Current Events, Scandal

Plea Deals (When Denial Just Isn’t Working Anymore)

269 Comments


One wonders how the defenders, deniers, and other denizens of fundamentalism are going to try to spin this now that Schaap has flat out admitted that had sex with a minor.

The Chicago Sun-Timesl reports:

The recently fired pastor of a Hammond megachurch will plead guilty to taking a minor across state lines for sexual activity, federal prosecutors in Indiana said Tuesday.

Jack Schaap, former pastor of First Baptist Church in Hammond, was fired in August because he allegedly had a relationship with a 17-year-old girl. The church initially said its deacon board fired Schaap because he committed a “sin.”

The church has said the 17-year-old girl and her family are members of First Baptist, which was one of the first megachurches in the country. The church has a congregation of more than 15,000.

Schaap, 54, of Dyer, is scheduled to have his initial appearance Wednesday afternoon before U.S. Judge Paul Cherry in federal court in Hammond.

Church officials said in August that they didn’t believe any crime had occurred but that they had turned the case over to the Lake County Sheriff’s Department. The sheriff’s office and the FBI investigated the case.

Schaap graduated from Hyles-Anderson Bible College, which is associated with First Baptist, and married Cynthia Hyles, daughter of First Baptist founder Jack Hyles.

Church leaders have said Schaap has been spending time since leaving the church with his wife, as the two try to save their marriage.

I predict that the tune will now enter again the old refrain of “can’t we just forgive, forget, and not talk about this anymore?” It’s the same old song just louder and worse.

Let me take this opportunity to repeat myself from a previous piece I wrote about Bob Jones University which is equally applicable to their crazy cousins over at Hyles-Anderson.

The great stratagem is thus to continually change the terms of the debate until you prove that you are right on some solitary point. Once you have done this then claim that the point on which you are standing is the only one that matters and no other arguments can possibly count.

Has there been a moral failing? Point out that the people involved were legally correct.

Was what was done illegal? Appeal to some higher, biblical authority and decry the corruption of the legal system.

Was the action indefensibly immoral, illegal, and unbiblical? Then use your eternal trump card and claim that to focus on it would be a distraction from The Gospel and that nothing can possibly be more important than seeing souls saved.

And do all of the above while endlessly touting your own innocence and integrity and relentlessly denigrating the character and motives of your accusers. But whatever you do, don’t say you were wrong. Don’t apologize. Don’t make restitution. Don’t for a second doubt that you are right simply by being.

For no matter how many court rulings and media stories and witnesses and blogs and protestors rise up against you, you can be confident that you have never been wrong. This is your birthright. This is your heritage. This is the sacred trust passed down from father to son for generations: the gift of being always and forever right.

269 thoughts on “Plea Deals (When Denial Just Isn’t Working Anymore)”

  5. I keep wondering about Cindy and the emotions she’s feeling. I wonder if she’s getting to show them. There has to be so much anger after years of him telling her how to be a virtuous wife, and listening to him tell others how to live.

    I just hope she’s had a moment to actually get to express what she’s feeling without being rebuked.

      1. Like any wife, I am sure, she has her time to vent in the privacy of her home. I am sure that she was totally broken and mortified that her husband had followed in the same footsteps of her father (or at least as he had been accused). Why should she get counseling. If she has the Bible, the Holy Spirit of God living within her and the ability to pray, then why does she need counseling. Oh! Wait, this is the modern age of cruches and for me to be modern I need the cruch of a counselor to help me get through this horrible ordeal. Obviously, God isn’t enough. I need some good old worldly wisdom. How dare you mock this lady in her tragedy to suggest if she does or doesn’t get counseling, “does she think it is a sin.”
        Our hearts should be broken because once again Jesus, not Jack Schaap, takes it on the chin. The scoffers and God deniers take this to prove all Christianity is a “Hoax.” As much as I despise the arrogant, condescending attitude of the Hammond crowd I take no joy in the fall of this man, but I know the Bible to be true when Moses said, “Be sure your sin will find you out.” (Numbers 32:23)

        Jerimiah 9:23-24 – Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

        3. I didn’t see the question as mockery but a legitimate query. There are people, like Mote and Beam apparently, who think counseling is worldly and shows that people aren’t trusting God enough.

          Counseling to me though is a way for us to bear one another’s burdens. How can we ever be helped if we don’t share the things that are weighing us down? God uses the body of Christ – other believers – to encourage one another. There is no requirement in Scripture for us to only pray and read the Bible and not ask others for help and insight.

        5. Oh please…

          Since when did God say that council with a fellow human is wrong? She can’t pray and find answers in the Bible, and rely on God, but still seek some other person who she might be able to confide in and rely on? I think in her time of need, she should be surrounded by people who will support her.

        7. I wasn’t remotely insinuating that Mrs Schaap isn’t finding or hasn’t found comfort in leaning on ladies with whom she trust with her inner most feelings. All of us do that at times with people we can trust. It is the very idea today that with every trial, valley or failure in life I must run to someone with a degree in counseling to help me with my problem. However, Pastors Wife, I take the very question, “Does she think counseling is a sin?”, to be a slam against her. (Just my oppinion) I think we need be careful lest we become what we are accusing others of being. 😳

        8. I’m pretty sure Jesus can take whatever the “scoffers and deniers” can dish out–after all, he’s done it before. I’m less sure about Cindy Schaap, and I hope she feels right about getting professional, non-church-related help with whatever she’s going through, if she feels that she needs to do so. If she loved her husband and believed him, this has to be terribly hard; if she didn’t quite so much, that brings its own set of problems.

        9. By the way, thanks for telling people who seek counseling in times of emotional distress that they’re utilizing a “crutch” (pretty loaded language, although crutches are quite handy inventions when one is injured and yet one still wants to keep getting around), which wouldn’t be necessary if they just trusted Jesus. What were we saying about people being shamed out of seeking help?

          Oh, that’s right. That it doesn’t serve real people, but it does serve the church’s desire to promote the false belief that everything after you’ve been saved is roses and butterfly kisses from Jesus 24/7. Once more, institutions save themselves first and count humans as collateral damage. Broken hearts and betrayed trust? Shut up, you whiner, you’ll feel better when you’ve prayed enough.

          Christ have mercy.

        11. Crutches are great for helping people stand up and walk around who otherwise couldn’t.
          Give me a crutch over a sickbed any day.

      2. That wasn’t at all a slam against her – it was a slam against what many IFB churches teach. I sure hope she seeks the counsel of another human being, and that she feels free to do so and not have to hide it from people in the church that would condemn her for doing so.

        Don’t even try to say some wouldn’t.

    2. I was wondering if she sees that this is the consistant fruit of fundamentalism. Will she judge a tree by its fruit or has the poor women been steeped in this stuff so long that she can’t snap out of it?

    4. According to an article I read tonight, she was with him in court, he hugged and kissed her, then before being led off by marshals he winked at her and said, “I love you.” That whole description made me sick. Sounds like a show on his part, and, though she is supposed to forgive him, it makes me think she isn’t allowed/allowing herself to express her feelings.

      1. According to what I read, they practically made out in the courtroom with a “long, pasionate kiss.”

        I’d throw out an alternative to the psychological theories. I think most IFB pastor culture is a huge act and put-on. I think “Mrs. Jack Schaap” is essentially a character that she plays in the public eye. Who knows what she is like in real life. Beverly would have taught her well the importance of such role-playing. It’s what pays the bills, after all. 😥

        1. I agree completely with your analysis, Deacon’s Son.
          She had to play that fiction with her father, and nothing changed when she married Jack Schaap.

        2. Glad you didn’t write this last night; it’s clearly too early today for me to start drinking. I honestly think “preacher’s wife” is the hardest profession there is, because there is so little downtime from the act you have to play. I hope Mrs. Schaap finds support from a sister or friend or SOMEONE who can allow her to be herself…if there is any self left in there.

          She may stand by him, she may cut her losses. I wish her well either way, as long as it’s HER choice.

    5. I’m very conflicted on having sympathy for her. No one deserves to go through what she’s had to deal with, but she’s certainly put out more than her fair share of judgmentalism & pain into plenty of innocent victims, and I have a hard time feeling bad for her even though she was an innocent victim in this case that didn’t deserve it.

      1. She was complicit in spreading Schaap’s evil teachings. Read “Christian Womanhood” and you’ll see what I mean.

        2. Exactly. I don’t think she deserved to have a cheating pedofile husband, but I can’t muster much sympathy at all for considering her lack of sympathy for anyone she didn’t have to treat humanely.

        3. One little picky point here. Having a sexual affair with a 16- or 17-year-old is not an example of pedophilia. Pedophilia is sexual attraction to (sometimes including sexual acts with) prepubescent children. I certainly think that a married, 54-year-old minister having a sexual relationship with a teenaged parishioner is wrong (as I’ve probably made obvious by now), but it isn’t pedophilia. Some people call this kind of sexual orientation “hebephilia” (“hebe” being Greek for “youth”) or “ephebophilia” (“ephobos” being a Greek term for late adolescents to young adults) to distinguish it from sexual attraction to very young children.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia

    1. What about Paul Chappell’s father and brother, and how those incidents were handled? Why is his brother back in ministry? Why hasn’t Paul “called out” that problem?

      Sounds very hypocritical and pharisaical to me! 😕

      1. Could someone tell me what happened with Paul Chappell’s father & brother? I haven’t heard about that. I’m asking because my nephew attends West Coast Baptist College & his parents (my sister & her husband)are always attending Bible conferences at the college & the church (Lancaster Baptist). They are die in the wool IFB. There is something about Paul Chappell that I don’t trust. It might be that I don’t trust any IFB pastors or leaders, though. 😀

      2. I commented on Ed Stetzer’s article about an hour ago. So far my comment has been approved. I call a spade a spade and say that Chappell’s article rings hollow when he hasn’t bothered to call out the abuses of those closest to him. We’ll see if it gets approved. 😐

  7. There’s a part of me that wishes Schaap wasn’t pleading out. Can you imagine what might come out in a full investigation? Might find a couple of more skeletons in some closets over there in Hammond.

    However, for this young lady and her family, I’m glad this particular hapter is coming to an end. I sincerely hope the church will step up and at least financially settle with her without her having to pursue legal action. Hopefully, she will get the help she needs to help her move on after this abuse.

    Along with the victim and her family, Mrs. Schaap and family could also use our prayers today.

  8. My hope right now is that now that it’s out of the hands of fundamentalists and into the hands of the government, it won’t be glossed over simply because, well, federal prosecutors are unlikely to be impressed by how big Schaap’s church is and how many souls he’s “won” and how many sermons he’s preached on polishing shafts.

    Never thought I’d be so glad for the separation of church and state…

  9. I sure hope Schaap gets to start his own personal “prison ministry”….but I seriously doubt it. 👿

  10. If he goes to jail, they are going to “love” him there. Could not happen to a nicer guy after all the hatred and guilt he has spewed all these years… maybe he will show them how to “polish a shaft” in there… he is in for some interesting times…

      1. I really, really, don’t understand why people talk in such a loose way about sexual assault in prison.

        If it was a woman going to jail, would you say such things?

        I do not think it either funny nor appropriate to speak in this way, even for a low-life piece of Schaap. Nobody deserves their dignity assailed that way. Nobody.

        I have a friend, male, who was sexually assaulted by his priest in the RC church, so I’m a little sensitive about it admittedly. But seriously, as a culture, why are so many cavalier about sexual violence towards men?

        I ask these questions honestly, and earnestly ask you all to reflect on what you say.

        1. I hope you can see the difference between a dude who was victimized as a child by a priest, and a pastor who victimizes a girl in his church. Most of us can see the irony in an abuser getting what he gave out.

        2. Irony? Sorry that I fail to see the funny or ironic in the suggestion that someone be sexually assaulted. It’s wrong, no matter what sins the man (or woman) has done.

          Or we are just back to eye-for-an-eye, which last time I looked, Christ was pretty down on.

        4. Well Walt it’s like this. Ol Jackie boy molested a young girl who was vulnerable to an attack by a person in authority. She trusted him and he manipulated the situation and molested her. Now maybe to you this would not be a big deal however outside the cult mentality we consider this a really big deal. Now perhaps you were not aware but the folks who are incarcerated generally do not like sick pathetic losers like Jackie boy that molest little children. Since the victims and parents of these little kids don’t have the ability to have some real justice the inmates take it upon themselves to provide a little back door justice if you will for the victims and parents. Look at it like this Jackie boy will have an excellent opportunity to experience what it was like to be in the position of that little girl. Perhaps he’ll learn what it’s like and maybe he’ll never molest children again.

      2. I don’t find rape jokes to be ironic or funny. What Jack Schaap did was horrible and indefensible, but we are better than this.

        3. Well said! Rape is never funny, no matter who it happens to. We are far better than this line of thinking.

    1. Don’t know what Indiana’s laws are, but we can pray for truth in sentencing laws which would prevent any time off for “good behavior”.

    2. Federal sentences do not come with parole, there’s options for supervised release, which is more stringent, and is not anywhere near as easy to get or offered as early. I would guess he serves 7 minimum probably closer to 9.

    3. Federal Bureau of Prisons does not have a parole system. When you receive time from the Federal Government, you do at least 90% of the time. The reason for this is because state charges are generally dropped because the Feds are able to give out harsher jail times for the crimes committed than the state can. Being that the same crime was alleged to have occurred in 3 different states, I’m guessing none of them wanted to touch this case or they wanted to fight over jurisdiction. Technically, the sex acts that occurred were not illegal, if done with consent, as the consenting age for the states of Illinois, Indiana, and Michigan are 16. This is why they are getting him with transporting a minor over state lines and that federal investigators were used find something that could hold weight in court. I just don’t understand the reasoning behind the federal and state laws here. If the victim in this situation is considered a minor under state annotated code, defining a minor as under the age of 18 years, then how could she be old enough to consent to any form of sexual acts? She can’t officially sign a legal document, buy tobacco, or vote but is considered mature enough to have a sexual relationship with a much much older man. Something just doesn’t seem right about that to me.

      1. She is a minor if the other person is in a position of authority; such as, her counsellor, her pastor, and her school administrator. That changes things slightly.

  12. He messed up. Get over it. You are not honestly saying this happens only in IFB churches. He admitted it, was removed from his position, and now he’s in court. So what’s the issue? The issue is that there has to be an issue, because just like with “Dateline” etc. there needs to some sort of daily programming. Yawn.

    1. “He messed up” – I wonder if his victim and her family feel this way?

      “You are not honestly saying this happens only in IFB churches.” – No one is saying that at all.

      “So what’s the issue?” – You just haven’t been paying attention. Or you are just in denial. Which is the whole point of the post.

    2. Are you serious? I mean, for real? You really just wrote, “He messed up. Get over it.”?

      We’re not talking about a small town criminal. This man hurt SO many people, betrayed the trust of so many, and seriously took advantage of his position. He told a lot of people how to live, yet he lived how he wanted.

      This isn’t a simple matter of “he messed up”.

      The emotional aftermath of the people that trusted him will go on for years.

    3. He spent years telling people what to do from the pulpit. He has demonstrated anger and arrogance toward others. He preached legalism not grace. He was a white-washed sepulcher, demanding people live by man-made rules while failing himself to follow God’s actual rules.

      As a public figure and very influential in certain circles of Christianity, his hypocrisy needs to be exposed and rejected that those who followed him might repent and turn to Jesus.

      1 Timothy 5:20 in context is speaking of pastors: ” Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.”

      1. Quote o’ The Day:

        I’m sorry, but it is difficult for me to “get over” the rape of a minor; especially by one who claims to be a follower of Jesus Christ, and a shepherd to boot.–Dr Fundystan, Proctologist

    6. Dear templewoman:

      Christian believers do not trivialize blatant injustice and injurious wrongdoing. Unless or until you give us reason to believe that there has been a genuine change on your part, I cannot in obedience to Jesus Christ accept your profession of faith.

      Christian Socialist

    7. I am honestly starting to believe that those who scream, “Get over it!” the loudest have either been victimized and are in deep denial about the damage done to them, or they are themselves abusers or enablers and would rather not have to face the damage they are doing or have done. It’s not normal or healthy to look at those who have been abused or who are demanding justice for abused and scream at them to just “get over it!”

    8. No, it doesn’t only happen in IFB churches. But IFB pastors are pretty much the only ones yelling and screaming at you to live up to their man-made “standards and convictions.” To me, that makes it even more ironic, disgusting and heinous that while ranting at you to follow every letter of their law, they’re off indulging in everything from garden-variety immorality to sexual crime. 🙄

    9. For the record, he’s not “in court”. He plead guilty to a sexual federal crime (probably a felony) against a minor. The only part left in the courts is the sentencing, and he did it to avoid getting the full wrath of law against sexual predators like him. Maybe you should take these things less flippantly than just getting over it.

    10. The saddest part about the “get over it” mentality in the IFB is that doesn’t apply to any higher ups. Anyone ever been shipped from school for stupid stuff, much more, transporting a minor across state lines to get freaky? I’m sure it would have been perfectly acceptable to look at the school admin and say, “Look, I messed up, get the eff over it.”

      1. Dear Megan:

        One suspects that ‘get over it’ is shorthand for ‘what matters is that donations and offerings keep rolling into the coffers.’ Hence, ‘get over it.’

        Christian Socialist

  13. For what it’s worth, I know of a somewhat similar case where a pastor took a plea bargain after having had “sexual relations” with a teenage girl. His plea deal gave him 8 years in prison and he wasn’t pleading to federal charges. Based on that I don’t know that Schaap will be walking without prison time.

  14. Someone else said this in one of the earlier posts but I feel it is worth repeating:

    We can only hope that the judge who sentences Jack “I-don’t-get-my-theology-from-a-woman” Schaap, is in fact a woman.

    4. I, too, fervently hoped that the judge would be a woman, and that Schaap’s anti-woman tirades would come up in the trial. So far, it doesn’t look like we’re getting our wish.
      The Chicago Tribune reported: “Schaap was scheduled to have his initial court appearance Wednesday at 3 p.m. before U.S. Magistrate Judge Paul Cherry in Hammond.”
      Judge Cherry is apparently male. Here’s his official biography:
      http://www.innd.uscourts.gov/judges/cherry/cherrybio.shtml

    5. By the way, if you want to comment on Schaap’s sentencing, you can send a letter to Judge Cherry at:

      Magistrate Judge Paul R. Cherry
      Suite 3500, U.S. Courthouse
      5400 Federal Plaza
      Hammond, IN 46320

      The judge doesn’t have to do what members of the public want, but is permitted to consider your comments. Please make any letters courteously worded and on the subject of sentencing.

  16. The man has made a career of judging others, and now he will be judged. I am trying to find empathy in my heart for this man. I can find sympathy for his family, but no empathy for him. If his ministry had been one of preaching forgiveness to sinners and the ever-reaching grace of God, I may be more inclined (not to excuse his actions) to preach forgiveness of him as well. But he set a standard of judgement which he will now be judged by.

  17. The Federal crime he was indicted on carries a mandatory penalty of ten years to life in prison. I don’t know if that’s what he’s pled to but I think he’s going away to Federal PMITA prison for a while.

    1. I think they have him dead to rights and told him if he’d fess up they’d ask the judge for the minimum sentence. I don’t think he pled to a lesser crime. We’ll see this afternoon I guess.

      Under Federal guidelines with good behaviors he’ll serve nine years in Federal prison.

      I think it’s a very fair sentence. If you don’t think it is, go volunteer to be incarcerated in a county jail for just one weekend.

    2. Federal criminal law these days prescribes “mandatory minimum” sentences for almost every offence (meaning the judge can’t go any lower than the 10 years). However, the judge may be able to suspend some or all of the sentence.
      Reports are that the deal was that in return for the federal guilty plea, prosecutors in the various states involved (at least 3 states) agreed not to file state charges.

      1. Federal judges cannot suspend sentences. Google it. The Sentencing Reform Act of 1984 abolished parole and suspended sentences on the Federal level, and required judges to adhere to minimum sentencing guidelines. He cannot get less than a ten year sentence, with 54 days credit for good behavior for every year in sentence. It comes out to at least eight years, eight months, two weeks and two days.

  18. Rapist often get beat up in prison and I hope he gets his ass kicked for ruining that girl’s life.

    I’m also glad this dirtbag won’t be sucking free wind for while.

    Where would he serve prison? Would it be in Hammond or Chicago? Cook County Prison would be a fitting place for the likes of him b/c it’s the worst prison in the country, I think.

    3. I’d guess Marion. I don’t think Cook County is federal. I pass Marion every time I go camping. I can stop my car, get out, and thumb my nose at him every time I pass, if you guys want me to … might be kind of enjoyable. 😛

        1. I have a son and a son-in-law, both graduates of a fundy college, both now out of the IFB cult, and both now working at a Federal Prison…

        2. I did not consider that some readers may be victims of male on male sexual violence. I do apologize for the Youtube I posted above.

          No way is Schaap going to Supermax. I know people want him flayed alive but 8 3/4 years in Federal prison is not a light sentence.

          If he hadn’t taken her across state lines there likely would have been no crime. She is above the age of consent. Immoral, but not illegal under Indiana law. But the second he crossed state lines he became a sex trafficker.

        3. Don’t forget the pictures…Those are considered child porn. I think it was the penalties associated with the pictures that convinced him to take this plea deal.

        4. I don’t know about child porn charges. I spent about 10-15 minutes skimming the law and various stories and it’s not clear to me that a sext counts as child porn, unless Schaap distributed it.

          I think the FBI had a slam dunk case with regard to transporting a minor across state lines for sex. Schaap knew he couldn’t win and settled for a plea bargain.

          They may have told him they’d press other charges if he didn’t play ball. Who knows.

        5. Elijah Craig,

          I don’t know about Indiana state law, but in Kentucky, it is a Class D Felony. I know because I recently served on a jury trial involving a child porn case in Northern Kentucky. However, federal law might only involve distribution and not the possession of child porn, but I am not looking up federal laws on the matter.

  19. I would like to predict that someone out there will say, “Just because he plead guilty, doesn’t mean he is guilty. The justice system is corrupt, and he would be found guilty no matter what so he’s just trying to minimize the damage, bla, bla, bla.”

  20. Guest post by Pastor William Otis Edacity:

    We know that this is just an attempt by the media, which is full of liberals to take down the Greatest Church of all time, which has focused our attention on the Great Commission, which so many lazy Christians have ignored.

    The Sun declared that Jack Hyles is the founder of FBCH – if they cannot even get that part right, why should we believe anything they say?

    It’s in the hands of the courts now – let us get back to the Main Business of keeping souls out of hell. See you on Tuesday, or Thursday, or Saturday (and expect an email if I don’t see you there).

    1. 😯 😯 😯

      The Great Commission includes this part too: “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you” (Mt. 28:20).

      Sexual purity is part of Christ’s commands. How dare he suggest only obeying SOME of what Jesus said?

  21. I’m Pastor Jack Schaap I am
    Pastor Jack Schaap I am, I am
    I got married to a Hyles’ Daughter
    Now I can do whatever I wanner,
    And everyone would bow down to me (worship me)
    While I polish my Willy on the stand (by hand)
    I’m god’s gift girls in my church
    Pastor Jack Schaap I am

    Se-cond verse worse than the first

    1. I agree that Chappell wants a new regime with him at the head of it. He already has my fundie family sucked into his dream world of IFB hegemony.

    2. He is always so pragmatic!

      Chappell criticized people who left the IFB, and now he is toying with the same just to improve his public image. Gotta laugh!

      Besides, he is such a hypocrit for thinking he is any different than the rest of them. He covers for his own pervy brother!

  25. I”m waiting to see how long it takes him to try to use the “But, the ‘woman,’ she tempted me!” excuse. It’s the oldest one in the book, and lays the responsibility on someone else, so I’m sure he’ll be using it at the sentencing.

    1. Good point, Beth. But I think that given how he has been told all his life how awesome he is that he has some strange notion that “confessing” his wrongdoing to the court will so utterly impress the judge that The Amazing Doctor Schaap will get instant leniency.

      He seems to be forgetting all the other stuff they could have charged him with but didn’t 😕 .

      1. He’s also forgetting that most criminals accept a plea bargain, making him about as special as a million other convicted felons.

    2. That’s a condition all the sons of Adam have. It quite literally is the oldest excuse in the book. “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate”- Genesis 3

  26. This song goes out to Jack from his future cell mate “Big” Ben, “Big” Ben Dover.

    Sincerely, oh yes, sincerely,
    ‘Cause I love you so dearly,
    Please say you’ll be mine.

    Sincerely, oh you know how I love you,
    I’ll do anything for you.
    Please say you’ll be mine.

    Oh lord, won’t you tell me why
    I loved that girlie so
    she doesn’t want me though
    I‘ll never, never, never, never let her go.
    Sincerely, oh you know how I love you…

    Looks like Jack may get it in the end after all.

  27. Don that is one funny post. But I don’t think its just “Big” Ben looking for love, it may be “Hugh G Rection”, Ben’s current cell mate, is looking for some comfort as well….

    Yes I’m bad 👿

  29. “Though the mills of God grind slowly;
    Yet they grind exceeding small;
    Though with patience He stands waiting,
    With exactness grinds He all.”–Retribution, by Friedrich von Logau, translated by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

  30. Oh my word. I spend one day away from my computer and phone to attend a special event and look what I miss! This is indeed great news.

    I concur in the comments made above that pleading out speaks volumes about what he is trying to cover up.

    Now to read “pastor” Chappell’s statement.

      1. you bet he is! Quite the opportunist!

        I wonder when or if other IFBs will start asking about his pervy family. Why does he think it is a good idea for Mark to bring youth to Paul’s conferences?

      2. you bet he is! Quite the opportunist!

        I wonder when or if other IFBs will start asking about his pervy family. Why does he think it is a good idea for Mark to bring youth to his conferences?

  31. Probably I am not the only person here who has done prison ministry and is uncomfortable with the unrestrained glee Schaap’s theoretical forthcoming sexual assault is generating. His crime is quite serious and I hope he does serve a substantive sentence, but I don’t hope he’s raped. I actually don’t hope anyone is raped.

    1. I don’t want to see him raped, either. I think the chances of being raped in prison are real but overstated.

      I think 10 years, or 8 2/3 years, is a fair sentence. I know people want to see him in Gitmo getting eaten by large topical insects and baking in the sun for the next 30 years, but eight years in Federal prison is not an easy sentence. A few days in prison and he’ll be begging to be let outside to do hard manual labor.

    2. No one deserves to be raped or assaulted. You’re not the only one. He absolutely does deserve to be imprisoned, however.

      1. I agree. I have no sympathy for Schaap, but prison rape is not funny and should not happen to anyone.

    3. I am terrified of ever having to go to prison myself. I find that an easy way to stay out of prison is to not do anything illegal. If you do something illegal and end up in prison then whatever is going to happen is gong to happen regardless of what we or anyone else says.

      No, I would never want to see anyone raped. Us making comments that it could happen is nothing but stating the obvious.

    4. I think part of the reason for the response is a bit of gallows’ humor as well as normal human desire for retribution, the sort of attitude behind the psalmist when he wrote, “O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us— he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Ps. 137: 8-9)

    5. Agreed, it disgusts me to no end when people “yuck it up” over prison rape. It’s not funny and I think some people actually do think it is, of course present participants excluded.

      1. I think it says something about our society that it is finally socially unacceptable in all circumstances to joke about the sexual assault of women. I remain hopeful that we will get to that point with regard to men being sexually assaulted by other men too. Otherwise we just continue to perpetuate the diminishment others by coercive and evil deeds.

        (and I have, as mentioned early in the discussion thread, an axe to grind here as I have a very good friend, male, who was sexually assaulted as a young adult by his RC priest.)

        1. Unfortunately, it’s not unacceptable to joke about in all circumstances: there are shock comics who continue to refer to it.

          Rape is horrific whether it happens to a man or woman. I think one reason for the prevalence of jokes about it happening to prisoners is an underlying frustration in our society that criminals get away too easily with their crimes even those who go to jail. Thus there’s a desire for “prison justice”.

        2. “I think it says something about our society that it is finally socially unacceptable in all circumstances to joke about the sexual assault of women.”

          Let me guess– you aren’t from Utah, Arkansas, Kentucky, or West Virginia? People make incest jokes about those places all the time. If I had a dollar for every time people have asked me if I screwed my sister, I could go on vacation or something.

          It doesn’t mean society accepts incest or prison rape. If those things weren’t taken seriously they wouldn’t be as insulting as they are.

          Schaap got off putting women down and ridiculing other men. Now he could receive what is (for a man like him) the ultimate insult.

    6. I do not wish for anyone to be raped either.

      I hope that the conjugal visits will be enough to satisify Jack’s appetite for, and obsession with, sex. It still remains to be seen who will show up for those visits though.

      Sorry, I just can’t seem to find any empathy or sympathy for Jack at all. I believe he has done more harm to Christians and Baptists in particular than good. He has preached a weak god, semi-pelagian, decisional salvation and works sanctification & justification; he has berated women; and taught heresy from the pulpit and in the classroom to thousands. He has accepted worship and walked the way of Diotrephes.

      No, I do not wish him any bodily harm in any form or fashion but I cannot find any pity or redemption for him in my heart either.

      1. Of course, Schaap is the sex offender. Perhaps some prisoners should be concerned about him.

  32. As a woman, and one who eternally condemns all forms of violence against women AND men, I am disgusted by the actions of this so-called “man of God”. How can he be so if he lusted after a girl he knew was underage? He took advantage of her, plain and simple, and there is no excuse for it. I have sexual feelings, too, but there is NO way I would ASSAULT A MINOR or anyone else. Schaap is simply a rapist.

    Women are not the possessions of men, or of anyone. They are daughters of our Heavenly Father, worthy in His sight even IF they are “lost”. I personally believe Schaap is more lost than those he claims to be unsaved. However, that’s just my earthly opinion.

    1. I very much enjoyed the first paragraph – exactly!

      Second paragraph is error, I believe. The Bible indicates that the lost (men AND women) are not children of God. It to those who receive Jesus Christ that become the sons (and daughters) of God. We are adopted at salvation into God’s family.

      Even if a woman is lost, there is no excuse for abuse… they are still a special, one-of-a-kind creation of God.

      1. I think the differentiating term you’re looking for is “made in the image of God”. We may not be children of God by new birth, but we all carry His image from creation, and therefore have inherent value.

  33. So will his best-seller ‘Jack Schaap, Reborn: How I survived the wiles of women and the ways of the world’ be published during or immediately after his tenure at Fed U?

  34. If the plea deal was an attempt on Schaap’s part in trying to avoid the slammer, I would be praying for the guy to get the book thrown at him for these reprehensible actions.

  35. All this talk of a plea made me think of one of his favorite songs.

    Just as I am, with but one plea,
    I fornicated, illegally
    Now 8-10 is my destiny,
    Oh land of Oz, I come, I come

    Just as I am, in misery,
    I showed no grace, or God’s mercy,
    Now all I want is sympathy,
    Oh land of Oz, I come, I come.

    Just as I am, all on my own,
    Deposed, disgraced, and off my throne,
    For my hypocrisy is now known,
    Oh land of Oz, I come, I come.

    Just as I am, once Hyles’ son,
    Anointed as the chosen one,
    Because of sin, it’s now all done,
    Oh land of Oz, I come, I come.

    Just as I am, a shattered glass,
    Now known by all as a big jack-ass,
    Hoping the time will quickly pass,
    Oh land of Oz, I come, I come.

  36. I was there today. He was remanded into US Marshall custody until the plea hearing next week. He waived the right to a grand jury.

      1. Next Wed at 1:30 is the plea hearing. Sentencing after that, even possibly immediately after the plea.

  38. Where are all of the people who were braying that ” We don’t know all the facts!!!! Shut up until we know all the facts!!!” Looks like the facts are settled and acknowledged by all parties involved.

    2 questions. #1 Does FBC Hammond have to worry about civil litigation now? Since their main guy raped a kid that somebody sent to him for “counseling”, I would assume that they might end up selling Jack Hyle’s china, and anything else that isn’t nailed down, to settle the civil suit.

    #2 Does anyone know of any books that I can purchase and send to Mr Schapp in prison? Specifically books filled with helpful tips about how he can make sure he isn’t seducing men while he’s in there. I don’t want him to cause another man to stumble and lust after him. As Brother Dr. Schaap told his flock a plethora of times, what women wear can be a HUGE problem, and even invite assault if they aren’t clothed as modestly as possible! Our fundy friends are constantly reminding us when their pastor rapes a kid that men are weak, and the victims never should have caused the poor, weak pastor to become aroused by their actions and dress. Since this is Schaap’s first bit in the joint, I want him to be as informed as possible so that he can take the steps necessary to avoid causing men to lust after him. I’d hate for him to unwittingly send Bubba the wrong signals.

    1. When you have deep pockets and something bad happens under your watch, you always have to worry about civil litigation.

    2. Question #1:
      I’m sure you noticed that when the story broke, the first thing FBC Hammond did was lawyer up. I’d say that both the church as an institution and the deacons or whoever was supposed to be governing the church are all jointly and severally as liable as can be for actual and punitive civil damages in this thing. And there are likely other victims still to come out, especially if the smell of money is in the air.

      Then there is the matter of possible criminal charges to any church staff or members who failed to comply with mandatory reporting requirements when minors (or at least one minor) were being abused. That’s why when Schaap was fired, they all said they didn’t think he had committed a crime, even though it was rather obvious he had. Yes, sir, the lawyers are calling the shots now at FBCH.

      Question #2:
      It’s not about modesty per se, but I’m considering sending Jack Schaap this book, now that he will be away from that 3000-book library he claimed to have:
      http://www.amazon.com/Christianity-For-Dummies-Richard-Wagner/dp/0764544829#_

      If that’s above his head, my 5-year-old nephew might be willing to lend some of his library.

  40. I have always understood Federal Prison to be the places with Tennis Courts, Aerobics, Movies, etc. Not sure some of the “wishes” people have will be granted there. I was a part of an IFB church for 5-10 years, but I left and got on with life. If you continue to wallow in your past, how does it help your future?

    1. I don’t wish for him to be physically assaulted. I do want to see him be repentant, to stop smirking, excusing, blaming, justifying, minimizing, and pretending.

    2. That is true of some federal prisons (minimum security, nonviolent offenders). Not so much for the rest.

  42. well, it’s official. Everybody happy now?? There’s a lot of sick puppies on this site, BTW.

    1. “Everybody happy now?” That a hypocrite and predator was brought to justice? Absolutely.

      “The wicked will be swept away. The righteous will be GLAD when they are avenged… Then men will say,
      ‘Surely the righteous still are rewarded; surely there is a God who judges the earth.’” (Ps. 58:9-11).

      I am utterly confounded that you seem more upset at people on SFL than you are at what this wolf in sheep’s clothing has done.

      I also think this Psalm describes why we rejoice when a man like Schaap is exposed for the wolf he is:

      “Why do you boast of evil, you mighty man? Why do you boast all day long, you who are a disgrace in the eyes of God? … You love evil rather than good,
      falsehood rather than speaking the truth…Surely God will bring you down to everlasting ruin: He will snatch you up and tear you from your tent; he will uproot you from the land of the living. Selah

      The righteous will see and fear; they will LAUGH AT HIM, saying, ‘Here now is the man who did not make God his stronghold but trusted in his great wealth
      and grew strong by destroying others!’” (Ps. 52:1-7)

        1. The main trouble is that those who follow these men generally don’t know their Bible. They are idolaters, and they don’t even know they have been led astray.

    2. @templewoman, since you have left, you won’t get this response, but…

      You’re right. There are *some* (I don’t think lots) of sick people on here. Sick, and hurt, and wounded by abuse (physical and/or emotional) that they have suffered under churches and pastors that were supposed to be helping them to grow in Christ. Some have left the faith because of their experiences.

      Yes, it is *sick* to hope that Mr Schaap is “tamed” by a cell-mate, or made a girlfriend, or other various sick comments we’ve seen. I suspect, though, based on the discussion about this above, that the majority of the people here find such wishes repugnant, as you do.

      “Everybody happy?” – well, I have mixed emotions; glad that Mr Schaap will no longer be in a position where he can abuse children, and glad that he will no longer be teaching his false doctrine. I’m sad that he, by his actions, has been such a notable and public disgrace to the name of Jesus Christ.

      Finally, this overheard exchange a while back may be instructive:

      Bro 1: “These web sites that expose the dirty laundry of churches are terrible!”

      Bro 2: “Isn’t is even more terrible that there is such a load of dirty laundry to be exposed?”

        1. It wasn’t about Jack Schaap’s situation; it was more of a general statement condemning web sites like this that tell about rumors.

    3. I’m not sure what has you so upset, templewoman. If you’re simply tired of reading posts/comments about the Schaap case, then just skip over the post itself, don’t click on comments, and don’t read the comments. Simple as that. I really don’t think that you’re trying to defend Schaap or men like him, but your general dislike of all comments in this thread is kind of hard to place.

  43. Since I haven’t read anywhere that Schaap listened to rock music with the girl, or took her to a movie, or drank any alcohol, I think he should find a church to lead once he gets out of prison. Fundy Credibility = intact.

  44. Here is a plea deal for you. This is what my former pastor pled to:

    Main Charge: KIDNAPPING 1ST DEGREE (PRINCIPAL) FELON CLASS C

    All these charges below were “consolidated for Judgment”
    FELONY B&E (PRINCIPAL) FELON CLASS H
    ARSON 2ND DEGREE (PRINCIPAL) FELON CLASS G
    COMMUNICATING THREATS (PRINCIPAL) MISD. CLASS 1 MISDEMEANOR SS
    DOMESTIC CRIMINAL TRESPASS (PRINCIPAL) MISD. CLASS 1 MISDEMEANOR SS
    BURNING PERSONAL PROPERTY (PRINCIPAL) FELON CLASS H
    AWDWWITK (PRINCIPAL) FELON CLASS E (Assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill)

    Total time: 6 years 9 months

    I’m betting Jack gets less.

    1. Well, good things are already coming from all this. Because I’m out of here. Too many sick jokes about getting raped in prison. I am for justice. I know how much he got. But this circus arena is not for me.

      1. I don’t think rape jokes are why you are leaving. You started the criticism before anyone made those jokes. And honestly it has been very tame compared to just about any other place you’d hear or read this conversation.

      3. Actually, looking back over the comments, only one person made light reference to him possibly being raped, and in a ‘yeah, that’s probably going to happen’ sense, not in the ‘I can’t wait for that to happen!’ Just about everyone here has said they don’t want him to be degraded in that manner, BUT IF IT HAPPENS (which is a possibility), not many could muster up sympathy for him. Your sense of moral outrage is misguided and misdirected. But if you gotta go, go, and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

        1. Well, I did post that vile, disgusting, wicked, and evil “Guard your bunghole” clip from Office Space.

  46. For all those criticizing and accusing this man of God, making fun of his sentence. I hereby sentence you to 10 hours of mandatory door knocking this Saturday. Be sure to be there early to help set the mood and we might let you stop after 8 hours for having a good spirit.

  47. Here’s is plea deal: https://s3.amazonaws.com/brevia/Schaap-plea.pdf

    The two prosecutors were female. One of his defense attorneys were female.

    He stated that he will plead builty because, “I am, in fact, guilty of that charge.” No weasel words.

    He and the U.S. agree to ten years in prison, five years supervised release, lifetime registration as a sex offender, and forfeiture of the property which contained the images. In return, he will not be charged by the states of Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin nor the Federal prosecutors in those states.

    If I’m reading it correctly, because he confessed the judge could have reduced the charges against him. Because he was an authority figure and took pictures of the event, the sentence would have been enhanced. They split it down the middle and he pled for the higher charge but shorter sentence.

    1. The magistrate ordered him detained after the initial hearing because he was deemed a flight risk and potential risk to others in the community.

      Don’t know what that’s about.

  48. You know, when this first came out a while back, I was happy (not quite the right word, but I can’t think of the right one at the moment) that this man would no longer be pastoring, at least for a while. I was happy that he had finally been taken down, after all that he had said and done, both in the pulpit and in private.
    Now it all just seems so sad. What a waste of what could possibly have been an improved ministry. What a waste of that poor young woman’s childhood. What a waste of those many years of marriage. How sad that it all ends this way.
    I really do hope that things work out and that eventually some of the hurt is lessened for all parties involved. I really feel for Mrs. Schaap, as I see her in a no-win situation, having lost every good thing an IFB woman can hope to have.
    I really hope that this teenager is eventually able to heal from what she has been through.
    It all just seems so horribly wasteful and sad. Maybe, just maybe, this will be enough to get the IFB movement to truly fix what is wrong internally, not just consolidate under another leader and pretend this all never happened.

    1. Excellent summary of what has essentially become the Greek Tragedy of IFB leadership.

      Interestingly, the ancient Greeks recognized a “sin” that we hardly discuss in our culture. “Hubris” was perceived as the ultimate insult and blasphemy to the gods. Essentially, the Greeks deplored the idea of man attempting to usurp God’s place and/or to take on God-like attributes. I think they would have found the fundie title “Man-of-God” to be chock-full of delicious irony. (It even sounds like a character name in one of the ancient tragedies.)

    1. Eddie Wilson from First Baptist Church Hammond publicly stated that what Jack Schaap did was not even going to qualify as a crime!

      http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/lake/14155767-418/no-charges-expected-against-hammond-church-leader.html

      These guys did not even see this as abuse – They just didn’t get it. Same guys who first told the congregation that Schaap would be away for medical reasons.

      This entire leadership is foul and needs to be replaced. What will the rest of Fundystan do about it? I bet many will just want to see them “Just get over it and put it behind them”.

      Same song, different verse

    2. Eddie Wilson from First Baptist Church Hammond publicly stated that what Jack Schaap did was not even going to qualify as a crime!

      http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/lake/14155767-418/no-charges-expected-against-hammond-church-leader.html

      These guys did not even see this as abuse – They just didn’t get it. Same guys who first told the congregation that Schaap would be away for medical reasons.

      This entire leadership is foul and needs to be replaced. What will the rest of Fundystan do about it? I bet many will just want to see them “Just get over it and put it behind them”.

      Same song, different verse

  50. once again the predator controls the silence of the victims – he may get some prison time; but to victims that is not justice – Justice is the Lords and I firmly believe that; however on an earthly level Schaap with his plea deal has managed to still be in control and arrogant as they all are – It’s the most hideous thing to watch

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