Public Life, Standards

Refusing Help From Those Who Aren’t Just Like Us

165 Comments

Former missionary and Fellowship Tract League representative Tom Patterson tells an apocryphal story from Myanmar while speaking at Solid Rock Independent Baptist Church.

I can’t imagine having my children starve and then having the arrogance to refuse help from another Christian organization simply because they weren’t in lock step with my beliefs. This is not Christianity. I don’t know what this is.

Discussion question: exactly how many Burmese Bible translations are there?

165 thoughts on “Refusing Help From Those Who Aren’t Just Like Us”

  2. Seriously, that is outrageous. Probably isn’t really true, but still. I call BS on two levels:
    1) very few people have thrown away survival skills to that extreme.
    2) if they thought any IFBs would show up with material aid… yeah right.

    1. ^ #2 +16 Trillion
      A more true observation has never been uttered.
      IFB… to the rescue? 😯 😯 😆 😆

    2. Of course it didn’t happen.
      But how many in Tom Patterson’s audience for this talk are going to go to Burma and check it out?

      By the way, did you hear how many people on the Moon have been saved due to my soul-winning?

    1. Yes, I couldn’t help noticing that here a very fat man is telling Burmese people they should starve rather than accepting help from Assembly of God members. Where in this guy’s Bible does it say to do THAT?

      1. C’mon now; HE is not recommending this; he is relating a story about what the Burmese (Korean?) leader said. He didn’t advocate the position, except maybe by virtue of telling the story.

        1. C’mon, he is at least implicitly endorsing the position the leader took in his parable.

          By the way, he is speaking here of Karen (not Korean) people. The Karen are one of the minority ethnic groups of Burma/Myanmar. A substantial minority of Karen are Baptists (although not necessarily IFB).
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_people

        2. What Big Gary said. By recounting this “story” in the way he is, he’s endorsing the actions of the group’s leader – he is approving of his reasons for rejecting the aid.

          Which makes me wonder – would this “pastor” tell his unemployed church members that they should not accept welfare or any other government aid if it were needed? After all, the federal government certainly doesn’t believe what they do. Would his church meet their needs instead (yeah right)?

        3. I’m not defending him; as I said, he is, by virtue of telling the story, approving of the leader. But he is not, as Big Gary stated, telling the Burmese people to refuse aid; their leader refused the aid, and this man (apparently) approves. But it is not the same thing.

          I appreciate the link; I’ve never heard of the Karen people before.

      2. A lot of American Baptist preacher-men tend to be fat. (To the point the image of the grossly-fat preacher denouncing some usually-sexual sin is all over YouTube.) I chalk it up to all those Baptist church potlucks.

        1. Catholics fast because the Church tells them to.
          Charismatics fast because they feel led by God.
          Liberal Protestants fast to lose weight.
          Fundamentalists eat all the time. 😀

  4. “I’d rather starve a Baptist then die a compromiser.”

    SFL – getting their theology from witty sayings.

    1. from flubbed ones, no less. I think it should have been,

      “I’d rather starve a baptist than live a compromiser” or some such

  5. Christian is what we are. Baptist is just our flavor.What arrogance to believe that only baptist have a corner in heaven. Denominations are man made not God made. God sent life preservers to a sinking ship and they chose to drown. Unbelievable.

    1. Different flavors of Christian, yes, exactly!

      One of my greatest joys has been un-teaching the narrow-mindedness of the IFB to my children. It’s amazing to hear how their comments of others have gone from, “So-and-so is going to hell because s/he smokes.” to “My new friend is a Christian mom! S/he’s Catholic, so s/he’s a different flavor, but s/he loves Jesus, too!”

      2. In my own life, even right, now there have been different flavours of Christianity. I was raised Methodist, but my mother was originally Quaker (still is, at heart). My paternal Grandparents were originally Church of Ireland (Anglican). I have second cousins who are Catholic. I now go to a non-denominational Church which had it’s roots in in the Brethren Movement, but still sometimes go to the Methodist Church I grew up in. I attend meetings during the week in an Anglican Church, and several times a year would go to a Quaker meeting. Most Sunday evenings I go to a (non-Fundie) Baptist Church. So if you want to stick a label on me ,I am Modified Brethren, part-time Anglican, part-time Methodist, part-time Baptist and occasional Quaker! 😀 Am I saved at all?

      3. Different flavors of Christian, yes, exactly!

        “One Bread,
        One Body,
        One Lord of all…”
        — common Communion hymn in my church

    2. The deliciously ironic thing here is that to most outsiders, only an expert could tell the difference between Baptists and Pentecostalists. And both of those churches have similarly disparaging views of Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Seventh-Day Adventists, etc.

        2. So true, Nicholas!

          I know of one who seemed to believe his sins were forgiven if he didn’t eat pork and gave a lot of money.

      2. Agreed. You wouldnt want to unequally yoked together with unbelievers would you? That would be like selling your birthright for some pottage. Starvation is apparently the only option.

  6. My Spidey sense is tingling on this one. I have serious doubts as to the veracity of this story. Besides that, the Assemblies are pretty darned well accepted on the field. The AoG doesn’t have an “official” position on the KJV but a good number of them use it. So I have doubts from that angle too. And I agree with Strangely Warmed…old Tom could do with some food-based courage of convictions.

    1. After being in the fundie church for so many years here is how it most likely went down.

      Liberal compromising church leader walks up to fundie missionary with aid. Fundie missionary takes the aid, and thanks the liberal compromising church leader.

      Fundie missionary writes back in his prayer letter how he stuck to the blood the book and the blessed hope while sending the compromising church on their way while kicking the dust off their feet as they left.

      This kind of stuff scores big time points with the big boys back in the MOGland.

    2. Craig, this pegged my BS meter as well. I think that this falls under Fundy Rule #71 at the right-hand margin of the page. Either that, or this alleged “leader” (and this so-called “evangelist”) is (are) a spawn of Satan. I make the odds 85/15. Come to think of it, I make the odds 99/1 that the “evangelist” is a spawn of Satan even if the story is BS.

  7. In other words, “I would rather be an self-righteous, arrogant ass then experience the full body of Christ”. Wonder what “his people” would have done if they would have been asked?

  8. Starving Independent Baptists – A good place to start… 😆

    Of course you’ll notice no Independent Baptist pastor in the US is starving … their guts are evidence of that. 😥

  10. “When they didn’t line up with the Bible and doctrine he believed and taught“(emphasis added in incredulity).

    WOW! I guess God’s doctrine really does take a backseat to the Glorious Baptist tradition. I wonder how much assistance Patterson offered.

  11. Stuff Fundies Like: telling stories from the pulpit that can’t be verified to prove their “point.”

  12. I find it hard to believe, but then again the motto of the Karen that has kept them in Burma through all of the oppression is “For us surrender is out of the question”, and can be a pretty stubborn group which fits in nicely with the IFB

    1. Don’t you dare compare the Karen to the reprobate IFB. The IFB doesn’t have what it takes to suffer through real oppression anyway. That’s beacuse their’s is a false faith, a pharisee faith. Bring real persecution, and the IFB would evaporate.

      God bless the Karen!

      1. Worship a people group much? Many of them have more of a Christian culture than actual faith. Persecuted or not they are prone to the same mishaps and pride that we all are.

  13. “This is not Christianity. I don’t know what this is.”

    It is an appalling form of pride, as well as a blatant rebellion that tells God that the help He sent isn’t suitable. The worst part of listening to this is the memory that I was there once. And that so many of my old friends, acquaintances, and even some family are still there.

  15. I’d take food from a homosexual transgender atheist prostitute if they offered it to my starving persecuted family. In a heartbeat. No compromise in taking care of your family.

    That guy is a MORON.

    1. Now I’m wondering how many homosexual-trangendered-atheist-prostitutes are out there, and hope most of them are in a position to help. 😉

    2. I’m still wondering where in this guy’s Bible it says not to accept help from a non-Christian, let alone from another Christian whose program isn’t exactly like yours.

  17. My old fundie church had a bunch of old broken down buses that were not road safe at all. Another (compromising) church in the area was willing to donate a nicely used bus for us to use. They rejected it under the same saying. “They would rather die in a baptist bus, than to be found driving down the road in a compromiser’s bus.”

  18. This is sick. Fundamentalism truly is a disease. It distorts your reasoning abilities and perception of reality. What’s more, it is anti-grace.

    I sat in a fundy church yesterday and prayed throughout the service: Lord deliver me from your Christless followers.

  19. “I’d rather starve a Baptist then die a compromiser.”
    This brand of (non)theology is contemptibly stupid and morally pathetic.

    Does anyone need more proof that Baptists and the IFB in particular are a cult?

    How can such ignorance be allowed to occupy the pulpit? *sigh* I know, I know… I was once an unthinking sheep who would have Hey-Men‘d this crap. This is classic manipulation. Hear the pathos in his voice, see his body language, and watch his appeal to authority. This is a prime example of the religious con that is being played out in the pulpits of America. Jesus Christ is nowhere to be seen in these lies and cultlike manipulations. No, this is not Christianity.

    The Lord Rebuke such as these.

    2. I would like to thank george for the, “starve a Baptist “then” die a compromiser…”

      so if you starve as a Baptist then you’ll die as a compromiser? And since we know that Baptists don’t starve (for anything other than common sense) we know they will not die as compromisers. Right george?

  20. This heretic seems to be promoting the idea that the Burmese Bible should be based on the KJV. These IFB heretics actually go to other countries and try to create new Bible “translations” based on the KJV. And the end product is extremely poor.

    This fat pharisee would never endure the oppression and persecution that the Burmese Christians have. He’d give in in a heartbeat. May God save the third world Christians from American heretics like the IFB and the prosperity preachers.

    1. Funny you should mention the Burmese Bible. Here’s a random fact: The most common translation used is one translated by Adoniram Judson, the cool dude from the 17th century, and it has an English page of dedication to him. I personally don’t think he would have wanted a page dedicated to him, but he’s dead and as such has no say in the matter.

  21. Another fundie urban legend. I heard similar stories about fundies refusing help from other non-fundies. One story I heard many times was about a fundie church that burned down, its members later rejecting help from the local Catholic Church.

    But Fundies are more than happy when they get their first social security check

  22. I’m wondering how this guy squares what he says with this:
    I Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel

    I do not understand how refusing God’s provision from another Christian group is a biblical or even wise.
    Like many others here I question the veracity of the story. One fundamentalist trait that has always bugged me is the use of untraceable and undocumented stories in preaching. ( side note my Old IFB pastor in VT very carefully documented most of his illustrations to avoid said pitfall)

    1. When the stories can be documented, they often trace back to somebody you wouldn’t want to let across your threshold. My favorite is “Breaking the Lamb’s Leg,” which first appears in a sermon by Branham. Anybody who hasn’t heard of this creepo, be warned before you Google him: Trying to get to the bottom of his particular brand of fractally self-serving and nasty-minded evil can eat your whole afternoon.

      Then there’s the way that relatively mundane stories get adjusted as they are retold. Like the one about those kids who played the Dungeons and the Dragons and committed suicide in a steam tunnel that one time. No, *some kids* played *a fantasy role playing game* in *a college steam tunnel,* possibly because the rec room was already in use, and sometime *later,* a young man who at one time had played D&D committed suicide. (Google “The Pulling Report Michael Stackpole” for more info if desired.) But it’s more dramatic to talk about a whole group of crazed teenagers killing themselves in the shadows of the steam tunnels over their Player’s Handbooks and DMG.

      A lot of the stories, however, turn out to be urban legends, the kind of thing that people make up and pass around because they want support for their beliefs and pesky old reality keeps not cooperating. Like this one. I am willing to bet a very large pan of homemade double chocolate brownies that if we had the money to send a fact finder to Myanmar, this incident would turn out to be as real as the Mexican Pet.

      1. Well said Jenny Islander. I remember the Dungeons and Dragons story as a youngster and we made fun of the speakers who told it because D & D had long since been cool or a current game. 😆
        When I was in youth group the top urban legends were-
        #1 A kid (raised in the right church, in the right youth group, yadda, yadda) went to a dance club to “see what it was all about” when he suddenly felt a sharp pierce in his arm. He turned to the side to see someone pulling a needle out of his arm that read, “Welcome to the world of AIDS!”
        #2 Another kid with the same godly upbringing went to Vegas. Decided to go to a dance club and tried alcohol when the next thing he knew he woke up in a tub of ice with a phone next to him & a note that read, “Don’t get out of the tub. Call the police.” When he called the police they told him, “Don’t move sir, you’ve just had your kidneys harvested. We’re on our way.” 🙄 😆 🙄 😆
        Ohh how I LOVE to retell these stories to my friends and they can’t believe people actually spin this crap. Hilarious. But, so sad. I’ve been to Vegas & even “dance clubs” in my day. No one ever harvested my organs or injected me with AIDS-infected blood. 🙄

        1. “No one ever harvested my organs or injected me with AIDS-infected blood.”

          So did you get your money back? 😛

  23. Right, because Matthew 10:10-14 is not in the authorized KING JAMES BIBLE!!! :mrgreen: (extreme sarcasm)

  24. According to the Bible Society of Burma(Myanmar) there are 6 translations of Scripture available to the Burmese people. Adoniram Judson completed the first translation in 1834. Ironically, none of them are based on the KJV.

    Having been to Burma and many other war ravaged nations many times with international aid, I would like go out on a limb and say this guy is full of crap but I can’t. People who are hungry and thirsty don’t care where their food is coming from. However, their well fed dictators/leaders/spiritual advisers will often pull the “we don’t need your help” card.

    Sadly it happens all to often. And it’s guys like this that allow it to happen by propping these false prophets up as Godly heroes of the faith.

    1. How many Burmese Bible translations there are depends partly on your definition of “Burmese.” A number of different languages are spoken by the various ethnic groups of Burma/Myanmar and those who have gone into exile. The Bamar are the majority group, amounting to perhaps two-thirds of Burma’s total population (bearing in mind that the last comprehensive census of Burma was in 1931).

      Patterson speaks here of the Karen/Kayin people, one of the minority ethnic groups of Burma (and neighboring Thailand). About 7% of the Burmese people are Karen, by one estimate. Different Karen communities speak various dialects within any of three mutually unintelligible language branches (Sgaw, Pwo, and Pa’o). Most Karen are Buddhist and/or animist. A minority (15%, by one estimate) are Christians. Christian Karens include Catholics, Seventh-Day Adventists, and some other Protestant denominations. So the Baptist Karen are a minority (Baptists) within a minority (Christians) within a minority (Karen people) within Burma.

  25. Clicked on the church site which is a total mess, couldn’t even find out where the church is located beyond Cumberland. Wonder if it is in Maryland? When I saw the name I thought it might be part of the crazy group from New Jersey.

      1. Looks like it’s located in Corriganville, MD which is just north of Cumberland, MD. This guy in the video isn’t the pastor; he must have been a guest speaker.

        1. I have been to towns like this in western Maryland. There are some beautiful old houses, churches and commercial down town areas. The problem is the area is dying. The small factory and mining jobs are gone forever. No business is going to move to these places, they are victims of their geography and an undereducated population.
          Solid Church Independent Baptist Church occupies a place the once housed a bar. Probably proof the area is losing population.
          I was once in Grantsville, Maryland; the town had around 10 churches, but no libraries, bookstores or any place one could be exposed to the arts. The few young people I met there told me they couldn’t wait to move somewhere else. Those that would stay would probably go to churches like Solid Rock.

        2. I live in one of “those towns” less than an hour from this church. While what you say is true, two of the main contributing factors are politics and mismanaged resources.

          And sadly, the number of under-educated people in our country is growing regardless of geographical location.

          Amazingly, there are a few people here with a college education and all their teeth. 🙄

        3. I recognize this guy as one of the missionaries my church supported when I was growing up. I used to know all our missionaries and faithfully read their letters and actually write to some of them pretty regularly.

        4. This is MY church! Lol. Imagine my surprise when scrolling through here and THAT video came up. I was there that day, sitting in the second row. I remember when he said that and thinking, “Is this guy for real?” I know our church is fundy. I won’t try to deny it. I went to WCBC for a year, and that really soured me on all things Babptist. But I PROMISE you, we have a great pastor. He’s very well educated (which you can tell by talking to him, but he’s earned his degrees, they aren’t honorary). I’m not as conservative as my church, obviously, since I have this site bookmarked, but I don’t know that I’ve ever had a pastor care for me as much as Pastor John. Is Solid Rock fundy? Most definitely. But I can assure you, this is not a regular representation of what is said at out pulpit.

        5. You say your pastor is an educated and caring man. I’m glad to hear it. So here’s the question: did your pastor or anybody else in your church call this speaker on what he said?

          Did your pastor get up the next service and say “I apologize for letting that man get up here and say such terrible things. I’m responsible and we really can do better than that.”

          Silence gives consent. That’s one of the core problems in fundamentalism. Everybody claims that their church isn’t crazy but the other crazy churches/pastors/missionaries/evangelists/tract salesmen in their camp somehow manage to get a free pass to do what they want. These things ought not so to be.

        6. @ Darrell – I cede your point. Someone probably should have said something. But at the same time, I can also understand how saying can cause an awkward position. I guess there are no easy answers.

    3. Could you tell me more about the crazies in Jersey? I know that it’s a “family-run” operation, but little else.

      1. When my kids were in college they worked at a Christian Camp that did a rental week for these churches (I think it is two or three churches father and sons). Well the camp staff were shorts and ladies in pants etc and my daughter got witnessed to several times as they were suspected to not be saved because of how she dressed. The staff would compare the tracts they received during off time. In the evening they would scream till the wee hours. The moG would walk around with his posse. Here is the website. http://solidrockbaptist.org/index.html

  26. Wit just a durned minute. I have heard this exact same story before. Except I think it was Africa, not Burma. And, just like the first time I heard it, I laughed out loud at the sheer audacity. Not too many folks punt stupidity and foolishness around as a point of pride.

  27. 1 Kings 17:6

    “And the ravens brought him bread and flesh in the morning, and bread and flesh in the evening.”

    “But Elijah saith unto the raven, ‘Art thou an independent, fundamental, bible-believing, separated, soul-winning, King James only, storehouse tithing, short haired, three-times-a-week-church-attending Baptist raven?'”

    3. And I present to Stan this statue of King James for SFL comment of the day…………..WILD APPlAUSE………speech, speech, speech…. 😆

  28. I believe my former pastor to be a very greedy man…IMHO he would take a donation from ANYONE for his never-ending building programs. I do have some proof of this, as he has once applied for and received a past sabbatical award from a very liberal organization.

    However, IIRC he also strongly believes IFB missionaries should never accept money from non-IFB, and IFB missionaries could get into trouble if it were to be discovered they accepted SBC money, for example.

    I bet outlining all their income sources is on one of those famous missionary questionaires. 🙄

    There is loads of hypocrisy in the IFB.

    1. If your former pastor is of a large church in So-Cal, he really does have more unending projects than Caltrans.

  29. Darrell, here’s an idea for your next “Friday (or Monday) Challenge”:

    Write a unit for the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Survival Manual.

    I’ll start:

    Foraging: If you are lost in the wilderness, do not eat any fruits or nuts from trees that may have been planted by people who aren’t KJVO Baptists. Such food could poison you, or, worse, make you a Liberal.

    Boat safety: If someone falls overboard, present to him or her the Plan of Salvation, and have the victim repeat the Sinner’s Prayer, just in case he/she wasn’t properly saved before. Then, if person overboard is still alive, throw a flotation device attached to a rope.

    If you should fall overboard and someone tries to haul you back onboard, first quiz the helper about his/her* Bible version, standards, and soteriology. If they don’t measure up, refuse aid and try to swim to shore. Better a drowned Baptist than a safe Episcopalian, hay-men?

    *Under no circumstances should you let a person of the opposite sex pull you back into the boat. That could provoke ungodly lusts in one or both of you, and besides, people might think you’re dancing.

  30. My Baptist college professor once told us that it’s okay to cooperate with other denominations for a good cause, but be careful not to let it go farther than that. Having grown up in a small town where everyone came together to help regardless of church allegiances, I found it shocking that anyone might think that not okay.

    Why must they treat other members of the body of Christ like they’re diseased? Nevermind, I can guess. They don’t consider other denominations part of the body of Christ.

  31. This relly happend it was Adirom Juddson who was a grate IFB preecher in the 1800s from time of DL Moody and RA Tory and other grate men. He stopped by India on his way to help that brother fite the good fite aganst the Calevanst and then saled on to Berma were he translated the KJB into the native tong of the heethens there. Wile he was dong the work the librales came aganst him and his wife starved becuse women are the weeker sex and she culdnt handle it. Plus Dr Juddson was probably used to fasting alot so that helped too. There arent many in this day and age that wont bow the knee to Bale but bless Brother Patterson for taking a strong stand against sin and wrong.

      1. Mrs. Rose you must be a librale femnist that wares pants and probly voted for Brack Obama. I this relly happened becuse my preecher lerned to preech under a man that was a missonry kid in Berma with Adrom Juddson. What we need in this contry are more preechers that are willing to stand up for the KJB and more girls that are willing to merry preecher boys and be there helpmeat like Mrs Juddson was for Brother Adonrom. I know how hard it is becuse Im single and cant find any women these days that would be willing to starve for the KJB. Im hopin thats about to change tho becuse I got a good job at walmar for the holidays and Im hoping one of the girls in colledge and carere class will take intrest in me over the brake when she comes back form Bible school now that I have a good job.

        Sinserly,

        Bro Dr Phil Armenik

  33. “30 And Jesus answering said , A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment , and wounded him, and departed , leaving him half dead . 31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side . 32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side . 33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed , came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, 34 And went to him, and would have bound up his wounds. 35 The man, however, said, “I’d rather die in a ditch than accept the help of a Samaritan!” 36 The Samaritan, hearing this, said, “Fine, whatever. Die, you ungrateful bastard.””

    That’s how it goes, right?

    1. Absolutely, Lizard.

      The corollary, as modeled by the Priest and the Levite, is that you should let your neighbor die in a ditch rather than get your hands dirty.

    3. Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria?

      And Jesus answered, WHAT? Thou art a Samaritan? I thought thou wert an independent Baptist! No thank you then. I will just go thirsty lest I be tainted by compromise!

  34. If my children or my congregation were starving I would take food from an atheist and praise God for it.

  35. “I’d rather starve a Baptist than die a compromiser.”

    That awkward moment when you have to make up a witty response by an imaginary Burmese pastor and it comes out all incoherent-like.

    1. You’re right, Josh. Until I saw your comment, I didn’t notice the phrasing at the end of the clip (I was too distracted by the overall absurdity of the story), but I played it again, and he does say “Rather starve a Baptist than die a compromiser.” “I’d rather starve than die”???

      When you blow the punchline, it tends to wreck the whole anecdote.

  36. This 57 second video hits a lot of my sore points. In less than a minute he manages to work in several of what I call Myth Markers:

    1. The people involved are poor and on the other side of the world therefor they are better than you. (The inverse of this makes frequent appearance too)

    2. The group speaks with one mind and that mind belongs to a certain person who for some reason is nameless. The pastor? We are to believe that any Baptist group has only one pastor?

    3. It wouldn’t pass the laugh test if it were located in the US so it has to be overseas somewhere. If I were starving to death and my ostensible spiritual leader refused food for me on my behalf. I would A. Go get the food anyway and B. punch him in the kidneys. And not necessarily in that order.

    4. Romanticizing of people who are different from you. They are somehow purer and more spiritual and closer to God. I consider it hilarious that Christians have their own version of the ludicrous “Noble Savage” nonsense.

    5. Personally, I have never met a group of Baptists who could agree on anything at all much less all agree to turn down food.

    This guy really buried the needle on my BS-o-meter.

  37. We are assuming that we understand the meaning of the the punchline. Have we not considered that the alleged pastor was just a hipster attempting some postmodern absurd humor when he said “I had rather starve a Baptist than dye a compromiser”?

  38. It’s not a defense of this bozo, but there are times I can see why someone would turn down help, even much-needed help, because 1. there’s often a string or three attached, ie “I’ll give you food IF you admit you’re a hopeless sinner and pledge to come to our church from now on!” and/or 2. the giver will never ever let you forgot it, ie “How can you say you can’t pledge to our new building fund? Remember when your car broke down three years, four months and nineteen days ago, and I gave you a lift? Remember? Remember?” 😡 👿
    No doubt this guy would attach these meanings to any help he doles out.

  39. My mouth is still hanging open. I cannot believe that, but then again, not surprised. How ignorant.

  41. At my Fundy U, during the Christian Education class, which was training for Christian workers, the president warned the Missions majors about the dangers of associating with non-like-minded people while on the field. “If you wouldn’t have coffee with a Southern Baptist here in the states, why would you fellowship with him in Africa? Why should you compromise your standards of separation just because you are in a remote location where no one else speaks your language? It’s a ploy of the devil.”

    1. I mean, it’s not like Jesus ate with the prostitutes and tax collectors, after all.

      Seriously, where do they get the notion that avoiding “fellowship” with people who believe (even slightly) differently is how they’ll be led to the correct path? (Never mind trying to convert someone who isn’t Christian at all.) Isn’t it intuitively logical that you can’t get someone to listen to you until you’ve earned their trust and respect? Isn’t it more a “ploy of the devil” to make your brand of Christianity so unappealing that no one will accept it, and possibly tar all forms of Christianity with the same brush? How many people reject Christianity totally, due to exposure to the excesses of Baptists alone?

      It seems to me the real issue that when you have “fellowship” with the wrong people, you might discover that they’re actually just people, not insane satan-worshipping monsters, and that people can be good, kind, and decent without following all the rules you’ve been taught to follow…so then, you must ask, what purpose do all these rules serve?

      1. It is basically fear. Fear that someone else will be unable to discern, be beguiled and compromised.

        Because at the root, they are a performance based faith system, they know they are ok because their confidence is in their Pharisaical standards, but they worry about everyone else.

        It is a lack of confidence of the Spirit of God in people of God who love the Word of God. They must be protected from the ‘slippery slope’ of compromise. And the only way to avoid the slope is to build a man ordained hedge about it and reinforce it by ‘mything it up’ like this guy or transferring their fear for you into you. To make you lose confidence in your ability to discern truth from error and trust in God’s ability to help you in all situations.

        “Perfect love casts out all fear” for Christians. While these seems to promote “Perfect fear casts out all compromise along with love, decency, common sense, personal accountability, discernment and the Holy Spirit.”

    2. Why won’t the President have coffee with Southern Baptists? Is he afraid Southern Baptist-ism is contagious?

      Anyhow, I don’t see how a missionary could have any effect by refusing to fellowship with anyone who doesn’t believe all the same things. That would make you a hermit, not a missionary.

  42. Reminded of a sermon illustration from days gone by…

    Widow lady was praying for food. Godless man in the community overheard, bought a bag of groceries, and left it at her doorstep. She finds it, and begins praising the Lord.

    He jumps out, and says, “God, didn’t send you those groceries. I did.”

    She praises the Lord louder. “God sent me groceries, and He used Satan to do it.”

    1. I remember a joke along those lines.
      A great flood is coming. A woman is warned her house is in the flood zone. Her son drives by and says, “Mom, get in the car!”, and she says, “No, the Lord will provide!”

      As the waters rise higher, she has to retreat to the second story. A rescue boat comes by, and asks her to get it, and she say, “No, the Lord will provide!”

      Finally, she has to get on the roof. A helicopter comes by, and, once again, she says, “No, the Lord will provide!”

      She drowns, of course. When she gets to heaven, she is angry! She demands to talk to God right away. She says, “Lord, I had faith in you, but I drowned! Why didn’t you help me?”

      God says, “For My sake, woman, I sent you a car, a boat, and a helicopter!”

  43. I can’t imagine having my children starve and then having the arrogance to refuse help from another Christian organization simply because they weren’t in lock step with my beliefs.

    Many years ago when an earthquake leveled the city of Kobe, Japan, the Japanese government refused offered help from other countries (including help from US bases in their home islands) because they were not Japanese. And many Japanese died in the wreckage of Kobe.

    Japan learned their lesson. When that quake and tsunami hit a year or two ago, they opened up to outside aid.

    Japan learned their lesson from Kobe. Can these guys?

    1. According to msnbc, ninety countries offered the US help after Katrina struck New Orleans and much of the Gulf Coast. We turned them down. We all know how well that worked out. I’m not sure how much we’ve learned since then.

      1. Actually, Canada helped. There was some form of help center, and some of the people put up a Canadian flag outside it. Then some of the the locals got antsy because of a “Furrin flag” (need I say they were of the white, redneck kind?).

        1. Good to know. So many countries offered to help and were turned away, no matter how much we needed all the help we could get. I hope we’ve gotten over being prideful idiots, but I doubt it.

  44. By the size of this preacher I would say he is a compromiser?

    Seriously, Jesus himself used the example of a kind stranger to tell us how to love one another!!! The Good Samaritian’s beliefs did not line up with the guy in the ditch!

    1. Oh wait that is in the New Testament. What am I thinking we have to stay in the old testament so we avoid all those Jesus teachings because they totally mess up OUR STANDARDS!

    2. Something I didn’t notice until it was pointed out to me is that Jesus tells the “Good Samaritan” story from the point of view of the robbed and beaten man (a Jew, like Jesus’ audience), not from the point of view of the Samaritan (a pariah to the Jews) who helped him. So I think one of the messages in this parable is exactly that help is going to come from people we don’t think have all the right credentials and who may not believe all the correct doctrines, and that those people are doing God’s work more than the “holy” people (the priest and Levite who kept walking) are doing.

        1. If you told the story with the wounded man as a contemporary American, the helping man would probably be a Muslim extremist, or perhaps a Moonie.

        2. More likely a “Messican” whose family had lived in the same town in New Mexico, Colorado, or California for hundreds of years. A Cathlick Messican.

        4. Oops, I mean Jenny. I was just watching a movie with Jenni Blong (an actress), who spells her name that way.

        5. Don’t be silly, there’s no Messicans in Texas! George Dubya Bush is from Texas. You can see him there any day walkin tall in his flight suit. The whole state was founded by white cowboys, like the Marlboro Man, didn’t you know that? White cowboys and white oil men as far as the eye can see. /tea party nitwit

  45. I remember an almost opposite story told by our missionary to Africa. A group of nuns came to his door and told him that they had run out of the Gospel of John and asked if he had any. So…….he gave them a supply and explained to us that he didn’t see how there could be any damage done if the pure word of God was being distributed–even if it were by those wretched Catholics. I wish the whole story had a happy ending, but unfortunately he was later voted off our list of supporting missionaries for sexually abusing his own daughter. 😥

  46. The irony of an obese man talking about people refusing food on the strength of their convictions is almost too much. Don’t think he’s refused much food in his days, no matter what comprimising, godless wretches fried it up for him.

    1. Actually I’m pretty sure that’s “compromising”, but I’m too lazy to look it up. Apparently the word is not in my dictionary 😉

  47. This is just more proof that Christian non-fundies are almost always nicer, happier, more charitable, and God-like people.

    Fundies are spending too much time on their own agendas to make sure the wise men have the right colored skin and are the right distance away from the Nativity Scenes around town and that everyone knows that the letters in Santa’s name all jumbled around spell Satan. Heaven forbid they actually “help” someone in need.

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