157 thoughts on “No Excuses”

        1. There is no fear in love. That’s why everyone in Fundystan is so afraid.

  3. “Are you ready to stop making excuses and start obeying God?” There is so much wrong with this statement. It makes me want to shoot someone with an arrow and kill him 40 hours later, then skin him and cut his head off. Too extreme? Ok

    1. But it is maddening. He thinks he can have this blanket “You have to go to my school to obey God” attitude. He is not the Holy Spirit.

      But people will swallow his malarkey and sacrifice and come to his school to be fed his spiritual swill. That’s about what it has to be, I’m certain. His arrogance in how he handles others is astonishing.

      2. Who needs the Holy Spirit, a conscience, and a brain when you’ve got a fake doctor around who’s perfectly willing to tell you what to do?

        1. “‘This people honors me with their lips,
          but their heart is far from me;
          in vain do they worship me,
          teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.”

  4. I’m in marketing/sales management. That’s not marketing, that is desperate…

    1. Oh come on! They have the little “i” in their url – that was trendy marketing 10 years ago!

  6. How do they do hair checks and attitude checks when it’s all on line? How do they know that I’m not LGBT?

    How do they know that I’m not a Neo or Chrismatic?

    Would someone please tell me?

    How do they know that I support gay marriage?

        5. I have entered the following item on my agenda for Monday morning: check blog for AARs from Scorpio and Dr F.

    2. Oh, you just know there has to be some 20 page questionnaire to keep out the riff raff. Questions about speaking in tongues, KJVO, LGBT, pants on wimmins, obedience to the mannogawd, hair length, music, what women are wearing to bed, mixed swimming, etc.

      Probably requires a recent picture, testimony of their glorious salvation, and a letter of approval from their pastor.

        1. Gloriously saved: lived a life of depravity and debauchery until handed a track and invited to a revival service, walked the aisle, wept, and had a complete change of lifestyle

          Not-so-gloriously saved: raised in the church, led in a prayer by parents one night before bed as a five-year-old, honestly wants to please God but feels bad because no huge lifestyle change was seen (primarily because parents would spank the living snot out of you if you tried to do anything deemed “worldly”)

        2. PW:

          That’s so horribly true. I look at my own children and wonder if it’s too late.

          I just wonder, because I know it isn’t .

          B.R.1

    5. And how can they tell I’m not a woman, if my name is Francis? Or Pat? Or Jackie? HOW???!!!!!

      1. My mother explained that “Francis” is a guy’s name and “Frances” is a woman’s name. How to remember? “His” and “Francis” both have the letter ‘i’. “Her” and “Frances” both have the letter ‘e’.

        2. “He” and “Frances” both have the letter “e.” “Girl” and “Francis” both have the letter “i.”

          You’re welcome.

        4. BG, “Columbus sailed the deep blue sea in fourteen hundred ninety-three…” There’s no need to say, “Thanks.”

    1. Well maybe. If you are paying for sh*t, then you get it. But I think a lot of people would be paying, thinking they were going to get educated in the Bible and related topics. All they are going to get is junk.

      I went to school at BJU. Even while I was there, I felt sorry for the preacher boys. They thought they were the cream of the crop, and yet they weren’t really learning anything that would carry them forward. Mathematics, psychology, science — BJU wasn’t perfect in all their areas, but my education degree, the history and the math I learned was valuable. The science would have been better without the creationism, but when they stuck to facts they did okay. As a result, when I went to Clemson I was prepared for their Master’s program.

      The preacher boys, however, spent all this time studying, and trying to mould themselves into the spitting image of the Dr Bobs so they could go rule over their own little fiefdom.

      Bob Gray isn’t even offering the students that kind of chance. They won’t get training for real ministry. It will be money down the drain.

      1. Dear rtgmath,
        I was a preacherboy at BJU and I didn’t feel smug or arrogant. I thought I was following God’s will but damn! I envied the business majors. I thought I’d be punished if I wasn’t in the school of religion. Seriously.
        Best,
        BJg

        1. Thanks for telling me. Sigh, I knew so many that were, though. Or maybe they came across that way because they had to convince themselves?

          You’ve opened a new possibility. Thanks.

        2. I had a somewhat opposite experience. I was on a hall with a bunch of University Business Association guys who were such stuck up snobs, acting like it was some elite exclusive thing. They were selling sweatshirts one year with the UBA logo, really nice ones that I would have liked otherwise, but the idea that ignorant hick preacher boys should be grateful to have been favored with the privilege and status and possibly some borrowed cool-factor from being allowed to wear a UBA sweatshirt came across loud & clear. Big turnoff.

          Surely there were good business majors–I just never met any.

          By the same token, as a reluctant participant for a couple years with the preacher boys in order to get my Missionary Aviation degree, there was the whole spectrum from the Bob the 1st and Jr. imitators to regular good guys to complete rebels.

        3. Velho and rtgmath, I was an SAS Aircraft maintenance student in the mid-late ’80s. (I transferred to the Mission Aviation program my third year, mostly because I had transferred enough credits to BJU that I was out of options for SAS classes and it allowed me to take more classes.) During Summer sessions, we would come to campus for chapel, and you could tell the “ate-up” preacher boys, as they were the only ones wearing neckties in the South Carolina heat. They definitely had an attitude of superiority over a bunch of dumb wrench turners riding in the back of a pick-up to chapel.

          Happily, not everyone I met there were preacher-boys, UBA, or Omega. There were a lot of good folks, it’s just that the undesirables are the more memorable.

      4. rtgmath,
        HA”C” had very limited “educational” offerings. While taking classes for a course of study at a secular school which could have led to a career for which I would have been very well suited, I made the mistake of listening to a swaggering ignoramus and became convinced that I would be sinning against God by continuing on that path. Eventually I ended up at Jack’s “school.”

        While at HA”C,” there was a time that I was afraid that if I left, God would withhold good things from me or else He would ignore me when I prayed to Him. In the mid ’80’s, the Dallas police department was advertising for police officers, and as much as I would have liked to have tried to get on the force, I felt I couldn’t. I didn’t want to wander in the wilderness for forty years or get into heaven by the skin of my teeth like Job. Later I was afraid that if I tried to get into medical school, some poor sinner might die and go to hell because Idecided to try to become a doctor.

        Once a visiting engineering student from an accredited university sat in on one of the classes I was in. I felt ashamed. To be honest, I hated the school and was miserable attending classes and being enrolled there, and yet those feelings filled me with a great sense of guilt.

        That’s enough for now– sorry for rambling.

        2. “While at HA”C,” there was a time that I was afraid that if I left, God would withhold good things from me or else He would ignore me when I prayed to Him. In the mid ’80’s, the Dallas police department was advertising for police officers, and as much as I would have liked to have tried to get on the force, I felt I couldn’t. I didn’t want to wander in the wilderness for forty years or get into heaven by the skin of my teeth like Job. Later I was afraid that if I tried to get into medical school, some poor sinner might die and go to hell because I decided to try to become a doctor. ”

          Sounds like you heard that (paraphrased) “don’t be tricked by merely good, when you could have God’s best & most perfect will for your life” manipulation. Fundy church leadership always seemed to know just what all teens should do – especially when it involved which college they should attend.

          Some youth pastors even wrote books to “guide” teens:

          “What every young adult needs to know about making right decisions… Life…you get one chance! No u-turns, no mulligans, no re-tries. Is there a way to know for sure that you are experiencing God’s best? Is there a way to be positive that you are on the sure path of His perfect will? The ten years between ages 17 and 27 are when most people make their worst decisions. Often these decisions are irreversible! They impact generations to come, and they require divine wisdom and insight! In these pages, you will be guided step by step through the biblical principles that will help you discover God’s plan for your life. You will gain the tools you need to make right choices. You will learn God’s foolproof plan for keeping you from going astray. You will uncover the subtle deceptions that could exist even within your own heart. You will delight in God’s guiding principles for decision-making…and equip yourself to discover your destiny! If you want to live out God’s purpose for your life, if you are afraid of making a wrong turn, if you d like to know what God’s will might hold, this book is for you!”

          The above author is a HAC grad, so that might explain the similarities.

        3. Used-To-Be-Fundy, yeah, at some point we both heard “that good and acceptable and perfect will of God teaching” proclaimed in such a way that it seemed as though God’s plans for a person’ s life included a bullseye, a “Plan B”, and a consolation prize for screw ups.

          In my case, I grew up Catholic, became a born again Christian while stationed overseas, and then fell into Fundamentalism after returning to the states. It’s hard to stay with a program at a secular school when you genuinely want to please God and you’re essentially being taught that any sort of non-sectarian school is a bastion of Satan. It’s even harder when you’ve been led to believe that there is a Man of God (equal to one of the major prophets) who has a school in Indiana. That first Fundy preacher was an extraordinarily confident, remarkably ignorant man who actually seemed to believe the nonsense that was coming out of his mouth. But I was an adult and I listened to him, so what does that make me?

        4. It makes you brainwashed Ben. Don’t be too hard on yourself, it has happened to many of us and is still happening to many more.

        5. A heartbreaking account. Makes me angry to know how the Fundy agenda screwed up so many lives and squandered so much potential. What makes me angrier is that our parents were complicit, driven by the same fear. Fear is not from God, period. The ignorance/fear factor goes right up to the top of the chain of command. My only saving grace was that my parents were so cheap, Great Depression survivors and all, so I attended an evil state university because I had a scholarship. My dad had attended there as well, back when he was an apostate Lutheran, before he “saw the light” and slid down the slippery slope of Fundy Hill. I feel like I dodged a big bullet there, truly by God’s grace, something missing from the Fundypedia. Still, since I lived at home during college, I had to wear Fundy clothes, it was a real trip but I was still brainwashed enough to think I was mostly right. I also had to avoid the nice people I met who were in Campus Crusade and Intervarsity Christian Fellowship because they were considered apostate by our pastor. I missed out on what I would now consider healthy Christian experiences and relationships because of that. There is just no end to it, even in my old age more stuff surfaces that I didn’t realize was due to the Fundy deprivation of my formative years. I think I’ll go watch some SNL reruns.

    2. I’m glad I can’t afford $300/month. So I guess I get nothing!

      1. I’m sure this is not offered to women. This program is for men.

        You need to wait until they come up with their Mrs. degree program. Just think the help it will be once you learn how to clip coupons, sort laundry and vote the same way as your husband.

        1. I think Scorpio is right. College for women is really only good to help reinforce the need for women to have male leadership. 🙂

        3. I can’t afford $300/month to learn how to sort laundry. Besides, I learned that for free when I was a kid.

        4. My wife (who is extremely smart) never learned to sort laundry as a child. I’m not kidding; she can’t fold a towel to save her life.
          So that turns out to be my job.

        5. I heard that Hyles Anderson actually has or had a “degree” in being a wife and mother, like an actual course of study. This came from a woman I used to go to church with who was a total hot mess.

        6. BG, towel folding is a complicated art, almost as difficult as folding fitted sheets. Everyone has a different way of doing it. All I can say is that my way is the right way. BTW, I categorize sorting laundry and folding it as separate and different activities.

          Ready-to-leave, when I was at HAC there was a course of “study” leading to a degree gleefully named Marriage and Motherhood. I’m not sure if they called it a BA degree. I’m inclined to think that it’s just a bunch of BS. I believe it’s still a thing.

        7. What’s a wife to do if her husband insists that she think for herself in voting?

          I believe the Marriage and Motherhood “degree” was added after they were challenged on why, if they preached this was so important, that they didn’t have any degree in this very important topic.

          I seem to remember when it was added, and shaking my head at the idea.

        8. I don’t mind a degree program in home ec, but do you really need a semester course to learn how to put stuff in a slow cooker?

        2. Alright folks, folded sheets are devilishly easy to fold. You nest the corners into each other, first by twos and at the next fold, by fours. After that it is easy, just treat like a flat sheet. It is witchcraft though so proceed at your peril.

        3. Miriam, a fitted sheet never looks quite as good when you fold it after washing as it does when you take it out of the package. Kinda like roadmaps are never as neat after using as they were when you bought them at 7-11.

  10. This guy is a predator: these “Dr” preachers bully their own young people to spend their time and money on a non-education just to inflate their own egos. Check out the “courses” that are “taught” by a bunch of his elderly buddies, all with fake doctorates from other sham home-made schools. They have no shame, abuse those closest to them, and are a risible collection of human beings. Bob Gray is a pompous, bragging, empty suit of a bully — he is a blight wherever he goes. He is disgusting.

    1. A predator! Yes, you are absolutely right. People like him are predators. Wow. Thank you for this perspective.

      1. I thought their egos were plenty inflated already. I’m waiting for a few to go “pop”

    6. Wow, that’s the second new word I’ve learned so far today….”risible”, and the first was “capacious”. Where have I been all these years? Thanks. No, not poking fun, just impressed. I should read more.

  11. Nice thing about the Internet is no one knows you read the NIV.
    I am rather perplexed at how they get around the potential of being labeled a para-church ministry.
    I noticed they have Gail Riplinger listed as Faculty, specifically “KJB Consultant.”
    Also, from http://www.ibaptistcollege.org/about-us/why-an-online-college/:
    “I doubt I would move my family to sit under another man’s ministry, not because they are not good men, but because they are not Jack Hyles.”
    Hmm.
    Actually that whole page is very interesting and deserves some commentary. Specifically, Bob Gray Sr. thinks we need more mature, married men going through Bible college, so then what’s better than an online college that’s flexible. But then the early days of HAC that Bob Gray wants to bring back, were not just about learning, apparently. It’s about being under a man like Jack Hyles, a man that mature men want to emulate (per the quote I gave above). If this is all about online learning and they strive to “place an emphasis on the local church pastor leading in the training of his lay preachers” I don’t really see how he is recreating the early days of HAC through an online college. There is no penultimate Baptist leader that everyone wants to learn from and emulate in such a scenario. So there seems to be some inconsistency here.
    Online colleges are glorified correspondence courses and the IFB world has had them for ages. I’m just not “catching the vision” I guess…
    In other related reflections, they’ve got 4 instructors, a KJB consultant, and 9 course offerings total, and they aim to award four-year degrees? Assuming they get a good enrollment and the students stick around, they’ll have to ramp up pretty aggressively in the coming year or two.
    I have to point out three things that are absolutely required for online education to be successful: 1) strong familiarity with the technology, 2) exceptional time management skills, and 3) an ability to learn well by reading alone. This is why more online college students don’t finish their degrees than those in traditional colleges, because many people don’t have this combination of abilities. I wonder how they are going to handle these challenges.

    1. Why is it that the same guys who would harp on women teaching in the church if a female missionary were to speak for 5 minutes or would tell their wife to shut up in the business meeting, would bow down to Gail Riplinger for their King James nonsense. She was a professor of home economics at Texas or something, wasn’t she? So she is a woman with no qualifications…seems like that would lead them to find another blubbering idiot to continue their nonsense on that particular subject.

      How about Steven Anderson…LOL.

      1. Gail Riplinger is
        (a) ignorant; and
        (b) mentally ill.
        Neither of which seems to be a disqualification at the average Fundy U (not to mention a below-average Fundy U).

    2. Well, this is the same guy who added a Master’s program to Texas Baptist College in a month by just declaring it to be so.

    3. Yes: parachurch ministries were always derided in my circles, seen as a threat to the local church. Yet internet “colleges” open to people outside the immediate local church does seem to be parachurch.

      Then again something is only wrong until those in authority WANT to do it: then it’s OK.

  12. I feel very uncomfortable with this ad’s equating obedience to God with obedience to “Dr.” Bob Gray, Sr.

    2. This is the Fundy way.
      There is a big meshing of God/church (& programs)/pastor when it comes to service. It gets so bad that people waste their lives serving the will of man.

    3. Very true. The sheer arrogance of that statement is that to obey him is to obey God.

  13. God wants u to buy my product. y r u disobeying God? y do you hate him so? Do u even pray, bro?

    1. The person who wrote this may should not start a college because he doesn’t understand the English language.

        1. 1 Corinthians 1:25
          Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

          Or

          Because the ignorance of the preacher is wiser than than men and the misspellings of the preacher are more accurate than the dictionary.

      2. That was only part of it. Here’s Bob Gray starting a college and he has a guest post about not starting one. The irony goes beyond rich and beautiful. It’s simply breathtaking. Hits me right in the feelz.

    2. Thanks. It was humorous. Plus it had quite a few spelling and grammar errors. That person shouldn’t start a college, at any rate!

    3. That is a derivation of a somewhat common colloquialism in the south and southwest. I’ll never forget the first time I heard somebody say I “might could”.

      1. Good point but one doesn’t usually WRITE colloquially. The spoken word and the written word often follow different grammatical rules. Of course, there is also a difference between formal and informal writing styles too, but one would assume, when discussing starting an institution of higher learning, that a FORMAL approach would be preferable.

  15. Want something else to chuckle at? As I was perusing the posts on Gray’s site, there was the usual clap-trap about modesty, AKA wimminz wearing teh skirtz. The ad below the post title? It was for men’s outerwear, courtesy of Sears. I guess I need a man’s overcoat over my miniskirt, eh?

      1. It’s why I wear the miniskirts! Keep America beautiful!

        2. Thank you! I’ve been both commended and condemned for my ‘tude, Jay.

  16. Maybe it should read: “Are you ready to throw your money down the drain for a certificate in general Bible studies that you can’t use to start a career and waste a year of your life at the same time?’

  17. I don’t have a Fundy background and so I am genuinely confused about what is often called “works-based salvation”. As I understand it, many Fundy MOGS take the position that as long as you believe ON Jesus, there are no works that are necessary for your salvation. If this is your position, how can you then browbeat your flock into spending $300.00 a month to attend your Bible College? Isn’t the MOG saying that attending his Bible College is a work that is necessary if you wish to obey God?

    1. So as opposed to actual works-based systems of reconciliation, where the idea would be summarized as “you must do in order to be justified”, fundies recognize that justification is by faith, but they tack on the “you must do because you have been justified” and will declare that lack of those things is evidence that you have not been justified by faith.

      Both theologies/philosophies are efforts to rectify tensions that are found in the text of scripture, most notably illustrated by the contrasting language of Romans and James.

      By seeking to eliminate the tension, they damage the actual meaning of both endpoints. In many fundy churches its not even so much what is said about salvation or sanctification, its the practical outworking of those things in the life that become problematic. Its why it can be very subtle and difficult to nail down the problems because they will deny that they believe what they actually believe since they recognize that what you are accusing them of is indefensible, so obfuscation and wordsmithing must be used to create wiggle room. I incensed one of my fundy mentors greatly when I asked (paraphrasing Paul in the epistles) “who has bewitched you? Why since you have been freed from the oppression of the law do you seek to become a slave to it once more?”

      If they were blind they would be free from judgement, its because they claim to be able to see clearly that they are condemned.

      2. Captain Solo,

        That is a great description, and the verse you quoted is spot on. I experienced a lot of double-speak from my former mannogawd involving many subjects:

        Grace/works

        Claiming he rarely preached on giving, but inserting the subject into many sermons and creating a 64-step fundraising scheme to maximize donations year after year.

        Bragging on the teens and college students for their solid Christian testimony and how they are an example of the best of the best – while micromanaging practically every aspect of their lives, because they can’t be trusted to do the right things.

        Salvation and the growth of the church is from God, but if there are no bodies lining up for baptism each and every Sunday there is something wrong with the staff.

  18. God has called you to a faith that frees you from the oppression of the law, with a joyous and abundant life of obedience and relationship with him. It will result in the breaking of every chain of bondage to the traditions of men and the tired theology of earning your righteousness with human efforts. Are you ready to stop making excuses and start obeying God?

  19. I don’t think much of his choice of president. Looking at his bio, he doesn’t seem to stay anyplace very long.

    Plus, I’ve heard him speak twice; one message was OK, but the other message was straight Jim Jones Guyana stuff about how the pastor should be obeyed without question.

    1. Why get your degree from an accredited school accountable for what it teaches in an area that can help you get a new job? Just trust that our unaccredited diploma mill with no accountability will provide what you need to be a wage slave at a dead end job and a willing worker at your church!

  21. 15 credit hours costing only $300 a month for the semester….sorry that doesn’t sound like a deal. That sounds like a scam to me…

    1. $240 for a 16-week “3 credit” course? Well, tuition at a NC community college is $72 per credit hour. In Indiana, tuition is $135 per credit hour.

      1. …….but at this ”school” you are paying for nothing, not actual credit hours, just passing the time

      2. community colleges are a different breed than a private, specializing college. When I see private colleges have really cheap rates, it sends up a lot of flags.

    2. The difference is that Bob Gray probably won’t leave you alone after he takes your money.

      1. The difference between him, and people like him, and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist only ttakes your skin

  24. So I go and spend $9,600 dollars and 4 years of my life for a “degree” and what do I get in return? Can I get a better paying job? nope.

  25. How many Bob Grays are there out there? What, if your name is Robert Gray you’re doomed to be a fundy freak show?

    I hear about all these dead Bob Grays, and more keep popping into view.

    Good grief, people.

    1. Florida Bob Gray was the sex offender. This is Texas Bob Gray, the egomaniacal Hylesite.

    2. Here’s a memory aid for you B.R.O.
      (with no disrespect towards, and sympathy for, the first Bob Gray’s victims)

      To the tune of “Three Blind Mice”

      Two Bob Grays, both Fundy/Fun–
      Two Bob Grays, here’s number one:
      The first Bob Gray was a pedophile–
      Catching this bastard took quite a while.
      The prick kicked the bucket before his trial–
      That’s Bob Gray One.

      Bob Gray Two’s ego measures in miles,
      There haven’t been any criminal trials,
      But. he. worships. a. guy. named Hyles.
      That’s Bob Gray Two–
      You can find him in Longview [Texas].

      2. Well, B.P., that was clever!

        …but I still thought there must be a couple dozen Mogs out there who go by Bob Gray.

        Or maybe I’m just thinking of all the Doctors Bobs?

        B.R.1

        1. Why is Bob Gray, Sr. being involved in a civil suit of this kind not the least bit surprising?

  27. So one of the faculty members for this new online “college” is 85 years old.

    Anyone who thinks an 85 year old is going to be attentive to the students of an online class has expectations which are doomed to disappointment.

      1. At 10:39 Dave Baker explains how the KJV corrects the Greek originals. Double inspiration.

        16:40
        “If people knew that, then they would look at the King James Bible as the authority that it is, and not some “original only” garbage.
        In fact, we are constantly told we have to go back to the Greek. The King James Bible was printed in 1611, and the Greek New Testament we used in Bible college was printed in 1881.”

        (Appeal to antiquity fallacy – while denying the value of other antiquity…just bizarre.)

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