357 thoughts on “E-mails From Pastors: Jack Trieber Edition”

1. I wonder who makes up the HR Department?

   1. Jack, of course.

   2. I’m sure that reporting an abusive employer’s demands that you work for nothing during summer vacation to the abusive employer himself, or his mouthpiece in HR, would give very satisfying results indeed … 🙄

2. Interesting factoid: Sheep will not reproduce when stressed.

   Apply to above situation as you will.

   1. Safe, Healthy, Well-fed Sheep Reproduce. Interesting concept. Another one: Sheep will never follow the sheepdog that is always chasing them.

3. Sig Heil!

4. Is this guy’s plan to push people out of the church? Is he trying to break the hearts and spirits of people who wish to serve God? Why is it that pastors, fundy universities, and other Christian organizations seem to be trying to destroy the faith of the people they “serve.”

   1. Yep. He is charged to feed and care for his sheep – to shepherd. I think this email could be described as dictatorial, not pastoral.

   2. This guy is trying to get the staff members to live up to their agreements; either explicitly or implied, they are required to go “soul-winning” and some of the “staff” is not going out, at least not showing up at the meetings. I’m guessing from the tone of the letter that some (many?) of the missing people work for the school, and because they aren’t employed in the summer months, think themselves absolved from having to go to these meetings.

      I’m not defending him; it was a very condescending letter, and he is trying to use fear to manipulate the people. He is trying to “lord over them”, contrary to what I Pet 5 instructs pastors to do. His attitude is “start showing up and producing numbers or you’ll be fired”. In this economy, he is using fear to force conformity.

      This letter smacks of a problem with such churches that think soul-winning is the only thing; no matter about the multitude of other passages commanding believers to be holy, and charitable, and many other things. The lack of commands to go out door-to-door selling heaven is something that they don’t consider very often.

      I can thoroughly understand how these people feel; I’ve been on the receiving end of such a rebuke, both in public and in private from a former pastor. (I wasn’t named in public). In the private meeting, he told me that I had disqualified myself from being used in any way at the church because I wouldn’t consistently go out with the church door-to-door.

      1. Why should people who don’t get paid during the summer have to work for free during the summer? Surely I don’t have to tell you how many laws, as well as principles of basic ethics, that violates.

         1. I know exactly what the response would be, having heard it: “Soul-winning is not work; it is your DUTY as a Christian. As someone with a position in the church (someone that is looked up to), you are required to set a good example.”

         2. If you show up one minute late in the morning, you are a thief. If he browbeats you into working for free (eight hours isn’t enough! You must show up at every event!) then that’s just ministry, Hay-mahn?

5. Hope you enjoy mocking preachers. I see you have been too chicken to post the remaining commentaries on the Deep South Sword of the Lord Conference from Anouymous Brave Soul. What’s holding you back?

   1. Too chicken? Nah. Just too busy. There’s just so much good material of fundamentalists being what they are that it’s hard to fit it all in.

      1. Come on Darrell. Can I consider you grilled or fried chicken? Better yet, chicken nugget. You and anonymous brave soul have dug yourself in a hole only a chicken nugget maybe the only one could get their way out. I consider you a coward until I see a special edition on the remaining days of the conference. You said you got them. You enjoy this stuff. It’s fun. Why are you all of sudden scared and give the excuse of being “busy.” Chicken! Chicken! Chicken! You know you want to release it tonight. Come on Darrell, you can do it. Give something for your you and readers to mock. I guarantee you will not do it!

         1. You are one strange puppy. I mean we have our share of trolls around here but you seem to be a troll of the weird agenda-driven variety.

            What I can’t figure is your drive to see the rest of the notes. The guy who wrote them has already left the church and has told me that there’s no harm in releasing the rest of them. He told me that long before you showed up and started making demands, so what’s the rush?

            If he’s ok with releasing them and I’m fine with it then I really don’t see what you stand to gain by reading them. I’m just going to chalk it up to one more Internet weirdo, I guess.

         2. I knew you were a coward. Guys like you enjoy putting heat on good preachers, but you cannot handle the fire. If the guy has left, what’s anonymous brave soul and you got to lose? I guess Anouymous Brave Soul never thought they would get caught. Come on Darrell, you are such a chicken. I know your Hamblin and Smith haters want to see it too. You are letting your readership down. Chicken Darrell. Coward Darrell. Come on I know you can do it. Did you lose your Fundy spirit in Sri Lanka. I am just showing your readers that you will not do it. Why do you need permission from Anouymous Brave Soul, is this your website. I hope Anouymous Brave Soul is reading this and enjoying the unemployment line and loss of a great Christian education for their kids. Y’all started this thread with the conference, you are not brave enough to finish it? Chicken Nugget Darrell!

         3. Your IP address says Alabama so I’m just going to chalk these comments up to yet another reason why I really want to move out of this state.

            You’ll see the rest of the report when I’m good and ready to release it. Which I will on my own schedule not at the behest of yet another sad fundy troll.

            Good day to you.

         4. I am in California. Again, chicken Darrell can’t do it. You must be an Auburn fan because they can’t win either. I hope you readers now see when you are put in the fire, you and Anonymous Brave Soul run and hide. I have won the battle because you are too scared to do it. I am part of Trieber’s church and we have a great songbook too. Come on Darrell, you dont want to be a loser do you? I know you want to release it really bad. Don’t dissapoint your haters. By the way, where are they? They love to criticize good preachers, but they are very quiet right now. I know some people in Alabama be glad to help you move. I bet you are bitter with your job too. War Eagle!

         5. OH!! California!
            The Granola State….

            What is’nt nuts and fruits are flakes.

            By the way..Is that Samsonstrength-fu or 4u…I’m confused

         6. Samson, why did your alleged pastor let his pervy brother-in-law come back to the church after the statute of limitations ran out? Yeah, the guy who sexually assaulted two minors, impregnating one.

            Watch what happens to Schaap with great care, cause the same thing might be visiting a church near you.

            Trieber is not a pastor. A pastor cares for the sheep – doesn’t abuse them or cover for those who do.

            All IMHO, of course.

         7. Samson is one creepy dude.

         8. Regarding the alleged statutory rape of two minors and coverup:

            http://www.fundamentalforums.com/golden-state-baptist-college/5673-any-confirmation-3.html

            “I know for a fact that it’s true. I was there.

            Both victims are married to good godly men and in the ministry. The baby was given up and was adopted by a good family at First Baptist Church.

            Strouf was kicked out and a few years ago rehired. He publicly apologized after a Sunday evening service. All the kids and teenagers were sent to McDonalds during the whole speech.”

            __________________________________________________
            note: it is my understanding Strouf was not rehired, but allowed to drive a bus for children, which is downright insane.
            ___________________________________________________

            “Get your head out of the sand …it did happen and I could list names of everyone involved. I could list names of people who knew about it that are still at that church who would be able to affirm it. The parents were under the influence of Dr. Trieber who asked them to not press charges or talk to the police. The two parents are still in that church under the influence of their almight leader who they have more allegiance to than their own families.”
            ______________________________________________

            “A few weeks ago, Pastor T claimed that the saddest day in his ministry had been when they had to shut down 4-5 busses becuz of lack of drivers. I guess he’d sell out whatever integrity he has left to get the numbers in. Unbelievable!!!!

            Strouf will have to take a criminal and sexual abuse background check…the sad thing is, he will pass and prove to everyone, that Trieber covered up the evidence to the police since he’ll have a clean record. It’s common knowledge about what he did, everyone knows he committed statutory rape, but somehow he has no criminal record??? how did that happen? It goes back to the sweeping under the rug that Trieber pulled by influencing the parents to not press charges in exchange for a promise that he’d never return. Nine years later, promise broken, and now he’s working with kids….just amazing the hight of hypocricy and arrogance at North Valley!!!!!!!!!!! This is pure pramatism…Trieber will do whatever he can to get those numbers in!”
            __________________________________________________

            “The pervert showed up at CBC in Colorado Springs for a few of those nine years away from NVBC. He was soon put on staff by Miller Sr. as an assistant pastor. Partly because he presents himself as a mans man, which is the only kind of man Miller would put in any kind of position. It was not long before the pervert was kicked out for having an adultrous affair with a married woman in the church. Why his wife stays with him is beyond me. Trieber and Miller apparently had a falling out over it because Treiber never would come to CBC and preach ever again.”

         9. Darrell is smart enough, I’m assuming, to fight his own battles. You called him out specifically, which is why we were all “quiet.” He does not need minions to back him up.

         10. I forgot to mention Strouf is Trieber’s brother in law.

         11. Uh … WTF?? 😯

         12. “… in a hole only a chicken nugget maybe the only one could get their way out.”

             Sort of a colorful expression, I guess, but what can it possibly mean???? 😐

         13. Samson is all the evidence we need as to why the South lost the Big One. Stupid is as stupid does.

         14. @ Used-To-Be-Fundy….found this late, but want to add to all who find this and read, your words are fact. I personally know the people involved, can attest to the deceit of Dr. T. to those victimized families. He was, and still is a narcissistic pastor, in the true Jack Hyles sense.

             Also, it didn’t help that his wife wanted her sister back so badly that she was willing to see the entire church leave, if it came to that….afterall, “Our college students will go out and bring in more, let’em leave!”

   2. So long as they are pretentious blowhards who are more about their position and their power;
      so long as they believe that they are demigods ruling over their fiefdoms;
      and so lonag as they promote extra biblical rules and standards over the Gospel… they deserve ridicule and to be mocked.

   3. And after Darrell’s done there, there’s enough material for three years worth of SFL posts on the Twitter feeds of Shelton Smith and John Hamblin.
      Interestingly enough, those worthies don’t seem to be interested in responding to any tweet that doesn’t start with “amen” and end with “brother”.

      I’m considering sending them a tweet that reads “Amen? Oh, brother!” and see if that fits the criteria. 😆

   4. Man, trolls are BORING.

   5. you are a weird one, Samson…

   6. Dear Samsonstrength4u:

      You wrote: ‘hope you enjoy mocking preachers.’

      I reply: ‘Pastor JT’s communique was posted without comment; perhaps you’ll explain to us how this constitutes the mockery of this pastor.’

      Christian Socialist

      1. Trieber deserves to be mocked.

         1. Dear Used-to-be-Fundy:

            Jack Trieber has disgraced himself — and more thoroughly than we ever could at that. I find it rather sad myself. My intent in this post was to indicate the baselessness of Samson’s accusation against Darrell. Darrell let Mr. Trieber speak for himself. That he interpreted this as mockery simply begs Samson to concede that point.

            Christian Socialist

      2. SS4U is engaging in what is technically called “doubleplusduckspeak”. 😈

         Thanks to Headless Unicorn Guy over at The Wartburg Watch for my new favorite term.

   7. Samsonweakness,
      You argue like a 5th grade girl.

   8. So, the guy who puts his real name on his blog and posts is the chicken, but this jerkwad is throwing stones from the safety of a user name. Sure. We all buy it.

      Post your real name, there hair boy.

   9. @FundamentalismWasHellForMe

      I kept my mouth shut at the anchor home for boys in Corpus in the 70’s that was run by Roloff…Never again will I remain silent when I see something that is as screwed up as this guy….NEVER.

      1. I agree that we should speak out against abuse, I was trying to say that Samson is saying no one here was speaking up to back up Darrell, which of course wasn’t true. Although as a Californian, I found your comments regarding us as food items interesting. Am I a granola? Or a raisin? Perhaps a chocolate chip? 😉

6. If someone prays the sinner’s prayer just to get the soul winner just to get him off his back and leave, can the soul winner count that as a saved soul or does the person have to sign something? Are you expected to save at least one soul each soul winning night? If you reach your quota, can you stop and call it a night?

   Also, I have always been curious as to how a fundie responds when they ask someone, “if you die and God asks you ‘why should I let you into my heaven?” and they reply they do not believe there is a heaven or hell. Do they Fundies just move on because they know this person can’t be convinced?

   1. Generally you just have to acknowledge that there is someone speaking to you in order to be counted in the Soulwinning Sweepstakes.

7. Love the invitation for Fundy whistleblowers, Darrell.
   

8. Reading the email brought back so many bad memories. Performance-based “Christianity” – oh, how I don’t miss it! Be in church every time the doors are open, play the piano at every service no matter how sick you or one of your kids are, “when you get your heart right with God you’ll interpret it my way,” only the KJV1611 is the Word of God that can save, don’t wear pants, don’t go to the movies, don’t listen to rock or country or contemporary Christian, don’t listen to any preacher except the pastor, etc., etc., etc.

   We escaped 21 years ago. It took a major church split with keys to the pastor’s new car being hurled into the congregation during a pastoral temper tantrum – but we escaped.

   So I grieve for those poor people still in bondage to a man and belief system like that. When you’re “in it,” it’s hard to see that you’re in chains. Perhaps God will use that arrogant, self-serving email to open their eyes. I hope so.

   1. I was volunteer at his buddy’s church. Cvbc Manteca. He is like his
      Buddy. No mercy. Dictator. Hateful. Accusing. He told someone I had to get rid of her (of me) because I planned a bday party for a member who many mocked. Accused of adultery I guess. Same song and dance. (No ballet no movies women wear dresses. No pants) etc. over twenty years of IFB church Preachers like them are cruel.

9. This pastor has a serious problem- He needs to pay people to do the work of the ministry instead of training the converts in his church how to minister to others (if they are saved at all).
   Also, A pastor is to LEAD the sheep. Sheep are lead, cattle are driven.
   Perhaps he should spend time asking the Lord what he could do to improve the situation.

10. That is certainly the ultimate in man-centered, Christless “ministry”, spelled out clearly for the entire staff to see. “If you don’t faithfully attend the church functions designed to increase our numbers (and arrive early), you are going to lose your job, and therefore your salary and health insurance.” He made sure to make it sound as threatening as he possibly could. He all but said, “And what will your family do when I take away your money and health insurance?”

    I can only hope that, with the real state of the leadership spelled out so plainly for them, many of the staff will wake up and leave that church now.

    1. Wonder where they will find jobs with those unaccredited “degrees”. I will pray for them.

       1. Degree or no degree, they aren’t doing themselves any favors by sticking around. 🙁

          1. Absolutely!

          2. I graduated from there. Sure, I have no accredited degree. But I met my best friend who is now my wife. Yeah, there are some disgraceful things we see in IFB, but that doesn’t prompt unkindness from our end.

             God still provides for our family, accredited or non-accredited, you just have to realize that there are still impressionable young Christians there seeking for some direction in life in college. And I do have a job, but it’s not because of my own merit or accredited degree. I give God all glory for that because I’m nothing.

             One of my friends from college, who was my groomsman, is going to Honduras to reach the lost. He’s given up more things than you and I have given up. No, I’m not talking about finances. I’m talking about comfort. That’s with an unaccredited degree. Accreditation is such a minuscule factor as long as you’re following God’s path for you. Some become doctors. Some become artists. High wage, low wage, that’s with and without accreditation.

             So the next time you or someone else belittles a person, just take a long look in the mirror and read James 1:24. Look, I’m not trying to justify the man because I don’t care for the hype and all, but that doesn’t mean we’re justified to be mean, mock someone back, or demonstrate anything that is contrary to the Fruit of the Spirit.

             You think Pastor Trieber worse off than you? Then show us a better example by your demeanor and lifestyle. I’m talking to everyone here. Not trying to hurt anybody, but sometimes it’s easy to throw objectivity out the window. Am I excusing the truth? No way, I just want everyone to remember John 8:7. Let’s learn from other’s mistakes and have the heart of forgiveness. Whether it’s Darwin, Stalin, Hitler, Bin Laden, Bush, Obama, your state legislator, the co-worker working next to you, your family members, your friends, your lost loved ones, pastor Trieber, we all need to forgive them because God first loved us.

             What should we do then? Well I haven’t seen anyone voice the need to pray for someone in such a high office. Didn’t the Bible say to pray for those in high places? President Obama can still have conviction anymore than Pastor Trieber. And what better way to start a change by praying that some Christian leader would be brave enough to confront the status quo and tear down the misconceptions of Chrisianity.

       2. Mike there have been so many testimonies from unaccredited IFBx college grads who are unable to use their “degree”. Many have had to start over as freshmen at real colleges.

          Low wages is more typical. How many times have I seen fb pages of these grads with “Artisan Sandwich Maker at Subway” as their occupation?

          With so many high quality accredited schools out there, it makes no sense to choose an unaccredited school. God works at these other colleges too. Unfortunately schools like GSBC convince people God is calling them ONLY to their school…sad and wrong.

          1. I agree with you that it’s very misleading. But every college out there does the same thing.. it’s the hard world of recruitment.

             I teach Sunday School for the teenagers and I always make it a point to encourage them to find the path that brings them closest to God. After my experience in a bible college, I assure you that bible college isn’t for everyone, and that’s how I approach my teens.

             But who cares if I’m poor or rich? God’s the master of our lives and He knows that some of us went there not having a “future” after graduation. But again, finances do not help me get closer to God. Finances, as much as demographics, are peripheral to what’s most important, and that’s following God’s directives.

             Funny you should mention Sandwich artist, as I worked there one summer during college. I remember how all the workers there were bitter about their job and how they thought their low wages justified their sour attitude. I told myself that it didn’t matter. A job is still a job, and whatever your job is, be good at it. We can learn from the story of Joseph, how he progressed from the little things. It’s like when David was young, he tended the sheep which prepared him for the giant.

             If anyone is mislead in here, it’s me. I was expecting to go out into the ministry. I wanted to be hired! But of course when I got my BA, nothing happened. Then I stayed for my MA, still nothing happened. It still didn’t hit me yet, mind you. It hit me when I wanted to raise a family. But I look back to how God met every need I had. How can I not trust Him for the rest of my needs?

          2. Baloney. Every college out there does NOT do the same thing. Only the unaccredited scheister schools. The diploma mills. The frauds.

             So, you are a fatalist? Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die? Whatever will be will be? Thou fool! That was God’s response to such a mindset. God gave you a brain with the expectation that you would use it.

             Do not test the Lord your God. Someone important said that once. It’ll come to me.

             You don’t stand in the middle of the freeway and say, oh-so-piously, “if it’s God’s will, I won’t get hit by a Mack truck.” And you don’t go to a school that produces useless degrees and then demand that God take care of you, either. That’s what makes this fraud so pernicious. People in trusted positions – people who demand spiritual submission to their own authority – people who KNOW that a non-accredited degree is an anchor around the neck of most graduates – are taking advantage of their position and their power to take good money from 19-year-olds in exchange for bad college degrees.

             Can God turn that mess around and put you in a good job? Undoubtedly. I am proof. But that isn’t a defense for the fraudster. Please don’t defend the fraudster.

          3. Mike, I disagree that all colleges do this or that it is okay to write it off as “recruitment”. They need to maintain their integrity. Many accredited colleges seek to help students reach their goals, not just pigeon hole them into what they think God’s will is for the students’ lives.

             And no one who pays for 4 years of college aspires to work at Subway or McDonalds. When one is paying significant tuition, post graduation wages have to matter. No one needs to attend a Bible college to get closer to God…that is extra-biblical nonsense. They would be better served getting an accredited degree from a solid school.

          4. Mike, be careful about condemning the Sandwich artists… when I was a college student and single, any job was a blessing.

             But as you age and take on more responsibilities, and it is YOUR fault that you can’t meet your family’s needs, it is very hard not to be sour. I know that we shouldn’t be sour and should always do our best, but I have sympathy for men who have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet.

    2. I can only hope… that they staff members will wake up and leave

       But… but… but… then they’d lose their health insurance!

       🙂

11. Long-time lurker coming out of hiding for this message to Samsonstrength….

    Do you realize that your threatening to “out” Darrell to his employers is harassment, and could be subject to legal action? How is threatening to ruin someone’s professional life in any way Christ-like? How about removing the dozen or so two-by-fours stuck in your eye sockets before posting another word?

    Your Jesus isn’t one I would follow if he condones actions such as yours.

    1. Not to worry. Nothing that I do is in any violation of any of my employer’s policies.

       I’ve checked.

       1. That’s good. It’s just that people like him/her tend to send me into “Hulk SMASH!” mode. Not proud of it, but there it is.

    2. I’m sure Darrell has been threatened many times. Normally he farts in their general direction and just walks away. Darrell, keep up the good work, Bro.

    3. Wait… Darrell has a day job? I thought it took his whole waking hours just to keep this place going.
       And I am willing to guess most employers don’t care what political/religous/social blogs their employees run on their own time. Whatever groups of people may be offended here (i.e. Fundies) are such a minority of the population, it can’t affect Darrell’s boss’s business too much.

       1. Lol true! Secular employers aren’t psychotic, controlling weirdos like Fundies lol they DON’T care what you do off the clock.

12. The whole health insurance/benefits statement–2 words: passive. aggressive.

    1. Also: “I want performance.” The anthem of IFB.

    2. Sorry–but this letter makes me mad. One more thing. This is guilt, guilt, guilt, guilt and why so many people go crackers after leaving IFB. At least, I was one that did. I couldn’t take the guilt and not ever being good enough. It broke me completely down.

    3. Not even that passive…

13. This guy sounds a lot like Schaap. This is the way Schaap would rant on Sunday nights. Well, he did two years ago. Hadn’t been to a Sunday evening service for a long time, lol. *waits for sex scandal about Trieber to come out*

    1. Sex scandal? Maybe. With his emphasis on nickles and noses, my opinion is that any crime he committed would be more along the lines of a fiduciary scandal.

       1. It’s really sad that it seems to be either sex scandals or financial skullduggery with these guys.

          NOTE: I am sure that there are many good (probably small) fundamental Baptist churches out there… but when one gets obsessed by having a nation-wide or global ministry, it seems that pride is easily able to enter in a wreck a ministry.

          1. I came from a small IFB church whose pastor has an ego problem. However, I agree with you that just like everything else in this world, there is good and bad in the IFB. I’m sure there are some good IFB churches. Nothing is all bad.

       2. Well, according to witness reports he covered up for his brother-in-law, Mike Strouf’s alleged sex abuse.

14. I am regularly grieved by the teachings and actions of the IFB. I wish they would listen to this song and really think about it, allowing its message to penetrate to their core. Maybe then they would be less angry, controlling, scared all the time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL7BUro0M7k

    1. They haven’t even sang and I don’t like it already because they use that Hellywood stage lighting. Ceiling recessed can lights and 8′ florescent uncovered tube lights with one burnt out are the only lights Christians should use in a auditorium.

    2. He must not play well with others.
       The tracking is really cool but all the clones in the video are a bit distracting.
       I really did like the song however.

       1. I agree about the videos. I don’t watch them. I just listen.

    3. I happen to like Ben Everson. Good stuff and good talent.

15. The attitude of this jerk is exactly the reason I will never be employed by a church again. I laughed at my pastor when he told me to bring a signed bulletin back when I went out of town to visit a friend. And then I realized he wasn’t kidding. 🙄

    1. At my church we were not only required to have a bulletin, but if we had facebook and a smartphone, we had to take a timestamped picture and post it when we got to the church to ensure we made it in time for Sunday School.

       1. That is just ridiculous.

       2. I agree with Marcie — wow, just wow. That is so controlling. Were you on staff? I can see a pastor controlling staff like that (not that it’s right), but I don’t see how a member could take it.

          1. I was non-paid volunteer staff. Remember my reward is in heaven.

    2. Even our IFB pastor never asked that of us!

       1. Of course, I wasn’t a paid employee – I was the church pianist. And “bless God, I’ll never pay a musician in this church. If you can’t play for the glory of God, you don’t deserve to play here!” **But wasn’t the pastor and the music director paid?**

          1. Oops – “weren’t”

          2. Church pianist here as well – my pastor said the same thing all the time. Funny how they will whine about no one being willing or able to play the piano, then denigrate the few who can/do with comments like that from the pulpit. 🙄

16. Even if some of the concerns that were expressed may have been valid, Trieber’s letter seems like by the time he started mentioning the staff’s salary and benefits, he had crossed the line into “power trip” territory.

17. This pastor, who I have never heard of until now, is a spiritual abuser. Plain and simple. He is using his “power” to control the behavior of others and using God has his hammer.

    1. YES. Thank you.

18. No e-mails or letters, but I can’t tell you the number of “devotions”, “family meetings”, or “faculty meetings” that I attended that this letter reminded me of. Can’t believe how blind I was not to see it at the time. I simply drank the kool-aid.

    If you’re in a similar situation, you do have choices. God didn’t intend for you to live this way. It’s so much better on the other side.

    1. No more kool-aid for me as of this week. I’ve already started enjoying some of God’s sweet tea!

       1. O, taste and see that the Lord is good!

       2. Dear Coming Out!

          The Lord bless you and keep you!
          The Lord make his face shine upon you
          and be gracious unto you!
          The Lord turn his face toward you
          and grant you his peace!

          Praise God!

          Christian Socialist

       3. Congratulations! Welcome to freedom!

       4. Can I give some unsolicited advice? Read some books that your fundie church told you not to read.

19. I know the name of a good labor attorney I can forward to the poor souls who received this letter. This letter can be construed as harassment. Unless there is a signed contract that specifically states that people in the employ of the church are required to attend the meetings in question, then pastor Jackass is S-O-L…and if he does fire someone or cut their benefits for that reason…well let’s just say he’s going to be the one looking for an attorney.

    1. I don’t think a labor attorney could help – most courts allow churches to make hiring and firing decisions without pretty clear interference.

       Plus, most of the staff members DO have to sign an agreement (details vary) about what they are required to do. If it doesn’t explicitly state “attend at least one of the church-sponsored soul-winning times”, it has other language that can be interpreted to mean that.

       1. That’s not legally correct, GR, although it varies from state to state. The “loophole” in most states – especially in the South – is that a religious organization can fire anyone for not being in line with the beliefs and teachings of the organization. However, if anyone was fired for not going “soul-winning” (I just realized how satanic that phrase sounds), a labor attorney would only have to demonstrate inconsistency to win a judgement. Every staffer would have to be fired after missing the same number of meetings, otherwise it is wrongful termination, although probably not discrimination in most states. Not to throw the book at you, but HR law is an area I’m quite familiar with. 😉

          1. I don’t feel at all that a book is being thrown at me; I appreciate the correction and the information.

             But yes, I think he would show that any “staff” person who missed as many “soul-winning” meetings would be fired. That’s effectively what his threat was.

20. I have a couple of questions and comments about this horrid e-mail:

    1) Are “soul winning meetings” the exact same thing as what some people call “revivals”? You know, the tent, the loud and emotional preacher, the offering, the altar call, etc.?

    2) I notice that Trieber doesn’t say “lack of love for Christ” but “lack of love for the cause of Christ”. Does he equate the two and is just too chicken to accuse this e-mail’s recipients of the former? And since when does proselytizing = Jesus?

    3) “I want performance”. How is this different from what a Wal-Mart manager would say to employees who aren’t meeting their sales quotas? How am I supposed to differentiate the message of this “man of God” from the same message preached by secular people?

    4) What is “soul winning”? I mean, really? If it’s just sticking a tract into the handle of my front door when I’m not home, you haven’t “won” my soul. You’ve only given me a message to read, and it’s up to me whether to accept it or not. Also, if you try the door-to-door tactic, what if I’m skeptical of you? What is the REAL goal of “soul winning”? Fundamentalists say it’s to save people from hell, but what is soul winning minus the religious jargon?

    5) The “God bless you” sounds an awful lot like an “I love you” after a physical or psychological beating. It’s completely ineffective and insincere, in my opinion. “God rebuke you” would have been a more honest exclamation in this particular email.

    What gives?
    Shakhmaty

    1. I have a couple of answers for you:
       1) Soul Winning Meetings are scheduled times for you to grab an armful of church literature (commonly referred to as church tracts) and go through neighborhoods knocking on every door ensuring that every person you meet gets a church tract. Its a bonus if you can coax someone into repeating a 1 2 3 pray after me salvation prayer, but you can usually get those with only small children and group homes.

       If you get kicked out of an apartment complex that has signs posted no soliciting give yourself 10 points. If you can cite the exact details of the supreme court case stating that giving out church information is not soliciting give yourself 1000 bonus points. If you get arrested and David Gibbs has to come rescue you, you get “staff member of the year award” and a gold soul-winning metal at the annual staff Christmas party.

       3) Paid IFB staff typically has to justify their paid position by the number of tithing families they have brought to the church. These families are usually in a revolving door and they don’t stay long so to keep your numbers up you must go “soul winning”. A lot of times if your tithing family count is down you can justify it by mass canvasing half of your town, that shows you tried, but only during organized scheduled church door winning time.

       4) Coming out of the IFB I have titled this “soul winning” as “door winning”. The 2 fundy commandments are love your bus-route and love knocking on doors.

    2. “Soul-winning”, in an IFB church, usually means going out and knocking on doors in the neighborhood, and trying to bring people to Jesus Christ.

       As you point out, “soul-winning” is a terrible term for this; as a friend of mine pointed out, if you call it “soul-winning”, that implies that you are a failure if you don’t “win” a soul. And, to talk Biblically, we don’t win anyone; we bear witness to the truth, and it is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict them of sin.

       Sadly, in many IFB churches, “soul-winning” times are far short of the ideal. Staff members are forced to go. Anyone who has anykind of leadership in the church is forced to go door-to-door. People who want to get anywhere in the church are forced to go. I almost had a mental breakdown from doing this. The methods used are really selling heaven, not lifting up Jesus Christ. It is all about selling, but the sale is getting people to say a prayer.

       1. “The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.”-Proverbs 11:30

          That’s the source of the term. I don’t have as much of a problem with the term as I have with the methodology. High-pressure sales pitch, with no genuine relationship, and precious little follow-up. For many churches, it was notches in the gunbelt, and nothing more.

          1. I think my friend is right; that phrase in Prov 11 has nothing at all to do with the house-to-house door-knocking and trying to sell people a ticket to heaven by saying a prayer.

             If you are going mushroom gathering and get no mushrooms, you have failed in your task.

             To call it “soul-winning” is to imply that you are a failure of you don’t “win” somebody; my friend has convinced me that this is a terrible term. Witnessing, evangelizing, telling the good news — these are all decent terms, but soul-winning puts a burden on people that God Himself does not.

21. Y’all need to leave me and my daddy alone!

    1. I will resist the temptation to post John 8:44. I will resist the temptation to post John 8:44. I will resist the temptation to post John 8:44. I will resist the temptation to post John 8:44. I will resist the temptation to post John 8:44…

       1. Laughed so hard it sent me into a coughing fit!! 😆

22. Well, I was going to leave a snarky comment, but I just can’t. This kind of spirit just isn’t funny – it is from the Enemy. So, a question for all – how many of us actually came to know Christ through one of these events?

    1. Not I. My dad led me to Christ at our house. Not my kids, either. My wife led them to Christ at our house.

       My dad used to go on visitation occasionally, because he was “checking a block.” It was not his calling, and he was miserably bad at it.

       My mom, on the other hand, was really good at it, and led quite a few people to Christ, and still has a relationship with many of them lo these 30-40 years later.

       But since the Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses started knocking on doors so much, most IFB of my acquaintance have pulled back from cold-calling door-to-door in favor of witnessing to people with whom they have a relationship…out in the marketplace, like Paul did.

    2. I was brought to Christ by a woman in an IFB church. (This is a long story, but I’m not going into it now.) She spent time with me, listening to my questions and concerns, and actually prayed with me one evening that God would show me whether I was truly saved or not. He did, of course, because He wants all to come to the knowledge of the truth. But it took three months and many prayers and conversations.

    3. During the seven years I was in churches where I went door-knocking consistently, I never saw one lost person get saved, baptized, and discipled, nor one Christian join the church, as a result of the “soul-winning” program.

       1. I couldn’t say that I’ve gone consistently for that long, but you bring up a good point… most of the members who stuck were not newly saved. Interesting.

23. Speaking of Paul, he OBVIOUSLY wasn’t a great man of God. Because if he were, he would have referred to himself as Pastor, rather than simply calling himself Paul, a bondservant…

    You know, so as to keep a proper distance from the hoi polloi; to let them know that he wasn’t their friend; that he was a step or two above them on God’s social scale.

    Too bad Paul didn’t have the likes of Treiber or Gipp to show him the Way of the Master, so Paul could avoid the embarrassment of pouring out his heart of love to his people as he did in his Epistles.

24. Some people drink the kool aid, others snort it right out of the envelope.

    There’s always a business side of an ‘institution’, but not of the real Church. The true Church reaches out and loves people without pay.

    There is so much disturbing about this letter.
    ‘Another strange phenomenon’ What’s the other one?
    ‘distressing to me personally’ he is taking it personally? hmmm
    Then he invokes the name of the ‘first lady’.
    ‘lack of love for the cause of Christ’ since when does attending meetings a portrayal of love? I can’t find this in the bible.
    This letter is so full of condemnation and manipulation it’s ridiculous. It’s obvious they struggle financially and whipping the backs of the people is only going to make them want to leave..which would be good for them anyway. and what an INSULT to people in their community… they’re just another number with a dollar sign. I would prefer a staff that truly loves to go visit folks than a staff that HAS to because they’re being threatened by the pastor.

    ‘I am expecting a huge change. I want it to be evident in our bus numbers,
    soul winning numbers, baptisms, and salvations.’ This is so sad. Run for the hills, people..run as fast as your feet can carry you.

    ‘ It is like a ghost town when I show up to these meetings—that is certainly not acceptable.’ I think it’s called Ichabod.

    From a ‘friend’ huh? I wouldn’t choose to have a friend who treats people like this.

    1. “Some people drink the kool aid, others snort it right out of the envelope.”

       My new favorite quote. Thanks bunches, Sisterlisa!

       

       1. That was my favorite thing I read all day.

       2. Brilliant!

25. I think rule # 39 applies here… ‘Any church members who is not “here and in their place” during special meetings will be punished by being used as a sermon illustration.’

    or via a mass email.

    1. Dear Sisterlisa:

       I concur that Rule 39 is relevant.

       That said, Mr. Jack Trieber’s screed implies that he holds authority to terminate staff contracts based on rather subjective criterion — laziness, lack of love, not ‘sold out,’ etc.

       For that reason, I’d ask whether this warrants the formulation of Rule 73, incorporating the above named issues.

       Christian Socialist

26. Stress? This is a letter to PAID staff. Where else could you do nothing and get paid?

    1. It’s not doing nothing – from the tone, this was probably sent to teachers in the academy or college who were not being paid over the summer, and didn’t think that they had to attend the soul-winning meetings. They are paid (probably underpaid) for teaching — all this other stuff is extra.

       As I’ve said elsewhere, it depends upon what is written into the contracts. I fully expect that they had to sign a form that requires them to attend at least one of the church-wide soul-winning times.

27. Saw this on Facebook the other day: “Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you a to-do list.”

    Said Jesus NEVER!

    1. Jesus’ yoke is easy. Jesus’ burden is light. These so-called men of God know precious little about the God they claim to serve. That’s why their sermons are so bereft of Scripture…other than a few proof texts.

    2. There really should be a meme of that…

28. My comments probably are not going to be well liked, but, here it goes:

    I understand the pastors frustration dealing with lazy and slothful people who claim “Christ Crucified” but can’t be found to lift a finger because they are afraid they might break a fingernail or break a sweat.

    I have also met lazy and slothful people who claim “Christ Crucified” who can spend their time with the football, soccer, and latest technological god but at the same time will get a “bad attitude” if you ask them to pray for a sick church member.

    I have also met lazy and slothful people who claim “Christ Crucified” who will be on the phone, email, texting, etc. 16-20 hours per day gossipping about some church woman who is “white trash”, “garbage”, “and I don’t know why the pastor allows such rif-raf in the church”, etc. while their very young children sit eating a box of cookies (or don’t eat at all), or sit in a filthy diaper because “mommy is busy talking about Mrs. So and So”.

    I have met lazy and slothful people who claim “Christ Crucified” who have NEARLY cost the lives of others with their laziness and slothfulness and NEVER to this day feel any remorse for it, but instead, are quite proud of it!

    I have met lazy and slothful people who claim “Christ Crucified” who hate Jesus Christ with such fiery passion that you could not get them to move even if you paid them, but they claim “Christ Crucified” because “my parents/ grandparents/ great-grandparents were Christian pastors/ missionaries/ deacons/etc. and I have to carry on the family tradition”; and their “claim” is the ONLY thing you will EVER get from them!

    I realize that my comment will anger some or all on this board BUT the truth is I have to agree with the pastor because the majority of people who “claim” “Christ Crucified” do it only when it serves their purpose, and when it no longer serves their purpose, they change to another…..sort of like changing clothes for the occasion.

    BUT, I have to disagree with the pastor on one thing.

    He says “lack of love for the cause of Christ”. That is not the root of their problem. The “root” of the problem is this: they love the money and the benefits, but they hate Christ. “It’s a job” with no dedication for Jesus Christ.

    Jesus made it very clear what HE thought about this. There are many passages in the Holy Bible.

    Matthew 7:20-23 states:”Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

    Matthew 6:33 states: “But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and HIS righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

    1. Well, you certainly are ignorant, I’ll give you that much.

       Your own Bible citations condemn you. Because often, in these churches, it is the “pastor” who won’t risk breaking a sweat (or a fingernail). It is the “pastor” who gets a new Cadillac every couple of years while his congregation (especially the staff) works 20-hour days to keep the buses running seven days per week while getting paid so little that they can’t afford to buy meat for six months at a time (ask me how I know this). It is the “pastor” who bully-rags a mother who is still in the hospital after childbirth, asking how she is going to fulfill her duty to produce a banquet for 250 people tomorrow (ask me how I know this).

       Yes, indeed. “By their fruits ye shall know them.” This “pastor’s” fruit was a church who had become so accustomed to having everything dictated to them, they lacked the strength to stand on their own two feet when the “pastor” retired, or the biblical knowledge and understanding to know when the word from the pulpit was contrary to the Word of God. His son, the heir apparent to the throne, was so arrogant and entitled that the people got up and said NO…they were not willing to accept him as their pastor. For which they were condemned as bitter ingrates.

       Are you unaware that so many dedicated church people have been so dedicated to jumping whenever their pastor said “jump,” they lost their own children in the process? That the Bible says that a man who doesn’t take care of his own family has denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel?

       The breaking point for my parents came when one particularly idiotic “pastor” started scheduling special services every single night of the week, for weeks on end. Because we were of the “every time the doors are open” school of thought, we were physically and spiritually exhausted. Midway through a Tuesday night three-hour-long missionary slide presentation (you probably think I’m exaggerating), my dad looked down the row and said, “let’s go home.” Yep. We fit right there in your description of people who loved the money and benefits, but hate Christ. My dad was getting paid quite a bit less than McDonalds wages, and we had no benefits.

       Why don’t you go play in traffic.

       1. MSK,

          I love your final comment telling me to go play in traffic. A very “Christ like” comment to make.

       2. This comment is not talking about a woman in the hospital recovering from childbirth.

          I have a question for “YOU”:

          There are 24 hours in a day times 7 days per week which equals 168 hours per week.

          “YOU” “complained about your family being physically and spiritually exhausted for spending 3 hours per evening times 7 days per week to equal 21 hours per week hearing Gods Word in Gods house.

          Also, add Sunday morning worship, which goes around 10:00 a.m to 12:30 p.m, but lets just round it off to 1:00 p.m equals 3 added hours.

          So, 21 hours plus 3 hours equals 24 hours per week to hear Gods Word in Gods house.

          So, 168 hours per week minus 24 hours per week equals 144 hours per week left.

          Now, take 144 hours minus a 40 hour work week which equals 104 hours per week left.

          Take 3 hours per day times 7 days per week for commuting(1.5 hours in the morning and 1.5 hours in the evening)which equals 21 hours per week commuting.

          104 hours per week minus 21 hours per week equals 83 hours per week left.

          Let’s say you sleep 8 hours per night times 7 days per week equals 56 hours of sleep per week.

          So, take 83 hours minus 56 hours equals 27 hours per week left.

          Take 2 hours per day for meals, prep, and cleanup times 7 days equals 14 hours per week for meals, prep, and cleanup after the meals.

          27 hours per week minus 14 hours per week equals 13 hours per week left.

          Now, I trust it did not take 13 hours per week to do laundry, housekeeping, and grocery shopping.

          While the laundry washes, you can be “multi-tasking” by doing the housekeeping, or grocery shopping.

          So, spending 3 hours per week to do the laundry while also doing the housework, take 13 hours minus 3 hours per week which equals 10 hours left.

          If you spend 5 hours per week shopping (groceries/ birthday/etc. shopping), take 10 hours per week minus 5 hours equals 5 hours left.

          5 hours left per week to watch tv, see a movie, gossip on the phone, WHATEVER.

          So, PLEASE do NOT complain about being “burdened” with spending 24 hours per week in Gods house when you spend 144 hours in the “world”!

          1. ^This is the epitome of legalism. There are 168 hours in a week….don’t complain if I demand 21 of them.

             The New Testament makes it clear that the Christian life is lived in the marketplace and the city. Christianity is a 24-hour commitment…being at a physical church building is not.

          2. “YOU” “complained about your family being physically and spiritually exhausted for spending 3 hours per evening times 7 days per week to equal 21 hours per week hearing Gods Word in Gods house.

             Unless someone traveled back in time to before 70AD and worshipped in the Temple in Jerusalem, OR someone had rebuilt the Temple in Jerusalem then no-body has heard God’s word in God’s house in our lifetime. And anyone who equates the brick and mortar structures that are called “churches,” with God’s house, is practicing extra Biblical superstition.

          3. NITC – For what it is worth, that is the exact same sales pitch I got some years ago from people from Amway when they wanted me to join.
             Interesting that you are selling Christ just as if you are selling Amway.
             Your comment makes me think you are either a Poe, or someone who is delusional about Christianity.

          4. I got tired reading NITC’s comments…time for a nap!

    2. NITC, I think we’ve all met people like that. Yet, where in the letter do we know these people behave like that? We’re not addressing the behavior or attitudes of the people the letter is to – we don’t know them. However, we’re certainly condemning the behavior and attitude of the writer, since he’s put it out there for us to see.

       Specifically, what we’re condemning is the method he’s using to try to get the church to do what he wants. It doesn’t take a genius to see that this letter may get the people to ACT like they’re doing what he wants, but it certainly won’t bring them (or likely anyone else) closer to Christ.

       1. I was going to come back here and respond to this letter, but you already said everything I wanted to, Mag!

    3. What a boring rant. And hard to see the connection between people not being at a “soul winning meeting” and someone who neglects their child. There is no reason to believe these people are being lazy or slothful, for all anyone knows they are working a second job at that time.

    4. NITC, you know the sweetest people. Of course, all of your statements appear to be designed to paint these people whom you have never met (I presume) as “lazy and slothful.” You go from your charming anecdotes, including the hair-raising assertion that the majority of people who “claim Christ crucified” (I suppose that you mean that the death of Jesyus and His resurrection saves them) do so out of deceptive motives. All of this in order to support the pastor’s condemnation of people whom you don’t even know. Legitimate questions about job descriptions and expectations have been raised, but no one has defended the pastor’s attitude and demeanor in this communication, because it’s pretty much indefensible. If a secular employer took the overbearing, sneering, and threatening tone this “Man of God” does when addressing employees, I’d leave immediately. The context of the letter makes it pretty clear that these are employees of the school, and are currently mostly not being paid. Arguing that every staff member should participate in a specific Church activity as a demonstration of their love for Christ is contrary to Paul’s clear teaching on the equipping of the saints.

29. I will give it this much, if people don’t serve it is because they won’t serve. My Dad has taught me that. One day when I rule the church, I intend to make the people serve.

    Which do I want more from my people, to love me,or fear me? That is a good question…. I want both! I want them to be afraid of how much they love me!

    See treiber has done what others are afraid to do, he has drew a line in the sand and demanded from disloyal staff, “Who is on my side,let him come to me”. This BIBLICAL! I agree with not in the clique.

    1. I think I know you, is your middle name Poe?

30. I will give it this much, if people don’t serve it is because they won’t serve. My Dad has taught me that. One day when I rule the church, I intend to make the people serve.

    See treiber has done what others are afraid to do, he has drew a line in the sand and demanded from disloyal staff, “Who is on my side,let him come to me”. This BIBLICAL! I agree with not in the clique.
    These people agreed to be paid to work a twenty hour week, and lose their families, if they want to flip burgers with a better attitude, than they need to do it….news flash to the crucified sloths…. They will expect you to be there on scheduled work days!

31. I remember reading about this one guy over in Europe in the forties who laid out a good plan to build the IFB church of the future. He had a great youth program, and a sweet office under two tons of concrete. Awesome graphic design department, and well trained YOUNG generals to run things while he hid out in his bunker…I mean office, and directed a ministry built on fantasy. Awesome role model, and if I can combine his method with treiber!!!! I be like a ministry Jedi!

32. I wrote a large comment on this, but I decided to delete it because nothing would come of it. I’ll just say that I know Trieber very well and have heard him preach many, many times. I honestly think that he is a master of neuro-linguistic programming without him knowing what it is. He can use the power of his voice and words to influence you. He can sound so sincere that you can’t help but empathize with whatever he is saying.

    I have heard Trieber say that “it’s not about the numbers.” Yeah, well this email says otherwise. He expects there to be numerical improvement in the things he cares about the most: the bus route, baptisms, and salvations. I’m so sick and tired of church leaders who care so much about numerical growth in church attendance, salvations, and baptisms. Numerical growth has absolutely no correlation with spiritual growth. A church can have the same attendance yet still be ‘growing’ in what really matters.

    Trieber is also one of those preachers who follow the logic of, “So you believe that so-and-so is a great Christian lady and yet she wears pants? That’s fine, but we should be doing “so much the more as ye see the day approaching.’ I don’t want to be doing less, and I want to be doing more.” <- This shows that refusing to wear pants and following other standards means 'doing more for God'. That's the IFB logic.

    Also, with Trieber and similar preachers, it's all about doing more for God than you are already doing. You prayed 15 minutes yesterday? Pray 16 minutes today, then 17 tomorrow. You read your Bible for 30 minutes yesterday? Read for 31 minutes today. DO MORE, DO MORE, DO MORE!

33. Beat Anticipation! There is a new term for our vocabularies.
    http://contendforthefaith.ca/2011/03/29/analyzing-adapted-ccm-songs/

34. Oops. Posted on the wrong thread. I’m sorry 😳

35. As a former student of GSBC and a former member of Trieber’s church, I can say this letter shows EXACTLY why I left his church and fundamentalism. (WOOHOO!!) I remember when they dedicated their new building and there was SUCH bragging about the FOUR, white grand pianos CUSTOM ordered & imported from Germany at $500,000 a piece. He then talked about the cost of the chandeliers and proceeded to say it in such a way that “honored” the people who gave and sacrificed to have such an incredible, impressive and P.I.M.P. (my word) building. I was amazed & disgusted at the money spent on completely uneccessary and pointless things. I was sick and knew that night I wouldn’t be around much longer. Over the course of the next several months, he RAILED and I mean RAILED/spiritually abused & manipulated his members service after service saying how short they were on the general fund. How financially struggling they were. I remember him having people raise their hands right then and there who would give $200, $100, $50, $25 THAT evening. He would not continue the service ’til the deficit was raised that night. The night I left & didn’t look back was when he accused the members of having “sin in the camp” and “unconfessed sin” being the reason why the church was struggling financially. I couldn’t believe it. I sat there and my heart broke for these people who were run ragged & bled dry then accused of being wicked as the reason for the churches struggles…all while the $500,000 pianos played the altar call. I was sick, livid and DONE with NVBC. I agree with the commentor above. JT has a way of saying something with such a “compassionate tone” that makes you feel he cares about your “struggles” which he defines & uses to blame the members for the churches woes. I remember people telling me they were praying the church would go bankrupt so the members could be free from bearing the burden of debt. I felt like telling them stop praying the church will go bankrupt, just stop attending and rebuild your life!
    I digress. Sadly, this email from JT does not shock me. Rather, it brings back the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach I felt when I was a member of his church for the people being used & abused.
    NVBC members & staff- do not be afraid to leave and rebuild your lives & your families. Since leaving NVBC, I have experienced such joy & such fullness of hope through the True Lord Jesus Christ! (((hugs)))

    1. Wow. The word that jumps out at me is disgust. I get so sick at the vulgar spending on church buildings in the U.S. I cannot imagine Jesus sitting in a single one of them, and not throwing crap out the front door. 🙁

    2. If you remember in college like I do, there is a clear separation between the trouble makers and the ones wanting to do right. There were those who would text during service, mock the bible, and involve in moral sins.

       If you remember in college like I do, you know who you shouldn’t be hanging around with, because they would throw euphemisms and talk about worldly tv programming, and educate themselves in secular music.

       I remember avoiding those that were cynical, did not want anything to do with God, and those that criticized the Word of God. I remember those that had personal revelations and started spreading heresy. I remember how some had just a sour attitude.

       My question is, are you from the same group that I consider trolling and hurting those that wanted to go into some ministry, or were you from that group that had an open mind to what God may have had planned?

       I graduated from 09, and obtained masters in 10.

       Do I agree with GSBC entirely, no way.

       1. Aren’t you just so very special.

          1. You think I’m bragging about my unaccredited degrees? No one can pretend to say that they stayed out of trouble if they didn’t in bible college. While I empathize those that had a legitimate desire to pursue the will of God, there are some who were malicious from the beginning and really had no basis for their complaints.

          2. Having just read his Employee Handbook, read other messages to his staff, and listened to some of his sermons, I can declare with confidence that Jack Treiber is the leader of the pack when it comes to “malicious from the beginning and really had no basis” for much of anything he says or does.

             You say you disagree with him, yet you defend him. Weakly. By throwing the usual canards at those who criticize him for his bad behavior and unbiblical demands/pronouncements.

             Make up your mind.

       2. Disagreeing with a control-fiend pastor does not make one a rebel. Bible colleges like GSBC are fake societies ruled by religious tyrants. Rebelling against that garbage is a good thing.

          I have actually raised my children to spot legalism like that quickly. They would not last a week at such a “skool” I am happy to say.

          1. One more thing, Mike: Your post defies logic.

             Truth stands on its own, regardless of the source.

             Even someone you consider a college rebel, can bring up legitimate problems.

             Either the church wasted tithes and offerings on expensive pianos, or they didn’t.

             Either Trieber reported Strouf to the police, or he didn’t.

             Either Trieber harasses the membership to give more and more and more because of his over-spending, or he doesn’t.

             Questioning the worthiness of the person making the complaint is a non sequitur.

          2. Attacking the critic is very common in IFBx circles, and serves to distract from the real issue.

             A lot of criticisms may be 90% true, but those defending the one being attacked will focus on the 10% of the things that were inaccurate – for a recent example, look at Linda Hyles Murphrey’s talk: most of the criticism of her was focussed in three areas: (1) Her statement of 50,000 members (2) Her statement that her father owned it all, and (3) Her statement that he left everything to his organization.

          3. I agree with the Pianos. I was stunned to hear about how elaborate the acquisition was for those four pianos. I was also stunned by the deficit that they hold. It’s definitely big spending compared to younger and smaller churches.

             I look at how I want to teach my children. I found truth by testing it, and I remember reading about the textus receptus, and the dynamic and formal equivalent approach to scripture translations. I made a choice when I was young to step out of my old southern baptist church because they were not promoting the Christian life that Jesus wanted. Not saying all IFB churches are perfect, I’m just saying that I arrived to truth because I wanted the truth. I’m starting to ramble, but I know that some were hurt from these churches, including myself.

             But let’s not use that as a cause to not life to the highest degree in our Christian testimony. I’ve seen so many here say “yeah I’ve been there, done that.” So where are they at now? Are we still striving for the work commissioned unto us?

             Paul put it best, and I would say his statement still unifies us when we read Phil 1:18.

          4. Hey, Mike; I think that there any many, good IFB churches out there. I don’t agree with those who rank all IFB churches as cults. What’s not to like about a church that focuses on the fundamentals of the faith and what the Bible says?

             Many of the churches featured here are building up a leader or trying to make a name for themselves, and not lifting up Jesus Christ.

          5. Mike wrote, “But let’s not use that as a cause to not life [sic] to the highest degree in our Christian testimony. I’ve seen so many here say “yeah I’ve been there, done that.” So where are they at now? Are we still striving for the work commissioned unto us?”

             How do you know who is or is not “striving for the work commissioned unto us”?

             After examining the things I was taught at the IFBx church, I left. I would have been disobedient to God to stay in a place that I knew was teaching error.

             Pointing out the problems and errors in such churches is not against God. My testimony should be one of always seeking truth, not just obeying the pastor-man.

    3. So he spent $2 million on white pianos, and then raised a howl about how the church was short of funds?

       Classic.

       1. I thought the 4 pianos combined were $500k, but I could be wrong.

          Regardless, it was ridiculous to use waste tithes and offerings on such vanities. They could have bought some nice Kawai or Yamaha brand pianos for much less. Probably 95-98% of the congregation would not be able to tell the difference anyway.

          1. BTW, Lancaster Baptist Church made a similar stupid piano purchase

    4. Amen! Every word you wrote rings true, sad but true….Thank God He has brought you out, and may use whatever you experinced at NVBC, whether good or bad, for your good and His Glory!

       1. Above comment meant for EliACas.

36. “But if you only knew how hard we work to make sure there is enough to cover your salary, health insurance, and worker’s compensation only to receive little to no performance, it is very disturbing.”

    Are they paid to teach school or to go soul-winning? He makes it sounds like doing the job they were actually hired and paid to do is of no value.

37. There should be a IFB workers union to stop employer threats like this.

    1. Reading your name/handle made my day. That is fantastic.

       1. thanks. I thought of it when I was at HAC about 8 years ago. Im glad I finally get to use it.

    2. A union might work, just as long as we consult with our Pastor(tm) before filing a complaint with the union steward.

38. A long time ago, in a state far, far, away (specifically, California), I worked for a now-defunct computer game company. One Monday, we all got called in for a meeting by our boss, who delivered a blistering lecture about how when he stopped by on Sunday, only half the parking lot was full. Now, at this time, we were all regularly working 12+ hours a day, 6 days/week. He was angry because only around half of us also showed up on Sunday.

    We self-justified this kind of abuse because we had a cool job where we could keep toys in our cubicle. (I now work a very dull financial applications programming job, but I do it from home, so I not only have toys in my cubicle, but cats.)

    How do the people at this church justify putting up with this? Do they get to have cool toys in their cubicles? If not, what?

    1. Because it’s required of them to attend those soulwinning meetings and go soulwinning afterward, according to the staff handbook. They don’t have them sign in or anything, but if alot of the staff members don’t continue to attend, I would not be surprised that the staff will then be required to sign in.

39. I am not sure what is more troubling to me: the fabrication of a dogma from a proof-texted(is this a verb?), misunderstood phrase out of the king james translation -OR- the fact that these ceo “pastors” so blatantly twist what is just supposed to be a lifestyle of sharing goodnews by the believer and tying it directly to some bottom line and revenue goal.

    What about people whom God maybe plans to share love to their nieghbor by just maybe mowing their lawn for them? Or maybe having a positive attitude at a crappy job that becomes infectious? For the fundy- feuer there appaerently is no lattitude for such!

40. I want NUMBERS! NUMBERS!! Does he have a background in used car sales?

41. Pastor Trieber never sends emails. He doesn’t even use a computer, that’s the reality. I would ask the source if this was dictated. Better yet, identify himself because I went to college there and I know some are trolls. Not saying I’m defending the guy, but let’s keep this in perspective and be objective toward this.

    1. I think you are almost certainly correct. Some of the language in his Staff Handbook clearly indicates that someone else wrote it…unless he is in the habit of referring to himself in the third person.

    2. It is possible he tasks someone else with sending his emails, and simply dictates.

42. The entire church staff gets a day off during the week…meaning that Pastor Trieber requiring them to be at the Saturday meetings is totally acceptable and within the bounds of his leadership role. How many of you could keep your jobs if you told your boss that you wouldn’t be at work on any scheduled workday?

43. Update: The man has a blog! Sorry to say but, this e-mail is definitely ‘Trieber speak’ as I’ve always heard. You can be certain he had someone else send it out.

    He’s said from the pulpit that his first boss/pastor told him; if he didn’t produce one soul saved a week that he shouldn’t pick up his paycheck!

    The staff know what is expected of them when they sign on, so if that’s what he requires, they have to comply. It’s as simple as that in the Trieber’s Kingdom!

44. Pastor Trieber had every right to send a memo like this to his staff. If you had a job and did not show up you also would be looking for a new position. He is being much kinder than most employers. He is there himself. What is your beef with him.

    1. Much kinder than most employers? You really should get out more.

    2. Let’s see how many cult practices we can find in Jacks letter using this analytical tool shall we?

       http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_articles/langone_michael_checklis.htm

       Be honest now, how’d he do? I’d say his cult score is pretty high. Now, step back and take a look at his over all ministry and his cult score pretty much pegs the meter.

       This letter is about control and making sure everyone recoginzes Jack is the one calling the shots, it is his ministry, his church and his staff. This is the problem with the one man tuler template. This is Lord Acton’s Axiom in living color.

       Lord Acton’s axiom can be found in this article:
       http://persifler.wordpress.com/2010/04/12/corruption-is-directly-proportional-to-the-level-of-control-that-is-available/

       1. “one man ruler template”

          -thanks george 🙄

          1. “one man tuler template” that’s Trieber + Ruler = Tuler!….Read the list, from someone who’s been there, it was 100%!

             21st Century Christians, esp.Fundamental Baptists, need to be educated on the early church’s plurality of elders church government. There was accountablity that balanced the authorities in the ministry. IFBers balk at this, and have their own interpretation. Thus, the ‘dictator’ lone pastor has been the accepted, and believed to be correct, way of setting up church government. There is a better way, and it’s not the IFB way. It is God’s biblical plan!

    3. If my boss sent me a letter saying they expected me to show up for unpaid, after-hours, work, without some compelling reason and a strong sense that they’d be extremely grateful for me putting in extra effort (and reward me appropriately when possible), I’d be royally pissed and start sending out my resume. It’s one thing for a company with a tight release date to have “crunch time” and an expectation of extended hours to meet a goal; it’s another thing when “voluntary” actions, such as “soul winning”, become mandatory when they’re not a part of the actual job description.

    4. I’m fairly certain it’s not even legal what he’s expecting of employees, let alone kinder than other employers.

45. Where is Christ-likeness in any of these post? One word comes to mind when I read these post “bitterness”. The hate being spewed out in your comments is very discouraging. It is a sad day in Christianity when a Pastor can’t email his own staff without it becoming news to critics. When I read this email I hear the heart of a Pastor wanting to reach his community and set an example for his church members. If his staff is unwilling to help in setting this example, does he not have the right to address this issue? Shame on the disloyal staff member that shared this email. If this person is unhappy or disloyal, is he right to stay and cause division?

    1. Certainly, I can think of nothing less Christ-like than publicly calling out religious leaders for hypocrisy.

       7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

       8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

    2. The whole problem can be summed up with your own words, His Staff.
       When you have a single dictator over a religious business enterprise then heavy handed, ego building emails like this are the natural outcome. Clearly he is accountable to no one and he makes it clear that all recipients of his memo answer to him.
       Trieber is the modern Diotrephes.

    3. So, Pastor Trieber, now you’re blogging under the name Bwwebster?

    4. BINGO! And/or poe. Seriously, though, did you think through your position before posting it?

       1. Of course there was no thought before posting. No thought is necessary as long as there is a mog to think for you.

          Don’t you know that Hebrews 13:17 proof-texts to “the mog is always right”?

46. Don’t know when this e-mail was sent, but the demands to see all the “numbers” in all the ministries go up, may have alot to do with the struggle to support his money-pit of a church. Apparently, the members can’t support it well enough, because a recent fund raising goal was met by many non-member supporters from outside the church. And, there’s a special monthly collection to keep the college afloat.

    If the staff isn’t out there setting an example to the members, then the members slack off, then the numbers slack off, then potential new members aren’t being brought in, and the offering plates don’t get filled.

    It’s expensive to run a mega IFB church and college! Just ask poor Jack(stressed out)Schaap!

47. It is amazing how many of the post I have read are critical of Jack Trieber yet guilty of the very thing they criticize him for. I cannot answer for Fundamentalism as a whole but I can answer for my Independent Baptist Church. I have never met a more caring man than my Pastor. His compassion for people is inspiring. We have strong convictions based on very clear Biblical principles. Christianity has become so watered down and worldly today. Christians today give less of themselves to God than ever before and yet we are content with that. We sprinkle God into our lives and think we have accomplished something. God does not just deserve a “spot” in our lives, our lives are to be “hid with Christ in God.” He deserves all that we have, all that we are. Some men and churches have given Fundamentalism a bad name, and what a shame that is, but I am a Fundamentalist and stand on everything that Fundamentalism is supposed to stand on…The Word of God. I don’t try to fit it in to my life, I try (with God’s help) to fit my life into it.

    1. What are you doing on a website like this anyway, bwwebster? Dr. Trieber would not be very happy with you! Are you the NVBC watchdog?

       Dr. Trieber definitely has good intentions and is a moral Christian. Sadly, much of what you are extolling him for is what Dr. Jack Hyles’ followers said/say about him. And sadly again, it is Jack Hyles that Pastor Trieber has fashioned his way of ministering, church growth, unbiblical church discipine methods, pastor-hero worship, completely after. Depending on how old you are, and how long you’ve been at NVBC, you may not know to what extent Dr. Trieber has embraced the dictatorial, unbiblical teachings of the late Dr. Hyles, esp. in the area of the role of the pastor (Also, the decades of scandal cover-ups that were Hyles-influenced at NVBC would make your heart break!).

       Did you hear Dr. Trieber’s sermon, The Pastor Is My Shepherd? If you’ve heard it and think nothing wrong with it, then my friend, you need to get into the Bible and find out what IS wrong with it! NVBC even removed it from their website!

       Please, please, if you are planning to comment in the future, omit the words “bitter and bitterness” from your vocabulary. It has become a joke to non-fundies that no matter the “proof” of abuse, legalism (using correct definition, not fundie definition) false teachings, etc. in IFBdom, that IFBx’ers still cry “bitterness” when non-fundies send up a ‘red flag’ of warning!

       It’s proof to me that the younger generation at NVBC is hip to what’s being exposed on the internet about IFB pastors and churches, and it’s not good publicity. They know it, they keep abreast of what’s out there on the web. Perhaps, this will be an eye opener to them that IFBdom can not continue to survive as it’s been programed by it’s past leaders in this computer age. Too much info gets out there for fundies to read and learn from, and getting harder for some to stay in the fundie bubble.

       It’s not about following a man/pastor, it’s about following Jesus!

48. Show me in the Bible where it says you have to arrive for church activities 15 minutes early to show how much you love God and be a cheerleader at said activity and I’ll give Trieber a pass.

    People should stop standing on fundamentalism and start standing on Jesus. Jesus never calls us to be cheerleaders.

49. Service to God…

    Strong arm style.

50. Whatever happened to getting on your knees and poring your concerns out to Him and letting Him take care of it.

    1. No, no, no…their “gid” needs to be helped in dealing with human concerns because he is rather weak, frail, and slow moving sometimes. Besides, the M-O-g is much better equipped to handle these matters. The M-O-g is on-site and can make decisions faster thus getting more done. 🙄

       😥

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