282 thoughts on “Pensacola Christian College: Taking Alumni To Court Over Domain Name”

1. I’ll let someone else get First.

   1. How very kind. 😛

2. Me!!!can I be first

3. “…and fame of PCC.”

   A definition of the word fame:

   The condition of being known or talked about by many people, esp. on account of notable achievements.

   I don’t think they understand the meaning of the word.

   1. “Notoriety” might be a better choice. Or perhaps, “infamy”. 😈

   2. Meh. “Goodwill, reputation, and fame” is a pretty common legalese catchphrase in trademark infringement suits. I doubt the powers-that-be at PCC had much to do with the choice of language. It was most likely a typical plaintifff’s lawyer hack job. (Now . . . who that attorney is may prove to be interesting. Is this another CLA job?? PCC inside counsel?? Hired hack??)

      1. PCC has an on-staff lawyer, I believe. I think one of the guys who teaches in the pre-law classes (or just the one, I wasn’t in that program so I don’t know how many teachers it has).

4. It makes you wonder what has changed in the last 10 years since the site was last updated that prompted this revenge. Perhaps too many people caught on to what was happening at PCC and dwindling attendance numbers have caused them to change their tune? Something more seems to be going on here.

   —
   The Ear

   1. In the meantime they got a new President and started seeking TRACS accreditation. The answer is probably connected to both of those things.

      1. Should someone e-mail the Student Voice website and the news of the lawsuits to TRACS?

      2. I’m sure they’re already aware of both.

         1. And TRACS is still considering them?

         2. Unfortunately, accrediting agencies (even regional ones) tend to turn a blind eye to lots of childish and bad behavior by colleges and universities. After all, who pays the agencies to accredit?

         3. And TRACS isn’t regional anyway.

         4. Deacon’s Son:
            1) If they do turn a blind eye, then that is another corrupt part of our government. However, they were looking at Penn State’s accredition when the Sandusky case came out, so I thought it would be consistent to do the same to a candidate school.
            2) Theorectically, the accredition agencies are part of the U.S. Department of Education, and should be funded solely by the Department of Education. However, I don’t deny that corruption probably exists within these agencies.
            3) If worse comes to worse, and PCC gets TRACS accredition, it won’t be recognized by everyone. Although both the TRACS and the SACS are accrediting agencies of the U.S. Department of Education, most schools take only credits from schools that are accredited by regional (and not interest-based) accrediting acengies. However, if PCC wanted SACS accredition, a fundy-lite school has their President involved w/SACS.

   2. I’m thinking maybe the Do Right BJU movement, which actually (gasp!) prompted some changes and concessions (however limited) from BJU administration may have put all fundy “colleges” on red alert regarding online grassroots criticism from students and alums. This may just be a belated clean-up effort triggered by fears arising out of that situation.

      (Yes, I know the BJU response was tepid at best, but the fact that they responded AT ALL, rather than simply blowing the whole thing off, speaks volumes to how seriously they took the potential damage that Do Right BJU could cause.)

5. What? Me? First? Wow! 😀

6. Aw man! I knew it was too good to be true. *sigh*

   1. I’m giving you a butt cushion anyway, even though I’m a dog person. 😉

      1. Thank you. I feel very honored.

         Now to get the people that sit on the right side, five rows from the front to GET OUT OF SEAT!!!

         I’ve been through at least 4 church splits and my dad always sat in the same area of every church we’ve ever attended. Lol!

      2. I’ve gotten two firsts and no butt cushion yet. I’m beginning to think I’m not good enough for the Butt-cushion Society, hereafter to be referred to as the BS.

         1. Would you settle for eight ounces of first grade butt dust? 😕

         2. Butt dust from a first grader? No thanks.

7. ….And the real kicker is that “The Student Voice” wasn’t really a true newspaper/newsletter, it was a religio-philosophical magazine dedicated to proving that PCC’s rules and controlfreakishness were “extra-Biblical” and against decent Christianity. They were dead right, but they could’ve nailed the college on SO much more….their illegal holding/destruction of US mail, the condition of certain dorms, the hypocrisy of holding students accountable for things they did during semester breaks, the rampant dorm thefts (sometimes by the RAs), etc. The SV kept everything to theology and ethics, and PCC wanted them destroyed literally for “thought crimes.”

   America would be better off demolishing these fake schools and making certain no staff can ever teach in a real school.

   1. Mr. Mike: I really agree that what PCC is doing here is punishing thought crimes. I don’t think, however, that you can lump all faculty and staff together as the agents and spies of the institution.

      I went a school very like PCC (You get three guesses). Yes, I had a number of judgey, insensitive professors. But I also had a few professors who I think of as kind of double agents: They are teaching there and secretly teaching their students about grace. In fact, my movement out of fundy circles began with these professors. I teach at a more relaxed Christian school now, and I don’t think I could do what these professors are doing. But I am so thankful for their influence in my life.

      1. Well said. There are double agents everywhere and I encountered a few myself during my 2 years at PCC. None of whom are on staff there now, and all of whom were fired (or “asked to resign”) because of the grace they were covertly showing.

      2. In fact, there tend to be “double-agent” types at most institutions of higher learning, if you think about it. There certainly were plenty at both (non-fundy) colleges I attended.

      3. Lady Julian, you ask me to distinguish between “good” and “bad” staff; the truth is that entire school is rigged toward being a paranoid police state. So it doesn’t matter how good a person is working in that society, they are still working toward bad ends.

8. Student Websites
   From the IFB school’s student handbook that my children once attended:

   “Any student who decides to operate a personal online website or contribute to a blog must register the website/blog with the pastoral staff. (Ex.: myspace.com, facebook.com, blogger.com, etc.) The website must be registered immediately upon its creation. Any student who creates a website or blog prior to attending the Academy must register the website/blog as soon as he/she is accepted as a student. All websites/blogs will be monitored for content on a regular basis. Any student found with an unregistered website/blog or website/blog material that is deemed inappropriate to the purpose and mission of the Academy will be in direct disobedience to this ruling and will be subject to disciplinary action up to and including immediate ineligibility to attend the Academy.”

   Because dad and mom are completely incapable of keeping an eye on you…

   1. JE – Just curious, what grade level where your children in at this school?

      1. We pulled them out after the oldest finished 5th grade. Following are a few of the reasons:

         *The poor quality of education for grades 7-12,
         *Our oldest daughter was approaching school age and we didn’t want her subjected to the insanity that a girl has to deal with in an IFB school,
         *We were beginning to see the light and left the church shortly afterward.

         I often volunteered for the school. I was shocked and amazed at some of the Gestapo tactics that were employed. Children of pastors, deacons and big tithers were mostly given a pass when it came to bad behavior. A few children were “targeted” and school was miserable for them. (The church secretary was a cruel and bitter woman.) I regret it took us so long to leave.

         1. Did they have a blog called Stuff 4th Graders Like? 😆

         2. Good. I am glad you took them out. Gestapo tactics are employed and as far as I am concerned that school should be closed down. I never attended the college, but did attend from 6th through 12th grade. 6th and 7th grade were miserable for me because of one teacher that seemed to make it his life’s work to make sure I cried every day of those two years.

      2. Kindergarten I think.

   2. Oh the irony that the very people who compare liberals to Stalin, Hitler, and communist China constantly take plays right out of their book.

   3. That policy is mild compared to some. My understanding is that West Coast Baptist College makes the students turn in their user names and passwords.

      I am SURE that the administration there would NEVER think of abusing that access to “plant” evidence on a student they wished to expell. 🙄

      1. “Any student who decides to operate a personal online website or contribute to a blog must REGISTER the website/blog with the pastoral staff.”

         That is what they mean by REGISTER. Students are required to provide user names and passwords. This particular church’s leadership looks to West Coast and follows their lead for the most part.

         1. Provide them with a username/password pair? Yeah, that sounds like a class-action lawsuit getting ready to happen. Especially if misuse of this escrow data can be shown. They just don’t get it, do they? Information travels freely, and even their wealth can’t do that much to slow it down.

   4. The school my children attended had these words – verbatim – in their handbook at one time. I’m told they deleted them because the administrator said he didn’t have time to micro-manage things that parents ought to be in charge of.

9. There are days when I am glad to be a professor where I am. It’s not perfect, but there are a lot worse places I could be. And today, I get to teach Hamlet. Life is good.

   1. Teaching Hamlet – awesome!!

10. I made two visits to PCC and had been enrolled but changed my mind a month before the semester started and went to a different college instead. I wonder what my life would have been like if I had gone. Either I’d be a super-fundy now or it would have sped up my de-conversion from Christianity even faster.

11. Unfortunaltely if the IFB microcosm crumbles and can no longer support the leadership with the worship to which they have become accustomed, then I fear they will spread their Zombie virus to society at large in ways we have yet to imagine.

    Prepare: for the Zombie-Taliban!

    1. Zombie-Taliban?!?!

       Don, it sounds as if you’re totally stoked about the next SOL Conference!!

    2. *sigh* I like zombies. A lot. Let’s not tarnish their good image by linking them with the IFB, ok?

       1. bwahahaha!
          a-hem… no, you’re absolutely correct, and I would like to offer my apology. (to be read with a John Cleese accent)

          Don: All right, all right, I apologize.

          Tiarali: You’re really sorry?

          Don: I’m really, really, sorry. I apologize unreservedly.

          Tiarali: You take it back?

          Don: I do, I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact, and was in no way fair comment, and was motivated purely by malice. And I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused zombies, or the Zombie family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.

          Tiarali: Ok.
          😉

          1. That’s better 🙂

12. Why do people whine so much about PCC? I just don’t get it. It is a private institution not run by the government. I hate when people talk about “free speech” as if the school is stifling it. The school has its own free speech. If you understood the Constitution, free speech relates to the government regulation of speech, not a private institution. If you choose to go to PCC, you chose to follow the rules. It is that simple. Why would one complain about an institution you have a choice not to go to? If you get there and don’t like it, then leave.

    1. Two thoughts:
       1. You must not read this web site much
       2. I can tell you weren’t raised fundy.

       1. Two replies:
          1. Why would I need to read this site much to state an opinion?
          2. I was raised fundy.

          1. Even if we were to concede this is not a breech of freedom of speech: We also have freedom of religion (and the college doesn’t tell you that leaving the campus church is forbidden if they preach doctrinal errors and harass your spiritual background whenever they please). As Americans, we assume that we are not going to be imprisoned without a trial. We have rights that prohibit search and seizure without a warrant. But the college is extremely secretive…you may or may not realize all this until you’ve paid hundreds. See my post about the admissions refusing to answer basic questions. They are also unreceptive towards disagreement or concern of any kind. And you’re just rebellious if you disagree with me about that 😆 Some parents are extremely unsympathetic to the decision to leave PCC. And without a college degree or technical experience, it is nigh impossible to support one’s teenage self in the this economy. It’s a financial, spiritual, mental, and emotional investment. Hardly walking out of a movie theater.

          2. It’s not about stating an opinion, it’s knowing what this site is about and why “people whine about PCC.” The purposes for this site (call it whining, if you want) are pretty clear about that, I thought.

          3. To Storm: It’s not that easy to just not like the rules and leave, and here’s an example as to why. The summer before I first went to PCC, I was mailed a very small pamphlet about some of the rules. It was not until I had arrived at campus that I received a large booklet that defined every single rule the campus had……THE COMPLETE RULE BOOK!!! So many and most of them I did not realize were such strict rules until I had already arrived on campus for the summer. (including the fact that we could not have Christian music unless it had no beat. I brought my Avalon and Jackie Velasquez CD, which were confiscated. I was told if I ever listened to them on campus I would face huge demerits that would probably expel me). Guess what that means, Storm? I had already paid my deposit for the year, and I’d already paid all the money to get down to the campus from the state in which I lived. Already packed too late to enroll in another school. Maybe that’s why they start a little bit later so that if you don’t like the rules it’s too late to go somewhere else! I had bad dreams for years after I left that college. It is just flat out messed up and wrong the way that they run that place and treat students at times.

    2. Storm,

       If you’ll notice, this post is about PCC suing the owner of a website criticizing them for $100,000, apparently out of revenge. (If it wasn’t revenge, they could have bought the domain name long ago.) This in spite of the fact that PCC makes its staff and students sign promises never to sue *them*, because suing is not a Christian thing to do unless you’re a ministry.

       Second, a lot of us have personal connections to PCC. I went there as a student (class of ’93) and then spent a decade on staff there; I gradually realized what was going on and left. But I went there as a exceedingly naive, and in retrospect very highly manipulated, teenager. Had they been more honest about their policies and beliefs up front, I don’t believe I would have gone. At least back then, they carefully controlled information so that you would not know what you were getting into until you were already irrevocably committed, both when enrolling as a student and when signing up for staff.

       My experience there shook my faith to the foundations, and derailed me for a long time. So, yes, I am interested in what they teach, say, and do, and I criticize it from time to time.

       I think most of the posts about PCC here are about exposing their beliefs and practices so that those who do go are at least fully informed, and perhaps in hope that some of those beliefs and practices will be reconsidered. PCC is certainly not shy about criticizing the beliefs and practices of others, and they are not immune to criticism themselves.

       1. I agree with your analysis. If someone wants to show what the school is all about and what rules you will have to follow, that is their right. I also believe that how the school is handling the domain name situation is ridiculous; however, I see people constantly bashing the school and talking about Constitutional rights when they obviously don’t know what they are talking about. Someone just commented about freedom of religion. Once again, it is a private institution, not a government action. The freedoms that people are talking about are related to the government infringing on an individual’s rights. It in no way applies to PCC. Searches and seizures relate to government action, too. It is almost hilarious to read some of this stuff. I say, get informed before you go then make an educated decision. If you choose to go there, then I don’t think you have a right to complain. I also graduated from PCC in ’99 and I wasn’t “favored” among the adminstration; however, I made it through even though I think much of the rules and regulations are ridiculous. I still had a choice and I have no reason to complain.

          1. “If you choose to go there, then I don’t think you have a right to complain.”

             That’s ridiculous. Where else in this world do you pay for a service but then have no right to complain?

             If you go to a restaurant and you wait for an hour to be seated, the food comes out cold, and the waiter spits in your drink you don’t shrug and say “oh, well. I chose to come here so I have no right to complain.”

             But for some reason when a college slaps the word “Christian” on the cover of its rule book then all bets are off. I think you need to reexamine your premise.

          2. Storm, I agree that this is not a constitutional issue in the legal sense – but the Constitution claims to proscribe “inalienable” rights, and most Americans believe that. So when a school claims to be Christian and patriotic, and then refuses all its associates the right to free speech and freedom of religion, there is a cognitive dissonance. Perfectly legal, mind you, but uncomfortable. And Darrell is right on this one – every customer has the right to complain if they receive poor service. And frankly, I think every PCC graduate has the right to complain simply because of the persistent false advertising we all received regarding the quality and portability of the “education” they offered.

          3. I’m not sure that the concepts of “free speech” and “the Constitution” are really the big points that people make about PCC; perhaps those are the arguments you’ve seen time and time again, and you feel that those are the issues you need to argue against. I dunno. To that point, though, a school that works so hard to crush free speech is deserving of any comparisons to China, NK, etc. in that regard. It’s silly and doomed to fail in this age of connectivity.

          4. I think what breaks my heart for my daughter is that she didn’t really know the “rules” before she started there. (Obviously, she didn’t’ read The Student Voice.) The reason she didn’t know the rules is that they aren’t in the handbook. A student finds them out as they go along. The deception is what gets my ire up–if she had known how it was really going to be, she wouldn’t have a right to complain. But the trillion little “oh, by the way, this or that isn’t allowed” things the other students have to tell you as a freshman are what makes “the rules” unfair. We are essentially talking about adults (yes, quite young, but adults nevertheless), and relatively well-behaved adults for that matter. Yet, they are treated like juvenile delinquents. So, I have to disagree with you there about choosing to go to PCC is choosing “the rules.”

             Meanwhile, my daughter is leading the NAS rebellion and listening to Mandisa in her iPod. (Ooohhh, what a terrible kid she’s turning out to be!) I know she would choose a different college for next year in a heartbeat if a certain young man weren’t there. I pray she does, and plan to have some extensive talks with her about her choices when she comes home for the summer.

          5. “NAS rebellion”? What’s that? And should you have mentioned that here?

          6. @kindofboard

             NAS= New American Standard. The school frowns upon such perversions of God’sWord!…cuz ya know, he could preserve it in the KJV but couldn’t in the other versions *rolls eyes

          7. Storm,

             I don’t know if you can use the reasoning that because they are a private institution, they can prohibit people from free speech. Some of these things bleed over into the private sector. You brought up the freedom of religion so lets use that as an example.

             I work at a non-religious organization. According to you, my constituional rights don’t apply to this privately owned place. However, could an executive legally fire a muslim person simply because they think all muslims are terrorists? Would their be legal action? Apparently, some rights still apply and corporate or religious america can’t just tell you what to do because you need to eat and have an education.

          8. @kindofbored She gets up before her roomates in the morning to read her Bible and do what our family calls “quiet time.” We’ve read the New American Standard Bible for about ten years now, although we own copies of every version. She knew she needed to take a King James, so she took both. (Actually, she had to go buy a King James because the copy she took was a New King James Version–horrors!) Anyway, her first week there, she called crying because someone told her the translators left out parts of the NAS and that homosexuals wrote the NIV. Oh, and that she would go to hell if she read anything else but KJV.

             As a parent, I was always like, “My kids are reading their Bibles because they want to learn more about God and walk with Jesus, isn’t that great!” They weren’t ever told to, they just follow the example of their dad and I. I wouldn’t have dreamed of dictating the version. So, I told her that I would research it and get back to her. I found that 1) the NAS doesn’t have parts missing; translators just annotated the parts that aren’t found in the earlier manuscripts. (The literature nerd in me was especially happy about this.) 2) There was indeed a lesbian style consultant on the NIV translation project. Not really a deal breaker to me–read them all, I say! So, I advised her to stay close to God and let Him speak to her with whichever version she prefers and not make waves. She follows the first part of my advice, but not the making waves part 😉
             And if you mean by–should I be posting this here?–do I sort of wish she’d get enough demerits to be expelled or not welcome back in the fall? Heck ya! (Kidding, sorta).

          9. @BibleLover-
             I remember conversations like these. Unfortunately for pretty much everyone at PCC I had been homeschooled with a classic education: yes, I even read those pagan Greeks. So having the tools of critical thinking and rhetoric at my disposal, many of these conversations ended badly.
             Them: “The NIV was translated by a lebian feminazi!”
             Me: “So.”
             Them: “But…but…they hate God!”
             Me: “How is that relevant to the accuracy, perspicuity, or availability of their work?”
             Them: “You must not be saved.”

             😛

          10. Fundyfacinated (love that name, btw),

              You have certain Title VII rights whenever you work in private employment (no discrimination based on race, color, religion, etc). However, some of the Title VII rights do not apply to religious institutions, like PCC. Sure, they can’t kick you out of school for being black, white, or any other race, but they can kick you out for being Muslim. This is where the Freedom of Religion applies. The government cannot infringe on the school’s Freedom of Religion, but PCC has the right to disciminate because of that freedom. Thank God, we have Title VII rights in private employment, but that right isn’t tied into the First Amendment of the Constitution, but to the Commerce Clause.

          11. Three comments:

              a) The inclusion of unwritten rules in the implicit social contract (Student Code of Conduct, whatever) makes it impossible for anyone entering PCC to make an informed decision about the burdens of attending the school. That’s a large part of the complaining about PCC I hear on the forum.
              b) Even if every single rule was printed in the manual in exhaustive detail (a genuine impossibility, on the order of enumerating all valid theorems in a consistent theory), tere’s no reason to expect a new college student to fully grasp what it would mean to live under such a ruleset.
              c) The student (or the family, at least) is the customer here. Declaring that the student may not object to conditions imposed on the student is silly. You reduce the options to a simple dichotomy: either accept the rules and actions of the administration completely and without reservation or complaint, OR don’t attend. Even military members (including Academy cadets, who live under some of the most stringent discipline) have the right to complain and recommend. The students should be treated neither as adversaries nor incompetents.

          12. IMHO, if you have paid good money for anything, whether it be service or product, the fact that you paid for it gives you every right to complain if you do not believe you got your money’s worth.

    3. Leave? And where – exactly – would your non-accredited credits transfer?

    4. You’re right: Pensacola has no legal obligation to recognize their students’ civil rights. But that does not mean they are above criticism or even right in their actions.

       Silencing a student newspaper makes them appear to be small and petty tyrants.

       1. Last year, Bryan College in Tennessee tried to suppress a student newspaper article about a professor who had been arrested for soliciting a minor for a sexual encounter. What they got for their efforts was national press scrutiny. I follow court cases involving student journalism, and yes, even a public institution may censor its student newspapers. You may find an examples of this in the rulings of the US Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals. That said, it is unwise for a college or university to always be trying to govern student journalism. This is why I wrote the policy for the university where I work. Some of its principles: No person alone may prevent the publication of a story. The university has a review board which must meet in order to prevent a story from publication or to withdraw a story. The board is composed of four or five members: the student editor, the newspaper advisor, an additional professor, and two deans. If a story is withdrawn, an explanation for its withdrawal will be posted. And finally, no one is obligated to make a story easy for a student journalist to get.

          1. By the way, the policy I’ve outlined is at an accredited Christian university.

          2. I’m not sure I understand: I was saying that their suppression was small and petty, not that it was illegal.

          3. You didn’t say it, but I do run into to people who assume that all censorship is a violation of the first amendment. Not saying that you had that assumption.

    5. Darrell,

       So you don’t think you need to know what you are getting into before you go there? Even before blogs and the waive of information that can be passed around so easily, you could find out everything about PCC by simply speaking with people who went there or in your Christian circles. One takes that time to choose the college, gets whatever degree he gets, then wants to waste time talking about his awful experiences and how nobody in their right mind should go. Come on! Even if you got kicked out, I don’t see why you should waste so much time complaining about it. You broke the rules; you got kicked out.

       1. Except that when former students (like me!) try to tell people what’s going on there people like you accuse us of “whining.”

          You can’t have it both ways. You’re talking out of both sides of your mouth here.

          You’re at the same time saying that everybody goes there fully informed because plenty of students can share their experiences and also saying that students who had bad experiences shouldn’t talk about them because they were fully informed when they went there. The circular logic is astounding.

          1. Did Darrell get kicked out of PCC?

          2. No, he didn’t. I was at his graduation.

       2. Why are you wasting your time telling people that they’re wasting their time? Is it because you feel that you would like to help them see the error of their ways? You’d like to help them realize that they need to do something else?

          See where I’m going here?

          1. why are you wasting your time telling storm that he’s wasting his time telling darrell he’s wasting his time? Man you’re wasting my time. 😉

    6. Okay, maybe it is poor choice of words to say you “don’t have a right to complain.” You absolutely have the right to complain; however, I just don’t get why there is so much complaining, per what I stated above.

       1. Ever check the reviews on Amazon on a certain product? Ever check out Consumer Reports or Edmunds or the like before purchasing a car? Did you see what other people had to say about your computer or phone or tv or whatever before you bought it? Are poeple who say things like “DON’T BUY THIS TV – IT DOESN’T ACTUALLY WORK” merely bitter complainers, or are they giving you useful info?

          1. From what I’m reading, these are just “merely bitter complainers.” I’m through replying to these posts. I’m going to take my PCC education and put it to good use for the rest of the day. I had to put up with some rules I didn’t like and I was on contract, but I’m a better person for it. I hope you all have a wonderful and blessed day. 🙂

          2. Excellent – enjoy teaching those sixth graders some spelling. 😀

          3. “..I’m going to take my PCC education and put it to good use for the rest of the day.”

             aka “Would like fries with that?”

             Sorry I couldn’t resist. That was just too easy.

          4. Thanks george. Way to ruin my attempt at humor.

          5. I said that I wasn’t going to post anymore, but I couldn’t resist. I am not a elementary school teacher and I don’t work at a fast food joint (even though I think there is nothing wrong with either of those professions). I happened to take my education and go to an ABA accredited law school, graduate in the top 15% of my class, pass bar examations in two states, open my own successful practice and teach as an law professor at a law school.

          6. Storm – Just admit it. You love us and are addicted to this site. 😛

          7. (even though I think there is nothing wrong with either of those professions)

             “Not that there’s anything wrong with that.”

             http://youtu.be/Oj3VphK9AMk

       2. You’re the sole arbiter of what constitutes “too much?”

          Maybe you should stop complaining about this blog. I think you’ve passed into the “too much” arena. 😀

          1. bwah!

             ^
             This outburst does not constitute a complaint.

    7. Why whine/ complain about PCC?

       Oh, I dunno… cos they’re dicks?… and when you try to describe the behavior of dicks it sounds like whining.

       sorry, if “dicks” is a cuss word where you come from”.. )

    8. While I agree with the fact that people can choose to leave (my case was complicated), and even the fact that PCC as a private institution has every right to make as many ridiculously repressive, totalitarian rule as it wants, I think that it doesnt make what they are doing right. I spent 4 years there, never graduated, due to being a contract employee, my disillusionment with that place, and millitary obligations. The only reason I did not leave that place was that I had no feasible way to do so…My parents lived in Connecticut…but I was in the Marine Reserves at the time, and I had to transfer to a unit in Tallahassee, in order to fulfill my obligations while going to school…for this reason I also worked at pcc during the summers…since I was a student worker and would get enough demerits for quitting the job , or taking a second job, so that i’d rack up the rest that I needed to be kicked out, before I could save enough to move out and still stay in the area…I basically had to stay there until I was deployed finally…but yeah it pissed me off that I was old enough to protect PCC’s freedom, but they in return treated me like a teenager…Im glad I finally left that place

       1. Sorry to hear about the complications that arose over your decision to go there Djrich. I have never seen this site before. I don’t think it can hurt me anymore than I have already been hurt, so I may or may not say more later; I’m not sure. I will say the following: I spent over 20 years there and was let go, not fired (as I was told) simply because the president and his upcoming protege’ wanted a change. That does happen in many professional jobs…doctors, lawyers, and so forth, but it hurt deeply and has caused repercussions for the last 20 or so years…Oh, if you only knew the sordid details that transpired displacing a family and children with no where to turn, at the time. The children are all grown now and very happy to be gone from the place. I am still hurting; friends I thought were friends have never spoken to me again (and I was told I did nothing wrong by the president; he and his buddy wanted a change–totalitarian dictatorship can do that) and the administration/many of my friends, I thought at the time…some who are still there used to talk viciously and negatively about their president and his wife… were told not to speak to me about being let go….fortunately hundreds of former students chat with me daily and remind me of the good I did while there…the internet can be a positive force. I am still teaching and love it and always will. Most of you here seem to be from a later era. Think wisely.

       2. Of course the fact that most students possess an ability to leave doesn’t justify PCC.

          However: falling enrollment is the only thing that has been proven to effect change at PCC. They lost *a lot* of students and suddenly a lot of the rules loosen up and they seek TRACS accreditation.

          In fact, across the broader IFB movement, I’d say the exodus of young men to Southern Baptist and PCA seminaries caused more change than anything else.

    9. Storm, you are absolutely correct in your constitutional rights argument. However, while I used to agree wholeheartedly with your “choice” argument, I have come to rethink that issue. Many, many kids that go to fundy schools do NOT have a choice in the matter (or, as someone posted here, it’s a choice between fundy u and homelessness). While my parents did not force me to go to a fundy u (by the grace of God), they have forced all my other siblings so far to do so. They homeschooled us, isolated us from family and friends, and never allowed us to have jobs (because “we might hear rock music at work”). We lived in a very rural area and the kids were not allowed access to vehicles and it would have been almost IMPOSSIBLE for me to just say “I’m 18 now and I am going to make all my own choices and take full responsibility for them so good-bye mom and dad.”

       In addition, you have to acknowledge that there is way less than full disclosure from PCC and similar schools of what the “rules” are since so many decisions are made on an ad hoc, personal, gestalt-type basis, not to mention the fact that things change ALL THE TIME.

       So, I get where you are coming from with the “choice” argument, but I don’t think it holds as much water as you think.

       I would agree that significant minority of kids that go into fundy u with their eyes wide open are responsible for their bad choices and the consequences of their decisions. But I think that minority is VERY SMALL.

       1. Deacon’s Son,

          Sadly enough, you are right about some students not having a choice. Unfortunately, legalistic parents seem to have a tight hold on their children and don’t give them much of a choice but to go to a legalist college. But, that isn’t PCC’s fault, either. PCC isn’t responsible for what the students’ parents tell them where to go.

          I guess my “irk” is that so much time is spent complaining about the school, when the comments could be more informational than just mere bashing. It is a private, religious institution that has set standards for the people that go there. Are they somewhat outlandish? I think that we can mostly agree that they are. It is just when people start talking about their rights and having nothing better than complain when it is really just choice to go there or not…whether it is your personal choice or your parents. I hope that people are taking my comments as advocating for the school. Believe me, I don’t think they are perfect. But, when it comes to the rules and standards set, they have the right to set them and people have the right not to go there.

          1. Storm, you have even more right to not stick around on a blog that clearly bugs you. In fact, you have EVERY right whereas students at PCC abdicate their rights the second they sign on as students.

             Sooooo ….

          2. The only students who could have truly gone to PCC with “eyes wide open” were those lucky enough to find current or former students who were actually willing to tell them the complete truth about how the school is.

             All I got was a “Before You Arrive” booklet, which was frankly ridiculous in how little information it gave me. The only people I seemed to be able to find were the advocates, so I really did believe going in that “the rules are really no big deal” and “you’ll get used to them very quickly.” And once you are there, the spiritual manipulation starts (“Thinking of leaving? Don’t quit on God! HIS WILL IS DEFINITELY FOR YOU TO BE HERE!”) And once you’ve registered, paid your money, moved into the dorms, possibly started working, etc., just getting up and leaving isn’t as simple as so many try to make it sound.

             Their rules, particularly their attempt at having complete control over all communication, goes far beyond a college’s right to have reasonable standards and expectations. No college or institution has the right to completely control the lives of its students or staff like PCC does, and slapping the name “Christian” or “religious” on it doesn’t magically make it right. “Legal” maybe. Right, no.

          3. I agree, Mandy. Unfortunately the whole “God’s will” thing spills over to other Christian colleges too. When I was considering leaving Patrick Henry College a “friend” told me that if I left I would be sinning no matter what because “if it’s God’s will for you to be here then you are sinning to leave and if it’s not God’s will for you to be here then it was a sin for you to be here in the first place.” I replied, “No. It would be a sin for me to continue to waste time and money pursuing a degree at an institution that can’t stop lying to its students about accreditation!”

          4. Storm, wow, for being such a smart lawyer, as you say you are, you sure have a lot of grammatical errors.

    10. @Storm. Nope, you’re done before you even try to make your point. Abusers attack those who speak out. In your case, calling it “whining.” I will not read your comment further because you have already shown your true self.

13. Honestly, someone has got to forward this message for me to Gage.
    I stumbled across the Voice archives in late 2006/early 2007. I was a high school senior attending an IFB high school, which PCC faithfully recruited at EVERY SINGLE YEAR! I had applied to PCC and had been given “tentative acceptance.” I swear I had no issue with keeping rules. But I would have no clue what PCC considers acceptable discipline without the voice. I started asking my admissions counselor about what kind of actions could warrant prohibiting my contact with my home pastor (during socializing) or campusing. I also became curious about how the college would respond to one or two doctrinal differences, and if the college was in the habit (as BJU is) of expelling Calvinists. Anyway, I asked admissions if this was the case. She promptly cried “You seem like a very rebellious young woman who thinks she can change the world with her beliefs” 😯
    The scary thing was, she did NOT deny the disciplinary procedures found on the Voice. And she was so UNREASONABLE about the whole thing. *There are plenty of Arminian colleges that can calmly state their position without name-calling*
    Later, I told my IFB classmates what PCC said about me being so “rebellious” and they all laughed at the sheer stupidity of pairing that word with me. As for standing up for my beliefs regardless of how anyone feels…I was IFB, c’mon people…they need to look in the mirror!
    But back to the voice, those guys who wrote for the voice basically saved my life, to say nothing of my spirituality. This May, I’m graduating from a regionally accredited college…where I got to hear about imago Dei and a bit about grace.
    I cringe to think about PCC attempting to control the website…there could still be people like I was out there. Someone tell him I’m begging him to remember his fundy tactics training and fight for it!

    1. ” I started asking my admissions counselor about what kind of actions could warrant prohibiting my contact with my home pastor (during socializing) or campusing.” This might just be the most appalling part of your story. I don’t get how any college (fundy or not) can tell you that you cannot talk to your pastor/spiritual advisor.

       1. Well apparently, according to some people on this site, none of your rights count in a private institution, and they can hold you indefinatley without a phone call.

          1. It’s not “according to some people.” It’s fact. http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/uncsam/complain/educ.htm

             The law only applies to public universities. Private schools operate according to contract law. However, “The classroom is peculiarly the ‘marketplace of ideas.’ The Nation’s future depends upon leaders trained through wide exposure to that robust exchange of ideas,” according to Keyishian v Board of Regents, which means we can argue that none of these Fundy Us are legitimate educational facilities. (Although I’m sure most of us already knew that.)

       2. Well, I was trying to diagnose if denying pastoral contact was part of socializing/campusing. The admissions department never even attempted to answer me! So as far as I can tell, if I’m female and I come from a church with a male pastor (as is the case)…I may or may not be forbidden contact with him. You would think that if this was NOT the case, admissions would have been willing to say so.

    2. I like this story. 😛

    3. ….You make me so very, very glad that I WAS a rather rebellious and also quite broke teenager, who ended up taking a couple of classes at the local college here and then dropping out, instead of finding a way to manage the tuition to go to PCC – I’m not sure about the options, actually. My parents would have been happy if I’d wanted to go to either BJU or PCC, but I would have been more likely to choose PCC if I’d seriously considered either one, and after homeschooling K-12 with mostly Abeka, that was kind of the logical outcome for a lot of kids we knew. (I can’t remember now if they are actually affiliated?) We used BJU materials for Bible lessons and A&O for high school math and science, but the families we knew were heavily centered around Abeka for the most part.

       I nearly ended up losing my faith entirely anyway, just because of the basic fundyness of family and church, and if I’d ended up at one of the colleges, I can pretty much guarantee I’d have crashed and burned quite spectacularly. I knew we, for certain, never heard any of this or had any idea that they controlled things that way – it was actually considered the ‘probably-less-conservative’ option between the two; they sound about as bad as each other in different ways.

       I don’t think HAC was even on our radar, though…we weren’t IFB, just ultra-fundamentalist non-denom homeschoolers.

       1. Yes, Abeka Books is an arm of Pensacola Christian College.

14. These kinds of antics would land any other school a massive lawsuit over the civil rights violations.

    But, of course, having attended three different fundy Us myself, I’m not at all surprised by this.

    1. To clarify: *Public* or federally funded schools would get into trouble over the civil rights violations. We all know we leave our rights at the door once we enter a Fundy U.

       1. To further clarify, we all know **in hindsight** that we had to leave our civil rights at the door of Fundy U. Most of us didn’t know that so much before we got there.

          1. +1

          2. If I may add…not only our civil, but our spiritual rights. There spiritual atmosphere is suffocating. There is 0 concept of the priesthood of the believer. I didn’t realize how amazingthat doctrine was untill they tried to take it away…

          3. Nice to meet you George…Sigh…*their spiritual atmosphere…

       2. I always found it ridiculous how the leaders of fundy U’s are always ready to complain long and loud when they feel that THEIR civil rights to free speech and freedom of religion are being infringed upon even a tiny bit, yet in the same minute kick out students who dared to sit at a lunch table and have a serious discussion about Calvinism. (Yes, for those who doubt, it has happened, more then once)

          1. Kicking out anyone who talks about Calvinism is in the rulebook. I remember being curious about it every year when I reread the book. Now I’m pretty much a Calvinist, thanks in large part to my husband, whom I met at PCC.

15. ➡ Dear Lord,
    I’m so glad my alma matter Bob Jones University (BJU) would never commit such a blatant selfish and self-righteous act that would make them look so foolish while professing themselves to be wise 😯 😯

    I’m thankful that even now they must be ctiticizing the arrogant idiocracy of that Florida college….that can’t even become a university….losers.

    And all Gid’ people said…

    1. HONOLULU!!

    2. B-A-M!

16. The student voice was what led me to SFL. I was desperate one night a few months ago to figure out if I was indeed still a Christian because I’d left the IFB a few years ago. I had issues I’d never dealt with from being in. I thought I was mostly fine. But when I started reading their archives, I started shaking. My husband didn’t know what was wrong. I had to show him the site. He was incredulous. He had no idea people lived like that. After I read that site till about 4 in the morning, I went searching for more, and voila, SFL popped up.

    1. Oh, sweetheart, welcome to SFL! I’m glad you’re free, though. Galatians 5 had a profound affect on showing me that not only is the IFB rules wrong but totally not what being a Christian is about. I remember reading Galatians 5:1 after I left and crying like a baby. It’s my freedom verse.

       1. Natalie, thanks for that verse. I just read it on a parallel online Bible, and I love how the NLT says it.
          “…don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law.” Happy words!

    2. Many of the rites and rituals of the IFB are relatively new and were not practiced by the early Christians

       1. And if they knew that, they would probably go crazy or retaliate against whoever told them that. I think they think they are doing what the original, early church did. For them, Protestantism is about returning to the days of the early church before Catholicism corrupted it.
          (My creds: I’m a mostly-IF Baptist-raised, Fundy U. student)

          1. Hah. What a rude awakening they’d get if they actually read the Fathers of the early Church (e.g., Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Irenaeus).

17. I went to pcc my freshman year from 91/92 and then transferred out (luckily my credits transferred to an accredited school). I knew they had lots of rules when I started and in 2 months I saw exactly who and what they were. I played their mind games. I was going to leave after 1 semester, but I met some great friends (and a girl too) and decided to stay and piss off my floor leader who, for some reason did not like me (maybe cause I called them on their “rules”). That place is the complete opposite of what a ‘Christian” school should be, I never saw any love for someone who had made a unwritten rule “mistake”. I saw the mind games (re.shadowing) and then that person would just disappear, never to be spoken of again. They called me on stuff that I never did, threatened to expel me and when it was not true, there was no apology, no “we are sorry we made mistake”. There was no love at that place whatsoever, an empty shell or a mirage so to speak. It was all for show. To me, the phrase “all hat, no cattle” fits this place perfectly.

    1. Yeah, the most damning indictment I can bring against PCC? You cannot find the fruit of the Spirit there. Saccharine smiles and authoritarian behavior and thought control, but no transformation. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness – for the most part the administration doesn’t know the meaning of the words.
       I believe it is fundamentally dishonest for the school to use the word “Christian” in their name.

       1. Obviously you didn’t Catch the Spirit.

          1. Some things just shouldn’t be contagious.

          2. Somewhat sad story, but my former youth pastor, Mike Pisney, was the assistant youth pastor at Campus Church for awhile and he was the person who first suggested the “Catch the Spirit” slogan. To be fair to him, Mr. Pisney was much more spirit-filled than most fundie pastors and was, most of the time, a pretty cool guy. While he tended to gently “push” PCC on us, he was really quite supportive of just about any college choice that the teens in his youth group made.

18. Seven words you will never hear from most people in authority at an IFB institution of any kind.

    “we are sorry we made a mistake”

    1. George! This was to be a reply to ktmrc8.

    2. Being accused falsely of lying, treated like a subhuman (never apoligized to) and 25 years later visiting the church to be ignored while they treat my wife so kindly has persuaded me to never return. Also, one of these arrogant idiots tried to persuade my girlfriend (now wife of 30 years) not to marry me. These arrogant fools deserve all the criticism and more.

19. I hope TRACS will seriously consider not accrediting them based on this non Christian behavior. I also hope Sword of the Lord will stop accepting advertising from a school that sues fellow believers but since they are SOLs major advertiser I’m not holding my breath for that one.

    1. TRACS is fake accreditation anyway. When I was applying for grad school (at a real university) I got in on the strength of 85th percentile test scores and a recommendation by the VP of our company. I did not get in based on my PCC education. It turns out, real schools are motivated by 1)Fame, and 2) Money [the two are interrelated, especially when it comes to grants]. So, according to my associate dean, TRACS accreditation (or any other accreditation that he has never heard of before) doesn’t mean diddly-squat. For general degrees (in Florida), its SACS accreditation or nothing.

       1. I’ve made this point before, but TRACS is not “fake.” Yes, it is many orders of magnitude less prestigeous than regional-accreditation, but it does mean something. Since getting TRACS, many Bob Jones grads have found it much easier to transfer their credits to other schools and/or get into the graduate program of their choice. I attended Patrick Henry College when it was in the throes of its accreditation nonsense and, while the fact that they settled for TRACS and dropped their bid for regional was the reason why I left, the fact that they had TRACS allowed me to transfer and complete my degree elsewhere at a regionally-accredited university.

          1. TRACS can also more easily enable a school to apply for SACS later on. The jump into SACS would be nearly impossible for a school like BJU or PCC without a complete implosion. TRACS is a good way to benchmark academic and authority change in steps. Later, if someone comes along with brains and balls, it’ll be less traumatic for the institution to go for SACS.

          2. Yes, I realize its not literally fake, and it will allow credits to transfer to some schools. And to be fair, my unaccredited degree was never a hindrance – although to be fair that had more to do with my test scores than anything else.

20. How very Christian of them. Great example. They’re doing a fine job of ruening their own rep. They don’t need help.

21. I love how they say that Christians aren’t supposed to take other Christians to court. So, I guess a way around that is to just declare someone not a Christian, then it’s okay, I guess. 🙄

    1. Yeah, wonder how they’ll approach that in chapel, class, church, etc. from now on. Oh, wait – no change.

    2. Hey. That was going to be my comment, stealer. 😛

       Seriously, though, I’d imagine in this very instance they justified the suit with “Well, anyone who would run this site and contribute to harming our reputation is just not a true believer.”

    3. I remember a chapel service where Pastor Schettler preached on not suing Christians and ended by asking everyone for a show of hands pledging to never, ever sue any believers. He seemed pretty unhappy with the mediocre response.

22. I was there for the whole “Student V” meltdown. I was suspiciously kicked out at that time because they assumed I was involved. First, it was my third semester, and parties involved were seniors. Second, I was an art major (huge red flag).
    I was not involved. It was news to me like most everyone else.
    My dad, a pastor, practically rejoiced when I was sent home.
    They would not allow me to return.
    I am neither legalistic, nor have I “turned my back” on Christianity.
    I live a normal life. I wear jeans – to church (gasp!), but I’m always there for services and teach Children’s Church with my husband. PCC was the scariest, most fun time of my life to that point. I wouldn’t trade it, or my lasting friendships for anything.

    1. Hey Morninglory!! Good to “see” you on here! We did make some good friendships at pcc and I am glad I have friends from there. The good memories and great people I met there does not diminish the atrocities that these people pass off under the guise of their made up religion.

23. If only Jack Hyels were alive today, he’d have something to gossip about at this years pastors school. He spent a good portion of the final years of his live bad mouthing PCC, Ruckman, and Mutsch.

    Found this on YouTube.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll1Y-JHNHq8

    1. Looking at that picture of Hyles and company with dark glasses reminds me of The Matrix. Creepy

       1. Wasn’t Hyles caught cheating on his wife?

       2. I think Hyles’ eye sight went bad the last few years of his life so he wore “Ray Charles” sun glasses. Hyles used to say “Sunglasses are a sin” yet wore dark sun glasses quite often.

    2. This was from Pastors School 1996. FBC was renovated at the time to what it looks like now. Chicago International Amphitheater played host to Pastors School ’96 and Hyles had “Doctors” Joel Smith and Al Lacy praise the KJV all night long. Lacey said he would even team up with Hyles and wrestle John MacArthur and John Piper then Lacey said he and Hyles were going to “invade” TBN and take them off the air.

       Of course Hyles went on his anti-PCC rant criticizing IFB’s who sent their kids to PCC. The next year, PCC released a VHS promo tape and Greg Mutsch preached on the tape and defended PCC and then rebuked Hyles and Al Lacey.

       Gotta love Fundies Hating Fundies. Auburn-Alabama doesn’t even compare to HAC VS PCC.

24. Any institution of higher learning that goes to such lengths to muzzle the minds of its students, in my view, is not educating in the truest sense of the word. Learning requires questioning authority, which can be done with respect and grace. Lumping all inquiry about the school’s policies, doctrines, rules, and curriculum under the heading of “rebellion” is educational insanity.

    Unless, of course, they’re just looking to create more lemmings.

    1. This is absolutely true. For example, I asked my daughter what she was studying in her freshman English class. She is doing grammar worksheets. What?! Not writing papers, learning to express an opinion and communicate her own thoughts? Educational insanity indeed. It didn’t work with Darrell, though–he’s not what I’d deem a lemming 😉

       1. I hear you. When my youth pastor took us on the obligatory “yay PCC” trip my senior year, I was vastly unimpressed with the lack of intellectual rigor of PCC foreign language classes (my main area of interest at the time). Of course, the fact that I learned Greek in high school may have altered my expectations of what a typical “college-level” language course requires.

       2. Yeah. Those dang rebellious independent thinkers always seem to break free…

    2. As a corollary, if Jesus ever behaved the way PCC demands of its students, we wouldn’t have a New Testament.

25. I was a staff kid, went to PCA from 6th grade on, followed by four years at PCC. Every member of my family (including in-laws) has either worked at or graduated from PCA/PCC. While I really, really dislike the rules at PCC, what I hate even more is the way they treat people. THAT is something you cannot find out before you get to the college. THAT is something that unfortunately, some people learn the hard way, and it has lasting effects on their lives. THAT is something that people sweep under the rug when they start talking about how they can’t stand it when people complain about the college. It goes deeper than dumb rules. I think some of the stories I have about how the administration has treated some of my family members would shock people. They have absolutely no business treating people the way they do, and then calling themselves Christian. They have no idea what the word “grace” means, because they rarely show it. What’s going on right now with this domain name is a perfect example. They are unaware of their (well-deserved) horrible reputation, because they are so convinced that they are doing “God’s work.” I could never recommend PCC to anyone – and it’s not based on ridiculous rules (but I do think the rules should also be a deal-breaker). Let’s not forget that many students are basically being forced to go there by their parents. Those kids are the ones I worry about the most. I was kind of forced to go there, but was a town student, and had already made up my mind about the place, and was rarely surprised by any of the crazy things that happened. Sorry this turned into such a rant. I just get really annoyed when people say people have no right to complain about PCC.

    1. The kicker PCC story for me was when two siblings that I grew up with in church were at PCC and were prohibited from leaving in spite of a hurricane evacuation order. They were told that if they left, they would be fired from their student jobs and possibly expelled. Their mother was frantic.

26. Did not attend PCC for college but I worked on staff at PCC for way too long. It was a horrible experience. I still get sick to my stomach when I think about it. Many of the supervisors are down right ungodly in the way they treat people under them. The administration knows but does nothing about it. When you have to speak to someone in administration you have to keep your eyes lowered so as not to look like you are opposing them. What they say goes whether it is right or wrong. It’s the administrations way or the highway and no one opposes the new president. The most horrible experience I ever ever had!!!!!!!!!!!

27. The comment from Kelly is 100% accurate. The way the staff is treated is so awful that I could write a book about it and people would be horrified to think a Christian organization would act this way! When I was done with my contract I ran as fast as I could – even thought of visiting sends me into panic mode.

28. Many students who go to PCC don’t actually have a choice to speak of. It’s go there or another fundy u. Or maybe go there or get out. To your average 17-19 year old kid those are scary choices, and not really choices at all. Let’s see, choice of Pensacola (warm) or Crown Point (snow). Choice of PCC or homelessness. Which would you choose? Losing friends, family, and home is daunting no matter what your age.

    1. This is *exactly* it. I was barely 17 when I was sent off to Fundy U (I’d graduated early). I literally was given no choice. It was Fundy U or the street.

       Looking back, sure, there were other choices I could have made. I could have even asked extended family members for a couch. But I had no transportation, no way to get out, and no way to even contact those family members since they’d long been cut off.

       I have a lot of regrets, but I also know that I did the best I could with the cards I’d been dealt.

    2. They have a choice– there are many people who make exactly that choice. They move out on their own, start working, whatever it takes.

       Granted, it’s a hard, hard thing to do especially with no outside support. But I’ve always admired the people who make that choice.

       1. In theory there are choices. However, in reality you have no choices. If you want food in your belly and a warm place to sleep, sometimes you sell out to the lowest bidder. If you’ve been taught all your life that the world is bad, and have been isolated (homeschooled, no job, no license, no nearby family, no cell phone, little to no internet/tv) as some fundy kids are, you don’t trust the world. You certainly don’t trust your own judgment because you can’t even decide what clothes to wear or music to listen to. There are some who face these so-called choices of fundy u or the street. Perhaps some strong teenagers can choose freedom, but they are few and far between. Not every choice is equal and opportunities seldom are.

          1. It’s a fine point but there are actually people who have made the choice. They sleep in their cars, live in a homeless shelter, whatever. Usually it doesn’t even require that– most people have a grandparent or aunt or cousin or even a neighbor who would take them in.

             The biggest thing that PCC and Fundamentalism does is make you BELIEVE that you don’t have a choice but you always do.

          2. As I said, “Looking back, sure, there were other choices I could have made.” My parents had isolated us from every one of our extended family members. I didn’t have access to their numbers, no transportation and, to my 17 yo mind, no way out.

             I certainly COULD have found a couch to surf for a while, but that would be a short-term solution to a long-term problem. So, as I’d said earlier, I’d played the cards I was dealt to the very best of my ability. I’m not going to beat myself up over choices I made 20+ years ago as a scared, abused teen.

       2. EC, by your logic, everyone who is involved in an abusive situation is partly at fault because they stay.

          1. Oh good grief. Who, beside you, said anything about blame?

             I’m just pointing out that people *CAN* leave. And I wish someone had come along side of me at age 18 or whatever and laid that out for me.

          2. What a petulant response! I didn’t say that you said that, I said that it was a logical extension of what you did say. And I was correct in making that assertion. “Adulthood” does not imply 100% personal responsibility for the negative CONSEQUENCES of one’s choices. Life is simply more complicated than that. And yes, you were basically saying, if you don’t want to deal with religious abuse then just don’t go to fundy u even if you have to live in your car or on someone else’s couch, which is exactly the same thing as saying if you don’t want your boyfriend to beat you and molest your kids then go to a women’s shelter or live on the streets.

             Not everyone has the luxury of simply saying, “I don’t want to do this so I’ll go do something else now.” Being 18 may mean that you are LEGALLY allowed to say that anytime about just about everything, but if my experience as a lawyer has taught me anything it is that just because you have a legal right doesn’t mean that your circumstances actually enable you to exercise that right.

             It is a FACT that kids coming out of fundy homes are frequently unable to exercise the emancipation that comes from turning 18 and having the legal right to make decisions for themselves. (Assuming, of course, that their parents and churches have even let them know about that fact . . . my parents and grandmother have told my siblings repeatedly that they aren’t legally emancipated until they are 21 and that is the legal basis for them forcing my siblings to attend West Coast Baptist College. They also taught all of us that no matter what the “law of man” says, the law of God says that you must stay 100% under your parents’ authority until you get married with their permission.) I wasn’t allowed to get a driver’s license until my 18th birthday and was never given access to a vehicle. I would have had to walk . . . literally . . . almost 15 miles just to reach the nearest town that might have had a job available for me. (And my parents were in ATI, which teaches that if an adult child “runs away from home” you are supposed to call the police and then chase them down and whip them with a belt until they come home.) There would have been no “living in my car” because I didn’t have one. How was I supposed to get this magic job that would allow me to “be an adult and make choices” if I was LITERALLY living on the streets with no access to food, shelter, or sanitation in a rural East Texas town in the middle of summer?? EVERY member of our church and my grandparents who lived in town would have taken my parents’ side 100% and given me no help whatsoever. Not to mention the fact that I had been brainwashed for years to believe that doing anything like that would mean that I was living “in sin” and “out of fellowship with God” so he “wouldn’t hear my prayers or bless me.”

             Thus, I stayed and put up with religious, emotional, and verbal abuse as a young adult until I persuaded my parents bit by bit to first let me go work for ATI for two years and then, finally, go to college when I was 20. Even then, I only got to go with my mother kicking and screaming the whole way, but for once in his life my father stood up to her and told her I was going to get to go. That was only because he had hand-picked that college for me and wanted me to go there. But at least it was a way out so I took it. Thank God it wasn’t a fundy “college.”

             So, no, I don’t buy your ridiculous argument that “you’re an adult so just don’t do things you don’t want to do.” The fact is, not every adult has that luxury. Economic, psychological, and spiritual realties dictate otherwise. Perhaps your situation was different, but for me and many others like me, that was how it was.

          3. I think I need to add you to the list of people not to read. I never said or implied a lot of that stuff.

             I only said that people have the absolute ability to leave. They’ve had Jedi mind tricks played on them so they don’t realize it, making it practically impossible. But they *can* leave and they should be encouraged to do so.

          4. Someone who is told if they don’t have sex they will be shot (with a gun to their head) can refuse. And die.

             Someone can choose to leave a fundy university, yes. But in some circumstances, people who do so are disowned by family members, have no financial support, nowhere to stay, no qualifications to get a job, and no accredited credits to transfer to another university. For some, leaving a fundy university means poverty and isolation.

             Yes, they can leave. Yes, there are consequences that are more severe for some than for others. Some people cannot reasonably leave. It would be nice if that were acknowledged.

          5. EC, if you still think after reading everything that people have posted here that this is a matter of nothing more than “Jedi mind tricks” then I really don’t have anything else to say. Feel free to add me to your “list.” You’re definitely on my “ignorant and judgmental blowhard” list!

          6. ^5! You made the list! It’s pretty cool over here. I make brownies sometimes. 😀 Pancakes this morning — want some?

          7. Deacon’s Son:

             Honestly, I didn’t read your long story because it was a long story and I was in a hurry.

             I’m sorry you went through that. I understand exactly why you made the decisions you made. I don’t blame you for them nor do I know what you could have done differently.

             I’m sorry I responded that way before I read your story.

             However, I still think you’re projecting YOUR experience, which is pretty far out on the extreme end, onto more normal PCC student situations.

             I believe nearly all PCC students have some way to leave. I do not blame them if they decide to stay. I just don’t to reinforce the thinking that people have no options, because I believe most students would be better served by transferring out.

             I have no idea why you’re pegging me as judgmental, it seems pretty judgmental of you to do that. I’m not trying to be an ass, but I never “blamed” anyone– that’s you imaging or projecting.

29. I would just like to remark briefly on the $100,000 figure. As an attorney, it is a pet peeve of mine when lawsuits are discussed in the media (or on blogs :wink:) and the amount of requested damages is thrown out there like “oh my gosh can you believe they are asking for THAT MUCH MONEY!?!?!” In reality, lawyers know that the amount of damages requested in the initial complaint/petition has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the amount of money that is expected to come out on the other end. Generally, damages amounts in complaints are listed for two purposes only:

    (1) Creating or defeating jurisdiction in a particular court (since various damages amounts can limit your access to certain courts – e.g., small claims court vs. “regular” state court; federal court limits some cases to $75,000 or more of damages).

    (2) Bluffing.

    That’s it. Thus, I wouldn’t suggest taking the $100,000 figure seriously at all. Again, this was probably a number that PCC’s lawyer pulled out of thin air and a decision which the college had next to nothing to do with.

    1. I think they are simply hoping that Peter Gage will not want to hire a lawyer and fly to west Florida to defend himself. They’re trying to make him settle before trial and just hand over the name.

       1. I believe the legal term for Christians attempting to seize things for free is “good stewardship.”

30. Looks like something may have been worked out. Because I went to pensacolachristiancollege.com and was redirected to pcci.edu automatically.

    1. Not for me. Either my DNS servers haven’t gotten the message OR your computer has a browser hijack built in the PCC computer labs.

    2. I got the re-direct.

    3. Really? I wasn’t when I tried.

31. Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Where man’s agenda intrudes (whether religious or political), bondage results. Religious institutions are on the cutting edge of restricting freedom in every way, whether it’s a ministerial college, or a church steeped in authoritarian methods. Jesus said this about man’s craving for authority: “Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you…” (Mark 10:42-43). but then, why let the Bible stand in the way of a good, frothy, totalitarian tirade or mindset?

32. Out of all the IFB schools PCC is the most “laid back” according to reports.

    Larry Brown joked all the time about “Not going to Florida ‘cuase I’d go blind seeing a girl in shorts.”

33. PCC is so proud of and is always boasting of having students from 60 different countries around the world. And yet, they aren’t very understand toward us. Christmas, for example: no one is allowed to stay on campus. Well, what about us who can’t afford to go home? My parents are missionaries over seas, and it’s not like we’re “rolling in the money”. Ever invited yourself to someone else’s home because there was no where else to go?–it’s kind of embarrassing. What about the phone? In order to call home, we had to pay $50 in order to BE ABLE to call internationally. Then it was about $2 per minute. I wish they had have told us this at the very beginning instead of letting on that we had “400 free minutes every month to call anywhere we wanted!” My parents came to town and wanted to visit a supporting church, but I couldn’t go with them because those churches weren’t “50 miles away from PCC”. Oh, and I couldn’t visit a supporting family that lived in town because they happened to have a guy didn’t go to PCC or PCA, and so therefore the parents weren’t “PCC approved chaperons”. And yet my brother could go even though they also had a daughter who didn’t go to PCC or PCA. My dad called the school to ask what he could do to allow me to go over to visit. They had him fill out forms and talk to so-and-so, and after all of that, they still said I couldn’t go. I was allowed to work on campus, but my brother wasn’t because he’s Canadian (I was born in the US, so have dual citizenship). PCC wasn’t understanding when it came to bills either. When my sister went there, instead of giving her the school bill, they sent it to my parents. However, by the time my parents got the bill, it was past the due date and so a late fee was added to my sister’s school bill…every month! When my sister talked to them about it, they were all “we’re sorry but there’s nothing we can do.” Now after 10 yrs, my parents are sick and tired of dealing with PCC.

34. If I remember, PCC uses the same Abeka textbooks used by the High School. Glad I never went to PCC as I couldn’t stand Abeka curriculum but it was better than Bob Jones.

    1. Get this, when my husband was given his book list for US history, he was directed to buy the old edition. They had just come out with the new edition high school level textbook and were marketing it to high schoolers, but they still had several hundred copies of the previous edition and insisted that the college students use the outdated high school level textbook!!!

       1. They use high school textbooks in college? Weird.

    2. They use Jr. High text books at Bob Jones.

       Plus at Bob Jones, they make you watch “Unusual Films” productions like “Wine of Morning” and “Red Runs The River” and you have to give Oral Book reports on them!!! Fundies love to treat students like little kids.

35. After reading these comments, I really think there needs to be some sort of “transition ministry” that helps kids get out of these abusive fundy colleges and into real schools or gainful employment.

    1. Excellent idea. And thanks for volunteering to start this ministry.

       1. I was serious 😀

          1. I agree, Deacon’s Son. I can identify with a lot of your story you posted upthread, unfortunately. Although I also “did the best I could” as an abused, terrified, and (frankly) clueless teenager, having a supportive and encouraging network or individual in my life would have been so helpful in the transition process. I know I can’t do anything formal or structured along those lines, but I think a lot about my oldest niece who has gradually become caught up in the web of fundystan, and how she–at least, the last few times I saw her–had become so quiet and unhappy. She stopped smiling and looked so lost, and it reminded me of myself as a nine or ten year old. I am estranged from my family now, but I hope that someday she finds her way out and remembers that I was a kind person, and maybe she will seek me out. I would be so happy to listen to her and tell her it’s not her fault, and be with her on this journey. I can hope to do that much someday, at least.

    2. My wife and I have had that same thought, we wish we could help people who are going through the things we have. I have two cousins who are on their own because their parents confiscated their bank accounts and kicked them out of the house when they decided it was not God’s will that they graduate from PCC. They live on the other side of the country, and we wish so much we could have provided a place for them.

    3. Well, there are halfway programs for Amish youth. I think this is a great idea.

36. If anyone wants to see what Big Christian Brother tried to steal, here you go. http://web.archive.org/web/20010702090905/http://www.pensacolachristiancollege.com/

    1. So here’s what we need to do because you KNOW they think that now that they purloined the domain name that they have permanently shut off all access to this information. We need to take turns e-mailing their admissions department about once a month saying, “oh I found this information online about PCC and I was wondering what your response is” and then including the link.

       Just so they know that no matter what, the truth is out there to stay.

       1. No, no no no don’t do that…you actually can get things taken down off of archive.org if you own the domain the info was taken from. :/ Not sure what the rules are exactly, as far as if the domain changes hands, but I know people who have gotten things taken down before.

          1. Good to know. Well, in that case we need Darrell to archive everything on here. 😉

          2. That’s ok, I’m in the process of taking screen shots. Of every. Single. Page. The truth will live 😈

          3. The archives of that data are already in the possession of several ex-alumni that have the means of putting it back on the Interwebs.

             PCC students were doing this stuff 20 years ago. The Student Voice may have been the very earliest IFB watch website.

          4. The better alumni of PCC have these early adopters to thank for the blossoming of the IFB-criticism movement. They have a lot to be proud of, in spite of the outward culture of that place.

             I thank them and salute their courage (I attended a regular college.)

37. “Saccharine smiles and authoritarian behavior and thought control, but no transformation. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness – for the most part the administration doesn’t know the meaning of the words. I believe it is fundamentally dishonest for the school to use the word “Christian” in their name.”

    ❗ Spot On ❗

    Recently, I had a teenager at church ask about PCC.
    Her parents had apparently ‘caught the Spirit’ of the extremely “low cost education”. Their family was very suprised by my condemnation of PCC, and the mother asked ?WHY?

    My response: “PCC is like the story 1984, with Taliban Gestapo governorship.”
    I don’t understand why they didn’t like my review. ❓

38. You can voice your onions of Pensacola Christian College here…maybe even include some quotes from the Student Voice:

    http://www.studentsreview.com/FL/PCC.html

    💡

    1. Opinions – not onions…Stop it, George!

    2. I doubt that Indiana University at Bloomington is similar to PCC, despite what that weblink says.

       1. I just clicked the link and it took me directly to the area for Pensacola Christian College reviews…weird.

          First review I read:

          “I to this day have nightmares about having to go back to PCC. I know many people had a great experience and I am happy they did. I met many great friends and teachers and my education was top notch, however being it was unaccredited it has completely hindered me both in a career and potential graduate school. I was homeschooled and raised in a strict Baptist home. A lot of the rules at PCC weren’t that different from home – but eventually other new, offshoot rules started coming out. I’m embarrassed to tell people where I went to school.
          Rules you won’t know about until you go: you won’t ride in an elevator or walk in a stairwell with anyone of the opposite sex. You cannot study with someone of the opposite sex in the library – you can’t talk to them even. If your brother or sister (whichever is opposite your gender) attends the school and you try to talk to them, you’ll be asked to separate. (This is not just in the library but anywhere mixed groups aren’t allowed to socialize). When you explain that you’re siblings, they’ll say that’s great but you are tempting the other students to do wrong so take it elsewhere. When I attended (01-05) I was sent back from registering for classes because my sandals had a toe divider between the big and second toes. No one could explain to me why this was wrong, only that it was. As a girl you’ll be ridiculed in the local shopping areas by any number of people. Everyone knows who you are and they think you’re part of a cult, regardless of how polite you are. You won’t be allowed to wear pajama pants in your room until you literally are getting in to bed. You can’t walk out of your room to get water while you’re in pajamas – you must change back into a skirt. Spring break is a week of 5 church services a day. You won’t be able to do anything by yourself (as a female) until you’re a senior. You’re required to go to all “fine arts” (concerts and plays) and you’re looked down on if you can’t find a date. If you purposefully or accidentally touch someone of the opposite gender, you will be socialed – followed around by a floorleader and unable to talk to ANYONE of the opposite sex. Generally this lasts for two weeks. If you read the newspaper or magazines in the library, you’ll notice stories and pictures blotted out with big white stickers. If you get a J. Crew catalog in the mail, you’ll be called up to the deans office and warned to open the magazine in your room – and strongly encouraged to stop receiving the catalog, due to the pictures of women in swimsuits. When your parents come to visit you, you’ll have to get written permission from the school to go off with them, and you have to tell the school everywhere you plan to go. With your parents. You won’t be allowed to attend any other churches, only the campus church. When visitors are on campus, YOU must be on campus. So at Thanksgiving, you only get Thanksgiving off, and even then you have multiple required things you have to be at – because God forbid the campus not look full and happy. You’ll be asked to tattle on your friends and fellow students, and if you don’t you will receive demerits. If you don’t take your trash out every day, you’ll receive demerits. If you don’t make your bed every day, you’ll receive demerits. If you get out of your bed after lights out for any reason, you’ll receive demerits.

          I would never recommend this school but I also wouldn’t care if people decided to go. I think it is a very personal decision and certainly some people handle it better than others. I would HIGHLY encourage students and parents to go and visit the school during regular school periods – talk to students, not just the one that’s assigned to you.”

          1. HEADLINE: “JESUS KICKED OUT OF IFB BIBLE COLLEGE”

             You know there is no way JESUS would be allowed in at any of these so-called Christian Colleges. Too much facial hair, a friend of sinners, hangs out with prostitutes, dress code violation-no suit and tie. Of course JESUS would Probably respond the way He always responded to self-righteous, hypocritical pharisees (A party among the Jews that laid great stress upon the observance of rites and ceremonies (rules and regulations that are too heavy and hard to bear):They made a pretence of superior piety (I am holier than you will ever be) and separated themselves from the common people, aka sinners who they are supposed to have love and compassion for)with an in your face “You poisonous snakes, making two-fold children of Hell your converts with your ABC-123 repeat after me, now your saved you see.

             Sorry JESUS, you’ve been blacklisted and don’t let the door hit you on the way out!And quit knocking!

39. Dear IFB Centers of Indoctrination:

    If your philosophy of education and your worldviews are not able to stand up to being questioned then my I suggest that your views are not worth propagating.

    If the god you say you serve is not able to stand against the questions of the world, and the slings and arrows of it’s enemies then I submit that you are worshipping an idol, a god of your imagination who obviously needs your help, your leadership, and your protection. Such a god is not worthy of worship.

    If your religion is so weak that it must isolate and inslulate its followers from any and all outside influence so that blind obedience is the only acceptable behavior… then you have a cult. Obviously then, you are teaching a false gospel in the name of a false god.

    God is not ours to form into our image but we are to be conformed to his image. God is not like us that we must defend him where we percieve he is the weakest. That is merely the projection of our weaknesses upon the god of our imaginations. God is either almighty or he is not worth our time and devotion.

    The Lord comands that we Love God with all our heart, all our strength and all our mind. The ability to think for oneself surpasses the institutional programming of being told only what to think. The actions of the IFB indoctrination centers is that of forcing their followers to think only what the leadership approves of and using biblical prooftexting and voodoo hermeneutics to build a doctrine of works salvation/sanctification and experiential emotionalism.

    I have seen the results of this indoctination and its affect on the body of believers (especially the youth who have been incarcerated under such teachings), it is churchianity cancer, and it is spiritual killer infecting the church body.

    Sincerely,
    Don

    1. Well that about says it all.

    2. *applause*

    3. Thank You Don. When a group or individual feels the need to be so rigid, controlling, paranoid, and absolute. Do they really believe at all?

40. What a shock to hear that the school that insisted that no one be allowed to sue them is suing someone else. 🙄

    What makes this all sort of funny is that, in the end, they are only hurting themselves and their own testimony (more then it already is). Peter Gage has clearly long since moved on with his life, he wasn’t even maintaining the website anymore, and there is plenty of well-deserved bad press about PCC on the internet without the Student Voice website. They can’t get rid of it all.

    PCC was seeking revenge and Peter Gage was the adult in this situation by just giving them the domain name without a fight. Now PCC has another public blemish that they brought upon themselves. They either didn’t think this through, or they were really hoping he would put up a fight. 😆

    1. Pete Gage is 41 and has been out of PCC for over 15 years. The SV has been a dead website for at least 10.

       He simply doesn’t care. Presumably he has a wife and kids. Kids that are probably nearing college age. A job, a house, all of that.

       Most people move on after 10-15 years. Most of the old SV regulars couldn’t care less about PCC any more.

41. If Schaap wasn’t in the pokie, he’d have a field day with all of this. If Hyles were still around, he’d eat this up and so would Al Lacey.

42. 1. A fundy college may not legally be required to allow its students freedom of speech, but if it acts in a way that people don’t like, they will complain about it. Actions have consequences.

    2. I can’t understand why conservative Americans would be so willing to accept a company restricting their constitutional right to free speech, while being the same group who are screaming blue murder if anyone tries to restrict their constitutional right to have as many unregistered weapsons as they want. If the constitution is sacred, then shouldn’t it be sacred?

43. I haven’t heard PCC brought up in the abuse scandals that have been hitting Fundystan lately. Is it because:

    1. They have a better handle on their administration’s behavior?

    2. Abuse, and covering for abusers, is just not as baked in to the culture there, as at HAC (for example)?

    3. They are better at keeping victims quiet?

    1. I attended PCC. I had a friend tell me that she had been approached by a professor. She never turned him in but felt very uncomfortable. The professor was later fired for an affair.

       I had two instances of sexual pressure from my professors. One instance involved suggestive advances from one of the deans when I was receiving advice in his office. I declined but do not feel that my grades were adversely affected.

       I also had a very unpleasant business professor make me extremely uncomfortable in a marketing class. I worked very hard on all projects and always turned them in early, and he refused to give me anything higher than a b. He emailed me some suggestive emails filled with double-meanings, and I printed all emails, attached notes to all projects I had received a low grade on, documented all evens that made me uncomfortale, and made a presentation to the dean of business (who happened to be a woman:). She very kindly listened to me and I believe took appropriate action.

       By the way, the business professor who bothered me had once been the dean of business. He was demoted and the woman took his place. I think I gave her a bit of ammunition on him.

       It is really crazy, with PCC’s strong misogony, that they chose a woman to be the dean of business. But I am very glad they did.

       1. I had a PCA teacher during my internship make me uncomfortable. I regret not telling Dr. Rand because I do believe she and Mr. McBride, who was a principal at the time, would have torn into the guy.

    2. I’m “fairly” familiar with PCC and have never heard a sex abuse story, either. They’ve never given me the heebie jeebies, either. I’d be willing to hazard a guess that *sex* abuse isn’t baked into the culture there.

       It also isn’t quite the male-dominated place that HAC is. Beka Horton was known for calling Jim Schettler, the chaplain, and any other preacher, onto the carpet if she didn’t like his sermon. There were women there that held a lot of power and no real “he men” as far as I could tell.

       1. Ha! That’s the factor I was missing, thanks. Effective female leadership, like the dean of business in Joy’s account… maybe other institutions (Catholic, Fundamentalist, college sports for example) would do well to take note.

          As much as I dislike them, here’s hoping they continue on that path.

    3. Better handle on their admin.? I think so. At least when the Hortons were running things. I’m sure Beka Horton could spot a perv like Jack Schaap before he opened his mouth.

       Covering abuse? Don’t think so. We had our baby in their daycare and were given a letter from Dr. Horton reminding parents of PCC’s obligation to report suspected child abuse and telling us that a spanking that caused bruises was too hard.

       1. “I’m sure Beka Horton could spot a perv like Jack Schaap before he opened his mouth.”

          LOL. If anything, I think, Beka’d be prone to mis-identify and unfairly accuse folk of being pervs than she would be to miss one.

44. I wonder how many former PCC students out there remember how Romans 13 was used (or misused, rather) in the pulpit to insist that resisting the college’s authority was the same as resisting the sword of Caesar? I remember.

45. Gotta love Greg Mutsch (former president of PCC) for getting back at Hyles and HAC on the KJV.

    HAC VS PCC is the greatest college rivalry of all time!!

46. Even though they archives are back online, PCC still “won.” The domain name, http://www.pensacolachristiancollege.com is what they wanted. It’s golden. They know there’s no way to stop dissent, but from an SEO standpoint, owning your own name is huge. Any corporation in America would do what PCC did.

    Most large American churches and para-church organizations operate like corporations. They have professional HR, marketing, PR, and legal staffs. And it shows. Speak against them, even as a member, and you’re likely to find yourself barred from the premises “for security reasons.”

    1. “Most large American churches and para-church organizations operate like corporations. They have professional HR, marketing, PR, and legal staffs. And it shows.”

       Yes. When I had worked at PCC 3 years and was up for my first contract renewal, I was supposed to sign a paper saying I would “wholeheartedly support” all dictates in the staff handbook. I amended the document to read “abide by” since they prohibited a husband and wife holding hands on campus, and I could not “wholeheartedly support” such an inane policy even though I would abide by it. I was pulled from work and called in to see Dr. Mutsch, to be told that I’d sign it as written or else (politely, of course). He stated that that “wholeheartedly support” didn’t actually mean wholehearted support, just obedience….

       In any case, Dr. Mutsch stated that PCC was a *corporation* like FedEx or UPS, and corporations can make whatever arbitrary rules they want and expect them to be followed. I bit my tongue, signed it, and worked there seven or eight more years.

       Of course, they were suddenly a “ministry” and not a “corporation” whenever they wanted to exercise more authority than secular corporations.

47. I’m not so sure that PCC won. It is my opinion that the way they have handled The Student Voice both past and present shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how the world works today…. particularly the power of the Internet. PR is not as predictable as it once was.

    1. That’s a good point.

       I guess I’m looking at it from the standpoint of whether or not to restore the archives. I’m not against that (it’s already been done, anyway) but I don’t see it as some sort of reversal of what has happened. PCC got their domain name back.

       Whether it’s worth the cost of being in the news, I don’t know. I’d guess in the long run it’s not going to hurt them that badly. Their overall pattern of behavior, yes, but this specific incident? I’m not sure.

48. BTW, I was one who went to PCC with eyes wide open. I understood that it was unaccredited, and I very much wanted to teach (and still do) in a Christian school. I was a floor leader for 3 years. I will say that I was blessed with an amazingly wonderful dorm supervisor. I began questioning the academic validity of a beka books, however, as I was preparing for accreditation at the school I was teaching in. Ironically enough, I thought back to the insistence I heard from my alma mater to “teach students to think”. It slowly and painfully dawned on me that I was not prepared to properly prepare academic documentation for the work I was doing. I had received precious little training in writing my own lesson plans. I also began to realize that several good, Christian institutions had little respect for my diploma. In trying to keep this post on more professional issues, I will say that I did receive valuable training in time management. My views on dealing with students and parents has changed drastically, however, as I have changed my focus from maintaining good discipline to humbly meeting the needs of my students. Just some thoughts to the idea that criticism of PCC comes from disgruntled (shipped) folks. The Lord has been gracious in my life, and He has provided me with many fulfilling opportunities,….. but it has, at times, been in spite of my diploma rather that because of it.

    1. ACCREDIDATION

       IFB’s will tell you accredidation is for reprobates and worldly Christians who want to make a real living and don’t want to be spiritual and live below the poverty line for JESUS. Found out my wife’s teaching degree wasn’t worth the paper it was printed on. She paid like $24,000 for a degree she can’t use. She can only be a teacher’s aide and get paid like a $1,000 dollars a month. If she had a legitimate teaching degree she could be making $3,500 to $4,500 a month. If you want to be a TEACHER I highly recommend you do not go to an unaccredited college ever. Even many Christian schools are not accepting teachers with an unaccredited degree. Don’t waste your time and money at one of these self-righteous schools of lower learning.

49. >Just some thoughts to the idea that criticism of PCC comes from disgruntled (shipped) folks.

    That’s the thing. Most of PCC’s more vocal critiques were never “shipped” and were not “rebels.” Among the critics are pastors and missionaries.

    But even if they were shipped– what does that matter? One can be shipped for something incredibly minor. A girl can get caught kissing her boyfriend in the library stacks and get kicked out for “sexual impropriety.”

    Try to get into another college or a job with that on your record.

    1. Agreed. No knock intended to those who were “shipped”. I graduated with no major “dings” on my record, but I have to admit, I was very “stressed” that I would get “social led” or something equally as traumatic despite being a very conscientious young lady.

    2. The thing is; at this place one was wholly subjected to the whim of the administration and their hand selected student tattle-bearers. I am NOT exaggerating here: I knew people who had little to zero demerits and were “shipped” because the administration determined that they didn’t “have the spirit of PCC”. At the time the administration called them “counter culture”. This was the mid 90s so the administration was about a decade behind in their nomenclature and since the pop culture “grunge” movement had brought plaid and patch pockets back in style they thought this was some form of “rebellion” against khaki.
       On the opposite side of the spectrum I knew people who would literally go get drunk at the beach on the weekend and never got a demerit and graduated no problems.
       The administration at the school when I was there was corrupt and bumbling. Led by an immature man who had a short fuse – dr. mutche. I personally experienced his idiocy and as an adult now looking back at how he conducted himself: I cannot believe I subjected myself to this place. Religion can brain wash a man like nothing else.

       1. I came to PCC from a state university. I recognized very quickly that one could get by with a great deal there simply by being a good liar. I never did that but could have. The key would be to trust no one.

          I received the little foxes letter 5 times in 8 semesters, twice in a row my last year. To my knowledge I never really did anything that bad. But as you said, there were people getting drunk at the beach not only one the weekend but during the weekday. There were people doing drugs and couples who lived together off campus and they’d get the good boy or good girl letter every semester.

          It was absolutely a game.

          1. EC – you are spot on! It was a “game”. I never did anything “immoral” or “unlawful” or “unbiblical” but I always had tons of demerits. The problem is PCC conflates their institutional rules with being some fundamentalist form of biblical morality. They then are free to make changes on-the-fly because they control the mores that the system is all chained to.
             As a student at pcc with a level of critical thinking one comes to the realization quickly that you are being treated as an adult in responsibility and a child in privilege. A demerit system in place for adults??? really? How juvenile. It came to the point where I spent demerits like money: I had a fresh bank account every semester and I couldn’t spend 75 in two consecutive semesters.
             You are right about the being a good liar part. I do not lie and I never did while I was at PCC and I paid with demerits and having to deal with the foolishness of the administration. At the same time knowing roommates of mine were off having fun and blowing off steam at clubs and bars and going wherever they wanted doing whatever they wanted. 🙄

50. Way to practice what you preach, PCC..

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