155 thoughts on “Sunday’s Comin’”

    1. Dear Danny:

      As in ‘First Church?”

      Christian Socialist

      PS: Sorry about that … I couldn’t let it pass. 😀

  3. The old fashioned, sin hating, kjv, buses in the parking lot kind. Its the only place you will be comfortable in right?

  4. Remember, you have to find the church that is the ONLY church in Central Florida that preaches the Gospel.

    I’m sure there are at least 8 of them. 😉

  5. Hmm. So many choices, so little truth/grace/what have you. It’s been many years since I set foot in a Baptist church–I used to think that the “First” Baptist church in a town was probably the least fundy, due to a likely affiliation with the SBC, but in more recent years the SBC has become more difficult to distinguish from regular old crazy-fundy.

    Hard to say then, Darrell. Maybe start with ‘A’ and work your way through the alphabet?

    1. The A church isn’t good for the following reasons:
      1) – its SBC
      2) – they are not KJV only
      3) – their pastor actually earned his PhD!

      1. I think it’s safe to rule out the one named Grace too. UNLESS that’s intended as an ironic name.

        1. Ahh but how very wrong you are. Anyone who ever said there is no irony in the IFB never attended a fundie church called “Grace.” Check out their website. It’s pretty amazing.

        3. Oy! I didn’t check the website for irony! Definitely is named with tongue firmly planted in cheek. I particularly like that the Bibliology denies any “admixture” in the text of scripture. I’ve never seen that before, and am not sure what on earth an “admixture” is. I’m guessing they are saying Pomwonderful did not sponsor the book of Jude?

          Also since when was a good IFB church willing to admit the Bible was temporal?

          We believe the Holy Bible was written by men supernaturally inspired; that it has truth for its matter without any admixture of error; that it is and shall remain to the end of the age

          .

          First time I’ve seen an IFB not using “Forever O LORD, your word is established in Heaven” to say the the Bible is eternally existent.

        4. *My best friend went to Grace Baptist Temple during HS, and she and I visited there went we took a trip to Tampa a few years ago. It is definitely FUNDY! There were times during the service I wanted to roll my eyes and set the pastor straight on what the concept of grace actually is.
          *It also amuses me that the abbreviation for this church is GBT… The only thing missing is the L.

    1. Oh, I do miss Advent services. Unfortunately, even most of the UMCs around here are a little too fundy-leaning for me. We light Advent candles at home, more to help mark the time until Christmas for the kids than for religious reasons. But I do think we’ll pop in at the local Episcopalian church for Christmas Eve services. The rituals really are so beautiful and I want the kids to understand the meaning behind this time of year, even if we don’t adhere to a specific belief system.

      Anyway, good luck with your church explorations, Darrell. I look forward to reading about your adventures.

      1. That was a surprise to me when I figured out the UM churches in the south were a lot like the baptist church. It was always interesting when I would go to conferences and the big southern churches would do talk about stuff that the did and I would think “that won’t fly in the Midwest of Northeast churches.

        I also love the rituals of Advent. Was reading over at Online Baptist and someone posted about an advent devotional that they read and it was if they quoted the Satanic Bible.

        2. Yes, I was warned when we moved north that Methodists up north aren’t real Christians like most are down south. Methodists were almost acceptable in Georgia.

        4. “Was reading over at Online Baptist and someone posted about an advent devotional that they read and it was if they quoted the Satanic Bible.”

          There’s a whole lot more Scriptural basis for Advent devotionals than for Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. :mrgreen:

        5. Okay, why are Advent services considered to be so evil. I know, the real answer is “because a Baptist preacher has not so far claimed credit for inventing one.” But what’s the stated rationale?

          For those who haven’t been to one, here’s a bit of irony for you: Those End-Times-obsessed, prophecy-dicing, sin-sniffing people are condemning services at which we reread all of the parts of the Bible that deal with the Fall, prophecies of the Messiah, and the Last Days.

    2. The UMC is a large denomination. It includes everything from super-Fundy legalists to Charismatics to ultra-radical Social Gospel and Liberation Theology followers.

      On the average, it’s moderate to liberal theologically and moderate to conservative politically. Dick Cheney, George W. Bush, the late George McGovern, and Hillary Clinton are all United Methodists (just to give you an idea of the range covered).

  10. You go on and laugh Darrell but you might just walk that aisle again if you go visiting.

    1. Oooh good idea! Darrell should make an effort to visit every fundy church and get a picture of him walking the aisle! It could be like a Where’s Waldo thing!

  11. You could visit a different one each week. That should provide good fodder for SFL. Of course, if you are looking for a church that will be of benefit to you, then you’d be better off staying as far away from those as you can. 😛

    1. I was going to suggest something similar. Call and interview pastors and record or transcript the interview for SFL.

      1. OK, this is really weird, but…several years ago someone sent me a link to these YouTube videos created / posted by some transvestite guy (forget his/her name). Each weak Mr./Ms. Tranny went to a different church and then related (on camera) what he’d experienced there. It was hilarious, in an utterly warped way. My favorite was the Methodist church, about which the transvestite guy remarked that the ladies there were so nice; they kept trying to give him covered dishes to take home. His summary of Methodist theology was amazingly incisive, too, as I recall.

        OK, so I have a weird and warped sense of humor. What do you expect from a Catholic? 😉

    2. Our now-defunct independent news publication used to do something like this. They had a series entitled “Houses of the Holy”. The editors would send out their “prophets” to visit a different church each week, and would write up their “Ten Pronouncements” about that church (usually dealing with size of church, architecture, general theology, music, and how warmly they were received as visitors.)

      You could do something like that.

      1. When I was finishing my degree, one of the required classes was a religion class which happened to be taught by a Lutheran pastor. One of our assignments was to go to a church (one different from the one we normally attended, if applicable) and write a paper on “who is Jesus, based on the service you attended.”

        Given that I was still buried deep in fundy-ism at the time, the process was quite eye-opening for me. 😎

      2. “Houses of the Holy” – Hey, that is the name of a Led Zeppelin album. What better name for a fundy story? LOL! :mrgreen:

      1. I hadn’t seen that one, but it is similar. I’m sure it wasn’t an original concept with our local news rag. I think John Grisham included something similar in one of his novels.

  12. Wait until Saturday, and see which one wants to take your kids on the big yellow church bus. Then you’ll know who’s on fire for the Lord.

    1. Yes. I hope that you’re living in an apartment. Because if you are, they should be along shortly (either Thursday night or Saturday morning).

  13. Grace Baptist of Brandon, Faith Baptist of Wesley Chapel, and Southside Baptist of Tampa are great examples of the IFB. Not just saying that because someone said it, but saying it because I have experienced them first-hand!

      1. Okay, Dr. Fundie Satan! I KNEW that was who you really were. Praise God for revealing your TRUE COLORS in these LAST DAYS. You have put the Devil’s music in my ears and now I must skip lunch so I can fast and pray that the African demons will remove themselves from my ear canals.

  14. A family member goes to Providence Baptist Church there in Brandon. Its a pretty conservative church. Traditional music and the Pastor is a former PCC graduate (David Goforth, I think). Every time I’ve been there, I didn’t get the IFB vibe, but its been ages since I’ve been.

  15. Also need to find a church that has services during hurricanes!
    It’s important to follow the letter of the law.

    1. I’ve told this story before, but that was how “Evangelist” Dave Young proved his cajones. As a student at the PCC preaching competition (I know, pathetic, isn’t it?), he won because he kept preaching even when the power went out due to a massive storm.

    2. That makes me shudder. My last religious social club held services during a hurricane/tropical storm. Half the town was flooded, but by golly, they had church.

    3. The pastor at the church I worked at wouldn’t cancel church for a blizzard. She lived across the parking lot – so had no problem getting there. I even had to have Chrisas program when there was a blizzard, then got the “we are disappointed in the low turn out”. Don’t miss that crap at all.

  17. Don’t go unless you’re willing to make a scene. You know, bringing the “wrong” Bible, “allowing” your helpmeat to wear trousers, keeping your kids with you in the services, raising your hands during the song service, and lastly, but most importantly, being willing to walk out if/when you hear heresy from the pulpit.

    Then blog about it. 🙂

    1. One of my most cherished post-IFB dreams is to attend a service, act just like you described, and LOUDLY stomp out at the first whiff of heresy.

      But for my wife’s strenuous objections to this idea, I’d have already done it 😉

  18. Lol there’s one right up the street from our house. We visited only a couple times and the very first time we walked in one of the deacons introduced himself and bragged about being a “good ole fashioned Independent Fundamental Baptist”.

    We knew what they were all about from the moment we stepped in and after the 3rd visit knew that was enough of that. 🙄

    Good luck. Many of the churches down here (IFB) are PCC related somehow. I have yet to find the Hyles types although I’m sure they’re around here somewhere.

  19. I think you should consult the directories published by The Sword of the Lord or David Cloud to find your new church home. That way you can be sure the church has been evaluated by veteran liberalism hunters.

    1. I wasn’t aware that there were any churches left that could claim the Dave Cloud seal of approval.

  20. This is a great non-fundy church in the New Tampa area (http://gracetampa.com/). I know pastor Henderson quite well. While he did graduate from BJU, he has left that circle a long time ago, and may not even have the school listed on the church site anymore. If you are looking for a more reformed church, with good music, preaching and discipleship, this is a great place.

  21. Just pick one, it won’t matter which one because you are gonna find all kind of fault with it. That’s all you know how to do.

    2. I dunno. I think he’s a good writer with a subtle sense of humor and an ability to use apt Biblical allusions. 😉

      1. But FORTRAN is such a useful skill these days…

        *grumble, grumble, five freakin’ years of classes, grumble, grumble*

  22. Whatever you do do not tell them that you “are looking for a place to get plugged in”. That phrase will blow your cover and you may be shot as a SBC spy.

    2. Yes, also do not say: “As soon as we walked in, we knew we were home.” Also: “We could really sense the Spirit’s presence here today.”

  23. Seriously, I think I’d visit Centerpoint Church.

    From their website:

    “Due to his vision for the local church and his passion for the Gospel, he increasingly questioned the roles of many local churches, which acted more like obstacles to the Gospel, than vehicles. Churches tended to transform into comfortable social clubs focusing exclusively on those who are ‘in’ with no real passion for their community and those ‘outside’.

    “Bryant’s vision [was] to create a church that was ‘an alternative to church as usual’ by removing all of the unnecessary distractions that keep people away.”

    Their beliefs line up with mine (in other words, they’re “fundamental” as to God, sin, salvation, etc.), but they’ve discarded those man-made rules that are so precious to the IFB.

      1. Yeah, that can be misleading though. Look at Grace Baptist Temple’s web site – from appearance alone, it would appear to be an E-free or non-denominational church…

  25. If you’re looking for SFL material, I’d check out Grace Baptist Temple or Victory Baptist Church, both of which seem to be sin-hatin’, aisle-walkin’, pre-trib Rapture believin’, 10% tithin’, anti-gay, anti-evolution, anti-expressions-of-affection-between-unmarried couples, complementarian folks.

    If you’re looking for a place to find the Gospel, not so much.

    1. I was going to say Grace trumps Victory here, but as I dig deeper into the websights, I think they really are equally bad.

  26. LOL. I went to Florida College (next to the golf course in Temple Terrace), which is unofficially a Church of Christ school. It’s unofficial because of how cagey COC-ers are about how church funds are spent. Some of us used to go to a tiny little COC in Riverview. The preacher was a young father and just about everyone else had lived there their entire lives. And then a couple of people started coming from the mental hospital a few blocks away. 😯 It was quite a place. Glad I have enough perspective between then and now to actually almost enjoy the trip down memory lane.

  27. Darrell, you’re looking in the wrong place. A true Christian would drive at least two hours in one direction to find the one last truly Bible-believing church.

    2. That’s what I’m doing wrong; I live close to a good church — guess I’ll have to move a couple of hours away to get braggin’ rights!

      😉

  29. The following scene will take place within the next month, as soon as Darrell gets his electricity turned on and the IFB lady that works for the power company (yeah, I know she works outside the home, but she only does it because her husband left her because she didn’t submit to him enough but bless god she still gives her tithe every week and some of you men need to think about that) gives the list of new addresses to her pastor. (Which counts as her having won all those souls, by the way. But don’t worry, the pastor will get to claim them too.)

    9:30 AM, Saturday morning.

    *Knock, knock*

    *Darrell opens the door.*

    Two men in suits carrying KJVs: “Hello, we are from Grace Baptist Temple iCare outreach [isn’t that the most trendiest soulwinning name EVER?] and we understand you are new to the area.”

    Darrell: “Uh, yes.”

    TMISCKJVs: “Friend, can I ask you a question? If you died tonight do you know where you will spend eternity?”

    Darrell: “Uh, yes.” [This counts as a soul won, beacuse it is possible that between being asked the question and saying “yes” that Darrell had gotten saved on the spot.]

    TMISCKJVs: “Oh, well have you found a church home?”

    Darrell: “Not yet.” [Darrell is now a “prospect.” Brief consideration is given to his potential as a steady tither. He is white and isn’t living in the bad part of town, so he passes the smell test.]

    TMISCKJVs: “Well, brother, we’d like to invite you to join us at Grace Baptist Temple. We are an independent, fundamental, automonous, indigenous, pre-millennial, pre-tribulational, King James only, traditional marriage . . . [pauses for breath].”

    Darrell: “Well, that really isn’t the kind of church I am looking for.”

    TMISCKJVs: “But, I thought you said you were saved?”

    Darrell: “I did say that.”

    TMISCKJVs: “Friend, could I just take some time to show you how to be BIBLE saved?”

    Darrell: “No, thank you.” *starts to close the door*

    TMISCKJVs: *sticks foot in the door* “But do you want to die in your tresspasses and sins?”

    Darrell: “No.”

    TMISCKJVs: “Friend, there is water that you will never thirst again if you ask Jesus into your heart. Don’t you want me to sit down with you and show you from an old-fashioned King James Bible how you can know that you know that you know that you belong to Him? Don’t you want to give your heart to Jesus?”

    Darrell: “No, thank you, I am a Christian.”

    TMISCKJVs: “But, when you die and go to heaven, God will not ask you whether you are a Christian. He will say, Were you a BAPTIST!?!?”

    Darrell: “Well, I was once but I am not a Baptist anymore.”

    TMISCKJVs: “Well, we will pray for you. Here is a chick tract called ‘Eaten by Worms’ that tells the message of God’s great love and salvation for you. if you want to talk to our pastor, you can call the number on the back. If you get saved, you need to follow the Lord in believer’s Baptism and give your tithe to a local New Testament church.”

    Darrell: “Thanks for stopping by.” *closes the door and carefully buries the tract deep in the trash so his daughter won’t be traumatized by it . . . but only after he scans it to post on SFL*

    TMISCKJVs: *think to themselves about the passage where Jesus said to knock the dust off your feet but neither of them wants to do it in front of the other one because they aren’t sure if that is one of the commands of Christ that IFBelievers still obey in these last days*

    Conversation in the car will consist of teasing apart the following IFB chestnut: If you cannot lose your salvation, how is it possible that someone who is saved could ever leave the Baptist church? The correct answer is: Because he was never saved in the first place. But even though it is a conversation that has been had forty-seven times before, it will still give rise to about thirty minutes of conversation, IFBelievers not fearing to cover the same ground over and over again in their quest to display their allegiance to Correct Doctrine and the Fundamentals of the Faith.

    3. “He’s white and doesn’t live in the bad part of town, so he passes the smell test.” :mrgreen:

    6. Oh my gosh. That was hilarious. The “Eaten by Worms” Chick tract was priceless. Deacon’s Son, you have a gift!

  30. Go to a normal church and compare? Maybe this is just me, but I’d love to take a day or two off of picking on fundies and talk about how some of us ex-fudies are fitting into a normal, healthy church. Even after how much we’ve been burnt before.

  31. I remember sitting in a service many years ago in which one of the “big names” was preaching. Hutson, Hyles, don’t remember. He actually preached against moving, taking a job in another town, etc., if you were currently going to a “good” church. After all, it’s easier to find a new job than it is a good, old-fashioned, fundamental, KJV church. I was a kid at the time, but this really struck me as strange.

    Still, Darrell, maybe you should have thought about finding a church before you moved? Can’t serve God and mammon, you know… 😈

    1. Our Pastor frequently states that if you move for a job without having a good church to go to that you are probably moving for the wrong reasons. Providing for your family’s needs apparently should be very low on your list of priorities. 🙄

      1. Yeah, that really makes sense in an economy where jobs are hard to find. Stay put in that local church, even when you can’t find work and the bills pile up. Oh, and don’t forget to keep tithing. 🙄

      2. …seems a bit hypocritical for someone to get up and preach about knowing what’s best for you and your family when what they are really worried about is whether your moving will affect the weekly offering and their own paycheck. grrrrrrrrrr

    3. When my husband and I announced that we were moving from DC to FL (we were moving to be closer to family, both our families live in the southeast) our former pastor told us that he really preferred for us to find a new church to attend in FL and become members BEFORE we moved… ❓ We hadn’t even found a new apartment yet! I think he was worried about us dying in between the time we weren’t church members and therefore not being part of the Bride of Christ (because you know only members of a local Baptist church will be counted as the Bride of Christ, all those other Christians will just be guests at the wedding) or something crazy like that. 🙄 We were already on our way of the IFB at that point and that kinda sealed the deal.

        1. Had to look that one up. “Stayed” is the correct word in this case, but now I know the meaning of “staid” 😛

    4. This same drivel was pushed upon the sheep at a fundy church I once attended. I remember some friends who had landed a much better paying job but required him to move his family out of state. Where they were at, they were barely scraping by as the local economy was tanking. What did the “pastor” do?? Give them this crap about how you dont move unless you are moving to another fundy church, etc. Ridic.

    5. I remember my pastor, the BJU grad, who was relatively moderate and reasonable as BJU grads go, saying that if you were considering a job that would require moving to a new area, you should check out the churches in the area first. If you can’t find a good church in the area, maybe you shouldn’t take the job. Because that’s JUST how they did it in the New Testament.

    6. Wow. Our lukewarm worldly spit-it-out Episcopal church makes a point of giving departing members the address and phone number of the Episcopal church nearest their new home, and if there isn’t one they’ll depart on the ferry with a list of local Anglican, Lutheran, and/or Methodist congregations in hopes that one will be a good fit. But that’s where it ends. Telling people where to live–?!

  32. Go worship at that Raymond James Stadium place. They only meet 10 Sundays a year, and as a bonus, a visiting evangelist team from Philadelphia is coming this Sunday.

    Seriously, best wishes on your search.

  35. Find the nearest Unitarian-Universalist Fellowship and go there.

    Then write about it enthusiastically here and watch all the Fundy lurkers’ heads explode.

  36. Wow, after looking at about a dozen of the churches that had websites, I don’t even know where I’d go…

    It seems to me that most of the churches are far too large for my liking. I prefer a church where the attendance is no more than 100 or so. I just find that’s a good size where you’re still able to get to know everyone, and enjoy a real sense of community.

    Bible Baptist of Seffner looked about that size, but their homepage plays “I’ll Fly Away” continuously on repeat, and that song has just sort of always screamed “shallow theology” to me.

    If I were you I’d probably end up doing as much research on the churches without websites as I could, and maybe make a few phone calls to find out more.

    I went through something similar about a year ago, and I ended up e-mailing several churches to find out more. I didn’t get many replies, but I did get one where the pastor recognized that his church probably wasn’t what I was looking for and offered to recommend a different church he thought I might enjoy.

    In the end I found a church that is so amazing I never would have believed it could have existed. So hold out hope.

    Out of curiosity, Darrell, do you have a list of “must haves” or some kind of “checklist” in your mind?

    I don’t envy your position, and I wish you all the best in your search.

  37. You are in the lions den of fundystan, Darell! Florida is such a mixed bag of demography, ethnicity, everything really! I mean, you are in the ‘heartland” of your Alma Matter, ruckman cult, all those KJV only cults like James Knox… There are plenty of HAC influenced “churches” and cult leaders… er uh “pastors” in Florida….
    I predict that your level of “inspiration” for SFL will grow exponentially over the next few months. 😆

  40. Darrell, if you were catholic you would not have this problem. And my personal opinion is you would make an excellant catholic!!

    BTW, good luck.

  41. You all do realize Jesus Christ was not born in December? Christmas was actually set up by the Roman Catholic Church to try to convert the Druids who celebrated their god in December. If you go by Zacharias’ Course of Abia, John the Baptist would have been conceived towards the end of June. Six months later would have been December when the angel Gabriel visited Mary. Nine months later would be September. Also, just a note: Yom Kippur is in September, usually towards the end of the month. I am not saying that Jesus was born on Yom Kippur, but Yom Kippur is the most holy day for the Jews.

    Christmas in December was never holy nor God glorifying. How can it be when first, we are not celebrating Jesus’ birth in the right month; 2nd, we are sharing the celebration with the Druids pagan god named the Christmas Tree. God says He is a jealous God and does not intend to share our love and time with a false god. By the way, God has some words for us concerning the false god called Christmas Tree in Jeremiah 10: 1-10 KJV. Furthermore Christmas in December can never be God glorifying when we also expect Jesus to share this time with Santa Clause, the Grinch, Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer and his other 8 reindeer friends, elves, “Grandma Got Runover By A Reindeer” and “other” hideous songs, mistletoe, drunkeness, secular parties that make no mention of God nor Jesus Christ unless it is as a curse word.

    We claim that we are Christians and love God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit, but all our actions, including celebrating Christmas in December tell differently. God was right in the Holy Bible when He said that we know how to do evil, but to do good, we know not. He also said that our lips praise Him while our heart is far from Him.

    Would it not be wonderful and most importantly, God glorifying if we Christians were to develop a backbone for God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit and celebrate Jesus birth in September AND NEVER SHARING HIS GLORY WITH ANOTHER !!!!!

    I know……. I am asking too much from Christians.

      1. If my Lord and Saviour was called Beelzebub by all those He came to give life to if they would only accept, how much more for those same people who continue to reject Him to call me crazy for having a backbone for Him?

        1. Sorry. You are conflating “having a backbone for Him” with sticking to your own personal formed beliefs and prefered traditions. Do you attend “church” on Sunday ever? Sunday is not the official sabbath!!! Get my point?

        2. Hey! It’s not my words, it’s Gods words. Maybe if you would open up the Holy Bible and read Gods Word everyday, you would not be so ignorant to the Truth.

    2. Really? Here I thought we were celebrating the birth of Mithras, Light of the World, born from a rock on December 25, and extremely popular with Roman soldiers in the lst to 4th centuries AD. He and his rituals were related to but not identical with the Persian god Mithra. No doubt replacing devotions to Mithras in December with those to Jesus seemed like a good idea at the time.

      1. I hope YOU don’t expect Mithras to get you into heaven. You will be screaming down in hell for Mithras to help you till your blue in the face because Mithras does not exist and God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit do exist, and they are not mocked.

        1. Personally, I’m counting on Zarathustra. Me and the big Z, we’re pretty tight. He’ll come through for me.

    3. Meh. I think plenty of us know that Jesus wasn’t really born in December. ‘Part from anything else, only a really STUPID shepherd would be keeping his flocks out in the open field that time of year.

      On the other hand, remember that the people who made this decision were based in Europe and they had a perfectly practical reason for hijacking the pagan midwinter festivals instead of abolishing them. Round our way it is freezing cold and miserably dark in December. If we don’t have a gratuitous excuse for a good party in the middle of it we’d never survive. 😛

      1. I think the apostle Paul said something about observing days or not observing days being not all that important. So, December, September, or any other month or day really doesn’t matter.

        1. I do not know what you mean by “Poe”, but I am sure one of you will have no problems telling me. But it still does not change the fact that God is not mocked by any of you.

    5. The case for Jesus having an actual December birthday are weaker than him being born in the fall (Sukkot, not Yom Kippur, AFAICT). This much is true. The question of the shepherds gets rehashed every year; a Messianic site pointed out that the sheep kept for ritual sacrifice were kept outside year-round and were in the keeping of Levitical shepherds. Perhaps these keepers of the sacrificial lambs were the shepherds. Since there are two courses of Abijah/Abia per year, the guesswork based on Zechariah’s story in Luke is inconclusive. Since early Church fathers (including Hippolytus and John Chrystotom) argued for a December date and neither branch of the Orthodox Church serious disputed this view, it’s hard to see how you maintain that certainty. Interestingly, there’s some apparent support from an extant Aramaic Jewish source, The Scroll of Fasts, which may indicate Yeshua’s birth.
      Your reason for moving the date, the attempted conversion of the Druids, is unconvincing. The Druids were not a people but a profession, whose exact nature is still up for debate. The Church dealt with Druids mainly in Ireland in the 5th C AD, long after the celebration had been recorded in the Mediterranean area. The story that the Church established Christmas near the date of Saturnalia is more convincing, but still isn’t certain. Saturnalia changed a great deal between the Republican period and the end of the Empire.
      But all this misses the point; Christmas, Christ-Mass, is a celebration of the Christian year, and has more to do with celebrating the life of Christ than His birthday.
      The Christmas tree is of course a favorite target of scorn, due to massive ignorance of the origins of the custom. It is NOT an ancient practice – the earliest trees in homes come from Livonia and North Germany in the 16th century – squarely in the not-very-pagan Renaissance. They probably derive from the “Tree of Paradise” which was set up as part of the December mystery plays which were performed on Dec 24th, the name day of Adam and Eve. That evergreen branches were used by pagan and Jewish people to symbolize eternal life is probably true, but the tree worship which people point to is the worship of LIVING TREES IN NATURE. To cut down such a tree was an affront to Yggdrasil and the pagan gods.
      Your main point, that Jesus’s birthday be celebrated shorn of all other influences, is not realistic. It’s certainly true that every feast and celebration that Christians has been misused – in Paul’s letters he makes it clear that te very Lord’s Supper bacame a mockery. Why then do we celebrate Communion? Because we do indeed honor God by doing so. Setting yourself up as an arbiter of what is Godly against millions throughout history is pretty arrogant. If you cannot stand Christmas, by all means celebrate it not. But stop hanging about being an elder brother about the whole thing. That’s useless.
      Of course, if you’re a Poe, got me good. But it was worth saying anyway.

      1. Ye shall soon find out when you come face to face with God, then what defense are you going to have to explain away your mockery of HIM?

        2. Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
          ————————1 Corinthians 3:18

          Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2 Thessalonians 2:3

          How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

          Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

          Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
          But ye have set at not all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

          I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

          When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.

          Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

          For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord:

          They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

          Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

          For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

          But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.
          ———————–Proverbs 1:22-33

          My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.

          If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:

          Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:

          We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:

          Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:

          My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:
          ———————–Proverbs 1:10-15

          For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

          But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the LORD is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible.

          Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness is it! and ye have snuffed at it, saith the LORD of hosts; and ye brought that which was torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith the LORD.
          ———————–Malachi 1:11-13

          To turn aside the right of a man before the face of the most High,

          To subvert a man in his cause, the Lord approveth not.
          —————–Lamentations 3:35-56

          For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
          ————————Ephesians 6:12

          Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.

          If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

          If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

          Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

          If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

  43. New job, new home, new state. Might as well go all the way and try out a Lutheran church. You’re never going to have a better opportunity. Just sayin’.

  44. I can definitely tell you to stay away from Faith Baptist Church. You can listen to the good reverend’s sermonettes on their website. The guys is horrible. He stopped posting them around May when I called him out on his BS. I was stuck in that cult for years. So glad I’m free!

    Bell Shoals is huge, but decent if you like contemporary worship and a large congregation. My parents go there.

    Providence Baptist is BJU fundy. I went to school there from K-5 through 6th grade. They recently decided that women who wear pants are not going to hell. They are big on telling women to keep their mouths shut and stay at home. Working women are sub-par citizens at that place unless you work at their christian school.

    I have no help for you on actual good churches to attend.

  45. My recommendation is to not visit any of the fundamentalist churches, but find the nearest Catholic church and pay them a visit. There is a good chance that they will be having their annual RCIA meetings and would be happy to meet with you (RCIA stands for Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults).

    1. Nativity Catholic Church on East Brandon Blvd has RCIA on Wednesday evening and Bible study on Thursday evening.

  46. Bell Shoals, Corner Stone and Idlewild (in Lutz, close to Lake Magdeline) are all good churches.

  49. Are there any non-denominational churches? Bible churches? Evangelical Free? I don’t think I’d start with Baptist.

  50. Cant recommend a church there, but make sure to check out the East County parks, esp. Lithia Springs and Alderman’s Ford.

    Lithia is a clean spring fed swimming hole right next to the Alafia River, and Alderman’s is a really nice several mile paved bike path along the same river.

    Nice area if you can find the hidden gems away from all the new houses.

Comments are closed.