306 thoughts on “Awkward Promo Videos”

    1. Wow…been a few weeks since I was here and the tone has just turned so…..mean.

      And by mean I mean mean in it’s actual definiiton , not jus the “not nice” usage of today.

      Sad.
      🙁

      1. Not trying for the easy pun, but what does this even mean?

        You trying to say people are saying what they mean (apparently w/o being mean in the sense of “not nice — presumably are being civilly articulate), and that’s somehow sad?

  3. The preacher at 5:21 with Down Syndrome feels a little exploitative to me but that may just be me reading into my feelings about the group in general.

    1. I got the same feel, but would have to tepper that based on my prejudice towards all things fundy…

      This did have some marketing spin:

      Attractive youth talking about witnessing – check
      Token black guy – check
      Downs preacher (we care about the mentally challenged) – check
      Women teaching (we are progressive) – check
      Yet women are in their place (playing piano and other instuments) – check
      Showing we’re fundy by talking about music – check

      …and the list goes on

        1. I’m not getting the “white southerners” angle here, its been mentioned several times, there is plenty here to complain about. My PC (all white people are hateful) antenna are surging upward, particularly because they featured at least one black man (call him token if you will) If they are prejudiced white folks, why have any blacks featured at all, something is stinking here and I’m afraid its coming off of some of these biased posts on SFL.(sorry Natalie but the liberals are at it again) Does anyone want to explain this to this southern white man?

        2. “Does anyone want to explain this to this southern white man?”

          No, honey, I can’t type that slow. KIDDING!

          Actually, I don’t get the southern thing at all, to me all fundies sound southern, regardless of location, and I’m like a lot of folks here, born and bred in NC. What I do see is white white white white white. Now I get it, people flock to what they know and “the most segregated hour of the week is 11am Sunday”.

          But when I walked into my new church for the first time and saw many people of color instead of just a tiny few, I realized I’d found something new. And better.

        3. The reality of the situation is that we still have very segregated churches in North America because of cultural and stylistic differences that date back to slavery. It’s changing around the edges- charismatic/pentecostal and anglican/catholic churches but to blame fundy baptists is to complete miss history.

        4. I am not racially prejudiced but there are no “people of color”, though some would count the Hispanics amoung us as such, in our congregation. The reason for this is largely cultural. I’ve seen Black preachers and congregations and would find myself quite uncomfortable there. They would likely find my church equally unsettling or, at the least, incredably boreing.
          That doesn’t mean racism just differences. I would feel (and have felt) equally uncomfortable at an old line Pentacostal church or some of the IFB churches I hear described here. :mrgreen:

      2. I missed the women teaching. I must have blinked.
        They did show a black man speaking, but not for long enough that we could hear what he was saying.

        It’s probably unfair of me to say this without having heard the man’s whole talk, and in the few seconds shown I couldn’t understand what he was saying, but it did seem that the preacher with Down’s Syndrome was being used as something of a circus sideshow. It reminds me of a pair of conjoined-twin evangelists who used to do the revival circuit. To quote Samuel Johnson out of context, the attention-getting thing about this kind of preaching “is not that it is done well, but that it is done at all.”

      3. What’s wrong with women playing the piano and other instruments? I like playing the piano. It’s something I’m good at, and it sure beats being stuck in the nursery taking care of little brats!

        1. I was always so VERY happy that playing the piano kept me from having to work in the nursery! I am willing to run downstairs to teach children’s church though after the music portion of the service is done.

        2. I always stayed in the nursery with my little ones, whether I was supposed to stay or not…who knows what goes on back there.

      1. That I generally don’t trust them to act with sensitivity or in the best interest of anyone but themselves.

        2. Wait I’m confused. When you say “that group “do you mean people with Down’s Syndrome or fundy preacher’s?

        3. uh…being as I’m not a complete jerk, I’d assume people would understand I meant fundy preachers.

    4. I didn’t feel like that was exploitative at all, and I’m saying that as the mother of two kids with special needs. He was shown in just as dignified a way as the other speakers, with the same respect, and I’m glad that he had the opportunity to demonstrate his talents. I have to give them credit for giving him that opportunity.

      1. That’s what I thought—the criticism here is as bad or worse than the fundy variety, nit picking and faultfinding with a vengance….with an increasingly bad slouch away from satire and toward viciousness

        🙁

    1. Yup..and its caused quite a little uproar…love all the politics…Barber and Pope were cast out of the FBC circles and put on the “security bad list” as being disloyal..would love to see the little dance of politics in that meeting as Clarence puts them all together..haha!

      1. “Security Bad List”? Does that mean they post guards at the door to keep them out?

      2. Interesting, Pope was my pastor, we always understood it that he had distanced himself from Hyles, not cast out. although he didn’t mind holding on to his honorary doctorate title.

        I never knew what it was over, just thought it was his choice because they were getting pretty looney up there, of course in fundy world, that’s enough to be “cast out”.

        1. I am suprised that he’d show up at the same conference if Schlaap was there too. What frightens me most about this video is that fundys are showing a front and uniting. Have mercy! “fighting fundamentalists trying not to fight with each other.

        2. That’s the PCC Pope? I heard the name from some of the Bible majors, Had no clue who he was or that had come from Hyles. Interesting.

        4. The security “bad” list was literally a black book with pictures of people like Barber, Rasmussen, Weaver and all the other disloyal wicked ones who left in the Hyles debacle in the 80’s. When I was in college we were expected to memorize their faces and names and block them from coming into the college if they showed up. They were not allowed on campus by ANY means.
          Pope wasn’t on the worst of the worst list because Schaap would often talk about him being his favorite preacher when he was in college. He was on the bad list not the BAD BAD list… 🙄

        5. I am His Beloved, we’re you on Campus Security and had this book? Or did all good students have to memorize these people? Yowzaa! My husband was on Security at PCC and had a list of people to look for that were not allowed on campus either.

        6. I made PCC’s not allowed list for a while. IDK how long term those lists are. I assume I’ve been removed from it (over a decade ago, and they didn’t need to put me on the list in the first place, I wasn’t ever going to be on campus again anyway.

        1. Can someone nominate themselves to be on either list? I can provide pics & lots of references that I am exactly what HAC considers bad problems! 🙂

        3. On one hand, I would consider it an honor to be in that book.
          On the other hand, they really aren’t in much danger of me showing up on their campus some day.

  6. Darell, how can you say something like that about someone?

    I’m seriously beginning to have my doubts about this website. You seem to be getting kind of nit picky… Or maybe your just running out of material.

    1. So your contention is that his hand’s _aren’t_ all over the guys he’s praising? And he _isn’t_ standing in front of his wife and not looking at her?

      I’m not accusing him of being gay. I’m just noticing what appears to be a strange contrast in body language.

      1. It seemed like the same old IFB idea of putting the wife in her place. The Men of Gawd are the top priority and should be the most prominent feature of the video and we lowly women-folk belong in the back. Seen and not heard unless asked to speak by our Caro Sposo 😉

        2. I think far more fundies think of power as an aphrodisiac than anything else. Most outside of fundy land can easily mistake it for latent homosexuality, but I think most just get off on power & control, etc.

        4. I’m not opposed to people of any gender touching, hugging, or holding each other (in fact, I like it), but in this case, yes, I think it’s a power gesture. In general, a higher-ranking person is permitted to touch a lower-ranking person at will, but a lower-ranking person may not touch a higher-ranking person without his or her invitation. This is true in America and, with variations, throughout the world.

          The MC guy may also be making a misguided attempt to show how friendly the gathering of “Baptist Friends” is by putting his arm around everybody.

          But standing in front of his wife, and having her keep silent except to say “Amen” when he finishes, is classic IFB. The Taliban could hardly do it better.

      2. I have to admit that I first took that statement as a slight hint that the guy might be gay. But then again, I think many fundy men are closet gays anyway. It’s usually the ones who rant the hardest against it that secretly enjoy it.

        Don’t get me started about Fred Phelps. I had to spend a long time explaining to a friend the other day that Phelps was NOT a typical Christian.

        1. I’m continually being amazed by the number of outspoken anti-gay activists who end up being outed as closeted gays themselves. I’m starting to think that all loudmouthed gay-bashers are secretly gay. (I’m not talking about this video; I just mean in general.)

        2. I didn’t get “gay” from the statement at all, I got “creepy and very misogynistic” People who invade personal space aren’t gay, they are creeps on a power trip. People who turn their backs on women in a social setting are misogynistic jerks, also on a power trip.
          I will defend Darrell to the DEATH! 😈

      4. I love at the end when he asks his wife to speak.
        “Can you say Amen?”
        “Amen”
        “Very good.”

        What we didn’t see are the years of him using one of those dog clickers to train her to speak on command, and the beggin strip she got when the camera was turned off.

    2. Just wanted you all to know, there are now two of us on SFL! And this INT thinks Darrel made a good point about the guy being touchy feely with the guys but not his wife! 😯

  7. I can’t see the video; Youtube is blocked here. But I used to be a Crown student and I can only imagine that this video is of Clarence Sexton, and that it’s really creepy.

    1. After the Great Youtube Debacle of March 2nd (which clearly indicates that Bob is on to us), I’m surprised SFL hasn’t been blocked on campus.

  9. “…you’re following a great pastor, brother gene lasley, one of the most admired men in america.”

    really?? one of the most admired men in the country??

    1. Well, in their circles, he was one of the most admired men in America. Of course, their circle is pretty small.

    5. I even have a problem with the adjective “great” being applied to MOG’s.

      It’s not about them.

      Apart from God’s grace, they (and the rest of us) would be absolute disasters.

      SFL = “Me-Centered” Theology

    6. I never heard of him either.

      This was one of the biggest wakeup calls for me in my first fundy church…finding out that my church and it’s pastors/special speakers were not only NOT the most beloved/well known in the country, but people who lived in the same town had usually never heard of any of them! 🙄 (Well, until they started getting a lot of press for all the sexual abuse that had occurred over a few years, but that is for another thread…)

      1. I guess it’s like when a teenager mentions a rapper to anyone over 20 and they go “Who?” Even if he has sold 10 million singles.

        It all depends on the circles you swim in.

  10. “We’ll accept the brother for who he is in Jesus and we’ll encourage him and support him” 😯 – Lying is a sin.

    1. Can’t speak for too many independent, fundamental baptists, but I’ve known Johnny Pope for years and I believe his comment to be sincere.

      1. “We’ll accept the brother for who he is in Jesus and we’ll encourage him and support him… as long as he lines of totally with the belief system we’ve laid out.” That’s what I meant. I’m sure he’s sincere in what he says, but you let “the brother” step one toe out of line, like letting his wife wear pants, going to the movies, listening to secular music etc or the very worst thing of all…leaning towards Calvinism 😈 and he’ll be backslidden and then it’s time to separate out of Christian love.

      2. I’ve known him for a long time too. He’s a good man. Just not very helpful when people are in crisis. He’s a preacher not a pastor, and I think he admits that.

    2. That “in Jesus” clause is a loophole to fundies that is large enough you could guide a small planet through.

  11. But won’t going to YouTube to watch this require that they get on the interweb? What if they use their own judgment and click on a video with people in shorts or something. Wouldn’t that be considered causing a weaker brother to stumble?

    2. Apathetic, look me up on facebook. I was actually considering sending my son to Crown….

      Jeff McReynolds Kingsport TN

  16. You might be a preacher if, after you finish talking, turn to the ONE person in the room, and ask for an “amen”.

  17. “When Satan was cast out of heaven, he fell into the choir loft.”

    Music is a big battle only because you make it so.

    1. Yeah, I caught that too. I think that is the first time I heard that phrase in Fundymentalism. Then I had to turn it off.

  19. I could only stand about a minute. The affectations of their voices and the body posture while they deliver sermons is so cookie-cutter. If you can’t say it with your content, say it with pacing and flopping your arms around and a REALLY loud voice.

    And “one of the most admired men in America”—what? Hyperbole much? Then the younger guy said, “Be all we can be.” I hit the stop button at that point.

  20. Johnny Pope’s little cameo made me scream. It’s a good thing I’m on my way to see my psychotherapist this morning. If I had followed my parents wishes, I would have ended up at Crown College instead of Bob Jones. Boy am I glad I chose the lesser of two evils (HA!)Besides, the boys were cuter at BJU. Hee hee.

  21. I have one word to describe those of you who watched it already: SUCKERS! I don’t need that kind of trauma before 5PM! 🙂

    1. I remember when he’d speak at BJU. Everyone thought he was hilarious and “such a great man of God”. He’s a man of great hot air.

      1. He was my youth/singles/music minister when he was at Boston U. getting his Master’s. Interestingly enough, that particular church isn’t on his BJU biography. Don’t know if it’s because the church was never really fundy, or because it changed names. (Which I wish it hadn’t, it had a long history as First Baptist.)

      2. My husband walked out of the FMA during one of Schrock’s circus acts in chapel. To this day people think we got forced to resign over that.

        We didn’t. Good grief, we didn’t. But why does anyone associate with this clown?

        1. Sorry, I’m from a different world. Who is Schrock and what makes him so detestable?

        2. I was blessed to attend one of his chapel sideshows as well. He had several of the more subdued kids hiding their heads in the hymnals. In terms of generated controversy, it ranks right next to one of Mazak’s chapel romps. (For the life of me, I can’t remember what it was Mazak said, only that all my friends were livid about it afterward.)

        3. @ Guest, Mike Schrock is the guy in this video playing the trumpet and talking about music. He is staff evangelist for BJU.

    2. I attended my in-laws’ church while Schrock was speaking for special services. Circus is a good way to describe it. He young men from the audience and had them stand up in front to illustrate some point or another, I can’t remember what. Anyway, attendance was apparently down that night, so I was selected to stand up front, even though I was a visitor. It was uncomfortable and I felt like a fool.

      He also chose another visitor to stand up front, a young man who was attending the local community college, who was invited to visit the church. The poor guy had to stand there while listening to Schrock rail against anyone who would go to godless heathen colleges, even community colleges. As far as I know, the young man visiting never came back again (and who could blame him). Schrock’s an idiot.

      1. Interesting that Shrock would rail against godless colleges when he basically did his master’s degree at one.

    3. I know from the comments & his idiotic choir loft comment Shrock dude is a typical fundy music lunatic, but I did really really really want to hear that rendition of “It Is Well” with the trumpet at 5:33ish mark.

      1. He is very good at playing the trumpet. But your assessment is spot on. We sang a lot of Garlock/Hamilton music when he directed the choir at the church I mentioned.

        1. I beg to differ. I’ve had the unfortunate pleasure of hearing this dude one too many times in chapel and at my former fundy church and he is NOT a good trumpet player. He can play the trumpet…but lacks any shred of musicality. It’s grating and does nothing but to bring attention to himself.

        2. 😉 Differ all you like. :mrgreen: I’ll admit it’s been a while since I’ve heard him.

  23. “When the devil was cast out of heaven he fell into the choir loft.”

    What????? I’ve never heard that one before.

    LMAO!!!

    3. I think they’re saying that Satan has a big influence on church music, but I think it’s a ridiculous statement. The Bible makes no mention of Satan tempting Adam and Eve with bad MUSIC. Pffft.

      Anyway, if they think Satan’s in the choir loft, they should be glad we got rid of ours and now have a praise band! 😀

      2. Satan obviously isn’t playing death-metal, then, since he’s busy in the Baptist choir loft.

    4. My guess, and it’s only a guess, is that he was referring to Lucifer being the prince of the power of the air, and Fundies take that to mean air waves, ie. music. And so when he fell to earth, he was given power over music. I don’t know if “choir loft” meant specifically a church choir? IDK.

      I have good memories of Mike as our singles’ pastor. But I didn’t agree with everything he said. And I wasn’t afraid to tell him that, either. It’s amazing I was allowed to be a class officer in our singles’ group. 😕 I think it had more to do with where I went to college than anything else.

      1. If you believe that music is Satanic, then shouldn’t you avoid all music, not just some kinds of music?

  24. I just don’t see what is so bad about this video. All I saw as far touching was some black slapping and putting his hand on their shoulder. This is real common in every church I have been in. And as far as flapping arms and screaming did not see any. All people will point and wave their arms to some extent when speaking and trying to make a point. I am afraid you guys are starting to chase “fundy” ghosts in every word and action you observe.

    Might want to lay off the lattes and bagels, get some JFG and Krispie Kreme donuts and rejoin the real world. 😆

      1. Truthfuly, I did not hear a tone of arrogance. Granted they showed tidbits of sermons, however based on those it sound like hard, energetic preaching. Personally, a preacher who sounds like a NPR radio host needs to examine himself. When you are preaching about the glories of heaven and the saving grace of Jesus Christ, you should jumping for joy and shouting amen. Likewise when you are preaching about the fate of sinners in hell and facing Jesus Christ, at the White Throne of judgement, you should be weeping and also driving home the seriousness of eternal death.

        1. If someone preaches like an NPR announcer they need to “examine their heart”? Ok? Why do you need to stuff your preference down everyone’s throat?

        3. I think this is a matter of taste, not of valid or invalid preaching styles. I’m more interested in what the preacher says than in how histrionic the presentation is or isn’t.

        4. Are you speaking only of NPR news hosts? Is it okay to sound like other NPR people – like, say, Tom and Ray (Car Talk)? “And even though Jack Schaap slaps his grandma every time he hears me say it, this is FBC – First Baptist Church.”

          Seriously, though – I think you’re talking about a stylistic preference. Just because someone’s not jumping and shouting amen doesn’t mean they’re not joyful.

          I agree with you that something’s seriously wrong if someone is talking about hell and they’re gleeful. If God doesn’t delight in the death of the wicked, neither should his kids.

        6. “And even though Jack Schaap slaps his grandma every time he hears me say it, this is FBC – First Baptist Church.”

          😆 😛 😆 😆

        8. What a load. If you have to be “jumping around” and “shouting” then you’re full of yourself and overly emotive. I’m not interesting in anyone’s raving masquerading as a sermon and I LOATHE institutional cheerleading.

        9. @ Chad
          I wouldn’t have seen what was bad about this about two years ago. Let me tell you what I see in this video now.

          1. Emphasis the importance of the preacher instead of God – this is a Great Man of God, this man is doing the Lord’s work in…, your wife was a missionary kid amen?, etc

          2. Power tripping. The main video host constantly shows dominance and power over the other preachers by pulling them close even when they are uncomfortable. He also has his wife standing behind him without saying anything or touching or recognizing her.

          3. Personal standards preached. You can tell there was a lot of this by listening to the trumpet guy talk and the subtle slights at those who would not agree.

          4. Spiritual mumbo jumbo. Using trite/Christian words and phrases that have virtually no meaning but make the user sound spiritual.

          5. Bill Clinton lying. It is just the way they sound, and I am prejudiced a little. This has nothing to do with spirituality.

          6. Huge emphases on externals. Everyone looks the same. Bleah!

          7. Possible manipulation of a down syndrome person. After helping with down syndrome children during college and having a down syndrome aunt, I find it offensive if they are using this young man. If not then hooray for him, and I hope that he keeps preaching because he probably makes more sense than many of the other preachers.

        10. Ditto to Kevin and many others on the touching. Notice that every touch on the male preachers is on their shoulder or back with his hand – a controlling touch. Also notice that he does not read body language to determine whether or not someone is comfortable with him touching them (leaning away, looking stiff) – he touches them anyway, even pulling them closer to him. I call that power/control issues, right there.

          Most normal people don’t keep touching people that don’t want to be touched. It’s very possible to tell the difference, and even if he has trouble reading body language, he can definitely use his words to find out. It’s the not caring that’s the problem.

        11. @Naomi, totally! I still think the one dude that said “we have our eye on the sky” totally summed Baptist power brokers perfectly. They’re all trying to reach that summit of power, and have no concern for anyone around them! 🙂

      1. It’s real coffee. The kind that comes in a can already ground up. JFG is the only kind of coffee I ever saw growing up in my part of the South.(SW Virginia)

        1. I meant to add this :mrgreen: Trying to be funny is hard for a stuffy, right-winger Pentecostal like me.

        2. I do like pastors to be passionate about their subject, but I can tell delight and interest in their topic from anger. I really shrink from hearing anger shrieked at me from the pulpit. Also I’ve sometimes heard enormously intelligent men whose speaking style wasn’t as vibrant as I liked but whose content was so powerful it kept me focused.

          I guess overall I just want authenticity; I don’t want someone forcing themselves to wave their arms and holler because they’re trying to work the crowd. But I agree that the thought of Christ ought to create in us incredible joy and the thought of lost souls incredible sadness.

        3. You’re from SW Virginia? You may be related to my sister-in-law. She’s from near Bristol.

        4. Big Gary, you hit the nail on the head. Bristol is were I was born and raised. Live about twenty minutes away now days.

        5. Pastors Wife, I have noticed through the years that the more schooling a minister has the more sedate and less energetic they are. I guess a big thing is us Southerners are a emotional bunch, and when you sound like you just woke up from a long night of carousing, people are bound to say, “Somethin’ just ain’t right with that boy.”

    3. It isn’t the touching of his fellow mogs that bothers me. It is the contrast between the treatment of the mogs and his wife. The mogs stood next to the moderator while he had his arm around them, asking them questions and patiently listening to their responses. On the other hand, his wife stood behind him, smiling numbly, only saying amen with his permission. She reminded me more of a loyal dog than his wife.

      “Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons.”

      1. That’s what hit me the most. He spends the whole video putting his hand on the other preachers’ shoulders, whether they’re comfortable with it or not, and standing beside them. And then you get to the closing where he’s actively standing in front of his wife, with whom he claims to have discussed and planned this conference, never touching her or interacting with her until the very end. It’s jarring. It’s an obvious and calculated difference. And my heart hurt for her, and the fact that she probably doesn’t realize the difference is wrong.

    4. I think Paul spoke to this in 1st Corinthians. He warned the church about people whose “power” when preaching was only skin deep. True powerful preaching must be sound, exalt Christ only, and produce fruit in the hearers.

      1. This was supposed to be @ Chad Williams re: NPR broadcasters versus “real preaching”

        1. When I said “sound like a NPR radio host”, I meant the newscasters that just drone on in a hushed whisper, like they don’t want anyone to hear them. They remind me of the way people will talk in a funeral home during the viewing. I was in know way talking about the politics of the host.

        2. Gotcha. Where I come from there is a distinction made between preaching (yelling, running, etc.) and teaching (quieter, more…something…I dunno). I never did quite understand what they meant. The IFB preachers I was around certainly did yell a lot and that was supposed to be “powerful” preaching. I am pretty sure there are references Paul to stating that his personality was not one that would make you say “wow, how powerfully charismatic and eloquent”.

        4. I wonder if Jesus whooped and yelled and wove his arms and ran around and waved his hanky.

  27. Ok, I knew it was hitting home when the video was from my alma matter… then I realize my brother in law is featured prominently with my sister (growing up on the mission field) being all but named. What you did see for a second was a shot of Dr. Charles Keen (sitting at a table, I think), who in my opinion is one of the few good guys left in that movement.

  29. Who edited that video? The fade-outs and transitions couldnt possibly be more awkward!

  30. The moderator reminds me of that drunk guy who’s always putting his arm around you … “I love you, Don … you’ve alwaysh been soooo frenlly…”.

    1. Well said, and I think it is totally unacceptable. These preachers need to keep their hands off each other and be an example before they rant on Gays.

    1. Aw, Don, you beat me to it!
      I’m still in suspense to learn who won that (presumably week-long) competition.

    2. I noticed the pocket handkerchief thingy too. Yeah, they’re progressive all right. . because NOTHING says “progressive” like dark suits and white shirts and out-of-style ties, hymnals, and women being in their “place”. 🙄

  33. Well, although I spent many years in a fundamental church — my pastor was a loyal follower of Dr Hyles. I’m guessing that Dr Hyles didn’t approve of these men, because I didn’t know *any* of them.

    I **finally** figured out that the presenter was Clarence Sexton.

    It keeps looking like these men are trying to create something that will be “the thing” in fundamentalism.

    On the fundamental side, the “let’s all get together for world evangelism and ignore our differences” isn’t going to work. After someone becomes a Christian, we are to teach them everything God has commanded — so either they will have to ignore the command and not teach “everything”, or they will begin to splinter apart.

  34. Random observations:

    “Independent Baptist Friends International” sounds like the name of one of those mail-order-bride matchmaking services. I encountered a number of those operations back when I worked in immigration law. They are great facilitators for serial spouse abusers and human traffickers (Note: I’m not saying this conference has any similarity to them except for its name).

    I think MC Guy is trying to channel Jerry Falwell.

    What’s with the giant-plaid choir uniforms on that female singing trio? Was there that much fabric left over from upholstering the couch?

    I think the speaker at about 2:39 is saying “It helps that we have algae …” My aquarium-geek self is interested. What does it help?

      1. That is a slam to us Jerry’s kids out there 😉

        Say what you want, but Falwell was genuine. I’m not railing on this guy, but at least Falwell IS a household name outside of Christian circles.

        1. Falwell’s name is more of a curse word outside of Christian-Right, fundy circles. I don’t want to debate his merits and demerits, but that’s what his reputation was and is, “outside of Christian circles”– a symbol of narrow-mindedness and intolerance, a friend of dictators, and a devious meddler in national and international politics.

        2. Jerry Falwell is a christian warrior statesman who founded one of the nation’s best colleges whether christian or secular. His life and ministry has impacted this country for the good, and he himself never lost sight of his ultimate goal, to gloify the Lord Jesus Christ, if I be lifted up, Jesus said, I will draw “ALL” men unto me, Jerry never ever lost sight of that, and he was a tireless worker for the kingdom of God, and never missed an opportunity to witness for our Saviour.

          Was he perfect? Did he say and do a few dumb things? Sure, he was a man, a man that God saw fit to mightly use for His purpose, thank God for saints like Jerry Falwell, I yearn to be used of God like brother Falwell was.

        3. Greg–Next you’ll be telling us that he MUST be a Man of God because the world hates him so.

        4. Rose – His tremendous accomplishments for the cause of Christ speak much louder than anything I could say.

        5. OK, Greg, you win. Hard as I try not to feed trolls, I have to say here that absolutely everything you say about the fascist, deceptive, manipulative, theocratic, hate-filled, racist, homophobic Falwell is utterly false. If you believe all you said about him, more’s the pity.

        6. Moreover, Falwell was a self-worshipping Pharisee who put tremendous resources into persecuting good people, both Christian and non-Christian, supposedly in service of his religion, that religion being an astoundingly ignorant perversion of the Gospel.

          There, you got me to take the bait. You win.

        7. Big Gary – It may sound fundy, but I fear for you. “Touch not God’s annointed”

        9. RobM – Make sure to point out my “fundiness” but not a word about Big Gary’s lies and hatefulness, toward, perhaps one of the most influential, giants of the christian faith in modern times. OK

        11. Greg, when and how do you believe it is OK to publicly call out a public religious leader for their error? If they embezzle money? If they are Methodist and teach doctrines you disagree with? If they have abused children? If they are in a different (non-Christian) religion? What are the limits on this?

          It seems like you’re calling out Big Gary for correcting what he believes to be seriously harmful error in Falwell’s teaching and methods, when it seems that you do the same thing to religious leaders you disagree with, like on sexual orientation issues. I wonder what you think about when it’s appropriate to call anyone out, since the situation could be construed as a double standard.

        12. Naomi – Big Gary correcting Jerry Falwell on anything is laughable. Jerry Falwell was a flawed, mightily used saint/man of God. Your entire first paragraph has nothing to do with Falwell.

          I am seriously trying to think of any religious leaders I have called out, none come to mind. I think I may have busted on Ruckman.

          The homosexual topic has been beaten to death around here. The plain Word of God is abundantly clear on the topic. Anyone that supports homosexuality is wrong, not according to Greg, but according to the Word of God. It is neither kind, nor christian or loving to say otherwise.

        13. Jerry Falwell was a decidedly public figure who did some good and some bad, and is find to criticize him. BG didn’t try to couch his comment in “this might sound a little harsh”. He clearly dislikes Falwell very strongly and has nothing to apologize for or explain. It isn’t something that “might sound” fundy it just is fundy to do that “touch not the Lord’s Annointed” nonsense. An easy tell on whether someone is a fundy or not is whether they abuse that phrase in Scripture. It’s fine to be a fundy, it’s bizarre to take offense at being identified as a fundy.

        14. RobM – I believe every word of the Holy Scriptures. I believe I used “touch not God’s annointed” in the perfect spot, I wouldn’t know of a more appropriate place to use it, if you say that makes me fundy, then fundy it is, according to you.

        15. You don’t know it very well cause you seem to think the phrase is “Touch not the Lord’s anointed”, which doesn’t appear in scripture that I can find. There are 2 references to “touch not mine anointed” about OT prophets, not Jerry Falwell. Strike one, care to try again?

        16. Ironically (correctly used) while “touch not the Lord’s anointed” doesn’t appear anywhere in Scripture, it’s a great phrase to use in google to find blog posts & news accounts about abusive fundamentalist “preachers”

        17. In Context the “touch not God’s anointed” is not in scripture.
          The “Lord’s Anointed” always refers to a King over Israel

          “Touch not mine anointed” is in direct reference to the nation of Israel

          So unless Falwell, or any of these anointed wanna be’s, are Jewish kings or Modern Israelites then the reference is bogus.

          Any so called M-O-g who makes the claim that he is more holy, more blessed because he is the Lord’s anointed is a false prophet and should be avoided like the plague.

          They may be gifted to preach/teach but they are not more sanctified than any other member of body of Christ. In fact the NT reference to an anointed person is mostly speaking of Christ. Paul is speaking of the group he was traveling with in Corinth when speaking of being anointed. John speaks of anointing applying to all believers.

          So this crap about super saints being specially anointed is BULL GIPP!

        18. I don’t do that fundy peacocking thing about how well I know the scriptures anymore like we were taught to do in fundyland, precisely because of all the times you’d do it and then use a phrase wrongly like this, and have one that wasn’t even in the scriptures.

        19. You can prove most anything with Scriptures, as long as you’re willing to take them out of context and to pick and choose which scriptures you use.

        20. To make a full disclosure, I’ve been criticizing Falwell and his “Moral Majority” racket (neither moral nor the majority) for about 30 years, going way back before his claim that Teletubbies was a secret brainwashing scheme to promote homosexuality, before he funded and promoted a film falsely accusing Bill Clinton of murder, even to before his famous pro-Apartheid tour of South Africa in which he denounced people like Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu as “phony.” I hadn’t heard of him back when he was bashing Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and welcoming segregationist politicians on his radio show, and I had stopped paying any attention to him by the time he claimed that pagans, feminists, gays, lesbians, and the ACLU caused the September 11, 2001 attacks, but he didn’t change much over the decades.

          So, yes, Falwell and I go way back, and I’ve denounced him out loud many, many times. As of today, Falwell is dead, and I feel fine.

        21. You know it occurs to me to say the heck with SFL, as I have to occasionally do battle with the handful of you, know-it-all fundy liberals. But I just got to thinking, its just a core 4 or 5 of you that continuously push an extreme liberal position, the rest of the good folks, just look at you and laugh, and don’t want to spoil the fun by holding your feet to the fire, like I do, and call you down on your liberal, canned shtick. (and this over-the-top hate, above)

          Darrell has a good thing going here, and I do enjoy coming around, so I think I’ll stay put for awhile, but I will pounce, when I deem it necessary, or Darrell tosses me off.

          (btw, most of you liberals play nice most of the time)

        23. Strict adherence to the actual words used in Scripture is not liberal by any definition.

        24. I fit in a weird niche….decidedly “evangelical”, NOT “fundamentalist”, on staff of Rick Warren’s church, the pastor fundy’s most like to hate (now that Billy Graham is nigh a century old) and another of “Jerry’s kid’s”. People who don’t completely understand the whole fundy movement often don’t have an appreciation for much of the good Falwell did. IMO the best thing he did was lead a large group of churches out of the lunatic fundy fringe to a more moderate position where pants on women, movies, CCM, KJV, etc. are issues long forgotten in the dust. “Real” fundies still hate him. Bob Jones called him “the most dangerous man in America”. Although a strong conservative myself I disagreed with him becoming an adjunct of the GOP. I disagreed with an over emphasis of the gay issue although I think he held a biblical view. He made some stupid statements. He did speak out against MLK and black preachers marching in the streets but later said he was wrong. He grew and changed greatly in the many years I watched him and knew him. The school grew and changed even more. It was at one time considered a fundy school. No more. It is fully accredited with real accreditation. It has a real professors who didn’t just matriculate from the mothership like many Christian kawledges. They no longer just accept anyone who applies. They have a real law school with excellent bar results. They are opening a school of engineering. They have 13k students on campus. Jerry long ago broke away from the “separate from everybody for anything” that the BJ’s of the world espouse.

          I could explain how when the editor of his magazine wrote about Tinky Winky it had already been written about over 140 times in the 12 months prior to that but because it was Falwell it was derided but not when it was in People or WAPO or the NYT, etc. I could explain how many of his political foes respected him and liked him even though they disagreed with him because Jerry WAS a likable and genuinely decent man who was a fierce if friendly competitor in all pursuits with a taste for a good debate….like many of us here.

          Yes, I knew Jerry and liked him even though I didn’t always agree with him. I understand others don’t and that’s cool. But I feel like I need to stick up for a friend. Jerry suffered from his own foot-in-mouth at times plus the caricature the press made him out to be. But hey, someone the left AND the (crazy) right hated so much had to have some redeeming qualities to him. 😉

        25. @JonB I feel you. I don’t really have a problem with Jerry, but if others do, I don’t feel the need to defend him. I personally think he did more good than harm, and definitely was a great thing to offer an alternative to the lunatic types out there (wishing I’d gone to Liberty or somewhere else other than PCC). He was a fundy himself though, just quite a bit saner than most about it.

        26. JohnB – Hey thanks for weighing in. I get upset when I see great men of God (hated on) by others that also claim the name of Christ. You summed up Jerry very good, he was simply a man who loved and served the Lord, and sure he made his share of gaffes. I personally would have preferred he had stayed miles away from the PTL thing, but Jerry doesn’t answer to me. Like King David (I’m gonna get it for comparing Jerry to David) Jerry knew and lived for God, he was dedicated, and like David he had a heart for God. Jerry may have goofed something up yesterday, but he would get up the next day, dust himself off, and set about doing something great for the kingdom of God, I just can’t knock that type of dedication, and wish to be like that myself.

          If you are real familiar with Jerry, you may have met J.O. Grooms, who helped Jerry start the work there in Lynchburg, well I am friends with J.O.’s son, Mike, so I know so many wonderful first-hand account stories about Jerry, like taking off his coat in freezing cold temps to give to wino’s on the street, many times when visiting the destitute, he would leave hundred dollar bills behind. I mean he was helping and loving on folks that could never in this world repay his kindness. Jerry never sought money, like so many pastors do these days, Jerry was brought up in a priviledged home and always had money, he just saw money as a way to accomplish what he felt like God had laid on his heart for him to do.

          I pray to God that I would have the dedication to our Saviour that brother Jerry did.

        27. Greg: “You know it occurs to me to say the heck with SFL, as I have to occasionally do battle with the handful of you, know-it-all fundy liberals. But I just got to thinking, its just a core 4 or 5 of you that continuously push an extreme liberal position, the rest of the good folks, just look at you and laugh, and don’t want to spoil the fun by holding your feet to the fire, like I do, and call you down on your liberal, canned shtick. (and this over-the-top hate, above)”

          Why say this? What are you hoping to accomplish here? It doesn’t have to be win-lose on every disagreement: the world out here is big enough to hold our differing opinions. We can be content to share them and talk about them without convincing everyone to see things our way. I don’t think we need to make SFL into an us-them “battle” – that’s part of why we left fundyism. And “liberal” isn’t an insult; it’s just an descriptor. The post sounds relatively caustic, which perhaps you didn’t intend – I know it’s difficult to get tone over the internet.

        28. JohnB’s defense of Jerry Falwell– the main point of which I take to be “he was much less cray than Bob Jones or Jack Hyles”– is a perfect example of Darrell’s oft-repeated observation that fundamentalists like to demonstrate that they (or, in this case, their allies) are not crazy extremists by pointing out that some other fundamentalists are even nuttier. From the point of view of anyone outside fundamentalism, Falwell was a hard-core fundamentalist who did his best to have his own fringe views enshrined in U.S. law. From the point of view of someone who’s been through PCC or HAC, though, I can see how he might look like a moderate, and compared to those institutions, I can see how Liberty University might look like a legitimate educational organization. I’ve heard (from people who had met him) that Falwell was a likable guy in person. That in no way mitigates the evil of his public actions.

          However, JohnB, your last point is not worthy of the rest of your comments:
          “But hey, someone the left AND the (crazy) right hated so much had to have some redeeming qualities to him.”
          Lots of people have enemies on both the left and the right. Mussolini, Pol Pot, and Stalin, to name some obvious examples. Or, to choose less extreme actors, George W. Bush and Barack Obama. This doesn’t prove anything about whether they are right or not.

        29. Aaagh, I need a new keyboard. If my “Z” key worked all the time, that first sentence would read “… much less CRAZY …”

        30. @Big Gary – I realize we won’t agree on this issue and that isn’t threatening to me. I am long past the defensiveness stage of “having to be right” that so inhabits (and inhibits) many in the the fundy X’er land. It’s very evident we see some things differently. I don’t see Falwell as trying to codify any “fringe beliefs into law” as a large part of the electorate agreed with his stated political goals of making abortion illegal except in the case of rape, incest or the life of the mother, marriage applying only to man and women (a view held by Obama in the ’08 campaign)and strong support of Israel. IMO those are hardly “fringe” positions that he “tried to make law”. I do believe Falwell was a victim in part of a caricature the that was made of him in part because of stupid statements he occasionally made, but also because he had opinions that ran contrary to the marketplace of values he often contended in. He was red meat, and willingly so, to those who would disagree with him. There is a theater if you will, of people who will willingly go at it onscreen who do believe what they are saying but off-screen are friendly. Jerry’s personality was always that of a good-natured warrior. He didn’t have many personal enemies….especially on the non-Christian side. Jerry willingly took the arrows without the whining. But I assure you the Jerry you saw on TV or what was often reported was not the real Jerry. Most anyone who knew Jerry, friend or foe, would agree. But I will still laugh at your funny posts on most things. I share a kindred spirit on many things. I’ve never been an “all or nothing” kind of guy. Heck, I got kicked out of Liberty. 😀

          As for my last paragraph….lol, just some humor.

        31. Naomi – Big Gary brings all of this heat and hate to SFL, but you see some reason to berate me for standing up for the man of God (Falwell), note to Naomi, I don’t care about someone seeing something my way, I care about standing up, for perhaps the greatest christian of modern times. I will not be shut up (unless Darrell pulls the plug) or play nice when I see character assasination on this scale.

        32. For clarification purposes, everyone should know that I don’t worship men, including Falwell, when I speak about what a “great christian” he was, I am recognizing how God uses foolish men, like Falwell, on this planet to accomplish “great and mighty things” He wants to get done. God doesn’t have to do this and yet he does.

        33. ” … the greatest christian of modern times”???

          Never mind. I’m done talking about him (at least for now. The floor’s all yours, Greg. Fire away.

        34. One would think Naomi’s call to just be polite would be acceptable, but of course anything less than 100% endorsement is unacceptable.

          I feel like I have to come up w/ a solid rap parody now. I’m debating between “welcome to the fundy dome”, and “i’m fundy by ll cool g(reg)”. Comments/suggestions appreciated! 🙂

        35. RobM – Does your comedy special come on right after Big Gary’s?

          I have not come w/in 1000 miles of the hate that Big Gary has, and yet its me that needs to comply with some sort of standard that Naomi is suggesting? You know what’s hilarious, I know that you don’t, and can’t even see it, you think you are being completely reasonable, you see, in your liberal mind it was completely fine and justified for Big Gary to attack Jerry Falwell (politically correct, I might add)

          @Big Gary – Believe me you will never have to be concerned about me “firing away” if you keep your vitriolic hate off of men and women of God.

      1. Yes. The world knows Stalin’s and Pol Pot’s names, too. Not that those three are alike, but my point is that fame is not a virtue in itself.

  36. The whole conference is an “astronomical amount” of wasted money. Fundies pomote themselves at any cost and the expense of innocent people trapped in their grips. I’d have more respect for them if they passed out $20.00 bills on a street corner in the ghettos of our country.

    1. What if they passed out tracts that look like money?

      (Don’t know where I got that idea …)

  37. Now that I have come down the thread and the “white people haters” have had their say, maybe I can comment now about a “real” problem I detected.

    At 2:51 the good brother tells us that “Even a lay person can have an active part” Why thank you, I appreciate that!

    1. *like!

      My father in law (IFB preacher) was talking the other night something like “even though he has a SECULAR job…”

      WTF does that mean. I thought as believers everything we do should be holy.

  39. Considering that Fundy men don’t seem to think of women as actual people equal to themselves, it isn’t that unusual that they would be a lot more comfortable around other men than around women.

    1. George! This was supposed to have been a reply to I’m not telling, waaaaaay upthread, about the MC being touchy-feely with other guys.

  41. Wow, what a conference–hyperbole, meaningless catch phrases, white shirts and ties on every man in the place, strained smiles, and tons of managawd ego stroking. Fundylicious!

  42. Sexton flattering Pope says, “God gripped my heart and held me, I believe God held me in His hand during that message” 4:34
    What is he talking about?

    1. My guess is that Sexton was about to get out and walk out on the load of tripe Pope was delivering, but something held him back– either God or the realization that it wouldn’t look good. :mrgreen:

  43. The prayer request at 1:30??? What was that? He said a bunch of standard fundy things, didn’t make any actual request. Although I guess he was put on the spot perhaps.

  44. Is there room for a newbie? Don’t you think that the token black preacher is less about welcoming black people and more about reassuring the white congregation that they’re not being racist? There’s usually a black person or two in the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and in the the Republican party for the same reason. 🙄

    1. Are lots of black people applying to those organizations and being turned down? You can’t force black people to be a part of something.

      1. Thing is, there aren’t a lot of Black people in fundy circles because black people are not made welcome. A very small number decide that the benefits (social, financial, spiritual) outweigh the disadvantages and stick around. Most have more sense.

  45. God uses everybody, even hot blondes (in this case, apparently God is using her to get more boys onto the campus). They could have picked a better spokesguy for the ladies though. Although the silent dude on the right is pretty chiseled (2:39). Also, do they really have the words “Jesus Christ” with a verse number… like we don’t know where his name is in theBible?

    1. It does look to me like the Bible quote has only the words “Jesus Christ” and the verse number.

      That blonde is a little too hot. I can’t help wondering if she’s an aspiring actress making a paid appearance in the video.

      1. I was kind of wondering about that as well. She sure was ready with a great comment. I wonder if the girl in her shadow just envies her or wants to be more than friends. I couldn’t tell.

  46. Okay, I can keep going. I love the mini 3 point sermon at 3:30 by Tim Cruse. Seeing this reminds me of how much the IFB is just a big show. All the music, all the worship, everything is choreographed… it all seems to rehearsed.

  47. I love how he calls it a prediction and not a prophecy. Can’t have that. I mean… what if it doesn’t come true?? 6:10

    1. The prediction was so vague, he doesn’t have to worry about it not coming true. Something is bound to happen eventually that he can call a fulfillment of his prediction.
      It’s an old fortune-teller trick. If you say, “You will get a two-page letter from your cousin Nick tomorrow at 3 p.m.,” it’s easy to test the prediction, but if you say, “Sometime soon, somebody will tell you something important about a family member,” the odds are that something that can be characterized that way will happen– especially since you didn’t name a specific time frame.

  48. I must admit that all I’ve heard and know of Dr. Sexton has been good. What really disturbs me is seeing and hearing Jack Schaap. I also don’t think I could stand a week wearing a suit at a conference.

    Also, I don’t like hero worship. I don’t who this saying is original with but “the best of men are just men at best.”

  49. I really didn’t get a gay vibe from the MC being so hands-on with his pals. I saw it more like a mama tiger carrying around her offspring by the scruff of the neck. LOVED the outfits on the singing trio–truly hideous. Also, there must have been a seminar on how to fold your pocket squares. But the silent fundy in the green tie at 2:35? Way too cute…was convicted of my “unnatural desires” when he came on the screen! LOL! Pray for me!

    1. They sell the pocket squares pre-made. It is just material glued to a piece of cardboard.

  50. I’d love to see/hear that FoxNews facial expression analyst’s take on the guy’s wife at the end of the video. Either he just cracked one off or she’s not to pleased with him. Perhaps both.

    1. Maybe she’s just camera-shy. In any case, we aren’t likely to hear what she’s thinking, since he never lets her speak (except for telling her when to say “Amen”).

Comments are closed.