126 thoughts on “Cause and Effect Redux”

  4. But wait … what about the school shootings that occurred in the 1800s? Or did they somehow get hold of a time machine, listen to rock music and then mosey back to their own age to shoot up their schools?

    I’m so confused.

    1. I keep wondering what it sounded like when preachers in the 1700s ranted about how listening to that Mozart garbage made people take drugs, kill each other, and turn homosexual.

    3. There were preachers in the 1800s, they wouldn’t have even considered talking about rock music.

      Thanks again, Billy!

  5. OK so it’s the rock music and video games. I don’t suppose the easy access to guns has anything to do with it either.

    So I only listened to the first 4 minutes. Maybe later on he brought up our Biblical commandment to own as many guns as possible.

    1. Well guns should be easier to access so people can defend themselves against these lunatics and their “head-bangings.”!!!!!

      *sigh….

      1. Illinois now has conceal/carry laws. Guess what is on the door of the schools in our district? No gun signs. So for those who say the teachers should have guns – they legally can’t bring them into the building. Duh!

        1. At the door of my office building (also in IL) as well. I’m not too concerned about the threat of workplace violence, but I’d feel some comfort knowing my Army veteran employee was prepared to deal with such a threat.

    2. Access to firearms doesn’t help Castle’s argument much. They were easier to access in the “old days” when supposedly these things didn’t happen.

      In real life, the murder suicide rate has been steadily declining since the 1930s, when it reached its peak in the US.

      1. The Prohibition Era was from 1919 to 1933. Prohibition raised the cost of alcohol, bring greater profits — and the profits went to the gangs of the day, the mobsters. Along with the money came conflict with law enforcement, turf wars, corruption in high and low places, and a general disgust with Prohibition.

        With repeal of Prohibition, crime rates dropped dramatically, particularly violent crime.

        Now, if we were to end prohibition on “drugs,” think of what might happen.

        No, we would not be a nation of addicts. That has not happened to any other nation that has decriminalized drugs! Most people wouldn’t bother with them. Some would try them experimentally. And yes, we would have the addicts. We have alcoholics today.

        But criminalizing drugs hasn’t stopped very many from trying them! Criminalization hasn’t eliminated addiction. It has greatly fueled violence and gang activity, has expanded the need for law enforcement beyond what we would have needed, and has militarized the police force, leading many to ignore civil and human rights of the people they are supposed to “serve and protect.”

        And of course, the biggest supporters of the violence are the ones who keep wanting to impose their moral agendas on everyone else. By supporting prohibition, they support the violence.

  6. Yeah, has to be the rock music. No way could we blame any of the hell fire and damnation preachers that run the youth off from their churches because they wore shorts or the girls wore britches.

  7. So, I wonder what causes the preacher boys to rape and molest?? What causes preachers and missionaries to sexually assault victims? Hymns?? Just wondering.
    If music is to blame, then perhaps they should be accountable for the music they play in churches.

    1. “So, I wonder what causes the preacher boys to rape and molest?? What causes preachers and missionaries to sexually assault victims? Hymens?”

      Fixed that for you.

      It’s those slutty whore-like little girls who just bring out all the uncontrollable urges in godly men … It’s not like the men can actually help it or anything.

      1. Yep.

        Those evil floozies were listening to Rock -n- Roll, thereby causing themselves to be under the influence of the wicked one, thereby causing those very godly men to be seduced and fall into sin because of the aforementioned Rock -n-Roll that those evil girls listened to before those godly men fell, of no fault of their own, to the temptresses.

        Horrible.

        1. I figure those preachers and missionaries must have accidentally overheard some rock music at WalMart or at a NASCAR race or some such otherwise wholesome place.

          Then they were powerless to keep themselves from raping, molesting, etc.

      2. I recommend “I Fired God” by Jocelyn Zichterman if you all haven’t read it yet. It has much to say about the repression & abuse of females in the IFB culture.

        1. I’ve read it because I personally know so many of those involved.

          That was a hard read.

          If only 50% of it was accurate (and I’m not saying that is the case), that would be enough for me to curl up in a ball in the corner of my bathroom right next to the john.

        2. B.R.O.
          The book was definitely a hard read. It was extremely upsetting to me, and I thought I’d seen it all. You’re right–if only 50% of it is true….

      3. This is such a relief to know it’s the slutty women that make my wandering eyes wander! 🙂

        1. Definitely not your fault. Not like you have control over your own eye muscles or anything.

  8. Quote; “Arts… are certainly not the cause of it”

    “what did he say -he said “music in not contributing to teen violence”…

    Ummmm.. no you idiot. These two statements are NOT the same;
    1. Arts are not the cause of teen violence
    2. Music does not contribute to teen violence

    Anyone who starts their “message” with a misquote has lost me the minute they open their mouth.

  9. There are darker elements in music for sure. Simon and Garfunkel isn’t the same as say, ACDC.

    Music does effect mood.

    Ultimately, what’s in the heart of man already will guide him in his actions. Men have done evil things long before Chuck Berry and Elvis Presley…or Simon and Garfundel and ACDC.

    Remember when Bob Gray preached against Elvis? What ever happened to dear old Bob Gray?

    B.R.O.

    1. It seems to me that angry people listen to angry music.
      It’s not that music makes them angry. In fact, it may be cathartic, relieving some of the anger.

      1. This is exactly it.

        There’s dark music because there’s a need for dark music. When you’re in a dark mood, sometimes you need music that you feel you can relate to, that you can understand and that understands you. It helps. The last thing you want, when you feel truly black and dark inside, is to put on sunshiny happy music – it does NOT make you feel better, or encourage you, or lift your spirits. It rings false, and makes you feel worse. At that time, only something sort of bleak will work. “At least there’s somebody out there that understands how I feel.” Often followed by music that’s bleak, with an undertone of hope. Etc. Most people who aren’t trapped by the fundy hymn book have a wider spectrum of musical styles to choose from, for whatever suits them, when they need it.

        Of course, fundies also have the problem of literalism in music critique – reading every lyric as a position statement, or direct call to action, rather than understanding that many times lyrics are rage at the way the world is, vivid description of real emotional pain, or other subtle metaphor that is simply beyond the grasp of the fundamentalist mind. Fundies don’t do metaphor well.

        1. “Fundies don’t do metaphor well”-I’ll have to get that written down somewhere where I can see it every time I get into a discussion involving family members and popular culture.

      2. I listen to Metal predominately and I wouldn’t consider myself an angry person. I just love the music.

    2. There definitely are different kinds of music! (Not that fundies agree: as explained in the bifurcation post, if it’s not pre-1950s, Ron Hamilton, hymns, or classic music, it must be evil, according to them.)

      But as we listen to it, our spirits can accept and enjoy it or chose to reject it because what we choose to listen to does reveal what is in our hearts. For example, I refuse to listen to misogynistic music that describes violence against women.

      1. In general, I agree with you about misogynistic music (I assume it’s the lyrics we’re talking about here). I don’t like it at all.

        But here’s the point: If you did listen to some really misogynistic songs or rap numbers, would hearing them make you run out and harm a woman? I think not.

        1. No, a person listening to misogynistic lyrics would not likely run out & harm a woman. But, those lyrics make misogyny acceptable, so the person listening will be less likely (over time) to see misogyny as a problem.

  10. Typical fundy preaching. So much ranting that by the time he makes a point, I have been turned into a zombie. 😛

    2. His jealousy of the power and influence of rock performers is so apparent! The juxtaposition of his screaming with the screaming of the metal bands is very telling – rockers and preachers have more in common than either would care to admit!!

  11. Of course in the thirties, forties, and fifties, it was comic books that set America’s youth on the road to perdition! Take that Jack Chick!

  12. Libertine men and Scarlet women and Ragtime
    Shameless music that’ll grab your son and your daughter
    With the arms of an aninal instinct
    Mass hysteria!
    Meredith Wilson “The Music Man”

    2. With the arms of a jungle animal instinct.

      Friends, the idle brain is the devil’s playground!

      1. Oh, ya got trouble!
        Right here in River City!
        With a capital T,
        And that rhymes with…. okay, okay, I’ll stop. : weak grin:

      2. If the idle brain is the Devil’s playground (which I could argue it is, but that’s not the point of this comment), then Danny Castle’s brain must have been completely blank when he thought all this up, because this is a bunch of crap. I made it to about the part where he said cutting was proof of demon possession, nearly blew a gasket over his lies, and shut it off.
        Funny how his lies are what angered me more than the rock music clips he was playing…
        And don’t even get me started with him trying to link cutting to demon possession.
        On second thought I’ll add my two cents just to piss this guy off. Maybe someone else will find my comment and know they’re not alone. You can be a Christian, be depressed, and not be a sinner/not even a true Christian because of the depression.
        Was never a cutter but I had suicidal thoughts at one point for three years straight and even attempted to take my life more than once. It’s a chemical imbalance in the brain, NOT demon possession. There’s a reason there’s meds, counseling, and etc, for depression and I’m pretty sure the Lord isn’t using medication to exorcise demons out of people. Jesus certainly didn’t use medication when exorcising the demon possessed man in the region of Gerasenes. Could maybe argue He used a little counseling but still. Mark 5:1-20 for reference.
        As for the demon possession part I’d like to clarify some things. Did Satan try to take advantage of said chemical imbalance in my brain? Does Satan still try to make me relapse? Yes, but that is not demon possession any more than Satan pushing the buttons he knows have the best chance of getting you to lie, or, in the case of Danny Castle, spout more lies to make the rest of us Christians look like we believe a bunch of bunk.
        I’d also like to add why I’m still alive 7+ years after this “demon possession.” Thanks to God and His use of “Voice of Truth” by Casting Crowns I’m still alive. God used what this guy would classify as “school shooting music”, regardless of the Christian sub-genre, to keep me alive.

        1. Hey, unxregalo, Thanks for posting that. Important words.

          There is indeed a long history of fundamentalists of all stripes blaming whatever they don’t understand on demon possession. Sadly, that includes clinical depression. We know now, of course, that it’s a medical condition, and treatable, but there are plenty of fundies out there who want to blame anything they can on sin, or on “not trusting God enough,” or whatever turns of phrase make them feel superior. Don’t listen to any of them – not for one minute.

          Rather, be thankful to God that He’s allowed you to live in a time when we have a better understanding of depression, and how to treat it. If he didn’t want you to seek treatment, He wouldn’t have created doctors, right? 🙂 Seek whatever treatment you need to heal, from therapy to the appropriate medication, prescribed by a physician who’s treating you. And know that your condition is simply a biologically based medical condition, no different than any other physical ailment, and is not your fault.

          And of course, listen to whatever music you need to listen to, in whatever mood you find yourself.

          Having done all that, leave the fundy preachers where they belong, with the snake handlers and witch doctors, faith healers, and other quacks. Anyone who tells you your depression is demonic, or a sin problem, belongs on the dust pile of history.

        2. I find the story of Jesus healing the demon-possessed Gadarene/Gerasene rather fascinating. It’s in all three of the Synoptic Gospels (one man is cured in Mark and Luke; two people are in Matthew). In all three versions, the city leaders were pissed off and frightened by the healing, and begged Jesus to leave.
          The Gospel comes as good news to the poor and the afflicted, but it can look like bad news to those who own large herds of swine.

  13. I wonder how many of these killers ate breakfast? Perhaps that is the cause? Or drank water.

    If you go to any public high school in the nation, probably 97% of all students listen to rock music. Just because two things happen does not mean that they are related.

    I remember a teacher in high school pointing out that the suicide rate at Coney Island increased when the sold more ice cream. Using this guy’s logic, that means that ice cream is causing suicide and should be banned. [for people wondering, they sold more ice cream because more people were in attendance; the percentage of suicides was about the same, but with more people, one had higher actual numbers]. That illustration has been very helpful to me over the years.

    Having said all of that, I fully agree with BRO that some rock music has a dark or demonic side. Rock has an unsavory reputation – at least, when I was growing up, it was closely associated with drug use, rebellion, and promiscuous sex.

    1. Well said.
      You remind me of the old saying that the three kinds of lies are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

      Another example–
      At the beginning of World War I, the British army didn’t issue steel helmets to all its troops. Then someone apparently noticed that soldiers were getting head wounds, so they gave the guys in the trenches metal hats. But the number of soldiers being treated in field hospitals for severe head wounds went up, not down, after the troops got helmets.
      Conclusion: You’re in more danger with a helmet on than without one.

      This is, of course, ridiculous. No more people got hit in the head with helmets than without helmets. But soldiers with helmets were far more likely than those without to survive a hit to the head. So more of the helmet-wearers ended up in the hospital instead of the morgue.

  14. Cause & effect in crime rates is difficult (or impossible) to determine. About a year ago, Mother Jones published a study that compared the levels of environmental lead with the crime rate (demonstrating that crime rates have gone down since the introduction of unleaded gasoline, etc). The article didn’t claim to draw a definite conclusion, but it was a compelling read.

    1. I didn’t read that article, but a lot of other things also happened in those years.
      It would take a lot of statistical analysis to show that lead was a factor in the crime rate changes.
      (There’s no doubt that lead pollution poisons people. It’s just that it’s very hard to show that it is a major cause of crime.)

      4. As someone who’s not a pastafarian but a still Christian survivor of IFBism, would now be an inappropriate time to mention one of my favorite ways of poking fun at certain IFBer’s approved “holier than thou” music is to sing “I have more spaghettis and meatballs than youuuu doooooooo?” Because that’s exactly what I do.
        This is most often sung in a Gregorian Chant like tune in the most Pharisaical “I thank God I’m not like that tax collector” way I can muster and I’m not even the least bit sorry about it. Mostly because I have nothing to apologize for.
        I have nothing against hymns. There are hymns I enjoy. Adore even. Right along side my Casting Crowns, RelientK, Josh Groban, Imagine Dragons, Katy Perry, and other such school shooting inducing music. :snark: The problem I have is with people like Danny Castle who go around with a stick up their arse, loudly proclaiming their music is holier than yours (and mine) when it’s quite likely the tunes David’s Psalms would have been/had been? written to would have been the most modern music for his time.

  15. Wow, a fifteen-minute rant against “evil” music that focuses mostly on Columbine and yet there was only one fleeting Marilyn Manson reference!

    1. I don’t know if you’ve seen “Bowling for Columbine,” but it includes a very funny sequence that shows pundit after pundit saying “Marilyn Manson” was the cause of youth violence. Then the filmmaker (Michael Moore) eventually interviews Marilyn Manson himself. He asks something like, “If you could talk to the families of Columbine victims, what would you say to them?” Manson says, “Nothing. I’d listen to what they have to say.”
      That gave me new respect for Marilyn Manson. I didn’t hear anyone else say that about the Columbine tragedy– everyone was too busy trying to advance their own agendas. I’d never paid much attention to Manson before– his music isn’t really to my taste. But he had some insight there.

      1. Manson also does a really good O’Reilly interview. He gets attacked left and right, yet still defends himself eloquently, passionately, while still not confronting the loony Bill

  16. So rock music “causes” school shootings?

    Nonsense. While a common factor of shooters may be rock music, so is breathing, eating, walking, etc. Common factors do not make causation.

    How about bullying? Significantly, a large number of school shooters are not the bullies, but their victims. Taking away all sense of power from a person can cause that person to go to extremes to regain personal power over their lives.

    This need to regain power, to get attention, to be taken seriously is common among people who turn violent. We often look at the act of violence and forget that there were precursors. Things happened beforehand that contributed to the event.

    We could have prevented a lot of disasters in our history if we had learned this lesson and been willing to give people hope. When we put people in a hopeless position, they rebel. If people have nothing to lose, violence is natural.

    In other words, many people are the monsters they have been made into by others, not by what they decided to be on their own.

    It can be argued that the school shooters should not have taken out their frustrations with violence. But people look for the choices they have, and they do not settle for having no options, no power.

    When dealing with others, leave their options open. Do not make them feel powerless. Give them hope for the future, and a voice to express their grievances. This works across the board. Marriages, children, school, business relationships, society at large and foreign relations.

    Radicalization is done to a person by increasing their feelings of hopelessness and limiting their response choices to the more extreme forms.

    If we learned our lessons and promoted positive change in behavior toward others, we could significantly lessen the numbers of these violent incidents.

    2. rtgmath wrote:

      “Taking away all sense of power from a person can cause that person to go to extremes to regain personal power over their lives. ”

      This, rtgmath, is so very true! Perhpas this is a large part of violent action in schools. It doesn’t take away individual responsibility for the actors themselves, but it is a very good point.

      rtgmath continued:

      “When dealing with others, leave their options open. Do not make them feel powerless. Give them hope for the future, and a voice to express their grievances.”

      This is a major part of the solution. It not only works in the context of the victims of bullying, but in everyday life in general; in the home, at work, with neighbors. People need to be heard and feel that their opinion matters. It will not stop every evil act of violence, but it may stop some of them.

      B.R.O.

  17. How old is Danny Castle?

    Because this talk is almost word-for-word the same as some that I heard child preachers give many years ago. With the same level of mental maturity.

  18. Brother Castle must have listened to a great deal of this evil music so he could tell us how bad it is.

    That makes me wonder how many other sacrifices he makes in the course of researching his sermons.

    Smoking crack?
    Drinking vodka?
    Hiring prostitutes?
    Watching lots of porno movies?
    Robbing corner grocery stores?
    Shooting people?

    All for the sake of denouncing such things, of course.

  19. During the first few seconds I thought to myself “calm man with a goatee, wearing a tux? No way this man is fundy!” Unfortunately, I listened further and was corrected.

    This man needs a basic Christian doctrine course before he continues preaching. Shifting the blame for our bad actions onto external things absolves us of some of our guilt in our own minds.
    A mature person does not blame other people or things for their bad actions. Ultimately, you are responsible before God for your misdeeds. Not rock music, alcohol, your upbringing or anything else.

      1. I heard from the pulpit- and my parents- that mental illness was a manifestation of demon possession.

        It still horrifies me, years later. A terrible thing to believe.

  20. It seems like the speaker’s focus is on his perceived cause of teen violence rather than on the actual problem of teen violence. What type of research goes on in fundy colleges and universities to address the problem of teen violence? My guess is none. How many peer-reviewed research articles did the speaker read prior to his rant? My guess is none. They don’t care about fixing social problems. In their minds, the effect of variable A on variable B is usually a no brainer. As in this case, relationship of rock music to teen violence makes for a great sermon and sells a lot of books…. the dangerous and misleading results of a shallow fundy “college” education.

  21. I personally listen to rock music. This guy’s insane. The music itself, to me, is just a release–a way to release the pent up anger and bitterness I harbor. Screaming is good to me, i can let it out. Part of the reason I listen is that most of what good rock talks about is extremely relatable. Being a [fundy] outcast? Check. Being abused? Check. Thoughts suppressed? Check. Emotions suppressed? Check. For me, Fundyism made rock music so much better.

    Though on an unrelated note, modern pop music might cause me to go crazy…

  22. I had a lovely Easter, although the Easter service would probably have left Danny Castle and his ilk absolutely apoplectic. After the congregation sat down, the bell choir moved their tables across the back of the sanctuary, so that the waiting procession could not get in. Then they played the prelude: “Hallelujah” by Leonard Cohen. After that they moved the tables aside, the procession came in , and we all launched into “Christ The Lord Is Risen Today.”

    How we saw it: The cynicism and despair of the world is broken and filled with light by the triumph of Easter morning.

    Probable Castle-esque interpretation: EVIL ROCK MUSIC SEXNDRUGSNDEMONSNGUNS

  23. I know a fellow who is a bouncer at major musical events at a large arena. The crowds are the most difficult to control, and where the most incidents happen …..
    … not heavy metal..
    …not teenage heartthrobs…

    Country Music. Yip. Or is it yeehaa! 🙂

    1. I believe it. I’ve ben to my share share of metal concerts and most people are really chill at them. I’ve never run into any problems at a show.

  24. This was painful to listen to. the “-uh” after every other word was bad. But the atrocious grammar has be breaking out in hives. Hard to listen to what he says, when the delivery is so terrible.

      1. I thought you (or should I say George) were trying to say “bees breaking out in hives” har har har…

  25. Listening to Marylin Manson right now. I wonder if people have actually paid any attention to lyrics in any of these songs? Because in my reading, “Dope Show”, at least, is telling you that fame and excess are hollow. (“They love you when you’re on all the covers/when you’re not, then they love another.” Could have been penned by the prodigal son.)

    Of course, saying rock music causes school shootings is just easier. If rock is wicked, I can just ban it and rest comfortably in my whitewashed crypt, versus, you know, having to look at the effect that my pride or anger or domineering attitude might have on people below me, or on my children.

    1. Great point! Real life is always more complicated and challenging than this sort of preacher wants to admit.

  26. I’ve seen full beatdowns happen at Irish music concerts and Hanson shows. (Hanson fans are fanatical and do not mess around, you get their seat up front, they’re coming for you.) I have seen/been involved with violence at punk shows too, but not to the same extent. More like “LET GO OF MY BOOB *whap*”.

    The punk, metal and rock I listened to as a depressed young teen saved me. It didn’t make things worse, it made them better. The Ramones gave me hope-those guys were weirdos, and if they could make it that far, I should be fine.

  27. I remember Jack Van Impe declaring that rock music was sent to America from Communist Russia to corrupt young people. I don’t know how Communist Russia managed to go back in time and make sure that traditional black gospel and blues were invented and then mixed with all the right elements to form rock and roll. Then they called in their sleeper agent Elvis Presley (who was in really deep cover from birth-they also had a way of making sure he could actually…you know…sing) to make it palatable to white audiences in the name of the fatherland.

    That plus the fact that the music industry is one of the most capitalistic things going….really great cover.

    But other than that…yes. I suppose it makes sense. 😉

    1. Wow, now I understand how the Beatles came up with the song “back in the U.S.S.R.” – makes total since now.

      (“You don’t know how lucky you are, boy…”)

  28. Made it through 2 minutes before I had to turn it off. Going to need to get the Led out to cleanse my ears of that tripe.

  29. We need more old fashioned preachers
    pouring out their hearts in prayer.
    When you’re in their presence
    you know that the Lord is there
    We need a Nation wide revival
    to put the love of God in our souls
    We need a whole lot more of Jesus
    and a Lot Less Rock and Roll

    Written by Wayne Raney, covered by Linda Ronstadt on the album “Silk Purse” and I don’t think it’s a Poe.

  30. When former Lancaster Baptist Assistant Pastor Jeremy Whitman lied in wait and viciously shot and killed his alleged best friend in another car, we were told it was because his doctor had written him a prescription for pain meds following a shoulder injury.

    So now rock-n-roll is the cause of such violence.

    I wish Fundies would make up their mind.

    1. And Jack Schaap sexually assaulted a teen because he was under so much stress at work and his prostate was giving him trouble.

      There is always a lame excuse for all their sins. They never seem to come from the heart of man, always some external force.

      1. Lyrics:

        New blood joins this earth
        And, quickly, he’s subdued
        Through constant pained disgrace
        The young boy learns their rules

        With time, the child draws in
        This whipping boy done wrong
        Deprived of all his thoughts
        The young man struggles on and on, he’s known
        A vow unto his own
        That never from this day
        His will they’ll take away

        What I’ve felt
        What I’ve known
        Never shined through in what I’ve shown
        Never be
        Never see
        Won’t see what might have been

        What I’ve felt
        What I’ve known
        Never shined through in what I’ve shown
        Never free
        Never me
        So I dub thee “Unforgiven”

        They dedicate their lives
        To running all of his
        He tries to please them all
        This bitter man he is

        Throughout his life the same
        He’s battled constantly
        This fight he cannot win
        A tired man, they see no longer cares
        The old man then prepares
        To die regretfully
        That old man here is me

        What I’ve felt
        What I’ve known
        Never shined through in what I’ve shown
        Never be
        Never see
        Won’t see what might have been

        What I’ve felt
        What I’ve known
        Never shined through in what I’ve shown
        Never free
        Never me
        So I dub thee “Unforgiven”

        What I’ve felt
        What I’ve known
        Never shined through in what I’ve shown
        Never be
        Never see
        Won’t see what might have been

        What I’ve felt
        What I’ve known
        Never shined through in what I’ve shown
        Never free
        Never me
        So I dub thee “Unforgiven”

        Never free
        Never me
        So I dub thee “Unforgiven”

        You labeled me
        I’ll label you
        So I dub thee “Unforgiven”

        Never free
        Never me
        So I dub thee “Unforgiven”

        You labeled me
        I’ll label you
        So I dub thee “Unforgiven”

        Read more: Metallica – Unforgiven Lyrics | MetroLyrics

        1. Yep. That was me. I was the Unforgiven, the scape goat of the family, the one trying to please everyone else but never could.

          Thanks for the song. It means a lot.

        2. New blood joins this earth
          And quickly he’s subdued
          Through constant pained disgrace
          The young boy learns their rules

          With time the child draws in
          This whipping boy done wrong
          Deprived of all his thoughts
          The young man struggles on and on he’s known
          A vow unto his own
          That never from this day
          His will they’ll take away-eay

          Chorus:

          What I’ve felt
          What I’ve known
          Never shined through in what I’ve shown
          Never be
          Never see
          Won’t see what might have been
          What I’ve felt
          What I’ve known
          Never shined through in what I’ve shown
          Never free
          Never me
          So I dub thee UNFORGIVEN

          They dedicate their lives
          To RUNNING all of his
          He tries to please THEM all
          This bitter man he is
          Throughout his life the same
          He’s battled constantly
          This fight he cannot win
          A tired man they see no longer cares
          The old man then prepares
          To die regretfully
          That old man here is me

          What I’ve felt
          What I’ve known
          Never shined through in what I’ve shown
          Never be
          Never see
          Won’t see what might have been
          What I’ve felt
          What I’ve known
          Never shined through in what I’ve shown
          Never free
          Never me
          So I dub thee UNFORGIVEN

          (instrumental)

          What I’ve felt
          What I’ve known
          Never shined through in what I’ve shown
          Never be
          Never see
          Won’t see what might have been
          What I’ve felt
          What I’ve known
          Never shined through in what I’ve shown
          Never free
          Never me
          So I dub thee UNFORGIVEN

          whoa, whoa

          Never Free
          Never Me
          So I dub thee UNFORGIVEN
          You labeled me
          I’ll label you
          So I dub thee UNFORGIVEN
          Never Free
          Never Me
          So I dub thee UNFORGIVEN
          You labeled me
          I’ll label you
          So I dub thee UNFORGIVEN
          Never Free
          Never Me
          So I dub thee UNFORGIVEN

    3. Obviously, if Whitman’s doctor hadn’t been listening to rock music, he never would have written that prescription. And Whitman hadn’t had the medication, he wouldn’t have shot his friend. It’s a diabolical chain reaction.

      As for Schaap, I still don’t understand how prostatitis was supposed to have made him unable to resist having sex with a teenaged girl. It doesn’t have that effect on most men. Quite the opposite, in fact.

      1. Schaap cannot be counted among the faithful. He is a distorted pervert who’s heart is as dark as the darkest of nights.

        I wish he would just go away, along with his memory.

        1. That actually describes several Fundy leaders we were previously told were “great men of the faith”.

          I remember when Bob Gray (FL)’s picture was placed in our church’s Hall of Fame. I bet his picture was quietly removed (kinda like those midnight U-Hauls – under the cover of darkness) … although my former Fundy pastor still boasts of the fake (honorary) doctorate given to him by Gray.

  32. Hello, all…

    I’m back. I gave up this site, Facebook and a few others for Lent. Was a long (but productive 40 days). Since I can’t contribute anything to the discussion that hasn’t been said, let me simply contribute my favorite version of my favorite jam.

    Peace,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSWfgpfN3qU

  33. This Danny Castle tirade is nothing more than Danny Castle trying to make a buck at the expense of the unfortunate victims of the school shootings.

  36. I live in Toronto, the most diverse city in the world and little or no violence, and not a Christian radio station to be found (no guns either). Based on his logic, one could deduce that Christian music that causes violence.

    1. Yeah…but you have the Basket Weave. That’s crazy. (That has nothing to do with anything. A Canadian friend of mine just drove back from Toronto and posted some pictures. 😉

    2. Toronto has its own misery, and its name is poutine.

      (Notice how I didn’t even mention Rob Ford?)

  38. Fundamentalism seems to often sound like Adam and Eve in Genesis–“It was the woman you gave me who made me sin,” ” it was the snake’s fault.” If a man falls into sexual sin, it was the woman’s fault. If there is violence in our society it is rock music and video games’ fault.
    They seem to conveniently leave out the “self-control” part of the fruit of the Spirit.

  39. Whaie is thar sooo much vahlense???? Whaie it must bee thayt eeeeevil rocknroll. Tooo nayt Ima gonna preeeeech me a non sequitur sermon. Haymen????

  40. At 12:30 mark: “We wonder why our teen violence has rose (sic) like 1000%”

    First: has rose????
    Second: 1000%?????
    Third: Proof????

  41. Fundamentalism is not waging a spiritual warfare, but a cultural one. It equates godliness with a 1950s “Father Knows Best” artificial family portrait. Even then the nuclear family was doomed.

    Women had worked outside the home in WWII. They “manned” the factories, produced good products, supported the war effort and were more confident of their value and ability.

    But when most of the men in the military demobilized, men were coming back to jobs their wives had taken over. Business and industry started advertising in ways to get the women back into the home (and hopefully be happy about it). Television created “family” shows that stereotyped women into a subservient place in the home, and children who looked to their parents for wisdom and direction. Mischief always resulted in a lesson hard learned.

    The 1960s broke all that with the advent of rock and roll (well, toward the end of the 1950s). The “idealized” family model didn’t even last a decade! Suddenly there was rebellion, and rock music was to blame. Of course there couldn’t have been anything wrong with the family scenarios presented before, now could there? That children were thinking for themselves, making their own choices regardless of parental wisdom was finally being recognized, and fundamentalists were having none of it.

    Add to the upheaval the (gasp) idea that blacks should have “civil rights”! And the Soviet Union sending up Sputnik in 1957 and communism threatening our way of life! And native people in colonies the world round daring to think they should have control over their own governments instead of multinational corporations backed by the militaries of the Western powers.

    Fundamentalism has a lot to be angry at. Their dreams of perfect white, male dominance and unfettered exploitation were ruined by reality. And they still rant and rave about it instead of fixing their own perspectives and wrongdoings.

    Coming out of fundamentalism, it is easy to see that a lot needs fixing. And power needs to come out of the hands of fundamentalists.

  42. I remember that one of Frank Garlock’s major points in his diatribes about the evils of rock music was that rock music is REPETITIOUS. E-gads!

    Maybe that’s one reason why we like it so much.

Comments are closed.