Friday Challenge: Recommend a Resource

Today’s challenge is to recommend a helpful resource to those who are leaving fundamentalism. Read a good book? Listened to an informative lecture series? Surfed a website that challenged your thinking? Don’t just keep it to yourself!

Here are a few that I recommend…

Understanding Fundamentalism and Evangelicalism by George M. Marsden

If you want to understand fundamentalism you have to go back to the beginning and understand its historical and philosophical roots. Marsden does a bang-up job of putting the entire mess into context.

The Reason For God by Tim Keller

When leaving fundamentalism the temptation is often to swing to the extreme and leave Christianity altogether. Here a very non-fundamentalist Tim Keller makes a compelling case for why Christianity still makes sense in spite of people who may abuse it. Also check out Mere Christianity by C.S Lewis for a classic handling of the same topic.

Apologetics and Outreach lectures taught by Jerram Barrs

A fantastic class on faith and evangelism taught by a fantastic teacher. This completely changed the way I look at a Christian’s mission in the world. Load this one on your iPod and listen to it while you work or drive. You will not be sorry you did.

There are many, many more I could recommend but I’ll let you all have at it…

343 thoughts on “Friday Challenge: Recommend a Resource”

  1. The Apostolic Fathers–reading these cured much of my Fundycostal tendencies. They allowed me to see a realistic picture of the Church’s early years, not the one I had been taught for years!

  2. I recommend:

    No Longer Qivering (yes, it is spelled that way on purpose 🙂 ) http://nolongerquivering.com/ by Vyckie Garrison and others. It’s a support website for people who used to be part of the Quiverfull movement but the advice is universal.

    The Ooze http://theooze.com/ by Spencer Burke. It is a good place to explore other, less rigid approaches to Christianity (especially as it relates to the intersection of faith and daily life.)

  3. Here’s a few books that have helped me…

    The Bible: I actually started to search the scriptures to see what was true and not true in the IFB world, instead of taking for granted what I was told.

    The Prodigal God (Tim Keller) I was for many years the older brother that Tim writes about (though I was saved).

    Transforming Grace (Jerry Bridges): The title pretty much speaks for itself.

    Revival and Revivalism (Iain Murray): A good history on what true revival is vs the manufactured revival so common in IFB and other circles.

    A Pastor’s Sketches (Ichabod Spencer) A man who ministered in the 1800’s and allowed the Spirit to work in the hearts of unbelievers (in comparison to the repeat-after-me Hyles type of conversions).

    1. I was just about to recommend The Prodigal God myself. Since it seems that fundamentalism reveres the older brother and demonizes the younger, this could be a very interesting read for a recent escapee.

    2. Ditto on the Bible, we listened on CD every night while in bed. It did not take long to detect the distortions coming from the ManOGawds.

  4. Well, one of the sites that I’ve followed for years is http://www.sweepingcobwebs.com.

    It’s just a site for chicks who used to feel like they had to be the perfect fundie Christian Stepford wife (something that I was pressured to be in the fundie world). It exposes the truth behind perfect fundie Stepford Wife websites and their writers. It’s a lot like this one in that there’s a ton of satire. It’s full of commenters from all faiths, and I’ve learned a lot about other faiths from them, especially from the Catholics. The original site that it critiqued bashed Catholics in the typical fundie way. It was interesting to read what the Catholics at SC had to say. Very enlightening.

    But, its also a little community. Ladies go there to share their own lives and there’s a lot of support.

  5. There’s really no substitute for the Church Fathers and medieval Christians. C.S. Lewis and G.K. Chesterton (especially Orthodoxy and The Everlasting Man) have also been huge influences on my thinking.

    Another big name for me is Peter Kreeft. I read his Unaborted Socrates and Socrates Meets Jesus in college and was blown away–at last, someone was saying and proving that you could use your mind to understand God.

    It may not do for others what it did for me, but The Divine Comedy, by Dante Alighieri, is probably what really got me started on the long road out of Fundamentalism. I read at a critical time in high school and found it was everything that Fundamentalism was not–deep, logical, and artistically beautiful.

    1. I appreciate Kreeft’s work on explaining the philosophical roots of religious thought. He has some lecture series out as well for those who would rather listen than read.

  6. Fundamentalism is largely a misunderstanding of hermeneutics. One of the best ways to recover from it is to relearn how to interpret Scripture. Two resources were helpful to me, a free booklet called Never Read a Bible Version from Stand to Reason, and How to Read the Bible For All It’s Worth by Gordon Fee and Douglas Stewart.

    Links for the above resources:
    http://bit.ly/j6jZ3
    http://amzn.to/hqZLa2

  7. Blue Like Jazzby Don Miller, made me realize that not all Christians were formed in the IFB mold. It made me streatch beyond my self imposed boundries and see that God is bigger than the IFB box.

    Love Your God with All Your Mind: The Role of Reason in the Life of the Soul, by J.P. Moreland show that you don’t have to check you brains at the door in order to be a good Christian, in fact, you are sinning against your creator if you do.

    unChristianby Gabe Lyons and David Kinnaman opened my eyes to not only how the world views (especially Americanized)Christianity but how those who have been brought up in the “Church” view it as well.

    I personally began following a Reformed Path and guys like RC Sproul, John Piper and even McArthur have helped me in that regard. I do not agree totally with any one camp or person in that camp. I have had to deconstruct my world view and several of the ones mentioned have helped me as I reconstruct my worldview based more on true Biblical principles and less on bunker mentality indoctrination.

    1. I like your suggestions. unChristian was the final straw for me. I left fundyland immediately after reading that.

      Piper, Keller, Sproul, Macarthur…all great choices too.

  8. Just an observation. Lots of CS Lewis, Tim Keller and books by Reformed authors being listed.

    I’m wondering if it is fairly common for those who left fundyland to end up in a Reformed denomination – I did.

    And if it is common, what about it makes it common? For me, I grew up with a “This is how it is, you don’t need to know” type behavior and now Sunday School is like a mini-seminary that drives you to study more.

    In Fundyism, grace is a word that is used liberally and thrown out of context. Grace is so much more, and understanding it has changed my life tremendously.

      1. Anglicans are traditionally Reformed, as are Lutherans, Presbyterians and a tiny sliver of Baptists.

        1. They certainly all came out of the Reformation, but I thought that “Reformed” (with a capital “R”) more often referred to the churches in the Calvinist family tree, such as the Dutch Reformed, Presbyterian, and Baptist churches.

    1. I’m wondering if it is fairly common for those who left fundyland to end up in a Reformed denomination – I did. And if it is common, what about it makes it common?

      I’ll take a stab at that question, because it was kind of on my mind with the Tim Keller recommendations.

      My personal feeling is that authors like Keller have a similar reading, similar hermeneutic of the bible as fundamentalists (I am open to being corrected on this because I was a conservative evangelical, never a fundamentalist per se). Where they differ is in the practice. There is a lot more grace and flexibility in lifestyle, rules, etc.

      But their reading of the bible is still centered in biblical inerrancy, and a particular interpretation of the bible being the “correct” and “necessary” reading. I think that is why many of the “New Calvinists” fall into the category of seriously questioning if the non-Reformed are really Christians (Al Mohler has done this, among others). To me, that sounds an awful lot like fundamentalism, just without the traditional Independent Baptist accoutrements.

      At any rate, that’s why I like authors that move further from fundamentalism. I’ll add Rachel Held Evans, “Evolving in Monkeytown” to the list of helpful books. It would be at the top of my list. Great post by the way.

      1. To correct my comment, not that New Calvinists would necessarily question if non-Reformed are Christians, but sometimes question if they are really passionate and committed Christians. Because if they were, they would realize that they should be Reformed. My apologies to anyone offended by my error.

        1. I think that Tim Keller is much more moderate than the other Calvanists (i.e. Mohler and Macarthur). I enjoyed The Reason for God, but you wouldn’t catch me reading anything by Mohler or Macarthur (although I did in the past).

          Btw, I agree, Evolving in Monkey Town is a great book.

        2. I don’t really understand. Are you for or against this “New Calvinism”. Personally, I think it’s rubbish. Fruit inspecting has become a full time ministry now, and every single New Calvinist that has one or two Washer or Conway sermons under their belt thinks they now have the authority to go around judging everyone elses visible relationship with God.

    2. I think you’re right. My first thought was Keller as well–for me it was sermons, particularly the parables and Hebrews series. I listen to “Christ Our Advocate” over and over.

      Maybe Reformed is where you’re likely to end up if you accept the fundamental (heh) premises of (little f) fundamentalism, and you try to trace them out to conclusions minus the “big F” of Fundamentalism?

      For me there was also a function of being confronted with church history while attending a Catholic university and rubbing shoulders with a lot of devout Catholics. I felt I needed to back up and try to figure out where my branch of Christianity went wrong.

    3. Many who leave the fundamental movement become Reformed because they generally have a high view of Scriptures and believe in the sovereignty of God (which is comforting for people who have suffered and need answers).

    4. @Apitome – You took the words right out of my mouth. I have seen this many times, folks end up going the reformed route after leaving fundyism. I find it extremely ironic, that they leave a faith that is all about following outward standards, from having a man tell you what movies to watch, what music to listen to how to dress, and then go to a system of belief which is man-made, its nearly unbelieveable.

      When any man’s name is attached to a belief system or religion my antennas go waaaay up – think Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Smith, John Calvin.

      Grace sometimes is taken out of context in fundyism, but I got a very good understanding of Grace while there and I really would have to disagree with you as it relates to calvinism, I actually believe, at least from my experiece in fundyism, that they understood and taught about grace much more clearly than the calvinists. I’m not just throwing this out there, I have read Lewis, Calvin, Piper, McArthur, btw I have learned some wonderful things from these guys, but I feel they don’t understand grace and therefore can’t teach about it.

      I don’t want to stir up any storms with my reformed christian brothers here, I know you love the Lord as much as I do, but I cannot buy any of the TULIP, and can easily refute it (and have)from scripture. We just have to agree to disagree.

      Btw, I’m not an armenian, just absolutely not a calvinist.

      1. Greg, Be careful not to denigrate Biblical Christianity now known unfortunately as Calvinism as a “system of belief which is man-made”.

        You may not accept or understand Reformed theology, but to label much of Christian belief as man made is dangerous ground. Try reading the beauty that is the
        Heidelberg Catechism. Note the numerous Biblical references. http://carm.org/heidelberg-catechism

        1. Wout – Believe me I’m not trying to be disrespectful to anyone’s belief, I have family and friends that are calvinists – got a great friend that runs a business here in town, and he loves to see me coming, dang the customers, he feeds me lots of coffee and we get out the bibles and we will go for hours, he loves it and so do I. I can by now refute calvinists beliefs with my eyes shut. I understand calvinism better than most calvinists.

          It’s really funny and I know this is not the place to debate it, but my beliefs and calvinism come real close together at times, but just can’t quite make it. And I always end my “debates” with calvinists by saying “Look I know you believe in election and all that implies and I know you also believe in pre-destination and all that implies, but please for me because I love and care for you, please call on Jesus Christ to save you just as the entire new testament teaches because Jesus came to planet Earth to seek and to save that which was lost.”

          Please my reformed brethern don’t be offended by any of these comments, I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.

          I will read that catchism you suggested.

        2. Greg, you state: “please call on Jesus Christ to save you just as the entire new testament teaches because Jesus came to planet Earth to seek and to save that which was lost.” Exactly. That is definitely a Christian and therefore also a Reformed view. Of course Reformed believers need Christ, and to suggest that “calvinists” do not accept Christ as Saviour is demeaning. As for Election, all those who believe that Christ died for them and believe He rose again and will come again, ARE Elect!

        3. @Greg,

          I can by now refute calvinists beliefs with my eyes shut. I understand calvinism better than most calvinists.

          I cannot buy any of the TULIP, and can easily refute it (and have)from scripture.

          that’s a bit braggadocio there Greg. And your presumption that Doctrines of Grace folks are not saved (or at least not saved correctly)…

          because I love and care for you, please call on Jesus Christ to save you just as the entire new testament teaches because Jesus came to planet Earth to seek and to save that which was lost.

          …is a bit arrogant to say the least. It seems your fundie luggage followed you when you left.

        4. I answered Wout and Mark Thomas but it ended up way at the end of the posts (where it belongs, right)

          @Don – Yes it does sound like bragging, and yet I don’t know how else to explain it. But what is really irritating with your response to me, is that I manned up and said I could be wrong. When I debate someone and that person says this is what I believe but I could be wrong, I can respect that. Make no mistake I can refute calvinism from scripture somewhat easily by now, it is a fact!

          For the record (again)I did not say or imply that reformed folks aren’t saved. I do state emphatically that based on the Word of God you must call on Jesus to save you in order to be saved. Whoever calls and believes on Him will be saved and if not you are condemned.

          Pressing submit, don’t know where it will end up.

    5. In my experience, a lot of the popular calvinists don’t teach grace. I cannot comprehend the “Grace” of the Calvinist God. I don’t mean to argue, but I just cannot comprehend how it is gracious that God chose to save some, even though all were worthy of death. If He is so gracious, why not save all? Or at least most? It seems that God’s grace is a lesser attribute than His judgment, since he needs to demonstrate his judgment and holiness by damning billions, but demonstrating his mercy and grace by saving a few.

      Many fundies have left fundieism only to take another works sanctification path – Lordship Salvation. They rightly reject “quick prayerism or abc pray after me”, but then think that their works somehow prove their salvation, and turn into fruit inspectors, and their testimonies become “I thought I was a Christian, but until I gave everything to Jesus and turned from all my sin I found out I really wasn’t a Christian”, and it becomes all about them, and their testimonies become about how much they gave up for Jesus (incidently, most of these testimonies come from newly reformed).

      I’d rather not argue about calvinism. I know some people somehow find it comforting, and I tend to agree with a lot of what Calvinists teach.

      1. Just to clarify, when I say “they don’t teach grace”, I mean they don’t teach the pure grace of God – they do teach their “doctrines of grace”, but I have never heard a popular Calvinist understand grace (maybe Steve McVey is an exception, although he denies being a calvinist, he puts forth a pretty strong argument for it in “Walking in the Will of God”).

      2. exIFB – Stand by for their “God is Sovereign sermons,” btw He is, just not the way I and millions of others view His Sovereignity.

        I will say this about your first paragraph Amen, Amen and Amen – It’s difficult to recognize the God I know and serve in your first paragraph.

  9. On my website I list the three top resources I think will help us understand, form our thoughts about and heal from the vices of, fundamentalism. For the discussion’s sake, I will list them along with another book that I am planning to add to the list.

    Transforming Grace, Jerry Bridges
    NewTired of Trying to Measure Up, Jeff VanVonderen
    The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, Jeff VanVonderen
    What’s So Amazing about Grace?, Philip Yancey

    As I always recommend, eat the meat and leave the bones.

      1. More Heresy in the eyes of the Fundy. Especially the chapter where he deals with his friend’s homosexuality. That was the fuse that caused that particular bomb to explode.

      2. Our Bible study for ladies at the base chapel is “What’s So Amazing about Grace”. Wonderful! I missed last week because of weather and that was the chapter I most wanted to get in on! It was about how legalism destroys grace! sigh

    1. I second “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse.” It helped me SO much to pinpoint exactly what was wrong with my ex-church, why I was right to leave it, and get rid of the “maybe it’s just my bad heart” thinking. It gave me a whole new perspective on Scripture and how to read it, and I don’t think I’ll ever let someone use Scripture to manipulate or put me in bondage again.

      I lent it to my parents to read but I don’t think they took it to heart at all or they wouldn’t have left one horrible fundy church only to go to another not-quite-so-bad-but-still-fundy church. =\

      1. When I was still Fundy, I read Van Vonderen and thought he was just picking on Fundies because he described my church a little too closely. (Yeah, it took me a while to get the hint… but when I got it, I _got_ it.)

        Now, I’ll recommend pretty much anything he writes.

  10. I’ll throw in a few here:

    – Most of Brennan Manning’s stuff, but especially “Ragamuffin Gospel”

    – Henri Nouwen’s “The Return of the Prodigal”

    – Donald Miller – start with “Blue Like Jazz” and go forward from there

    – John Eldridge – “Epic” and find the video if you can

    – Darin Hufford’s “The Misunderstood God”

    Dare to think – God actually wants you to do that!

    😯

        1. That’s it, Stephen, now you’re on my Not-Speaking- To-List.

          It’s getting rather long, actually. For the record, I learned the proper format from my fundy u, so its official. 😉

          And, abiding by fundie not-speaking-to rules, speaking to will commence again whenever I deem appropriate or if you want to give me money.

    1. I have to agree that coming here really helped me understand that it wasn’t all in my head, that the hurt and guilt and fear weren’t my fault, and I’m alone.

  11. it obviously isn’t for everyone, but a good greek grammar (i.e. “basics of biblical greek grammar” by mounce, “greek grammar beyond the basics” by wallace) can be instrumental to helping an IFB preacher boy to get started on the road out of fundamentalism. with a bit of dedication you CAN teach greek (or hebrew) to yourself, and for me personally a knowledge of those languages was instrumental in helping me see the theological, exegetical, and homiletical absurdity of much fundamentalism. it quickly destroyed the KJV-onlyism for me, and also helped me to see the huge difference between preachers who were careful with the Bible (usually NOT fundamentalists) and those who were reckless and twisted it to either fit their alliterated points or their own opinions on what they wanted to harp on. my ex father-in-law (a fundy pastor who “discipled” me) and my then-current fundy pastor both had more than a hint of suspicion towards me, and that led me to start rethinking how well i actually fit in with the fundy circle.

    1. If you can get folks past the KJVO then they are on their way to thinking and that is a major first thread in unraveling the fundie tapestry. or foundation of the fundie house of cards… whichever illustration you want to use…

        1. And while I love the Authorized KJV and I memorized scripture from the KJV… it it the idea that it is the ONLY english translation that we can use, that must be cut down, pulled out and unsown. The exclusive mindset spills over from Bible version to all other aspects of Christian life and eventually lead to a group think minset or Cult mentality. Take away the sand on which such a midset is built and you can show how dark that mindset is and true light can break through to that dark world.

        2. leave out the “n” spelling it onetime and the “d” the next… put then to together and what have you got… m-i-n-d-s-e-t

          disclaimer:
          george in on vacation this week and fella is filling in for him. (and we thought george was bad….) 😯

  12. All my fundy church family. 17 yrs of seeing what fundyism produced. The endless hypocracy, mindless following of the MOG compared with the Bible was the best resource.
    (I discovered this site a few months back and I can’t stop.) ❗

    1. Frank Schaeffer is a brilliant writer. I also love ‘Crazy for God’, i can’t recommend his work enough.

    2. We listened to Crazy for God on audio while driving from NY to CA. It was excellent! His reading of it was so good. I highly recommend the audio to anyone who has time for it.

  13. The Fall of the Evangelical Nation: The Surprising Crisis Inside the Church
    by Chritine Wicker
    HarperOne, 2008
    http://www.amazon.com/Fall-Evangelical-Nation-Surprising-Crisis/dp/0061117161#reader_0061117161
    Wicker, who comes from Southern Baptist roots, was the Religion writer for the Dallas Morning News for a number of years (I met her a couple of times when we both lived in Dallas). Here, she gives powerful evidence that the Evangelical movement was never as large or powerful as claimed, and is now in steep decline. The reasons she gives for its decline are especially interesting. Wicker defines “Evangelicals” soemwhat more broadly than this site defines “Fundies,” but for the most part she is talking about the same religious tendencies and the same bunch of people.

    Works of Henri Nouwen
    (Especially an essay titled “The Christ of the Americas”)
    http://www.henrinouwen.org/shopcart/index.php?cPath=31_65&osCsid=6665001989c3dfe74be8e42f26f6b437
    The late Henri Nouwen was a Catholic priest of a rather ecumenical bent. (Did I just lose you?)
    Reading the essay cited above, many years ago, helped convince me that Christianity was relevant to the struggles then going on in the world, as well as in my own life.

    1. BG, the Wicker book sounds really interesting. The description of the work sounds like it buttresses my suspicion that the Fundy/Evangelical movement/Church is nothing but an empty suit…it huffs and puffs and then dies with a squeek.

      1. Interestingly, the week after I read this book, it was reported in the press that the Crystal Cathedral (founded by Robert H. Schuller) in southern California, often cited as the arcehtypal “Megachurch,” had filed for bankruptcy reorganization. Many of the reasons were the same ones outlined for Megachurches in general (not just Schuller’s) in Wicker’s book. The book almost predicts the Crystal Cathedral crisis.

    2. Henri Nouwen? It is very dangerous for a Christian to quote a Catholic writer – it means you agree with Catholicism which would put your very Salvation in doubt… It happened to someone I know, who happened to be a very gifted Bible teacher and writer, whom I respected greatly and got to know well (he died earlier this year.) He made the mistake of quoting Henri Nouwen in one of his articles, amd was denounced on once of those Fundamentalist Heresy-Hunting websites as “just another Gospel-hating Ecumenist”. You really can’t make this sort of stuff up….

      1. PS CS Lewis is another hate-figure for some Fundamentalists. They say he was never a Christian at all, so stay abay from his writings

        1. C. S. Lewis was an early step away from the IFB for me before I ever knew I’d be leaving. My parents said he was “bad” and didn’t read him (thus couldn’t discuss his writing with me), but I was challenged and inspired by what he wrote. Even when I didn’t agree with him, I realized that he was a committed Christian. Having always been taught that most people not in the IFB were unsaved, it was eye-opening to me.

        2. PW – I agree with you (again) it was enlightening for me to read him (Lweis)and see how much he loved the Lord even though I didn’t agree with on everything he said, and I really did love “Mere Christianity” I read it again every couple of years.

          Someone said above and let me shout it here, the absolute best book for helping one out of fundyism, calvinism or any other ism is the precious book of life, the “Bible” I see the great enthusiam expressed over the books and authors recommended here, many I am familiar and have read, but they don’t even touch scriptures. It frankly worries me over the near-worship of Piper in reformed circles, while I like Piper and have some of his books, he is in no way worthy of this “worship” he receives from “his” flock, I’m frankly worried for my reformed brethern. I feel the same concern for evangelicals “worshipping” Rick Warren.

          I don’t follow men, except the precious Saviour! Following men is exactly why we ended up messed up in the first place, our righteousness is like filthy rags, and guess what? So is theirs.

        3. Greg, I completely agree with you about the Bible. My top advice to someone leaving fundyism is this: Go to the Christian bookstore. Pick up a Bible that’s NOT a KJV or even the NKJV (for me it was the NAS, then the NIV). Start reading it, with no “tinted glasses” on. It’ll be the best thing to ever happen to you.

          The reason I recommend another translation is that when you continue to read the KJV while coming out of fundyism, it’s too hard not to have your mind bringing up what you’ve always been taught about the passage you’re reading. Reading a new translation will make it sound completely fresh!

        4. @Greg, while I’m a voracious reader (although I do read more fiction than non-fiction), I will also say that it was the Bible more than anything that convinced me that many things I’d been taught were Biblical actually weren’t. I appreciate and learn from other Christians, but I don’t follow anyone, though I respect many. It’s interesting that some people are trying to dismiss my husband’s convictions to take our church in a missional direction by saying that he’s following “a man.” We’re not! I think it falls under Jesus’ teaching about not calling any man father or teacher because GOD is the One we must follow.

        5. @Mrs.SarahN, I agree! Reading the Bible in different versions was completely eye-opening and invigorating to me. God’s Word hit me anew with passages that I either had heard so many times that I just went into passive mode when I heard them or passages that had been wrongly interpreted or ignored in my IFB church.

        6. PW, with regards to being missional equaling following a man – Jesus said, “As the Father has sent me, I’m sending you.” You ARE following a man…just the one who is also God. 😉

  14. –The Myth of a Christian Nation by Gregory Boyd

    –Heaven is a Place on Earth by Michael Wittmer

    –Anything by N.T. Wright

    1. Fundie Pastor – I was looking all the way through the comments today to see if someone had mentioned it, (Grace Awakening) was the very first book I thought of.

      I was reading Chuck Swindoll so many years ago and he actually was probably most responsible for helping me not to drink that last bit of Kool-Aid of fundyism. Thank God.

      As much as I appreciate his work though I would caution everyone not to put him or any man up on a pedestal that only Jesus deserves.

    1. I actually have Rice’s “Our God breathed book, The Bible” very good. He wasn’t KJV like Riplinger, Gipp ect.

    2. Oh my goodness! I’m in serious trouble. I just got my hair cut yesterday. And to add to the sin, I looked so good that the cute barista at Starbucks was flirting with me. 😉

  15. Forgotten God by Francis Chan is a good one. I don’t think we really know what the Holy Spirit is capable of.

    He gave a good example that if we were all on an island and read about the Holy Spirit would we have the same understanding (or lack of understanding) of him as we do in America.

    nicodemusatnite.blogspot.com

  16. The late Michael Spencer(aka The Internet Monk)’s book _Mere Churchianity_ is intelligent, funny, and honest reading, as is his website, being continued by a group of his friends and colleagues after his death earlier this year. As a guide through what he called “the Post-Evangelical wilderness,” both are excellent. Chaplain Mike, the main voice of IM since Michael Spencer died, is a man with much good to say, but be sure to read the archives.

    1. I have read “Mere Churchianity”. I can only imagine what it would do to a Fundy’s blood-pressure… It rattled my cage a bit, but most of it renonated very strongly with me.

  17. For me it was rather organic. So history books, the Bible and in particular church history.

    Also I was very blessed by my first and second church after BJU. Stradford Park in Champaign IL and Park Street Church in Boston. Both opened my eyes to what Christianity was like outside of Fundy land.

  18. This book was a game changer for me.

    Who Wrote the Bible – Richard Friedman

    http://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291993835&sr=8-1

    From the Amazon Review:

    “”J,” “P,” “E,” and “D” are the names scholars have given to some authors of the Bible, and, as such, they are very important letters to a lot of people. Churches have died and been born, and millions of people have lost faith or found it, because of the last two centuries of debate about who, exactly, wrote the canonical texts of Christianity and Judaism. Richard Elliott Friedman’s survey of this debate, in Who Wrote the Bible?, may be the best written popular book about this question. Without condescension or high-flown academic language, Friedman carefully describes the history of textual criticism of the Bible–a subject on which his authority is unparalleled (Friedman has contributed voluminously to the authoritative Anchor Bible Dictionary). But this book is not just smart. Perhaps even more impressive than Friedman’s erudition is his sensitivity to the power of textual criticism to influence faith.”

    1. I haven’t read Friedman’s book, but definitely second the suggestion to read books on the history of biblical scholarship in general. One I really loved because it’s so thorough and clear is How to Read the Bible by James Kugel (focused on the Old Testament). Bart Ehrman’s Misquoting Jesus and Jesus, Interrupted (focused on the NT, esp. the Gospels and Paul’s epistles). Kugel in particular really opened my eyes to how completely unsupportable biblical inerrancy is – and IMO, biblical inspiration, period, though this isn’t Kugel’s position as an Orthodox Jew – given the clear historical record.

      1. Bart Ehrman (Moody Graduate) is a good read, but I recommend starting with a basic understanding of the Documentary Theory. Friedman is great reading – he gives the Old Testament stories CONTEXT, which they don’t get from the flat reading Fundy’s give them. He makes the O.T come alive in ways Dr. Rude and OT Survey couldn’t.

        1. Kugel gives a pretty good history of OT documentary theory in his book, and I think first half of Misquoting Jesus is about documentary theory for the NT, so both provide context. And Kugel definitely makes the OT come to life! I really couldn’t recommend it highly enough. I’ll have to check out Friedman sometime.

    2. @Dan- many non-fundy scholars also reject the documentary hypothesis.

      conservative evangelical:
      1. introduction to the old testament by gleason archer (http://www.amazon.com/Survey-Old-Testament-Introduction/dp/0802484344/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1292010981&sr=1-1)
      2. genesis in NICOT by victor hamilton (http://www.amazon.com/Book-Genesis-International-Commentary-Testament/dp/0802825214/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1292012136&sr=8-1)

      jewish:
      1. radday, et al (http://acl.ldc.upenn.edu/J/J86/J86-4006.pdf)

      tradition history:
      1. oral world and written word: ancient israelite literature by susan niditch (http://www.amazon.com/Oral-World-Written-Word-Literature/dp/0664219462/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1292014013&sr=1-1).
      2. how the bible became a book by william scheidewind (http://www.amazon.com/How-Bible-Became-Book-Textualization/dp/0521536227/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1292013126&sr=1-1-spell).

  19. The trilogy of books by Randall Arthur
    -Wisdom Hunter
    -Jordan’s Crossing
    -Betrayals
    He was an IFB missionary under BIMI and was shunned for his questioning of the system.

    For women..Captivating by Stasi Eldredge
    or anything by John Eldredge

    Of course…The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse by Vondervan and
    Grace Walk by Steve Mc Vey

    and women if you think you just might want to go back to fundyland read “Created to Be His Helpmeat” by the Pearls …you will want to stick knives into your eyes and run in circles screaming…

    1. So you recommend that women should read something that makes them want to stick knives in their eyes and run in circles screaming? 👿

      1. I say its better then then the slow death of going back into extreme fundamentalism…
        …sometimes I have these days where my hubby says, you wanna come to church with me this week? (He is still IFBX) and I think, ” How bad can it be?” Kinda like when you go back home for the holidays thinking its gonna be better this time…
        you know?
        The after effect of walking into the fundy world again- I end up getting tics and triggers and flashes of death wishes on myself for a month afterwards..
        This way..a woman reads the book, runs screaming and wants to stick knives in her eyes and doesn’t go back..its all good. :mrgreen:

        1. I have hesitated to add this but a former staff member and graduate of one of the “mecca’s” of fundamentalism I’ve been through a literal ripping away from the IFB world these past 2 years. Demonized, shunned and (I am coming to see with help) spiritually abused I am slowly on a journey to discover truth and who I am in Christ. I’ve messed up, I’m broken and I don’t have the answers just lots and lots of questions..but my blog is a place where I am working at creating a healing community of grace givers. I can’t do it alone and would love some of you amazing folks to share your stories and your voices… http://journeytobeloved.blogspot.com if you care to.

      2. I think it’s more along the lines of making them remember the reason they left fundyism in the first place.

        1. Yes, I know, my sarcasm just got the better of me. There’s nothing quite so enlightening as a bad example.

    2. HAHA! I remember reading that book by the Pearls … I was pretty heavily steeped in fundamentalism at the time, so I wasn’t too horrified what the book taught, but my then-boyfriend (now husband) who was not fundy at all, was HORRIFIED for me. He is awesome. He completely disagreed with the ideas in the book and expressed disgust when I’d tell him what I was being taught.

  20. TrueFaced – by Bill Thrall, Bruce McNichol, and John Lynch. Really helps me see how I need to let Jesus be the only defense of my life – not running around like a chicken with my head cut off, like I have to prove I’m not the dirty rotten sinner that I am.

  21. A great book for challenging the ahistorical narrative about “traditional” family values and gender roles is Sexual Revolution in Early America by Richard Godbeer. He shows that there was quite a lot of illicit sex, common law marriage, and divorce going on in Puritan communities, and that there was very explicit homoeroticism in how Puritan men talked about their relationship with Jesus – literally in terms of Jesus being their lover, coming into their bedchamber, and ravishing them. Stuff that would make Mark Driscoll’s head spin 🙂 It’s an academic book so probably the best bet for finding a print copy is through the library; the ebook is normal price, though.

    1. Hm, must go look.

      Other books I recommend to women coming out of fundyland:

      “Ten Lies the Church Tells Women” by J. Lee Grady
      — Charismatic, so I can’t give this to everyone; but there’s just enough fundy/charismatic crossover in North Florida to do this.

      “What Paul Really Said About Women” by John Temple Bristow
      — more for a general audience

      “Good News For Women” by Rebecca Groothuis
      — She lays out the flaws in much fundy/conservative teaching about women. She mentions that some believe, for example, that men are human beings and women are merely “sexual beings”? Really? *gaaaag* (Then of course she rips that apart.)

      For men who have questions about the fundy views of so-called “sex roles” (a term less than 40 years old, BTW):

      “Beyond Sex Roles” by Gilbert Bilezikian.
      — This man is decidedly *not* a feminist, and will say so to your face. He is, however, an advocate of Biblical equality and someone who knows both sides of the issue very well. It took a lot of soul-searching, love for his family, and courage for him to change his mind.

      Anything Jeff Van Vonderen writes.

      1. I actually just finished Good News For Women last night and would heartily second that recommendation. Discovering Biblical Equality: Complementarity Without Hierarchy is also quite good, though I haven’t quite finished it yet (it’s a bit of a door stopper). I’m only a chapter or so into Ten Lies the Church Tells Women but am enjoying it so far. And of course there’s plenty of free resources at CBE:

        http://www.cbeinternational.org/

        I’m not exaggerating when I say these books and the CBE site have salvage save my faith.

        1. 😀 I haven’t actually joined (yet) but am considering it. Maybe once I get my Christmas money…

      1. I think PW can think for herself on her own, without comments from men telling her how to do it “right.”

        1. @Naomi – I’m sorry I violated “your” rules, I just wish someone would have informed that you owned this site and that you police it so vigorously.

          Most people would know that I was complimenting PW, and I didn’t realize that I had to be a female to do that.

          You seem like a very natsy, bitter person.

        2. 😯 😆

          It’s possible PW didn’t think you were being patronizing; I was just saying what I thought, based on how it sounded to me. Perhaps there was a miscommunication of tone; it happens sometimes on the internet.

        3. It’s all OK here! 🙂

          And you’re totally right about how hard it is to communicate tone on the internet! I’m glad for the little smiley faces that sometimes help, but even they are not always sufficient.

      1. I do, Greg! 🙂 BTW, I want to never, ever turn away from the truths of God’s Word or deny Jesus Christ in any way. He is my Hope, my Righteousness, the only Way to heaven! May we all enjoy enjoy the good parts and spit out the bones of any books we read or preachers we listen to!

        And your encouragement warms my soul because there are people who are accusing my husband of teaching lies and preaching “another Gospel” (which he’s NOT), and it’s so hard to hear those criticisms.

        1. PW – That has really got to be tough when you are excited about all the “new” things that God is showing you and you just want to share these wonderful, new things, and you “recognize” that many of the old paths really aren’t beneficial for the body of Christ. The great thing, of course, is that the Lord is leading this move (He is faithful) and you also have a faithful and strong partner to walk this path with you.

          If He takes care of the sparrows, how much more you and your husband.

  22. This is the book that changed my life and took me out of fundamentlism forever.

    “Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The attack on “Romanism” by “Bible Chrisians” by Karl Keating.

    http://www.amazon.com/Catholicism-Fundamentalism-Attack-Romanism-Christians/dp/0898701775/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291995932&sr=8-1

    This book changed my life. As a fundie, I thought I knew what Catholics believed. Not only was I wrong, I had been deceived by many years of listening to other people who had been deceived but who didn’t have a clue about what the Catholic Church actually teaches. There are myths passed on about what Protestant think the Church teaches. These myths are “busted” by Karl Keating’s book. It a great book, its interesting, and its not too long or too technical. Even if you aren’t interested in becomeing a Catholic (I wasn’t, but I look where I am now), this book is interesting because it uncovers the source of the Fundamentalist mythis about the Catholic Church.

      1. Love Peter Kreeft. Also, Stephen K. Ray’s “Crossing the Tiber” is enlightening for those coming from a Baptist background with questions about the Catholic Church.

        One of the best books I’ve read in the past couple of years is “Jesus of Nazareth” by Pope Bendict XVI.

      1. Read that one several years ago–it was good! It would probably cause some Fundy’s head to explode.

      2. Jordan, were you at BJ long enough to hear anything from Jason Ormiston (he spoke in chapel once that I can remember)? I took two semesters of Doctrines from him my last year there (07-08), and at one point I know he mentioned that book (and not in an unfavorable light).
        Ormiston was a significant deal in my mind because he was Northland-grad Bible prof. He actually said in class that a “senior member” of the Bible faculty had come to him and privately threatened him his first week there.

        1. ormiston was the one bible teacher i respected, had him for biblical church ministry and doctrines in ’08. didn’t agree with him on everything, but he was definitely legit. he practiced what he preached, and didn’t mince words. BJU could use more faculty like him.

  23. The Bible is the best source for a fundy to counter fundylandism. A different version than what you normally hear is beneficial.

    A book about the ways people can purposefully( or accidentally) twist scripture. Sire, James W. (1980). Scripture Twisting: Twenty Ways the Cults Misread the Bible. Downers Grove: Intervarsity Press. ISBN: 0877846111

    This site contains a checklist to assist identifying a “Christian” cult. http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm

    Dr Camile Lewis’s blog. Dr. Lewis and her husband left BJU (Bob Jones University) http://www.drslewis.org/camille/index.php

    A short brief about God’s love. Something to consider. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/may/23.64.html

    Awesome look at God Love by Norm Rasmussen http://www.precious-testimonies.com/Hope_Encouragement/k-o/LoveOnDustyRoad.htm.

    More about God’s Love. http://www.precious-testimonies.com/TestimonyCategories/GodLovesYou/GodLovesYouIndex.htm

    This is a book that will help explain what has happened to those spiritually abused. Johnson, David & VanVonderen, John (2005). The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse. Minneapolis: Bethany House Publishers ISBN: 0764201379

    This book focuses on helping the abused to recover from being spiritually abused. Blue, Ken (1993). Healing Spiritual Abuse: How to break Free from Bad Church Experiences. Downers Grove: Intervarsity Press. ISBN: 0830816607

    Nothing reaches out to hurting people like God’s grace. Yancey, Philip (2002). What’s So Amazing About Grace? Grand Rapids: Zondervan. ISBN: 0310245656 and McVey, Steve (2004). Grace Amazing. Eugene: Harvest House Publishers. ISBN: 0736911774 and McVey, Steve (2005) Grace Walk. Eugene: Harvest House Publishers. ISBN: 0310245656 and Swindoll, Charles R. (1990). The Grace Awakening. Dallas: Word Publishing. ISBN: 0849907691

    1. And for a moment I thought my favorite resource was taken. Scandalous Freedom is great! I listened to that while I packed my apartment to leave Greenville – and Fundyism – for good. Amazing insights.

  24. God used this book to teach me how to deal with the pain and bitterness caused by leaders within the movement. I recommend it to every young preacher that I know.
    “A Tale of Three Kings” by Gene Edwards

  25. Some of mine were already recommended… but I’ll post them again.

    Crazy Love – Francis Chan

    The Hole in Our Gospel – Richard Stearns

    They Like Jesus but Not the Church by Dan Kimball

    Doctrine by Mark Driscoll

    The Dream Giver by Bruce Wilkinson

    I’m currently reading the Harry Potter series by JK Rowling 😆 does that count?

    1. also I just read the Prodigal God by Tim Keller. Phenomenal book that totally blows the elder brother mentality out of the water.

  26. Just reiterating what some have said here as well:

    1. Going back to the Bible in a translation I could understand (and I’m no dummy, I promise). ESV and NLT have been excellent. And then reading it. Chapters at a time. In context. And suddenly those “proof texts” revert to their real meaning, and it’s breathtaking.

    2. The Prodigal God – Tim Keller

    3. Tired of Trying to Measure Up – VanVonderen (and Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse is a good adjunct, but there is some of that in the first book)

    And yes. This website. Agree.

    1. Yes! For my husband and I, it has been the Bible primarily that kept us from extremism (we kept calling ourselves “balanced”) and is now moving us out. The Bible just doesn’t say what we’ve been taught that it says.

    2. Just a warning – the ESV is translated with a complementarian bias. Passages dealing with marriage and gender roles in the church are translated with English words that don’t accurately capture the Greek meaning, but support more patriarchal interpretations of those passages. I don’t have specific examples off the top of my head, but Suzanne McCarthy has written about this quite a bit on her blog: http://powerscourt.blogspot.com

      1. Grace – I appreciate the warning. I haven’t looked into the ESV very closely, I have noticed that it seems to be the choice for many of the reformed folks. I have found some passages that I don’t like very well, I think I need to look into it quite abit more closely. I use the NIV mostly, and love it.

        Check out the NET bible, just google it and go check it out, it is one of the best free resources for bible study I have ever come across. Everytime I use it I feel like I should have to pay someone, it really is that good.

      2. Not only that, the ESV team started attacking the TNIV really nastily within a matter of weeks after it came out. Their actions were what made me give up on the ESV and move to the NRSV for my formal equaivalence translation needs.

        I have a TNIV, and it did not and does not deserve the attacks it got. (Two, actually, one wide margin and one pocket Bible given to me by grace2live… and both in pink.)

        1. Actually reading the TNIV effectively disillusioned me of any notions I had (thanks to the ESV camp) about the TNIV being such a horrible translation. It’s not (apparently the 9th commandment is non-applicable here), and frankly it’s a pretty darn good translation (better than the ESV IMO). Lately the NRSV and TNIV have become my translations of choice (with the NIV being my third). The CEB is starting to grow on me, too, but it’s only available in the NT right now. I rarely use my ESV anymore.

        2. I bought a TNIV precisely because it was being attacked so vehemently by a certain sector of fundamentalist and near-fundamentalist Christianity. Since I take it to church in a nice Bible case, I haven’t been attacked for it – they can’t tell, since it reads very similarly to the NIV, with which no one has a problem in this church.

        3. Yes, that was quite a nasty smear campaign. I remember hearing all this stuff about a “gender-neutral” NIV bible at church (as a teenager), and our church switched from reading all different translations from the pulpit (but usually the NIV) to ESV only right after the latter was published. Because our church was pretty culty, within 6 months practically everyone in the church had abandoned their old bibles for the ESV only (I did not, as I was creeped out by the speed with which people ditched translations they’d been reading for decades just on the pastors’ say-so). I’m sure it was only a coincidence that the leaders of our denomination are close friends with Wayne Grudem and a number of people on the ESV translating committee.

          I was pretty angry when I learned more about the TNIV later and realized that Grudem and others had pretty blatantly misrepresented, if not lied, about the TNIV, which cannot by any stretch of the imagination be called “gender-neutral.” Oy.

        4. @Grace – yeah, people who think the TNIV gender-neutral have obviously never read *actual* gender-neutral material. Sheesh. I like to fantasize about giving those people reading material that refers to God as She. 😀

          And for the record … in case anyone cares … I don’t think God is female. I don’t think God is male. I think God is bigger than gender because God made both men AND women in God’s own image – God was not big enough for one gender. I also think it’s a shame the English language has no good gender-neutral pronouns to express this, and sometimes do fall to calling God “he” by default (old dog, new tricks, you know).

    1. We just happen to use the ESV at our church, but I own an NIV, NLT, KJV, NKJV, Amplified, Phillips, CEV, and NASB. I want to get The Message too.

    2. I’ll throw another translation out: the NRSV. All the kerfuffle about it from the KJVOs, and it turns out to be a very good study translation. Even my might-as-well-be-fundy husband likes it.

      What’s really cool about the NRSV is that you can get it with the Apocrypha if you choose.

    3. The ESV, NASB, NKJV and the KJV are word for word translations. The NKJV and the KJV adhere to the TR/majority text camp wile the NASB and ESV are Older text camp. (nickle definition) The NIV is a “dynamic equivalent” translation. It really is just a matter of personal preference, but for study I recommend to begin with a word for word translation to begin with and then a good dynamic equivalant translation for comparison. (I recommend the ESV or NASB over the TR/Majority text translations for purely personal convictions.)

      But like it has already been said, when you set aside the KJV biases/bigotry and read Scripture in modern english you see verses take on fresh life and become clear. Passages that were once disjointed and only partially understood due to archaic words, come alive in the ESV especially. (the NASB can be a bit wooden at times.)

      Hope that helps.

  27. Lol…the day I bought my first Non-KJV only Bible and brought home.
    I was shaking and brought it in hidden under my coat then stuffed it into my night dresser for fear of what would happen if hubby saw it.
    I would sneak reading my bible! How pathetic is that! The other day my son caught me reading from it (he’s 9) and wanted to know why it wasn’t a KJV. Then proceeded to find Psalm 1 and show me where the words were different.
    After 6 months my NIV Bible has graduated to being placed on my night stand in clear view.
    Progress.
    Walking away from paralyzing fear.

    1. I’m been privileged to take this journey WITH my husband. It must be very hard to do this on your own – but not alone! God bless!

      BTW, have you read “Hind’s Feet on High Places”? The main character’s name is Much Afraid, but she does step away from her home to follow the Shepherd to the High Places. Your comment about stepping away from paralyzing fear reminded me of that book.

        1. I love how her companions Sorrow and Suffering are transformed! I’m waiting for that transformation in my own life. I don’t really WANT to walk with sorrow and suffering, but following the Shepherd is worth it! And of course, in the process WE are changed as well!

    2. Don’t know your entire situation but if your 9-yr old is asking those type questions already, you could ask him to read his KJV at Act 5:30 and then ask him if they hung a dead Jesus on the cross like the KJV says, and then let him read it in your NIV.

    3. I carry a 4×4 “encyclopedia” myself. NKJV, ESV, NLT, and the Message all in parallel. I love seeing the different takes on a passage.

        1. I have a 4-way with KJV, NIV, NASB, and… oh crud, what is it?.. Amplified, that’s it.

          If you really want to get a mind-blowing book for your Bible collection, get “The Torah: A Women’s Commentary”. It will definitely be on the “liberal” side for many of those just out of Fundamentalism and even many who are still conservative and moderate evangelical, but so what? It’s still worth having. A different translation of the Pentateuch, plus useful historical commentary and other information from the Jewish perspective.

    4. You should definitely read Bart Ehrman’s books – in Misquoting Jesus, I think it is, he talks about how we got the manuscripts from which the KJV was translated. They’re practically the most inaccurate and error-ridden manuscripts of the Bible we have! It might be in Jesus, Interrupted, but I’m pretty sure it’s Misquoting Jesus.

      1. Grace – There is no possible way for me in this brief space to explain the KJV and the manuscripts that support it and the transmission of those manuscripts down through history. Real brief, the OT of the KJV follows the Hebrew Masoretic text, there is virtually no argument over these writings, the Dead Sea Scrolls which were nearly 1000 years older than any other manuscripts, going all the way back to 100-200 b.c. confirms the masoretic texts, thus confirming the KJV OT. Now onto the NT, the KJV follows the Textus Receptus, most scholars recognize this as a very good, allbeit, relatively young manuscript, actually it is one of about 50 complete greek new testaments. One of my hot buttons in studying all this was to prove that the KJV was an inferiour translation, after studying the subject for some time I do believe that there are better translations but the manuscript evidence behind the KJV is good, as a matter of fact it is better than I originally thought before I started to study the matter, btw those KJV translators were very good, not God’s, like the kjvonly’s would have you believe, but very good and their work has stood the test of time. The problem comes with the KJV in its antiquated elizabethean, 17th century english, it just needs updating, say every 50 years and that stopped in 1769 with its last revision.

        I have said on more than one occasion that I would like to have a bible with the masoretic text and the Textus Receptus in everyday english and btw the NKJV isn’t it.

  28. Wow, I love having long booklists – this is awesome!

    I could echo what everyone else said here, as many of those books are already on my shelf, but I’ll add a couple:

    Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend
    Putting a Face on Grace by Richard Blackaby
    If God is Good by Randy Alcorn

    1. Ooh yes, I read “Boundaries” this year and it changed my life. It is not so much about recovering from fundamentalism/spiritual abuse as it is showing you how to think for yourself, resist being put under guilt, and how to stand up for yourself (all of which you have problems doing after years or a whole life under fundyism). It basically tells you how to live again, in the power of Christ. SO good.

  29. Wonderful idea, Darrell. Here are a few things that I would recommend (I’m sure some if not all have already been mentioned).

    Puritans, Church Fathers, Reformers, Jonathan Edwards, C. H. Spurgeon, John Piper (DesiringGod.org)

    Monergism.com (Classic Articles and Resources of the Historic Christian Faith)

  30. Jonathan Merritt’s book Green Like God: Unlocking the Divine Plan for Our Planet (ISBN 978-0446557252)

    This challenged my beliefs on the plant and our responsibility to it. It was an excellent read.

  31. For the Gothardized: A Matter of Principle by Don Veinot of Midwest Christian Outreach.

    “Twisted Scriptures–Breaking Free from Churches that Abuse” by Mary Alice Chrnalogar (Zondervan)

    Decision Making and the Will of God by Garry Friesen

    ReChurch by Stephen Mansfield

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