330 thoughts on “Equality”

  1. When I collect 144k of these firsts, I will thumb my nose at you all. However, I will not let my right thumb know what my left thumb is doing.

  2. When did being an insensitive jerk become the answer to the “seeker sensitive” movement? THINK before you do stupid stuff like this. Good grief.

  3. …aaand finished with the video. My comment is as follows in script format.

    – *Long exhale through the nose*
    – Wow! That just happened.
    – * Slowly shakes head*

    1. I don’t think they were trying to. Now granted, given the very public expression by several Native American groups lamenting their portrayal as sport mascots, I would have to say that it is virtually impossible for anyone in this day and age not to be aware that this kind of behavior is offensive to others. More likely, they just didn’t care. “To hell with the fruit of the Spirit, just get over it!” Seems to be a fundy mantra.

    1. Good to read what a headdress is and who has the honor of wearing one – makes this display all the more lamentable

    2. I’m confused really – why would a fundy church want a Native American mascot? They consider any Native American spiritualism to be worshipping false gods, and wouldn’t “warrior” refer to a warrior-for-Jesus type of thing?
      (Waves hand) You want to go home and rethink your life

  6. Bet if they served beer at the concession stand they would get more fans.

    When the video started, it looked like there was a crucifix in front of the pulpit, then I realized it was flowers.

    Nice job Captain Obvious when reading the script.

  10. I finished the video. For that I deserve some kind of medal. That was so offensive, and stupid, and offensive.

    1. I could only manage to the point where the costumed guy made his opening statement about trying to get people excited about the game.

      1. Summary: It’s about what you’d expect. Clueless white Fundy pretending to be an Indian chief. Result: About what you’d expect.

    1. If they prayed, yes.

      Unless the other team also prayed.

      Then God’s like “Well, I can’t make both of you win, so I guess you guys are on your own.”

      1. So then the Holy Spirit is like, “Huddle up, dudes! We gotta figure out how we are going to work this out and save face! If we only answer one prayer, then the other side will think they are out of God’s perfect will!”
        “Well,” interjects God somewhat sharply. “Are they?”
        “Not the point, what I’m – Jesus, would you stop posting pictures of you tebowing on your instagram?”

        1. “I think – and this may be hard for my children to accept – but I think that I should just let whoever has the better skill at playing win.”

  13. This is totally unrelated to the post, but the website for the offending religious group doesn’t impress me.

    I don’t know how many students attend that school, but only one person is listed as a high school teacher. There aren’t many people who are qualified to teach algebra, geometry, trig, calculus, chem, bio, physics, world history, US history, geography, foreign languages, and the various aspects of English language arts. How one person can do that for four grades in a school big enough to have a basketball team is amazing.

    1. I once taught in a church school. Although certified in my subject area, I was required to teach about 2 or 3 classes a year outside of my subject area. Also, pray for this lady. I taught 7 or 8 classes a day with no planning period, had hours of prep work outside of class, served as athletic director and coached several teams, handled various administrative issues in the high school, all for less than $20000 a year in the 1990’s. Shame on them. Shame on me.

      1. ugh. I know your pain. 8 different classes. I am (state) certified to teach middle school science, high school math, and physics; which is far beyond the certifications of the typical teacher to begin with. The classes I had to teach stretched across all of those certifications as well as extending into classes such as Chemisty (which I consider myself qualified to teach, I should just go ahead and earn the state certification), Biology, world history (not even close to qualified), and others. No prep time allotted during the school day. salary well under $25K, less than 5 years ago. I am SOO glad to be out of there. But I can honestly say the worst of it all was far from the abusive employment practices, it was the spiritual bondagex1000.

      2. Did we teach at the same school?

        Fortunately I only had to teach one course outside of my certification. Unfortunately (for the students) it was chemistry, which I passed with gentleman’s C’s in college.

        I also coached three sports, one of which (soccer) I had seen played once.

    2. A school with five students is big enough to have a basketball team, hay-men?

    3. This is totally unrelated to your comment, II Lady Semp, but I am flying out to Maine for the holiday weekend to visit family, leaving Friday morning from Detroit. You could wish me a safe and enjoyable trip if you so chose.

      the Admiral

      1. Freedom from spiritual bondage: Christ came for that too. Fundies seem to overlook that, focusing instead on Christ setting us free from sin and death.

        1. OK, that comment was SUPPOSED to be a reply to Daniel.

          Admiral, have a safe flight and a good time in Maine. I’ve spent a lot of time in Maine and love it there.

        2. Thank you PW. We had a great family reunion in Maine with relatives coming in from all over the country. My Grandma recently passed at age 97 and we were burying here at the #4 Cemetery in Albion. We rest in the hope of seeing her again someday when we follow her in our own due time.

          the Admiral

  14. This is sophomoric & irreverent (if conducted during a service), but otherwise not ‘offensive’ (to me).

    1. I have tribal blood — not much, but some — and I find this skit very offensive.

      1. Same. Also, the mixing of traditions was, can I say it too often? Offensive. It was also bizarre. Those guys in suits that raced out whooping?

    2. As a Christian, I am less concerned if this is offensive to me, and more concerned that it is offensive to Native Americans. Paul exhorted us to “live at peace with all men”, and of course, he also talks about love and the fruit of the Spirit, most of which consists of putting others first. I can have any mascot I want; why choose to offend and alienate entire people groups that Jesus died for and is calling into his kingdom?

  15. Note to guy reading script: Work on improv. Also, check for a pulse in the guys behind you.

  16. Wow. Just wow. I started this clip, paused it as the chief was coming up and then read the current comments. I saw the complaints of offensive material and thought to myself, isn’t this what Florida State does or the Braves? I then watched the rest of the video and like Miriam wished I didn’t. That was horrible. The entire 1/16th cherokee in me boiled up. Seriously this was like the racist crows in dumbo . every bad stereotype and insulting image was used. I surprised they didn’t have a bottle of firewater in his hand. So my first reaction was so wrong. A team like Florida state is much classier with the Seminole they have to open their games with. This was trashy

    1. I am 1/16 Cheyenne. This was beyond stupid. I have no words to be able to express its utter cluelessness.

      If “my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge,” why aren’t they destroyed and gone already? How long do we have to put up with so much idiocy?

  17. From school website: “Graduates have been accepted at Bible colleges throughout the country, as well as universities throughout the state.”

    SMH

      1. When I was working up in Alaska, there was another guy working there who was from Massachusetts. I asked him how far he was from Harvard and his friend responded, “About a million miles, trust me!”

        2. Ben, where were you in Alaska? We might’ve met in this tiny state.

        3. Bald Jones grad,

          I was in Alaska twice, the second time in ’93 to work. After coming up from Prince Rupert, B.C. on the ferry and failing to find work in Juneau, I ended up continuing on to the Alcan and eventually travelled to the Kenai Peninsula. A group of us were hired by a fish processing company there and were flown west of the Alaska Peninsula where we worked at a site off of Bristol Bay not far from Dillingham. I learned how to sort salmon by species there. When the fish stopped running, we returned to Kenai, AK (I think) and I was able to obtain work with a different processing company. When the fish stopped running there, I got work with PWSAC, and along with maybe a couple of other guys, travelled by boat to a remote hatchery site in the Prince William Sound. Then finally, when the fish stopped running there, I travelled to a different remote site with the same company and helped them get ready for winter. When that was wrapped up, the company flew me to Anchorage in a float plane.

        4. BJg, then again, you weren’t asking for the travelogue, were you?

          First time in AK: Visited Anchorage, Fairbanks, Livengood, Manley Hot Springs, Denali National Park. What year did you move to Alaska– 1993?

      2. There’s a town in Massachusetts called Harvard. It’s a short distance from Cambridge.

        1. Not that far from Manchester either, though not the United one, but the one in NH.

          the Admiral

        2. LOL. I get a kick out of the Massachusetts town of Manchester calling itself “Manchester by the Sea”.

        4. On my way to Maine at this very moment Paul Best and will be about 30 miles or so from Belfast. As you said, unfortunately not yours.

          the Admiral

  18. I am slightly impressed at how this presentation managed to turn a stereotypical Native American into a stereotypical Catskills comedian. “Take Warrior Chief’s Squaw, please!”

    1. That clip is like a train wreck: You’re horrified, but you just can’t look away.

  20. Wigwam
    Headdress
    Totem pole
    I don’t know a whole lot about early North American cultures, but even I know these things do not actually go together.
    And the stupid dancing thrown in? Ouch! Don’t nations have particular dances with real meaning that you have to learn the steps to?
    I’d like to see a church ape our history, all mixed up with France, Canada, and Russia too because all white people are the same, amirite?

    1. The Totem is sacred to the Tlinget, Haida, and Tsimshian Natives of Alaska’s Southeast.

      If anything could drive them from the Gospel, this video could.

    2. Tepees and wampum were also referenced, but somehow the “chief” failed to warn against scalping tickets. Frankly they somehow overlooked a number of opportunities to “honor” an even greater number of American Indian nations. Then again, maybe they simply ran out of time.

    3. America’s Best & Brightest want Bama, too! (See my link above.)

      ROLL TIDE!

      P.S. BamaMan, gotta tell ya: My son (recent Bama grad) will be starting Wake Forest’s MA in Management program this July. And you know what I say to that, don’t you?

      “They call Alabama the Crimson Tide. Just call me the Deacon Blues.”

      LOL. J/K.

  22. People don’t get that mocking native dance and dress isn’t just mocking their culture; it’s mocking their religion. It would be like having a comedy night and mocking baptism and communion. Particularly since these cultures still exist and still practice these traditions. I think a lot of people still think that the red Indian (cough) is no more.

    1. Oh Great Spirit, whose voice I hear in the winds
      And whose breath gives life to everyone,
      Hear me.

      I come to you as one of your many children;
      I am weak …. I am small … I need your wisdom
      and your strength.
      Let me walk in beauty, and make my eyes ever
      behold the red and purple sunsets
      Make my hands respect the things you have made.
      And make my ears sharp so I may hear your voice.
      Make me wise, so that I may understand what you
      have taught my people and
      The lessons you have hidden in each leaf
      and each rock.

      I ask for wisdom and strength
      Not to be superior to my brothers, but to be able
      to fight my greatest enemy, myself.
      Make me ever ready to come before you with
      clean hands and a straight eye.
      So as life fades away as a fading sunset.
      My spirit may come to you without shame

      1. That is an Ojibwe prayer. I wonder if these people who mock and make it all a game even realize that there is deep reverence of the Creator and the earth in Native traditions.

        1. Native traditions are extremely humble. They consider the entire creation their teacher.
          Fundies could take a lesson from that.

      2. That’s beautiful – “The lessons you have hidden in each leaf
        and each rock.” Love that

        1. Yes, I love that part too. Isn’t it sad that we can’t see the similarities instead of mocking the differences.

      3. I think we can take that prayer and without being disrespectful we can turn it into a prayer to God, to Jesus. Because it can certainly be applied to Christians

  23. Accidentally left this as a reply so reposting here

    I’m confused really – why would a fundy church want a Native American mascot? They consider any Native American spiritualism to be worshipping false gods, and wouldn’t “warrior” refer to a warrior-for-Jesus type of thing?
    (Waves hand) You want to go home and rethink your life

  24. It’s a harmless attempt at a comedy bit, not done well.

    Not sure this is even worthy of a post.

    For the record, I am not insensitive to Native American issues since that is part of my family’s bloodline and part of my church.

    2. It’s not harmless if people are offended.

      Also, perpetuating stereotypes is not harmless. It creates cultural misconceptions and reinforces prejudices.

      This skit goes against the whole “avoid appearance of evil” thing (that fundies take out of context) because it insults every tribe found in the Americas. How is that going to win the multitudes to any deity?

    3. As I posted above, Native American dance and dress has strong religious and spiritual meaning. It would be kind of like a Native American group taking Christian belief and turning it into a comedy sketch. We tolerate that to a certain point in western society because it’s one thing to poke fun at yourself. But to appropriate someone else’s beliefs, completely disregard what they mean, and use them for
      comedy is insensitive at best.

      2. And this is even worse than what you described, imo, because white people have not exactly treated Native Americans right throughout our ~500 year history. They are a definite minority.

    4. It isn’t harmless, it’s racist and offensive.
      I could go through the “comic” routine line-by-line, but it’s simpler just to say almost every sentence is offensive.

  25. Chris Hedges’ excellent work “Days of Destruction Days of Revolt” ignited my interest in studying the mistreatment of the Native Americans by the dominant race. His excellent, but heart-rending treatise on the Pine Ridge Reservation depicts the historical systematic murder of Lakota Sioux men, women, and children, as well as the rape of the Lakota Sioux women by Custer and his ilk.

    So now I’m reading “Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee” and “Black Elk Speaks”.

    When “Christians” should be in mourning and repentance, as in this video, they engage in mockery and derision.

    1. Angie Debo wrote the definitive history of the treatment of the Indians of oklahoma. You might find her interesting. A woman historian telling the truth about the indians in the ’40’s. Tougher than boiled owl.

      1. Many folks don’t know that Custer’s wife wrote her memoirs. I found it at the local library (did you know the library has WHOLE SHELVES of books???). It was fascinating. Also fascinating is the several writings from the Colonial period that laments the treatment of the Native Americans.

        1. I seem to recall books that have pages made of paper, and shelves to hold them. Fascinating, but takes up a lot of room compared to a Kindle. 😉

  26. “I did not know how much had ended. When I look back now from this high hill of my old age, I can still see the butchered women and children lying heaped and scattered all along the crooked gulch as plain as when I saw them with eyes still young. And I can see that something else died there in the bloody mud, and was buried in the blizzard. A people’s dream died there. It was a beautiful dream…the nation’s hoop is broken and scattered. There is no center any longer, and the sacred tree is dead.”
    -Black Elk Speaks

  27. I guess I’m insensitive, too. I grew up where this kind of thing was common; grade school mascot was an Indian Warrior; high school mascot was an Indian; college mascot was a Warrior – all secular schools, and they all did things more or less like this.

    American Indians would tell us afterwards that the portrayal and talking wasn’t really accurate, but they weren’t angry about it; they viewed it as a time to teach those of us who were ignorant.

    Today, we see a whole raft of people ready to “take offense” at anything and everything at the drop of a hat…

    “Have a good day”

    “You SCUM! Do you think that because I am black I cannot have a “good day” unless you wish one on me! I don’t need your racism!”

    “Merry Christmas”

    “You SCUM! Are you trying to shove religion done my throat. I thought in this country we had freedom of religion; how DARE you mock Wiccans in this way!”

    Would it have been better if this church still did this promo, but just didn’t post it?

    What do you want them to do? Have a screening for the world and find out if someone might be offended by the mention of television? Or falcons? I’m offended by the assumption that everyone who doesn’t go to the game is lazy, sitting around watching TV.

    It’s just a little promo skit… good grief! If you want to get back at them, do your own, or start a blog like SFL.

    I’m sure that there is good baptistery humor, especially for the churches that practice immersion…. “Our replay booth has noticed that your left foot came up out of the water, so you weren’t fully immersed – we’ll have to do it again”

    1. Just because it’s common doesn’t mean it’s okay.

      Maybe people are ignorant of other cultures in part because of stupid stereotyping such as this.

      Just because no one protests doesn’t mean no one is offended. If you feel powerless you aren’t going to protest.

      1. I have discovered that by being a white, straight, male, Protestant Christian I well enevitably offend someone, without even trying. I think it is called Life.

        1. Paul, there is a difference between unintentionally offending and apologizing for it, and being unapologetically offensive. Offensiveness seems to be a tenent of faith to many Fundies. If I do something that is offensive, why would I not apologize and recant my statement, video, or whatever? The only reasons I can think of are that it is something that I feel strongly about, or that I like being offensive.

        2. It depends on what you feel strongly about but it can dangerous to express strong opinions about certain issues, especially if you are a christian and try to live by the standards of the bible. It is fine to keep your faith confined to a church building on Sundays, but don’t let it influence decisions that might impact anyone else. I try not to be a jerk but j have met too many people who make a full time career out of being offended.

        3. I get that. That falls into the category of something you feel strongly about, IMO. That is offense with reason behind it, not senseless offense. It is the other kind that bothers me. Having the courage of your convictions is different than offending because you are a jerk. Does that make sense? The whole racial slur thing is just being a jerk.

        4. Yes, miriam , I think we’re on the same wavelength about that:-) Somehow I find it difficult that Jesus would behave the way many christians do nowadays. Or Peter, or Paul. Maybe christians need some “Sanctified Common Sense”

        5. If it’s your strong beliefs, it’s your strong beliefs. But if you’re using your beliefs to try and impact the life of those who don’t have those same beliefs as you, then how is that not offensive? Why should you be manipulating other people’s lives?

        6. I’m not trying to force my beliefs on anybody but “no man is an island” and everybody impacts the lives of others, whether you like it or not. If someone makes a discision to attack me in the street, physically or verbally because I hold a christian belief about something (which has happened) yes, that will impact me and yes, I will find that offensive. It works both ways. I only hope the decisions I make, will influence people in a good way, but some people just don’t *want* to be influenced in any way.

    2. It probably isn’t fair to conflate strawman arguments with actual present and widespread controversy. Also, it might not be wise to assume that something must be ok because it was common at some point in the past. In the recent past we had separate water fountains for blacks, different financing and real estate laws depending on race, segregated schools, and other forms of ignorance and oppression. And those were often used as a teaching opportunity by people who did not get upset. That does not make it ok.

    3. There is a difference between poking fun at your own culture, which you understand and possess as your own and so understand what can be joked about and what really shouldn’t, and poking fun at a culture that is not your own and about which you are clearly clueless.

      1. I used to feel mildly offended when people would find out I was half-Sicilian and immediately assume I had Mafia connections.

        Now I just think it’s cute.

        Heck, I kinda wish I did have Mafia connections. A friend of a friend, who did have Mafia connections, once got us front-row seats to see Pavarotti in concert. Obviously Mafia connections come in handy!

    4. GR – Lighten up on the hyperbole there. Have you ever personally been called a scum for wishing someone a nice day or Merry Christmas? I think someone watches too much Fox News.

      2. Our nation was pretty much founded on the idea of disrespecting others. After all, we had this nice ocean between us and the rest of the world, so we could be insulting and rude and full of ourselves and no one could do anything about it.

        Here at home we’d make treaties with local people and break them just as soon as they had something we wanted. Like land. Or slaves. Or cheap labor. And we were so rude as to tell others what we believed, but wouldn’t let them tell us what they believed.

        All. The. Time. Freedom for All was only for the All who were someone–male, white, and rich. Once persecuted in the Old World we came to the New for wealth first, then religious freedom–for us, not for anyone else. It worked that way for a while, as long as there was more unsettled land to fight over. And take. The Powerful could rid themselves of the troublemakers and the troublemakers could become rich and powerful and oppress others in turn until they left for new climes.

        Until there was nowhere else to go. Then the oppressed couldn’t go somewhere else. They had to fight for their own rights to live, work, faith and respect. We who had won those rights however hard and dear wouldn’t give them up, because in our mind freedom to be respected didn’t mean we had to return that respect. The scum should know their place, haymen? God ordained it this way. It is only moral to do it my way. For me to have to respect others? Well there is something wrong about that.

        After all, the Scriptures telling us to each esteem others better than ourselves doesn’t mean other faiths, cultures, peoples, ideas, rights, gender, sexuality, loves, opportunities, economic freedoms or civil rights. Read the Fine Print where it gives Evangelical Protestant Republican Straight White Men all the privileges. ALL of THEM!

        If you read your history with any kind of unbiased eye, the pattern becomes clear in a heartbeat. We think we’re free if we can do what we want to others, take for ourselves what we like, and be able to keep others from having the same privileges.

        It is how we conduct foreign policy. It is how we handle economic policies. Raise the minimum wage? Share the wealth with those who work? Make sure everyone has a job and dignity and respect? What are you, some kind of Socialist? I am glad others paid their fair share of taxes to build schools and roads, but my taxes are too high!

        And someone comes along and doesn’t want us to tell them they are going to hell, so we are offended. We aren’t allowed to torment others in the flames anymore! We have lost our freedom! Or someone tells us that a sacred headdress is not to be made fun of, and we become bitter.

        The March of Freedom has always been about gaining respect, power, and opportunities for ourselves while denying them to the ones we like to pick on! As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, World without end. Amen. Amen.

        Sigh. Didn’t this turn into a rant! Sorry.

        1. One of my favourite quotes. It helps me when I remember the things I did and said in the name of the Fundy God. ‘I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better.’ Maya Angelou
          I think we can apply it to history, too.

        2. That is a great quote, miriam. I think it particularly applies to the Evangelical Ulster Protestant subculture which was a part of my upbringing. All of the stuff rtgmath ranted about could have applied to Ulster Protestantism. I can see that now but a lot of people dont. Of if the do see it they will close their eyes.

        3. It’s that whole black and white Fundy thing, isn’t it. No greys, greys are for liberal whiners who are afraid to stand up for the truth. Where is the line between standing up for something and standing against everything else, though? That has always been a problem for me. I was an unsuccessful Fundy because I was uncomfortable insisting that I was right all the time. The rigid stance of Fundyism means that people break under the pressure of it, if there is the least crack.

        4. I am glad others paid their fair share of taxes to build schools and roads, but my taxes are too high!

          Damn. That sums it up.

  29. Comments are disabled on YouTube – wonder if they got negative ones and didn’t want to deal with them.

    1. Disabling comments: the hi-tech way of sticking your fingers in your ears and going “la-la-laaa…”

  30. In the fundy church I used to attend, a fellow there is a Ute Indian Chief. He has the traditional long hair, and when he was called on to pray he would pray in his native language, and finish the prayer in English with something along the lines of in the name of the Great Spirit. When a new preacher came in, his praying changed to English and no reference to Great Spirit, so I assume the new preacher talked to him about it, but not the long hair even though he preached against long hair on occasion.

    1. One of the most fascinating characters I have ever met was a Native American (or First Nations, as he perferefd to be known) who came over to Portadown in Northern Ireland to take a series of meetings. He was a mixture of Creek, Cherokee and Choctaw, I think. In the “White Man’s World” he was known as Lawrence Brown, but his First Nations name was Grizzly Bear Tallwalker, which HAS to be the coolest name ever 🙂 :-). As well as speaking he sang in First Nations style and even danced! I admit I was a bit unsure about going to hear him, as I was kind of expecting a mixture of “Christianity” and “Pagan Indian” beliefs, but Grizz turned out to be 100% Evangelical Christian in every way.

      1. I think there may have been a bit of Irish in Grizz’s heritage too, but he certainly identified very strongly as a member of the First Nations. It was fascinating listening to him sing in a style that was very different from what I would have been used to, and sensing the glory that it gave to God, and seeing him dance too. What he spoke was 100℅ Gospel.

      2. I grew my hair long in 1992 when I got out of the USN because of an old native American guy I saw in Kansas City who had a beautiful white ponytail.

        the Admiral

  31. I had to quit watching the video halfway through (So absurdly offensive) but thank goodness I read the comments today. I love reading about Native American history and all the names and book titles mentioned here have significantly expanded my Amazon wish list. Way to go SFL, fighting hurtful stereotypes with knowledge and education!

  32. The person playing the role of the warrior chief had all of his lines memorized while the idiot at the podium was reading his part from a script. Is there a hidden message there? Native Americans actually smarter than dumbass white guys?

  34. My grandfather was a full-blooded Native American. I say that for interpretation purposes.
    1. If you’re looking for something to be offended by, you’ll find it. Anywhere.
    2. Should the Atlanta Braves fans stop doing the tomahawk chant and motion?
    3. Mascots are mascots. Usually they are revered by the fans. It is also usual to have a comical version; however, no one chose a mascot because they had no respect for them.
    4. Vikings, Braves, Warriors, Seminoles, all were amazing warriors and that is the only reason they are chosen for team mascots.
    5. Personally, I think the articulation was walking that thin line between comical and disrespectful. But if you regularly watch South Park, or Family Guy, or Tosh.0, or anything of the like, you cannot call this out and continue to give those shows your views.
    6. Most importantly, are we sure that this guy isn’t part Native American? Maybe a Native made him the suit. Unlikely? Yes. Possible? Absolutely. If he’s the race, though, he has every right to poke fun at his own culture.
    7. What’s the difference between what he does and Key and Peele or Chappel?
    Again, if you want to be offended, you can find something to offend you anywhere.

    1. Greg, if he has part or whole Native American, then double shame on him because he ought to know better. If you had done any real looking into your heritage with any sort of attempt to gain value from it, you’d know what you said isn’t correct.

      But that’s fine. People have every right to be insensitive, boorish, ignorant and disrespectful to others, then point the fingers back and say, “I know you are but what am I?”

      But greg, you get your feelings hurt, too, don’t you? Don’t you wish people understood you better, knew how you try and respected you for who you are?

      One of the reasons the US doesn’t get respect across the world is because we refuse to give it. We are the Tea Partiers of the World and let our guns talk for us. We value life — as long as we can meddle with it and dispose of it at our convenience. We value freedom of others as long as they do what we want them to do.

      That is Fundamentalism, too. Nobody gets any respect from them, but they demand respect from others.

      Can you imagine this church’s response if some atheist group (or better yet, some Native American group) were to parody fundamentalism? They’d be up in arms in outrage.

      FYI, I don’t watch SouthPark or those other shows. Never liked them. I do watch Rachel Maddow when I get the chance. I try very much to accord respect to others, particularly those who are respectful.

      1. People parody Christians all the time. You illustrate my point exactly, if you want to be offended, you will.
        My grandfather is dead, so you’ll have to wait to talk to him. He lived in Virginia and grew tobacco, and got along fine with European Americans.
        To answer your question, yes, my feelings do get hurt every now and then, but I don’t wine about it or demand they be dragged out for apology, nor do I call them insensitive because that would mean I’m sensitive, and that’s just not how I want to be known. I’m a grown man and I don’t let words hurt me.
        There is no racism in this skit. If it was racist, they’d make him an idiot and probably paint his face red, then they’d talk about how Native Americans are inferior. Just because a people group is used as a mascot doesn’t mean the team is racist. All that means is you don’t know what the word “racist” means.

    2. You forgot one point, People who like the status quo and do not want things to change because they would have to change with them, will always find an excuse to keep on being racist and offensive.

    4. To answer #7 – Those are comedians who are paid to be funny. The people in this skit are Christians. People who are supposed to follow Christ. Because I am sure part of Jesus’ ministry was to make fun of the Egyptians or some other group of people that were slaughtered wholesale.

      I think I would rather hear from your Native American grandfather about this than you.

      1. He did call a Gentile woman a dog. Mark 7:27. Many scholars believe He is making a joke.

        1. Hmmm. They do so without any reason at all, which in my mind calls into question their scholarship.

          The Gentiles in Israel keenly felt their inferior status. They were mocked and reviled and shunned by “good” Jews. No good Jew would eat with them. They would pass by them on the other side of the road. They called them horrid names.

          Would Jesus “joke” about such a thing? No, I think he was serious. But it does seem that the woman’s response of faith even in the face of Jesus’ rejection marked a turning point in his ministry. No longer was he only going to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. After that, he had other sheep that would be added to the flock.

      2. Christians can be humorous and use cultural humor to do so. If we can’t laugh at ourselves or our history, what can we laugh at?

        1. I actually heard a (fundy-type) preacher male the statement “Jesus wept. It says so in the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus ever laughed.” In answer to that,I’ve been though all four Gospels, and nowhere does it say that Jesus ever went to the toilet…..

        3. I think most fundies would laugh if someone did this kind of parody of them.

          the Admiral

        5. I am kind of curious as to why someone would defend their ‘right’ to humour that other people find offensive. Doesn’t the Bible say, if your hand causes you to offend cut it off? How about the verse that talks about eating no meat if it makes your brother to stumble? The one that says there in no longer any difference between Jew and Gentile, all are one in Christ. I find it strange that so many Fundies will fight so hard to protect something that is, after all, not important in any basic way, to their faith.

  35. I actually thought the “Warrior Chief” had some good lines. Yes, it was hokey, but most things IFB are.
    To those who are offended or disgusted by this, I have a question: Were you equally offended at Johnny Depp’s portrayal of Tonto in the movie The Lone Ranger? I frankly don’t see the difference between this and that, except one is done by those we disagree with. I am a firm believer in being consistent on such matters. Just my two-cents (and I probably should get a penny back).

    1. I don’t like Johnny Depp in anything. I don’t like cowboy-and-Indian movies. I don’t care for Westerns. Johnny Depp isn’t in this skit, so I don’t know why you’re bringing him into the conversation.

      1. I’m assuming based on your comment, Lady Semp that you did not see the movie. That being the case, I can see your confusion. Basically, every caricature of Indians was pulled out in the movie. Because of your list of what you don’t like, you probably will not see the point I was making.
        Just curious, what do you like?

        1. The caricature of Indians, whether by Johnny Depp or a fundamentalist, is something I dislike. I just didn’t understand why you brought it up since Depp’s movie wasn’t what was featured in Darrell’s clip.

          Not mentioning other repulsive caricatures doesn’t mean we don’t like them. It might mean that we are unaware of or have forgotten them, or that there’s not enough time or bandwidth to discuss every instance we encounter. In my case I didn’t know he’d even starred in a Western. Since I don’t like Depp I don’t track his career and I don’t watch his movies.

        1. Rob, I’m really good at missing pop culture stuff. As in, I should get a medal.

    2. Many years ago, I knew someone who was a Lone Arranger. He would lend money, but if you didn’t pay it back, plus interest, within a certain time he came down on you hard and heavy…..

    3. Lone Ranger and Tonto surrounded by Indians.
      Lone Ranger to Tonto: “Looks like this is the end for us.”
      Tonto to Lone Ranger: “What you mean us white man.”

    1. Yep. Central Baptist’s knowledge of Native American culture is about on a par with Mr. Drysdale’s.

      1. I heard that “tonto” is derived from the Spanish word for “stupid” or “idiot” or “crazy” …..

  37. Would people find humour in the children, or grand children of Nazis doing a skit about Jewish people on the way to the gas chambers? The First Nations peoples of North American underwent genocide. The last federally run residential school for their children closed in 1996 in New Brunswick. That is not very long ago. They were hunted, they were cheated, they were starved, had their land stolen, indoctrinated at gunpoint, had their children stolen from them, their languages outlawed and now we laugh at them? Lets have some respect. I don’t care if anyone “knows an Indian” who thinks this is funny. It isn’t. It is time we all grew up and realized the good old days were not so good. Not unless you were white and rich and preferably male. I had ancestors on both sides of this as do many, many people who have been in North America for any number of generations. That isn’t really pertinent. What matters here is respect.

    2. No one is denying the history of or gravity of the atrocities committed on the Native American people.
      However, this guy is a mascot pumping up his school for a ball game. That is all he is doing. Y’all need to grow a sense of humor. Get mad at television shows and movies. Johnny Depp and his tribe in the Lone Ranger did a whole lot worse than this guy. The difference is, the movie meant to. This guy only meant to rally his school.

      1. This isn’t humour. Aside from it’s offensiveness, it is stupid. I know lots of Fundies, am related to far too many of them, who tell people who don’t want to be offensive that they need a sense of humour. Nope. Humour doesn’t have to hurt. Cleverness is funny. Lots of things are funny. Racism is not. As for sports and mascots. They all need to be dragged into the new century.

      2. If you have to resort to mocking someone in order to excite people about a basketball game, you’re doing something wrong.

    3. …their soldiers who used a Native language pattern to send coded messages that couldn’t be broken and probably saved the Allied war effort during WWII, weren’t even recognized or rewarded appropriately for their loyalty, their sacrifice, their wildly intelligent service or their valor.

      1. …so move this reply up to be right under MiriamD’s list of atrocities committed against First Nations people here in North America.

    4. I don’t think anyone, even fundies, finds gas chamber skits funny. Yet somehow Monty Python managed to insert humor into a crucifixion skit in The Life of Brian. I guess I didn’t quite see the gallows humor that some people with thinner skin were offended by. I thought the skit was neither funny, nor particularly offensive. I would think churches would think twice before doing schlock like this, in light of the potential for negative publicity from the PC police.

      the Admiral

      1. Monty Python was not loved by fundamentalists. His “Life of Bryan” was much condemned from the pulpits at the time. So the fact that he had such a sketch — and that fundamentalists condemned it — says only that fundies are themselves thin skinned, easily offended.

        Is there any evidence that Monty Python has made its way into acceptability among fundies? I don’t think so. The occasional (guilty) watching by some fundies does not equate to pulpit approval.

        1. I love Monty Python. I did not finish “Life of Bryan”. I appreciate much mocking and sarcastic humor. But some things are actually off-limits. Caricatures of Mohammed, for example. Mock beatings of young women.

          I agree that if you belong to a culture, you may poke fun at it. If you don’t, you should tread lightly.

          Perhaps one day we will all mature to the point we don’t take offense at these moronic and juvenile attempts at humor, just as we do not take offense at a toddler’s remark about how fat we are. That can only happen when we recognize that those portraying this “humor” are as immature as a toddler.

        2. No fundy has seen Life of Brian, but the Holy Grail is LOVED by so many fundy kids/college students. Too much so, in fact. It’s one of just a handful of “approved” films, so I heard it endlessly quoted. Really ruined the movie for me for quite some time.

  38. It is always interesting to hear justification for this type of stereotypical depiction of the races–this was acceptable before and no one was offended–> perhaps anyone who was offended didn’t feel they had the power or freedom to voice their offense. Society changes and when a group of people finds their voice and are either free enough or desperate enough to request change–offenses are found where they were not found before.

  39. For me, it doesn’t matter if the Native Americans are offended by this type of caricature and our mascots. I am offended.
    I am offended by these caricatures because they do not lift up Native Americans to be celebrated (except when it is my sports team and they win 😉 )
    I am offended because when the only portrayal that a race or gender that the youth of that culture sees is demeaning or comical–we are saying they have no value other than for entertaining us. We keep them oppressed.
    This portrayal and the sports mascots are wrong and offensive because they limit our imaginations of what Native Americans have to offer us and limit the imaginations of Native American youths for what they have to offer the larger culture.

    1. What about Viking mascots? Does that limit Scandinavian Youths’ imaginations of what they have to offer?

      1. I think you miss the point. When one is in the majority (which European descendants have been for the past 200 years in this nation) how we the majority are portrayed doesn’t have the same affect. There has up to 6 years ago, been a white man in the highest position. To mock or to use a white person as a mascot does not have the same affect since a white man has always pretty much ran things.
        But for a minority group, when the predominant culture uses you as a sidekick, mascot or the butt of jokes–it tells you you have no place in that culture.

        1. Leanne, I almost always agree with most of what you say here. But I have to disagree that this is the “only portrayal.” American media and education has been intentionally portraying native Americans positively for at least a couple of decades now. This isn’t the 80’s anymore, this is 2015.

          the Admiral

        2. The Admiral–
          I am sorry if my comments made it sound like there are no good depictions of Native Americans. But as you pointed out that is recent history. To undo the century or so of poor depiction–it is going to take a lot more work than just a few decades of better portrayals.
          I would also argue–the fact that we still have mascots and videos of this–we are still not where we need to be. We as a society still view Native Americans in a demeaning way–though we are making progress–we can do better.

    2. Yet, Leanne, you have no problem demeaning fundies and posting on a sight that does the same thing you are “offended” by!

      2. how did I demean fundies? There is a difference between stating that a group has damaging theology/practices and demeaning a group. It seems to me that things hit too close to home for you and you cannot tell the difference because of the pain.
        I was there at one point until I realized that my pain was coming from the truth that I was in an abusive system with abusive theology. Pray you find peace.

  40. To answer the above question about Johnny Depp in the Long Ranger movie…all I had to do was look at a picture of him in costume to make up my mind that I was NEVER going to watch that movie.

    The Sports Mascots…I live in the ‘general’ Washington D.C. area and I am a fan of the Baltimore Ravens. That is all I am going to say about that.

    2. Yes. Darrell, could you possibly set up some kind of edit function? I for one course certainly use it.

        2. So does his even-more-evil twin, Otto Korekt.

          I have a spelling checker
          I disk covered four my PC.
          It plane Lee Marx four my revue
          Miss steaks eye can knot sea…..

        3. My sister is getting married in a few days. Her fiancé sent her a text suggesting they move the wedding ahead a few hours. It threw her into a tizzy. His phone had auto corrected from “weeding.” He was coming to help in the garden and thought he should wait till the dew was gone. Lol.

        5. My computer used to autocorrect “Nicene Creed” to “Niceness Creed.” I figured the programmer was a Methodist. 😀

        6. Ha! If Methodists had named the Nicene Creed, it might, indeed, be called the Niceness Creed.

        7. Hey! Don’t knock the Methodists! I grew up Methodist! Now I’m offended! 😉

        9. There is a big difference between a thick skin and a thick skull. Too many Christians have both.

        1. Every time I say fundies, my phone says fun dies. I have a smart phone.

          the Admiral

        2. Hmm…. It could be argued that Jesus was not always “nice” to the Pharisees. Or to the crooks in the Temple Courts. The word “Nice”can, like so many words, be interpreted in different ways. Christians ate called to be Salt and Light. Our society, and many Christians, would prefer us to be Sugar.

  41. Any symbol or label you use will eventually become offensive to someone. Society evolves and changes. Attitudes evolve and change. Language evolves and changes. But Fundies do not believe in Evolution and so they never change.

    1. Is that why they use the KJV? They do not believe language has evolved and changed since 1611?

    2. The *nature* of Idolatry has not changed. Just the objects of it. KKVonlyism is idolatry. It make the Word of God (s physical book) the same as God Himself.
      (Uh-oh, here come the KJV trolls….)

  42. The problem with the crusade against team names and mascots is that it will probably wind up as a seemingly half-rendered success. Big name professional and NCAA Division One teams that are firmly established institutions will retain their names. Community colleges and regional state universities have their mascots changed, while the big name teams become the dozen or so exceptions to the rule. Which will embolden a few other small yet proud schools to not change.

    It’s sort of like Tipper Gore’s censorship campaign, during the eighties. She didn’t go after Madonna or Prince, because major record labels have lawyers, and big name acts have many fans. She targeted some punk band, who didn’t get much MTV air play, called The Dead Kennedys, over interior record album art.

    1. It is an idea whose time has come, and despite the resistance, I think the days of using Native Americans as mascots are numbered.

      It will take time. But it will happen.

      1. Yep, just like the “n” word is no longer acceptable. As has been said before we change, thank God, we change.

        1. I just reminded our plant manager today that we need to reiterate our company policy against ALL use of the n word. The two black guys in the restroom talking after work saying n””*as this and n****as that have obviously forgotten the ban.

          the Admiral

        2. I agree that it isn’t appropriate. However, many in the black community have adopted the word as a kind of bitter retaliation against its use by whites. They figure if they control it and it’s use, then white use will lose some of its power.

          I don’t agree with their argument. But I see their point. Words can wound.

          No one suggests that all minority behavior is good while all majority behavior is bad. Far from it. But I do suggest that the majority should refrain from actions and attitudes that rob minorities of power, voice or dignity.

          That would be a Christian attitude.

  43. Some of you need to let your skin get a little thicker! There are many things to get offended at in this life, but not this! It was meant all in good fun. As a matter of fact, some of you are acting as hypocritical as the IFB. Many of you that are so “outraged” and “offended” have been doing the same thing to IFB people on here for years! Then when a “fundy” gets on here and complains, you all basically tell them to deal with it! I don’t know this church or the man that played the Indian. This is not a defense of them as much as an amazement at your blind hypocrisy! Read Darrell’s description of this site: “a SILLY blog.” Explain to me why thats ok, but this church’s silliness is wrong!

    1. Fundyism is a cancer. Races are races. Pretty much. “meant in good fun” “get your skin thicker” just excuses for “I will be racist if I wanna be.”

      1. Or “I will be a stupid asshole if i wanna be”
        I know. I used to be one. It did not bring any glory to God of to the name of Jesus. But will God’s help I vam change. I still have a long way to go. The first step to dealing with a problem is to admit that there *is* a problem.

      2. As I have said before there is a big difference between having a thick skin and a thick skull.

    2. Yes, you are “Still a Fundy.” And it shows.

      That is NOT a good thing.

      I take it that you were always the Bully, not the person who was being bullied? And you likely told your victims that they needed their skin to be thicker, that your picking on them was “all in good fun.” Sounds about how I would characterize other people who are still fundies.

      Yes, Still a Fundy, you don’t want to change. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” means nothing? “Be ye kind, tenderhearted” should actually read, “Be brash, calloused, and have a thick skin so you can and give abuse?” Yes, you are a Fundy.

      The Good News of God in Jesus Christ is that He did not just get a thicker skin, but bore your griefs and carried your sorrows. Wow. What a concept!

      To be sure, I am not perfect. But in your world, I have no right to speak or to critique bad behavior because I am not what I ought to be. So you have the right to critique my behavior, why? Hypocrites all around?

      It wasn’t harmless. A Native American seeing that would NOT see the Gospel as relevant to him because he wouldn’t want to serve a Jesus Who laughs at him.

      I may be sorry that I am pointing out your name so much, Still a Fundy. Later. Not right now. Right now, you have made the point. The Gospel is not for those you mock. You have no concern for their souls. Fundamentalism should be castigated for what it does to people in the name of God. Its sins should be pointed out, its motivations exposed, its lies manifested and its demonic nature demonstrated. It has no heart.

      I do hope some day you will realize the horrors of the system you claim as your own. Then you won’t make such false comparisons any more.

      1. Wow. You are about like Jobs three friends. Full of accusations and no proof to back any of it up. I was not and am not a bully. I was and have been picked on all my life. You pretty much said I ignore the Bible, which I do not, and that I do not care for souls, which is a lie. I love people, ALL people. Spent much of my life as a missionary to Third World Countries and gave up most of my health and possessions to do so. You do not know me or my heart. I did not attack you personally but the post on here that were hypocritical in my viewpoint. I think you are the bully. You are the heartless one. You are the uninformed one. Fundamentalism and every other form of religion that does wrong should be pointed out. You assumed (you know what that means) that I agree with all fundamentalism and that I must be a bad person for being one. Talk about racist, judgmental, and stereotyping! All I can say is WOW.

        1. Still a Fundy, YOU “Spent much of my life as a missionary to Third World Countries and gave up most of my health and possessions to do so”?

          Good grief. And you tell us to have a thicker skin regarding cultural mockery? What kind of ministry did you have? Or did none of the lessons of dealing with people stick with you?

          I have known a lot of missionaries. None, I emphasize, NONE were comfortable with making fun of other cultures. Many of them were quick to point out how stereotypes and such nonsense hinder the gospel.

          So pardon me, please. I am not quite sure I can believe you. Your advice is so atypical of the many good missionaries I have known in my fundy days.

          So, you weren’t a bully? You were picked on? Where is the sensitivity that comes from being victimized that way? Where is the nausea, the disgust that comes from seeing others made into mere entertainment?

          I don’t care that Darrell’s site has “silly” and “entertainment” as part of its description. For me, purging fundamentalism is a deadly serious business. The damage it has done to lives is beyond measure. The damage it has done to my life is enormous.

          I am not your judge, true enough. Nor would I want to be.

          Now I may not know your heart, but I read your words sure enough. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh, right? And your fingers type the fullness of your heart, as do mine. And the abundance of your heart does not get it. You are concerned with the precious feelings of fundies, who are being justly criticized for their evil deeds. You consider that more important than the feelings of those they hurt, mock, turn into their mascots, cultures they denigrate.

          If that is the attitude you had as a missionary, you cannot have had any lasting impact for good. Paul’s sermon on Mars’ Hill is an exemplar of cultural sensitivity. He did not make fun of anything.

          I know I can be wrong. So I will offer an apology. Yes, I presumed to judge you from your words, not knowing the man behind them. Still, your words speak about you things you may wish to understand better. If they do not reflect who you are, you need to change them.

          By your words you will be justified. And by your words you will be condemned. Thus says the Scripture.

        2. The thing is, we (or our families) CHOSE to be fundamentalists. This blog is for those of us emerging from its harmful effects. What we mock, we were.

          Other cultures, races, and nations did not choose to be so. They cannot leave their culture or race. We do not have the right to mock them.

          PS Saying you were a missionary in a third-world country for nothing to prove your credentials. Missionaries can be among the most cruel, racist people, even when they love the people they are serving.

  44. So, Its not racist for you to laugh at, malign, criticize, and make fun of a group of people you do not agree with, but it is racist to put on a skit using an Indian costume and humor? Your as blind and deceived as the people you say have “cancer” The post on here talk about how we should be non offensive and compassionate and not insensitive to others feelings and yet you are on a sight that is insensitive, non-compassionate, and offensive to a group of people. Its not ok to do it to Indians because you like them, but ok to trash Fundyism because you do not like it! Surely, you can see your own bias, hypocrisy, and blindness. If you can’t then you are as bad off as the people you call “cancerous.”

    1. There is a big difference between being racist and commenting on a system that destroys families and relationships. People here, myself included, have been hurt badly by the Fundy system. I don’t know if you are honestly saying you don’t see the difference or not. I find it hard to believe that anyone, in 2015, can’t. I despise hurtful, controlling, lying, cheating people who do all of the above in the name of religion. Not all people in Fundy churches are like that, I know. It is the ones who are that I am totally and unapologetically insensitive too. People in Fundy churches don’t have cancer, sadly, the cancer has them. There is a big difference. I know that many, if not all of those people would be completely different out of the influence of those churches. There are plenty of us here who are.

      1. I agree with you MiriamD. I find it’s a sort of chicken vs. egg thing. Do fundy churches make idiots of people or do idiotic people just gravitate to dysfunctional fundy churches? I don’t feel the need to ponder that question for any length of time because both possibilities are probably true. Just thankful to be away from it, and thankful for a sane understanding of the gospel.

    2. Still-a-fundy, i have said this before, elsewhere on this blog, but a lot of people here have been spiritually ass-raped, by the system you seem happy to support. I haven’t, but that don’t me I should ignore the pain of those who have.
      Would a victim of rape be wrong to malign the person who assaulted him/her or should he/she just “forgive and get on with their life”? I’m sure any person who commits rape has his good points, lots of them, but they tend to be outweighed by what he did, at least in the eyes of the victim. Do you understand what I am trying to say?

      1. Paul, I am not denying the need to get help when you have been done wrong by anyone. Yes, many people in fundy churches have been treated horribly and there is no excuse in abuse of any kind! With that being said, a lot of what goes on here is not therapeutic, its entertainment, hence my comments about this video. Many on here make fun, stereotype and criticize fundies in general and are doing nothing different than what this church did in their skit. Thats my point.

        1. I am a never-fundy, but I think Still A Fundy has a point. I love this site, but I do think that sometimes there is sort of a tag-team thing that goes on that humiliates and marginalizes anyone who expresses a POV different from the party line hereabouts. I feel this even when I agree with the party line. I totally understand that people have been so traumatized by their fundy experiences that they need to go to the opposite pole. But sometimes I think there is a tendency to gang up on even sympathetic folks who may dare to disagree on one or two particulars. This strikes me as, well, kind of fundy. 😉

          Please don’t jump all over me. I am an outsider without a fundy bone in my body. I agree with 99% of what y’all say. But, believe it or not, it is possible to be a thinking, rational non-fundy without subscribing to every sentiment expressed hereabouts. (Or even without being a liberal Democrat. But that’s a topic for another day.)

        2. Btw, I am not saying I agree with everything Still A Fundy says. I’m just defending his right to say it — without being mocked, dismissed, or humiliated. I have this thing about fairness.

          A Catholic defending a fundy!! Glory be! Lol. Roll Tide!

        3. Of course Still a Fundy has a “right” to say what he has said. Having rights doesn’t make one right.

          Fundies have a “right” to be boorish and stupid and abusive. They have a right to go to jail when they break the law. They have a right to believe what they want to believe and to reap the consequences of that belief.

          One doesn’t have the “right” to do or say something without consequences. One could hope they won’t happen, but one must accept them when they do. Drive over the speed limit and you run a positive risk of getting a ticket and a fine.

          So yes, Still a Fundy has a right to disagree. We have a right to respond to that disagreement. He has a right to say what he wants, and in so doing accepts the obligation of being judged by what he says.

          It is all very simple. No complications. Nobody’s rights are being violated on this group.

          And by the way, there is no “Party Line.” Try as I might to find a Little Red Book for SFL, it does not exist. What does exist are people, some who have been hurt desperately by fundamentalism in a host of ways. Darrell does us good by giving us room to speak.

          But does he have a right to say something without us being allowed to respond negatively to what he has to say? Of course not. That kind of “rights” are one-way only. And as fundies love to say, “what you sow, you will reap!”

          In case you have forgotten, Still a Fundy expressed the idea that we were all wrong for criticizing fundamentalist nonsense and hurtfulness. They should be allowed to be culturally insensitive and we should have a thicker skin. Of course, fundamentalist sites flay us to the bone. They consign non-fundies to the fires of hell. Many of them protect sexual molesters. They worship a Book. They tell lies.

          But they can’t stand to receive a little bit of what they dish out? Pardon me? I just can’t see his argument. And certainly not if he has been and is going to be a missionary.

        4. Ohhh man, it kills me to agree with a hellbound Catholic, but SFL DOES have a party line.

          the Admiral

        5. Still a Fundy–
          You have told us that we need to grow a thicker skin, simply because many here find this skit to be insensitive to a group of people. I find the skit offensive but I don’t take it personally. There is a difference. I can point out the abusiveness of a system and not have to take it personally.
          What I hear in your comments is the opposite. You seem to be taking this thread quite personally. Perhaps that stems from something inside you, affecting you where you cannot separate yourself from the system of which you are a part. I do not understand why you are caring that many of us here find this skit to be offensive. Who the hell cares? Does it matter? Do our opinions really affect you?

    3. No, it isn’t racist. Please use your dictionary app.
      Racism, sexism, and able-ism are wrong because people cannot choose what race, sex, or ability they are.
      But if I choose to be a Republican or a fundamentalist or a tree hugger, I can expect to receive some mockery for my choices. They are, after all, choices.
      (BTW, before you get all judgey about my defense of people trapped in Islam, you need to know that they also did not have a choice originally. And if they choose to leave, it can mean death.)

    4. So, Its not racist for you to laugh at, malign, criticize, and make fun of a group of people you do not agree with, but it is racist to put on a skit using an Indian costume and humor?

      YES! How do you not see this?? The former can describe any group, the latter SPECIFICALLY describes a RACE.

      Are you this blind??

  45. And everything the Indians did was right and good? There were no hurtful, controlling, lying, cheating Indians? Yet, you stand up for them as a whole but criticize all people in fundy churches as having a cancer? How does your comment, “I know that many, if not all of those people would be completely different out of the influence of those churches,” even make sense? The same thing could be said for the Indians or any culture. You will not face the fact that your are no different in your attitudes and actions on this sight than the very ones your are vilifying.

    1. No-one ever said anything of the sort. If you want a debate, fine but please get your facts straight.

      2. Still-a-fundy, is having a soundproof head a requisite to being a fundamentalost? You obviously have heard anything anyone has said. That sums up the problem many people now have with fundamentalism as a religious system.

        1. Paul, I have heard what has been said. I don’t think you all are listening. Many on here are up in arms about a skit that used humor and stereotypes about Indians. Yet, those same people have not even considered they do the same thing with fundies all the time on here and have no problem with it.

        2. Maybe there is a kind of Poetic Justice to that . Fundamentalists are finally being treated the way they have been very quick to treat those who are not like them. Yep, I do have a certain degree of belief in Poetic Justice.

    2. Also a culture and a church are two different things. How do you get out of your race?

      1. Again, my point. Your race is who you are. It defines you. For many people, not just fundies, their religion and church is who they are. It defines them. To criticize their faith is to attack them, same thing you feel towards the video of the Indians.

        2. “…To criticize their faith is to attack them…”
          That has been my experience. When I left Fundyville I lost most of my friends and my still fundy family disowned me at one point. I was told multiple times by those people exactly what you wrote, Still Fundy. That by rejecting their faith I rejected them.

          That said, I agree with Miriam. The whole idea of “you attack this group that I like, therefore you attack me” is definitely BS. I haven’t found anyone outside of Fundyville who feels that way.

        3. MyKneesareshowing. I am sorry you got treated that way. I did too. I left the Church of Christ and was kicked out of my home and completely abandoned by my family. Its not just fundies that feel that when you attack them you attack their faith. Catholics excommunicate. Church of Christ kick you out. Amish turn you out. Mormons as well. A pentecostal church we went to said we were demon possessed for leaving. Leave Islam and you will be beheaded. Its not just fundies, but most feel that way.

        5. Miriam, Catholics do not formally “excommunicate” everyone who leaves the Catholic Church. We couldn’t micromanage 1.4 billion people even if we wanted to. 😉

        7. faith and religion are a choice. They are not on the same level as race. While it is true we are born into a particular faith or non-faith based on our parents’ faith, we have a choice we all make about following or not following. One can choose to stay Christian or to become a member of a different faith. One cannot choose to stop being African American and become Asian.

    3. Getting out and being different not only makes sense, it makes life wonderful! I recommend it.

        2. The Landover site is a parody, but it look me a while to work that out, since so many fundies come across as really bad caricatures of themselves in real life, and it is sometimes difficult to separate their reality from parody or satire……

    5. Of course the Indians didn’t do everything right. They didn’t have to kill white people back after white people killed them first. They didn’t have to burn villages after white people gave them blankets deliberately infected with smallpox. They didn’t have to resist the theft of their lands, the destruction of their way of life.

      Then again, white people didn’t have to treat them the way they did, either.

      Indians didn’t steal white men’s property. They didn’t tell white people they were going to hell for not believing the way they believed. They didn’t enslave white people and put them on reservations. They didn’t starve the white people.

      But they did respond to the injustices done to them. And Injustice won. Are you happy with that? Did the Indians “deserve” what happened to them? How thick a skin should the Indians have had? Oh, and how thick a skin should white people have had?

      We were talking about the denigration of a culture. We still are. And yes, I suppose I denigrate Fundy Culture. But I have a right. I lived it, was part of it, hurt people while there and was hurt by the system. I have a right to respond, don’t I? Or do all the rights belong to fundies and to nobody else?

      I’d really like to know your answer to this. I’d also like to know how your view on this informs your viewpoint as a missionary.

        1. It is possible that Still a Fundy is a Poe. But that would suppose he isn’t fundy after all and is only playing Devil’s Advocate.

          It isn’t possible to exaggerate the Fundy ability to be self-serving. It isn’t possible to exaggerate fundamentalism’s ability to cry foul when they think their right to violate other’s rights are being violated.

          So I don’t know. It is possible that we have been Poed. But I doubt it. They really are *that* clueless, that one-sided, and that unrighteous. We cannot marginalize them since they have too much advantage. All we can do is point out those facts.

  46. Exactly my point MiriamD. Not all Indians were good, yet you were offended at this video as a caricature of Indians in general, but have no problem when the same ideology is followed with fundies.

      1. I will be in China in February and I am looking forward to helping some of those in communism. I do not agree with the system, but would never vilify the people in it.

        1. Why do I feel queasy at the thought of you in China? You may think this is a personal attack but bear with me, please. You do not recognize a basic form of racism. You are going to take the gospel to those of a different race. Maybe you need sensitivity training. Maybe you don’t think you are racist, just because you don’t understand what racism is.

        2. And I guess you do understand what it is? I have many Chinese friends. Our job is not to Americanize them, but make sure they know Jesus Christ. Surely, you would not have a problem with that? I would be queasy if you did!

        3. Even those who did wrong in the name of communism? Against other people wotjin the system. People like stalin? I guess it is unfair to compare communism and Fundamentalism but lot of wrong was done in the name of Fundamentalist Christianity, especially against their own people. The same was true of every branch of Christianity
          The difference is that Fundamentalists – at least those with the real power and clout- may be less likely to admit wrongdoing and repent of it. Ask anyone who has left it, but is still Christian. Or are they just “bitter”?

        4. Paul you lost me with your train of thought on that one. Are you saying we should not get the Gospel to people like Stalin that have done bad things? I thought God was interested in saving sinners of all kinds? maybe thats not what you meant. Anyone that does wrong should repent and get right. No matter their position, creed, or color. We will all answer to God. I don’t remember calling anyone bitter??

        5. Sorry that was in reply to Still-a-Fundy
          I’m glad you don’t think that it is necessary to Americanise the Chinese or any body else in order to give them the gospel, but tjat is where you may diverge from a lot of your fellow Americans fundamentlists ….

        6. By the way, when you return from Chine could you bringe a copy of the Chinese King James Bible …… 😉

      1. Can’t speak for all fundies but I personally do not agree with Islam, but believe many people in it are good people. Obviously, because I am a Christian and see Christ as the Savior of the world and they do not see Him in that light, there is differences. I have muslim friends and treat them no different than people sitting in my own church. Again, you all stereotype but get mad when it is done by others.

        2. still-a-fundy, you personally have not called anyone “bitter” but ask anyone who has left fundamentalism or dares to critisise it, how many times they have been described as “bitter” and many of them would not be able to count high enough. It has been one of the standard Fundy responses to “traitors”

      2. A Christian fundamentalist would, no doubt, carefully distinguish between the various sectarian groupings, schools of jurisprudence, hermeneutical philosophies, and Sufi orders. Liberal groups like the Alevis or Isma’ilis would be right out, but our fundamentalist might find much to admire in the Wahhabis.

  48. Im beginning to feel we are not getting anywhere with this. I think we are all facing different directions and shouting into the wind trying to make ourselves heard, but not really hearing anyone else. I’m as guilty as anyone and I apolgise for that.

  49. As Mazola used to say, this is pure corn goodness.

    (Single tear trickles down cheek)

  50. “I will be in China in February and I am looking forward to helping some of those in communism. ”

    Don’t be surprised if those Chinese folk end up helping you.

    1. Read a book called “God’s Smuggler To China” by an Ex-US Marine known as _”Brother David” It is an amazing book. Also, according to “Operation World” there are 4 Provinces in China – Henan, Anhui, Zhejiang and Fujian – where the percentage of Christians is estimated to be between 11% and 18%. That’s a lot of Christians and considering the hostility of the authorities to Christianity I am not sure how many would be “nominal”. On most other Provinces the percrntage is much lower often very low. The percentage for the whole country of China is estimated to be just under 8%. Around 100 million.

      1. An added note- the provinces with the higher percentage s of Christians are among the most populous. Numerically that amounts to a lot of Christians, and the percentages in the provinces i mentioned are higher than most countries in Europe. How many true Born-Again Christians are there in American?

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