Odds and Ends

E-mails From Fundies: Jason Edition

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I never cease to wonder why people at the same time claim that

1) I am not talking about their brand of fundamentalism because THEIR church/pastor/camp/choir/bus ministry/church dungeon is NORMAL.

AND

2) They’re upset at me for making fun of crazy fundamentalism (that again they aren’t actually a part of in any way, shape, fashion, or form).

So if I’m not goring your ox then when all the crying? There’s something very strange there. Perhaps it’s just that they really, really don’t want to have to take “Independent Fundamental Baptist” off their church sign to keep from being associated with the crazies. If that’s the case then that ship has long since sailed, my friend.

Case in point is this creatively spelled e-mail from “Jason”

I came across your website about 6 months ago. I attend an IFB church.
I have been there since 13. Our church is not perfect but we have not
experienced the stupidity that you write about. Our Pastor doesn’t
preach his opinions, doesn’t degrade women, use the pulpit as a
whipping post etc. In fact we don’t do much anymore with other IFB
churches. I think that there is an arrogance about men yelling that
they are ifb’s. I stick with Christian. Baptist history is so rich but
what happens when the name begins to take on a different meaning. I
guess what I am saying is that I follow the Bible. I see the nonsense
but I was curious about who you are. I’m not a fan David Cloud but I
am not a fan of you neither. All I am saying is that your not helping
Christianity by your “humor.” I’ll be honest and say that if you put a
microscope over my life you would find alot of imperfection. I see no
credibility in what you do. Your site just adds to confusion as you
sew discord and write about foolishness.

(Jason)

Thank you for that note, Jason. I’ll try to take it easy on sewing discord. Perhaps I’ll take a turn at doing macrame with discord instead.

79 thoughts on “E-mails From Fundies: Jason Edition”

  4. It would appear that you “sew discord” when you needle the fundies. This should be an interesting thread.

      1. Sew it would seam. There does appear to be a pattern, does there knot?

        And speaking of patterns, the emailer falls back on that threadbare pattern of fundies to humbly (ahem) admit they are imperfect. Then they scissor opportunity to point out that the emailee is also flawed. This tack only makes their argument unravel. We who are in Christ are fully aware that we cannot selvedge the wrecks of our own lives. We all have history; we have bias baste upon our past. It is sad that they resort to cutting remarks. It is a shame that we cannot be “knit together in love” as Paul desired for the early church in Colossians 2:2.

    1. I think the main point of “Stuff Fundies Like” is to write about foolishness.
      If you don’t think people should write about foolishness, or don’t enjoy reading about foolishness, there are lots of other Internet sites.

      1. Just want to keep this thought always in that sick little bulbous head of yours Massive “G”…….you would never try these insults face to face… Armchair Cowards you are (spoken in Yoda’s voice). That’s why I come back….. Just to remind you that your leftist type can dream of hurting strong men….but honestly…. Face to face…. Cowards….hey… Calvin’s Cowards!! ….I like that 😎

        1. Mighty brave of you, coming back a week later (by which time nobody’s looking) to call me names.

          All I’ll say is if you knew some of the things I’ve said to powerful people (some of them armed at the time), you’d be quaking in your training pants.

  8. Oh gosh Darrell…. Don’t you ever stop posting! We, who have survived and elevated out of Fundamentalism know the absolute truths to your words and can find a place here to come to and receive and give empathy and encouragement to know God and His mercies.

    Many times I do not have time to comment but reading always steers me into clearer thinking!

    For instance, my opening phrase “Oh gosh” I almost deleted because “that is a euphemism for using God’s name in vain! Shame on you!” As I was badgered about but if you ask me, it’s no biggie and that’s why reading everyone’s words here are always a nice “surge” toward the truth of the matters!

    Like I said, “Never Stop Darrell!” Hopefully guys like Jason will come to their senses soon!

    ~~~Heart

    1. I second that. He may think you are not helping Christianity (Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle….Pot eyes Kettle suspiciously) but IKFDS that this site has helped me. Thanks, Darrell. Been dropping by off and on since ’07. Still in Fundy church, long story.

      p.s. – finally got gravatar thingy.

    2. “Oh Gosh”?? My old high school principal at my Fundy high school (long story) said he would never eat at the Golly Gee, a local hamburger stand for that very reason. FWIW, it wasn’t very good anyway and closed years ago, but I still feel guilty about even saying “Gee” 35 years later. 🙄

      2. Oh dear. Well, I suppose they had better stay out of my studio when I’m working. I learned to curse in a sewing shop, from a woman raised with five brothers in Chicago. My, could she let fly! Let me make a mistake on a contract piece with $200/yd fabric, your hear me curse too!

        *However*, I have something of a different take on what it means to take someone’s name in vain. Using God’s name to ‘legitimize’ something you’re doing- that’s taking His name in vain.Saying that such and such is God’s will or that God told you that you should do so and so, when He most assuredly did not- that’s taking his name in vain. Remember those guys who tried to cast out demons in the name of Jesus and of Paul? They got a beating, and they were taking the Lord’s name in vain. Slapping God’s name on your commercial endeavors? That’s taking His name in vain.

        My two shekels. Don what you will with them. 🙂

  9. More evidence of sperm crystals and the subsequent stalactites short circuiting the brain. Jason needs a girl

  10. I’m with Jason. It was OK for Jesus to demonstrate the love of God using a member of a misguided sect (Samaritans,) He most definitely can use any IFB MoG to also tell us a thing or two. On the other hand, the one thing or two pearls of wisdom God may show us may start with: “Run, as fast as you can from that church.”

  11. Dear Jason:

    You wrote: ‘our Pastor doesn’t preach his opinions, doesn’t degrade women, use the pulpit as a whipping post etc.’

    I reply: ‘What church members admit that their pastor does these things; that’s the rub!’

    Christian Socialist

    1. Plus, who goes out of their way to say “our pastor doesn’t degrade women,” unless there seems to be some nerve struck? The shakespearean cliche “the lady doth protest too much, methinks” is fitting.

      1. Totally concur. There’s a whole lot of defensive for someone who wasn’t ever accused of anything.

  12. The only thing that would have made this post more awesome would be its posting on a Friday the 13th.

  13. Honestly, many of the thoughts Jason expressed crossed through my mind when I was first introduced to SFL. *MY* pastors weren’t crazy, and certainly not criminal. But as I spent more time here, I found Christians of other theological stripes who are Spirit-filled, Biblically literate, and, if you can see past the hurt-driven humor, full of humility and love. I grieved as I only recently learned about the horrific abuses and subsequent cover-ups that are pandemic in IFB circles. I have watched in shock at the videos that display emotionally manipulative, factually inaccurate, megalomaniacal behavior from many prominent IFB pulpits. I eventually realized that fundamentalism itself breeds this type of behavior, and that I have been very fortunate to be under the teaching of men more righteous and logical than the typical IFB Mog. However, I am dismayed that my past and present pastors continue to associate with hypocritical (at best) and criminal (at worst) people and organizations. Thank you, Darrell, for the work that you do here in exposing the works of darkness and giving us a place to heal, learn, and fellowship.

    1. I’m right in that boat with you, Claire. My experienced are the same, and I feel the same way you do.

    2. I agree. There are some really good pastors out there, but there are also some crazies. Is it bad that 75% of the pastors I have sat under have now been featured on this site? 😯

    3. I know what you mean Claire. I wasn’t raised fundy, but I chose to go to BJU (for reasons that truly only God knows). After getting just a taste of the fundy kool-aid, I am so thankful that I was not raised in that environment. Just the few short years I was at BJU was enough to scar me for a long time, though not near as bad as many people. It doesn’t take long at all.

  14. Darrell, love the macrame remark, how long have you had that in the holster, waiting to fire?

  15. Jason, you should have said that this site adds to your confusion. It’s hard to see the real truth exposed. It makes you wonder what it is that you’ve been practicing.

  16. I think I’ll start sewing some discord into my butt cushions.

    And, I’m sorry, but the foolishness line made me think of the “MuppetVision 3D” preshow at Disneyworld….

    Sam Eagle: “Stop this kind of foolishness.”
    B: “What kind of foolishness would you like to hear?”

  18. It’s not this site that adds to confusion, but trying to understand the gist of the email through the spelling and grammar was a bit challenging.

  19. Any proper fundy would of course scold you for darning discord, the alliteration is too tempting.

  20. When you have folks like Jason out there, add to it the fundy Republican state state house rep in Alabama (Fuqua) saying that unruly children should be executed (he is a fine Christian his web site will tell you), this may help explain why in the recent Pew Report that the number of “nones” – that is those professing Christianity in this country are declining – is growing. The church folk are in decline. I hope there will be some day that the we will be free of all this man made nonsense and I will rejoice when most of those type of churches are nothing more than an exhibit in the a hall of history.

    1. Don’t know about the rest of your post, NE, but even you would admit there are a least a few Unruly Children you’d be more than happy to never have to see or more importantly hear again. Duct tape can do such wonders… 😈

  21. Fundie to the core. Plan A is always to “Punish he/she who talks about what we do but change nothing about what we do.”

  22. re NE Transplant.. one phrase should add “not”, and should read: ” – that is those NOT professing Christianity….”

  23. My pastor is also one of the good guys. Preaches the truth in a non-judgmental way. But for every good guy, there are two more pastors who manipulate their flock through guilt and legalistic requirements.

  24. “I attend an IFB church. Our church is not perfect but we have not experienced the stupidity that you write about. Our Pastor doesn’t preach his opinions, doesn’t degrade women, use the pulpit as a whipping post etc.”

    I have a feeling this is true for most IFB’ers. In fact several people in the comments have expressed similar thoughts. Both the church I grew up in and the church I attend now are IFB but have very little in common with the churches parodied on this site.

    In fact, as an IFB, I enjoy this site because I can identify (as a HAC grad) with the extreme brand but I rarely see it in practice.

    I can certainly see though, how visitors might get the wrong impression and think this site represents IFB’s as a whole rather than a very small niche group (in an already niche group of Christians known as IFB’s.)

  25. My first fundy church would probably be considered more non-fundy than Jason’s. There I learned to study the Bible on my own, let God worry about the length of a man’s hair, and everyone should be welcome. But as I grew older, I saw the uplifting of the man of God (ironicly not by the mog himself) and the legalism. Then I looked at the other churches in the camp we were in, and realized that my church was the best fruit of a tree that gave out bad fruit. When I joined another BAPTIST Church, I was told I wasn’t following the Bible. I realized that they thought only they were right. Then I got around some crazies, including a Hyles church.

    Stuff Fundies Like helps me deal with the stress of knowing the truth, but feeling alone because I no longer surround myself with ‘being right.’ Humor goes a long way.

    In the end God will judge. I will leave the judgement up to him. 🙂

  26. Come on Darrell, I’m listening to the first few minutes of your radio interview and you claim that your dad was a levelheaded guy and never had time for fundy craziness. What is that? You claim that he was not a part of the craziness…so what was he a part of? Was he a part of the normal in fundyland? Either he was a crazy fundy or he wasn’t. Your dad is either part of a cult or isn’t. You don’t get the luxury of saying all fundies are crazy but exclude your father cuz he’s family, and, well, he just has a few quirks…he was levelheaded and had no time for craziness. This thinking is nepotistic, assnine…,maybe even borderline hypocritical. I’m a crazy fundamentalist. Just wanted to make sure that was clear. Didn’t want anybody to confuse me with the normal fundamentalist out there like Darrell’s father.

    1. The difference is that when people talk about crazy fundamentalists I don’t rush in to defend my dad. They’re not talking about him so I don’t see the need to take offense.

      My point here (which you’ve apparently missed) is that if I’m not talking about YOUR CHURCH and YOUR PASTOR then why bother running in to defend it or him? It doesn’t make much sense to me.

      1. Your point does make sense. You have mocked my home church and therefore I think that merits my response. Anyways…my church has been attacked by crazy hardcore fundamentalist and criticized by sites like this one…so we must be doing something right. 😎

    2. Well, Amanda, the crazy came through, loud and clear, so I’ll give you credit for that much at least.

      There is a difference between a “fundamentalist” and an “Indie Fundie.” Those of us who have been there can tell the difference very quickly indeed. It is possible to be from the Indie Fundie background, but to reject the craziness (even while still dealing with baggage, as Darrell mentioned), and to grab onto the solid Rock – the true fundamentals of the faith. If you listen to the rest of the broadcast, Darrell talks about this. It’s confusing, and it’s painful, and it happens at different speeds for different people.

      I live in Germany, and I know missionaries who live EXACTLY as Darrell describes here: supported by US churches with whom they have come to disagree on just about everything as they recognize that the idiocy (so clearly demonstrated here by Amanda) taught to them in the Indy Fundy hothouses doesn’t actually work out in the real world (or match up with Bible), but not quite able to cut all ties to those churches (still gotta feed the kids). Some of them take on second jobs just so that they CAN cut all ties. It’s a strange twilight existence, especially if they absolutely MUST go back on deputation, and I don’t envy them.

  28. Deer Derryl,

    I don’t like your sight, Stuff Kidnappers Like.
    I’m not a kidnapper, and I don’t know anyone who kidnaps people. So why do you keep picking on us?
    You are harming all of us non-kidnappers by your actions.

    Censorly,
    Gary

  29. Actually, this letter is heartbreaking for me. I could have written this letter (well, with better spelling) several years ago.

    The last IFB church I went to was by all appearances pretty good. Unfortunately, I figured by then I was too damaged by my past experiences to enjoy it. The pastor was laid-back, positively moderate by IFB standards, friendly, treated me well (something I wasn’t used to), and he was the first one to give me a hint that maybe I had been taught all wrong about the church community. He was the only IFB pastor I could respect. I thought that if more IFBs got the hint from him, there might be some hope after all. OK, eventually I got rid of that last part, especially when I found out he was no longer pastoring, but he was still an all right guy.

    Fast forward to last week. He’s dying of cancer. Unfortunately, I also found out at the same time why he was out of the pastorate: he had molested at least two girls at the church’s school. Devastation. He is going to his grave as a registered sex offender, and I’m grateful the girls did see some level of justice.

    Yes, I’ve been out of the IFB and speaking out for ages. It doesn’t mean I’m still not hurting like hell over the news.

  31. But to think about it though, fundamentalism, in theory and ideal world, is about extreme righteousness and holiness. Of course, we do not live in a theoretical ideal world, so in practice, it is about extremes of both wickedness and righteousness, because any finite being trying to achieve an ascetic level of holiness is vulnerable to the most evil perversions, as evidenced by Lucifer turning into Satan. Does that mean Christianity between the extremes does better? IMO, in a way it does, and in a way it doesn’t. So indeed, there are crazies and there is also the opposite of crazies, and thus the principle demands both types exist and interchange between. Meaning, even though we know we aren’t part of the crazies, so to speak, the potential range is there, and thus we identify with them when this site attacks us, so to speak. This principle applies to other groups, not even fundamentalism, say even demographics such as race or gender.

  32. No fundamentalist is going to identify themselves with the sins and attitudes that have rightly come to be associated with the group.

    It is the same way with anyone else. Talk about Islamic terrorists doing what they do because of their faith, and you will get lots of Muslims protesting that Islam is a religion of peace, and there is no way anyone could rightly think otherwise. They still won’t actually condemn what the other people do (there is a stricture against criticizing other Muslims), but they want you to believe that True Islam is not violent.

    The fact is that the behaviors and attitudes of fundamentalism cannot be divorced from their theology. Their theology essentially mandates that such attitudes come into existence.

    First, they believe in the inerrancy of the Scriptures. This primary doctrine goes way beyond “inspiration” or “faith and practice.” It is essentially a directive to ignore, discount, despise and reject independent thought and investigation. Any use of one’s intellect becomes sinful, a rebellion against God and ultimately worthy of death. Other doctrines create an impenetrable separation between them and others.

    One’s immortal soul depends upon believing in a certain way certain things not revealed generally to others. That makes the believer special. That God is willing to trash the rest of his creation in an eternal place of torture for daring to not believe because of no evidence is sufficient to make believers willing for people to be tortured. (In point of fact, a poll found that the American demographic most in favor of waterboarding and other tortures at Guantanamo were fundamentalist and conservative “Christians.”)

    So people are disposable. Only True Believers should have rights. Children must become completely submissive, even if they have to be brutalized to accomplish it. Their souls are at stake, after all. Everything else in the world is a threat.

    If some IFB churches are not all there in the insanity, wait a while. The seeds of their destruction are already planted and growing.

    Even those of us who have escaped IFB churches and fundamentalism generally have to be on guard for the growth of fundamentalist attitudes. Constant weeding is needed to purge these growths.

    Yes, many individuals in the IFB churches are good and kind as individuals. It is the group dynamic that turns them into monsters.

    However much one may wish to “defend” some fundamentalists, one has to understand that the dark side is never nonexistent. If not seen, it is latent. Ultimately, to be righteous before God they would sacrifice everyone else, even if God did not stay their hand.

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