167 thoughts on “Layoffs”

    1. You are! Congrats.
      Your prize is a butt cushion to fall back on when you get the boot from Hyles-Anderson.

        1. Until last year, my wife worked for a Fundy organization. (Not our first choice, but we were hurting enough financially that she took the job.) In July 2011, they called all their employees in for a prayer meeting and told them, “One-fifth of you will be losing your jobs today. You’ll know who you are when you get the call.”

          She was among those sacked. She asked about applying for unemployment. No one would give her any information, even to tell her whether she qualified. They seemed offended that she asked. We tracked down the application process and applied. Her application was denied. Turns out in this state, nonprofits have the option to not pay into the unemployment insurance fund that all other employers are required to pay into, and they had been exploiting this loophole. If they had been paying, and many nonprofits do, she would have qualified for unemployment.

        2. That truly sucks PapaBear. Yet another “dirty little secret” hidden in the details of a fundy organization. But I am sure your wife would be labeled as “bitter” for bringing a detail like that to light.
          I hope things are better for you both now.

        3. @ Teddy-ball-game: It has been a long, hard climb, and there have been setbacks, but our financial situation is slowly improving. The best thing that came out of this was that it cut our last tie to Fundyville. We were already in a non-Fundy church, but when you need a job, and all your connections are Fundy, that’s often where you end up working. Yes, some of her former co-workers have called her bitter. I have some family members who still work there, and they insist that the downsizing was necessary and was done fairly. That’s all easy to say when you weren’t the one sacrificed for the organization. But the organization is still in decline. I don’t expect it to survive the next five years. Even they are starting to realize that their jobs may not be there much longer.

        4. I don’t think that the church or school should be blamed for not opting out of unemployment insurance; they aren’t really trying to cause problems for the employees – it is just a matter of cutting costs as much as they can to make the school affordable to lower-income parents who still want to put their children in a Christian school.

          Of course, if the pastor is living fine at the expense of the congregation (a la Tom Neal), then it is quite wicked. But I have known small churches where the pastor must work or barely makes a living, and often goes without.

        5. Dear Papa Bear:

          All the best on your new situation. I hope it goes well for you!

          On another note, it seems rather pathetic when despite the chiseling at every corner, you still can’t make it. I just can’t shake that nasty question, ‘WHERE’S THE SLUSH FUND!!!’

          Christian Socialist

        7. @ Guilt Ridden: Yes, they followed the letter of the law. And I would not have been angry if they’d been up front about it. If, when she was hired, they told her, “We are exempt from paying into the unemployment fund, so if we ever let you go, you will be unable to collect unemployment,” or if the law were written such that nonprofits were not allowed to pay into it, I would not object. As it is, the majority of nonprofits here DO pay into the fund, this loophole is not generally known, and despite my experience with other fundy organizations in the area, they are the first I’ve heard of exploiting it. When this happened, everyone we knew, even those who worked for other nonprofits, said, “Well, at least you can collect unemployment.”

          I could even understand them letting people go with a “sucks to be you” and at least answering the question if someone asked. I have seen other employers go through mass layoffs, and they always provide forms and instructions for applying for unemployment. Even when they let 20% of their staff go (and discharged even more of them in the following months) they pretended not to know the answer to the question, “Can I apply for unemployment,” and were offended that anyone asked. They refused to answer the question. They even refused to find the answer that they claimed not to know. The only way we were able to find out that they hadn’t paid in was from the unemployment office, and they wouldn’t tell us until after we’d completed a lengthy application process.

          This is not a school, it’s a residential care facility. For the past 25 years or more, whenever they aren’t meeting expenses, they start a building program, and hire more representatives to go out begging money from churches. When I worked there, we were frequently asked (required) to work unpaid overtime. Not straight time, UNPAID overtime. Although it’s understood (as in many fundy organizations) that you don’t report them when they break the law because they are doing GOD’s work, they have been caught violating labor laws numerous times.

          At times, they didn’t make payroll even for the hours they allowed people to record, but they never slowed down their building program. Then the president would come to prayer meeting (which we were required to attend) and brag about all the millionaires he was meeting, and ask us to pray that he would meet a billionaire. I thought something was wrong with this, but no one would believe me. Turns out the president was skimming money. Even when they cut their staff by 20% in one day, they did not halt construction on the new dormitories, despite the fact that they have more than enough empty beds already.

          I never really expected them to take care of us, and I understand that they have made promises they are now unable to keep. We were vulnerable, but others were hurt more. Years of mismanagement have led to the present situation, and the institution is collapsing in a big, ugly mess. With the problems I could see, I should have known (and did suspect) there were more problems I couldn’t see. We were in a bad place financially when she took the job, and in a worse place when it ended. Since then, we have struggled, but we’ve learned not to work for people who feel they are above the law.

        8. P.S. The president who was skimming had a large, well-furnished house in a nice neighborhood, and the board bought him a new Volvo with custom seats every year. He was eventually caught, and dismissed as quietly as possible. After he threatened to kill his wife, she divorced him, and the board tired to collect the money he embezzled from her.

          The current president has not done anything that bad, but he still has a much higher standard of living than anyone who works for him can aspire to, and probably will until the place goes bankrupt.

        9. @Papa Bear: Absolutely, it should have been disclosed when they were hired. I know that many fundamentalist churches overpay their “MOG” and underpay teachers and staff and expect them to work many unpaid hours, and that is wrong and a shame, and is an affront to God. I’ve been in churches where the people were poor and the pastor was living better than the richest men in the church, whereas the staff and teachers were not even paid a living wage.

          All I was saying is that I have also been in churches struggling financially, and need to do all they can to cut costs.

          The “build, build, build while we suck the people dry” attitude is an abomination to the Lord God, I believe.

        10. Yup, that happened to my mom as well. She was a teacher at a fundy school for years, but they didn’t pay into unemployment insurance. When they closed the school she was out of a job, and had no unemployment insurance either. Nevermind that the pastor (and his father who was pastor before him) had been caught embezzling millions from the church and squeezing every penny out of the budgets because they were always complaining about not having any money…

    1. And by that I mean, they are trying to keep this PR spin private by ensuring that you have to have the link to see the video. So I want it to go viral.

    1. thanks. it was purely by accident. ^^ I’m special and now I’m gonna sing the ah special music ah.

  7. “There is no truth to the rumor that we are considering subletting the facilities to Robert Schuler since he lost his joint to the Whore of Babylon. …but now that I think about it…”

    1. Don’t forget about that little voice crack towards the end of video when he talks about the budget – that budget must be bad.

  9. “Many good people who have given most if not all of their lives to this ministry have been let go. So if any of you know of any ministry opportunities…say for unaccredited professors, unlicensed bus drivers, or if you know of anyone looking for a really good deal on some school supplies, office furniture or copy machines, give me a jingle. Plus, just in time for Christmas, everything in the campus bookstore is reduced. Books by our most recent disgraced former pastor, (the second one, not the first one) are 75% off. Plus we’ll throw in the classic “Polishing the Shaft” video with each purchase.

    3. I feel sorry for the students at HAC who are having to go through the situation. A friend’s two kids go there.

  10. Tell me you didn’t see this coming, and I’ve got a bridge I’d like to sell you.

    To all the employees who have just been laid off:
    This is your chance to escape! Run! Run like the wind!

      1. Absolutely– at least, by the same standard they used to claim the mandate of heaven– that of prospering in this world.

    3. You forget the rules of fundamentalist prosperity.
      Rule #1. If we are in a time of prosperity, it is because God is blessing us for our high moral standard.
      Rule #2. If we are going through a time of financial strain, it is because the world is persecuting us for our high moral standard.
      Rule #3. Financial strain is not from the pastor/administrator’s mismanagement of funds. No really, it isn’t.
      Rule #4. Hiring a forensic accountant to look into the pastor’s management of funds is expensive and is a waste of the resources God has given to us, amen?

  13. Right now sermons for tomorrow are being rewritten using this as a foil. I hope the LDS buys FBCH lock stock and barrel

      2. There are big differences–
        For one thing, Kennedy was not an actual member of the religious hierarchy of the Roman Catholic church; he was just an ordinary member, and not a very faithful one at that.

        I would like to hear Romney state publicly sometime if he really believes, for example, that he will someday be the God of his own planet, or that dark-skinned people are under a divine curse (both core doctrines of the LDS), or that his magic underwear protects him from all harm, or if he supports posthumous conversion of non-Mormons.

        But it’s off the subject for this post. I’m a little sorry I mentioned it.

  14. That was impressive. He didn’t refer to He Who Must Not Be Named at all, except in that Hyles-Anderson was getting a new pastor, and he made no reference to any reasons for the lay-offs except to note financial troubles that apparently arrived like a bolt from the blue. He just poured a vat of warm syrup over the whole reeking mess.

    1. “Like a bolt from the blue”?

      🙁 So sad that they couldn’t see the idolatry and arrogance that was so obvious to anyone outside the church.

    2. “He who must not be named” – that is great! (I second the motion 🙂 )

      Seriously, boiled down, I read this as:

      “Our former, indicted pastor ran up a huge debt that we were too cowardly to call him on. We are desperately trying to get our financial house in order, in the hopes that we can attract someone to the pastor position to help us over the scandal-ridden past.”

    3. I think I’ll run and ad in the Local Hammond fish wrap:

      Have Whitewash: Will Travel

      Bet I could get an interview.

  15. I’m guessing that we will soon find out that proper payments into state and federal unemployment funds have not been made in quite some time and these poor saps will be even further up Fundie river without a paddle

    1. file for unemployment~ that would be unfair to put an additional burden on the church- right???
      I’m sure they were prewarned that it would be a lack of faith and deny the opportunity for God to provide in time of need!
      YUCK!

    2. As someone pointed out, in many states, churches and nonprofits are exempt from paying into unemployment insurance programs– one of countless ways nonprofits shaft their employees. I speak as someone who has been a laid-off employee of a nonprofit.

  16. Would love to see someone full of grace be tapped to fill the pulpit at 1st Baptist, and a “Grace Awakening” take place there in Hammond and spread over into the H/A!

    God is able!

  17. This is just too sad. All these people who got caught in this system, not knowing any better, and now they are casualties of that same system. Clearly, they are going to be left with their backsides flapping in the breeze, not only by the HAC/FBCH system, but by the rest of the IFB as well. Knowing the people at HAC, many of the ones who are probably going to be sacrificed are not the predators, but rather the prey. These are the idealists who, like me, thought we could help turn the world upside down for Christ. Now they are learning how this system really treats those who can no longer advance the objectives of the church/college/system.
    My heart really goes out to them, especially in this economy.
    There, but for the grace of God and a few secular degrees, go I.

  18. So, does this mean that while Jack Schaap was still at the helm, even though the ship was sinking financially, they continued to have their faith in him? Meaning that now he’s IN JAIL, they have possibly refocused their eyes to God and in all reality need to take proper actions, now, that really should have taken place long ago!

    Do you guys find yourselves wondering what is running through Jack’s head as he sits idle in a jail cell now? Now that so many lives have been effected by his fleshly desires, disgrace that he is, how do you envision the discussions quietly spoken in the homes of these misguided fundamentalists? I wonder… Do tell! Or do you think they still “love their pastor”, a testament to their loyalty, as many of them were quoting for the media when this all broke out!?!

    ~~~Heart

    1. Heart,
      That’s the sad thing about fundamentalism. This reflection and quiet discussion that you envision does not happen in a lot of homes. “The Scandal” immediately becomes one more thing that you never talk about because it might hurt the cause of Christ. Besides that, you are so busy with the duties of the church that you don’t have time to think or discuss anything deeply – it’s go, go, go all the time. You only have time for these discussions when your church has turned on you for whatever reason and you are on the outside. That’s when a lot of us start asking the hard questions, really thinking, and eventually leave.
      If people had these thoughts and discussions, you wouldn’t have had the Schaap situation – they would have learned during the Hyles reign that this stuff doesn’t fly. Hopefully, this Schaap situation will change the way things happen in the IFB, but most likely, it will get swept under the rug and business as usual will resume………..until the next time.
      By the way, great discussion-prompting question! You really struck a chord with me and made me think.

      1. That is perhaps THE problem in fundamentalism. They refuse to acknowledge that there is anything wrong. And if anyone dares to bring up a complaint, an objection, even a differing opinion, they are labeled as a “gossip” a “sewer of discord” “bitter” or someone who has “lost sight of the main thing.”

        Just take the latest blog post by Dr. Paul Chappell as an example of what is wrong with fundamentalism:

        http://www.paulchappell.com/2012/10/13/what-too-many-christians-have-forgotten/#more-5598

        Beneath the innocent message of the need for evangelism lies the subtle message of “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, just go soulwinning” that is bringing about the slow ruin of many individuals, families, and ministries.

      2. formerHACgirl, you have some penetrating insights. I show one of my communication classes a documentary on Jim Jones and the People’s Temple cult. They say some of the same things–they were so busy and exhausted with the “work of the church” that they never spoke up to the abuses they saw. Also, they all stayed silent for fear of being ratted out by other church members for hurting the cause of the church.

        2. A few weeks back here, a couple of us were discussing the remarkable similarities, in style, biography, and strategies, of Jim Jones and Jack Hyles. I don’t remember which post we were commenting on– otherwise I would make a link to it.

        3. Clara English, sorry it took me a few days to see your question. You can find the documentary in its entirety on youtube. It’s called “Jonestown: The Life & Death of People’s Temple.”

  19. that was creepy. He points at the camera and says something like, oh hey, if you know of any positions for these people….ok??? so weird and so little emotion used. Just sad

  20. Follow the chain of responsibility here:
    Hyles trained these people for decades to be loyal and obedient to the MoG. He dies, hands off a debt-free organization to Schaap, who polishes his shaft all over the church – all the while Lapina and Mason, et al, stood by nodding and amening. Now Schapp got caught raping a kid and suddenly they’re making hard choices to keep focused on God?
    No, Mr. Mason. You did this. YOU. FAILED.
    No, Mr. Lapina. YOU. FAILED.
    This is all your fault. YOU chose to follow a man instead of God, YOU enabled Hyles and his son in their shenanigans, YOU ignored what was in front of you and it ended with Schaap driving your organization financially into the ground, and committing a crime against a teen.
    I feel terrible for those laid off just to months before Christmas, especially those with kids. But you know what? They joined with this man, and this organization, nodding and amening the whole way, so my sympathy is really limited to any children affected.
    But, I suspect they’ll land at various fundy offshoots like WCBC, Crown or Bob Gray’s Fundamental Emporium and Basement College.

    2. Nah, the synthetic sympathy is just put on for the camera to keep more people from fleeing the wreckage. If those tithes and offerings go elsewhere, the organization will sink even faster.

  22. The video is somewhat painful to watch. They’re putting a good face on their failure to treat people ethically. This reminds me of the mass dismissals of people loyal to Cedarholm when Bud Weniger became President of Maranatha and of the mass dismissals of faculty at Pillsbury in 1984. People at both institutions who dedicated their lives to the ministry were just swept away without even an apology or an acknowledgement of all the great things they had done for their respective schools.

    One of the jobs of top leadership is to care for those who work under them and to raise the funds so that the school can run efficiently. In the case of Hyles, Pillsbury, and Maranatha, top leadership failed. What really hurts is that the leadership maintained an extravagant lifestyle while those under them were pushed out the door and those who remained were in absolute shock. Morale was so low, and it will be low when faculty and staff perceive that management–chiefly the MOG–has no clue. Rather than try to remedy the situation, they just purge faculty for “gossip” and “backbiting,” ablivious to the reasons for the unhappiness that surrounds them.

    Fundy ministries have a bad record of treating their staff in an absolute crappy manner, and they blame the crappiness on the staff rather than their own actions and attitudes.

    1. At both Maranatha and Pillsbury those things were done because of the failure of previous administrations to operate in a manner that was fiscally sustainable – refusing to pursue alumni who failed to pay back loans, “trusting God” while spending money that was not coming in, and refusing to eliminate positions because a person was “loyal to Cedarholm” are likely some of the same reasons HAC is doing this. Besides, at MBBC in the 80’s “loyal to Cedarholm” was usually code for “since Dr. C was going senile we took advantage and tried to change the entire direction of the school” – there were many of those people who got exactly what they deserved and their removal allowed MBBC to prosper in later years by a reasonable financial and philosophical approach instead of the decline seen at Pillsbury, HAC, et. al.

      1. I heard Weniger took people who didn’t pay MBBC back to court. Do you know if this is true?

        I do know that Weniger built himself a nice house when he was there and he had a lot of toys including an Alpha Romeo.

        1. I was teaching at Maranatha when Weniger came. Before he even arrived on campus and knew what people were capable of doing, he started cleaning house. He had Youstra as his academic dean, a man who tells faculty on his first visit how there wasn’t a single faculty member under him at the BJU Academy that didn’t get into some sort of trouble. Youstra decided that Missions were not needed and got rid of a really Godly lady. There were those whom I suppose had to move on, but these were people who stood by Cedarholm when the school was first established. Even if they were no qualified for their jobs, Weniger could have found a dignified way of moving them out. There were a lot of hurt feelings. Under Weniger, there was an apparent disparity between what the administration–namely what Weniger made–and the rest of the faculty. While we were barely managing to pay our bills, Weniger buys a new car every six months and builds an elaborate chalet house before he even looks at the financial condition of the school. I could tell stories of faculty who left with broken hearts, but I don’t want to bring names into all of this. Mrs. Cedarholm took all of the changes very personally. I kept in contact with her almost up to the day that she died, and we shared a lot of information. Suffice it to say that when the 40 year anniversary book came out, I could see that it was a whitewash job. I find it depressing to see people praised in that book when I knew how horribly they were treated and eventually pushed out. Many stayed within fundy circles; I bolted and became a very happy Lutheran who can look at this mess from the outside.

    2. I was there at MBBC when Weniger remarried only a year after his wife of 25 years died of MS. He’s now divorced and so is his son and DIL who were the youth pastor at my church in IL. He was thrown under the bus when he divorced.

    3. Bob H

      You refered to the mass dismissals at PBBC.
      I was a student there at the time.
      Many of my favorite teachers were gone when I graduated in 1985.
      Some of their replacements were sub-standard.
      We(the students) never knew what happened.
      It was all very Hush-Hush.
      I’ve never heard anyone refered to it until your post.

  23. I have to say, I feel deeply saddened by the new of layoffs. My heart goes out to them. Many are following the only trail they have ever been on or been taught. I do pray that they find their rest and strength in Christ at this time and that they see some things as they are. I pray other Christians outside the Fundy Fray reach out to them and pour amazing amounts on grace on them. This is why we need Christ; because people (you and I included) fail.

    2. Since when do we check our brains at the door? No one should be blindly following *any man. They are to study and learn, not simply swallow whatever dose is shoved at them every Sunday morning, Sunday night, and Wednesday evening.

      They are going to have to relearn how to learn, how to live, and that’s where my empathy kicks in. They’ve got a long, hard road ahead of them.

    3. And the only jobs out there in this crappy economy are burger flipping minimum wage jobs.

      Good luck on finding a decent paying job!

      1. There are plenty of good jobs for physically healthy men. Try the shale gas regions of Texas, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. 19 year olds with high school educations are pulling 80k driving water trucks.

        And I’ve met a few female land agents doing OK also.

      2. Actually, things are coming up. My oldest daughter just got married, and she and her husband left NYC and came out to Seattle (I’m in Portland). The NEXT DAY after they landed here, she got a job. He got two interviews right away, and had an offer by the end of the week. Mind- they spent a lot of time in preparation before they came out, updating resumes, researching the market, and Phil arranged to get his licenses transferred to Washington state. They did not do this blindly. But several of my friends who’d been unemployed for quite awhile have recently gotten jobs, and three friends have bought houses. We have a lot of new businesses opening and storefronts long empty are filling up. I’m hopeful, and moderately optimistic about the economy.

        1. It really depends on where you live and what kind of money you need to bring in to cover your bills. I’d think that if someone were already surviving on IFB Bible college wages then they could find something somewhere, even if it’s stocking tools at Home Depot. And they’re not tied down geographically and are reasonably young and fit, there are places to go, esp. if they’re male.

          There aren’t enough jobs at a good salary for everyone who wants one, but there are jobs out there for people who have the ability and willingness to move. They might be way out in the sticks and a thousand miles from friends and family, but the jobs are there.

        2. I mean getting laid off from HAC as a 40 year old with four kids and a mortage could prove catastrophic. A 60 year old man with no job experience except Bible college work and no retirement savings really got shafted here

          Getting laid off as a 25 year old Bible teacher with a young wife and no kids and no mortgage… that’s doing them a favor.

        4. Fellow Fundy Survivors…

          Please excuse me, but by no means did I intend to pass judgement on the dialogue here.

          I was only referring to the economic status.

          Believe me… I stand right beside each and every one of you and your comments!

          When I attended HAC, all I experienced from the staff and faculty there was a self-righteous entitlement attitude from them, in which many positions were appointed via nepotism rather than adequate and earned qualifications or merit.

          They do not practice what they preach and their “sins” are indeed swept under the proverbial rug by the “keepers”, who guard and protect them, if you will, you know… All the followers who are so stupid not to question authority and be manipulated into following instructions without question, as though God approves that sort of mind control!

          I still live close to Hyles-Anderson College and I do attend the cinema and countless times I have seen male students at the movies. It pains me so much that I actually approach them and ask them if they are indeed students. Some have denied it, while red faced. Others have admitted, in complete shock, while others have confessed and apologized.

          It’s all so ridiculous! Just like someone else mentioned earlier, these people need to enter the real adult world and face the realities of life and not find false comfort within the walls of HAC or FBCH!

          We all know they have to get out there and live! God will bless their efforts! Right guys!?!?! 🙂 come on now!!

          ~~~Heart 😛

  24. So sad how these poor brothers and sisters are being so terribly persecuted as they work for the cause of Christ. First they lose their beloved Man of Gawd, then they lose many lifelong staffers, they are facing monetary crises, bad press, lawsuits and so much more.

    Screw that. It’s not persecution. It’s the result of a life time of crap choices catching up with them. I wish they’d wake up and start making good choices and get out of that den of evil.

    1. I have little sympathy…especially for HA staffers. You’re at a BIBLE COLLEGE! You should know the BIBLE!

      1. Your comment reminds me of a blog post Jeri Massi wrote recently. She said that church members shouldn’t be passive while listening to a sermon and just accept it all blindly. Instead, she encouraged them to take the Bereans’ approach of searching the Scriptures to see if what they’re taught is true. I’m not unsympathetic to those in the IFB because there is definitely a lot of mind control and fear clouding people’s judgment, but I do think each individual is responsible to follow the Word of God’s instructions regarding exercising discernment and watching out for false teachers.

        1. Your comment about Massey makes me laugh. Try discussing any of her comments concerning the Bible and see how open she is to that! She advocates a “Berean” mindset for “pastors” but she isn’t open to having anyone apply a “Berean” mindset to her own teaching.

      2. Pardon my rudeness, but if you’re not going to read my entire comment, don’t bother responding to me.

        2. PP’s comment began with her saying how sad she was about those poor persecuted staffers losing their jobs. Auntie Christ said that he didn’t pity them because as staff at a Bible college, they should have known how unBiblical the teaching there was. It sounded as if he thought that PP WAS pitying them, but her comment was actually sarcastic.

          (And that’s me butting in too! lol)

  25. I’m working on it. There are a lot of rumors and counter-rumors, so I don’t trust much if I didn’t hear it from the mouth of the person in question.

  26. Did they tape this in the supply closet? I mean, HAC isn’t exactly the prettiest college campus I’ve ever seen, but they’ve got to have a better backdrop.

  27. Follow the $$$$
    It is not the chief enablers who are losing their paid positions.

    I cannot find any sympathy for the demise of this organization. I can only pray that all the IFB institutions out there suffer the same financial meltdown. Take away the $$ and you will lose a major chunk of the profesional pulpiteers that polute the fundie pulpits throughout the land.

    What scares me is the dispersion that this meltdown will bring about. This will bring about an new infusion of Hyles throughout fundiedom. That is the saddest part of the House of Hyles implosion.

    1. Don, I agree with your sentiments. As a human being I feel empathy in my heart for any person struggling financially. However, my brain quickly reminds me about the devious behavior and false teaching that oozes from an institution such as HAC. These people who lost their jobs may very well be “good people”, but they willingly and consciously went along with and aided the furtherance thereof. How many of them made a students life hell-acious because they went along with the false teaching and over-encroaching contrived standards of their employer whom they decided to blindly follow as the man of gid?

      My optimism lies in the chance that this may jar some of those whom will suffer joblessness into freedom and out of fundystan.

    2. Still spreading calvin’s love towards those that pointed you to the Lord I see…..do you ever think before you SPEW my little chubby friend. 😆

      1. The truth hurts hungh?
        oh and by the way the IFB and it’s cult followers didn’t save me, in fact, they were not the ones who pointed me to the Lord either. So far your batting average is .000. Keep swinging though.

  29. Let him know if there’s anything he can do? I’ve got some gutters that need clearing.

    What a weird thing to say – it’s obvious he didn’t mean it.

  30. Stuart Mason in Simultaneous Translation:

    ‘For some time our ministries have been operating under an increasingly difficult financial load.’
    Translation: Fiscally, we’re screwed. It’s bad enough that now we’re going to to pretend to level with you.

    ‘The result of this load has been the layoff of many valuable staff members.’
    Translation: We’ll let others pay for our disaster. Hey, it worked for Wall Street!

    ‘These friends and co laborers have given much if not most of their lives to the success of our ministries.’
    Translation: Hard work, competence and loyalty will be rewarded.

    ‘They’re wonderful people and will be sorely missed.’
    Translation: Property is indispensable; people are not.

    ‘Drastic steps needed to be taken.’
    Translation: Did I mention that we’re fiscally screwed?

    ‘Doing so will allow us to continue to operate, and that within our means.’
    Translation: Bow to the Almighty, Invisible, Guiding Hand whose Name is ‘MARKET.’

    ‘The layoff of many valuable staff members …’
    Translation: We’re dumping our greatest asset.

    ‘I wanted to take this opportunity to make sure that you, our friends, were fully aware of the decisions being made in this regard.’
    Translation: That’s why you’re hearing about stuff after the fact.

    ‘I would like to ask that you pray for us as we proceed in the days ahead.’
    Translation: Support us not as we support our staff.

    ‘Our deacon board is in the process of choosing a pulpit committee to assist in the calling of our next pastor.’
    Translation: Firings allow us to hire a new pastor with a solid financial package. The timing of our layoffs may be curious to some.

    ‘Our troubling, financial position…’
    Translation: We ain’t out of this yet!

    ‘I would ask that you lift in prayer these good men and women.’
    Translation: No sour grapes, please! We got problems enough now!

    ‘These men and women in transition…’
    Translation: A drastic situation requires drastic action.

    ‘I’m excited about the future of Hyles-Anderson College:
    Translation: Put on a happy face!

    ‘The buses will be running.’
    Translation: Make it look normal.

    ‘Hundreds of people will know the joy of heaven.’
    Translation: You will eat, bye and bye, in that glorious land in the sky! Work and pray, live on hay, you’ll get pie In the sky when you die.

    ‘More than 100 high school students … are considering the will of God for their life.’
    Translation: Let’s say that if they’re not considering HAC, you’re not considering God’s will. Ah youth …our ticket to perpetuating the culture on which we prey.

    ‘Great things are still happening at Hyles-Anderson College.’
    Translation: Our best bet is an upbeat line that ignores reality and supports enrollment.

    Christian Socialist

    1. “‘They’re wonderful people and will be sorely missed.’
      Translation: Property is indispensable; people are not.”
      RIGHT. THERE.
      That’s it. Mr. Mason says they’re doing this so the next pastor won’t inherit a financial mess.
      My response is: Sell the new auditorium. Sell it for what owe. Sell it at a loss. It is nothing but bricks and cement. Dump it. Don’t dump people two months before Christmas.
      But there again, we have an example of their priorities. Property before people. Keep up appearances. Sums up their entire way of thinking.

  31. I’m confused. Why has money all of a sudden disappeared from the place? Did they not have insurance for this sort of thing?

    1. They had some major donors stop giving. Someone from “outside” was paying the note on the loan for the auditorium they built several years ago, to the tune of $1M a year.

    3. This hasn’t been sudden… when Jack Hyles died, many blowhards were secretly hoping to be appointed pope/dictator of all things IFBx. When Jack Schaap was selected, many of those hoping were looking for anything on which to attack him, and try to make him look bad.

      I know that Tom Heal was against Jack Schaap almost from the beginning. Many of the older preachers in the fundamental world refused to go to pastor’s school because (1) Jack Schaap was younger than them, so what could he teach them?, and (2) Jack Schaap hadn’t proved himself.

      Then Schaap came out with his booklet about unnecessary lines of separation being drawn – it included what was the historic fundamentalist positing on the KJV, and it provided the opening the others were waiting for; they accused Schaap of deserting Hyles and published far and wide that “he didn’t believe that the Bible was inspired”.

      Thus, many of the older preachers refused to send their students to HAC under Jack Schaap. And some men, like Russell Anderson, stopped giving (he is the most well known, but there were others).

      Jack Schaap, in his arrogance, apparently decided to keep going and to keep getting bigger and impressing people. He spent more, and built stuff, but he didn’t have the funds.

      Now, the house of cards is coming down.

  33. They have tried several failed evangelistic attempts, all of which cost them a fortune.
    *They tried “Hyles Angels” the Christian Motorcycle ministry but they drummed out of Sturgis with their neckties stuffed…somewhere else. They also lost several members there when the fleshly cravings took over.
    *They attempted to team with Captain Sig Hanson on a fishing vessel for “Deadliest Catch” but since Sig is very aggressive about marketing his name and so is Hyles it didn’t work out. The Schaap people bought a boat and outfitted it and decided upon a name. Focus groups largely panned “Sig Hyles” across the board and the Hyles people sold the boat at a loss. She’s now a garbage scow called the “Beverly H” and she runs out of Gloucester.
    *The Church bought a large portion of the old Motown song catalog hoping to cash in on iTunes. They revamped a few songs. “Schaap in the Name of Love” was not the hit they’d hoped it would be.
    *”The King James Jokebook” bombed
    *Jack Schaaps “Raising Godly Girls” was dropped inexplicably by the publisher just last month. They demanded a full refund of all advance monies
    Plus those evil attorneys refuse to work for free

    2. ““Schaap in the Name of Love” was not the hit they’d hoped it would be.”
      😆 😀 😆 😀 😆 😈 😎

      Auntie C, I read halfway through your post before I realized it wasn’t factual reportage.

    3. Come on, did they really have a motorcycle ministry??
      I can just imagine if they really went to Sturgis, at least they had leather wing-tipped shoes.
      In my ifb-jesus-school-cult I attended in high school, riding a motorcycle was prohibited because riding any kind of motorcycle will lead you into the life of joining the Hell’s Angels, selling drugs, raping women, bestiality, and killing people while high on drugs.
      After the past 15 years of riding BMW bikes, I never had any of these feelings…I must have the wrong kind of bike.

  34. Back in the 80s I lost a teaching job in a fundy school. Not because of finacial problems. I was never told “why.” On one of the final days of the school year I was puzzled as to why I had not been approached as years before about the upcoming year’s job. So I went to see the principal during recess and asked. He looked at me and tried to pull off a surprised look, which was hard through the embarassment. “Oh, we thought you weren’t coming back. That’s what you said.” I said?! Months earlier I’d driven the 25 miles to the school in snow and spun out on the interstate. I arrived shaken and scared. I said, “I don’t know if I can do this anymore.” So they used that statement of distress from a scared young woman as a lever to pry me out at the end of the year. I didn’t fit their mold, and they wanted me gone. Three years earlier they were desperate for a 6th grade teacher and I was available. They did not require that I join the church as the church I was attending was sending about a dozen kids to the school. My family had been burned by a crony of the pastor back when I was in college and I wouldn’t be surprised if he had some pull in the situation. My SIL was a student there at the time and attended the church. She tells me that they wanted me gone because they had a man to take my position. She also stood up for me when rumors were going around that I had been fired. I spent the next year bouncing from one piddling little job to the next trying to keep myself together. Thank God for my parents always welcoming me home when I need to land on them! I ran into tax problems, too, thanks to the way this church paid its staff under the table! I was young and green and had no clue that they were cutting corners at the expense of their employees. I didn’t understand what “contract labor” was. I didn’t know that meant “we pay you this amount but we aren’t paying the government anything on your behalf like respectable insitutions do because we are cheap and don’t have faith that God can supply us what you need; you have to have faith for that yourself.” That cost me a lot when it all fell apart.

    1. I understand the “never told why” part of losing a job in a fundy school. My husband and I planned to leave Fundy U’s employment at the end of our contract period but kept it from administration. I was totally shocked when my immediate supervisor came to hand deliver me a letter at contract renewal time. For some reason they never explained, both my husband and I were not offered contracts. Many cuts were made that year, so we do believe it was financially motivated. My husband was one of three new hires, and all three were dropped. That I can understand in a financial crisis. But what hurt was that I, and the other 2 wives, had all held our positions longer than our husbands and were not the newest hires in our departments. As I said, we were leaving anyway, but it doesn’t feel good to be seen as dispensible.

      1. That right there is the dark underbelly to full time Christian service – you can serve well, devote everything you have to your ministry, work a second job to support what your ministry paid position needs, display technical excellence that will likely never again be seen in that position. It truly doesn’t matter. When it’s all said and done, no matter what you do, you are always 100% disposable. You are no more necessary than TP in the bathrooms. There will always be someone younger, prettier, and easier to control waiting to take your position.
        I can understand a business being run this way and cutting their staff that are not worth an investment, but that is not what happens here. In the Christian world, no matter what you contribute or how much of an investment you have proved to be worth, it does not matter – people can and will be replaced for no reason at all. At least when you play cutthroat politics in the world, there are some generally accepted rules. Not so in the IFB.

        1. I was informally offered a position at Fundy U, in the IT department which was relatively higher paid. I didn’t even consider it for a second. I had seen how they treat their workers. The pay is kept so low that workers can’t accumulate any sort of buffer. That means they’re not at liberty to quit and find a better job and can pretty much do anything they want to you.

          There are companies that pay as little as possible. But most of those companies have at minimum a laid-back work environment, so that people who value that highly will continue to work there. In church ministries it is often the worst of both world: subsistence wages and poor treatment.

        2. I work in IT in a non-fundy, but still Christian, U. What you describe is not limited to Fundies, unfortunately.

        3. Please do remember that “the Christian world” and “the IFB” are not coterminous. Cheating and mistreating employees is not an institutional virtue in, e.g., the Episcopal Church. Or the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. I bet a lot of mainstreamers who read here could chime in.

  35. I feel sorry for the people being laid off, but there is never a good time for it to happen… there’s “before Christmas” (but we’re — what? two months + away from it). Even worse would be after they purchased gifts with money they expected to come in.

    Just after Christmas is bad because they are having to pay for Christmas.

    Late spring is bad because one has to compete with the college students graduating looking for jobs.

    Summer is bad because college students are willing to do the work cheaper and generally don’t care much about benefits.

    Now that they are out from under the spell of the smooth-talking “MOG”, they are doing what needs to be done to put their financial house in order. It will be painful, indeed.

    In fact, the situation here is a micro-picture of what’s going to HAVE to happen in our country as well. If we are to survive as a country, some incredibly hard choices are going to have to be made.

    1. Guilt Ridden…are you secretly Dave Ramsey? because if so let me take this opportunity to tell you to your face how I hate you.
      (I’m sure your not him so that was just a vent)
      If there was a category for Financial Fundies that cat would be the equivalent of Jack Hyles

      1. I don’t understand the Dave Ramsey hate. I listen to him occasionally when I’m in the car. I’ve never heard him say anything that wasn’t absolute common sense. Financial common sense is in short supply, he’s good at pitching it, and I can’t blame him for making money off it.

        I’ve never heard him be nasty with genuinely poor people in a tough spot. I have heard him tell people with affluence that it’s poor stewardship to blow money on toys, i.e., the monthly interest payment on BMWs, Escalades, McMansions, vacation homest, etc. could make a real difference in the life of a single mom or widow in the church.

        Gotta say I agree with Guilt Ridden. I spent 15 years in and around Christian ministry. A LOT of people stay in the bubble because they’re scared of real life. Then they get punched in the face by economic reality. I can have empathy or sympathy, but in most cases it’s what’s necessary for them to square up to being an adult.

        Now a person who is disabled, or stuck supporting sick family members, or a woman who has to support kids on their own… I can and have supported people like that. But someone who spent 10-20 years in Fundy ministry but is otherwise healthy? No, they need to learn. If that makes me just like a Fundamentalist then so be it.

      2. I don’t get the Dave Ramsey hate either. Maybe Auntie Christ called in for advice and didn’t like the advice he got or maybe he got called out on some bad behavior with money? The only thing I disagree with Dave Ramsey on is: he goes along with the twisted protestant teaching of tithing for Christians today. I am sure he is just repeating what he has always been told by his own pastors along the way.
        Dave Ramsey isn’t always right about every thing obviously and I am no apologist for him. Compare the mans company to any other out there and it is one of the top in how they treat people and his “product” is one of the top ones out there actually doing some thing practical to help people out in this economy. (his company “Lampo group” was voted “best place to work” by Nashville business magazine 2012)

      3. I barely know who Dave Ramsey is; I think I’ve heard or seen him once or twice. In any event, I’m not him.

        I agree with the what the others above have said. When I had funds, I often helped out underpaid teachers out of my own pocket, so I’m not opposed to helping people in true need.

      4. I just re-read what I originally wrote, and there may be some misunderstanding. When I wrote “Now that THEY are out from under the spell of a smooth-talking MOG, THEY need to put their financial house in order”, I was NOT referring to the people laid off; by “THEY”, I meant the leadership of FBCH and HAC. I did not mean to imply in any way that the people being laid off didn’t have their financial house in order; I have no information on that point.

  36. Guilt ridden. Losing a job, etc. is just part of our economic system that all of us face, whether carpenters, nurses, accountants, and yes church folk. Do not think the sky is falling with your last statement. What is falling is that perhaps your skills are not in demand any more and that you must upgrade, re-brand, re-learn. I’ll wager there is a community college near for you where you can learn a skill, etc that is currently in need. Like the axiom in real estate (location, location, location) perhaps yours may be choice, choice, choice. Welcome to the United States and our system where no one, generally, has a guarantee to any life long job. And as far as your City on the Hill concerned, it’s demise surely will happen, so flee it (and them) and join our economic system offering something that others want. Oh yes, if you will, read the most recent Pew Report addressing the systemic decline of church going and giving. The gig is finally up.

  37. Any hope of change would have to be tempered by the fact that umpteen years after the fact that it was proven, beyond reasonable doubt that Jack Hyles was carrying on with his secretary, people not only continue denying it, but holding Jack as THE EXAMPLE, as the goal every Man of God should aspire to be like.

    As long as this college continues to be named HYLES Anderson, it shows it is rotten to the core.

    Sort of like if we created a college and called it Judas Iscariot College.

  38. Seems to me that the “church”, and all it’s “ministries”, are gearing up financially for the, sure to be, multi-million dollar settlements they are going to endure when victims of crimes past, present, and future coming calling with civil suits.
    Wouldn’t suprise me that they would be looking for extra capital now to keep the dog and pony show going for the future. Doesn’t matter who has to be sacrificed along the way, as long as they can save the machine in the long run.

  39. Yeah, I’ll be praying for HAC. Praying that the place will be shut down for good, and soon. It’s long past time to put an end to the putrid corruption spewing out from that cesspool.

  40. Solution to the HAC mess

    1. Change the name from Hyles Anderson College to something Christian (such as Grace College)
    2. Replace the White Piano and install a drum kit. (need to smash their idols)
    3. Sell the Auditorium and rent community facilities. (gets rid of debt and brings them closer to real people).
    4. Drop the KJV for another version. (need to smash more idols)
    5. Tear down the Hyles statue (hey, at least I am not suggesting they grind it up and drink it)
    6. Seek a pastor who has been trained at a non-IFB college.

    If they are prepared to do the above, then I think they are serious about repenting. Otherwise, it is all just smoke and mirrors.

      1. Well, extra-biblical, and not. There were rules against cross-dressing, yes. But a) modern women’s trousers/slacks/pants are definitely not male clothing, and b) and in the mosaic era, trousers were *women’s* clothing.

        If you want to go back to 1611 fashions, go for it. But not many women I know would happily wear corset stay, and men wouldn’t either. (Looked at Jacobean fashions lately? 😉 )

      2. The women showed a fair bit of cleavage in 1611. Just saying – if they want to be consistent. 😳

  41. The facilities are in a depressed and decayed inner city. They will be extremely difficult to sell. There is already likely a glut of office space. Even the land won’t be worth much due to the cost involved in demolishing and repurposing the structures.

    1. Oh boy O boy. O boy……. Tell me Craig, is your eye twitching,are you writhing in excitement ….. You sick little puppy 😳

  42. This is the price you pay when your lead pastor is cursing people out in the church and you look the other way.

  43. If you run this through the IFB cliche translator it sounds like this:
    When WE are growing, God is blessing us
    When YOU are growing, it is as a result of some compromise you made for the sake of growth
    When bad things happen to US, it is never due to actions (read: sin) on our part
    When bad things happen to YOU, God is punishing you for your sin (read: not enough faith, compromise, lack of tithing, etc)

    1. Bro Bluto!

      That’s exactly how they perceive it! You hit the nail on the head!

      ~~~Heart 😕 💡

      1. It is amazing (in a REALLY bad sort of way) how much I retained from only 16 years in a Fundy church and associated elementary/middle/high school. My family left 30 years ago (before my junior year in school), and this is what still comes to mind. How telling is that? Last week I visited my old college (a Reformed Presbyterian school) as my good friend, the former chaplain, was speaking…while sitting in chapel listening to him speak and looking around at the faculty and student body, ALL of my memories about the school and local RPCNA congregations were of how CARING and NICE everyone was. I NEVER saw that in any IFB churches/schools.

        1. Bro Bruno!

          It is amazing in a BAD way! I too was in that Fundamental movement from childhood up to the day I actually walked out of HAC and never went back in April of 1982. Even through all these years of trying to maintain a proper and appropriate approach to life and the decisions therein, I, too often, struggle against the terrible feelings that Fundamentalism instills in people which is this fear of an angry judging God peering down with distain and me trying to obtain His mercies in order to find favor and His blessings.

          All the judgement that goes around in Fundamental circles is so far from the “Grace” factor. It also projects the assumption that if you appear to be flawless oh then you are closest to God and therefore in His favor but to be sure, I have felt more warmth of a godly woman who never attended fundamental churches and sweet unconditional understanding and concern from peoples of completely different walks of life.

          These, fundamental disciplines and principles are not inline with the true vain of scripture! They are detrimental and harm so many sweet spirited souls that are trying to please God. It’s such a shame.

          For what ever reason, common sense or God’s guidance, that enabled me to walk out of HAC that day… I am forever grateful! My daughter and son are adults now, level-headed and absolutely pure in thought as to Gid’s grace and the ways of the Golden rule! We did not raise them in the fundamental church. They lost their grandmother to the church, no not that she passed away but because she does not agree with me. She took a stand years ago to separate herself from us. In fact, the kids at church call her grandma. Isn’t that pitiful? That’s the Fundy Way! Very sad indeed!

          ~~~Heart 😥

        2. Heart,

          I remember when the IFB MoG at our old church told my cousins wife that she was supposed to cut herself off from her family and her twin sister because they were not believers.

          Im sorry, how in the HELL is she supposed to win them to Christ if she not even supposed to talk to them?!

          I wonder how many family’s have been driven apart because of this and possibly turned off to the gospel because of this “fundy logic”?

          Kinda of reminds of the the “mill stone around their necks” verse.

    2. Bro Bluto, That sums up quite well what they think. It’s astounding that they can’t see the arrogant self-righteousness implicit in such a stance.

      Heart, I too want my children to understand grace not guilt. I’m sorry that your children’s grandmother values her “holy” principles more than she values love.

      1. Pastors Wife – You hit another latent nerve with your self-righteousness comment. One of the other things ingrained into us was that the other local IFB churches tended to be self-righteous…something that obviously could not be said about our congregation. Pot, meet kettle. Is it me, or does it seem that the only other “acceptable” IFB churches (read: those pastored by the MOG’s buddies) are those that are not within driving distance? Along those lines, have you ever know local IFB churches to “fellowship” with one another?

      2. Ok PW, you have got to be challenged on that…..your reformed religious idiocy BREEDS and OOOOZES Arrogance 😀 Don’t you have chores to do….alot of free time for a supposed PW 😳

      3. Pastor’s Wife, & IFBNoMore,

        Thank you so much for your kind words…

        I wanted to let you know that my mom called me today (it was my birthday) and we talked all day long. We have not talked because of her involvement in the church and her decision making them the ultimate priority but having talked for the first time after jack schaap’s fall, she has seemed to have a change of heart. She insists that her eyes are on Christ, but I must say that there was a change of heart having had the “Idol” of the Fundamental Movement fall as he did, quite a disappointment.

        She wants to come visit. It’s been 6 years. Hopefully this is a new beginning and enough of this stupid separation of family just because family doesn’t follow the fundamental rules.

        Thanks for sharing and for letting me share!

        ~~~Heart 😉

  46. Facinatig reading this blog. I myself was a fundy pastor for 20 years and still pastor a wonderful group of Christians. I also run a sucessful growing business hiring people and helping people help their families and their worlds. I do not take a salary from the church. I still love God, I still am grateful, I still love His Word. I am a seeker of “Truth” not religion. There is much I want to share here and over time, I hope to be a blessing to my brothers and sisters here. We all have a very special common bond and we have come through the darkness nearer to the Light of God’s Truth and Spirit. Jesus Himself found that most of his trouble came from the religious. So happy o have found tis blog. Blessings and joy upon all of you! KK

    1. KingsKid,

      I’m glad you found this special place! I, too, was so very glad and I have found wonderful words in which to find empathy and so also offer mine in support or defense.

      All in all, I find this place a source of support, power, laughter, tears, and great insights and translations for all the ups and downs that accompany the effects of having been exposed to the intrusive fundamentalism.

      Surviving it is an all-too-long and taxing struggle but it is possible, all-the-while also possible is knowing yourself and God’s true intensions for your life. It’s quite enlightening realizing for yourself, your true gifts and abilities and even more enlightening knowing that God is pulling for you!

      Welcome and share… I’m sure you have a treasure trove full of wisdom!

      ~~~Heart

  47. Destroying HAC was the goal of the attack on the pastor. That was the whole goal. Not to protect some girl who didn’t need protecting anyway.

    You laughing hyenas enjoy yourselves. Because HAC is here to stay. There may be some lean days ahead, but we will come out of this stronger than before. You have your political operatives and your so-called prosecutors but we have Jesus Christ.

    2. Ichabod was written over FBCH a long time ago.

      You’ve got nothing…nothing but a bunch of crooked leaders. Enjoy your Kool-Aid.

    3. Margaret,

      My dear mis-guided Margaret. My heart goes out to you as you sincerely try to defend Hyles-Anderson College. Your efforts and words display your loyalty but, my dear, you are not opening your eyes to the truths that are set before you.

      We, with our “political operatives” or “prosecutors” as you put it, did not bring this upon you, but rather, Jack Schaap committed these ungodly acts of sin against God, against this child, against his family, against his church, and against Hyles-Anderson College, all of which were loyal to him!

      So my dear… the fault is in Jack Schaap’s failure in being loyal to all who had been loyal to him and the sad part about it is that you still, after his acts of sin, retain your loyalty to him and defend him.

      No, my dear Margaret, don’t play the martyr role here. Jack Schaap is being prosecuted by (hopefully) the full extent of the law because he broke it. There have been many men and women who have broken laws also that have come from these “…honored halls of learning…” (as quoted from the college’s alma mater), who also are or have been prosecuted and justly so!

      Our vision here is that this will stop!

      No one ever has any right whatsoever to harm another individual in any walk of life, but how much the more horrific it is when the harm comes from a person proclaimed to be a “Man of God”. What an atrocity!

      Margaret, open your eyes, open your heart, and open your mind. Process the realities of all that has transpired over these past few months specifically with Jack Schaap and furthermore from the past episodes of similar actions and crimes committed by graduates of Hyles-Anderson College.

      Ask questions of anyone here and you will learn that there is more to this than simply following their rules and their words. Think for yourself and allow yourself to know the truths. I hope you will soon understand the broad spectrum of all that you presently defend.

      Hopeful,
      ~~~Heart 😐

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