Standards

Blaming Alcohol for Stuff

265 Comments

**WARNING: This video clip contains illustrations of extremely graphic violence perpetrated against infants.**

I’d like to see a show of hands of who here has ever been drunk. Now, if you’re somebody who has also killed somebody with a butcher knife while drunk keep your hand up. Anybody? Anybody at all?

265 thoughts on “Blaming Alcohol for Stuff”

    1. On a lighter note, I just want to humbly remind everyone that I did not claim “first” even though I am (and proud of it).

        1. I’m guessing it’s not going to get me closer to obtaining a butt cushion, though. This is my third or fourth first.

        2. Yeah, I’ve gotten a handful but no butt cushion. I figure it’s because I too fail to scream first, lol.

  2. I didn’t watch the video because of the disclaimer. Who is this guy and how recent is the video?

    1. That’s Danny Castle. He has a history of really graphic and outrageous sermons. I have some old tapes of him from when he was the pastor of New Manna Baptist Church in Marion, NC. He’d show graphic pictures of mutilated kids, people burning alive, etc. as illustrations in order to scare people into making whatever decision he was trying to get them to make. The tapes were from the 90s, so I’m kind of curious as to how he acquired so much graphic content.

      Anyways, he was kicked out of New Manna after it became public that he had had affairs with several women in the church. He then started Shining Light Baptist Church in Morganton in 2000, so this video was made sometime since then.

      1. Since 2000?
        The sermon sounds verbatim like one that a country preacher would make in 1900.

        1. I guess they mean it when they say they believe in the “old time way” and not changing… even if the illustrations no longer relate to a modern audience.

        2. “What’d them old-tahm praichers hev thet we ain’t got?
          “Them old-time praichers believed in hail.”

          I believe in hail. Last year, it ruined my roof, and a few years before that, it made a lot of dents in my car.

        3. I’m sorry. But, is that a two hour and two minute sermon?!? Holy cow. How on earth do you get people to sit still for that long?

          Props to the dude who can pull that off. Seriously. That’s talent.

          Peace,

  3. Whenever I see the start of a video and it is from the site Bad Preachers, I know we are in for a doozy.

    After listening to this, all of which was predictable, I need a drink.

  4. Well, three separate sets of parents have killed a child after reading the Pearls’ book on child rearing. Perhaps we should start holding the Pearls accountable?

    (Also not watching because of the disclaimer.)

    1. I think we could call the Pearls “public enemy number 1” and have more credibility than this guy

  5. Like semp, I haven’t watched it due to the disclaimer. Maybe tonight when I get home from work, but I don’t need this guy’s nonsense pissing me off this early in the morning.

    Monday is bad enough without IFB histrionics…

  6. So alcohol = cussing = violence.

    I bet he made every one of these up despite claiming to know one personally.

    What I can’t comprehend is why fundies are against alcohol but also against alcoholics anonymous…

    1. Because one of the steps to alcoholics anonymous is accepting you are an alcoholic. Whereas the fundy counselling schtick starts by saying that if you’re saved then you’re a new creation, and you only THINK you’re an alcoholic.

      Heard my old pastor speak on this.

      1. The classic fundy doctrine is that there is no such thing as addiction; only sin.

        Also no mental illness; only sin.
        No different sexual orientation; only sin.
        No learning disability; only sin.

        Etc.

        1. @BG – except when an IFB mog commits it (murder, adultery, child abuse, etc.), then it becomes an “error in judgment”.

        2. Jack Schaap’s wife described the felony he confessed to as “an indiscretion.”
          You know, like wearing white shoes after Labor Day.

        3. BG,

          Your comments on addiction and mental illness both bring back memories and also strike a nerve.

          It is true that those who have substance abuse problems bear some personal responsibility. It’s also true that substance abuse and perhaps even real guilt, at least in certain cases, may be involved to some degree in mental and emotional problems. Still, when I was in extreme fundy circles it was amazing the kind of uncompassionate, judgemental, and just plain assinine statements you could hear from people who thought they knew what they were talking about.

          One example sticks out at the moment. When I was at HA”C”, an instructor said that most people who threaten suicide don’t actually do it. A family member over the years had talked about suicide. Of course, as you might expect from what the instructor said, he didn’t do anything– until the night he actually killed himself.

        4. I was raised in a liturgical mainstream church. One of my first hints that fundamentalism existed was a wall pocket somebody had taped up at the laundromat. It was full of nasty little mimeographed (get off my lawn) pamphlets that started out “ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS” and then went on to inform the reader that if they had pulled out a pamphlet expecting to find contact info for a meeting they were sinners, sinners steeped in sin and bound for hellfire, and they had to confess and be saved or they would burn, burn, burn. And then a phone number they could call to tell somebody that they were bad, bad people who sinfully wanted to stop drinking by idolatrously or Satanically or occultiscafially or something-else-thought-stopper-y attending a meeting rather than abasing themselves God in the person of a preacher.

          Bastards.

        5. Ran into this last week. A young man in our community that our families and church have invested years into was put (FINALLY) into foster care and placed with a family from our local IFB. Long story short, their “pastor” doesn’t believe in mental health issues, and it was decided that he didn’t need his prescribed anxiety meds, he needed more Jesus (young man WAS saved) and more faith. He had a melt down, and instead of taking responsibility and working him back to health, on his meds, he is now in our state’s mental health juvie. Sounds like child abuse to me.

        6. Kimberly,

          Unfortunately, a large portion of our nation still adheres to the notion that the right of parents not to provide medical care to a child for religious reasons trumps the right of that child to receive needed medical care. It’s twisted.

        7. BG,

          Jack Schaap’s wife also referred to his fellow inmates as “roommates” and bragged that he was seeing so many of these “roommates” saved, tagging on this gem: “God works in mysterious ways!”

          😯 😯

        8. “Roommates”! Ha! That’s a good one.
          Next they’ll be calling them “Jack’s fraternity brothers.”

    2. I also think they dislike that participants are told to pray to their higher power instead of the Father, Son, and Spirit of the Bible.

      1. This kind of gives me away but A.A. is a Christian organisation and I like to use and live the 12 steps in my life. I know why fundies don’t like it but it still seems rather odd considering they are also against alcohol. Nothing is good enough for fundies. But then again, this man sounded like he was reveling in these stories.

      1. Geez. And I don’t go to AA meetings like I should because I wish it were more secular! Sounds like both me and those guys need to loosen up.

    4. I have never seen any Baptist church of any flavor host an AA meeting. It may be due to the AA belief in a “higher power” that some take so loosely as to make one’s own self or conscience into the higher power.

      1. I’ve seen plenty of American Baptist churches hold AA meetings, as well as other self-help anonymous groups.

        1. Huh. Around here American Baptists do not host AA meetings. Every other mainline denomination besides the American and Southern Baptists do. One does have a Reformers Unanimous.

      4. Our old SBC church definitely sponsored meetings. Never had any guff about the Godlessness of AA.

  7. As a nurse, let me just mention that your eyes don’t turn green from DTs. That dog just don’t hunt, as this clearly southern preacher would say.

    On another medical note, most people don’t become cocaine or meth addicts from first use.

    2. Also, delirium tremens is caused by WITHDRAWAL from heavy alcohol use. If the man was in a hospital, doctors could have treated it by giving him a measured amount of alcohol or another sedative drug.

  8. Anyone else feel like he was more mad at the teenage boy from story two and the wife from story three for shooting their drunk abusers than he was at the drunk men?
    Also, why are all these drunks MEN?

    He also tells these stories far too salaciously for my tastes.

    Anyone else notice that he started reading from the line above where he was on his clearly prewritten-in-all-its-glory sermon?

      1. Probably true 99% of the time. But in our church when I was growing up, the pastor told my parents that people got offended with him for preaching against alcohol because “there are some women in this church who like their drink.”

    2. And you’re right, he did seem more mad at the people who defended themselves than at the attacking drunks.

  9. By the logic of the fundy militants, if any use of alcohol makes us more likely to kill, then any exposure to Independent Baptist Fundamentalism makes a person more likely to molest children.

        1. ditto. Bill, the entitlement taught in Christian Fundamentalism is a temptation to preachers to engage in sin because they are elevated so much. Legalism and authoritarian always create problems in that direction. That’s why strongly authiritarian/paternalistic cultures (Naziism, the Tokugawa period of Japan, the Orthodox Jewish culture, the Amish, etc.,) always have problems of widely practiced pederasty, and Christian Fundamentalism is no exception.

          Being dunked in a tub of water won’t incline a man to become a child molester. Being elevated and imparted a sense of entitlement simply by virtue of who he is will add a lot of temptations to his life.

        2. Thirty years in and I have yet to hear of this “entitlement” teaching you speak of. Maybe I have been blessed to have missed the phenomena. Maybe you paint with too broad of a brush. Maybe a little of both.

  10. I’d be willing to bet that this same preacher who blames the alcohol for every bad decision ever made by anyone under the influence, also has a bumper sticker that reads, “Guns don’t kill, people do.”

      1. Neither myself, my gun, nor the Mike’s in the fridge have ever killed anyone. Fundy logical inconsistencies for the lose.

        2. Mine’s under the sink, but I have a large frozen mixed drink — probably with about three shots in it — waiting for me when the time is right.

  11. “Illustration Number Four…”

    Yes I have to tell 4 stories that are questionably true, because I can find no examples of my philosophy in Scripture.

  12. So is the camera operator (oh wait its probably cameraman in a fundie church since all those women know how to do is cook, do dishes, and pop out babies) panning the audience at random so the MoG can go back and see who might be showing signs of guilt so he knows how to plan next weeks sermon?

  13. (1) “Why don’t they make a commercial out of that?” REALLY? You don’t know how marketing works?

    (2) I don’t think there’s anyone but fundamentalists (and alcoholics trying to use the excuse) that think “I was drunk” is a valid excuse (blackout or no).

    1. Oh I dunno, my ex-husband’s excuse for cheating on me was that he was drunk and therefore wasn’t really responsible…

    2. And then there’s Robin Williams’ idea of a realistic beer commercial: “It’s five o’ clock in the morning. You’ve just pissed on a dumpster. It’s Miller time!”

      2. By that logic, Steve Anderson should be a raging drunk!! Alcohol makes a man out of you!!

        1. The frightening thing about Steven Anderson is that he’s not drunk when he says those things.

        2. Dear Deacon’s Son:

          So what are you saying — that if Rev. Anderson preached drunk, no one would notice?

          Christian Socialist

        3. Christian Socialist,

          When Steve Anderson preaches, whether drunk or sober, very few take notice either way.

  14. Illustration no. 1 contained references to a mill worker grabbing a piece of stove wood. Exactly how old is this illustration?

    1. I’m assuming that among the mill worker’s other crimes is that he voted against Howard Taft.

      3. Fundys would definitely have voted for W.J. Bryan instead of Taft in 1908. So you must be referring to 1912, when Taft would probably have been God’s Choice™ in the 3-way race against Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson.

        Yes, I’m a history geek.

  15. I have suffered through graphic sermons such as this one before with my kids and have vowed never again. I commend the father who escorted his young son out. Eph 4:29 “Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.” In our old sect–I mean church–the self-promoting mog loved to indulge in describing sexuality immorality especially homosexuality. His justification was “Who do you want your kids to learn sex from? The world or their pastor?” That’s an actual quote.

    2. Read literally, that pastor’s quote is really scary. A real tragedy that there have been a few pastors out there who were apparently thinking, and acting on, what he was literally saying.

  17. I can completely understand why a person would choose not to drink. A person may feel as though they don’t want to tempt fate, or maybe they’ve had a family member who was an alcoholic, or maybe they’re health nuts and don’t want the empty calories.

    BUT, how can anyone seriously claim to “just preach the Bible” and say that drinking is a sin? That takes a bit of self deception. I’ve heard Baptists (SBC not IBF) and church of Christ folks claim that the wine at Caana and the wine consecrated by the Lord at the Last Supper were grape juice. Why? Because drinking is a sin and Jesus wouldn’t cause anyone to sin.

    Wow.

    Do they seriously not question why Christian Churches that can trace their roots to the Apostles (Orthodox, Catholic, Coptoic) use wine in their liturgies? Do they not wonder why tee-totaling is pretty much an exclusively American/English Methodist thing? Do they not know the history of Welch’s grape juice? Google it.

    Anyway, rant over. Don’t drink alcohol? Cool. Hope I won’t offend you if I do. But pu-leeze don’t give me the “drinking is a sin” thing.

    Peace,

    1. There is one verse in the old testament that is used to explain that giving someone alcohol is a sin, and that is why Jesus couldn’t have done it, and therefore the wine he made at the wedding wasn’t really wine, so we can ignore any other positive mention of wine in scripture…

      I don’t know the reference of that verse off the top of my head, it’s come up plenty of times. It actually means don’t give someone drink in order to take advantage of them. Which I’m perfectly happy to believe is sinful.

      1. The reference is in Habakkuk which says there is a “Woe to him that gives his neighbor drink” But the rest of the verse states, “so that they may look upon their nakedness.”

        SO the sin is against using alcohol to take advantage of someone, not in the sin of drinking alcohol…

    2. Also, they believe the Catholic church is sinful. Try reading a chick tract sometime. They’re all available to read online. The IFBs have this book called the trail of blood (I think), which manipulates history so extensively that it tries to make it look like IFB churches are the true spiritual descendants of the early christian church.

      1. So this is a bit off topic, and I’m sure we don’t want to go into it now, but if they are the descendants of the 1st century Christians, then where in the 1st century Christian world would I find a native IBF church? If we stick to the topic, where in the 1st century Christian world is alcohol considered a sin? Italy? France? Spain? Syria? Greece? Lebanon? Turkey? Palestine? Ethiopia? North Africa?

        Except, of course, for the Muslims living there.

        Anyway, it’s a history thing.

        1. IFBs believe that the early church of Acts believed that alcohol was a sin. It’s not historically accurate. It just makes them feel special and is a lame attempt at legitimacy.

        2. Islam was founded in the 7th century, so, just as a historical thing, the Syrians and Ethiopians in the 1st century church would not be teetotalling alongside them.

        3. “Islam was founded in the 7th century, so, just as a historical thing, the Syrians and Ethiopians in the 1st century church would not be teetotalling alongside them.”

          Correct.

          Rereading my post, that was not made clear. What I meant, but not made clear. Thanks for the clarification.

          Peace,

    3. IFB and SBC churches both go crazy about alcohol in similar ways. Any more, I go to the store, buy my alcohol, drink it on occasion in moderation, and let the haters do what they do best. As Ron White says, “you can’t fix stupid.” 🙄

    4. The argument I always heard was the verse: “be not drunk with wine but be filled with the holy spirit.” We were told that “even one sip can make you drunk.” Thus, it was a sin to drink. Ta-da!!!

      It was sort of the fundy version of the sorites paradox: if drinking a quart of alcohol makes you drunk, then what about a quart minus one sip? Hmm??? What if you take away another sip? Still drunk??? Hmmmmm???? And so on. My mother fervently believes the “one sip will make you drunk” truism like it’s holy writ. (She actually was into alcohol and drugs in college, so she isn’t holding this opinion out of ignorance. She’s just a liar like all the rest of them.)

      Anyway, I learned A LOT about drinking when I worked in Moscow for a year. Watching an aged Muscovite grandmother glug down a full bottle of vodka, toss it into a snowbank, and then proceed to walk down the street as steady as can be teaches you a thing or two about the “one sip makes you drunk” nonsense.

        2. I am a total lightweight. I start to feel really good about halfway through a glass of wine. :mrgreen:

          But one sip does nothing for me. I find it doubtful anyone could get ‘drunk’ after a sip.

      2. “Anyway, I learned A LOT about drinking when I worked in Moscow for a year. Watching an aged Muscovite grandmother glug down a full bottle of vodka, toss it into a snowbank, and then proceed to walk down the street as steady as can be teaches you a thing or two about the “one sip makes you drunk” nonsense.”

        Right. People euphemistically referred to as experienced drinkers can have an astronomically high BAC and not feel or act drunk. On the other hand, a person who only drinks once in a Blue Moon (pun intended) really wouldn’t need to drive after only a couple of glasses of Champagne. Even though the inexperienced drinker might have a BAC of much less than the legal limit, but might not be safe at all to drive.

        The moral to the story is, if you can walk a line after a liter of vodka get thee to a treatment facility. If you drink only on special occasions give someone else the keys.

        Peace,

        1. Typical American response, judging the experience of another culture through the lens of our own. Very few Muscovites own or drive cars. The world of many pensioners seldom extends past a few city blocks. Thus, drinking vodka like water really doesn’t endanger anyone and, if it brings them comfort, then I say live and let live. (Now, alcohol-related diseases are not uncommon among Russia’s elderly, but I say don’t point a finger as long as many teetotaling elderly Americans are suffering from obesity-related and/or tobacco-related diseases.)

          Of course different amounts of alcohol affect different people in different ways. However, it is also clear that the American use of BAC as a proxy for impairment is just that: a proxy. In other words, it doesn’t hold for everyone all the time. And even if it did, it still doesn’t show that one sip can make you “drunk.” (I doubt one sip could even render anyone legally impaired.)

        2. “The moral to the story is, if you can walk a line after a liter of vodka get thee to a treatment facility. If you drink only on special occasions give someone else the keys.”

          How well you hold your alcohol does not necessarily correlate with how frequently you drink.

        3. “Typical American response, judging the experience of another culture through the lens of our own.”

          Slow your roll there, Deacon. I was agreeing with you, for heaven’s sake.

          I wasn’t implying that the elderly lady in your example was driving or not driving. Merely agreeing with your assessment that one sip doesn’t make you drunk. Particularly if you regularly polish of vodka by the liter.

          On the opposite side of that coin, a person with very little experience drinking alcohol will feel the effects and experience a decrease in motor control after a comparatively little amount of alcohol. In one post you claim you’ve only tasted alcohol once in your life. No way I’m getting into a car with you after two beers. Not happening. Now, could you pass a breathalyzer? BAC is a legal thing, not a medical thing. Sure you could. Would you be an “impaired” driver? Most likely, yes.

          Now, as to the live and let live thing with the liter-o-vodka drinking Russian, you aren’t seriously telling me that drinking like that has no ill health effects are you? Now, should a person be legally allowed to wreck their health? Sure. Should a person’s loved ones try to intervene in a situation like that? Absolutely.
          Peace,

        4. “How well you hold your alcohol does not necessarily correlate with how frequently you drink.”

          Well, obviously body weight, gender and liver function factor in.

          But, all things being equal the old school drunk can put down lots-o-booze and you’d never know it. The teetotaler sipping sangria at his cousin’s wedding will have a completely different result.

          Again, assuming same gender, roughly equivalent body weight and liver functioning.

          Peace,

        5. How experienced you are as a drinker will definitely affect the amount it takes to impair you/get you drunk. This is the exact same reason why withdrawal for an occasional drinker is called a “hangover” and for an experienced alcoholic is called “delirium tremens”. Cumulative effects on the brain.

      2. He made the best wine anyone ever tasted.
        Either that or he made better grape juice than Welch…

    2. I thought that “Jesus wasn’t a bartender” is copyright by that friend of SFL, John Hamblin. 🙂

  19. I can’t believe people actually sit still for this tripe!

    And if this supposed town drunk was somone he actually knew, why didn’t this preacher help the poor woman and the baby who were living with him? IF this story were true, this preacher is guilty as an accessory to murder because he KNEW the guy was a ragin drunk and probably told the wife to stay in the house with him anyway!

  20. To alcohol! The cause of and solution to all of life’s problems!

    (injecting some badly needed levity into these proceedings.)

  21. http://www.ncadd.org/images/stories/PDF/factsheet-alcoholandcrime.pdf

    Proverbs 23:29-35: Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

    I Corinthians 5:11: But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

    Ephesians 5:18: And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

    1. Yes, the bible has a lot to say about drunkenness. But fundies take those passages and apply them to any drinking of alcohol, which can’t be supported biblically.

    2. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
      Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
      His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
      And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
      Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
      And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
      When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
      And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
      John 2:3-10

      For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
      The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
      Matthew 11:18-19

      He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
      And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man’s heart.
      Psalm 104:14-15

      And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
      Deuteronomy 14:26

      1. Wow. That Deuteronomy passage basically COMMANDS us to drink wine and strong drink!! Yippee!!

        1. Although I should add that because the King James uses the word “lusteth” in that verse, I once heard a sermon that God ALLOWED them to drink but he didn’t approve of it. (Kind of like how the OT allows divorce but fundies are against that too.)

      2. Psalm 104:14 is the verse the Rastafarians love to cite in support of the use of “herb” (marijuana).

    3. L2J,

      What’s interesting is that every single “problem” these verses list I have NOT ONCE encountered from drinking alcoholic beverages for YEARS now. Have I somehow proved the bible wrong? Or is there some fallacy of fundy logic at play here?

      I’ve never once been drunk, but I’ve had my share of Jagermeister plenty of times. Am I just a freak of nature here or might there be some reasoning behind this?

      1. Fundies make everything black and white with no discerning that there are positions in between. If being drunk is wrong, therefore drinking any alcohol is wrong. If drinking any alcohol is wrong, eating at a restaurant that serves alcohol must be wrong…

        The reality is we are to show discernment. For someone who has a problem with alcohol, avoiding any contact with alcohol might be a good thing. But standing up and preaching that all contact with alcohol is evil for anyone is just wrong.

        1. Yep. You’re right. How does one explain that though I’ve been a responsible consumer of alcohol for a while now, I don’t have ANY of these things listed in those bible verses happening to me? The fundies sure like to try to scare the sh*t out of you with things that often turn out to be extreme cases or outright lies.

        2. I read an interesting description in a fiction book once – the society had suffered major problems a few generations ago, and the church stepped in to restore public order by returning to basic rules of morality. By the time of the book, this had become a crushing legalism. One described rule that jumped out to me was that, since gluttony was sin, all food must be bland, because savoury food would tempt the public to sin by indulging to excess. Same logic, and about the same amount of Biblical support.

          Oh, and I might also mention that rules about sex instructed that sex could be only for procreation, and it was sin to get pleasure from even marital sex (due to lust), even for procreation purposes, pleasure was not allowed even as an incidental. It’s a good book on coming out of legalism.

      2. Perhaps, but if you’ve never been drunk then you’ve never been “They that tarry long at the wine”. As far as what it’s like to be a drunk, which I can attest to, the Bible is pretty spot on. All of these are specifically referring to what we’d call “alcoholics” or “problem drinkers” these days though, not people who have had alcohol.

    4. I see your 3 proof texts and raise you 4 plus a Martin Luther quote:

      [Gen 27:28 KJV] Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and WINE:

      [Deu 7:13 KJV] And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy WINE, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

      [Psa 104:15 KJV] And WINE [that] maketh glad the heart of man, [and] oil to make [his] face to shine, and bread [which] strengtheneth man’s heart.

      [Joe 3:18 KJV] 18 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the mountains shall drop down new WINE, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

      “Beer is made by men, wine by God.”
      ― Martin Luther

      1. Robert, don’t you know that even though the King James is the perfect word of God, that the word “wine” in all those verses means “grape juice”??? 😯

        1. Ah yes, wine=grape juice…unless the context is negative then clearly it’s demon drink… 🙄

          The mental gymnastics to get to that conclusion are dizzying.

          Instead of justifying pet doctrines, why don’t they try to actually read the Bible LITERALLY like they already claim to do?

    5. Oh yeah, I forgot the “look not on the wine” proverb. We were also taught that it was a sin to even LOOK at wine. My mother actually said that this created a problem for her when the grocery store in town added a wine aisle. How could she shop there without looking at wine and therefore sinning???

      1. Got the same nonsense at my last fundy church. It’s stupid really, and shows no understanding of sin or the human condition.

        Sin is something outside of us that we have to guard against and avoid, otherwise it will creep in and infect us, turning us holy, separated, consecrated, soul-winning Baptists into heathens… or worse, Calvinists!
        /sarcasm

        1. Cf. the passage fundies love to ignore:

          And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear and understand: Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

          Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

          But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

          Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart, and they defile the man.

          Matthew 15

      2. She shouldn’t have even gone there, because what if someone saw her go inside? She might have been buying wine. 🙄 Also, she should never have bought produce, because she might have used potatoes to make vodka, grapes to make wine, apples to make hard cider, etc. She obviously didn’t take seriously the command to come out from the unclean thing and be separate. 🙄

        1. Down at Roloff Enterprises at one of their fishing shacks along the intercoastal waterway, one of the guys used canned peaches, and maybe powdered orange drink, along with yeast to make alcohol.

  22. I might start drinking if someone ever comes up with something alcoholic that doesn’t taste like alcohol. In the mean time I’ll stick with Coca Cola. 🙂

    1. I’m with you 🙂

      I have one glass of moscato at Christmas. But really when given the choice, I’d rather a glass of coca-cola.

    2. Walmart sells these little Seagrams drinks with 3% alcohol that taste like soda. They are the only ones my wife can handle of the other things I drink. :mrgreen:

    4. Goldschlager and cinnamon schnapps are both delightful. I also like those little pouches of mixed drinks that you just pop into the freezer.

      Pretty much anything that I have to hold my nose to drink or anything that looks like urine, well, I’m not touching with a pole.

      1. Correcting: Goldschlager is a specific brand of CS. The best, as far as I’m concerned. But CS is also good.

    5. I have some tequilla if anyone feels like taking their clothes off at 3 o’clock on a Monday afternoon.

    6. I’m happy to cook with a variety of alcoholic drinks, but drinking them straight? Bleah!

      I’ll make an exception for mead, because mead is happiness in a bottle, and well-aged salmonberry wine, because it goes down like fruit juice and then you discover that you can’t stand up.* But anything else is either a flavoring or something weird smelling that I cannot have in my kitchen.

      *And I will not purchase either one because both of my parents were alcoholics. Heredity is not necessarily destiny but it sure can grease the rails.

      1. Seconding your description of mead–the best, in my opinion, tastes like honey, goes down like fruit juice, and needs to be sipped slowly if you’re intending to stand up eventually. Three year old cinnamon cordial that the brewer made and then forgot about until she found it in a dusty corner is outstanding, too.

    7. Well, there’s always a really good margarita. Not those abominations that are made with cheap tequila and anything but limes and then frozen, though. A good traditional margarita served over ice in a proper glass with a salted rim doesn’t taste like alcohol. Don’t drink more than one, though, if you need to drive home.

    1. That’s a pretty crappy god, if he’s that powerless. Why bother following him then?

  25. I think the boy had to go potty. Or at least the Dad decided the boy had to go potty.

    Concerned Deacon: So, Mr. Smith, why did you get up during that fine sermon and leave the hallowed sanctuary?

    Dad: My precious little boy had to go potty.

    Concerned Deacon: Ok, that fine then. So long as you twernt leaving on a account of a rebellious heart.

    -appearances maintained, and tragedy diverted-

    1. This is a fundy church. Odds are very good that the dad was taking Junior out to give him a spanking.

  27. I watched it. My advice to those who didn’t watch it: don’t. Some notes:

    (1) “Public Enemy No. 1.” I thought this was Barack Obama, not alcohol.

    (2) “Began to scream.” Um, I thought the baby was already dead? So how did it scream? Was this anecdote taken from a Stephen King novel??

    (3) “Choking the mom.” Not to downplay domestic violence, but the only time that I personally ever heard of a boy walking in to find his father choking his mother was a Baptist preacher in our town who tried to strangle his wife and his son walked in on them. (No shooting involved in the story I heard. I knew the son pretty well after dad left the mom and she and her kids joined our church.)

    (4) “Hell.” So, if you die drunk then you go to hell? That’s what he says in this “sermon” anyway.

    Hard to decide whether this is shocking and offensive or just plain stupid and offensive.

    1. Wow, I thought of those first two things as well when I watched it (I only got through illustration 2). I immediately thought that, no, the government in some way is the fundy’s biggest enemy. The baby screaming thing kinda hit me; I had to go back and listen to get the chronological events, and yes, the baby was screaming without lungs (to say the least).

  28. The American protestant bias against alcohol is incredibly deeply ingrained. When I attended evangelical Patrick Henry College we had to give a persuasive speech in rhetoric class. One of my friends who has lived in France decided, just to be a little controversial, to give her speech on the topic of alcohol not being a sin. She referenced many of the verses that people have been quoting here today and talked about how Christians in most other countries do not object to alcohol whatsoever.

    As part of the exercise, everyone in the class was required to write comments in response to each speech and turn them in. My friend later showed me the comments that she got. One in particular sticks out in my mind: “Wine is just rotten grape juice. HOW DARE you say that MY GOD created death and rot!!” (Never mind the fact that God did create both of those things. Of course, He also created sugar and yeast and everything else needed to brew a good strong drink.) I just remember being taken aback to realize that what I had always considered a fringe idea even in fundamentalism was in fact a fairly mainstream conservative Christian value.

    1. Ah, the “but it’s rotten” argument. Not only is wine a sin, but so is yogurt, vinegar, and soy sauce. How moronic.

      1. Don’t forget bread. Bread is “just” rotted grain.
        So if fermented foods are demonic, stay away from bread.

        1. Proof text:
          “Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.”

          Matthew 16:6

        2. As you already noted, avoiding standard bread as a SYMBOL of sin is on ground at least as strongly justified as avoiding alcohol. Especially given the prominence of Pesach.

    2. About God creating death – ok, I’ll allow the point with reservations that there may not have been alcoholic beverages in Eden. We’re not in Eden.

      About “rot” being a bad thing – rot is the original recycling, releasing nutrients back to nature to be reused. Just because one prefers the original doesn’t make the rotten item inherently “bad”. We’d be in a sorry state if there was no rot! Oh, and unless that person wanted to argue that grapes are alive, the only things dying in making wine are the yeast cells themselves when the alcohol reaches a toxic concentration.

      I’m a geek. I do have a sense of humour, but I’ll admit I’m being way serious on this post. Facts! They matter!

  29. Funny….I’d bet 90% of people who commit a murder have not had a drink in a week..

    What a tool.

    Instead he should be preaching about what the Bible actually says…it says not to be drunk with wine…it doesn’t say not to drink it at all.

    The Bible teaches personal responsibility

    1. Almost 100% of the people who commit murder have drunk water at some point.
      When are we going to ban water?

    2. thats the point Jenn, they are not preaching God’s word, they are preaching men’s foolish ideas. So,what are they doing?, they are preaching false doctrine and leading people astray and mocking God’s gift to man and calling it sin.

  30. “Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.”

    Wine that moves by itself? That must be some powerful stuff!
    I guess the wine that just sits there is OK to drink, then. Especially white wine.

    But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be … a railer … with such an one no not to eat.

    No more eating with Fundy preachers …

  31. The Pilgrims drank beer. I know because my ancestor John Doane (also known as DEACON John Doane) was once fined for selling liquor without a license. :mrgreen: They din’t care that he sold it..he just needed to pay the tax.

    Unfortunately I grew up in such a strict non drinking environment that I didn’t know any social drinkers. All I knew were either non-drinkers or alcoholics which included my maternal grandfather and several paternal cousins. In fact my dad stopped drinking when he was young because he ‘didn’t know when to stop.’ I never saw examples of moderate social drinking until I became and adult. I can’t now because of health reasons but that has always bothered me.

    1. I absolutely identify.

      My maternal grandfather and several of his children were alcoholics. My family, being IFB, drank nothing at all ever and even avoided the liquor aisle AND restaurants that sold alcohol.

      I grew up fearing it. As I’ve aged, I no longer fear it, but I do still have a healthy respect for it. I limit myself to a single drink — occasionally two — rarely throughout the year.

  32. My friends, I have a confession to make.

    1. Last night, I went to a music festival.
    2. While there, I drank a can of Mexican beer.
    3. I then cut 15 people’s throats with the sharp edge of a tortilla chip.

    Oh, no, wait. Only #1 and #2 happened.
    All the thousand or so beer drinkers there were peaceful and well-behaved. And the festival ended with the organizers offering to call a cab for anyone who had had been drinking.
    They must not have gotten the message that they were all supposed to beat women and children and kill babies.

      2. I see why he married her. That was adorably hilarious. 😆

        Also, this is far more typical behavior of intoxicated individuals than going headlong into a grisly, murderous rampage. 🙄

  33. I listened only to the first one – that was graphic enough.

    Problems with this preacher, and the to-drink-or-not-to-drink-alcohol discussions aside, it cannot be refuted that alcoholic drinking leads to a lot of problems. Husbands have, in drunken rages, killed their wives. Drunken fathers HAVE killed their children. A friend of mine, a young father, was killed by a drunken driver, leaving his young wife and 15-month old to fend for themselves.

    So yes, I don’t drink alcohol. I think it is a drug that all would do wise to stay away from. However, I am not a crusader; I do not get “in the face” of my friends and acquaintances who drink. And I don’t even mind preaching about the evils of drunkenness.

    The shock tactics of this man, who sounds as if he were not even qualified to be a preacher, is another thing.

  34. Alcoholics are also really, really good at blaming the alcohol. I wonder what that says about most IFBs?

    Now, I’ve never been falling-down drunk but I do occasionally have a drink or two and in the past a few more than that. It has never once “made” me do anything totally out of character. I just don’t believe that alcohol turns nice people into assholes. It just shows the true color of their character.

    1. “I just don’t believe that alcohol turns nice people into assholes.”

      So true. It tends to turn nice people into nicer people. And it turns assholes into bigger assholes.

  35. Last night I drank some Jim Beam neat, then I fell asleep on the couch while watching ESPN.

    WHY DON’T THEY MAKE A COMMERCIAL OUT OF THAT HAYMEN?

    4. i don’t need alcohol to make me cuss, watching Tom Brady miss wide open receivers makes me, on occasion, drop the f bomb 👿

  36. So I just thought of this. Darrell was kind enough to give us a warning about the graphic images illustrated in the clip. We could decide if we wanted to subject ourselves to it. Do you think this knucklehead or the church gave such a warning? Or do you think they just consider this good olf-fashioned preachin’™?

    1. I can’t speak for all fundies, but the excuse Pastor Schettler @ PCC used to use for no warnings on graphic content was that “the gospel is a bloody message”.

      1. There was a time when I’d have agreed with that statement. (Brainwashing…does nobody any good.)

        Now, I assert that the Gospel of Christ is hope wrapped in love and graciously given to all.

      2. I would reply to Pastor Jimmy that the Bible does not wallow in the gore of the crucifixion. It keeps the details pretty simple and sterile: they scourged Him, they crucified Him. By his stripes we are healed. Certainly, to the ancients, just knowing that Jesus had been crucified undoubtedly conjured up a fairly graphic mental image, one which we moderns lack without SOME additional information. But, I always found it nearly blasphemous the way some fundamentalist preachers engage in what could best be described as crucifixion porn. I remember one preaching contest where all the speakers got into a battle trying to one-up everyone else in making the crucifixion sound particularly gory and bad.

  37. First of all, I don’t believe this story. I think he made it up or heard another preacher use it in a sermon who heard another preacher use it..who made it up.

    Having said that, I grew up in a pastor’s home and have served in ministry myself for a couple of decades. The family tragedies that we’ve dealt with during this time have been horrendous. Not butchering babies, but still heart-breaking. Alcohol abuse was a contributing factor in a overwhelmingly significant portion of these.

    My point is, I know why some preachers hate the stuff. That doesn’t excuse twisting Scripture to make the point. But hear enough sad tales and you’ll strongly encourage people to abstain as well.

    (And, yes, I know my logic is faulty. I’m arguing from an emotional standpoint today.)

    So, to be clear, the guy is this video is wrong, wrong, wrong. But for those of you reading, please, please, please use caution if you choose to drink. And please think twice before encouraging others to drink by making it look like they’re missing something glorious if they don’t. Some people should never try alcohol. They won’t be able to handle it.

    Soapbox tirade over. Thanks for letting me vent.

    1. Those given to excesses will still be given to excesses. Better to be taught self-control (which is fruitful) than taught fear (which is not).

    2. And please think twice before encouraging others to drink by making it look like they’re missing something glorious if they don’t

      I’m a lifelong teetotaler, because I think alcohol tastes bad, not because I believe the Bible forbids it. I do not lecture other people not to drink. I do not have a problem with other people choosing to drink (responsibly).

      When I go to social events where alcohol is served, I grab a soda and do not pass judgment on the drinkers in the room, or call attention to my non- drinking.

      But boy do the drinkers ever notice if you opt for soda or water to a beer.

      American culture is very caught up in alcohol. Once drinkers at parties see I am drinking soda, or they ask if I want alcohol and I say no, the pressure begins.

      People begin pestering me to drink, or they demand to know exactly why I will not drink (as though it’s their business- it really is not).

      Some drinkers sort of act awkward around me once they find out I am a teetotaler (even after I sometimes make it clear I am NOT a recovering alcoholic, I abstain due to personal preferences- yes, I’ve had people assume I am a non-drinker because I must be in A. A.
      It never occurs to people that some people don’t drink just happen to think booze tastes like crap).

      Some (even adults!) begin hounding me to drink, “Oh come on, you will love it! Have a drink! Have a drink! Have a drink! Have a drink!”

      I actually find the lack of respect for teetotalism due to personal choice (and yes, it does in fact happen, drinkers will tell me, “but I’ve never seen drinkers hound non drinkers like you say,” well believe me, it does happen, and I find it) ten times more obnoxious than an IFB or Southern Baptist preacher going on an anti-alcohol rant in the pulpit.

      As a teen I was pressured by other teens and by adults at social events to drink. As an adult, I’ve been grilled as to why I don’t drink, and pressured by other adults to drink.

      I do not know why being a teetotaler is so threatening to so many drinkers. Why do drinkers care if I don’t drink? I don’t care if they choose to drink, so I wish they would back off.

      I don’t perform an inquisition on drinkers, so I have no idea why so many think it’s okay to grill me on my non-drinking.

      2. “But boy do the drinkers ever notice if you opt for soda or water to a beer. American culture is very caught up in alcohol. Once drinkers at parties see I am drinking soda, or they ask if I want alcohol and I say no, the pressure begins. People begin pestering me to drink, or they demand to know exactly why I will not drink (as though it’s their business- it really is not).”

        Really? That’s not been my experience AT ALL. I drink maybe three or four times a year. Never more than two drinks at a time. And never at social functions — usually only on date night with my husband. And not one single time has anyone asked me why I don’t drink or bugged me about saying “No thanks.” They offer, I refuse, and that’s that.

        My husband has never had alcohol. Not once in his life. And no one bugs him about it, either. And he goes out with his coworkers after late nights at the range — to bars — and no one bugs him about drinking there, either.

        I wonder if it’s maybe the age range of people involved. It just seems beyond strange to me that adults — beyond college-age, I mean — would be pressuring people into drinking. Incredibly rude, for sure.

        1. I’m thinking this is more of a young people thing. Although, my wife and I regularly don’t get invited to social events with a certain group of our friends and when we have asked why we were told it was because we don’t drink.

          Nothing can beat the time in college, however, that a friend said, “hey can you hold my beer for a second?” and then after he handed it to me said, “well, now you are holding it, you might as well take a sip!” I told him I might accidentally drop it on the ground if he didn’t leave me alone about not drinking. That seemed to work.

        2. The CEO of the company I worked for for 7 years in Pittsburgh had a “bounty” out for either $100 or $500 for anyone that got me to drink.

          I put off the vibe that that kind of stuff is fine, and it personally is & was fine with me and all in good fun.

        4. “Although, my wife and I regularly don’t get invited to social events with a certain group of our friends and when we have asked why we were told it was because we don’t drink.”

          This sort of makes me want to beat my head against the wall. I invite drink-y people to my house but don’t serve alcohol. I guess I should stop … 🙄

        5. I’m kind of a regular at Friday teacher happy hour. Bunch of friends get together at 4 or 415 Friday, have three or so drinks, home by 6. It’s a great way to unwind with friends. My wife joins us, sometimes she will have one beer, sometimes just pop. No one bugs her at all, and she also has fun unwinding and talking!
          Love my Fridays after school. But all in moderation. If I stay too long, I pay all day Saturday. And it does not get easier as I get older!!

        6. I think it must be an age thing. I’ve sat in a large group of people drinking and had a glass of water many times and no one says a word about it. I do drink occasionally, but I don’t like beer and I’m allergic to red wine, so there is frequently nothing I can/want to drink at events at people’s homes. So I don’t. And no one cares either way.

          I think that
          whole “you must have a drink” culture is a thing that people do in college and through the mid 20s or so.

        7. My parents, in their 40’s, went on business trips to annual meetings and other such business stuff. At least once there was an open, paid-for, bar. My parents don’t drink. The morning after the open bar night, no one would look my parents in the eye because they weren’t sure what they might have done while drunk and knew my parents were the only ones that might know 😳 :mrgreen:

          Anyway, the real story I was going to tell was what some kind soul did when they found out my Mom wasn’t a drinker. They not only didn’t pressure her to drink, but they suggested a non-alcoholic drink to her that looked like beer. So she would fit in better and not stand out, in case she felt awkward. Kind of sweet, but Mom had to tell the person that enough people knew her there that there’d be quite a stir if she was seen with what appeared to be alcohol 😯 So that’s my family’s experience…

      4. This is the case with food as well. I choose not to eat certain foods, one being grains. People go out of their way to pressure me, make me feel guilty, challenge my decision, etc etc the second they find out about this. It’s weird that they care so much about what I choose to throw down my own pie whole.

  38. Wow, the health warning on the side of alcoholic beverages does not state anything about the side effects of drinking are cussing which leads to someone dying–either you or a baby.

    And then this fundamentalist logic that if something has the possibility of resulting in evil, then you have to avoid it is problematic since everything can be used for good or for evil. It has to be exhausting living in this much fear.
    And why is the solution to all this to call the thing evil instead of calling every body to live out self control. Instead the world needs to be completely avoided or things need to be completely outlawed so they aren’t tempted.

    1. And then this fundamentalist logic that if something has the possibility of resulting in evil, then you have to avoid it

      Another consideration is that with attitudes such as that, fundamentalists keep living as though they are in bondage to sin and/or Old Testament law observance. Jesus Christ came to bring liberty to captives. Fundies are still living like captives. They are wasting the freedom Christ bought for them.

      Do these guys not have passages such as Colossians 2 in their KJV Bibles, especially starting at verse 16?

      Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

      20Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21“Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

      1. Dear frisbee:

        You wrote: Fundies are still living like captives.

        I reply: A-HA!

        Christian Socialist

  39. So much that is wrong with this. As a medical professional, I would say the scene described in the ER is most likely due to a mix of alcohol, drugs, and mental illness.I am an emt and have witnessed similar scenarios before. Alcohol is classified as a drug. Also he failed to mention that most likely these examples were of people who have a genetic predisposition to alcoholism. Sounds like there was some other mental factors there as well. I am angered by the amount of children that are being subject to this tirade. I am glad the one gentleman left with his child, no matter what the reasoning. Just a random observation,the majority of that congregation were females. I see weird things. Oh wait, maybe I am drunk.

    2. Dear reheadedstepchild:

      I always leave the pub before the bar talk starts making sense. So far, I have escaped the ravages he describes.

      Christian Socialist

  40. When I was in college I worked in a coffee shop. I also had a blog at the time. Once, a co-worker and I were joking about spiking certain obnoxious customers’ drinks with Kahlua (which was of course illegal in our dry county in rural East Texas). I put up a blog post about it.

    Within a few days I got angry e-mails from my mother and the youth pastor’s wife excoriating me for drinking alcohol. My mother was incensed because she said that people would think I drank. The youth pastor’s wife confirmed my mother’s fears by accusing me of drinking. When I asked them how they came to that conclusion, I was told that you could only know what Kahlua was if you were a drinker. (Because no one who works in a coffee shop has EVER heard of Kahlua. Also, their accusation sort of begged the question of how THEY knew what Kahlua was.) I was ordered to take the post off of my blog (I refused) because it was a bad testimony and made my mother look bad.

    This incident directly led to me being publically accused at church of drinking, which led to a rift between me and the family whose daughter my parents wanted me to marry, which let my mother to lie to me and claim that she (my mother) started the drinking rumors about me even though it was actually the girl they wanted me to marry (because my mother didn’t want me to think anything bad about her). The drama just got sillier and sillier.

    (Item: it was while working at that coffee shop that I tried alcohol for the only time in my life. We had wine left over from a rehearsal dinner at the coffee shop and I tasted it. Didn’t care for it so I never tried it again.)

    1. Only a drinker could know what Kahlua is?
      Wow.

      I know what necrophilia is, but I’ve never tried it.
      I know what Angel Dust is, but I’ve never … Oh, forget. There’s no reasoning with this kind of person.

  41. I would rather be at a bar than a fundie church. At the bar, if someone tells me to go to hell, they usually don’t mean it. The bartender at my favorite does not look down on me if I visit another bar. The various bars around town will often cooperate to raise money for a charity. Sometime I will meet the employees from one bar at another. My bartenders at my favorite bar attended different bartending schools. I have never seen a help wanted sign ay my favorite bar stating they only hire staff trained at Bartender Jones University.
    More wars have been fought over religion than alcohol. So please everyone in the Middle East have a beer. The first round is on AIPAC.

    1. Master’s Mark College and Bartendary is really my only choice when hiring qualified, dispensational men of the bottle.

  42. Now, if you’re somebody who has also killed somebody with a butcher knife while drunk keep your hand up.

    Oh, at least once per week at a minimum. (Joking).

    I’ve always been a teetotaler, though, not because of religious objections, but because I have never fancied the taste.

  44. I am not a teetotaler. I do enjoy a gin & tonic or a couple of boutique beers. As I’ve mentioned before on this site, I have been in law enforcement for 26 years. I have worked many homicides, and most of them had a nexus to alcohol or drugs. That is not to say that the crimes were totally caused by the alcohol or drugs. Determining actual causation is tricky.

    Having said that, I agree with those here who have said that alcohol just releases the inhibitions of the drinker. Many people successfully push their anger below the surface. Add alcohol and the anger may (or may not) come spilling out. Sometimes that anger is expressed with hurtful words; other times with fists; still others with weapons and violence, even resulting in death.

    Homicide and the lesser forms of violence are perpetrated by dysfunctional people. Many of those dysfunctional people are also terrible substance abusers.

    Not all dysfunctional people are substance abusers. Growing up in fundamentalism, I was surrounded by people who, by and large, were not substance abusers. The pastors abused their congregation by belittling them, by convincing them that they were vile and sinful, and that redemption could be realized by submitting to their pastor without question. These pastors, whether or not they were traditional substance abusers, were drunk with the wine of control over others, besotted with self-superiority.

    The abuse they meted out is illustrated with the vile ‘preaching’ in today’s video.

    1. Dear Bald Jones Grad:

      I suspect that many fundamentalists are hard drinkers. Mountains of guilt and the impossibility of pleasing a legalistic deity can do that.

      Christian Socialist

      1. You’re probably entirely correct. Having left the fundy kingdom years ago, I couldn’t say. Intuitively, what you say makes sense.

      2. I’ve never seen a hard-drinking fundy (at least not that I know of). I have seen them put the fundy into other areas, like food issues, etc. For so many of them the idea of going to a liquor store is frightening because of the whole concept of “appearance of evil”.

    2. Exactly what I believe. I don’t deny that alcohol and/or drugs can be contributing factor, but there’s no one that loves & adores their family, gets drunk, and beats/kills them. The term “demon alcohol” is the fundy way of saying Alcohol will make you do things you don’t even want to do and have no control over.

      IMO (as admittedly a non-drinker), Alcohol at worst can make you do more than you wanted to, and overstimulate your desire to do things, not create it.

      1. Alcohol is a drug, and like any other drug, affect brain chemistry and can cause behavioral changes. It’s hard to quantify and qualify them.. I don’t know to what degree alcohol makes psychological drives and bases urges come to the surface, or to what degree it actually creates urges where none would naturally exist. I suspect it’s more of the former than they latter. But a loss of inhibition is itself a personality change cause by a chemical change in the brain.

  45. If that woman in the first illustration had had her dinner ready for her husband, like a good wife, this never would have happened. Obviously it’s the wife’s fault. /s 🙄

    I have no respect for people that go on like this. Telling obviously fabricated stories to forward their point. I think even less of those who stay under a man like that.

    1. I googled, and googled, and googled some more. And when that didn’t work, I googled again to find a thread of truth to this “preacher’s” story about the baby and the drunk guy.

      The closet I came was to a woman and her child, and a Russian doctor assisting a woman giving birth. You’d think that with a quadgazillion hits in .000000005698 seconds we’d come up with the truth.

      B.R.O.

      1. Well at least he didn’t use the Glurge section of Snopes to find his sermon illustrations.

  47. Dear Danny Castle:

    I was wrong!

    I took Darrell’s words to mean that you were going to give us a sermon on the evils of infant baptism.

    Instead, you gave us blood, guts and thunder.

    Christian Socialist

  49. I guess I’ll chime in. What an idiot. What a bunch of stupid stories. Why do people believe junk like that?

    I don’t drink either since I spent most of my childhood cleaning up after a drunk and learned to hate the smell. But a sin? Seriously?

  50. Um…the psychological profession has some very serious work surrounding people who collect and share gruesome stories, pictures, and video. It is very disturbing behavior. I’m actually scared for this man.

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