeatIsOn, I never went to a fundy school, and that was a black mark against me… but I don’t have tales to tell of rules (I do have tales; as long as there are ANY rules, there will be rule-breakers).
At Fairhaven, I ended up campused after going home for a funeral. No students were allowed to go home for Thanksgiving (or maybe just no freshmen — it’s been 21 years, so I can’t remember the stupid rule), but a dear friend of the family died right before Thanksgiving. My parents called and made the plea to allow me to come home. The administration wouldn’t hear of it: It was a sacred rule! I went home anyway. I got campused. Then my second semester ended up going dreadfully wrong because I publicly disagreed with RV, and he wasn’t having some 17 year old chit of a girl disagreeing with him publicly. So that was that. I was sent home in disgrace and off to another “Bible” college the next year.
I’d long since mentally checked out, but after THAT experience, I didn’t even give a crap about the rules anymore. My remaining years of “Bible” college were pretty entertaining for me, not so entertaining for the schools or the admin. 😈
They had the temerity to ban you from travelling home for a funeral? And your parents were reduced to begging for permission for you to travel home? Ridiculous.
I went to Liberty 89-93…truly enjoyed it. They did have a lot of rules I didn’t agree with 100%(no secular music, shirt/tie dress code, and the not tobacco/alcohol/ sex variety). However, they at least recognized that they are not all based on scripture but instead are just the “rules” that have been adopted by our board. We were allowed to hold hands, girls could wear slacks, & CCM was not only allowed but encouraged…DC Talk had just dropped out and I often met the guys hanging out with friends and family on campus.
I know they have changed a lot since then but I had a great experience that prepared me for the real world. I still have a copy of my “Liberty Way”…it is interesting to see the differences between the rules at that time and the rules now.
I remember catching up with old friends on Christmas breaks who attended PCC/HAC/BJU…they hated that my parents allowed me to go to LU and secretly wished they could too. At the end I had an accredited degree that allowed me to go on to a good law school.
To this day, some of my best friends are from my LU days & I would HIGHLY recommend the school to anyone who wants to attend a Christian University. I do enjoy this site though because it reminds me of why I chose LU & what I missed out on at some of the other schools.
I went to Crown for two degrees and had some very good experiences and very bad ones, that could have been avoided:
1. I got married while a student and shortly into my Senior year my wife and I were expecting our first child. My wife was on bed rest due to some complications and was home alone all day, since I was a full-time student and worked a full-time job. The college demanded that all students attend chapel three times per week and attend church, Sunday School, and the like. So, because of my wife’s condition, I had to miss some chapel services and was only able to come to the morning church service on Sunday, instead of Sunday School, because my wife could not handle both. Well, imagine our surprise when the demerits started rolling in, because I was missing services without an excuse. I ended up talking (and having it out with) the Dean of Married Students who was far from newly married and could not understand our situation. Thankfully, one of the VPs did understand and took them off, because they were considerable!
2. I worked on work scholarship in the kitchen at the same college to help alleviate the school bill a bit. One requirement of the position was leaving some services during invitation in order to prep for the onslaught of hungry college students that would come shortly thereafter. The pastor decided that too many students were leaving during invitation and placed a ban on this practice (maybe there were, but we needed the extra time to prep). Our boss was in a bind and the decree was not working at all; so we decided to ignore it and do our jobs. Bad mistake. The head usher found out about it by pulling me out of service, because I had opted to allow some church members to sit in the middle of a pew instead of on the end (I did not want to crawl over people while leaving), grilling me about not moving to the middle, and then bawling me out publicly about “disobeying the pastor.” Needless to say, I was late for work that night. Thankfully, the whole thing was shortly resolved, but was a needless frustration. The same pastor has also come in during bus breakfast (of which the volunteer church members have to arrive around 6am or so) and demanded that his eggs be cooked a certain way, instead of “with brown in them” (from the skillet). Being a pastor myself though, I have learned the importance of not being too picky and ensuring that I do not ask someone to do something I would not do. So, some good came of it!
Haha…I am higky amused reading all of these comments about “Fundy U” experiences. I am sometimes tempted to go back to PCC wearing my “evil clothing” (aka pants and a V neck shirt),walk up to a nice looking young man, and just hug him, and tell hi mto come have a drink with me. Just for kicks 🙂 Maybe even in the middle of the Commons in front of the Gestapo RA’s.
Lol….in reference to my earlier story, I do NOT wear head coverings, nor do I believe any of the fundy garbage either. As I said, I merely did it to make a point, and to protect a friend. I think I lived in Ms. Baer’s office my junior and senior years, since I pretty much got demerits for sneezing in public. Haha…I did purposely break many rules, but never got demerits for anything significant. Just dumb stuff like not emptying the trash, passing room check, or staying up past a lights out call when I wasn’t in Senior Study Hall.
Haha…or drinking IBC root beer. Too bad they never checked the water bottles I brought in (vodka fits into those quite nicely!)or my backpack when I went out”to the mall” with my non-PCC clothes to change into. Heehee…point being that the more rules you slap down on someone, the more they want to rebel just to have a “normal” life. Thanks PCC, you will never make a fundy out of me!
My first year at PCC, one of my roommates shared my birthday, exactly – and we were both 17 for almost the full first semester. Because of this, we got a huge thrill from running around in jeans whenever high school groups were visiting, because we were young enough to pass as visitors, who didn’t have the dress code!
We thought it was great fun to get away with running around campus in jeans and t-shirts, laughing about it when we managed to get back to the dorm un-caught. (such naughtiness!)
It certainly proves the idea that “deviance is relative”! LOL
Isn’t this the twisted irony of the whole thing?
From all the testimonies I read here there appears to be a common thread: Fundy U made you critical thinkers able to sift through what’s worthwhile and what’s crap…albeit by accident.
My Southern Baptist Seminary did the same for me. I feel the experience left me more grounded and down-to-earth, but I think it was never their intention.
They were more concerned about whether a woman could/would/should proclaim the Good News of Jesus Christ more than for the condition of the person hearing, even accepting, said Good News.
I have often thought that the only worthwhile thing I learned in Bible college was the ability to think for myself, and that only happened when I saw a huge difference between the way people were treated and the way I knew Christians were supposed to act.
I am a slow learner. It took BOTH a Fundy U and a Southern Baptist seminary to learn me.
The really bad, soul-killing experience didn’t happen at Fundy U but at the hands of Neo-Reformed Southern Baptists.
This is true. Being there did accelerate my learning to think critically…. although, I think that most of us already had the capacity to question things and think critically and rationally – otherwise we probably wouldn’t have been quite so miserable while at our Fundy U’s.
It’s a bit of chicken/egg. Being miserable there was often the result of already being able to recognize the hypocrisy, and being there – in extremes – then allowed us the strength to reject it in full.
Yep, I will say that Bob Jones University was good for me. Considering I had been raised in a hyper-fundamentalist, right-wingnut political anti-government home.
BJU was actually quite liberal to my experience. I’d never known the ability to question what I knew, find new information and make decisions based on the evidence!
Mark Minnick was my first Doctrines teacher. (Was it Doctrines? I think so. There was this long segment about the history of the Bible in it.) I learned that KJV-onlyism was not correct, thus sealing my reputation as a heretic with my family. But with that single point, the shell of know-it-all-ness cracked, and I discovered that there was a worthwhile education to be had.
So BJU let me down easy. They started me on the path that would eventually diverge from them years down the road. It *took* years. But then, I was stubborn, forgiving to a fault, made excuses, and only really began to make the break internally when I had no other choice that would satisfy my conscience. Even then it took more years before I actually left.
I spent my first year of college at PCC. At the end of November, one of my roommates and I both got a letter stating that we were being called to see the Dean of Women. We spent a day or two trying to figure out WHICH mischievous thing we had been caught doing and were now going to be in trouble for… Turns out that since we both shared a birthday, we were both turning 18 and had to go in to sign our own paperwork! All of that worrying for no reason. I wish I’d have had a better sense of self back then, so I could have even conceived of being an “adult” then, and having the ability to walk away if I wanted to!
The worst/funniest story is from my second year of college. Because I didn’t want to go back to PCC, my family sent me to Hyles-Anderson to “get right with God”…
February, 1994 was the winter olympics. HAC always edited the USA Today newspapers that were sold on campus. (either cutting out or blacking out articles or pictures they didn’t want us to read)
The most 😯 moment was when there was a picture of a figure skater from the olympics on the front page. They had gone through every paper and colored in a knee-length skirt onto the skater… in green marker!
🙄
Btw…I don’t think I know you, Cassie. BUT there seem to be two people with the name Michelle here (myself and another.)
And quick question for Darryl…I am wondering if your CompSci degree actually helped you out in the real world? Do they allow you to get any applicable certifications, or anything worthwhile at PCC? I ask because I got another degree after PCC in CompSci from a well known university, and I’d be screwed without the degree, and applicable CompTIA certs too. Sometimes you can get away without the degree, but NEVER without the certs and experience!
The degree has helped me as much as any degree in Computer Science can, I suppose. In this field it’s almost never about your degrees and (as you said) about what you actually can demonstrate you know how to do.
I also have some CompTIA certs but I got them several years after college. It all just depends on your employers.
I’m going to forbear on the topic of CS Education at US colleges, except to note that it’s too bad that it’s so seldom tried at all. I agree that experience, any experience, goes way further than any degree, although some employers value the degree as well. And the certs are a whole different boondoggle, er, matter.
The more I read about PCC the more I shake my head and wonder why anybody in their right mind would want to go there. It is not even Accredited. If you want to use the GI bill they won’t take it. To the World they are no different than the Taliban, both are the same. Organizations that use religion to push there rules and regulations with the heads of these organization being Narsitisics. Only there version of the bible (or koran) is correct, and seeking to control all those under them. I really am starting to wonder if Christians could do what Jesus said, “Mark 12:29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’[e] This is the first commandment.[f] 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[g] There is no other commandment greater than these.” Read John Eldredge book on “The Utter Relief of Holiness”
I got booted out of Pillsbury in the late 90’s. Met some good people there, but it was a complete joke of a “college”. I could have learned more from the funny pages. Too bad it hadn’t been run better and been in a better financial situation.