200 thoughts on “Super Pastors (Who Are So Much Better Than You Mere Mortals)”
Mid day first
Wow, that is such a worthwhile comment! I’m so glad I scrolled down to read it!
You’re welcome!
😉
See-more Fundiz is a killjoy(a Fundie requirement) and would probably luv to see-no-more First’s on this site!
Most here would probably prefer to See-less Fundiz!!!
And you followed up with a deep, thought-provoking comment of your own, Seymour. Great job! 😛
I still have no butt cushion, Natalie…May I request purple/lavender?
😉
I could get you a real deal on some butt dust, if you like.
What is it with you and butt dust, PR?
It’s a line heard from the pulpit, “All we are but dust…” followed by a child’s question, “Mommy, what is Butt Dust?” Perfect thing to fill a butt cushion, if you ask me. 😀
If you have ever been the janitor in a church… and if you have ever beat on the pew cushions when the light is shining in the opaque colored glass windows at just the right angle… that, is butt dust. 😉
Don, no good church would ever have cushioned pews.
I’ve gotten two firsts, and the only butt cushion I have is the layer of flab on my rear. Natalie’s totally slacking. 😛
Getting wasted on root beer at 2:59.
Ha-ha-ha!
That is what drinking root beer out of a bottle will do to you!!
I think I’d go for something stronger if I wanted to end it all …
You know the fundies HAD to show that in the film….otherwise they’d be “supporting” booze. 🙄
Side-hug 15 seconds in.
33 second mark – preaching on giving.
Missing tie spotted at 1:05 mark.
Future bitter teenagers and ex-wife @ 1:16.
Is that the pastor BEING counseled @ 1:34? Oh. Never mind.
Token tattooed unbeliever at 2:45.
ED STETZER @ 4:14!
Ughhhh. Somehow I doubt Paul or Peter would’ve liked having such a video made about them, much less contributed to producing it. =P
It’s good to know who this chaff is. Self-promoting videos like this are good for such identification.
I have not seen a pastor willing to do some of this stuff. And if they do, it’s usually for the members of their church. And if that, it’s the ones that are the “good members”.
You didn’t know about the tiers of membership based on your tithe rate?
My experience is that if the pastor did that stuff, we all heard about it during the sermon. Yelled to us about all the wonderful things the pastor does and how we (mere mortals) don’t do anything.
Imagine a video made by the pastor… but it was about the little old man who cleans the toilets and sweeps the parking lot when no one is around. That would be nice…
Eh, I’ve seen videos like this about soldiers, fire fighters, etc.
I would hope my Pastor is a better man than me (at least spiritually) otherwise it kind of defeats the purpose. Just like I hope my doctor is a better man than me in regards to medical knowledge, and my accountant is better than I am at numbers, and my mechanic at fixing cars, etc.
“He must increase, but I must decrease.”
John 3:30
“I would hope my Pastor is a better man than me (at least spiritually) otherwise it kind of defeats the purpose.”
Follow that train of thought, because you’re on to something there.
I hope my doctor knows more about medicine than I do, but I don’t expect him to necessarily be healthier than I am. While I imagine that it would be difficult to deal with the demands of being a doctor would be difficult while dealing with a chronic disease, there are many medical conditions (like diabetes, for example) that have absolutely no effect on a doctor’s ability to practice medicine.
If you want a pastor who is more spiritual than you, then I suggest you look to the one who said I AM. The belief that a human pastor is somehow better than others is one of the reasons why there is so much corruption within the IFB church, IMHO.
I can’t help but laugh at the token tattooed booze-drinking heathen.
“Burdens you carry and sacrifices you make”? As a deacon, I made sacrifices and carried burdens without a salary, with another full time job.
And where are all of the “truly transformed lives”? That’s why I ultimately left the church – I didn’t see any evidence of this in anyone’s lives,
Including my own.
I definitely thought it strange that the image they chose to emphasize their pastor’s sacrificial lifestyle was stopping to change a stranded mother’s tire. I know lots of people who would do that. It’s to me just doesn’t really epitomize a pastor’s life very well.
Perhaps that was chosen because showing him in meetings isn’t very visually compelling. And the typical IFB pastor isn’t doing a lot of actual charity work.
Yes, but when a pastor does it, it’s sacrificial. 😉
Why should he get cookies for basic decent behavior expected of any human being–just because he’s a pastor? It’s like the cultural expectation that one parent should get lots of cookies and pats for changing diapers–because he’s the daddy, and that’s just the mommy’s job.
This, man. I was like, everyone here is MISERABLE! Where is the righteousness, peace, and joy? Especially those last two. Church people had the same, if not more, issues as everyone else, and the ones who seemed to actually have some joy in their lives were often just pretending. I got to the point where I just couldn’t stand listening to all of them patting each other on the back anymore. So much blindness and hypocrisy – and then bemoaning how the sinful world won’t let Christians help them and their ‘evangelism’ isn’t working. Damn, I wonder why. 🙄
So the Executive Producer of a 5 minute video cannonizing pastors is…the pastor of Fellowship Baptist Church. I never would have guessed… This just goes to show that the fundy MOG has no shame; and is really good at self-promotion.
That seemed more than a little shameless to me, too.
Wow… wow… wow. I found myself giving them the benefit of the doubt, thinking, “perhaps someone is truly thankful for this pastor…”
But then, BIGGER than any other text in the credits was, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER Pastor Bill Prater.
I need to throw up.
“Let another man praise thee, and not thine own lips.”
Proverbs 27:2
This smells like a Lancaster Baptist video, although I could be wrong…The first pastor shown is Josh Irmler, who I remember from Lancaster.
“God richly blessed and the church experienced wonderful growth during that time.” As opposed to horrendous growth?
So there are more butts in the pews. Are more hungry people being fed? More sick people cared for? More homeless people safe under a roof? More ragged people warmly clad? More people in jail being visited?
Are people, without being exhorted or browbeaten from the pulpit, forming groups to study the Bible, pray together, and discuss how best to serve Jesus in their community and the larger world?
Then what’s the point of all the butts in the pews?
There were 3 Irmlers involved with this project: Josh, Daniel, and Jonathan….but not a LBC video after all.
I can’t do this anymore…
Who’s up for a cold one??
Only if it is sitting on a curb.
Then maybe a pastor will save us.
I’m knocking back an ice cold root beer right now!
(I love how they made a point to focus on the soda to show that they weren’t endorsing drinking.)
I missed that the first time, but that’s okay, I didn’t judge them… I mean, they wouldn’t judge me… right?
Riiiiiiiiiiiggghht…. 🙄
I had to smile at him taking time to talk to a troubled parishioner – in front of a beautiful fireplace! That’s not the typical ambience my husband has encountered in 20 years of ministry.
And the pastor’s family “willing to make the same sacrifces. They support you. They understand”? To some extent this is true. But I’d say that many pastor’s wives and children long for their dad to back off on some responsibilities and just take time for THEM.
I’ve always been baffled at how the IFB culture considers a pastor’s neglect of his family something to be praised. I’m not so sure God agrees on that one.
And this is my valiant attempt to pass over the glaringly false premise that only pastors get up at 5:00 am, counsel the hurting, rescue stranded people on the side of the road, and visit the sick…
“Sometimes it’s hard to remember you’re just a man.” Maybe for the pastor, but the rest of us remember just fine, I think.
It’s not just IFB, I think it’s a problem in fundamentalism as a whole. My dad always believed that and we never got a vote, only castigated for hindering his ministry or not being ‘supportive’ or not being good examples as befit our position in the community. *shrug* If your own family is so screwed up and doesn’t come first, why should the church family think you’d be any better at taking care of them? The glorification of ‘ministry’ above all else in fundamental circles really bothers me, a lot. Maybe just because I know firsthand the kind of neglect and double standards it leads to, and how devastating that can be to wives and children.
Wow. I’m sorry to hear that you had to go through that.
Regarding the pastor’s family:
First, we see him apparently alone in bed when the alarm goes off.
Later, we see his wife sleeping on the couch.
Draw your own conclusions.
I thought the same thing. Neglecting one’s family for the sake of “ministry” is gross negligence of the first priority God gives a father. According to Deuteronomy 6, we are to 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.
I remember Jack Hyles bragging in sermons about how he was so busy, he would go into his son’s room late at night an pray as he slept that even though he was so busy and couldn’t be there for his son, that God would help him to grow up well.
I realize we are to trust God, but I find no where in Scipture where God gives an excuse sheet to shirk such an important responsibility. I have yet to see an example where neglecting the family worked out well. I can point to numerous examples where it didn’t.
“I remember Jack Hyles bragging in sermons about how he was so busy, he would go into his son’s room late at night an pray as he slept that even though he was so busy and couldn’t be there for his son, that God would help him to grow up well.”
Countless police blotters give us an idea of how that worked out for Jack and his son, David.
B.G.- a similar thought was edited out and I forgot to put it back. More than once the question, “So Jack, how’d that work out for ya'” has crossed my mind. I wish he was the only example.
RootBeer……
The kids waving out the window as the car drives away should be wearing seat belt.
Just sayin’.
Absolutely!
Maybe later they could edit the video to show that if you drink too much root beer your wife and kids will leave with smiles on their faces.
@3:49 “It’s easy to forget sometimes that you’re just a man”
That struck me as odd, too.
The implication here is that they believe they aren’t a “man” of God, but rather, a “god”. Just saying.
I couldn’t help but be reminded of this classic. I believe the very last line (@2:43) is especially fitting.
Maybe this should have been the background music? 😯
I was thinking Tammy Wynette as well, but kudos to you on the Blues Brothers cover.
Best. Movie. Ever.
Throughout the entire 5:20 minutes I kept saying, “This has got to be a spoof. This has got to be a spoof.”
Gotta admit, I thought along those lines for the first couple minutes too.
And this is why Poes are so hard to detect. Fundamentalism parodies itself so beautifully and genuinely that it is hard for anybody else to top it.
Like the Cowardly Lion, “I do believe in spoofs I do believe in spoofs!” 😀
@3:48: “It’s easy to forget sometimes that you are just a man.”
Well that much is true. Let’s see…Man of gawd, called of God, chosen by God, Shepard, divine knowledge of God’s word, our dear pastor, provider of godly counsel, blah blah blah.
OK lots of stuff but i will limit my comments; Giving the single woman cash? Didn’t that just make a mess at BJU? If you look in the background while he is preaching, there are microphone holders (as opposed to mic stands)? Sure, your family will suffer but too bad on them. Pastor has one of those fancy one cup coffee makers? Aren’t those kind of spendy? Did the dying lady give him a KJV or NIV? I wasn’t sure, maybe they should have had more of a close up (or maybe I need a bigger screen). There was more but my head hurts.
Yeah, this little older lady with her jewelry on in the hospital just before dying hands a pastor a Bible that obviously has been around longer than the 12 year old pastor has… In the Bible it reads that he (the pastor) gave that Bible to her when she was first saved.
^ This.
What’s the big deal with waking up at 5:00? A lot of people are up earlier than that to start their day. Without the fancy coffee maker.
Did it say P.M.?
I noticed that he took off the suit jacket and tie when sitting next to the tattooed man on the curb. That’s how to show that you’re not “above” people: by removing your tie.
So there’s no handholds when they try to strangle you for being a presumptuous ass, I mean, preaching the gospel unflinchingly.
🙂
Because people who drink in dark alleys always drink six pack bottles.
Thankfully he had his iPhone to get the urgent message.
This is so sickening…it’s scary.
On the other hand…nice crib!! but then again the MOG should be living large!!!…..after all he is a
Man-O’-Gid 😯
This really doesn’t bother me; I didn’t get the sense that it was saying that pastors are better than everyone else.
A pastor’s life is much more than merely preaching on Sunday & Wednesday, and it is good to remember this and to thank the men who answer the call to the pastorate.
In the same vein, I really like it when a pastor thanks the members for coming to church. It’s a little thing, but I appreciate it. My pastor in college did that, and my current pastor does that. So many pastors today treat the other members with contempt and the visitors with kindness. Bob Gray, Sr, (TX) for years made everyone stand up when they were going “soul-winning” and belittled anyone who didn’t stand in his effort to guilt people in going door-to-door. This is the opposite of a kind and gracious pastor.
Appreciation runs both ways; if a pastor is appreciative of the deacons and the janitors and those who mow the church yard and the Sunday School teachers — all of those people who donate time to God through their local church, then maybe they will be appreciative of him with his having to demand it.
It’s a decent thought — even if it was instigated by a pastor, it doesn’t destroy the thought.
I think we’re reading too much into this video.
Yeah, that was my reaction. I guess Darrell gets desperate for content sometimes. 🙂
No, I’m hardly desperate for material. When I stop having things worth posting then I’ll just stop posting.
I come from two generations of pastors so I know that committed pastors really do do a lot of work. I also work a secular job so I also know that so do committed accountants, and construction workers, and bloggers, and nurses.
Good pastors deserve respect — so do good people in any profession I can think of. We all are called to visit the sick. To help the needy. To give comfort to the dying. The elevation of “pastor” to this heroic status is simply not called for or seen in the Bible the way it’s being expressed here.
Kindness and love for your fellow man isn’t limited to a profession. Neither is wisdom or discernment or grace. These are part of the calling given to each and every one of us.
Well said… this was an example of someone sitting in the place of honor when it wasn’t offered to him.
“Have a seat back here sir.”
Darrell well put and very true. GR, you may want to check yourself and see if you are still under fundy mind control. 😉
@Darrell; I completely agree that there is sacrifice in all professions… in my mind, the greatest profession may be the soldiers, in terms of what they sacrifice.
I didn’t see the video as portraying the pastor as heroic – just pointing out that he does more than just preach from the pulpit. I didn’t see the great elevation of his position that others apparently saw.
“It’s a decent thought — even if it was instigated by a pastor, it doesn’t destroy the thought.”
Well– Yes, it does destroy the thought.
If I make a video about how great you are, it could mean you really are great.
If I make a video about how great I am, it’s just pathetic.
^ +1
Air O’ Gince… that is all.
I didn’t get that the video was saying how great Pastor X is, but as a reminder that pastors do more than just preach.
Instead of “How Great I Am”, it seemed to be to be more about the office of a pastor.
To me, it’s the difference between Bill Clinton making a video of the importance of the presidency (OK) verses how great he was as a president (blech!)
I have a Pastor who is a real person. He would be embarrassed by an attempt to idealize him the way this infomercial does. When I express appreciation for him, it is to him alone. There’s no need for hosannas and palm branches. People who make these public displays are missing the profundity of grace and mercy. The most sincere thank-you (and, btw, the most sincere apology) is heart to heart and face to face. Making a major production out of it (and broadcasting it… Complete with credits) smacks of a hidden agenda… Or at least “less than transparent motives”.
A person who serves with a meek spirit disdains public acclaim for their actions. It cheapens the sincerity of true charity. Remember that praying, giving, and serving are best practiced (and rewarded) in Secret… But as for the praise of men, well, verily, verily, this ‘pastor’ seems to have received his reward already. Sadly.
Very good points.
hubris [ˈhjuːbrɪs], hybris n
1. pride or arrogance
2. (Literary & Literary Critical Terms) (in Greek tragedy) an excess of ambition, pride, etc., ultimately causing the transgressor’s ruin
THE MOST SELF-RIGHTEOUS MAN IN THE WORLD
Laypeople often kiss his boot after he has stomped them under his feet for heretical behavior like eating at a restaurant that has a bar in it or your wife wears pajama pants to bed like a heathen. His buzz cut is more spiritual than your whole body. His excrement doesn’t stink or so he’d have you believe. He is the most self-righteous, self-interested man in the world. He is the independent fundamental baptist pastor.
I don’t always endorse pastor worship, but when I do,I prefer Independent Fundamental Baptist pastor worship. Stay backslidden my friends!
LOL!
Well done!! “Dos pulgares para arriba!” (2 thumbs up, mi amigo)…
I don’t want my wife to wear pants to bed either. 😀
Not much of a reply – just a quick comment. Seems The Pastor has spread himself ‘way too thinly. Unintentionally the clip argues for the lifestyle of Catholic priests who are undistracted by the cares and obligations of home and family and, at least theoretically, can concentrate a major portion of their time with-and-for God and God’s people.
It is really awkward how many pastors participated in their own “thank you” video. 😯
I know!! Thank you for saying that. That comment was beautiful pithy genius!
They played this just before the Pastor Oscars…
It was for the Lifetime Achievement Award for this 17 year old “man-cub of god”.
Yes, the executive producer of the video was a pastor.
Might have produced a better affect had it been produced by laypeople.
I complete agree.
It was produced by pastors because they feel this way about themselves. It was not produced by laypeople, because they don’t.
^^This.
“Sometimes it’s easy to forget that you are just a man …”
Oh! My head, my head! Worse, my stomach! Can anything be more nauseating than this video?
I can never forget that my fundy pastors were men and nothing more.
Possibly a good deal less.
For years whenever I looked at the smile of one particular pastor, it had the feel of cheap plastic, glossy, flaking and peeling a bit around the edges, and utterly artificial. His wife’s smile and “God bless you!” were even worse.
Or, as I occasionally heard at BJU in the dorms when something artificially nice occurred, “Gagamaggot.”
I know how it is to stand in front of the church for “discipline” and be “loved on.” How I stood for it I will never know. Why was a different matter, and I did not think it merited the public nature of the discipline, especially when other issues of arguably worse offenses were handled much more discretely for other people.
If that Pastor had not left soon after for another, more lucrative church, I would not have stayed no matter how my children might have wished. There are lots of times I sincerely wish I hadn’t.
I know he thought of himself as a “humble servant of God,” but “humble” is not how I would have described him.
This sounded bitter. I guess it is. But some wounds never completely heal, no matter how much you want them to.
I don’t see what the big deal is here. None of that stuff in the videos should be hard for God. Am I right?
You could substitute “bartender” for pastor and still use the video.
Indeed, the bartender is more often in a position to see the truly down-and-outs.
Never underestimate a good film noir. 😎
If anyone ever needs a definition for Poe’s Law, I will point them to this video.
For realz, that was seriously shameless and bold. How do the pastors who acted in this take themselves so seriously? What a joke.
Ahh yes, let’s just harp on the stereotype that tattoos equals gutter drunk lushes who are reprobates. Well I have tattoos and have never been a raging drunk or ever been in jail. When I was out on the west coast most gutter drunks I saw didn’t have one tattoo. And most so called MOG would never stop to talk to a person in the gutter they would preach about them on Sunday but never ever really talk to a person drinking in the streets. Also the pastor tis not the only one to be with folks when they step out of the universe. I have been in the room when a few of my family have passed. And the video says it takes a calling, dedication and commitment. Well so does a lot of callings and jobs. Hell, a lot of hobbies take dedication and commitment. I am a painter, a musician and a writer. All of those things take dedication, commitment and a calling. That video made me slightly sick. What a piece of garbage and self-mythologizing big headed pious pride on a platter hey look at me I do things so I’m important and am smarter than you so kiss my ass I mean ring. There’s a good change the MOG family will resent him in the future. My father was a preacher but never rose past being the assistant/song leader and he neglected his family putting the MOG and the church and the church folks before his family especially me because I questioned everything, the standards, the preachers power and had a desire for my individuality at a young age. All for what?
High five, man. They really hate the questioners – my dad still tries to tell me I am out of line because I don’t just take his word for everything and agree with him when he lays down the law.
I actually brought up to him once the fact that the verse which says ‘test everything’ is talking to every single person, as Christians, we all have that right and duty individually, and it does not leave an exception for people to accept what their ‘spiritual authority’ says without question. And it was kind of funny to watch him trying to justify the cognitive dissonance involved. He admitted the verse exists and it does say that, but insisted that if I respected him properly I should still take his word for things and just agree with him BECAUSE HE’S RIGHT. I refrained from sending him an email later to the effect of “you know, ‘because I’m right’ is not a good arguement.” Seriously, that was his entire argument when I pinned him down on it. No reasons, just ‘because I’m right.’
It’s so disillusioning to have a conversation with someone you love and respect (or at least once respected) and you try to show them something from Scripture, as you did, and they DISMISS it! I’ve seen people that I thought were godly Christians give excuses and ignore what the Bible actually says. You can’t even reason with people like this. “I’m right; you’re wrong.” There’s no ability to have a discussion when that’s where they go.
It’s been coming for a lot of years, but I kept my mouth shut for a long long time just because I was afraid, or thought it was pointless, or it was just too ingrained of a habit, but there was finally a huge explosion between he and my mom and I a few weeks ago, and centrally about this issue – I was extremely disheartened and disillusioned, yeah, to realise that even when I did actually stand up for myself and speak out about these things, he still wouldn’t hear or listen in the slightest. No grace, just wrath and fury, sheer rage because we weren’t bowing submissively enough to his authority and giving him his respect, as defined by not disagreeing with him on anything, ever. Because he is right. *hugs* I’m sorry you’ve had to go through something like that too, it is hard.
I would be concerned over the fact that your dad doesn’t realize you are not four years old anymore. 😕
Yeahhhh….. I am thirty years old now, the oldest of seven children, and he still wants me and my mother and all of us really (although my brother gets more leeway because he is a man, naturally – ugh) to just agree and submit to his Righteous Rightness and understand that his Spiritual Authority is for our own good and we should just listen to him and accept whatever he says, his interpretations and views and opinions and advice on anything and everything both mundane and spiritual, without questioning him or arguing or discussing, because he is RIGHT because that is his place as the Spiritual Head of His House, aaaayyy-men. 🙄 whaddyagonnado.
It helps that we are moving and me and my youngest sister are currently living at the new house while my parents are still staying in the old place until it sells – having just some space and room to breathe is magical and amazing. 😀
Sorry for a few misspellings there.
Jonathan, meet George. George, Jonathan.
This video should be rated R for ridiculousness. Don: at around the 2:30 mark where they shiw a guy contriving “the words we need” sacrificing his precious time to study so we dont have to!!! All we need is the emotional religious event!! Give us some e.r.e!!! 🙄
Pulpit
Pew
Pastor
sheep
Spiritual Elitist
underlings
Sanctified SupersSaint
everyone else
Prime example of the Doctrine of Ephesians 4:11 onlyism.
Did anyone else notice in the credits that there was a Pastor Janet Lowery in the special thanks? Just curious.
Thought women as “pastors” were a no-no in most IFB circles.
I saw that too, but thought it must be a European with a different pronunciation. Maybe a typo.
Apparently she’s presbyterian. Why are IFB’s not separating themselves better?
No, I didn’t see that… wonder why this person was credited??
Working on a high quality spoof. Should be ready tomorrow. Re-wrote the way it should have been read… In the first person.
Finished the piano, alarm clock, flat line, and re-write. Working on the new voice over tomorrow, then render and upload.
I know I’ve told this story before but, I remember a conversation where I was rudely told I could not participate since I was not a Pastor and I could not possibly understand the burden of being a Pastor. (in retrospect it sounds like they wanted to catch up on each others gossip)
If I could go back and re-live that moment, knowing what I know now, I believe I would have to say, “You pompous, self-absorbed, self-anointed Pharisee. If you were a real pastor you would finish reading Ephesians chapter 4 and do what it tells you to and then maybe learn some humility instead of hiding behind your phoney sanctimony.”
*sigh* I know I’ve said this as well:
It is my considered opinion that of those who claim the title “Pastor” only 1 in 10,000 is actually qualified to be there. Again, in my opinion, the posers in the pulpit are the real problem with Christianity.
My personal approach to those who call themselves “Pastor” or “preacher” is to assume that their first name is Elmer and the last is Gantry.
I hear ya Don… Elmer Fudd would be a better pick.
Well, you know, Jesus turned the world upside down. You can’t be a good pastor if you’re still clinging to the world’s values of power, hierarchy, and authority. This is exactly what’s wrong with fundy hierarchicalism, and the other expressions of this poison which have creeped into mainstream evangelicalism.
YES. This. You are absolutely, one hundred percent right. So much of the American church has gotten caught up in pursuing and valuing the things the world considers worthy – power, wealth, recognition, and material evidences of ‘success’. That’s not God, and it’s not Christian. It’s so sad. 🙁
Spot on, doc
Ok, so for starters, can anyone explain to me what “called by God” means?
The lack of replies must mean “no.”
A statement you use to justify something so that nobody will ever question you or hold you accountable for it.
From my personal experience, so grain of salt, but my dad has actually said much of this to me and sometimes in these exact words, and it bears out what I’ve seen in others, too. It seems to mean mostly that these guys at some point in their lives had a vision of what it would be like to be ‘in ministry’, to have a position of respect and authority and be seen as a person of great holiness and wisdom.
They may or may not have actually had some legitimate basis for this, but regardless of whether the notion came from God or not, their image of it and their decision to pursue it quickly turned into ‘all about me’, how they looked and how much other people looked up to them, how much influence and respect they could have over others. This dream became so cherished that they convinced themselves that it was some kind of destiny, a right and entitlement, that God himself had ordained them to hold that position and gain that kind of power over the more lowly sheep who needed their benevolent guidance.
However well they meant to begin with, and at least some of them did, and however much God may have been in it to start with, as soon as they actually began to attain any of this, it went to their head and became more important than showing love to their families and the world. The ministry always comes first, over anything and everything, even common sense or basic decency. It became about image and authority and ‘respect’, as they define it, which usually just means you are not allowed to question, or argue, because they are RIGHT, a-men?
They Hear from God, and they will interpret it for the masses. Theirs is the anointing and thus the power and the glory and it all gets mixed in their heads until many of them really truly believe that what is given to them is given to God, they are rightfully entitled to this kind of position, effectively conflating themselves with God in the eyes of themselves and their flock, and it is an evil, insidious thing. So toxic, and so dangerous.
^yep
Thanks for the responses. I think you all have pretty much nailed it. It can be odd sometimes how most fundies are (usually militant) cessationists, but then they throw around this mystical language. I knew dozens of preacher boys at fundy U. To be honest, many of them were the most disgusting people I knew on campus. I tended to hang out with the CJs; probably because I was in the gym a lot. They all claimed this mystical calling. At the end of the day, it was just a hyper-productive pancreas.
If I were a pastor I do not think I would want a video made of me. It does smack me as self-promoting.
However, three of the pastors in the video, the first one shown behind the pulpit, the one in front of the fireplace and the one who sat next to the man in the alley, I know personally. They are all solid men who truly love their congregations and the people of their community.
Since graduating Bible college I have had a hard time getting into the ministry. I had no idea there was an “old boys network”. Plus churches don’t seem to want to hire a single man. A lot of my old friends from Bible college have written me off. But one of the men in the video has supported me and refuses to believe I am out of the will of God. And that means a lot to me.
I understand what all of you are saying about videos like this, about how they come across as self-promoting. And I do not disagree. If any of the pastors asked my opinion I would have advised them not to make this video. But just know that if fundy pastors are selfish, arrogant men the three men I know in the video are the exception.
*sigh* The problem I have with this is that three years ago I would have said the same thing about my pastor. I thought he was a wonderful man. I could give a lot of details as ‘evidence’ that he was not like those other IFB pastors.
Then I heard him, with my own ears, suggesting we just cover up child abuse and not involve the police, or even protect the child from the perp.
These guys might be great in some contexts, but they’re clearly capable of getting it very badly wrong.
“…getting it completely wrong.”
As are all of us.
Sorry, “very badly wrong”
Jason, these men may truly love their congregations and be good men, but to be part of such self-aggrandizement shows absolutely no sense of proper place or humility. For all the talk of “serving”, the whole video was self focused. This video flaunted the extravagance of these men, from the ridiculously expensive coffee maker to the fancy “fireplace”. It bragged about how much better they are because of what they do.
Big Whoop! I have been to the hospital at three in the morning for non family members. I have helped stranded motorists. Some I knew, some I didn’t. I have bought food for beggars. I won’t give a bum money, but I’ll give him a sandwich. I have given rides to people, even, GASP! a woman unchaperoned! Done yard work for old people. Helped not so old people with problems. Fixed cars for folks at church so their family could travel over holidays.
None of this to brag. The point is, we all are supposed to do these things. It is called being a friend and neighbor. I did these things and still spent time with my wife and kids. Often, my kids went with me. Not as slave labor, but because we wanted to be together, and it teaches them to care when they see, not just hear about, serving others.
I didn’t mean to blast you personally. Please don’t be offended. I’m just tired of hearing lame excuses for not being a husband and father first. That, and how hard they have it at their particular job. As if no one else in the church does anything. It’s too bad most IFB pastors fail to realize they aren’t the only ones serving God.
I am questioning the validity of a Fundy pastor helping a woman on the side of the road…I was always told a good pastor should not even ride in an elevator with a woman who is not his wife. How many would want to be seen with a woman on the side of the road?
Many Bible colleges would consider this a date!
I also wondered if SuperPastor would have stopped for a stranded mom who was wearing jeans.
Or Fat or Ugly
Are you sure about that? Jack Hyles claimed to have done some of his best “soul-winning” in elevators.
Dropped a line from that last comment. Should be:
“I was always told a good pastor should not even ride in an elevator with a woman who is not his wife.”
Are you sure about that? Jack Hyles claimed to have done some of his best “soul winning” in elevators.
Just watched again. Even more grotesque the second time. This time noticed how all the Pastors were white, male, and mostly young…except when talking about those pastors who are OLD, and presumably winding down. Mostly women were shown in the congregations and in positions of “neediness”. Also noticed the PowerPoint slide behind the pastor speaking was “Stewardship”. Which we all know in fundy circles = extortion of private funds by “local” churches. Typical.
Masters of propaganda? Only to the blind.
Pause at 2:36 to see a great study of fundy “end-time”-ology! I had a feeling it would be that before I paused it. Well, either that or a bunch of words looked up from Strong’s.
I kept waiting for Sarah McLachlan to show up.
LOL!
What I think is pathetic about this video is that these poor, overworked, underthanked pastors somehow had PLENTY of time to participate in a slick marketing promotion of their profession.
I think someone said that this was not a Lancaster Baptist Church production, but it certainly is of that ilk. WCBC students and staff are forever adulating themselves about how overworked they are for the Kingdom of God and how they just don’t have a spare moment for themselves (so please heap praise upon them and send them $$$). Until you start clicking through their Facebooks and realize that a very significant portion of their “expending themselves for God” consists of going out to eat, going shopping, goofing off, engaging in various entertainment pursuits, etc. But, the theory goes, if you do all these things with church members who are beneath you in the “spiritual maturity hierarchy” then whatever you are doing counts as “ministry” because you are “setting an example” and “engaging in discipleship.” 🙄
Yes, that’s curious, isn’t it?
From 5 a.m. until late at night, they never cease to help the hapless– except to make slick multimedia declarations of how awesome they are.
Oh wow. That is root beer. I totally missed that.
It’s the notorious gateway drug.
You start out with one root beer, pretty soon it’s whole sixpacks, and you end up guzzling two-liter magnums of ginger ale.
I saw the following comment somewhere in the last 6 months, probably here at SFL, but I thought enough of it to write it down. It bears repeating:
“I have seen more men in the pulpit who revel in the position and jealously guard their power than i have ever seen those who humbly serve and tremble at the power such a position holds and fear the corruption that is available”
Oh wow…I know the director Brandon Clementson! I knew him before he went to Crown College. The fundy world is small indeed.
Lol, I went to play the video and due to my incredibly slow internet, it played, “You are my past…” and then stopped to buffer. I figured that was probably the ideal place to stop watching. =P
That pastor counseling the fighting couple had the same expression I had while watching this ridiculous thing.
Comments are closed.
A silly blog dedicated to Independent Fundamental Baptists, their standards, their beliefs, and their craziness.
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Wow, that is such a worthwhile comment! I’m so glad I scrolled down to read it!
You’re welcome!
😉
See-more Fundiz is a killjoy(a Fundie requirement) and would probably luv to see-no-more First’s on this site!
Most here would probably prefer to See-less Fundiz!!!
And you followed up with a deep, thought-provoking comment of your own, Seymour. Great job! 😛
I still have no butt cushion, Natalie…May I request purple/lavender?
😉
I could get you a real deal on some butt dust, if you like.
What is it with you and butt dust, PR?
It’s a line heard from the pulpit, “All we are but dust…” followed by a child’s question, “Mommy, what is Butt Dust?” Perfect thing to fill a butt cushion, if you ask me. 😀
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qxSwJC3Ly0
Hay-men, BG! 😀
If you have ever been the janitor in a church… and if you have ever beat on the pew cushions when the light is shining in the opaque colored glass windows at just the right angle… that, is butt dust. 😉
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No8wNBqn4RI&w=560&h=315%5D
Don, no good church would ever have cushioned pews.
I’ve gotten two firsts, and the only butt cushion I have is the layer of flab on my rear. Natalie’s totally slacking. 😛
Getting wasted on root beer at 2:59.
Ha-ha-ha!
That is what drinking root beer out of a bottle will do to you!!
I think I’d go for something stronger if I wanted to end it all …
You know the fundies HAD to show that in the film….otherwise they’d be “supporting” booze. 🙄
Side-hug 15 seconds in.
33 second mark – preaching on giving.
Missing tie spotted at 1:05 mark.
Future bitter teenagers and ex-wife @ 1:16.
Is that the pastor BEING counseled @ 1:34? Oh. Never mind.
Token tattooed unbeliever at 2:45.
ED STETZER @ 4:14!
Ughhhh. Somehow I doubt Paul or Peter would’ve liked having such a video made about them, much less contributed to producing it. =P
It’s good to know who this chaff is. Self-promoting videos like this are good for such identification.
I have not seen a pastor willing to do some of this stuff. And if they do, it’s usually for the members of their church. And if that, it’s the ones that are the “good members”.
You didn’t know about the tiers of membership based on your tithe rate?
My experience is that if the pastor did that stuff, we all heard about it during the sermon. Yelled to us about all the wonderful things the pastor does and how we (mere mortals) don’t do anything.
Imagine a video made by the pastor… but it was about the little old man who cleans the toilets and sweeps the parking lot when no one is around. That would be nice…
Eh, I’ve seen videos like this about soldiers, fire fighters, etc.
I would hope my Pastor is a better man than me (at least spiritually) otherwise it kind of defeats the purpose. Just like I hope my doctor is a better man than me in regards to medical knowledge, and my accountant is better than I am at numbers, and my mechanic at fixing cars, etc.
“He must increase, but I must decrease.”
John 3:30
“I would hope my Pastor is a better man than me (at least spiritually) otherwise it kind of defeats the purpose.”
Follow that train of thought, because you’re on to something there.
I hope my doctor knows more about medicine than I do, but I don’t expect him to necessarily be healthier than I am. While I imagine that it would be difficult to deal with the demands of being a doctor would be difficult while dealing with a chronic disease, there are many medical conditions (like diabetes, for example) that have absolutely no effect on a doctor’s ability to practice medicine.
If you want a pastor who is more spiritual than you, then I suggest you look to the one who said I AM. The belief that a human pastor is somehow better than others is one of the reasons why there is so much corruption within the IFB church, IMHO.
I can’t help but laugh at the token tattooed booze-drinking heathen.
“Burdens you carry and sacrifices you make”? As a deacon, I made sacrifices and carried burdens without a salary, with another full time job.
And where are all of the “truly transformed lives”? That’s why I ultimately left the church – I didn’t see any evidence of this in anyone’s lives,
Including my own.
I definitely thought it strange that the image they chose to emphasize their pastor’s sacrificial lifestyle was stopping to change a stranded mother’s tire. I know lots of people who would do that. It’s to me just doesn’t really epitomize a pastor’s life very well.
Perhaps that was chosen because showing him in meetings isn’t very visually compelling. And the typical IFB pastor isn’t doing a lot of actual charity work.
Yes, but when a pastor does it, it’s sacrificial. 😉
Why should he get cookies for basic decent behavior expected of any human being–just because he’s a pastor? It’s like the cultural expectation that one parent should get lots of cookies and pats for changing diapers–because he’s the daddy, and that’s just the mommy’s job.
This, man. I was like, everyone here is MISERABLE! Where is the righteousness, peace, and joy? Especially those last two. Church people had the same, if not more, issues as everyone else, and the ones who seemed to actually have some joy in their lives were often just pretending. I got to the point where I just couldn’t stand listening to all of them patting each other on the back anymore. So much blindness and hypocrisy – and then bemoaning how the sinful world won’t let Christians help them and their ‘evangelism’ isn’t working. Damn, I wonder why. 🙄
So the Executive Producer of a 5 minute video cannonizing pastors is…the pastor of Fellowship Baptist Church. I never would have guessed… This just goes to show that the fundy MOG has no shame; and is really good at self-promotion.
That seemed more than a little shameless to me, too.
Wow… wow… wow. I found myself giving them the benefit of the doubt, thinking, “perhaps someone is truly thankful for this pastor…”
But then, BIGGER than any other text in the credits was, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER Pastor Bill Prater.
I need to throw up.
“Let another man praise thee, and not thine own lips.”
Proverbs 27:2
This smells like a Lancaster Baptist video, although I could be wrong…The first pastor shown is Josh Irmler, who I remember from Lancaster.
He now pastors this church:
http://www.ambassador4me.com/pastor-joshua-irmler.html
“God richly blessed and the church experienced wonderful growth during that time.” As opposed to horrendous growth?
So there are more butts in the pews. Are more hungry people being fed? More sick people cared for? More homeless people safe under a roof? More ragged people warmly clad? More people in jail being visited?
Are people, without being exhorted or browbeaten from the pulpit, forming groups to study the Bible, pray together, and discuss how best to serve Jesus in their community and the larger world?
Then what’s the point of all the butts in the pews?
There were 3 Irmlers involved with this project: Josh, Daniel, and Jonathan….but not a LBC video after all.
I can’t do this anymore…
Who’s up for a cold one??
Only if it is sitting on a curb.
Then maybe a pastor will save us.
I’m knocking back an ice cold root beer right now!
(I love how they made a point to focus on the soda to show that they weren’t endorsing drinking.)
I missed that the first time, but that’s okay, I didn’t judge them… I mean, they wouldn’t judge me… right?
Riiiiiiiiiiiggghht…. 🙄
I had to smile at him taking time to talk to a troubled parishioner – in front of a beautiful fireplace! That’s not the typical ambience my husband has encountered in 20 years of ministry.
And the pastor’s family “willing to make the same sacrifces. They support you. They understand”? To some extent this is true. But I’d say that many pastor’s wives and children long for their dad to back off on some responsibilities and just take time for THEM.
I’ve always been baffled at how the IFB culture considers a pastor’s neglect of his family something to be praised. I’m not so sure God agrees on that one.
And this is my valiant attempt to pass over the glaringly false premise that only pastors get up at 5:00 am, counsel the hurting, rescue stranded people on the side of the road, and visit the sick…
“Sometimes it’s hard to remember you’re just a man.” Maybe for the pastor, but the rest of us remember just fine, I think.
It’s not just IFB, I think it’s a problem in fundamentalism as a whole. My dad always believed that and we never got a vote, only castigated for hindering his ministry or not being ‘supportive’ or not being good examples as befit our position in the community. *shrug* If your own family is so screwed up and doesn’t come first, why should the church family think you’d be any better at taking care of them? The glorification of ‘ministry’ above all else in fundamental circles really bothers me, a lot. Maybe just because I know firsthand the kind of neglect and double standards it leads to, and how devastating that can be to wives and children.
Wow. I’m sorry to hear that you had to go through that.
Regarding the pastor’s family:
First, we see him apparently alone in bed when the alarm goes off.
Later, we see his wife sleeping on the couch.
Draw your own conclusions.
I thought the same thing. Neglecting one’s family for the sake of “ministry” is gross negligence of the first priority God gives a father. According to Deuteronomy 6, we are to 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.
I remember Jack Hyles bragging in sermons about how he was so busy, he would go into his son’s room late at night an pray as he slept that even though he was so busy and couldn’t be there for his son, that God would help him to grow up well.
I realize we are to trust God, but I find no where in Scipture where God gives an excuse sheet to shirk such an important responsibility. I have yet to see an example where neglecting the family worked out well. I can point to numerous examples where it didn’t.
“I remember Jack Hyles bragging in sermons about how he was so busy, he would go into his son’s room late at night an pray as he slept that even though he was so busy and couldn’t be there for his son, that God would help him to grow up well.”
Countless police blotters give us an idea of how that worked out for Jack and his son, David.
B.G.- a similar thought was edited out and I forgot to put it back. More than once the question, “So Jack, how’d that work out for ya'” has crossed my mind. I wish he was the only example.
RootBeer……
The kids waving out the window as the car drives away should be wearing seat belt.
Just sayin’.
Absolutely!
Maybe later they could edit the video to show that if you drink too much root beer your wife and kids will leave with smiles on their faces.
@3:49 “It’s easy to forget sometimes that you’re just a man”
That struck me as odd, too.
The implication here is that they believe they aren’t a “man” of God, but rather, a “god”. Just saying.
I couldn’t help but be reminded of this classic. I believe the very last line (@2:43) is especially fitting.
http://youtu.be/Psm96Dn9KII
Maybe this should have been the background music? 😯
I was thinking Tammy Wynette as well, but kudos to you on the Blues Brothers cover.
Best. Movie. Ever.
Throughout the entire 5:20 minutes I kept saying, “This has got to be a spoof. This has got to be a spoof.”
Gotta admit, I thought along those lines for the first couple minutes too.
And this is why Poes are so hard to detect. Fundamentalism parodies itself so beautifully and genuinely that it is hard for anybody else to top it.
Like the Cowardly Lion, “I do believe in spoofs I do believe in spoofs!” 😀
@3:48: “It’s easy to forget sometimes that you are just a man.”
Well that much is true. Let’s see…Man of gawd, called of God, chosen by God, Shepard, divine knowledge of God’s word, our dear pastor, provider of godly counsel, blah blah blah.
OK lots of stuff but i will limit my comments; Giving the single woman cash? Didn’t that just make a mess at BJU? If you look in the background while he is preaching, there are microphone holders (as opposed to mic stands)? Sure, your family will suffer but too bad on them. Pastor has one of those fancy one cup coffee makers? Aren’t those kind of spendy? Did the dying lady give him a KJV or NIV? I wasn’t sure, maybe they should have had more of a close up (or maybe I need a bigger screen). There was more but my head hurts.
Yeah, this little older lady with her jewelry on in the hospital just before dying hands a pastor a Bible that obviously has been around longer than the 12 year old pastor has… In the Bible it reads that he (the pastor) gave that Bible to her when she was first saved.
^ This.
What’s the big deal with waking up at 5:00? A lot of people are up earlier than that to start their day. Without the fancy coffee maker.
Did it say P.M.?
I noticed that he took off the suit jacket and tie when sitting next to the tattooed man on the curb. That’s how to show that you’re not “above” people: by removing your tie.
So there’s no handholds when they try to strangle you for being a presumptuous ass, I mean, preaching the gospel unflinchingly.
🙂
Because people who drink in dark alleys always drink six pack bottles.
Thankfully he had his iPhone to get the urgent message.
This is so sickening…it’s scary.
On the other hand…nice crib!! but then again the MOG should be living large!!!…..after all he is a
Man-O’-Gid 😯
This really doesn’t bother me; I didn’t get the sense that it was saying that pastors are better than everyone else.
A pastor’s life is much more than merely preaching on Sunday & Wednesday, and it is good to remember this and to thank the men who answer the call to the pastorate.
In the same vein, I really like it when a pastor thanks the members for coming to church. It’s a little thing, but I appreciate it. My pastor in college did that, and my current pastor does that. So many pastors today treat the other members with contempt and the visitors with kindness. Bob Gray, Sr, (TX) for years made everyone stand up when they were going “soul-winning” and belittled anyone who didn’t stand in his effort to guilt people in going door-to-door. This is the opposite of a kind and gracious pastor.
Appreciation runs both ways; if a pastor is appreciative of the deacons and the janitors and those who mow the church yard and the Sunday School teachers — all of those people who donate time to God through their local church, then maybe they will be appreciative of him with his having to demand it.
It’s a decent thought — even if it was instigated by a pastor, it doesn’t destroy the thought.
I think we’re reading too much into this video.
Yeah, that was my reaction. I guess Darrell gets desperate for content sometimes. 🙂
No, I’m hardly desperate for material. When I stop having things worth posting then I’ll just stop posting.
I come from two generations of pastors so I know that committed pastors really do do a lot of work. I also work a secular job so I also know that so do committed accountants, and construction workers, and bloggers, and nurses.
Good pastors deserve respect — so do good people in any profession I can think of. We all are called to visit the sick. To help the needy. To give comfort to the dying. The elevation of “pastor” to this heroic status is simply not called for or seen in the Bible the way it’s being expressed here.
Kindness and love for your fellow man isn’t limited to a profession. Neither is wisdom or discernment or grace. These are part of the calling given to each and every one of us.
Well said… this was an example of someone sitting in the place of honor when it wasn’t offered to him.
“Have a seat back here sir.”
Darrell well put and very true. GR, you may want to check yourself and see if you are still under fundy mind control. 😉
@Darrell; I completely agree that there is sacrifice in all professions… in my mind, the greatest profession may be the soldiers, in terms of what they sacrifice.
I didn’t see the video as portraying the pastor as heroic – just pointing out that he does more than just preach from the pulpit. I didn’t see the great elevation of his position that others apparently saw.
“It’s a decent thought — even if it was instigated by a pastor, it doesn’t destroy the thought.”
Well– Yes, it does destroy the thought.
If I make a video about how great you are, it could mean you really are great.
If I make a video about how great I am, it’s just pathetic.
^ +1
Air O’ Gince… that is all.
I didn’t get that the video was saying how great Pastor X is, but as a reminder that pastors do more than just preach.
Instead of “How Great I Am”, it seemed to be to be more about the office of a pastor.
To me, it’s the difference between Bill Clinton making a video of the importance of the presidency (OK) verses how great he was as a president (blech!)
I have a Pastor who is a real person. He would be embarrassed by an attempt to idealize him the way this infomercial does. When I express appreciation for him, it is to him alone. There’s no need for hosannas and palm branches. People who make these public displays are missing the profundity of grace and mercy. The most sincere thank-you (and, btw, the most sincere apology) is heart to heart and face to face. Making a major production out of it (and broadcasting it… Complete with credits) smacks of a hidden agenda… Or at least “less than transparent motives”.
A person who serves with a meek spirit disdains public acclaim for their actions. It cheapens the sincerity of true charity. Remember that praying, giving, and serving are best practiced (and rewarded) in Secret… But as for the praise of men, well, verily, verily, this ‘pastor’ seems to have received his reward already. Sadly.
Very good points.
hubris [ˈhjuːbrɪs], hybris
n
1. pride or arrogance
2. (Literary & Literary Critical Terms) (in Greek tragedy) an excess of ambition, pride, etc., ultimately causing the transgressor’s ruin
THE MOST SELF-RIGHTEOUS MAN IN THE WORLD
Laypeople often kiss his boot after he has stomped them under his feet for heretical behavior like eating at a restaurant that has a bar in it or your wife wears pajama pants to bed like a heathen. His buzz cut is more spiritual than your whole body. His excrement doesn’t stink or so he’d have you believe. He is the most self-righteous, self-interested man in the world. He is the independent fundamental baptist pastor.
I don’t always endorse pastor worship, but when I do,I prefer Independent Fundamental Baptist pastor worship. Stay backslidden my friends!
LOL!
Well done!! “Dos pulgares para arriba!” (2 thumbs up, mi amigo)…
I don’t want my wife to wear pants to bed either. 😀
Not much of a reply – just a quick comment. Seems The Pastor has spread himself ‘way too thinly. Unintentionally the clip argues for the lifestyle of Catholic priests who are undistracted by the cares and obligations of home and family and, at least theoretically, can concentrate a major portion of their time with-and-for God and God’s people.
It is really awkward how many pastors participated in their own “thank you” video. 😯
I know!! Thank you for saying that. That comment was beautiful pithy genius!
They played this just before the Pastor Oscars…
It was for the Lifetime Achievement Award for this 17 year old “man-cub of god”.
Yes, the executive producer of the video was a pastor.
Might have produced a better affect had it been produced by laypeople.
I complete agree.
It was produced by pastors because they feel this way about themselves. It was not produced by laypeople, because they don’t.
^^This.
“Sometimes it’s easy to forget that you are just a man …”
Oh! My head, my head! Worse, my stomach! Can anything be more nauseating than this video?
I can never forget that my fundy pastors were men and nothing more.
Possibly a good deal less.
For years whenever I looked at the smile of one particular pastor, it had the feel of cheap plastic, glossy, flaking and peeling a bit around the edges, and utterly artificial. His wife’s smile and “God bless you!” were even worse.
Or, as I occasionally heard at BJU in the dorms when something artificially nice occurred, “Gagamaggot.”
I know how it is to stand in front of the church for “discipline” and be “loved on.” How I stood for it I will never know. Why was a different matter, and I did not think it merited the public nature of the discipline, especially when other issues of arguably worse offenses were handled much more discretely for other people.
If that Pastor had not left soon after for another, more lucrative church, I would not have stayed no matter how my children might have wished. There are lots of times I sincerely wish I hadn’t.
I know he thought of himself as a “humble servant of God,” but “humble” is not how I would have described him.
This sounded bitter. I guess it is. But some wounds never completely heal, no matter how much you want them to.
I don’t see what the big deal is here. None of that stuff in the videos should be hard for God. Am I right?
You could substitute “bartender” for pastor and still use the video.
Indeed, the bartender is more often in a position to see the truly down-and-outs.
Never underestimate a good film noir. 😎
If anyone ever needs a definition for Poe’s Law, I will point them to this video.
For realz, that was seriously shameless and bold. How do the pastors who acted in this take themselves so seriously? What a joke.
Ahh yes, let’s just harp on the stereotype that tattoos equals gutter drunk lushes who are reprobates. Well I have tattoos and have never been a raging drunk or ever been in jail. When I was out on the west coast most gutter drunks I saw didn’t have one tattoo. And most so called MOG would never stop to talk to a person in the gutter they would preach about them on Sunday but never ever really talk to a person drinking in the streets. Also the pastor tis not the only one to be with folks when they step out of the universe. I have been in the room when a few of my family have passed. And the video says it takes a calling, dedication and commitment. Well so does a lot of callings and jobs. Hell, a lot of hobbies take dedication and commitment. I am a painter, a musician and a writer. All of those things take dedication, commitment and a calling. That video made me slightly sick. What a piece of garbage and self-mythologizing big headed pious pride on a platter hey look at me I do things so I’m important and am smarter than you so kiss my ass I mean ring. There’s a good change the MOG family will resent him in the future. My father was a preacher but never rose past being the assistant/song leader and he neglected his family putting the MOG and the church and the church folks before his family especially me because I questioned everything, the standards, the preachers power and had a desire for my individuality at a young age. All for what?
High five, man. They really hate the questioners – my dad still tries to tell me I am out of line because I don’t just take his word for everything and agree with him when he lays down the law.
I actually brought up to him once the fact that the verse which says ‘test everything’ is talking to every single person, as Christians, we all have that right and duty individually, and it does not leave an exception for people to accept what their ‘spiritual authority’ says without question. And it was kind of funny to watch him trying to justify the cognitive dissonance involved. He admitted the verse exists and it does say that, but insisted that if I respected him properly I should still take his word for things and just agree with him BECAUSE HE’S RIGHT. I refrained from sending him an email later to the effect of “you know, ‘because I’m right’ is not a good arguement.” Seriously, that was his entire argument when I pinned him down on it. No reasons, just ‘because I’m right.’
It’s so disillusioning to have a conversation with someone you love and respect (or at least once respected) and you try to show them something from Scripture, as you did, and they DISMISS it! I’ve seen people that I thought were godly Christians give excuses and ignore what the Bible actually says. You can’t even reason with people like this. “I’m right; you’re wrong.” There’s no ability to have a discussion when that’s where they go.
It’s been coming for a lot of years, but I kept my mouth shut for a long long time just because I was afraid, or thought it was pointless, or it was just too ingrained of a habit, but there was finally a huge explosion between he and my mom and I a few weeks ago, and centrally about this issue – I was extremely disheartened and disillusioned, yeah, to realise that even when I did actually stand up for myself and speak out about these things, he still wouldn’t hear or listen in the slightest. No grace, just wrath and fury, sheer rage because we weren’t bowing submissively enough to his authority and giving him his respect, as defined by not disagreeing with him on anything, ever. Because he is right. *hugs* I’m sorry you’ve had to go through something like that too, it is hard.
I would be concerned over the fact that your dad doesn’t realize you are not four years old anymore. 😕
Yeahhhh….. I am thirty years old now, the oldest of seven children, and he still wants me and my mother and all of us really (although my brother gets more leeway because he is a man, naturally – ugh) to just agree and submit to his Righteous Rightness and understand that his Spiritual Authority is for our own good and we should just listen to him and accept whatever he says, his interpretations and views and opinions and advice on anything and everything both mundane and spiritual, without questioning him or arguing or discussing, because he is RIGHT because that is his place as the Spiritual Head of His House, aaaayyy-men. 🙄 whaddyagonnado.
It helps that we are moving and me and my youngest sister are currently living at the new house while my parents are still staying in the old place until it sells – having just some space and room to breathe is magical and amazing. 😀
Sorry for a few misspellings there.
Jonathan, meet George. George, Jonathan.
This video should be rated R for ridiculousness. Don: at around the 2:30 mark where they shiw a guy contriving “the words we need” sacrificing his precious time to study so we dont have to!!! All we need is the emotional religious event!! Give us some e.r.e!!! 🙄
Pulpit
Pew
Pastor
sheep
Spiritual Elitist
underlings
Sanctified SupersSaint
everyone else
Prime example of the Doctrine of Ephesians 4:11 onlyism.
Did anyone else notice in the credits that there was a Pastor Janet Lowery in the special thanks? Just curious.
Thought women as “pastors” were a no-no in most IFB circles.
I saw that too, but thought it must be a European with a different pronunciation. Maybe a typo.
http://northspringfieldpc.org/index.html
Apparently she’s presbyterian. Why are IFB’s not separating themselves better?
No, I didn’t see that… wonder why this person was credited??
Working on a high quality spoof. Should be ready tomorrow. Re-wrote the way it should have been read… In the first person.
Finished the piano, alarm clock, flat line, and re-write. Working on the new voice over tomorrow, then render and upload.
I know I’ve told this story before but, I remember a conversation where I was rudely told I could not participate since I was not a Pastor and I could not possibly understand the burden of being a Pastor. (in retrospect it sounds like they wanted to catch up on each others gossip)
If I could go back and re-live that moment, knowing what I know now, I believe I would have to say, “You pompous, self-absorbed, self-anointed Pharisee. If you were a real pastor you would finish reading Ephesians chapter 4 and do what it tells you to and then maybe learn some humility instead of hiding behind your phoney sanctimony.”
*sigh* I know I’ve said this as well:
It is my considered opinion that of those who claim the title “Pastor” only 1 in 10,000 is actually qualified to be there. Again, in my opinion, the posers in the pulpit are the real problem with Christianity.
My personal approach to those who call themselves “Pastor” or “preacher” is to assume that their first name is Elmer and the last is Gantry.
I hear ya Don… Elmer Fudd would be a better pick.
Well, you know, Jesus turned the world upside down. You can’t be a good pastor if you’re still clinging to the world’s values of power, hierarchy, and authority. This is exactly what’s wrong with fundy hierarchicalism, and the other expressions of this poison which have creeped into mainstream evangelicalism.
YES. This. You are absolutely, one hundred percent right. So much of the American church has gotten caught up in pursuing and valuing the things the world considers worthy – power, wealth, recognition, and material evidences of ‘success’. That’s not God, and it’s not Christian. It’s so sad. 🙁
Spot on, doc
Ok, so for starters, can anyone explain to me what “called by God” means?
The lack of replies must mean “no.”
A statement you use to justify something so that nobody will ever question you or hold you accountable for it.
From my personal experience, so grain of salt, but my dad has actually said much of this to me and sometimes in these exact words, and it bears out what I’ve seen in others, too. It seems to mean mostly that these guys at some point in their lives had a vision of what it would be like to be ‘in ministry’, to have a position of respect and authority and be seen as a person of great holiness and wisdom.
They may or may not have actually had some legitimate basis for this, but regardless of whether the notion came from God or not, their image of it and their decision to pursue it quickly turned into ‘all about me’, how they looked and how much other people looked up to them, how much influence and respect they could have over others. This dream became so cherished that they convinced themselves that it was some kind of destiny, a right and entitlement, that God himself had ordained them to hold that position and gain that kind of power over the more lowly sheep who needed their benevolent guidance.
However well they meant to begin with, and at least some of them did, and however much God may have been in it to start with, as soon as they actually began to attain any of this, it went to their head and became more important than showing love to their families and the world. The ministry always comes first, over anything and everything, even common sense or basic decency. It became about image and authority and ‘respect’, as they define it, which usually just means you are not allowed to question, or argue, because they are RIGHT, a-men?
They Hear from God, and they will interpret it for the masses. Theirs is the anointing and thus the power and the glory and it all gets mixed in their heads until many of them really truly believe that what is given to them is given to God, they are rightfully entitled to this kind of position, effectively conflating themselves with God in the eyes of themselves and their flock, and it is an evil, insidious thing. So toxic, and so dangerous.
^yep
Thanks for the responses. I think you all have pretty much nailed it. It can be odd sometimes how most fundies are (usually militant) cessationists, but then they throw around this mystical language. I knew dozens of preacher boys at fundy U. To be honest, many of them were the most disgusting people I knew on campus. I tended to hang out with the CJs; probably because I was in the gym a lot. They all claimed this mystical calling. At the end of the day, it was just a hyper-productive pancreas.
If I were a pastor I do not think I would want a video made of me. It does smack me as self-promoting.
However, three of the pastors in the video, the first one shown behind the pulpit, the one in front of the fireplace and the one who sat next to the man in the alley, I know personally. They are all solid men who truly love their congregations and the people of their community.
Since graduating Bible college I have had a hard time getting into the ministry. I had no idea there was an “old boys network”. Plus churches don’t seem to want to hire a single man. A lot of my old friends from Bible college have written me off. But one of the men in the video has supported me and refuses to believe I am out of the will of God. And that means a lot to me.
I understand what all of you are saying about videos like this, about how they come across as self-promoting. And I do not disagree. If any of the pastors asked my opinion I would have advised them not to make this video. But just know that if fundy pastors are selfish, arrogant men the three men I know in the video are the exception.
*sigh* The problem I have with this is that three years ago I would have said the same thing about my pastor. I thought he was a wonderful man. I could give a lot of details as ‘evidence’ that he was not like those other IFB pastors.
Then I heard him, with my own ears, suggesting we just cover up child abuse and not involve the police, or even protect the child from the perp.
These guys might be great in some contexts, but they’re clearly capable of getting it very badly wrong.
“…getting it completely wrong.”
As are all of us.
Sorry, “very badly wrong”
Jason, these men may truly love their congregations and be good men, but to be part of such self-aggrandizement shows absolutely no sense of proper place or humility. For all the talk of “serving”, the whole video was self focused. This video flaunted the extravagance of these men, from the ridiculously expensive coffee maker to the fancy “fireplace”. It bragged about how much better they are because of what they do.
Big Whoop! I have been to the hospital at three in the morning for non family members. I have helped stranded motorists. Some I knew, some I didn’t. I have bought food for beggars. I won’t give a bum money, but I’ll give him a sandwich. I have given rides to people, even, GASP! a woman unchaperoned! Done yard work for old people. Helped not so old people with problems. Fixed cars for folks at church so their family could travel over holidays.
None of this to brag. The point is, we all are supposed to do these things. It is called being a friend and neighbor. I did these things and still spent time with my wife and kids. Often, my kids went with me. Not as slave labor, but because we wanted to be together, and it teaches them to care when they see, not just hear about, serving others.
I didn’t mean to blast you personally. Please don’t be offended. I’m just tired of hearing lame excuses for not being a husband and father first. That, and how hard they have it at their particular job. As if no one else in the church does anything. It’s too bad most IFB pastors fail to realize they aren’t the only ones serving God.
I am questioning the validity of a Fundy pastor helping a woman on the side of the road…I was always told a good pastor should not even ride in an elevator with a woman who is not his wife. How many would want to be seen with a woman on the side of the road?
Many Bible colleges would consider this a date!
I also wondered if SuperPastor would have stopped for a stranded mom who was wearing jeans.
Or Fat or Ugly
Are you sure about that? Jack Hyles claimed to have done some of his best “soul-winning” in elevators.
Dropped a line from that last comment. Should be:
“I was always told a good pastor should not even ride in an elevator with a woman who is not his wife.”
Are you sure about that? Jack Hyles claimed to have done some of his best “soul winning” in elevators.
Just watched again. Even more grotesque the second time. This time noticed how all the Pastors were white, male, and mostly young…except when talking about those pastors who are OLD, and presumably winding down. Mostly women were shown in the congregations and in positions of “neediness”. Also noticed the PowerPoint slide behind the pastor speaking was “Stewardship”. Which we all know in fundy circles = extortion of private funds by “local” churches. Typical.
Masters of propaganda? Only to the blind.
Pause at 2:36 to see a great study of fundy “end-time”-ology! I had a feeling it would be that before I paused it. Well, either that or a bunch of words looked up from Strong’s.
I kept waiting for Sarah McLachlan to show up.
LOL!
What I think is pathetic about this video is that these poor, overworked, underthanked pastors somehow had PLENTY of time to participate in a slick marketing promotion of their profession.
I think someone said that this was not a Lancaster Baptist Church production, but it certainly is of that ilk. WCBC students and staff are forever adulating themselves about how overworked they are for the Kingdom of God and how they just don’t have a spare moment for themselves (so please heap praise upon them and send them $$$). Until you start clicking through their Facebooks and realize that a very significant portion of their “expending themselves for God” consists of going out to eat, going shopping, goofing off, engaging in various entertainment pursuits, etc. But, the theory goes, if you do all these things with church members who are beneath you in the “spiritual maturity hierarchy” then whatever you are doing counts as “ministry” because you are “setting an example” and “engaging in discipleship.” 🙄
Yes, that’s curious, isn’t it?
From 5 a.m. until late at night, they never cease to help the hapless– except to make slick multimedia declarations of how awesome they are.
Oh wow. That is root beer. I totally missed that.
It’s the notorious gateway drug.
You start out with one root beer, pretty soon it’s whole sixpacks, and you end up guzzling two-liter magnums of ginger ale.
I saw the following comment somewhere in the last 6 months, probably here at SFL, but I thought enough of it to write it down. It bears repeating:
“I have seen more men in the pulpit who revel in the position and jealously guard their power than i have ever seen those who humbly serve and tremble at the power such a position holds and fear the corruption that is available”
Oh wow…I know the director Brandon Clementson! I knew him before he went to Crown College. The fundy world is small indeed.
Lol, I went to play the video and due to my incredibly slow internet, it played, “You are my past…” and then stopped to buffer. I figured that was probably the ideal place to stop watching. =P
That pastor counseling the fighting couple had the same expression I had while watching this ridiculous thing.