completely OT, I saw your tweet on the side that Pillsbury College is for sale. What happened?
I think the book “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” has provided much fodder for Fundyland. That book is pure trash from beginning to end.
I think sex Ed is necessary but should come from parents not a school
I think it would be best if it comes from parents. However, not all parents are going to be involved, informed, or inclined to talk about it.
I have wondered about the book, “I Kissed Dating Goodbye.” Of course, I have been too lazy to actually read the book myself. The sad fact is that I have been trying, without even a hint of success, to kiss dating hello.
I think there may be good money in setting up an ex-fundy dating service for those who didn’t find a spouse while at Fundy U and have since departed from fundyland.
This is pure gold, people. Someone needs to do this. 🙂
@escapee, lack of students, no money.
Even though my parents were strict IFB, they never had a problem talking to me about sex. And I have been grateful ever since.
@Darrell
You thinking what I’m thinking? eBitterness.com?
I don’t know if it’s like this everywhere, but when I was a teenager, lack of discussions about sex were most definitely not keeping people from doing it.
The emotional ascetism instilled from books like IKDG takes its toll on ex-fundies as they try to renew their minds with the truth of grace and freedom. It is extremely difficult to navigate through healthy relationships with the opposite sex when for years you’ve drunken the Kool-Aid of Fundyland.
Men and women both have sexual AND emotional needs. Let’s not make this “Men = sex” and “Women = feelings” here. It’s a disservice to both.
AMEN!
I hate, hate, HATE how fundamentalism treats sexuality. Men and women are complex, and each person – male or female – has emotional, intellectual, spiritual, AND sexual needs. If we really treated each other as brothers and sisters in Christ, really knowing and caring for each other, we would understand this.
I am a woman with many needs and also many gifts, and I need a man who can stimulate my mind, encourage my spiritual development, provide emotional support, and please me sexually – and I offer the same to him.
the best thing I’ve read in the comments to this post so far were written by @Pita
“The god they’ve been taught loves conditionally, so how can they as humans do any better?”
That is powerful stuff there…so much truth. And so many doomed marriages.
we care Darrell – or we wouldn’t be reading!
Wow, so many things I wanna say. So many subtopics in this one topic. Oh well. First, Elizabeth with a baby sis named Susie, I think I know who you are. And if ya’ll are related to Darrell, then I know who he is as well. I’ve had my suspicions for a while:) But I could be wrong.
Second, it’s not just fundies who preach the whole “girls=emotions, boys=sex”. I grew up Southern Baptist and other than salvation messages the only thing they preached on was sexual purity. I didn’t realize I had other things to work on spiritually until after I was married (and stopped struggling with my thought life.) No doctrine whatsoever. I think most of the kids I went to church with didn’t even know what doctrine was, much less what they believed. No teaching on the Trinity, that baptism was seperate from salvation, etc. Sorry, rabbit trail=D
Also, I grew up thinking there was something wrong with me cuz after puberty all I could think about was sex. It drove me nuts. And the sermons I heard only talked about boys’ thought lives, like normal, good, Christian girls didn’t have that problem. Oh, my poor conscience. When I confessed to my now-husband about my “problem” afraid he wouldn’t want to marry me (cuz he wanted to marry a good, Christian girl) he was relieved. He’d grown up hearing the same sermons and just assumed a good Christian girl wasn’t that interested in sex. So he thought in order to have the kind of wife and mother he wanted he’d have to be stuck with a cold fish. It’s been 3 yrs. now and we’re both ecstatically happy we’ve found another instance in which the Baptists were wrong lol.
Wow I remember my dad reading i kissed dating goodbye to all us kids when we were growing up. Never looked at the book since. I don’t even remember what it said I was like 10 when he read it to us lol
@Pita: “The god they’ve been taught loves conditionally, so how can they as humans do any better?”
My mother realized this just before she was killed on the mission field. She essentially ordered me out of Fundyland.
@ Nicole: So true.
@Jonsgrl,
Yep – this is me and Darrell is Darrell. Good to see you!!
@Christopher:
My mother realized this just before she was killed on the mission field. She essentially ordered me out of Fundyland.
Wow. I don’t even know what to say. This made me cry.
Anyone else get their sex-ed from the older boys/girls in the back of the school bus? (I don’t mean that you did it in the bus, but rather that they told you about it there…)
I have a married friend who twice now has had to give “the talk” to guys whose wedding he was ushering. In one case I think he had to drag the groom-to-be kicking and screaming into the discussion. Definitely something very wrong with that picture. But I get the sense it’s par for the course. One Christian school I know of (and probably many many more) is worse than the area public schools in terms of how young the students become sexually active. The reason? The parents feel awkward talking to their kids, so they demand the school to do it for them. The school, perhaps rightly, is hands-off sex ed because they think it should be the parents’ responsibilities. So none of the “wise” authority figures are willing to teach it, and the students are too young or sheltered to go for independent study. It’s a perfect storm that ends with 9th graders learning firsthand about sex from their classmates and making it all up as they go.
@ Jonsgrl
I was the same way! They were always talking about boys and sex, like girls had zero interest besides some sort of desire for emotional affection. But I confess I didn’t mind at the time because it meant I didn’t have to feel guilty when they were talking about burning w/ lust b/c that was only for the boys. Half the time the girls didn’t even have to listen, we got separated to listen to a talk about how to dress modest and “feminine” (while we were all wearing baggy guys’ shorts, lol).
Was anybody else ever deeply bothered by the oft-heard sermon illustration with the rose–the one where they passed it around and let everybody touch it, and then they were like “Do you want this rose now? It’s all nasty and dirty because everybody touched it!” And then they’d pull out a nice pristine rose and say “Wouldn’t you rather have this one?” Like the only worth a woman had was her virginity (or not even that–I believe the sermon was about being physically touched by a boy in any way, like kissing or such). Repentant individuals who had once made mistakes aside, how do you suppose that made victims of sexual abuse or rape feel???
@K: I’ve heard that type of illustration before(at a youth ralley) except it was with chocolate and related to both boys and girls. Some were half eaten or bitten. Do you wnat a guy or a girls that’s been kissed on or more?
I always heard the one about the Oreo as an illustration of purity. Someone would lick the cream out of the middle and ask if anyone wanted to eat the cookie after that. The thing is, I actually prefer the cookie over the filling, so in my case the idea of the white filling being the best part didn’t fly with me.
In my senior Bible class at my fundy Christian school, all of the girls were told that sex often was their duty because it was necessary for our future husband’s ego. One of many awkward classes that year :/
Wow, I only got the modesty discussion (which included jumpers as the queen of all modest garments). I feel so sorry for y’all. The rose thing? Yeesh!
@Amanda: I think i had heard the Oreo one before too.
The Oreo cookie illustration is just plain wrong on so many levels. And I wonder how many times that pure rose and been touche(fondled) on its way to market?
Another danger of not teaching kids (even young children) about sex is that they don’t know what to do when they are touched or raped, and that it’s not their fault. . . .
@mbi2000 – ditto. Anyone with less than 100% innocence should cringe at that illustration. And yup, I just cringed again. Twice in one minute. Imma go find me some bleach, wash that puppy right out of there. IMO every pastor should have someone with a few scars read through their sermons before they preach them. Stuff like this hopefully wouldn’t make it through then.
Instead of teaching them about safe sex, they should be to taught to abstain from fornication, to flee youthful lusts, that fornicators shall not inherit the kingdom of God, etc.
@Amanda… just now catching up with this string
So we sprinklers and pourers really do have it right, then
At least so far as to avoiding paternity suits related to waterborne pregnancies 🙂
“as to” ??? Aztu??? dang, now I’ve started typing in tounges…
Yes, Sean, they do need to be taught not to have sex before they are married, BUT they also need to know what sex is! The big problem is, parents in the IFB world are afraid to talk to their kids about the subject AT ALL.
I completely believe in saving sex for marriage, but I wish we had a better approach to preparing young people for marriage. I was brought up pretty much not ever saying or hearing the word “sex” because it was “dirty”. How does that kind of approach help a sincere Christian young person be prepared to follow God’s Word: “May you rejoice in the wife of your youth. A loving doe, a graceful deer— may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love.” At age 16, I was angry that the Song of Solomon was even in the Bible. I thought it was so wrong that I wondered why God would ever allow such stuff to be written in the Scriptures! Somehow I want my children to be pure yet to realize that God’s plan for marriage is beautiful and holy and good.
Awesome, Sean is here.
Kat, not sure if you know who Sean is. He is a big fan of Lyman. Models his own street preaching after him too.
And Sean has demonstrated the entire mindset of the Fundies – Do in order to Be (or receive).
ie – Flee from fornication in order to inherit the Kingdom of God
Instead, it is flee to Jesus, he will cleanse you, if you are a fornicator, you are not one in Jesus Christ!
(triple post) – Yes, I am well aware that the Bible says “flee from fornication”. But it is also said to saved people who were committing that sin, or tempted to, and they were to run into Jesus arms, not flee from it so they could go to heaven.
escapee: completely OT, I saw your tweet on the side that Pillsbury College is for sale. What happened?
Pillsbury closed due to a lack of finances. The Owatonna School District is now considering buying the property. I met my wife while attending there.
@exIFB, I do know of Sean, and I know he is a Lyman follower. He’s one of those wacko super-patriarchal types. I feel sorry for his wife (if he still has one).
He might like to comment on that. I won’t.
Ok. 🙂
I just remember him from Online Baptist, and I’ve read his Facebook page for entertainment sometimes (like I do with Lyman’s page).
His facebook page is rather sad.
Almost every post was a link to a clip of Paul Washer or Paris Reidhead screaming about them being unsaved because of their works. Every other post was a video of him getting arrested or screaming at a gay crowd. It’s pretty much the same as his current website.
Hi Sean, I know you are reading this. I still pray for you mate.
He does teach a lot of works… more than most IFBs.
I’m so glad that my boyfriend knew about safe sex when we started dating, my parents never told me anything other than “dont do it”. Me and my boyfriend didnt wait until marriage but we are engaged now and i have never been with anyone else like that., so I think thats the same thing. When we get married i can say i have only ever had sex with y husband. Even though we are sexualy active we are smart about it, never gotten pregnant, and never gotten an STD. Hes the one who taught me about control and respect when it comes to sex, not my folks.
Nice straw men exIFB. All I did was make references to what the Bible says about fornication.
Actually I base my preaching on the Scriptures, not on a man. I appreaciate your spreading of false information though, as you haven’t just done it here but on other websites as well.
The magical straw man accusation. I don’t recall setting one up. Or even making an arguement.
Anyway, not sure what other sites you are talking about. I don’t have any? What false information Sean?
Comments are closed.
A silly blog dedicated to Independent Fundamental Baptists, their standards, their beliefs, and their craziness.
So is sex, Jason.
completely OT, I saw your tweet on the side that Pillsbury College is for sale. What happened?
I think the book “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” has provided much fodder for Fundyland. That book is pure trash from beginning to end.
I think sex Ed is necessary but should come from parents not a school
I think it would be best if it comes from parents. However, not all parents are going to be involved, informed, or inclined to talk about it.
I have wondered about the book, “I Kissed Dating Goodbye.” Of course, I have been too lazy to actually read the book myself. The sad fact is that I have been trying, without even a hint of success, to kiss dating hello.
I think there may be good money in setting up an ex-fundy dating service for those who didn’t find a spouse while at Fundy U and have since departed from fundyland.
This is pure gold, people. Someone needs to do this. 🙂
@escapee, lack of students, no money.
Even though my parents were strict IFB, they never had a problem talking to me about sex. And I have been grateful ever since.
@Darrell
You thinking what I’m thinking? eBitterness.com?
I don’t know if it’s like this everywhere, but when I was a teenager, lack of discussions about sex were most definitely not keeping people from doing it.
The emotional ascetism instilled from books like IKDG takes its toll on ex-fundies as they try to renew their minds with the truth of grace and freedom. It is extremely difficult to navigate through healthy relationships with the opposite sex when for years you’ve drunken the Kool-Aid of Fundyland.
Men and women both have sexual AND emotional needs. Let’s not make this “Men = sex” and “Women = feelings” here. It’s a disservice to both.
AMEN!
I hate, hate, HATE how fundamentalism treats sexuality. Men and women are complex, and each person – male or female – has emotional, intellectual, spiritual, AND sexual needs. If we really treated each other as brothers and sisters in Christ, really knowing and caring for each other, we would understand this.
I am a woman with many needs and also many gifts, and I need a man who can stimulate my mind, encourage my spiritual development, provide emotional support, and please me sexually – and I offer the same to him.
I did write a little on the courtship vs. dating thing back here: http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2009/02/courtship/ (in case anybody cares)
the best thing I’ve read in the comments to this post so far were written by @Pita
“The god they’ve been taught loves conditionally, so how can they as humans do any better?”
That is powerful stuff there…so much truth. And so many doomed marriages.
we care Darrell – or we wouldn’t be reading!
Wow, so many things I wanna say. So many subtopics in this one topic. Oh well. First, Elizabeth with a baby sis named Susie, I think I know who you are. And if ya’ll are related to Darrell, then I know who he is as well. I’ve had my suspicions for a while:) But I could be wrong.
Second, it’s not just fundies who preach the whole “girls=emotions, boys=sex”. I grew up Southern Baptist and other than salvation messages the only thing they preached on was sexual purity. I didn’t realize I had other things to work on spiritually until after I was married (and stopped struggling with my thought life.) No doctrine whatsoever. I think most of the kids I went to church with didn’t even know what doctrine was, much less what they believed. No teaching on the Trinity, that baptism was seperate from salvation, etc. Sorry, rabbit trail=D
Also, I grew up thinking there was something wrong with me cuz after puberty all I could think about was sex. It drove me nuts. And the sermons I heard only talked about boys’ thought lives, like normal, good, Christian girls didn’t have that problem. Oh, my poor conscience. When I confessed to my now-husband about my “problem” afraid he wouldn’t want to marry me (cuz he wanted to marry a good, Christian girl) he was relieved. He’d grown up hearing the same sermons and just assumed a good Christian girl wasn’t that interested in sex. So he thought in order to have the kind of wife and mother he wanted he’d have to be stuck with a cold fish. It’s been 3 yrs. now and we’re both ecstatically happy we’ve found another instance in which the Baptists were wrong lol.
Wow I remember my dad reading i kissed dating goodbye to all us kids when we were growing up. Never looked at the book since. I don’t even remember what it said I was like 10 when he read it to us lol
@Pita: “The god they’ve been taught loves conditionally, so how can they as humans do any better?”
My mother realized this just before she was killed on the mission field. She essentially ordered me out of Fundyland.
@ Nicole: So true.
@Jonsgrl,
Yep – this is me and Darrell is Darrell. Good to see you!!
@Christopher:
Wow. I don’t even know what to say. This made me cry.
Anyone else get their sex-ed from the older boys/girls in the back of the school bus? (I don’t mean that you did it in the bus, but rather that they told you about it there…)
I have a married friend who twice now has had to give “the talk” to guys whose wedding he was ushering. In one case I think he had to drag the groom-to-be kicking and screaming into the discussion. Definitely something very wrong with that picture. But I get the sense it’s par for the course. One Christian school I know of (and probably many many more) is worse than the area public schools in terms of how young the students become sexually active. The reason? The parents feel awkward talking to their kids, so they demand the school to do it for them. The school, perhaps rightly, is hands-off sex ed because they think it should be the parents’ responsibilities. So none of the “wise” authority figures are willing to teach it, and the students are too young or sheltered to go for independent study. It’s a perfect storm that ends with 9th graders learning firsthand about sex from their classmates and making it all up as they go.
@ Jonsgrl
I was the same way! They were always talking about boys and sex, like girls had zero interest besides some sort of desire for emotional affection. But I confess I didn’t mind at the time because it meant I didn’t have to feel guilty when they were talking about burning w/ lust b/c that was only for the boys. Half the time the girls didn’t even have to listen, we got separated to listen to a talk about how to dress modest and “feminine” (while we were all wearing baggy guys’ shorts, lol).
Was anybody else ever deeply bothered by the oft-heard sermon illustration with the rose–the one where they passed it around and let everybody touch it, and then they were like “Do you want this rose now? It’s all nasty and dirty because everybody touched it!” And then they’d pull out a nice pristine rose and say “Wouldn’t you rather have this one?” Like the only worth a woman had was her virginity (or not even that–I believe the sermon was about being physically touched by a boy in any way, like kissing or such). Repentant individuals who had once made mistakes aside, how do you suppose that made victims of sexual abuse or rape feel???
@K: I’ve heard that type of illustration before(at a youth ralley) except it was with chocolate and related to both boys and girls. Some were half eaten or bitten. Do you wnat a guy or a girls that’s been kissed on or more?
I always heard the one about the Oreo as an illustration of purity. Someone would lick the cream out of the middle and ask if anyone wanted to eat the cookie after that. The thing is, I actually prefer the cookie over the filling, so in my case the idea of the white filling being the best part didn’t fly with me.
In my senior Bible class at my fundy Christian school, all of the girls were told that sex often was their duty because it was necessary for our future husband’s ego. One of many awkward classes that year :/
Wow, I only got the modesty discussion (which included jumpers as the queen of all modest garments). I feel so sorry for y’all. The rose thing? Yeesh!
@Amanda: I think i had heard the Oreo one before too.
The Oreo cookie illustration is just plain wrong on so many levels. And I wonder how many times that pure rose and been touche(fondled) on its way to market?
Another danger of not teaching kids (even young children) about sex is that they don’t know what to do when they are touched or raped, and that it’s not their fault. . . .
@mbi2000 – ditto. Anyone with less than 100% innocence should cringe at that illustration. And yup, I just cringed again. Twice in one minute. Imma go find me some bleach, wash that puppy right out of there. IMO every pastor should have someone with a few scars read through their sermons before they preach them. Stuff like this hopefully wouldn’t make it through then.
Instead of teaching them about safe sex, they should be to taught to abstain from fornication, to flee youthful lusts, that fornicators shall not inherit the kingdom of God, etc.
@Amanda… just now catching up with this string
At least so far as to avoiding paternity suits related to waterborne pregnancies 🙂
“as to” ??? Aztu??? dang, now I’ve started typing in tounges…
Yes, Sean, they do need to be taught not to have sex before they are married, BUT they also need to know what sex is! The big problem is, parents in the IFB world are afraid to talk to their kids about the subject AT ALL.
I completely believe in saving sex for marriage, but I wish we had a better approach to preparing young people for marriage. I was brought up pretty much not ever saying or hearing the word “sex” because it was “dirty”. How does that kind of approach help a sincere Christian young person be prepared to follow God’s Word: “May you rejoice in the wife of your youth. A loving doe, a graceful deer— may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love.” At age 16, I was angry that the Song of Solomon was even in the Bible. I thought it was so wrong that I wondered why God would ever allow such stuff to be written in the Scriptures! Somehow I want my children to be pure yet to realize that God’s plan for marriage is beautiful and holy and good.
Awesome, Sean is here.
Kat, not sure if you know who Sean is. He is a big fan of Lyman. Models his own street preaching after him too.
And Sean has demonstrated the entire mindset of the Fundies – Do in order to Be (or receive).
ie – Flee from fornication in order to inherit the Kingdom of God
Instead, it is flee to Jesus, he will cleanse you, if you are a fornicator, you are not one in Jesus Christ!
(triple post) – Yes, I am well aware that the Bible says “flee from fornication”. But it is also said to saved people who were committing that sin, or tempted to, and they were to run into Jesus arms, not flee from it so they could go to heaven.
escapee: completely OT, I saw your tweet on the side that Pillsbury College is for sale. What happened?
Pillsbury closed due to a lack of finances. The Owatonna School District is now considering buying the property. I met my wife while attending there.
@exIFB, I do know of Sean, and I know he is a Lyman follower. He’s one of those wacko super-patriarchal types. I feel sorry for his wife (if he still has one).
He might like to comment on that. I won’t.
Ok. 🙂
I just remember him from Online Baptist, and I’ve read his Facebook page for entertainment sometimes (like I do with Lyman’s page).
His facebook page is rather sad.
Almost every post was a link to a clip of Paul Washer or Paris Reidhead screaming about them being unsaved because of their works. Every other post was a video of him getting arrested or screaming at a gay crowd. It’s pretty much the same as his current website.
Hi Sean, I know you are reading this. I still pray for you mate.
He does teach a lot of works… more than most IFBs.
I’m so glad that my boyfriend knew about safe sex when we started dating, my parents never told me anything other than “dont do it”. Me and my boyfriend didnt wait until marriage but we are engaged now and i have never been with anyone else like that., so I think thats the same thing. When we get married i can say i have only ever had sex with y husband. Even though we are sexualy active we are smart about it, never gotten pregnant, and never gotten an STD. Hes the one who taught me about control and respect when it comes to sex, not my folks.
Nice straw men exIFB. All I did was make references to what the Bible says about fornication.
Actually I base my preaching on the Scriptures, not on a man. I appreaciate your spreading of false information though, as you haven’t just done it here but on other websites as well.
The magical straw man accusation. I don’t recall setting one up. Or even making an arguement.
Anyway, not sure what other sites you are talking about. I don’t have any? What false information Sean?