Preachers

E-mails From Pastors: Jack Trieber Edition

357 Comments

The following e-mail has come into my possession from someone who reports that it was sent to all the staff members at North Valley Baptist Church by none other than Jack Trieber. You may remember Trieber from his previous appearance on SFL when he preached that “the Pastor is your shepherd“.

Dear Staff,

Another strange phenomenon has been taking place this summer, and it is one that is very distressing to me personally.

Mrs. Trieber and I have been attending the Tuesday evening soul winning meetings; and as usual, I am out at the Saturday morning program. The strange thing is that I see a vast majority of our staff at neither one of these events. Something is drastically wrong. Of course, I am certain that all of you enjoy having health insurance and benefits all summer long; and for those of you who work over the summer, you also enjoy your salary. But quite frankly, it is very upsetting to me to see the lack of love for the cause of Christ. I know that devotion and heart shows up in September, but that is way too late. I want this remedied immediately. I do not want emails or letters apologizing for actions—I want performance. Instead of asking for an apology, I would suggest falling on your knees and asking God to forgive you for a lazy spirit towards the things of Christ. Please let me know if this is not going to fit in your plans so I can help you make plans for another place of ministry. This is perhaps one of the strongest letters I have ever written to our staff. But if you only knew how hard we work to make sure there is enough to cover your salary, health insurance, and worker’s compensation only to receive little to no performance, it is very disturbing. I am expecting a huge change. I want it to be evident in our bus numbers,
soul winning numbers, baptisms, and salvations.

As I speak about attending these soul winning meetings, I do not believe you ought to be showing up right on the wire. You ought to be there as paid employees helping to create a spirit of excitement 10-15 minutes before these meetings. It is like a ghost town when I show up to these meetings—that is certainly not acceptable.

Consider this as a strong rebuke. I imagine some of you could take this to the HR department; but friend, this is the way the rules have always been at this church. Read your handbook. For some of you, I believe it might be very wise that you considered moving on. For others, and it might be very wise if you considered falling on your knees and confessing to God about your slothful spirit. For those who have been sold-out in these meetings and soul winning efforts, I commend you. Thank you for being faithful so many times when those around you have not been. I am looking forward to seeing a change this Saturday and next Tuesday. God bless you.

Your friend,

Pastor

Do you have an e-mail or a letter from a fundamentalist pastor or institution? Feel free to send it along.

357 thoughts on “E-mails From Pastors: Jack Trieber Edition”

    1. You know there’s a vague rule that covers any situation that comes up that the pastor wants to exercise his authority over – the spirit of the law/letter of the law thing.

  6. At least he didn’t tell people they should fall on their knees and confess and ask for forgiveness from him.

    What a tool. I feel for those that are trapped in such a situation.

    1. Maybe they won’t be trapped for long. The not-so-subtle threat to cut their salary and benefits will probably have the effect of prompting some departures. I hope. 😐

    2. I was surprised about that too. Usually fundy preachers scare you to death about “being right” with every person you have “wronged” or potentially accidentally wronged. I apologized recklessly to many people for all kinds of crazy things over the years so that God would forgive me. I think having a MOG tell me not to apologize would have created a lot of turmoil wondering if God could forgive me since I hadn’t made things right with the person first.

  7. Are they supposed to show up because of devotion to God, or because it’s in their job description? It doesn’t seem right to call it both.

    2. Is this e-mail from trieber for real, or satire. Sometimes it’s impossible to tell.

  8. There is nothing more indicative of Biblical spirituality than paid employees stirring up excitement. Somehow, I missed that part about the sons of the prophets.

  9. It’s somewhat surprising that he rebuked them rather than just firing them outright. Cracks in the hegemony he exerts over the leadership perhaps?

    1. Yeah, hardly. The school year has already begun. He needs some time to find new teachers and other staff members.

    1. Yep, this was the first thing I looked at when the “rebuke” started. How did he sign. “Your friend”?!?! Really? After that I wouldn’t even grace you with the title frenemy!

  12. Huh. This doesn’t look any differently than what I would expect from a secular boss if his paid employees were not fulfilling their job duties, so my panties remain unbunched.

    1. I’ve never had a secular employer tell me that my lack of job performance was demonstrating “lack of love for the cause of Christ” and then tell “suggest falling on your knees and asking God to forgive you for a lazy spirit towards the things of Christ.”

      It’s not exactly the same.

      1. From my perspective, the biggest dilemma here is that he is expecting an assembly-line solution to a spiritual problem. William Carey labored for years in India before seeing a single convert. You can’t mandate “soul winning numbers, baptisms, and salvations”.
        Not genuine results. . .and I’m sure that no one under the pressure of losing their job would EVER be tempted to fudge their numbers. 😯

        1. The phrase of the day:
          You can’t mandate “soul winning numbers, baptisms, and salvations”.

          That needs to be made into a tract, using that phrase as the title, to exchange with folks who hand out Chick Tracts and such.

        2. ” You can’t mandate “soul winning numbers, baptisms, and salvations”.”

          Wanna bet?

          You sure can try if you are a fundy mannogid!

          The employees he was referring to were not even being paid over the summer…just keeping benefits. But this mannogid still thinks he owns them.

      2. You mean you’ve never gotten a letter from your employer saying, “I am highly distressed that you are not participating in all the after hours functions the company has scheduled. I’m sure that you enjoy the comfort and security that all the benefits the company supplies you affords. It would be a shame to lose them because you are not attending every function we have scheduled”?

        Your friend,
        Pastor Don Corleone

        1. I did have an executive vice president tell our union-represented employees we shouldn’t be concerned about the 22% cut in pay and benefits and should find the reason we come to work every day.

          I explained that the main reason I came to work every day was the paycheck, and if he didn’t want his, I’d gladly take his salary and put it to good use.

        2. That is the same reason that Executive VP comes to work as well, for the pay check. That is the number 1 reason people get up, and come to work. If there is no paycheck what incentive is there to show up?
          That is the greatest failure in Professionalized Churchianity, “Corporate run Churches: The Business of Religion.”

        3. (dangit george get off the keyboard I wasn’t finished)
          Meaning that “The church” (lowercase c) today is ran like a business rather than a ministry. It has become the business of church rather than the ministring of Christlike believers to one another and the world around them.

    2. No secular employer would expect his employees to show up to work on Sunday morning, Sunday evening, Tuesday evening, Wednesday evening, and Saturday morning while only paying them for the normal M-F workday, and berate them for the horrific behavior of spending time with their families rather than hanging out with their Dear Leader…and all of this for a salary of maybe $385 per week. Since these people can easily work 72 hours per week if they do everything their “pastor” demands of them, that works out to a cool $5.34 per hour.

      Yeah, you make a really good point, there, Sparky.

      And let us not forget that he puts the full responsibility for peoples’ salvation squarely on his staff. God apparently has nothing to do with it; salvation is purely a function of how many hours these ingrates spend out on visitation.

      Perhaps your panties remain unbunched because you have your head shoved firmly up there, blocking the panties from bunching.

      Sheesh.

        3. Don’t back down because they throw some harsh language your way Stony. Only do so if you’ve changed your mind because of the argument.

          I’m ignorant of the ‘hand book’ so I don’t know what the ‘staff’ agreed to or who they are. Are they just pastors? When they took the job, was it in their contract to attend the evening events in question a certain number of times out of the year? If so, then they need to live up to it.

          Our church puts into the contract of pastors a certain number of Sundays they can miss. This seemed weird to me, but when I asked about it, I was told it wasn’t a set in stone legalism. Instead, it was intended to be there in case someone was clearly neglecting their duties that they agreed to, there would be some ‘teeth’ if intervention was needed.

          I think this guy went about it all wrong, and his demand that people ‘beg God’s forgiveness’ because they are enjoying their summer is ridiculous. However, I don’t have enough information to make a call as to whether he has a legitimate gripe or not.

        4. HAHAhahahaha!

          Well-played, boymom.

          No worries, Stony.

          Can I assume you’ve never been in a family that worked for one of these churches? If no, then thank God for blessing you abundantly. I think many people have absolutely no idea what is demanded of these people. It is WAAAAAAY worse than any secular employer. In fact, after watching how my parents were treated, I swore that I would never work for a church for pay…would never be beholden to such people for my livelihood.

          And my pastor/church were nowhere near as bad as some.

        5. MSK, I have 20+ years in an industry that expects 24/7 availability and for folks to keep up their various certifications and licenses on their own time, on their own dime. I’m expected to travel weekends at times, and yes, attend various functions, and yes, I’ve had my commitment called into question. But I get paid a dang good salary, and I get paid vacation and sick leave. Folks get worked into the ground at times, but there are plenty of options as it’s a big field. And we get to speak out against the crap companies. That’s totally different than what this post is about.

          I was married into a mog family, that’s the closest I got to this. So my experience does not equate, and I shouldn’t have commented.

          I also have gone further “out” than many on this board have or ever will (which is fine, every one to his own path), so I only look back on this as The Business of Religion, which may be more cynical than is warranted. I did not take into account the folks that truly want to serve, and are trying to get by, and are being worked into the ground for a pittance.

          So my apology stands.

          And boymom….well played, chica, well played. 😀

  13. This letter reminded me of a scene from Team America.

    Kim Jong Il: Hans Brix? Oh no! Oh, herro. Great to see you again, Hans!
    Hans Blix: Mr. Il, I was supposed to be allowed to inspect your palace today, but your guards won’t let me enter certain areas.
    Kim Jong Il: Hans, Hans, Hans! We’ve been frew this a dozen times. I don’t have any weapons of mass destwuction, OK Hans?
    Hans Blix: Then let me look around, so I can ease the UN’s collective mind. I’m sorry, but the UN must be firm with you. Let me in, or else.
    Kim Jong Il: Or else what?
    Hans Blix: Or else we will be very angry with you… and we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are.

  14. Dear MOG,
    I apologize for not attending your soulwinning thingy, I was busy with my own soulwinning program of building a relationship with my unsaved neighbor, unfortunately that program has a scheduling conflict with your program. Please let me know which one takes priority.

    1. Or~

      Dear MOg,

      Sorry I couldn’t attend your soul winning thingy. I was busy coaching my son’s little league baseball team. In the future, I will refrain from:
      *spending time with my son,
      *being a light and Christian example to young men and women,
      *building relationships with their families

      I will therefore be joyfully and enthusiastically present to knock on doors and pass out tracts at your soul winning thingy. I will now fall to my knees and beg forgiveness.

      What a blessing to have a pastor so in tune with the Holy Spirit and takes the time to set my heathen derriere on the right path.

      1. Yeah, he doesn’t want letters or emails back because he doesn’t want to deal with it, or he can’t handle it. Coward. Your letters, though, are awesome.

      2. He doesn’t want letters of self-justification and apology; he wants things to change. That is the best apology.

        He went about this completely wrong, but I understand the “I don’t want apologizing; I want performance” thing. If someone who works for me is late by 10-40 minutes habitually, I don’t want some lame excuse or apology — I want him to show up on time. That’s probably all he meant here, and we shouldn’t read more into it than that.

  15. Performance Churchianity just like they did it in the early Church eh? I’m sure Paul wrote just such a letter to the churches he was getting enough support from as well. This letter clearly shows the god that is wor$hipped by this pa$tor.

    Here we see the results of Finney’s man centered decisional theology married up with the corporation approach to church administration. It is all about numbers and money.

    I am expecting a huge change. I want it to be evident in our bu$ number$,
    $oul winning numbers$ baptism$, and $alvation$.

    Number$ = $alvation of $oulwinner$ Salarie$

    2. And this, ladies and gentleman, is something I had a problem with even while I was there as a student, let alone now, after I’ve left Protestantism entirely.

    3. You nailed it, it’s all about numbers. Our pastor determined success based on how the offering looked on Sunday morning and how many visitors did we con into attending the service. I questioned why we ran our church like a business and I was told that every church has a business side and a spiritual side. Just like a secular business, sales must increase month to month and year to year or you get replaced with someone who can get the job done. Needless to say I didn’t make the numbers!! 😀

      1. Yep, we teachers at my Christian school currently have a requirement (added from the pulpit, not written in the contracts) that we have to bring at least 5 visitors per year (non-related visitors on differing Sundays, any size family counts as ONE) or else we get fired. Nothing like conning visitors into giving up a Sunday morning just to keep your job!

  16. “And Jack said unto them, Thou shalt love thy bus route with all thy time, with all thy candy, and with all thy gimmicks. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor’s door and hang many tracts upon it” Hyles 22:37-39

    1. “Ye have heard that it has been said, Thou shalt love thy bus route with all thy time, with all thy candy, and with all thy gimmicks and Thou shalt love thy neighbor’s door and hang many tracts upon it” But I add unto you, Love all of this better than thyself or thy family.” Treiber 18:12

    2. N-o-w… I see Darrell’s hovertext. What can I say, great minds think alike.

      …so-o-o how does that explain my posting nearly the same thing as our benevolent dictator?

      (pssst, what else did you want me to say?)

      Oh yeah, Darrell’s a great guy.

      1. Well, yes it is actually. (in little g form)….you said it quite well in your $$$$ post. This man has many gods apparently and, sadly, therefore has no God. (1st Commandment) But, I know what you mean. BTW, I am fairly new and haven’t read your back story, if you have posted, but I would love to hear it. I respect your posts greatly.

        2. I’m glad I asked, thank you! I went to college (if you can call it that without laughing hysterically) in Lattimore, NC at Ambassador. The “teachers” there also “pastor” several different “churches” in NC.

          I also didn’t know about that Forum, so thank you for that great resource. Love this place!!

    2. Reminds me of the teacher conference I attended four years ago for all the teachers of Catholic schools in an entire Archdiocese. At the end, the archbishop cursed and berated us for ten minutes then asked us to stand and receive his blessing before we went home. Those chairs moved really slowly.

    3. I found it strange that he signed it “Your Friend, Pastor.” So formal. Why not “your friend Jack” or something like that.

      1. I may have an answer to that: in our IFB church, no one was allowed to call the pastor by his first name. (Couldn’t call his wife by her first name either.) We were to call him “Pastor.” No exceptions – even for those who were older than he was.

        1. I would have preferred it had he signed it Pastor Trieber. Just putting Pastor looks weird. It’s an honorific not a first name.

      2. Here is the answer about “Pastor” from our old friend BULL GIPP:

        Call your pastor, “Pastor” – He’s not “Bob” or “Pastor Bill.” I don’t care what that devil Rick Warren told you, he is called of God to do what he’s doing. Even your doctor isn’t called of God.
        Again, we Americans are so sold on “all men are created equal” that we hate the thought that anyone could be above us socially. (Except maybe your favorite sports idiot.) Well, your pastor is more important than you are. God called him. If you just went through a mental list of his deficiencies it just shows you’re rebellious against God and disrespectful for someone He has chosen. No, your pastor isn’t perfect. No, he isn’t always right. But he is there for you & your family and is far more important to your family than some Nomex-suited NASCAR driver! No basketball player will be there to help your child like your pastor will. (Your favorite movie star would spit in your pastor’s face. Which would you side with then?) Not even a “Gospel singer” was chosen to feed you from the Bible every week. Don’t “chew’im up and spit’im out” when he makes you mad. (If he’s doing his job he will make you mad.) I didn’t say you have to worship him. You don’t even have to love him. But you should appreciate him and not kill him when he makes you mad.

        There is no organization you’re associated with that is more important than your church. Other organizations were started by men. This one was started by God. You should hold it higher than any other organization in your mind, heart and actions.

        excerpted from http://www.samgipp.com/essays/?page=63.htm

        This shows the pastoral elitism that has taken over the pulpits in the IFB. In fact there is a Church Administration/philosophy that states a Pastor should not have any really close friends in his congregation. Many IFB preacher-boy courses actually teach that. Familiarity breeds comtempt, so in order to not lose that air of superiority and authority a pastor should not have any reall close personal friends in the congregation.

        Personally I have been told to leave a conversation because I was not a pastor and I could not understand the burden a pastor carries. And like a good kool-aide swilling cult member I excused myself. I can promise you that that will never happen again, not without me putting the sanctimonious prig, who says that to me, in his place.
        /rant
        * leaves soapbox with an awesome verbal ninja dismount

        1. Our “pastor” actually said that to the congregation – he would have no personal friends in the congregation, and neither would he allow his wife to have any. I’m not sure who their friends were, since he always made a point to say that he was the only Gospel-preaching man in a 30-mile radius.

        2. I applaud your dismount and sit in disbelief at your excerpt. At my old church, Gipp came to preach…once. Even they had the sense to keep that man away! We called our pastor “Pastor (last name).” At my new church, we call our several pastors “Pastor (first name)” or just their first name. They are approachable.

  19. “Mrs. Trieber and I have been attending the Tuesday evening soul winning meetings; and as usual, I am out at the Saturday morning program.” — It sounds as if he usually attends Saturday but not Tuesday. I wonder if his subordinates will be allowed to pick one or the other or must they attend both?

  20. Let’s see:

    Passive aggressive note shotgunned to everyone in hopes of hitting intended target – Check
    Guilt manipulation – Check (on so many levels)
    Contrived atmosphere of excitement – Check
    “If you don’t like it, leave” challenge – Check
    Nod to the faithful minions – Check
    Complete lack of a desire to communicate personally with absentee members to find out what is going on – Check.
    Sanctimonious sign off invoking the name of God – Check.

  21. *sigh* Perhaps the low summer attendance bothers him because it tells him that his high attendance during the school year isn’t due to his great leadership of the church, but to his holding their salary and benefits over their heads.

  22. Thoughts on how the staff can create excitement 10-15 minutes beforehand:

    1. Introduction of the soul winning starting lineup. Every good team gets pumped when their starters are announced.

    2. Reassure everyone that God will eventually smite them with cancer or with a bolt of lightning if they don’t win somebody to the LORD that day.

    3. Have a dance party and only play the song “Call Me Maybe.” I know this one is a stretch, but it will definitely boost morale.

    4. Create a win-the-most-souls contest, where the winner receives a white piano, a Lexus, and immunity from getting fired if they get caught having sex with someone under age.

    5. Have a guy from the X Games come and jump your fleet of buses. The people will love it, and it will motivate them to fill those same buses with unsaved children from families who aren’t in the same tax bracket as them.

    6. Have a San Francisco 49er come and give a “Save One for the Gipper” motivational speech.

    That’s all I got. I hope this boosts morale and creates an environment of excitement. Bam.

    1. Great list. I love that #3 “is a stretch,” but the other ones, including a veritable get out of jail free card for illicit under-age sex, aren’t also “a stretch.” So funny.

      They could also consider wearing some type of uniform. Maybe they could borrow Jack Schaap’s suit that he wore while polishing his shaft?

    2. “4. Create a win-the-most-souls contest, where the winner receives a white piano, a Lexus, and immunity from getting fired if they get caught having sex with someone under age.”

      An entirely realistic scenario for North Valley Baptist Church.

    1. Dear Persnickety Polecat:

      No. God isn’t on his staff. GREAT line though! I love it!

      Christian Socialist

  25. Come on guys. Stop criticizing this email. I am thankful for reading this. Apparently, I can’t go soulwinning UNLESS it’s a Tuesday night or Saturday morning! I thought while being in line at Peet’s Coffee or eating at Panera Bread was a good time to share my faith with those who are lost. HOW WRONG I WAS! I will never again witness unless it’s on a Tuesday night or Saturday morning, even if someone says to me, “What must I do to be saved?” while in the leadership books section of Barnes & Noble on a Thursday night! Even though Tuesday and Thursday both start with a “T,” obviously Thursday nights are nothing but sheep in wolf’s clothing, or something like that.
    Lord, forgive me for thinking Matthew 6 would have applied in this situation. It’s now obvious to me I can only go soulwinning when others see me, so that God can truly bless me with a salary and health insurance. In Jack’s name, amen.

    :mrgreen:

  27. Now is this a business or a Ministry?
    Is this guy a CEO or a Pastor?
    Is this a Church body or a M-O-g’s Empire?
    Is this about people receiveing the gospel or the Church receiving people’s money?
    Is this about Christ or the Pastor’s $alary?

    Where is Christ in this letter other than a being a tool to be used to increase the numbers?

    Jeremiah 10:21 “For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.”

    Jeremiah 23:1-2 “Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture!” declares the Lord. 2 Therefore thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, concerning the shepherds who care for my people: “You have scattered my flock and have driven them away, and you have not attended to them. Behold, I will attend to you for your evil deeds, declares the Lord.”

  28. It grieves me when I think back to the time in Fundy world where soul-winning only was happening in programmatic times. I felt so good about my self when I went across town, to people I didn’t know,or have any connection with and forced my way into their evening by showing-up unannounced. Then forcing them to keep listening to me till they got “saved” or slammed the door. All this while I never knew the guy next door that I could have developed a relationship with and made a difference in his life.

  29. “I am expecting a huge change. I want it to be evident in our bus numbers,soul winning numbers, baptisms, and salvations.”

    Because we have to keep on getting more butts in the seats so we can pay you your pittance and look good in the eyes of other churches.

  30. “I want . . . I want . . . I want . . . ”
    This is why I no longer believe in “Christian” employment. The economic concept of selling yourself to your employer, milking your employees for all they are worth, threatening termination if your standards are not met, etc., are tolerable (and expected) in the context of a secular corporation. They don’t transfer into a church context. Pastor is not the same as CEO; but when a system is set up where people are drawing salaries for job performance, and the pastor is their “boss,” then technically he has every right to treat them this way. Jesus was right–the world of economics and the church should be kept separate.
    If you can’t keep your church running through volunteer work, then your members just aren’t dedicated enough to whatever your cause is (perhaps with good reason). But the solution is not to turn your flock into paid employees.

    1. I think it would be possible to maintain paid church staff without this happening, but it would require that someone other than the pastor be the “boss”. Like, I don’t know, elders or a vestry or a denominational hierarchy or something. :mrgreen:

    2. I don’t agree, though it’s possible that you didn’t mean it as strongly as I understood it. In a secular job, you’re not selling yourself, you’re just selling your time. Your employer has no right to “milk their employees for all they’re worth”, because employees have a right to have a life outside of their work, and employers only and a right to a certain number of hours. And while an employer certainly has a right to expect the job they hired for to get done within certain standards, they don’t have a right to unreasonable or inhuman expectations. They don’t schedule “extracurricular” company-building events that employees are expected to attend with great enthusiasm even though they aren’t getting paid for it (or risk losing their job). Secular employers also don’t dictate to their employees what they will do with their own free time.

      If churches would take some hints from secular employers, working in churches might actually be more of a joy for more Christians instead of the trial it is for so many.

      1. true. I guess what I was getting at is that a secular employer has a right to be demanding and to fire you if you’re not behaving as they see fit. You can get fired for missing meetings, having unprofessional tattoos, or for being dumb on facebook. A coworker of my mom’s got fired for surreptitiously eating a cupcake on the job, in defiance of the “no food at your desk” rule. Basically, secular bosses have a right to be legalistic and picky about your behavior. They’re out to protect company profits, and if you don’t help them towards that goal, then they have every right to ditch you. But this pragmatic mentality does not translate into the church, which is supposed to be a loving, gracious family.
        Put another way: I had no problem wearing black pants and a green tshirt every day for the part time fast food job I worked this summer. But in a church staff type position, I would not be ok with this. There are no bosses, supervisors, and CEO’s in God’ kingdom: we are all on level ground at the feet of Christ.

        1. I see what you mean. It is sad when a place claiming to be a part of the church of Christ is unrecognizable from any number of abusive secular businesses except for religious jargon.

          For the short time that I worked for a fundy institution, any and all intrusions into my personal life and outright abuses were written off as just part of “the work of the ministry”, like it was some kind of privilege for me. Leaving work at work was never an option either, and my supervisor would sometimes call me at night to fuss at me about problems that could have so easily waited until I went to work the next day. Of course, if anyone ever complained about this system, they had a heart problem 🙄 . They always seemed so confused as to why people never wanted to work for them for long…

  31. Dear Pastor Jack Trieber:

    Greetings in the sacred name of our Lord Jesus Christ [Ro 16:3, 5, 7, 9, 10, 16; Ph 4:21; Col 4:12; Phile 1:23; Ja 1:1].

    This letter arises from distressing conversation among your staff this summer.

    We affirm your diligence in our meetings and activities. But we would be less than honest not to speak our concern that you appear to be straying from the truth [1Ti 1:6; Ja 5:19]. We therefore write to remind you of the Scriptural admonition to guard our hearts against unbelief [He 3:12; 4:11].

    Brother Jack: Scripture is clear that the salvation of the righteous is of the Lord [Ps 37:39; 68:19; 118:14; Is 12:2; Jon 2:9]. As staff, we are concerned that your teaching confers upon believers what belongs to God alone. We remind you that we contribute nothing to our salvation but the sin from which our God saves us.

    It is also clear from our Lord Jesus that reproof of sin, righteousness and judgment belongs to the ministry of the Spirit [Jo 16:8]. We agree that the bestowal of the Spirit gives us a share in this ministry. But we are concerned that you are forgetting that this ministry belongs none the less to the Holy Spirit, who alone gives life [Jo 6:63; Ro 8:6, 11; 2Co 3:6; Ga 6:8].

    We are glad to pay your salary and health insurance; but because we are a Christian church, we have a responsibility to see that ALL of our staff adheres to sound doctrine.

    While purporting to seek kingdom ends superficially, your concern with numbers, baptisms and ‘salvations’ bears in mind the work of faith, labor of love and steadfastness of hope [1Th 1:3] less than it does the mind of Christ [1Co 2:16]. Whereas we are taught NOT to conform to this world [Ro 12:1-2], our ministry of late reveals more commonality with Machiavellian pragmatism.

    We have another concern, Pastor Jack. Your expectation that we would create an ecstatic spirit in meetings seems contrary to the teaching of Paul who said that our confidence is NOT in fleshy wisdom but in holiness and godly sincerity [2Co 1:12], for we are not peddling God’s word [1Co 1:17]. We do not walk in craftiness but by manifesting the truth [2Co 4:2]. For faith rests not on our cleverness but on the power of God’s Spirit [1Co 2:3-5].

    We therefore admonish you to remember from where you have fallen [Re 2:5], and to return to the Shepherd, the Guardian of your soul [1Pe 2:25]. We call upon you, Pastor Jack, to teach those things fitting for sound doctrine [Ti 2:1] so that your deeds will be examples of good things [Ti 2:7] and show faith which glorifies God [Ti 2:10]. Remember that if you are to exhort in sound doctrine, you yourself must hold fast to faithful teaching [Ti 1:9]. 1Ti 6:3-5 speaks clearly to the spiritual condition which attends different doctrine that does not conform to godliness.

    Knowing Paul’s instruction to restore the erring gently [Ga 6:1], we remind you that when the Day of the Lord comes upon us, the earth and its works will be purged with burning fire [2Pe 3:10].

    We will be praying for you, brother Jack, so that you may be healed [Ja 5:16]. We ask that you come prepared to address these things at our next meeting.

    In Christ,

    Your Staff

    2. Please print this and send it to him. Pretty please. And Lord, please graciously open the eyes of Jack’s heart and draw him to You.

    5. This is brilliant! If only it could be sent, and if only he would read it in the Spirit intended… alas!

      My favourite part is “restore the erring gently…purged with burning fire.” Yep, that sounds like the right kind of “gentle” 😀

    6. Dear Used-to-be-Fundy, Eric, exOBCstudent, Tiffundy, Janet and Miriam [below].

      Thank you for the response.

      Your suggestion that this post be forwarded intrigues me. I may not be opposed to tidying up and so doing. But several things might be born in mind.

      Your suggestion intrigues me. I might not be opposed to tidying up the post and doing just that. But several things might be born in mind.

      That an unnamed ‘someone’ forwarded this communiqué to Darrell means that the email did spark some discussion [albeit guarded], and perhaps some consternation in the ranks of North Valley Baptist.

      The easy response is to email some version of this post to Pastor JT through the church website. This would result in a ‘who done it’ witch hunt. The increased pressure would likely result in increasingly erratic behavior by Pastor JT. Of course this is possible however the material is forwarded.

      But on the other hand, it may be that this is a conversation waiting and needing to happen at North Valley Baptist. The sinful nature is presently telling me to forward it to everyone who does not bear the last name, ‘Trieber.’ This could inject an amusing measure of paranoia into the picture. I think that integrity would require sending this as a letter to the entire staff as found on the website. At that point, ‘who done it’ becomes essentially moot, since the material is before the entire staff.

      There is also the question of Darrell’s source. This may be someone with no immediate connection to North Valley Baptist; but on the other hand, it could be a staff person. A few thoughts:

      1] If we were to proceed, it might be worth asking Darrell to confer with his source for an opinion as to whether this is ‘safe’ for him/her. If it is staff, and if this person is under suspicion for anything, such a letter wouldn’t help anything. If on the other hand this IS a staff person, it might be better to know NOTHING should [when?] the questioning starts.

      2] We might ask Darrell to expunge my post [and this discussion of it] from the board, lest anyone receiving the letter Google a phrase and find the source. This might well be brushed off as an outside prank. This would be used to minimize the import of the appeal.

      3] I’m not sure about this one; but it would seem odd if the staff of a church in Santa Clara, CA to receive a mailing from an Ohio address. This could result in another hunt for a staff person with roots in Ohio. Further, if each staff person receives the letter from various points across the country [Ohio, Maine, Arkansas, Vermont, Nevada, etc.] all postmarked within a day or so, the mystery is at once intensified.

      This raises questions in pastor JT’s mind as to how word of his actions carried so far and wide. It also suggests to the staff that there may be more support for them than they might suspect. Moreover, this also holds out the possibility that the original email and response TO it just MIGHT be published and disseminated to the North Valley Baptist membership at large.

      I personally tend to favor multiple sources as it might tend to make things less stable and predictable. The less context that such an action has, the harder it will be to divert attention from it. I’m assuming that those who cheered for sending this communication would be willing to print a tidier, revised post from their locality.

      I await the wisdom of the group. It’s what we socialists do.

      Christian Socialist

      1. Dear SFL Readers:

        Very sorry about the ‘doublespeak’ at the opening. Some day, I’ll learn that longer posts really should be done in a word processor, rather than trying to edit them in this tiny box. Sigh …

        Christian Socialist

        1. CS, ever since you joined SFL’s conversations I have fully enjoyed your posts, which seem to come from someone fully logical..a quality high on my admiration list!

    1. Unless we have a copy of “The Handbook” we can’t be sure of that. This sounds suspiciously like job description scope creep to me, a common occurrence with incompetent or avaricious employers. Time to take that invitation to “make plans for another place of ministry.”

      1. Yes, sometimes job requirements keep subtly changing or they think they’re covered by “attend all church functions” and those functions keep getting added on.

        But there’s another thing functioning here potentially. Young staff members truly may not know what to expect. It’s one thing to be a child in one of these churches, raised to believe that the truly spiritual people get involved in “full-time” ministry, eager and idealistic and ready to serve, and to be an adult with a marriage to nurture and babies coming along, and suddenly that contract you signed with such starry-eyed innocence now is more like shackles when you try LIVING by what you only IMAGINED as a young fundy U graduate.

        When you’re young, you assume a lot; you never imagine that a church or Christian school administration could use you up, body and soul. You think they have your best interests at heart so you gradually become more and more baffled and frustrated as you see that their constant demands on your time are causing stress and resentment in your family when it was supposed to bring joy and fulfillment. You think, it wasn’t supposed to be like this.

        1. Spot on. After graduation from Fundy U, my husband and I were never on staff at a church, but we were very involved. Since we had a child, I realized how much time and energy was being sapped from us. Now we’ve stopped all extra-curricular church activities, but even what we’re involved in during regular church time (choir, special music, nursery, security detail, Sunday School forms and offering) is draining and makes for a day of work, not rest. I’ve wondered many times when the joy of the Lord will come. Sometimes, I’m optimistic just thinking that one day we’ll be out and free. But then sometimes I have this fear that I’ll live my whole life as a miserable Fundy and my kids will grow up like I did — never feeling good enough, exhausted, and disillusioned. 🙁

        2. @Paisley

          When I was in your situation (no joy in what I was doing), I quit everything church related. I do mean everything. I knew I believed in Jesus. That was all I held to.

          Then I waited. I clung to the gospel as the basis for God’s love and acceptance of me, and I waited. Pretty soon, that new heart that comes w/ salvation began to long for scripture; so I read it. Then I began to miss being taught from the word; so I went to church. Later, I longed to give out what was filling up in me (joy, things I was learning from the bible, etc) so I volunteered for something.

          That’s just some things I did. I’m not sure what it would look like for you, but I’d recommend something. In Revelation 2:2-5 we read this,

          “I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false; 3 and you have perseverance and have endured for My name’s sake, and have not grown weary. 4 But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first”

          What does Jesus say to the hard working (vs. 2) Ephesians? You’ve left your first love. Repent and do what you did at first.

    2. Most of these employees never “sign up” for anything and only find out when it’s too late what they have been tricked into. I was sold on how great my job was going to be and how much time I was going to be able to spend with my family, and guess what, I ended up working seven days a week, going 2-3 month without a day off. And half a day does not count as having time off. These little dictators believe they can change the rules at any time and as usual those changes do not apply to themselves because they believe they are above the rules. The handbooks they produce aren’t worth the paper they are printed on, and if you ever read one you would understand how ignorant they really are to the Bible and it’s teachings. I have seen the agreements, handbooks, been in the meetings and they only thing that comes out of this are threats, manipulation, and pressure to do what the great mog tells you or else. I’ve seen a staff member scared into compliance by threats of dismissal and pay cuts or loss of priviliges. My former pastor tried to manipulate me and force me to do things that were not only wrong Biblically but were also illegal all in the name of the ministry. These are businesses and money is the name of the game. These little dictators own the staff, the members, and more importantly the deacons who bobble their heads yes everytime the king wants something. God is sadly absent in every aspect of these churches and the amount of power these kings yield is extremely dangerous. Thankfully I am now free, and I’m moving forward with my life!!!!

  34. I remember years ago when apparently it was a sin for staff to drive an Import. Trieber drove an Oldsmobile Aurora. It wasn’t too common at the time so it looked extra special. The deacons lease a car for him. Everyone drove American cars. One year in particular I remember the parking lot was a Jimmy, two Buicks, and a Dodge minivan. Then one year Trieber decided that Imports were ok. Maybe he realized “Imports” we’re actually built in America by American workers. Or maybe it was because the deacons upgraded his lease to a Lexus. Not long after that the parking lt changed- a Nissan Maxima, Honda Acord, Honda Odyssey, Nissan Quest. HILARIOUS!

    1. Remember SFL’s Fundy College Week some time back? I knew you would…

      These quotes from that week apply perfectly to this situation too. Just substitute North Valley Baptist Church for Fundy U and Staff for Students:

      “At Fundy U it is not only encouraged that the students do their good works before men to be seen of them, it’s downright required.”

      “Work for the night is coming and be sure to document your efforts well. It’s not like you have a choice and there may be a trophy in it for you.”

      North Valley Baptist Church staff (and Fundy U students too), there is life after Fundystan – and it is sweet!

    2. Our pastor used to ask the church ALL THE TIME to give him a Buick. It was . . . I thought . . . done tongue in cheek. But I never thought about the whole made-in-America issue. The pastor’s son-in-law worked for Ford. 😕

      1. Because of where we live, we make sure to drive American (used, of course!) We don’t want to put anything in the way of people coming to Christ, and this is people’s livelihood in this area.

  35. Oh I’m not going to miss those days of having to justifying your job (mine was volunteer) by the number of families you have brought in. Problem is they come in and someone will criticize the wife for wearing pants at the grocery store, they leave and you have to go get your tithing family count back up again.

    Not going to miss it at all!

  36. Remember SFL’s Fundy College Week some time back? I knew you would…
    These quotes from that week apply perfectly to this situation too. Just substitute North Valley Baptist Church for Fundy U and Staff for Students:
    “At Fundy U it is not only encouraged that the students do their good works before men to be seen of them, it’s downright required.”
    “Work for the night is coming and be sure to document your efforts well. It’s not like you have a choice and there may be a trophy in it for you.”
    North Valley Baptist Church staff (and Fundy U students too), there is life after Fundystan – and it is sweet!

  37. I was told my former pastor told new staff they had to bring in at least 10 new tithing families to justify their salary…

    Do you feel the love?

    How about the pragmatism?

    1. That is the day to quit. Perhaps after quitting, sending all the families a letter citing this. I can only hope he was dumb enough to leave a paper trail.

    3. I was told that on my first day at work. I should have left then, but I only lasted about six months anyway.

  40. To all the people who mentioned “corporate Christianity” and numbers games, you are dead on. This church is a business to this guy, and the Mannagawd reminds me of the manager of a Bennigans.

    “You don’t have enough flair” – Office Space

    To me, somebody who has made a hobby of sorts out of researching religions, this letter reminds me of some of the messages staff members would get from L. Ron Hubbard within Scientology….Hubbard once wrote “Make money. Make more money. Make other people produce so as to make more money” (“Principles of Money Management” 9th of March, 1972.) Hubbard also said “THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them.” (June 1952, in a lecture titled “Off the Time Track.”)

  41. I’m going to bottom-line this for you: The money is getting tight. Consider these parts of “Pastor” Treiber’s letter: he mentions repeatedly paying salary and benefits (if it were just about performance, i doubt he would talk about health and worker’s comp), and then talks about numbers of people.
    People are seeing these churches for what they are, and they’re staying away. That means they’re keeping their dollars away too.

  42. I was getting all geared up to write a response email, but Christian Socialist beat me to it. It’s fine work, and if you have not read it skip back up and do so.
    It should be mailed to “pastor” Trieber forthwith.

  43. Dear “Pastor,”
    Have a look. I even used KJV so I wouldn’t cause you to stumble.

    “For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee.”

    A single pastor of a church is not a biblical concept.

    “If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.”

    You’ve already failed. Your reputation is one of a harsh and unloving shepherd.

    “For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;”

    Your self-will is all over this letter. It evidences anger and striking out, as well as a greed for filthy lucre, which you apparently love so much that you use it as a tool to manipulate your staff. You’ll note that those sins are in the same list as drunkenness, which I’m sure you’ll agree is wicked.

    “But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;”

    Nothing in this letter shows love for your staff and their families, nor a sense of justice, holiness, or temperance. Rather, it shows you to be stingy, unjust, sniping, and excessively demanding of your own way.

    “Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.”

    I’m sure, unfortunately, that you are holding fast to the teaching you were taught, but fundamentalism is the opposite of sound doctrine. It’s a substitution of man-made laws for the wonderful news of the Cross, which is powerful to exhort and convince gainsayers.

    “For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:”

    Ah, there you are! Your vain words and deception show a greater concern for outward appearances (like the circumcision group had) than for the hearts of your people.

    “Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake.”

    What family, what household, has your legalism not subverted and disrupted? What marriage, what parent-child relationship, has not been damaged by your demands on the lives of your staff? What Christian’s conscience has not been bruised or hardened by your teaching for the sake of dishonest gain?

    “One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;”

    You presumed to give your staff a sharp rebuke for failing to support the lifeless programs that you think make you a good and godly person. But you, false teacher that you are, deserve a sharper rebuke yet, that you might be sound in the faith. Men like you are always liars and evil brutes. But, Lord willing, you will receive the sharp rebuke of the Holy Spirit before it is too late for your soul.

    “Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.”

    Ever wonder why you spot sexual sin around every corner? Why you are so afraid and enraged by television and movies and women wearing pants and all the sexual temptation and danger that you see running rampant in the hearts of every person in your pews and on your staff? This is why. It’s because your very mind and conscience are defiled, so nothing is pure to you. Ever wonder why people who aren’t fundies but who say they’re Christians seem so much less bothered by what comes on television or who is walking down the street on their way to work? It’s because to the pure, all things are pure.

    “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.”

    You profess to know God, but deny him when you add to the beautiful good news of God — fresh, life-giving springs of water! — your filthy garments of “works”. You have contaminated the Gospel with law, and not even God’s law, but your own man-made law. True good works are lost to you and the Scriptures call you abominable and disobedient.

    Repent.

    Sincerely in Christ,
    AtticWife.

    1. Well said. Just curious why you are “atticwife”. I am hoping your husband isn’t keeping you locked up somewhere…

    2. Dear AtticWife:

      A stinging rebuke! And sadly, much needed. Re: the Biblical doctrine of the plurality of elders — I would not agree more!’ BRAVO, AtticWife!

      Christian Socialist

  44. Whoever leaked this may be run over by Jack’s Lexus…or drowned in his pool…or smashed by one of the four grand pianos in the auditorium…

  45. I am guessing this staff member who leaked the letter is either on their way out of the fundydom or their spouse is and felt the need to divulge it.

  46. At the first church I worked for, these expectations were applied not only to me, but to my wife as well. Yes, I allowed my pregnant wife to walk for two hours a Saturday in 100+ degree heat.

    1. The expectations people put on pastors wives is ridiculous. They don’t take the job, their husbands do. What if she’s not outgoing? What if she has a bunch of small children, or, as in your case, pregnant? What if she just doesn’t like all the judgmental jerks that try to get themselves close to the pastor?

      1. Spot on with all three, but no matter, staff wives were required to attend at least one of the weekly visitation times. At least the Saturday mornings were probably better than the Thursday night door-knocking in the trailer parks after dark.

  48. This hurts my spirit.
    The worst part was, ‘You ought to be there as paid employees helping to create a spirit of excitement 10-15 minutes before these meetings.’ I’ll address what I can stomach.

    ‘Paid employees.’ I know what Mr. Treiber was trying to do here, but he’s going about it all wrong.

    To effectively manipulate people, you have to grab them by the ideals and squeeze. Don’t call them paid employees, Call them Called Servants! Don’t say, “I want you to come early and create hype!” say, “Gid wants you to show the joy of the Lord on your face every time the doors are open.” Use as many cliches as you can.

    ‘A spirit of excitement’.

    I have had quite enough of excitement in the church. I hope to God never to hear about it again. To quote the immortal bard Jon Foreman, “You fall out, and you find out the hype won’t get you through.”

    Anyone can drum up hype. Only God can change people.

  49. I’m a youth minister, I am also a payed employee of the church, which is the congregation, not the pastor. I view the pastor as my supervisor.

    Honestly, the only part of this that offends me is the pastor putting people’s salvation directly linked to his staff showing up at these events. Only God saves people, neither him or his staff. I attend weekly meetings, we call it “visitation,” but it’s the same thing. I agree with him that the pastoral staff should attend. If I am not able to go on visitation at our church, I let my pastor know beforehand and he gives me an okay. He’s my supervisor.

    I also have no problem with him cutting their salary if they don’t show up. If I never showed up for that, there would be a problem. I showed up one time and no one was there, including the pastor, and I was ticked! It looks terrible for the pastors not to be at a weekly event.

    Even I have a job discription, which includes going to my Youth Group Members’ ball games as much as possible.

    I know it looks like I’m some crazy Fundy defending this guy, but I’m not. I’m defending the fact that pastoral staff should show up to visitation/soul winning/whatever you call it regular scheduled events. I know many a church who fired their pastors who didn’t.

    I do, however, disagree with his condition that if no one is saved, they still lose their pay and benefits. That’s bull. As good as they may be at their jobs, they aren’t the 12 Apostles, who got 3,000 per sermon! The Apostles would tell you only God saves souls. As good a shepherd as he may be, Jack Trieber ain’t the Good Shepherd.

    While I see his point, that’s a staff meeting problem, not an email problem. It definitely isn’t a disprespectful email problem. He seems to talk down to them. Maybe he sould pray about that, before he sends another email.

    1. Greg wrote, “I know it looks like I’m some crazy Fundy defending this guy, but I’m not. I’m defending the fact that pastoral staff should show up to visitation/soul winning/whatever you call it regular scheduled events. I know many a church who fired their pastors who didn’t.”

      Ummm, these are not necessarily pastoral employees. You will note they are note getting salary during the summer, but maintain their employee benefits…sounds like he is mad at the school teachers who are off enjoying their hard-earned summer.

  50. If you have to demand of your “flock” to produce “fruit” you are NOT PROPERLY FEEDING your sheep.
    That’s like telling the branches to produce fruit when what they needed all along was light, water and a balanced (PH) soil (a proper feeding)

    1 Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

    1. Jack Triber says…”For some of you, I believe it might be very wise that you considered moving on.”

      That was the wisest thing he said in that whole letter….if I were his “employee” I would be saying the words, “Asta la vista baby!”

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