23 thoughts on “Hymns”

    1. It’s interesting that Jack van Impe still makes the cut at this time.

      Eric, is there a date that says what year this is from?

  2. The hymnbook is “Soul Stirring Sons and Hymns” compiled by John R. Rice D.D. and Joy Rice Martin M.F. A. and published by Sword of the Lord around 1972. It includes such great (?) congregational songs as “Ship Ahoy”, Handel’s “Hallelujah Chorus” (6 pages), and a number of the famous(?) hymns composed by John R. Rice himself. It includes a terrible version of “There Is A Fountain” in which the last verse has been re-written to be sung:
    Then in a nobler, sweeter song, I’ll sing Thy power to save,
    When this poor lisping, stammering tongue lies silent in the grave,
    Lies silent in the grave, lies silent in the grave.
    When this poor lisping, stammering tongue lies silent in the grave,
    That kind of repetition will really put the joy, joy, joy down deep in your heart.

    All it’s missing is Wally Beebe’s famous “There’s Room on the Bus for You”. (No, I’m not kidding.)

    I heard that when Dr. Bob Jones Jr. was approached to pick his favorite hymn for the collection, he chose “Come Ye Disconsolate” with the wry knowledge that that it would probably be the least sung hymn of any in the book.

  3. Ron is correct. 1972 was the year. It also includes the lovely song written by JRR called “Let the Sun Shine Again In My Heart’ subtitled (The Backslider’s Song).

  4. Today’s hymnbook would include Joel Olseen’s favorite song:

    “Look at me, I’m so Wonderful!”

    subtitled, Don’t you want to be like me?

  9. Dr. Alfred B. Smith lead the hymn singing at a national fundamental conference I went to growing up in the early 90’s. I have very fond memories of hearing him sing.

  10. Dr. Al Smith was a great singer, and marvelous with music. But I doubt they would have included him here had they known he would rub shoulders with Bill Gothard in the late 80’s and early 90’s. Surely he can’t be a fundamentalist if he associates with Bill Gothard.

  12. Heh, interesting. I would consider the movement around him very much so. Personally, I would not say that about the man. I think part of the reason for the change in his ministry approach is because he realized the ministry wasn’t going the way he wanted it to. I think it grew too big for him to handle alone and people he brought in to help didn’t have the right vision. (Based on my perceptions in the late 80’s from the times I met him.)

    Now the movement as a whole is very elitist, rules-based, and holier-than-thou. Although there are individual exceptions, by and large the people I meed involved now very much fit those characteristics. Which, more than the Five Fundamentals, define the IFB movement.

    However, Gothard is not KJV-only. He never (to my knowledge) repudiated directly the Roman Catholics or “hand-wavers” (Charismatics) who attended the huge seminars. That is what led preachers and BJU and the like to dis-associate from him (that separation issue and all). So to the “right-wingers” he is not Fundamentalist (not the capital “F”), but yes, his movement definitely has produced a fundamentalist group.

  13. In my copy, Dr. Bob Moore and Evangelist Robert L Sumner are mysteriously missing from that page. Mine is a newer copy from the late 80s I’d guess, still says copywright 1972, though. It’s easy to guess why Sumner was stripped from the list, but I don’t know who Moore is.

    I actually have a hymnbook with that version of the favorite song page as well….

  14. Bill Gothard is MOST DEFINITELY a fundamentalist…and he only uses the KJV. I grew up immersed in his ministry (ATI); in the youth programs the printed rule always was “memorize this passage in the KJV”, and the entire homeschool curriculum is based on Matthew 5 in the KJV. He may have let charismatics attend his seminars…but the ATI “Wisdom Booklets” talked about tongues actually being demons speaking through people.

    The legalism and fundamentalism come out when you attend the Advanced Seminar and join ATI. The Basic is a little milder, and most don’t go beyond that…but Gothard hasn’t changed from the 80’s. The legalism was definitely there back then as well.

  15. Lis,

    I’ve known a lot of Gothard folks and what you said here is what I’ve heard from almost all of them.

    It’s a scary movement.

  16. The difference between Gothard and some of the other IFB is that the way you live matters more than what you believe – i.e. if you wear dresses, listen to hymns, use the KJV, etc., etc., you’ll be accepted in ATI, whether you’re IFB, Presbyterian, Mennonite, etc. That makes it more dangerous than even classical IFB movements, because people do not care about the Baptist label or doctrine. Hence the mix of teachings that I now look at and see were far closer to Word of Faith theology than Independent Baptist (I grew up in an IFB church as well as following Gothard), but because the rules were the same, people believed the doctrine and didn’t care.

  19. First of all, I appreciate the sarcasm of BJII; I’m sure he was waiting for the day to use that song for something.

    Second, that is the strangest hymnal ever written. It is a compilation from John R. Rice that seems to be missing about 100 of the most common songs (including How Great Thou Art), while including about 100 John R. Rice songs that you’ve never heard.

  20. Ha. We use that one in church. Personally I liked the Majesty hymnbook better, even though I didn’t know half the songs. I’ve just been using Soul Stirring since I was born (no joke) and I’m getting tired of singing the same songs over…and over….and over.

    I’ve always wondered: is that THE Dale Evans? The Ray Rogers’ Dale?

  21. This must be a different copy than mine, in the one I have they had no women’s favorites at all since of course women don’t matter, even our favorite songs don’t matter. I’m glad in the old one Dale Evans was on the list. At least one woman made it! 👿

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