Although Lester Roloff is perhaps best known for his homes for troubled youth, he was also very active in fundamentalist circles with everything from radio broadcasts to revival services. His sermons against television, alcohol, tobacco, pork, psychology, and Communism are largely regarded as classics by many fundamentalists.
After the State of Texas passed laws in 1975 that required licensing his youth homes, Roloff was arrested twice for refusing to comply. In 1982 Roloff’s plane crashed during a storm killing himself and three women on board. Incidentally, the crash occured on the same day that Governor Mark White — who had promised to shut down the Roloff homes — was elected. The wreckage of the crashed airplane in which he died is the centerpiece of Roloff Park at Hyles-Anderson College.
Presented here for your listening pleasure is one of his more famous “sermons” entitled “And the Mule Walked On” in which are addressed the topics of: long hair on men, short hair on women, makeup on women, hippies, buying gas on Sunday, too many people going swimming on Sunday, too many women cooking on Sunday, reading the newspaper on Sunday, newspaper delivery boys who go to the devil for delivering on Sunday, “homosectals”, professional football and baseball, people on dope from their family doctors, public schools, sex ed. and many, many others.
(Note: the audio quality is poor for the first few seconds of intro. It clears up once the actual message begins)
Many thanks to James for his help in summarizing this amazing collection of topics
Wow, that’s a pretty impressive list for one sermon! And thanks for (once again) making me grateful for leaving fundyism for a church that *gasp* preaches from the Bible!
That is the bible. Fundies are following it to the letter. Even Paul said gays were going to hell, women should cover their heads, and women should keep their mouths shut.
And yet you yours is wide open here….
Fundies are like little Johnny Cochrans, they love the word plays…LR @ about 16 minutes in says we have turned weekends into the wicked end.
The Roloff Memorial at HAC:
That Roloff Memorial is just sick! Yuck yuck yuck. I did not grow up in a fundy home but many extended family members did. I’m so thankful for my Lutheran/later non-denom background.
Thank you God , for a man who stood in the Gap !!!!
I think “Dr. Law and Dr. Grace” may be a little more famous than “And the Mule Walked On.”
“the colored man gave me this verse”. . .
Hippies. Hippies?! How old is this?
“Thank you God , for a man who stood in the Gap !!!!” ??????????
What does that mean?
What Gap did he stand in? (the gap in the truth?)
Where is that gap? (Texas?)
What did he acomplish?
(Olen King and Mack Ford are former employees and passionate followers of Lester Roloff. The New Bethany Home for Boys and Girls was a product of the Roloff legacy and it has a long history of abuse and run-ins with state and local officials. There are scores of reports of torture and abuse coming out of New Bethany, which is now officially closed. Olen King and Mack Ford were the Director and founder of New Bethany School, respectfully)
How many lives were ruined in thoses so called homes?
(Eventually, 16 girls would come forward and tell of whippings, imprisonment, and being handcuffed to drainpipes at the hands of Rebekah Home staff. Lester Roloff defended these methods as solidly rooted in scripture. Of the charges pending against his abusive methods, Roloff said, “Better a pink bottom than a black soul.” Attorney General Hill said it wasn’t pink bottoms he objected to but ones that were black, blue and bloody. (Texas Monthly))
Beyond the Hype, Behind the mask: A look at the real Lester Roloff
http://www.nospank.net/colloff.htm
and
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/31378
There’s his legacy… put that in the gap!
ok- i’m starting to think that the “random post”s at the top are reading my mind…
i will say one positive thing about the roloff homes: it was the bible reading i did while at the roloff homes, as well as seeing baptist lifestyle being lived in its fullness, that helped convince me that the whole baptist scene: theology, history, lifestyle, et al, was a complete sham. thank you, Lord, for delivering me from those who think themselves Thy servants 😀
@Don: thanks for those links! i had seen the first one before, but i hadn’t seen the 2nd one. looking forward to my lunch break to give it a good read!
doing some searching online, and it turns out that the guy in charge when i was there went ahead and died of injuries from an explosion. so there’s that.
@Don I remember at my church, a local one you are familiar with, when I was a kid there were abuse allegations brought against one of the men you mentioned in your post who started a local boys’ home, and we all wrote letters defending him, stating that there couldn’t be any truth to those allegations. Even though I was a kid, I wrote one too and the thought now makes me sick because I had nothing but our pastor’s word, there was no way we could’ve actually known that nothing happened.
I should say former church…
@Alm517
That is a perfect example of the cultic qualities of the IFB. The One man rule, and he can get “his” people to whatever he wants all he has to do I stand up there behind the “sacred desk” and say what he wants done. The modern church template gives too much extra biblical authority to the professional hired gun, aka. self-apointed Man o Gawd. The caste system that is the Clergy/Laity system, sets the “common” saint up as the one who has to be lead and is somehow lesser than Gawd’s anointed super saint.
Hey don’t feel bad, I staked my reputation on, and gave my friendship and fidelity to, one of these phoney-baloney con artists who turned out to be a felon. He fooled the entire local cadre of IFB Ãœbermensch Under-shepherds and fooled his flock into thinking “he” was being persecuted by a Secret Society of Homosexuals which had infiltrated the entire justice system, the local police, The DA’s office… oh they were everywhere. And their network was so good they only attacked him when he was by himself.
H-E-L-L-O???? McFly!?? Yeah, now I look back and go…DUH! But at the time, I was a grown man drunk on the IFB’s, “honor the man-o-gawd-no-matter-what,” kool-aid and a bit psychotic from breathing the “we-are-the-only-ones-who-have-the-truth” poisoned air, trapped in the IFB Bunker’s airlock. You want to know a good description of the particular brand of Fundy crap we went through?
Yep, that about sums up the IFB cult as I know it. Three of the Six pastors I have sat under in my 47 years were IFB dictators, why didn’t I learn sooner? It is the herd mentality, and the need to be accepted and be a part of something you perceive is greater than yourself… and the con-artists running the IFB are masters at providing the setting for you and once you are hooked they play you for all they can, until you either submit and kowtow to them, you leave turn your back on God and blame Him for all the crap, or you get fed up and get out. I’m out and I can’t go back to it.
Oy Vey! Did I write so much? I apologize for the novel.
Well, I’m new to this site and I’m just now reading this post. After listening to the sermon (I only got through about 10 min of it), I realized that I’ve heard it before…because my parents had a recording of it…that they received while working in the Roloff Ministries…where I was born. Yes friends, where I was born. It’s been a long time since we were there but re-listening to this sermon really helps me understand my parents and why they are the way they are. Wow. Why it was such a big issue the first time a ‘bobbed’ my hair. Why it was such a big issue when they realized that at the age of 22, I decided to buy a pair of pants (they were in tears). Why there was never a speck of makeup in the house and my Mom still complains on the few occasions I wear it. Why at almost 30 yrs old they still feel the need to help me pick out a ‘good’ church…even though I’m married. Why their lives are centered around judgement of all those who don’t believe the true gospel as recounted in the KJV. It’s all so clear. I just wonder why they think it’s ok to eat pork and drink coffee now? 😉 Gotta love ’em.
@Mo…Hey, you might have been there when I was! and it’s one whacked out place, huh?
While I can’t comment on things that took place in the past, I can comment on what takes place now in this ministry. Men and women who have totally spent themselves and, for the most part, get real help. It is sad to read your pathetic posts mocking real men of God (Gawd, one of you decided to mock God Himself). Thousands of folks have come through these Homes and had their lives transformed. The horrible abuse that took place in minute numbers are sick and the folks that did them need to be in prison. The remainder of the real men of God and staff members of PBC and Roloff Ministries deserve better than you are dishing out. Mocking your parents standards or mocking folks that have given up everything in order to help others is sick as well. How many folks will end up on a cold slab or put someone else there because of your one-sided, anti-christian beliefs. Shame on you. Pastor Camaron was not perfect, but he was one of the most influential men during the Roloff era. Applauding his death makes no sense and is a hurt to all that knew, loved him, and had their lives changed forever more. Whether you are apostate, backslidden, or just achild of God, you need to repent. I don’t anticipate good comments to come out of my post, I just wanted a balanced viewpoint. My email has been submitted, contact me if you wish. Ignore me if you like. It makes no matter to me, but please grow-up.
(sigh)
Over a year later and I’ll sigh along with John…
While i respect your views on Bro. Cameron, i can’t keep quiet about the pain and anguish i endured while in Rebekah Home For Girls in Corpus Christi in 1984. Clearly you were not a victim of the sick mental games of the “Brother” Roloff Ministries. i am still haunted by the torture and loss of freedom. i have been searching for some type of closure in order to move forward in a healthy manor raising my family and maintaining relationships without the scars resurfacing.
I am so thankful for the internet as i have discovered i am not alone! Knowing that has helped me a tremendous amount and have since decided to search for producers to make a documentary to share with the world in a desperate commitment to make the world WAKE UP to this abuse in the ‘name of God’. For years, the “God” i was exposed to was not a ‘God’ i wanted to be a part of or live by. I knew then and i know better now, that the REAL God would NEVER inflict harm to anyone… not even The Cameron’s or Lester Roloff whose legacy still to this day is haunting the hallways of Girls and Boys ‘Christian Homes” in many many cities and states we live in today.
Thats all. i felt inspired to share my story as i will mention again, i am COMMITTED to waking people up and hope to eventually have every ‘Christian Home’ closed forever that have been accused of abuse. There is not a ‘need’ to create a cult by inflicting torture to change the lives of ‘troubled teens’. The ONLY way to successfully change a ‘troubled child’ is through LOVE… NOT PAIN!!!!!!! Shame on those of you who think pain is the answer. You are a fool and i can’t help but wonder what pain you too endured when you were a child for you to blindly turn your cheek to such sick behavior?? Were the adults who influenced your life brainwashed also in their youth??
WAKE UP and help BREAK THE CHAIN !!!
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/brainwashed?s=t
brainwashed-
adjective
subjected to intensive forced indoctrination resulting in the rejection of old beliefs and acceptance of new ones; “brainwashed prisoners of war”;
Good came out of the home, so that makes it ok? Absolute passionate wholehearted sacrifice and belief in something, makes it right? The Pharasees were passionate. The Hollocast made it possible for Isreal to be a nation again. Does that passion, or minute ( when taking the number of abused vs the world population) number of abused less wrong or evil? Ok something good came after the bad, does it make it less horrid? Christ gave a parrable of leaving the 99 sheep to find the 1 lost lamb. That is how important 1 individual is to God. There is no minute number of abused people that God tollerates or sanctifies. And the person that wrote “Gawd” was not moking God but was mimiking speach pattern. Legalism is NOT grace driven, Christ honoring, or Biblical and the IFB is all about legalistc living. King David killed a man to get his wife, yet he repented and God forgave and called him beloved. Abraham gave his wife away to the king saying she was his sister because he was afraid. But he repented and God honored his faith and made him the first of His chosen people. Paul was passionately killing Christians until he saw the errors of his ways and stopped his legalistic misguided blind following of the Pharrisee leaders. James realized that his brother Jesus was the Christ only AFTER his resurrection. IFB loves to gloss over the grace and say things like “if you do (?) you are going to hell”. Fact is we all sin, but God is in the forgiveness business. We dont need to be tethered to a person, or legalism, or our past… Only to understanding that Christ rose again to pay our way out hell. IFB forgets its roots, grace. IFB seeks to enslave, through guilt and a false belief that we can “do” anything that would seperate us from that grace. IFB promotes BLIND faith in people over God. IFB’s are the Pharasees of today. They memorize and quote the letter of the law but miss its spirit. They will stand there and pompously declare there certitude in their rightness, but forget that Christ came to free men from the law. To offer us our only chance through redemption and grace, not through a check list of “can’t do’s”.
@Ken, abuse and love cannot coexist.
I’ll stand behind every word I’ve posted Ken.
I also have no problem mocking the “god” Roloff presented.
btw define “real men of God” for me if you will… just who IS a “real” man of God?
@Ken Gregory – Sir, I meant no disrespect to my parents. I love them I have wanted to please them all my life and longed so badly for their approval. Even after being married for several years it is still hard for me to let go of those feelings and focus on what my husband and I decide together is how we will live. What they think matters a lot to me. I respect them for what they did and the fact that they gave years of their lives to helping seriously troubled people. I was merely pointing out that pulling this message back into my memory is clearing up a lot of things for me now. I don’t agree with their standards as I dont see how many of them are biblically based but that doesn’t mean that I don’t respect them.
Also, being critical of a ministry doesn’t mean that I believe that nothing good ever came of it. God works in spite of our human blundering. But even my parents can tell you, it wasn’t the rosey place that most Fundys liked to think. Roloff was a very quarky man. They eventually left because they felt like it was not a good place to raise a family.
Welcome to Fun Center Community Church!
Oh your a homosexual who wants to work with kids, sure we have a volunteer position for you!
Your a raging alcoholic who wants to help with the bus ministry, sure do you have your cdl?
You have been living with your girlfriend for 8 years, and you teach sunday school. Thats great, you will not have to worry about hearing a sermon where we call sin by name hear.
Lets put out flyers of people smoking pot, and gay men lying on a couch together and the heading can say “Church for the Rest of Us” (I actually saw this).
You are a mom/dad who does not really want a relationship with God, you just want to get your finances right, and get your kids to obey you, and you heard that we had some programs. Well you came to the right place.
To learn more about the laodecian church you can visit this blog:
http://www.seekersensitivechurch.blogspot.com
To learn more about there Bible go here:
http://www.themessagebibleexposed.blogspot.com
Oh by the way, if Jesus, John the Baptist, or any of Jesus’ disciples were to come back today, they would be labeled fundamentalist. They may also be labeled a fanatic like Lester Roloff.
If you have never been labeled a fanatic, then you are not right with God.
to hear more great sermons go here:
http://fundamentalbaptistsermons.com/sermonsRoloff1.htm
Probably unnecessary, but I feel obliged to point out that heterosexuals molest children too. It’s not a gay thing, sadly it’s a human thing. Gay men don’t rape little girls (or little boys). It’s pedophiles who do that, and pedophiles come in all orientations.
Tell that to the thousands of little boys that are currently being molested by homosexual predator priests and the thousands of men who were molested by homosexual predator priests in the past. (never heard of any girls being molested by heterosexual priests, only the vile homosexual priests molesting boys) But facts don’t matter much to made-up minds.
Obviously facts don’t matter to made up minds. 🙄
Please read what I wrote, don’t assume I’m excusing pedophile priests. 👿
Gay does not equal pedophile, pedophile does not equal gay. Why is that hard to understand?
What don’t you understand about pedophiles? It’s not the sexual orientation, it’s the attraction to little kids, regardless of orientation.
But you keep thinking all homosexuals are attracted to little boys if that makes you feel better about yourself.
Scorpio – Homosexual, male, predator priests raped, molested, terrorized and are terrorizing little boys (not girls)
These homosexual predators priests are (not) attracted to little girls.
This is all I am saying, I am not commenting about pedophiles in general.
I just don’t see this type of questioning for others that comment here. My original comment was very clear.
Your original comment (as well as Wild Man’s) implies that it’s unsafe to allow homosexuals to work with children. That is simply untrue and I will not let it stand.
In retrospect, it probably was necessary. Who’da thunk it? 🙁
I can assure you that the abuse that took place was very real and very widespread. It was not in “minute” numbers. Roloff and the people who worked for him were sadists and I wouldn’t call the places homes, I would call them torture chambers.
It’s interesting that while professing to get us closer to god, for me at least, they beat him out of me. It’s decades later and I still can’t have a relationship with god because of these people.
@ wild man: “Lets put out flyers of people smoking pot, and gay men lying on a couch together and the heading can say “Church for the Rest of Us†(I actually saw this).” That’s pretty extreme!
You’ve set up a logical fallacy as if there are only two choices: the gay-druggie church or a LesterRoloff supporting church(the seeker-sensitive, “anything goes” church or a traditional IFB church). The Bible does say the path is narrow, but there are still many Godly, Bible-believing churches that hold to fundamental doctrines such as justification by faith, Christ’s virgin birth and substitutionary death on the cross for our sin, His physical resurrection, the inspiration of the Bible, and the reality of miracles (among others) but do not look like an IFB-style church.
I’d rather go the the gay druggie church than @wild man’s.
😯
That’s telling
data point
It’s really a treasure trove!
RobM – I wonder if anyone else is in on this or just us? I almost can’t keep up. I am having a blast with this 😆
I think it’s just us so far, but I’m hoping @Don catches on soon.
I just now saw this… bwahahahah 😉
Ok I went there and all I saw were Roloff’s diatribes and legalisms. All the crap he built his empire on. Where were the great sermons?
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:
“If Roloff, Hyles, Jones, Sunday or any other fundy M-O-G hero is in heaven it won’t be for the empires they built, the sermons they preached or anything they did. If they are there, it will be inspite of all the empire building and it will only be by the Grace of God… just like it will be for you, me or anyone else.”
I’m so thankful for His grace! I’m so glad I won’t be standing before God’s presence dressed in the rags of my self-righteousness; instead I am covered with His robe of righteousness!
Ken Gregory,
You are right that the Camerons were influntial. Wiley Cameron, having his private “bible studies” with his favorite girls in their closet at night. Faye, demanding a backrup after a beating. Yeah, it was all very influntial.
@wildman
“Oh your a homosexual who wants to work with kids, sure we have a volunteer position for you!
Your a raging alcoholic who wants to help with the bus ministry, sure do you have your cdl?
You have been living with your girlfriend for 8 years, and you teach sunday school. Thats great, you will not have to worry about hearing a sermon where we call sin by name hear.
Lets put out flyers of people smoking pot, and gay men lying on a couch together and the heading can say “Church for the Rest of Us†(I actually saw this).
You are a mom/dad who does not really want a relationship with God, you just want to get your finances right, and get your kids to obey you, and you heard that we had some programs. Well you came to the right place.”
Were you advertising for a fundy church? Sure sounded like it.
@pastor’s wife Now that gets an a-men outta me. “A-Men!” Grace is so amazing. I did not deserve it yet He extened it to me… to me. And when i stand before Him it will not be of my own accord, or my works or my anything… it will be in the Son’s robes, in Jesus’ righteousness alone. I still have enough fundy in me to shout for that! A-men!
That’s a sincere a-men, not a facetious one.
@wildman
If you have never been labeled a fanatic, then you are not right with God.
Phew, I am safe. But I am not a fanatic anymore. So what now?
Dr Law and Dr Grace is actually a pretty decent sermon though 🙂
“Oh by the way, if Jesus, John the Baptist, or any of Jesus’ disciples were to come back today, they would be labeled fundamentalist. ”
Psht, if Jesus was to come back today, the Fundamentalists would scream in his face for being a dirty long-haired hippie who drank and hung out with prostitutes.
Not only would he NOT be welcome in a Fundy church, the Fundies would revile him as much as the Pharisees did.
The Pharisees were the Fundamentalists of Jesus’ day. They were the ones who wanted him executed for having a less legalistic theology than they had.
@Not to mention they were all jewish, and that’s gonna of course be a prob in Fundyland.
So true Rob!
In my view, I think that Evangelist Lester Roloff could have been as influential on a lost world as Billy Graham. Unfortunately, it seems to me that he left the “first works” and started building “homes” (which does not require such an anointing as he had). We are cautioned to be sober, be viligant because the enemy wants to take us away from our main path. I’m offended by the wrecked airplane as a memorial to Roloff–but maybe it is symbolic in a sense of a wrecked potentially soul saving ministry which could have touched the world. Love you Pastor Roloff but sorry to know how it ended here on earth for you. I was converted in your ministry as a child.
So you’ve heard his “message” such as above and still believe he could have been used by
God? Really? Sigh…
“Lets put out flyers of people smoking pot, and gay men lying on a couch together and the heading can say “Church for the Rest of Us†(I actually saw this)”.
I don’t believe for a second you saw such a flier. If you did you would have saved it and it would be shown to the world. Quite frankly….I think you are lying!
We have a new John!!!
Just a quick note for all of you defending Roloff.
You were not there when the beatings took place.
But you will defend him to the bitter end.
The truth is so awful..you won’t look at it.
“Jack” administered more than one thrashing out on the Lighthouse.
How you people sleep at night is beyond me…
I did get something positive out of the whole ordeal…I will never…I mean NEVER… go into another Baptist Church EVER AGAIN!
Congradulations! You have managed to drive someone else away from the Church…including my own children.
I was always intrested in the fact that “If you’re not doing it a Roloff’s you’re goin to hell.”
I am greatful that I now live across the country from Corpus Cristi….Now at 53 years old if I were to see any of you “followers” on the street…hummm…a baseball bat would in your immediate future.
Turn-about is fair-play
For those who are interested, I found a fanpage for Lester Roloff on facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Lester-Roloff/167877875102
Reading the comments left by people is…enlightening (to put it kindly). Sad that people were deceived by him.
Some of the comments on that page show that people are still being deceived by that psycho and his followers, apparently. 😥
Sad but true. It’s like reading commenters of Charles Manson lovers. Not exactly, but not far from him. He didn’t kill anyone, but he certainly abused more.
So sad! I am proud to be an Independent Baptist with a capital FUNDAMENTAL! I loved Dr. Hyles and Dr. Roloff and thank God for their influence in my life. I’ve seen the results of the “seeker” friendly churches and I’ll keep the IFB results. Most of you losers that are complaining about Dr. Roloff ended up in his homes because you were a worthless rebel and somebody cared enough to try to help you. It it any wonder than even now you are ungrateful. Bunch of godless heathen!
You can say what you want, but seeing the way you act on here, I wouldn’t be surprised if you deserved all the punishment you received and MUCH MORE THAN THAT! The Bible – yes the KING JAMES BIBLE – teaches that rebellion is AS THE SIN OF WITCHCRAFT! That’s some pretty strong language regarding your rebellion.
Those of you who art “touting” your refusal to attend certain churches or to “serve” the God of certain men – go ahead and live in your pride and see if you don’t end up with the same result as Sodom – an eternity of flames. Remember, Sodom was destroyed because of their pride and I’d say pride is quite evident by you rebels.
Comment away on my post – I’ll probably never see it. I just happened to trip into this junk looking for the sermon by Dr. Roloff “God Killed A Hippie And The Mule Walked On”! Any of you hippie hearted rebels happy with the donkey your riding?
Amen! Now if that don’t make folks wanna get right, I don’t know what will.
Hippy hearted rebel riding on a donkey? Now that reminds me of someone… Or should it be Someone.
Something that’s missed on him.
B-I-N-G-O!!!
In Mike’s last sentence, the word “your” should be “you’re”.
Mike, I’m sorry, but I think the demon in you needs to be exercised.
“exorcised”, George, although he probably should be “exercised”, too.
Even demons need inordinate amounts of exercise after all that green bean caserole & angel’d eggs!
Did he actually call us “hippies?” Groovy! 😎
Brownies for everyone!
Duuuuuuuuuuude! Pot brownies!
I got re-saved three times just reading that! Thank you anonymous Mike!
First post I’ve seen from Mounty…but I think I like him/her…LOL
Don’t let the doorknob hit you where the dog should’ve bit you. 😉
There’s a greater chance Lester Roloff and Jack Hyles are in hell for the abominations they’ve created to destroy people and the church than there is the commenterfs who give barely a pittance back of the scorn those monsters deserve.
I know what your asking: is a commenterf like a commenter with nerf style padding? I’m not really sure, but why not?
I thought “commenterf” was a commenting smurf. I guess either works.
It’s the KJV 1611 spelling. Olde Englifh, you know. 😆
Ah, yef. You’re right. I fee that now.
Mike thank you. I mean it, thank you. You have, in one posting, been a shining example of why so many of us have left the cult of Fundamentalism. In one fell swoop you have shown the hateful, jusgemntal, pathetic god you claim to follow and the attitude of your heart. You serve as a beacon to the world that your brand of religion is the “only” brand that you or your god will accept.
Your arrogance is only exceeded by your blind allegiance to a cult that exhalts men who twist the gospel to suit their own desires, agendas and empire building designs.
You have no idea the vile, ungodly, hurt you have just spewed out with your, “Most of you losers that are complaining about Dr. Roloff ended up in his homes because you were a worthless rebel and somebody cared enough to try to help you. It it any wonder than even now you are ungrateful. Bunch of godless heathen!” BULL GIPP!
Yep, That is one powerful testimony for Fundamentalism there buddy. Now, I have some friends on here who are victims of those religious concentration camps and I for one do not appreciate your ignorant, hate-filled, hurtful ranting. You need to apologize and do a little homework about Roloff, Mack Ford, Olen King and the rest of the goons who ran those homes.
I stand before God with a clear conscience and I say the LORD rebuke you!
I think you deserve an “amen” for that!
HAAAAAAAAAYYYY-MEN!
thanks Don…I could’nt have said it any better.
John55, I can only imagine how painful thoughtless, hate-filled crap like that is for you to read. True Christians are not like that, and I’ll stand with you against such stupidity anytime, anywhere my friend.
Hay-men, Don!
Here, have one of my special sugar cubes!
Broaden your mind, have another beer, have two.
He’ll “probably never see it”. I was a fundy WAY too long to know that he’s just hitting refresh over and over and seeing how much attention he garnered.
Like an attention-loving child.
But, I don’t know, his post does make me want to find someone and smack them around.
Permission to slap an IFB “Pastor” granted! There is no expiration date!
Far Out man 😎
Typical Fundyland fashion – defend an adulterer (Hyles) and a child abuser (Roloff). These were mean, despicable people more interested in maintaining the fiefdom than the Gospel. 🙁
Wow, Mike. You’re sure a shining example of Christ’s love toward others. 🙄
“When Jesus said suffer the little children to come unto him, do you think he beat them when they got there? And just how do you reconcile the words of Christ, who was so gentle and compassionate to the helpless and downtrodden, with your Old Testament “spare not the rod†mentality? Is there some reason that you fundamentalist types spout the words of Christ until it is time to discipline and teach your children, at which point you revert to the brutality of the Old Testament.â€
“Your salvation comes through Christ, but your rules seem to come from Moses and Abraham. If your wife cheats on you, will you and the other men of your community stone her to death? Just how do you pick and choose? Did God tell you that you couldn’t kill your wife anymore, but it’s okay to beat your children for a few more decades?â€
nuff said.
Thought for the IFB’s today…..
I don’t mind forgive and forget….
I just don’t want them to forget I forgave.
Have a nice day “mike.”
Those of you who art “touting†your refusal to attend certain churches or to “serve†the God of certain men…………
What part of “A PERSONAL relationship with God” don’t you understand? The God that I worship and know is certainly not the Boogy man God that you worship. Hence, “A PERSONAL relationship” with God.
Mike, you just make me tired all over.
Mike, you worship an EVIL GOD, and those who worship evil gods (such as Moloch or Allah) are in serious danger of becoming just like the evil gods that they worshipped!
(BTW / ByTheWay, I KNOW this is a late post, but a thread as serious as this thread needs to be kept alive for posterity.)
Lester Roloff is dead because he drove a plane most recklessly. He and several young women are dead because of his (Roloff’s) reckless piloting. Lester Roloff’s recklessness seems to have in it (his recklessness) some very strong elements of both suicide and murder!
Roloff was very probably an absolute reprobate, and very probably went to Hell (probably the Eighth Circle of Hell at that – – or at least the Seventh Circle of Hell for his violent spirit).
Another Pharisaical fraudster, Bill Gothard, of Quiverfull infamy, is next to die as a reprobate and go to Hell.
(Speaking of Quiverfull, how are the Terpin brood of thirteen doing – – the Terpins of Perris, California and formerly of Texas?)
Mike, you need to take extra care not to become a damnable reprobate like unto either Bill Gothard or Lester Roloff!
People like Mike are the perfect Fundy poster child. Much of what is wrong with Fundamentalism was illustrated in his ignorant and heartless post. Bet he thinks the perverted Bob Gray (from Trinity) was a good pastor too.
I found brother Roloff’s messages on the radio. I like them a lot, I study them a lot. I hate to read the stories of abuse, that makes me sad. Im not defending what happened in the homes. I just like what he had to say, hope im not brain washed.
Listen you guys…You are talking about an era of Fundamentalism that is not going on as much as it once was. You talking about an era where legalism was prevalent. And yes there are still some churches that have not figured out that all that has gone out with High button shoes!
Now…Is the demand for holiness still in the Word of God? Yes it is! God still requires us to be Holy, or to practice holiness. It is still the Man of God’s responsibility in scripture to sound off on un-holy things.
Let me make it very clear so some moron on here who can’t get past counting to 5 without being as confused as a termite in a yo-yo…
There are some preachers who build what I like to call a “spiritual list.” That is, that if you go to the movies with your family your not as spiritual as me, and therefore your probably not even saved.
You read a newspaper on Sunday, you go to a ballgame during the week…how can a Christian do that, where they serve alcohol??? They just can’t be saved! Let alone HOLY! Blah! Blah! Blah!
If you go to the ballgame and have a beer, and claim to be a child of God…Shame on you! How are you being separated as a child of God practicing the standard of holiness, yet you look no different than the other 40,000 people in the stands?
When the BIBLE says not to do it…And the preacher preaches on it…And it steps on your corns…You need to shut-up and take it with thanksgiving in your hearts!
Hebrews 4:12 reminds us that the word of God is powerful, and sharper then any 2 edged sword! It cuts sometimes, and it pierces! It don’t feel good…It sometimes makes us angry. But it is good for us. Man made Rules and regulations is just Blah Blah Blah to me in church! But when it is God’s rule, and that Man of God that mounts that pulpit proclaims it’s truth, and you have a problem with it???? That’s easy to understand. The Bible has pegged you over 2000 years ago…Your old hat my friend! 1st Corinthians 1:18 says that, “the Preaching of the cross is to them that parish foolishness!” It’s stupidity to the world…Why? They have never been saved! The Bible says they hate God…They war with God! They want nothing to do with God!The Bible says in Eph 6 we wrestle not against flesh and blood…Lester Roloff wasn’t the problem…Fundamentalism is not the problem…The Devil is the problem!According 2nd Corinthians 4:4 the Devil has blinded the minds of the world! Again flesh and Blood isn’t the problem…It’s Satan. Attack! Attack! Attack! that’s what most of this mumbo- jumbo over the last 2 years has been about on here. Why not attack the Devil, and start praying for one another!
I just preached at Peoples baptist Church 2 weeks ago. Only people who are 18 years and older are allowed in the homes. Why? Texas law says that if any one younger then that is there you have to have a funded license. That’s probably a good idea to protect kids from sexual predators. And by the way…Not every ministry has people there who are sexual predators. There are great people that still care about helping those in need. Most churches I know that have these types of ministries go to great length’s to cover themselves from fraud. Dont throw the baby out, with the dirty bath water…Change the water back to clean, and get on with the business of helping others.
Peoples baptist in 2011 is not the Peoples Baptist of years gone by. They are different people that is still there trying to help people back on their feet.
You ever had a 2nd chance? Something ever happen to you or someone you knew that was an unfortunate circumstance, and No ONE ever wanted to forgive them no matter how hard they tried to make it right?
that is exactly what you are doing to this ministry. let the thing die…Check into for yourself to see if the mess is gone. Stop bashing them and give them a 2nd chance. We all deserve Hell! We are all sinners. Anybody want to challenge that, your elevator dont go all the way to the top my friend.
You don’t like all that “Judgement” from the fundamentalist correct? Guess what…many of you in these posts are no different…Get the beam out of your own eye, before you cast judgement on anyone else. Your no different. See the waste?
Sorry for the novel…I’m done! have fun with what I said…Some of you won’t change…It will be obvious after this post…So attack on! Your really helping the world!
Let me check….Yup. You’ve got an e-mail address at juno.com.
Darrell – For real?
The jokes just write themselves.
I’m dead serious.
have to do a diff and see how much of that was cut and pasted from the phrase that pays thread. Someone is having fun at our expense.
Ok, I give up where in the Bible does it say you can’t go to a ballgame, or have a beer?
Or is that some of that extra biblical Billy Sunday/Lestor Roloff subjective pulpiteering? Whitewash the outer appearance is the standard for holiness isn’t it. Because you know the heart of someone by the company they keep right? Like having dinner with sinners and bringing wine to a wedding reception.
As to your second chance remark, when the Ministry acknowledges the abuses that went on under the likes of Mack Ford, Olen King and other Roloff Minions and makes restitution for their abuses in the homes then there may be forgivness. But all we see is the same ole Fundie practice of sweeping it under the rug. Then to Cannonize Roloff for his underhanded “Christian Alamo” maneuvers in order to avoid being subject to the higher powers, yeah that’s biblical. There was no liscensing, no training in counseling and no accountability for the practices used for behavorial modification and submission techniques used by the homes.
There was no accountability. For Lestor to claim that he would not be accountable to the state but only to God… eventually Lestor became the only god he was accountable to.
Ok there I’ve fed the troll.
Amen, Proverbs 27:5,6 Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. Its sad but people that have a head knowledge of Christ and not a heart knowledge just don’t want to told what to do, it just proves who their real father is.
Sorry Billy…I never got past the “termite in the Yo-Yo” reference…that told me all I needed to know…how many fundy sermon have you either (a) heard that reference or (b) actually used it yourself…probably many
This appears to me that many of you are more concerned about speaking of the dead rather than, focusing on the torch that was passed by great men like Lester Roloff and Billy Sunday. I believe we should continue their work and the church’s business of leading men and women, boys and girls to Christ. I have listened to Bro. Roloff several times and I know that was his heart beat to see others saved. With great determonation I know that we must press forward to get something done for the cause of Christ.
🙄
Praise the Lord for my father in law who is also my pastor, and a contemporary of Bro. Lester Roloff. It is sad to say that American “Christiandom” is just as much an enemy of the Jesus Christ as atheism, eastern cults, and sodomites. This generation of Americans are just like the Gadarenes who “besought him (Jesus) to depart from him.” America needs more Roloffs. Praise the Lord for using a hard headed preacher for my salvation!
Wow, this post really brought all the crazies to the yard.
And somehow I missed it til today…
I’m not crazy, I just believe the Bible.
So are you insinuating that you’re the only one on here that believes the Bible? Are you implying that we don’t believe the Bible? Or are you saying that you “just” believe the Bible and nothing else. It also seems that you are suggesting that we Hate God and that we hate the Bible. Why?
We do regularly point out the absurdity and error that is found in the cult of personality an the man-worship found in IFB pulpits. The so-called man of god is not God, contrary to the religion that is practiced in Americanized Christianity found in the IFB bunkers. Not every man that stands and calls himself a pastor/preacher/evangelist is one.
You’ve been fishing for someone to take your bait so there, I answered up. Now will you please answer the questions I asked in the first paragraph of this response? Thanks so much.
Most of the people posting on this website dont realize that this is “What fundies like”, so please get on another website, like “I Hate God”, or “I Hate the Bible”, and leave us fundies alone.
What I hate is anyone running a gulag of “homes” in which children and youth are imprisoned and systematically tortured. That’s exactly what Roloff and his staff did.
I believe in free speech, so I say he had the right to preach his insane, ignorant views to adults, but he had not right to subject minors to constant psychological and physical abuse.
What I hate is anyone running a gulag of “homes” in which children and youth are imprisoned and systematically tortured. That’s exactly what Roloff and his staff did.
I believe in free speech, so I say he had the right to preach his insane, ignorant views to adults, but he had no right to subject minors to constant psychological and physical abuse.
Oops, don’t know why that posted twice. Sorry. 😳
Because it is truth and bears repeating.
Most posters on this website would say “I pity Lester Roloff” who was neither God nor, apparently, did he read his Bible.
Sooo, Fundie = god
To out the excesses, the errors and the lies of fundamentalists in the Independent Baptist movement is to hate God.
Yep, that is straight out of the IFB Apologetics Handbook.
It is clear the spiritual battle that is increasing these days. No man is perfect, but how can you say because of some abuse that took place in a home that all IFB are fake. How can you mock and be so prideful?
My father is an IFB preacher for the past 25 years. I have been in church my whole life. I know the love of God and we share that with everyone. You dont have to be a baptist to go to heaven, YOU ONLY NEED JESUS!
I have true christian friends from every denomination(except musslim)…. (long story) and I know they are saved because they love Jesus!
Ohh by the way.. I was beat when I was a kid. I thank the Lord and my parents for the beatings I got. It made me into who I am today 🙂
Indeed.
Why did this post smoke out the diehards in such great numbers?
Wow, just fell into this site whilst researching Roloff and his sad, sick disciples. Excellent stuff. I was brought up in another cult (SDA) and have since “fallen away” to the point of agnosticism at least and atheism if it comes down to an either/or. But I love good people who are not so easily bullied and bought by the “salvation” of knaves like Roloff appears to be. Thanks for all the great writing (and the proves-your-point responses from the IFB apologists)
I was in the Rebekah Home For Girls in 1974, 1975 ( possibly part of 1976) It should have been called Roloff’s Institution of Brainwashing. Brain washing techniques were employed morning, evening, and night.
I was stripped of every freedom any American holds dear in that place. They are the Christian form of Taliban I tell you. Their mission is to stomp any form of critical thinking or individualism right out of a kid. Freeking religion nazis.
I’m sorry you experienced abuse in the name of God.
Thank you for the empathy. I read one comment on here where the person asked ” How old is that?” ..something to that effect. It doesn’t matter how old it is. It’s still very relevant today. There is a Lester Roloff facebook page & the man has been dead for years. They play his old tapes and collect money for all the new homes they plan to open. (((shudder))) The girls in that home were used to pull in money which was the REAL reason behind the programs. He’d get up there and talk about the girls like we were all a bunch of booty peddling heroin addicts. Most girls were just there because their parents wanted to unload them somewhere & that’s the truth. Yes, lots had been runaways, but usually runaways because one or more parents just did not want to be bothered with them. The first thing they did was to cut ALL communication with your family when you got there. Then when you finally did get to speak to them they listened on the phone. They read every outgoing letter & every incoming letter. There were intercoms in our rooms where they listened in on us & hauled us down for punishments or beatings because we said something they didn’t think was ‘christlike’. Everything Roloff did not like was deemed to be ‘of the world’ ‘from the street’ ‘ from the devil’. Any people with opposing opinions ‘satans helpers’. Not ONE girl in there had her period. WTH were they doing that caused that??!! Roloff remains loved and cherished for two reasons….there will always be people too LAZY to do real religious study..there will always be people too afraid to question what they have been taught. It’s always easier for a whackadoodle to listen to a sermon than to do real research. To blindly follow than to open one’s mind. You know if a man is going to beat or abuse his wife the first thing he does is try to cut her off from any friends and family he doesn’t ‘approve’ of so he can isolate her and control her. Rolloff’s methods & that of his followers isn’t any different. Isolate the person, tell them everyone else is ‘satans helper’ and then heap on the abuse in the name of Jesus. And be sure to tell the victim it’s being done out of LOVE mind you.
Abuse defined as love and God’s will can be SO damaging to someone. That had to be so confusing and disorienting to be isolated and treated that way with no way to escape.
As for it happening “a long time ago,” I recently came across this quote by C. S. Lewis in “The Problem of Pain”:
“We have a strange illusion that mere time cancels sin. I have heard myself recount cruelties and falsehoods committed in boyhood even with laughter as if they were of no concern. But mere time does nothing either to the fact or to the guilt of a sin. The guilt is washed out not by time but by repentance and the blood of Christ: if we have repented of these early sins we should remember the price of our forgiveness and be humble.”
I liked his recognition that though there is a cliche that “time heals all wounds,” that’s not exactly true in every case nor should it necessarily even BE true. Just wait long enough and egregious sins lessen their wickedness? That’s not justice.
Oh yes!
The best answer to all of this is to reclaim some language from IFBs: Lester Roloff was a tool of Satan.