594 thoughts on “Breaking Free: Linda Hyles Murphrey Speaks At TEDxOjaiChange”
Enough with the Jack hyles worship there Eddy. Your idol is a false one.
Edward, if you feel that strongly about it,
research it, write a book and publish it.
That’s the American Way!
Would you buy the book ❓ 😛
Well, this has been my first time to write on a blog like this. I can see how you people get so addicted to it. It’s kinda fun. You all can go back to watching and believing Linda. You finally have your witness. Ha Ha Ha. Congrats! Not only do you have deranged family member, you have evidence of more affairs. Wow! How many was that? 50,000?
That’s your problem the Donnie. You are stupid enough to think someone bows down to a man to worship him. And prays to him. So, what year did you get kicked out of HAC, Donnie?
bwhahahaha… I had better sense than to attend a cult indoctrination center.
No, not bow down and worship but I believe the video speaks for itself.
All in fun. And the students did that for every preacher who came to chapel. If it were Lee Roberson it was much more crazy. That’s not worship. At one point were were throwing plastic frisbees till one caught on fire in a chandelier. It was just pressure relief days on Wednesdays. It is sad, however, that some have embarrassed the name of HAC and FBH. I pulled out a long time ago. But I do not think JH was guilty of adultery. Could be wrong, though. Obviously, DH and JS have tainted the reputation and that is something we must live with. It is truly sad. So, to all of that there is no defense. But it’s not worship and most of us never looked at him like that.
Sadly, Edward you’re still brainwashed. Those of us who lived it and had the sense to leave understand it for what it is. Linda has courage and I will tell every person who dares slander her for standing up to shut the f*** up and sit the f*** down.
Becky!
You Go Girl!
~~~Heart
“And the students did that for every preacher who came to chapel”
I was there, that is a bit misleading. Sure other preachers were welcomed and clapped for but rarely did anyone get the applauds, accolades, standing ovation and cheers like Hyles Hitler did.
And here we have a new troll named Edward. Look at how he appears to be arguing with himself. If you recall, the troll’s native habitat is their parent’s basement or local library. Food of choice is Cheetos and Pop-Tarts. The troll lives by the rule that healthy eating is not as important as winning the internet one post at a time.
While trolls are generally harmless they can cause grief for people not used to dealing with them. Remember, do not feed them or get them wet after midnight.
Sounds just like Obama. When he is being exposed, he turns to ridiculing the accusers! What chance does our nation have if Christians have to resort to the same tactics?????
WTFriday does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
Help. I’m getting tag-teamed! How did the referee not see that they didn’t properly tag each other? What’s next, a foreign object in the ring?
Don’t make me rip my shirt off like Hulk Hogan. I’ll get all the Hulkamaniacs after you. Brother.
I doubt very much that Scorpio cares much about his nation. It’s all senseless. They are all here because they have nothing better to do.
I do care about my nation. Maybe you should ask me what my nation is?
Ok, what is your nation?
Is that why your here EDWARD?? Apparently you have nothing better to do?? Judging and yet it’s ok for you to be on here. But everyone else has nothing better to do huh? SMH 🙄
Are you really gonna ask me a question about judging? You have got to be kidding me. I dare you to go back to the top of this subject and see how many people are judging somebody. That’s all this about. Judging. I think you hit the nail on the head. I guess that is why I am here. Because I was disgusted by Linda. Some of us know Linda and its sick that she jumped in now. So, yes I’m judging, I guess. And I think that JS took the biggest fall in the history of churches and hurt many, many people. I think it’s a shame. A disgrace. It’s abuse. But that doesn’t mean tahat I have to believe Linda and her 150 dollar per hour publicity stunt.
Ed – FYI, this video was from April of this year. Well before the Schaap hit the fan. (Sorry I couldn’t resist)
Scorpio, she is cashin in, Dude. Yes, it was before and that’s why I said it was more than she could chew. Here ad worked better than she thought it would. Schaap made her famous again.
Jack Hyles, David Hyles, Jack Schaap, Joe Combs (this is just the beginning)…that church/college has been responsible for releasing 100s of pedifiles into churches/schools all over this country!
Dude, you’re an asshole. Try reading her credentials. She’s a motivational speaker and helps professionals around the country. This is what she does for a living. The only reason it’s on the internet now is because it’s the right time for it to be shared. So that those of us who have lived the hell of this cult or who have any secrets about the fundies can relate and heal from the garbage. So, take your troll bullshit and hit the road.
Becky Murphy, Is it really necessary to resort to the world’s vulgar language? Can you not express yourself without profanity? No wonder you left the fundamental churches. You didn’t feel comfortable around people who didn’t talk in such an ungodly, unChristianlike manner. If you are a Christian, you should know better. If you aren’t, then you should search out someone who can lead you to Christ because from your blog, you certainly sound like you need Him.
Dear Eddie,
We have all moved on to other things today.
Sincerely,
Victoria
😎
I’m confused. If you have moved on to other things, then why we’re you reading this post?
But have a good day just the same.
Thanks
Shelton, is that you?
❓
Is that a serious question? No
John?
❓
Edward
My daddy was a cult leader! He had 50,000 wonderful people following him. He had many, many girlfriends and my momma didn’t care. He had a mistress, too! He hated my momma! Exept when he made me and my three siblings. But I broke free and I can help you. Click on the pay button for 150.00 per session rate. http://www.coachingthebestyou.com/
Good one, Edward. I saw that before, as well.
Get a room!
We have a room. Your room. So bust out the Cheetos hulk dude.
Finally some company. Pull up a chair. Ever play WoW?
Everyone kept saying, “why would she lie.” Well, let’s see. 150 per hour would put her at about 312,000.00 yearly if she can drum up enough business. Um! That’s true concern. And don’t forget she did say she loved the lavish lifestyle.
Thanks for the invite. Your much nicer than it first seemed. Too bad I don’t trust you.
You can trust me Ed. Until I pull out the handcuffs and poppers.
Good point, Edward.
After all, “shock value” sells!
Who would sign up to pay her $150 if she said, “I had a wonderful Christian childhood. My father was pastor of the greatest church in the world. He showered me with lavish gifts, gorgeous clothes all my life. He even graciously paid for a house, car and new furniture for me when I got married.
I have a very beautiful and loving mother, two sisters and a brother. Life is good.”
That would have been the end of her story — and no $300,000+ per year income!
Right on Sydney. It doesn’t change the current situation in Hammond. Jack Schaap did more damage than the world will ever know. But that doesn’t men Linda is telling the truth. And the fact that people give her an ear is beyond me. They are just looking for the dirt. I have a feeling she took the video down because it got so much play over the Schaap thing and she bit off more than she could chew. Furthermore, no one replies about the fact that her daughter, whose name we shall protect, went back. There is a lot to that.
Thank you! I too, was new to this blog & began telling of the lies in Linda’s speech, for which I was massively bombarded with Linda “worshippers” calling me names & treating me with hate and disdain. They don’t want to know the truth. They want the lies to go on.
And I thought this was a site for “Stuff Fundies Like.” I know of no fundamentalists that “like” any of this! Nearly everyone on this site is a fundamentalist hater. Go figure!
Sydney – This web site is a satirical look at fundamentalism in the independant baptist churches. Satire is your friend if you know how to use it.
Really??? Have you been reading these comments? Maybe they should be told it’s satire because there is nothing satirical about it. All I read is a bunch of angry, bitter, fundamentalist haters venting & dumping on anyone who has the audacity to say anything good about FBCH, any fundamental church, or anyone who attends one. Funny you would think this is satire for it clearly is not.
Sydney, you must realize how ridiculous some fundamentalists are!
Absolutely! However, the comments on this blog, relating to the speech given by Linda Hyles Murphrey, as well as those relating to Jack Schaap, and others, are not said in satire!
I come from a very funny family, but even if you’re the brut of the joke, everyone knows it’s funny.
This stuff isn’t funny. Only a comment here & there even sound humorous on any level.
It sounds like a bunch of fundamentalist haters who are using lies and sins to promote their adgenda.
I find it all so sad that Christians have to resort to this kind of disagreements when we all should be fighting the same fight — against the Devil.
No Victoria. In Sydney’s world, WE are the problem. We’re just bitter.
Victoria is right. Some fundamentalist are ridiculous. Some. But that does not mean that all are. But there are rediculous people and leaders everwhere, not just fundamentalism. Just pick your group and google it and add “pastor arrested” and you will see. And the truth is, fundamentalist wave the highest standard, therefore, we should have the highest standards. There is plenty of shame to go around and we, as a group. Deserve the critism. There have been some terrible atrocities and is shouldn’t be. It just shouldn’t be! But that does no mean that there are not good people who love the Lord and I believe that is the greater whole of fundamentalism. The site is definitely not fundy friendly. And that’s their right. I would guess that many of the people venting on sites like this have been hurt. Perhaps they are victims, too. I only wish they could see THIER own inconsistencies. Scorpio uses sexual humor on a site supposedly heralding sexual purity. I don’t find it funny. Nor does the Lord. God does not laugh at Jack Schaaps sin, mine, yours, or Scorpios making a mockery of sin. I think it’s time to be quiet. The Bilbe says its a shone to speak of those things done in secret. This country has lost is blush. And unfortunately, some of our fundamental leaders have played a part in this loss. It’s a shame.
“Victoria is right. Some fundamentalist are ridiculous. Some. But that does not mean that all are.”
With that said, what about today’s post subjects?
**crickets**
There are lies and there is deception. These are often used interchangeably (this should NOT be) but in Bible they are different.
Linda is being accused of lying (by some) but in reality if she is doing it for the money (as some claim) it’s deception. That’s different than just lying.
As far as to why someone lies, it’s because they are afraid (fearful) of the consequences of telling the truth.
Genesis 26:7 And the men of the place asked him of his wife; and he said, She is my sister: for he FEARED to say, She is my wife; lest, said he, the men of the place should kill me for Rebekah; because she was fair to look upon.
Fear is not an excuse for lying. Linda was not afraid for her life. She gave her speech in April of this year. Her dad has been dead for 12 years now. This speech was not given out of fear. It was given out of spite and hatred.
By the way, Daniel, the verse you quoted has nothing whatsoever to do with the situation.
And, Abraham was not excused for his lying any more than Linda should be!
Sydney,
You have no right to accuse Linda of lying.
Who are YOU to call her a liar, which is what you are doing!
And why do you labor over trying to prove that what she is saying is false. Why would anyone want to cause such strife in their life? It’s mute for you to take the stance that you do. There are countless individuals, countless evidences, countless circumstances that prove that the accusations of the actions of Jack Hyles are true.
The same goes for Jack Schaap.
My dear Sydney, sit back. Remember, read, look, listen, pray, and open your heart to the facts of the matters that are before you. Calm down that haughty spirit. Humble yourself. Come before the Lord and with a willing heart request guidance like you have never requested it before. Isolate yourself and think for yourself. Be alone with God and know that you are responsible for your words. Stop your hurtful words that are directed to those who have been hurt by these men!
While truth is truth, whether out of the mouth of Jack Hyles, Linda Murphrey, Jack Schaap, or satan himself, truth is truth and will continue to be truth and so goes lies. Lies are lies from whatever source. Be mindful and have the discretion to differentiate between the two and if you have no supporting grounds in which to make judgement, then you have no right to judge.
So, my dear Sydney, take that quiet moment for yourself. You will find a better way of living, a better awareness, and an overall change in your aspects of life if you truly are yielded to understanding love and life and the goodness of God!
I wish you well!
~~~Heart
Heart, you are another of the angry, bitter, fundamentalist haters that are so blinded by your hatred that you can’t believe anything that doesn’t serve your purpose.
I have gone over a whole list of lies directly from the transcript of Linda’s speech, and refuted each and every one of them. If you choose to believe her, be my guest, but for you to close your mind to the truth is idiocy!
By the way, didn’t you read the comments made earlier today that this site is supposed to be a satire. Well, there is nothing satirical about your comments. You’re just thriving on hatred. You don’t want the truth. You only want to believe the anger & lies being spread.
You need to get in the Bible, pray & ask God to open your eyes to the truth and not just the negative gossip spread by a bitter daughter. But, I guess you can relate more with spreading the anger & bitterness than with the truth.
Each of your earlier comments has been so annoying that I wouldn’t even finish reading them. You were just ranting about things you know nothing about.
Truth is truth, whether or not you want to believe it.
This site my be indeed been created in and for satire but there’s discussion of real issues HERE.
Remember there’s a Bible principle in effect here.
Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
Daniel,
Yes! These are real issues that effect real lives and real feelings! If there is any “genre” of discussion that should be treated “REAL” it is the discussion of how the matters of God and Christianity are handled!
We must take a stand in order to stop these horrible actions that men like Jack Hyles, Jack Schaap, Joseph and Evangeline Combs, and numerous individuals take!
This looks like an interesting read. I have not read it but I hope to. Here is the link:
The verse I quoted was representing a Bible principle. People lie when they are afraid of the consquences. That’s a Bible fact. How many verses do you need? Why not study it yourself?
In light of this Bible FACT, if linda is lying she would be doing so for a this reason, I don’t see it that way so the only other alternative is she is being deceptive (which includes lying) for some reason. Prove THAT REASON and you’ll prove she is lying (if she is)
If anyone thinks she is lying. Prove it!
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
It’s pretty obvious.
What’s sad is that thanks to Jack Hyles (Hitler) Linda has taken up with other ways to “cope” with what happened. She never even said if she was saved or what she has done with the Lord Jesus Christ.
Doesn’t anyone even consider this or care?
Edward,
Let me get this straight. You said, (putting words in Linda’s mouth) “He hated my momma! Exept [sic] when he made me and my three siblings.”
Are you saying that because Jack Hyles had sex with his wife this proves he loved her? Seriously?
I wouldn’t worry to much about Edward. Jack is long gone, his reputation/legacy questionable at best, his life’s work is left shamed, his family is broken and disfunctional. Edward can defend this madness all he wants but the truth has been revealed. Jack Hyles, Schaap and all the other’s hiding behind a thin veil of religion will one day have to answer for their actions. The Edwards can talk and defend the actions of their heros all they want but the truth has come out.
At least you are polite. Yes, Jack is long gone. And Schaap was long gone a while back, too. He was on a slippery path to this tragedy. But that does not convict JH. And neither does Linda. But you are right about the family part. Truly sad.
Job 28:11 He bindeth the floods from overflowing; and the thing that is hid bringeth he forth to light.
I agree. It is sad. I pray that the FBC will find a good Godly man to lead and that all the families involved will find peace and heal from all that they have endured.
Well, we agree about that, too. Whoever the man is, he will surely have his work cut out for him and will need the Lord in an unbelievable way. And yes, the victims are the ones who hurt the most. The girl, her family, and a lot of people who trusted him. And I’m sad that the actions of DH and JH have tainted the reputation of JH. I really believe, though I know I could be wrong, that he was clean. But it’s hard to argue it now for sure due to this lates tragedy.
Can anyone say. Tiger Woods? Remember how the girls were coming out of the woodwork. Why? Because every affair left a victim. A victim who felt shame, guilt, and rejection. Where are the victims of Jack Hyles? If it were true that there wer 19 or whatever affairs, why has there not been a single girl come forward? No pictures. No messages. Nothing. Lies about letters that were never produced. But no evidence. It can’t be hidden that well. Just ask Dave and Jack jr.
Yes, we remember these men:
Tiger Woods
J.F. Kennedy
Ted Kennedy
Jesse Jackson
Bill Clinton
Jack Hyles
Roman Polanski
MOHAMMAD
Well, aren’t you funny???? NOT!!!
Sydney,
My list was not intended to cause you to laugh. It was and is a serious list that Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap can be categorized in.
Edward, do you qualify for this list?
Do most men fall into this list? I would venture to say NO! We live by self-implied moral standards! That is a good thing! That is something in which you can take pride!
But once you have “sinned” in this manner, well, you fall under this category and all the repercussions of your actions should fall upon you!
Jack Schaap will now face criminal justice procedures and if we go further should become a registered sex offender, so that our land, more importantly, our children will be safe from him and offenders like him.
Jack Schaap’s 10 year celebration at the church boasts his accomplishments in a YouTube video, but all of that boasting of accomplishments amounts to nothing after the fact that he sexually abused a child who came to him and trusted his judgement. His endeavors throughout the years should be wiped out.
Saving, or leading thousands to Christ does not give you the permission to hurt one little girl! Nothing gave Jack Schaap that right! NOTHING!
Shame on Jack Schaap! Shame on you Sydney! Shame on you Edward!
Think of the hurting people, from the most extremely hurt, to even yourselves. At this moment both of YOU are hurting too!
Hearts are heavy. The hearts that supported the Jacks all these years and the hearts that left that cultist distorted way of living.
Hope now, for a better today, and do your best to make sure this does not happen again! Don’t assist Jack Schaap in his actions because if you jump to his defense, well, that certainly does not make you any better than him.
I went to church that Wednesday night right after his dismissal. I ran into an old college friend. From her mouth was a flood of excuses for Jack Schaap, while standing beside her was her daughter… WE KNOW her words would have been much different if it would have been her daughter that he had abused!
Use your brain!
~~~Heart
Uh, excuse me! I didn’t defend jack Schaap one time. So don’t be so ignorant.
Sydney,
My words are not driven by anger as I have very mindfully stated them, but they are filled with concern for the past of all those people who these men have hurt and for the future of the possible victims. You only are taking in what you want to and not really reading what I have said.
Your words continue to prove, by your own accord, in stating that you have not even finished reading statements, that you refuse to know the truth.
This site is, as with any other site, a free speech network. So your reference to it being a satire is also mute.
Whether you think it apropos for you to turn my words and advice that I gave to you and use it to advise me, well, I only take it as I gave it as I continue to humble myself as I approach His throne. I will not let Jack Schaap slither away quietly without accountability, no more than I would any man who did what he did!
I have found my peace and purpose. I hope you find yours. And unless you have anything to say that is worthy and not mimicked, not evident by cultish conditioning and not denial, then I do not find your babble and ill-hearted words of any merit.
I speak of what I speak of, through my own experiences under their preachings, through church membership, through HAC enrollment and through all the years of experiences in the Fundamental Baptist Church. Of that which I know nothing of, I do not claim to be the wiser, unlike you and your accusations of Linda. But I speak of first-hand knowledge.
Sydney, I’ve wished you well. I wish you well again, and I my heart goes out to you as you continue to follow blindly and live in a state of ignorance. My hopes are that one day the blinders will be removed from your vision and that at that point, it will not be at a greater cost than those who have already been given their vision back!
Think about it Sydney, we are sisters in Christ, and brothers. That being said, we do have the right to differ on matters that are preferences. We do not have the right to differ on truths. We battle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities… against spiritual wickedness in high places…
How and with who will you choose your battle Sydney?
~~~Heart
Yes, we remember these men:
Tiger Woods
J.F. Kennedy
Ted Kennedy
Jesse Jackson
Bill Clinton
Jack Hyles
Roman Polanski
MOHAMMAD
Yes, we remember these men:
Tiger Woods
J.F. Kennedy
Ted Kennedy
Jesse Jackson
Bill Clinton
Jack Hyles
Roman Polanski
MOHAMMAD ……………JACK SCHAAP!!! Yes, they all committed adultery after having been in a position of authority. The biggest shame of all is that Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap represented the church, represented God and boasted such high moral standards from an ordained by God position! They have been hypocrites! It’s such a sad thing to read that Edward defends along with Sydney. Stop defending the MEN, hold true to God, but not these pitiful men. Especially the pedophile Jack Schaap!
Call it like it is people. Prosecute to the fullest extent of the law because believe me, if YOU were sitting in his congregation and YOU were the one that had committed this horrible “sin”, well, YOU would be in cuffs and judgement would fall upon YOU in a heart beat! In fact, Jack Schaap would proport to hate the sin and love the sinner, while making sure that you were banished and put into your assigned place of shame.
Stop defending Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap and stop badgering Linda. The pain that these men created is real!
Open your blinded eyes!
~~~Heart
Heart!! WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!! HUGE THANKS!!!!!!!!
(But why do I get this feeling Edward and Sydney still won’t get it??!!)
Robin,
Thank you for your support. It is a sad scenario.
And yes, your feeling is right… Edward and Sydney still won’t get it because they too are victims of this cultist conditioning! They have fallen prey to these predators of the faith.
We, who have escaped their control, also fight the conditioning that was pounded into those formidable years. Yet, we, however, have learned or are learning to re-condition our thought processes in order to decide our way clearly and progress.
Unless Edward, Sydney and the likes of those manipulated individuals remove themselves from this unhealthy environment and place themselves in a good loving atmosphere that truly expresses the love of God and the goodness of the life that He has given, then Edward and Sydney and all those misguided Independent Fundamental Baptist members will never ever know what it is to think for themselves. They will not know the feeling of deciding between right from wrong because they have thought it through. No, they will lean on the church and let the church, or one person make those decisions for them. In turn, they will blindly support that church or that preacher to the bitter end, even though the TRUTH is right before their eyes and the eyes of the world!
We must not forget that we are all accountable for our own actions! Those who place themselves in positions are great authority are accountable for themselves AND accountable to others! Such is the way of life!
With great privilege comes even greater responsibility! Jack Schaap must be responsible for his actions! In all reality, right at this moment, wherever he is, whatever he is doing, well, he must be in such deep pain, sorrow, anguish, remorse, humility, fear, regret and the lowest of low in the knowledge of the fact that he has caused so much pain to so many people.
Just think how he must be feeling when he is on his knees, head to the ground, before the Creator of this amazing universe to which he DELIBERATELY manipulated the authority of his position, as the pastor of one of the largest churches in America, possibly the world, in order to put his hands on this child!
It was no “happen-stance”, they were premeditated rendezvous. The relationship was on-going. Which means, preaching from the pulpit on one day, while secret sessions on another, then back to preaching from the pulpit again and the routine continued.
No, my dear people, all of you wonderful people, on whichever side you find yourself on at this time, please realize the TRUTH of the matter at hand. Free yourself from anyone’s “conditioning of your mind” and think for yourself. The TRUTH is set before your eyes. It shall set you free indeed and in finding that freedom, no matter how hard it is to face the TRUTH, you will eventually heal and grow and make better decisions for the future that is before you and the future of your children, which in deed is the future of our great land!
This is not an easy task, but Edward, Sydney and all of you silent Fundamental Baptist church members, please know that no one wants another injustice by wrongfully accusing anyone of any sin. No, we are just pointing out the TRUTH…
YOU CANNOT DENY THE TRUTH… if you do… where does that leave YOU?
~~~Heart
Heart,…Unlike alot of you, I was blessed to have figured out the IFB Pastor that was brought into our church this past year before any damage could be done to me. We were lied to about what he was. I left as soon as he said he was an IFB. I started looking up what an IFB was and spent hours online and asking my Pastor friends and they told me to get my family out of there and don’t look back. From what I have been told and what I have read, these people are SICK and destroy church’s and people’s lives. I am mortified!! And don’t think for one minute that everytime I pray, I thank God for opening my eyes immediately! I have heard that recently some of the people are starting to see what kind of person he is and they don’t like him too much now. Some families have left already right after I did. I am going to another church that is loving and Godly and the people there are so sweet. God will deal with these IFB Pastors for what they are doing in HIS name. It just breaks my heart that the followers of these people are so blinded and brainwashed. So no one can say I am bitter or angry because I am NOT! God removed me before anything could happen to me so therefor I have no reason to be angry or bitter. God showed me what these IFB’ers are and that I should leave and so I did.
Robin,
😀 I am so thrilled to know that you removed yourself and your family from that type of leadership! I’m glad that you will never be conformed to that way of thinking and that way of judging yourself and others!
Keep your sweet loving heart and a love from above in all that you do in your life! Remember that everything we experience is learning and living. Don’t ever stop experiencing life and become a drone under the dictatorship of someone who is self-righteous and self-important and above everyone else!
Girl, you have a wonderful and intelligent head on your shoulders! I’m so glad that you have thought this through and made the decision for yourself! I am proud of you! Keep bright and share the goodness of what you have learned. Stay positive and uplifting but always cautious for yourself, your children, your family and those around you.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. It makes me smile!
Hugs OOO
~~~Heart :heart:
Dear Heart:
You wrote: ‘…a good loving atmosphere that truly expresses the love of God and the goodness of the life that He has given …’
That sums what, in my opinion, is the precise strategy that will purge this blight from us.
The more evident it is that God’s Spirit and grace are with us and not with congregations that are essentially sub-Christian, the more those aberrant congregations will be abandoned by their adherents.
This is Biblical.
‘You will again distinguish between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him’ [Malachi 3:18].
We can offer preaching that comes from the text, that proclaims the heart of God, that casts a vision of life framed around the death and resurrection of Christ, that gives healthy direction for life, and that breathes faith with every breath.
I never heard this in my Bob Jones University days. The bottom line, we have SO much more to offer!
Christian Socialist
Christian Socialist,
The world needs more stand-up compassionate men like you! Don’t ever stop bringing forth every aspect of life that you just pointed out… from the loving aspect to the strong posture… I hope you share these facets of life, giving each of them their proper places in our lives and the permission to enjoy them all!
Love and loving is of God and while the determinations of sin are also present, let us not live in complete judgement under tyrannical entities and their atrocities.
Let’s find an even balance, after all, these are all creations and blessings of the Most High for us to enjoy and experience. If we falter along the way, let’s help our fellow human being up and give them assistance to continue on the right track, in a loving way, with encouragement and faith in their capabilities, to regain their composure and fight the good fight while enjoying His blessings throughout life!
Let’s not, however, enable those double-minded, evil hearts who’s intentions they, themselves cloak with the very fabric that was paid for by the greatest story ever told!
Stand strong and true Christian Socialist! Like I said, the world needs more stand-up compassionate men like you! We have a few in this forum and for all of them, I too am grateful! Thank you all!
~~~Heart
Thank you Heart 🙂 Just be praying that God will open the eyes of the rest of the people at my previous church. I still pray for them daily. I am so so thanful that God showed me what an IFB was and got me out of there. I don’t know if I could have handled the mess that they cause 🙂
Robin,
You have no idea how relieved I am that you have avoided it all! Now get out there and enjoy your church and it’s endeavors as you enjoy life both in church and in your daily living! You’ve got some spunk girl! Share that with the people around you because that is a great gift! I’m sure you are contagious! Teach others exactly what you have learned in a style that is all your own! Thanks for sharing!
~~~Heart
I never knew how stupid you people are until a read your posts, you misquote me from like two posts earlier. Just totally ignorant. And so, good bye. Sorry for the pain someone must have caused you.
Edward,
It is clear that your heart has been touched by what you have read here. I can see that goodness that wants to come out and be empathetic to those of us who stand firm in our views of these situations both past and present. I want to thank you for that! Thank you for expressing your sorrow for the pain that these men have caused us.
And even though you call us ignorant and stupid on one hand… you ease that blow with the sympathetic phrase expressing sorrow for our pain. I think we’ve made some progress here!
As I mentioned to Sydney, the true battle is against “spiritual wickedness in high places”. Let’s stay focused on becoming better and learning from mistakes, in order to fight the real war against wrong and not each other.
You are a good man with a good heart. I would hope that you would continue to search out the truth with an open heart and listen to what everyone is saying here and across the board.
Don’t run off angry and unsettled. Stay and share and learn and grow. Righteous indignation is righteous. Learn what spurs your indignation, then righteously, you can fight against true evil and you can support that which is good! OK? 🙂
~~~Heart
Edward, they only see & hear what they want to. They do not care about the truth. They only care about any dirt they can smear on other good godly Christians. Just because a few fundamentalists have done wrong, they lump all in with the few. You’re right, they are stupid.
Sydney – Assuming for a minute you are not a Poe, because the more you post the more I think you cannot be real, upthread you criticized Becky Muphy for using vulgar language saying it is unChristlike. Yet here you call all of us stupid. How Christ-like is that?
Sydney=Hypocrite! It’s ok for Sydney to call names and critisize all those who do not agree with the great Sydney. All one has to do is google IFB and know every filthy thing about them. No need to argue about it because they are what they are. It is the truth but as Jack Nicholson says “They can’t handle the truth” They are so brainwashed and blinded that they will not see. God says He will harden hearts and that they won’t see what was in front of them all along. That is what God has done to Sydney and the rest of the Koolaid drinkers 😉
Robin – we aren’t the ones with the hard hearts — spreading all the dirt that can be dug up of things that may, or may not even be true. You only believe what you believe because of your hard heart & hatred toward fundamental Christians. What you need to realize is that whatever church you attend (assuming you go to church at all) has more problems per capita than FBCH by far! I never excuse sin, but I also am not out to harm everyone who has ever been influenced for good by those who have sinned.
Just look at all those in the Bible who committed major sins (not that any sin is minor) and whom God used to do great works for Him. Moses only struck the rock twice instead of once (as God has instructed him) and for that he was not allowed to go into the Promised Land. Wow! Even though he was allowed to lead the Children of Israel through the desert for those 40 years, he was still punished. And the Children of Israel were made to wander in the wilderness for 40 years because of their complaining!
Look at David and all the good work for God he did after his sinning with Bathsheba, yet he too was punished (by God). Then there was Abraham sinning with Hagar, which has caused the entire problem in the middle east today. Sin will always be punished. It’s just not our job to act as God in the degree and method of punishment necessary.
The way you talk sounds like, if you think a person who has sinned is not being punished enough, then it’s up to you to complain, gripe and try to tear down any good that person may have done in the past until you think they are punished enough. Well, you will never be satisfied. Anyone who was saved through the ministry of Jack Schaap is just as saved even though he has sinned and forfeited his right to pastor FBC, as well as any other punishment God imposes on him.
I keep hearing so many on this blog talking how small our God is that He needs men to spread His Word. Well, that’s exactly what you think about your god needing you to spread the negatives about anyone with whom you may or may not have even had any contact.
You are not omniscient, but my GOD is. You are not omnipresent, but my GOD is. You are not all powerful, but my GOD is.
God knows all and punishes ALL SIN — that includes yours and mine, as well as Jack Schaap’s.
Sydney,
In your rant, you failed to appropriately understand the issue at hand.
You addressed GOD’S REDEEMING EFFECTS of those men in the Bible who had sinned. You are not looking at how their sins immediately effected those people around them and God’s intended will.
We are addressing the SIN of those men, their ACCOUNTABILITY and how their actions effect the people around them that they were guiding, as their shepherd.
Specifically, we are speaking of Jack Hyles, Jack Schaap, and all these IFB fornicators in highly regarded positions.
So… our debate is not on the same platform, if you will. You stand firm on what you have just pointed out that God can use individuals even after they have made a mistake and we don’t argue that justice, but as with Moses, God definitely imposes repercussions that are indeed a form of discipline for having sinned, as in not letting Moses enter the promise land. And so goes it with these men. They will and should, justly so, pay the price for their sin. You said it yourself!
And when God prohibited Moses from entering the promise land, it was not swept under the proverbial rug, it was not kept a secret, it was not hushed, it was not covered up, no… everyone was made aware of his “sin”, everyone knew, everyone speculated and talked, assumably so, and I’m sure there were individuals, just like you, that supported Moses and proclaimed his greatness. But…
… that would have meant, in proclaiming Moses’s greatness and in proclaiming to support him, well, that would mean that you were standing in opposition to God’s decision and discipline applied.
Sydney… that is where you stand now as you support the greatness of Jack Schaap and in supporting this man.
He, like Moses, was possibly inept to lead.
He, like Moses, was given a chance to lead, by God.
He, like Moses, by God, accomplished great things.
He, like Moses, was blessed.
He, like Moses, sinned.
AND…
He, like Moses, was judged by God.
He, like Moses, paid or will pay the price for his sin.
And we, who have been effected, are privy to all of this because it has effected us all.
Sure, the goodness of good actions will have had their effects and that is a good thing, no one denies that.
But, the evil of sin and it’s wicked web and entangles will have their effects also and that is a horrible, horrible sin, especially when it is within church walls!!
Sydney, you need to bring yourself to our platform and honestly look at what we are trying to point out here and accomplish. We are not wanting to wait for GOD’S REDEEMING EFFECTS after the fall out, no we are hoping to have GOD’S FULL AND BLESSED EFFECTS before the men sin. We are showing the SIN of these men in hopes to prevent more hurt hearts and even more importantly physically hurt bodies that have been put through physical events that should never ever ever take place!
Sydney, open your mind. Understand this. Stop being so hard. Your spirit is tainted and you sound full of maliciously placed anger. That should not be the case. You are attacking people. Calm your spirit… be still and know that HE is God! I’m praying for you that you will truly know the Omniscience of our God, the Omnipower of our God, the Omnipresence of our God, but bringing it down to what we understand… the LOVE of Our God!
I’m here, I’m reading, I’m listening. I’m willing to open my heart and my mind, I did that for years and for years I was let down, time after time and now with Jack Schaap’s “SIN” once again, the IFB movement has failed miserably.
Sydney, do you dare to support “MOSES” while God is against his “SIN”?
Sydney, do you dare to support “JACK” while God is against his “SIN”?
Hate the sin, love the sinner, but don’t take sides against God’s justice!
Once again, I wish you well and peace of mind that only comes with a renewing of the mind in the trueness of God!
~~~Heart
I’m sorry, Heart, but you are missing my entire point. The point is not to excuse or hide sin. The point is for us not to be the judge & jury on that sin. That is God’s place. With the anger evoked in the comments I’ve read, so many are taking God out of the equation & and putting the duty on themselves to “reveal” the sins of others. That is God’s place, and God’s alone. By spreading the “news” of sins we are only harming others. It has nothing to do with siding with Jack Schaap. I don’t excuse anything he has done. And I definitely don’t agree with what he has done. I’m simply saying that getting so angry that you feel you have the sole responsibility of exposing all for everyone to know is not our place. God will take care of any “exposing of sin” He deems necessary.
Life is too short to spend it filled with hate and spreading that hate to others. Leave it to God and He will take care of everything.
For those who have been hurt by this situation, I am extremely sorry, but it doesn’t help by going on and on about every little detail that ever may or may not have happened. If you don’t like what’s going on, get out of it, but trying to proselyte others is not the way to further your life.
So many think it their mission to convert everyone to having the same standards as they have. That is no more acceptable than for those who are opposed to the standards to try and demand others “open their eyes” to their way of thinking.
I find that the difference between most Baptist churches is their level of standards. There is a difference between standards and convictions. A conviction is something you are willing to die for. A standard is a level of living and a choice. It is not a requirement for salvation, or even a requirement for church membership. So many who have left fundamental churches have left due to the differences of opinion on what their standards of living should be. I have no problem with that. I do, however, have a huge problem with those who have left fundamental churches (or any church for that matter) and then turned their differences of opinion to matters of fact, and make it their mission in life to convert others who may have a different standard than them.
When I heard of the situation in FBC, I was deeply hurt. I felt the pastor had betrayed his calling of God and the people who are led by God to follow his leadership. I have never thought of any pastor as a perfect person. After all, we are all sinful human beings, however, being put in that position of leadership gives you greater responsibilities, and with such causes the Devil to fight all the harder to get you to fall.
My conclusion is that in this case the Devil has won. However, we, as Christians, need to join together in the fight against the Devil, and for the furthering of the cause of Christ.
Yes, God does use men to do His work. No, He doesn’t have to, but He chose to. I find it quite humbling to think that God loves me so much that He wants me to be a part of His work. How about you????
Heart,
I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate the attitude with which you communicate. There is a graciousness about your replies as you speak the truth in love.
Pastor’s Wife,
Aw… Thank you! It’s within us all… you know… the urgent feeling like when we see the car coming and we rush to hold the child back so that child won’t get hurt by the oncoming car… The fear of a bad outcome is the driving force and then the joy of having prevented the child from harm brings a smile to both the defended and defender!
If I can reach out in love, even though it may hurt at times, the full intent and purpose of my efforts are for benefits that are bathed in truth and if I falter or have become misguided, I would hope that another, such as myself, would find the same efforts in defending me against harm! It is within us if we seek it out, the goodness to perform goodness! Just like you! Thank you for sharing your goodness with me!
You’ve made me smile and blessed my heart! Thank You Pastor’s Wife!
~~~Heart
I think I’m going to be sick. 🙂
thartofglass,
And I’m guessing this is where the acclaimation of satire rears it’s ugly head?
Albeit, all I have to say, is that I have worked the Chicago bus ministries via IFB and I have seen how these children have been treated. I have worked with the homeless and seen their lowly states of being and how they have been treated. I have seen the separation of A Sunday School and B Sunday School and Spanish church for that matter, creating a hierarchy of social and economic status. Ecetera. I have seen and felt the pain.
Bottom line again here, is that we are all in this together. We deserve to be treated fairly and lovingly and with an understanding that is patient and Christ-like. Do you not agree? And if you do not, it doesn’t change my way and approach in these matters. We are all responsible for the children. And… aren’t we Christians, God’s Children?
I hope you feel better! ~ 😆
~~~Heart
No worries. I was just responding to the warm loving spirit going on here. Almost made me feel gooey. Not complaining just feeling the love 🙂
thartofglass,
Awwww…. I think I would call that… being a brat! 😛 lol and well, that’s ok. I’m pretty sure right about now that you were a lil mischievous “child”! lol
Be good now and go find some worthy efforts that you can get your hands busy with!
Thanks for lightening up the spirit of things… brat! lol
Live, Love, Laugh, Sing, Dance and be a brat sometimes!
~~~Heart
Syndney, How dare YOU of all people to say ASSume I go to church at all??? Do you know what it means to ASSume something? You call yourself a Christian but yet you judge me? You are nothing but a hypocrite. I do not hate anyone. I hate their sin as the bible (you know GODS WORD??) says to do. Why don’t you get your head out of the sand and see what these people are. You keep making false accusations agains’t me and you don’t even know me. I choose to NOT be brainwashed and I choose to NOT be in a cult. So therefor I left when my previous church stupidly briught in an IFB pastor. I don’t hear all this stuff about any other pastors except IFB pastors. And the sad thing is your so far gone in the brainwashing that you may never come out of it!!!! But just because I disagree with you does not make me BITTER, HATEFUL,NON CHRISTIAN, UNCHURCHED. But it’s people like YOU that make me NOT want to go to church because if being a Christian is what you say you are, then I don’t want to be anything like you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And one thing they each have in common are voices who had affairs. Jack
Schaap was caught red handed. Where is the lady who accuses Jack Hyles. I do not stand here to say it didn’t happen. I’m just saying you have NOTHING. LATER
Don’t take my Cheetos as you’re leaving.
??? if the female is a willing, active participant in Jack Hyles affair why would there be a woman accuser? Why must it be a woman accuser at all?Jacks Wife has a vested self interest in not saying anything. Yet when the husband of the woman Jack was haveing the affair with makes the accusation he is villified, demonized and made out to be a liar. Why don’t you ask the Nischik children and see what they thought of Jack Hyles?
Here is Judy’s letter to Jack Hyles:
“As I am sure you are well aware, my husband and I are moving to the Los Angeles area this month. The culmination of many events in our lives brought us to the decision that we have made to move. By this letter I wish to express my thoughts on the role you have played in these events over the past fifteen-plus years.
“I remember hearing once that it is not wise to put anything in writing that one would not want the entire world to see. (You know well the horrifying effects doing so can cause, don’t you?) That thought prompted me to write you on my leaving, for it would be the pleasure of my life to have the entire world see in print my feelings on you, your establishment and your gross perversion of the sacred role of Pastor.
“For over fifteen years I have watched and learned much from the circus that you have performed with the lives of those I love most in the world. With your own insecurities and personal failures as your driving force, you have quite simply played havoc with an entire church, some of my dearest friends and worst of all, my family. The saddest realization is that it has all been under the guise of Christianity. How I emerged from such a pit of secret sin, manipulation, and hypocrisy with the slightest interest in my professed religion at all, I do not know.
“Actually, I have become quite a person with these many lessons of life under my belt and must admit that you were quite a teacher. You exemplify everything in this life that I do not want for myself, my marriage or my children. I thank God for giving me the sense to decide not to become one of the neurotic puppets you employ. That decision and my close friendship with your ex-daughter-in-law (you remember her, don’t you?) helped salvage what was left of my self-respect. In an incredibly short amount of time I have healed much and think I would surprise even you with the strength I have gained.
“Incidentally, Paula and I have volumes of stories to swap, and it is interesting to see just how similar they are. What was it that you used to say, ‘Little leopards have spots because big leopards have spots’? How true it is.
“Sadly, in your very heart of hearts you must be the most miserable, lonely person alive. You are a self-proclaimed giant, sensationalist, exhibitionist, and ‘big-time spender’ grasping for every expression of love, admiration and loyalty that you can get your filthy little hands on. Yet, you have failed with the most precious gifts God could have ever given you – your wife, your children, and now, your ministry.
“I pity you, _____ ________, for you will be experiencing the consequences of your actions for a very long time. You may have convinced your following in the past twenty years that ‘it did not happen if they did not see it,’ but God has seen every moment of those years, and my faith will not let [me] believe that He will let you go unpunished.
“With these thoughts expressed, I bathe myself of you and any influence you may have had on me in the past. With God’s help, I will make my life in California everything that He would have it be and, unlike you, will not fall.
“Sincerely,”
(Signed)
Quite frankly, if I ever received a letter like that – and it contained even 10% truth – I’d walk out of the ministry without ever looking back. I could not handle even the private knowledge that such a letter were even remotely true.
This letter, which the writer told the recipient “it would be the pleasure of my life to have the entire world to see in print,” explaining that he exemplified “everything in this life that I do not want for myself, my marriage or my children,” was signed by Judy Nischik Johnson. It was written on October 1, 1986, to “Mr. Hyles.” He is better known as Dr. Jack Hyles, pastor of the huge First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana, and Chancellor of Hyles-Anderson College. The Paula in the letter is Dr. Hyles’ former daughter-in-law. And we should probably note that Mrs. Johnson hand-delivered the letter to his office to make certain he received it, rather than trusting the United States postal service. She was that serious about it.
Others knew about this long before we did, since its roots go back at least to 1971, but the philosophy and practice of Fundamentalism has been to sweep things like this under the rug, to bury it in the back recesses of Fundamentalism’s closet . . . then lock the door and throw away the key. But this, dear reader, is neither right nor biblical.*
Great posting! Thanks for doing the research and sharing that with us! I have read that before but renewing it confirms the reality of the pain these men have and continue to cause.
Thank you!
~~~Heart
I agree the IFB norm is to sweep it under the rug. We had children in our local IFB church that were being molested by a Sunday school teacher. The teacher was the son of one of the deacons. The Pastor was made aware of the situation but never did anything. Finally one of the kids talked to their parents, the police were brought in and the whole thing exploded. Several kids were being molested but it only made a few minor news stations. The victims were basically run off by the rest of the church. No consuling no sympathy, nothing. This is one of the many reasons were are no longer associated with the IFB church. It has grown twisted and corrupt in its own “religion”.
The ministry is greater than any mere pew dweller. The M-O-g is the ministry and the ministry is the M-O-g.
And Christ is given as the reason it is necessary to cover up the sin of/in the ministry. Their christ is so small and weak that they must protect him… for their christ can do nothing without them. So frail, so fragile, so inept, so unlike the Creator God of the universe.
To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. -Proverbs 21:3
For your hands are stained with blood,
your fingers with guilt.
Your lips have spoken falsely,
and your tongue mutters wicked things.
No one calls for justice;
no one pleads a case with integrity.
They rely on empty arguments, they utter lies;
they conceive trouble and give birth to evil. Isaiah 59:3-4
“How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.” -Psalm 82:2-4
Judgment must begin in the house of the Lord. For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?* -1 Peter 4:17
*even those who stand in the pulpits pretending to be ministers of the gospel while they coverup sin, and practice injustice.
I apologize for coming to this blog. For posting on this blog. And for even reading it. I became curious and then compromised myself. I have been bothered for a couple of days by the incredible filth so openly discussed in this place. And ashamed tat I participated.
There are two quick passages that convinced me. And both teach clearly that no one, from any side (including myself,) can read or post on this blog (or any like it) and possibly be right with God.
I apologize sincerely. I felt bad and said good bye. It’s only right to drop by one last time and apologize. Yu may ridicule me if you wish, but I suggest you not wast your time as I will never see it. So long.
For it is a shame to even to speak of those things which are done of th me in secret.
Ephesians 5:12
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Philippians 4:8
Edward, you’ve made a pathetic attempt to justify denial. You can’t face the reality of sin in your leaders. I wonder if you’ve faced the reality of sin in yourself.
Edward, I wholeheartedly agree, and feel the same way as you. I have never gone on any of these blog sites, but was curious as well. My original purpose was to correct the lies that were spoken by Linda Murphrey. Upon doing that I came to the conclusion that they don’t want to know the truth, they only want to spread the lies that they want to be true. It is a sin, and I too think it wrong to spread such wrongdoings, whether or not they be true. I tried over & over to convey this sentiment, but to no avail. There are a lot of angry Christians out there & my thoughts still go out to us banding together to fight against the Devil instead of against each other. Thanks again for your convicting words & scripture. You are a much stronger Christian than I am, or I would have gotten off here long ago. Sorry!
Sydney, that is where you are wrong. Linda is not spreading lies and you have not been able to prove she that she is lying. We are not spreading lies! We are spreading the truth. I pray for you that one day SOON God will open your eyes and that you will see how brainwashed you are. I implore you, I beg you to get out of the IFB cult that you are in and get into a Godly church! I just read about a child that was adopted by an IFB pastor and his wife as a small baby and they are in jail now for raping and horrifically abusing this child her whole life. I wish you could read the story and then just maybe your eyes will finally open!!! This abuse has been going on for years by mainly IFB pastors. May God have mercy on your soul.
Here is just one article of the brutal reality of joe and evangeline coombs. I refuse to capitalize their proper names! I took his class at HAC, Old Testament Survey and he was merciless to the guys in class that were falling asleep. He would humiliate them and make them stand up at the back of the class. These guys were working jobs, taking full loads of classes and working all weekend long in the bus ministry. He showed no compassion, no empathy and no Christ-like endearments!
This article reveals his true ugly nature and yet spares you the details that his deposition clearly states, if you dare to read the truth about the perversions of many men who have followed and found license in this deceitful cult!
People, stand firm against these predators! They can not continue to hurt people and abuse them! Don’t let people like Edward and Sydney talk you into being quiet! This is what they have been taught! So they hold strong and twist and manipulate the scriptures into ways that urge you to not gossip or talk of those things which are done on secret! Hog wash!
If there was a smoldering fire, we alert our loved ones! If a pedophile moves into town, they must register, if the bridge is out ahead, signs are posted, if we are dying and destined to an eternal hell, the Gospel is shared!
Where there is evil, we have a duty to fight against it! Don’t ever believe that we should stand back and do nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A non-Christian with standards that one may deem as mediocre would stand firm on this issue! In fact, I would venture to say that the coldest of criminals would object to behaviors such as these!
These behaviors are immoral and against human decency! So stop acting like you are supporting God’s way to live properly! No! You are wrong to not judge and wrong to not speak and wrong to stay in those churches because you enable more of the same behavior and condone it by your support both in attendance and tithes!
Read the article!!!! Put yourself in Esther’s role as the child who knew nothing but abuse growing up! And after all the abuse, try and think about how she lives her life today on a daily basis with not only mental scars but more physical scars than many of her doctors and examiners have ever set their eyes on one human, a child non-the-less!!!
Sydney, in particular, you have really pushed the limit here with your empty words and use of the holy scriptures. I must say it, though harsh it may seem, but I truly doubt that you have a genuine knowledge of the greatness of God and His love and discernment.
I too, along with most contributors to these discussions here, agree that you are so completely brainwashed that it is not within your grasp to see the truth at this point and once again I wish you well and hope that these many words that have been shared with you Sydney, will one day be an epiphany to you!
Stay strong people and stand up for that which is right and wholesome and if we must alert by the ringing of bells, hollering in the town square, and any form of alerts of dangers ahead then so be it because if we can save a child, a soul, then “… Well done my good and faithful servant!…”
God wants you earnest and faithful with discernment!!!!!!!!!!!
~~~Heart
Here is just one article of the brutal reality of joe and evangeline coombs. I refuse to capitalize their proper names! I took his class at HAC, Old Testament Survey and he was merciless to the guys in class that were falling asleep. He would humiliate them and make them stand up at the back of the class. These guys were working jobs, taking full loads of classes and working all weekend long in the bus ministry. He showed no compassion, no empathy and no Christ-like endearments!
This article reveals his true ugly nature and yet spares you the details that his deposition clearly states, if you dare to read the truth about the perversions of many men who have followed and found license in this deceitful cult!
People, stand firm against these predators! They can not continue to hurt people and abuse them! Don’t let people like Edward and Sydney talk you into being quiet! This is what they have been taught! So they hold strong and twist and manipulate the scriptures into ways that urge you to not gossip or talk of those things which are done on secret! Hog wash!
If there was a smoldering fire, we alert our loved ones! If a pedophile moves into town, they must register, if the bridge is out ahead, signs are posted, if we are dying and destined to an eternal hell, the Gospel is shared!
Where there is evil, we have a duty to fight against it! Don’t ever believe that we should stand back and do nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A non-Christian with standards that one may deem as mediocre would stand firm on this issue! In fact, I would venture to say that the coldest of criminals would object to behaviors such as these!
These behaviors are immoral and against human decency! So stop acting like you are supporting God’s way to live properly! No! You are wrong to not judge and wrong to not speak and wrong to stay in those churches because you enable more of the same behavior and condone it by your support both in attendance and tithes!
Read the article!!!! Put yourself in Esther’s role as the child who knew nothing but abuse growing up! And after all the abuse, try and think about how she lives her life today on a daily basis with not only mental scars but more physical scars than many of her doctors and examiners have ever set their eyes on one human, a child non-the-less!!!
Sydney, in particular, you have really pushed the limit here with your empty words and use of the holy scriptures. I must say it, though harsh it may seem, but I truly doubt that you have a genuine knowledge of the greatness of God and His love and discernment.
I too, along with most contributors to these discussions here, agree that you are so completely brainwashed that it is not within your grasp to see the truth at this point and once again I wish you well and hope that these many words that have been shared with you Sydney, will one day be an epiphany to you!
Stay strong people and stand up for that which is right and wholesome and if we must alert by the ringing of bells, hollering in the town square, and any form of alerts of dangers ahead then so be it because if we can save a child, a soul, then “… Well done my good and faithful servant!…”
God wants you earnest and faithful with discernment!!!!!!!!!!!
~~~Heart
What a joke! I never said to excuse or cover up sin. However, God has said it is HIS duty, not ours to judge sin. Heart, you seem to think it your job to punish those who have already been punished and are still being punished for their sins. Joe & Evangeline Combs are prime examples. They are serving numerous life sentences in prison for their sins, and yet you think that’s not enough punishment? I pity your children, providing you have any, if they ever dare to do anything against you. When will your punishment on them ever stop!!!!
This entire post is just a way of venting your hatred & anger against fundamentalists. You don’t care what God says in the Bible. You don’t care that the government is already doing their job to punish the wrong that has been done. All you care about is spreading the bad others may or may not have done.
We all will have to answer for our actions when we stand before God at the Judgement Seat of Christ, where God rewards Christians according to their works for Him; or hopefully not, the Great White Throne Judgement where God judges the unsaved and casts them into the lake of fire called hell. Beware though, God will not judge as harshly those who have already been judged by others! If you doubt me, just look it up in your Bible, providing you have one.
Heart, I had to laugh when I read an earlier post from “pastor’s wife” who went on about your gracious spirit. Obviously, she has not read the comments you directed at me or Edward. What a joke you are! I guess that’s one of the satirical comments!
Sydney,
Thank God for the justice system that is punishing joe and evangeline coombs on an on-going basis; a reminder of their heinous and horrific evil crimes/sins against the innocent child.
*
As far as your faux expression of pity for my children, well, your gesture only exposes your weakness in yielding to the temptation of attacking me by daring to involve my own innocent children whom I love and that are dear to me. Shame on you!
*
Accusing me of hatred, I remind you that I have often quoted, “…love the sinner but hate the sin…” However, I do have righteous indignation on the acts of preachers who are pedophiles, yes.
*
Your reference to God’s judgment, I do not refute, but your use in throwing the variations in my direction is of a carnal nature, in which you once again use the Bible to convey a haughty spirit.
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Implying that you have doubt that I own a Bible is also of the flesh and says much for your need to be vindictive and vengeful.
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Your opinion of Pastor’s Wife’s comment is rightfully your own but I give no value to your own “satire” nor to any more of your worthless interjections that are intermingled within inappropriate and arrogant uses of the Scriptures. Why?…
…Because, while I will always use my efforts, experiences and energies to help others understand God’s purpose and I will encourage fellow Christians to seek out God and His plan for their lives and my own, by using God’s Word, prayer, good Biblical taught doctrine and good fellowship, I will not continue to debate with you and be guilty of misuse of my valuable time. It is a moot point with you.
You have continued to digress from the issue that is on the table to being vindictive, resorting to name-calling, and projecting malicious assumptions that many label adolescent and unrelated to the topic at hand. Futile!
You have your IFB movement that purports to be a wholesome Godly arena, but I will never ever again, be part of that façade nor wish that on anyone else!
I do not wish you any blessing upon your endeavors because I do not want your cult to ever hurt another child of God, however…
I do wish you well-being though, because you are a child of God and need to be loved, guided and shown the light.
“In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”
If we were in each other’s presence, I would sit with you, spend time with you, embrace you and try to explain to you my endeavors in revealing the catalysts for these on-going abuses. They cannot continue but will, as it has been proven throughout these numerous years, unless we do something about it, which is speaking up and putting into actions proper guidelines in order to stop these horrible reoccurrences against the innocent!
I am not mad at you. I do not wish for discontent or anger. We are not to let the sun go down upon our wrath, that will just be another catalyst for dismay and discord both with fellow Christians and God.
We, and I assume that I do speak for a few here, would just whole-heartedly like for you to see what we see, but that must take place for you in due time, or possibly, it may never. You are who you are and as we each are accountable for ourselves, well, it is what it is.
I leave you with the “B Attitudes” in which you can find enlightenment, comfort, confidence, condolence, challenge and an array of promises as spoken from the mouth of Christ.
~~~Heart
Heart, I find it quite humorous that you think I am digressing from the topic of this blog: “Linda Hyles Murphrey,” when you yourself went on and on in explicit details on the case of Joe & Evangeline Combs. That in no way has anything whatsoever to do with Linda Murphrey’s speech. The meer recollection of the details of that situation turns my stomach! I knew the Combs’; I said I knew them, not that I liked them. I was thoroughly disgusted when I heard what they had done. I don’t care to relive that ever again! But for you to give any inkling of responsibility for that to the members of First Baptist Church or any church is ever so far removed from the truth. Never was anything like that ever taught, promoted, encouraged, or overlooked in any case, at any church I have ever attended. If you were to have opened your heart & mind you would know that, but you are so clouded with hatred that you dream up these imaginations that are so off the wall that it makes one take pause to wonder where you are living???
You accuse me of deviating from the original topic, well, perhaps you should get back on track as well. Go back to the beginning of this blog & read each and every comment posted by you and you will see just how far off the point you have gone.
If you are offended by the use of the Bible verses, then you will have to take that up with God. He wrote the Bible. If you choose not to believe it, that is not my problem, but yours.
Excuse the technical difficulties, please. Thank you!
~~~Heart
Heart, I read the court transcript of what joe and evangeline combs did to this precious child of God Esther and it literally made me sick to my stomach. I cried, I got angry and I was mortified. That sick IFB preacher made his adopted daughter do filthy things to him and then he wouldn’t let her wash her mouth out after he ejaculated in her mouth. This was many times he did this to this girl. I cannot possibly imagine how she was able to live through all that they did to her. evangeline beating her with a baseball bat and taking pliers and twisting her skin until it tore. How sick can they be. They don’t deserve jail, they should be put in a room and every single thing they did to that child should be done to then DAILY just like it was done to her DAILY! This child was beat daily and sometimes raped. And sydney and edward still wanting to be part of an IFB cult is beyond me. As far as I’m concerned I don’t EVER want to be a part of anything to do with an IFB pastor. They are some sick sick SICK people.
Robin,
Yes, it is one of the saddest stories that was brought to light and exposed and that which was done in secret was brought out for judgement, accountability, and due process! As far as the sentencing for these two IFB Monsters, well, as none of us would wish harm to anyone… We know that God, in His perfect judgement will reign down on joe and evangeline in a manner in which He will punish and purge this evil.
It’s beyond me to possibly imagine that people who do these evil deeds on an on-going basis could honestly have Christ in their hearts, but if they do, somehow, then all the more the judgement of their Father will chasten this bad seeds. The wrath of God is uncompromising.
If, and most likely, these monsters never really truly knew Christ, then we know, by God’s Supreme Justice that an eternal place of damnation far from goodness, a place where evil resides, devours, consumes, and is relentlessly eternal will indeed be their sentences.
A very sad observation is that these two monsters were the only parents that Esther knew and after all those years and in videos on a couple accounts, after sentencing, this child still addressed joe and evangeline and asked them to please explain as to why they didn’t love her, that she just wanted them to love her!
My heart goes out to Esther and as she progresses in her new life, I continue to hope and pray that she will learn to recondition all that old conditioning and free herself from all the oppression! Just think, we, previous Fundamentalists under that regime, battle now to shrug those preached philosophies and ways in which to stringently live for the church, but how much more the task that is set before Esther having been abused in all aspects, physically, mentally, spiritually, and humanly! Remember her in your prayers!
Look to a person near you! They have been awesomely and wonderfully made! Love them, guide them, encourage them, tell them you love them and they are special but if that individual becomes toxic and gives place to evil then you cannot be silent on those accounts either! This is where a true Christ-like spirit will prevail and do the right thing!
Robin, you have a tender heart and you view things clearly! I’d hire you in an instant! Keep thriving to stay on track and like someone said…. “Follow the right path, but when that path is unclear, use your proper discretion to create a path and in turn, you will help others stay on course!”
Like Stephen pointed out…”and have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them!”…Eph. 5:11……
KUDOS Robin!
~~~Heart
Heart, Thank you! You are so sweet! I just cannot possibly comprehend why Edward and Sydney don’t see these people for what they are. It hurts my heart to know that someone can be brainwashed so easily. I see it in the church I went too and left because an IFB pastor took over. I just have a hard time understanding why??!! But I am SO thanful to God that He allowed me to see and get out of there! 🙂
Robin,
I’m so glad that you are out of there too Hun! If you take notice, in Linda Murphrey’s video, she takes time to address that very issue and that how she could not understand how her siblings never came to the point of questioning and using their own thought processes in order to come to the same inquiries that she did.
Along my life’s path, I had often wondered the same thing and often came to the conclusion that some people would rather follow. It is evident in research. It is evident in the numerous cults throughout history!
So we must hope against hope. We could sit back and just let others falter to their own demise, but such is not the way of a Christian now, it is, no. Nor is it the way of human decency!
So, girl, as you try to live in happiness according to God’s guidelines, do your best to be the beckon when darkness falls and there are people searching for the light! Help guide them to the Truth. The Lord will bless you as you, in turn, will find blessings in having a spirit that is filled with concern, righteousness, and an awareness of the evils that lurk, even amongst us in sheep’s clothing!
Romans chapters 12 & 13!
Celebrate the goodness in your life Robin! In fact, let’s rejoice in this day and be ever grateful for His goodness!
Someone stopped by today and brought me some avocados! I love avocados! What a treat! I’m smiling and I’m sharing… want some! lol
Hugs OOO
~~~Heart
Sydney, Sydney, Sydney!!! You are wasting so much precious time on here when you could be worshipping your cult man. Now go away because you are losing this battle. We certainly cannot open your eyes, only God can and at this point you are constantly making a fool of yourself by constantly accusing us of having hatred and anger and bitterness when we have told you OVER and OVER that we do not hate not are we bitter and you are either so ignorant that you don’t comprehend what we say or you don’t care. If you are the Christian YOU say you are then stop the name calling and act like one because if this is the way a Christian acts then I’m not sure I want to be one. Now stop wasting time and go worship your cult man before he finds out what your doing on here
Robin, Robin, Robin, if you feel I’m wasting time, then why do you keep reading & replying??? I guess that’s just more of the satire I’m told is supposed to be on this site.
You say I’m not winning this “battle” as you call it, but if I’m losing, then why do you want me to go away??? Funny, that anyone who disputes your ideals is just told to “go away.” Just because there are more of you on this site that have gripes about FBC doesn’t mean you are right. I have said over & over, again & again that I am not supporting anyone doing wrong, whether it be Jack Schaap, Jack Hyles or Linda Murphrey! What part of that do you not understand? I guess it means your eyes are closed when you read these comments.
You say that you are not bitter and do not hate, but that’s exactly the way you treat those like me who have anything to say that doesn’t go right along the lines with the brainwashing you are pushing. You seem to think that only you have anything to say that should be heard. You say I should open my eyes to what you have to say, well, isn’t that an oxymoron? You don’t open your eyes to what I have said that refutes the lies that Linda Murphrey told in her speech and all you want me to do is “go away!” That’s just like all you people. If you can’t get someone to agree with you, you just want them to shut up! Truth isn’t like that. Truth will always win out, whether you want to accept the truth or not.
By the way, Robin, I will go worship the Man (God) known as Jesus Christ. I don’t worship any human man or woman.
Ummm Sydney the cultwoman…My eyes are opened!Unlike you, God opened my eyes the minute my church brought in a IFB preacher so really all I can get out of what your saying is blah blah blah blah blah…we laugh at you and we pity you 🙄
Robin, you are so far off the mark it’s not even funny (satirical or otherwise). FYI, I don’t even attend a fundamental baptist church. Not that that’s any of your business, but you say you want me to stop the name-calling, and as soon as you are backed to the wall, you resort to calling me names. Whatever!!!!!
It’s such a shame that anyone who stands up for a church, of any denomination, that has had such a tragedy, is treated in such a way. Your people say you are standing up for those who can’t help themselves, but all you want is to destroy FBC & its members. Some of those members have been in that church since before Bro. Hyles came in 1959. They didn’t have anything to do with the sins that have been committed by certain leaders in that church, yet you don’t want to stand up for them. You are trying to destroy their church for the sins of the few.
If you don’t want to attend a church with the strict standards that a fundamental church tries to uphold (none of which is a requirement for membership or salvation), that is fine. But, for you to hold yourself up as the hammer of destruction against the good, godly people who attend those churches just goes to show how much hatred you have in your heart!
You have the right to believe whatever you want. That’s why God gave us each a free will. You do not have the right to treat people who don’t agree with you as though they are Satan’s spawn! You and you alone will be answering to God Almighty for the hateful & bitter things you are saying and feeling against those people.
If you don’t want to be a Christian, that’s also your right. God never forces salvation on anyone.
God will live forever. Jesus Christ will live forever. The Bible will live forever. There is nothing you or anyone can do to change that.
If you choose not to believe in God, or the Bible, no one can make you. It’s a simple act of faith, and if you don’t have that faith, you will have to live (or die) with the consequences.
However, don’t pretend like you care so much for those who have been hurt by the few. Your sole purpose is to try and persuade people to leave their church because you don’t like it. You have the right to attend any church of your choosing–or not attend any church at all. That is your right. It is also the right of each and every one of the people who attends a fundamental baptist church, to attend that church, whether or not you like it or agree with it.
Sydney wrote, “…but all you want is to destroy FBC & its members. Some of those members have been in that church since before Bro. Hyles came in 1959. They didn’t have anything to do with the sins that have been committed by certain leaders in that church…”
Those long term members deserve all the grief they get…every last bit of it.
They did NOTHING when Schaap spewed horrible heresies from the pulpit – even likening taking communion with having sexual intercourse with God!!
They did NOTHING when Schaap masturbated an arrow infront of thousands of youth!
They did NOTHING when it became commonplace for their leadership to yell at staff and drop F-bombs and use other vile language.
They did NOTHING when Hyles limited the number of blacks that were allowed on their buses.
These long term members turned a blind eye to all manner of wickedness because they chose to see FBCH as some Fundy Utopia, and their precious pastors as demigods.
They need repentance more than sympathy.
Used-to-be-Fundy!! Sydney probably has that video of Schaap downloaded and watches it over and over because she loves watching him masterbate that arrow. She must also like the fact that when she does the Lords Supper that she is having sex with Jesus. They are some sick followers as well and too stupid to see it. So we should quit trying to get them out of that church because they like what they are hearing or they wouldn’t stay and hear the sicko’s up there preaching. I love how she defends the congregation and then says she doesn’t go to an IFB church…well they do lie so I know she certainly is doing that, they are good at that. All she can say is we hate. I have told her over and over I don’t hate anyone. She needs to come up with something better than that. All they can think of is call us BITTER and HATERS etc. It’s what they are taught to say, they know nothing else to say. All I see is blah blah blah when she gets on here babbling. 🙄
Robin, is that all you’ve got???
No, you don’t “hate.” Maybe you should go back & read the comment you just posted. There is nothing but a tone of hate throughout it.
I don’t have to defend myself to you. You even admit that you may not even be a Christian, so why do you think you should have any justification of my life???
What a joke!
I also am not a Catholic, but I would defend another Catholic’s right to attend whatever church they choose. That’s more than you “anti-fundamentalists” are doing. You don’t want to defend anything except your own shallow point of view. Go right ahead, but you are the ones who are brainwashed (by the Devil) and closed minded to the truth. By the way, did you know that this country was founded on freedom of religion???
I have no idea what you are talking about “that video of Schaap downloaded and watches it over and over because she loves watching him masterbate that arrow. She must also like the fact that when she does the Lords Supper that she is having sex with Jesus.”
I haven’t attended that church since less than a year after Jack Schaap became pastor. He never said anything like that when I was there. If he did say those things, I never heard any of it. So funny that you claim not to be a fundamentalist, and yet, you know more of the sermons he has preached than actual fundamentalists!
But, no, you’re not spreading HATE!!!!! You just go around loving everyone…LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE….
And there you go again with the namecalling. What a joke you are!
If you watch the entire sermon where jack simulates an organism with an arrow, a few minutes later, he breaks a couple of those arrows and tosses them behind him. Those arrows represent a “polished” Christian (himself included, of course) and he says that this is what God may do to some some “polished” Christian.
OH, THE IRONY. God literally used this sermon to expose him as the hypocrite that he is (as pope Hyles was)
Daniel Duma and others here that are reading…
If you take notice in the video that Daniel is referring to, found very easily on YouTube, the director of the cameraman who is orchestrating the vantage point of jack schaap’s sermon cannot keep the center viewing straight forward camera cued on jack schaap, even though it is attempted, but rather, re-directs the side viewing camera to transmit.
Personally, I believe that this was done because the gestures of jack schaap, from the straight view just too shockingly paralleled gestures of self-gratification. You be the judge.
Who would ever think that we would even be discussing such comparisons of these things about a preacher standing behind a pulpit. What a shame!
This needs to STOP!
~~~Heart
Sydney, Oh no, I have more, your just not worth my time anymore. You are such a HUGE Hypocrite! Your post is so full of anger. I got your feathers all ruffled huh?? Lol…I never once hinted nor said I was not a Christian! I love how you ASSume something. I am saved by the blodd of the Lamb. Are you??? Ummm I highly doubt it! You are nothing but full of lies and a hypoctite and I could care less what you think of me because I don’t have to answer to you, I answer only to God! You answer to Man who thinks he is God! Your brainwashed and people like you deserve whats coming to you because you won’t listen! I don’t believe for one minute that you never went while Schaap was there and I bet you still go there or you wouldn’t be on here spewing untruths and hatred to those of us who refuse to worhip these IFB pastors and allow them to brainwash us. May God have Mercy on your soul!
Robin, If you didn’t care what I thought of you, you would stop trying so hard to convince me that you know what you’re talking about. You say you’re a Christian, but then you think you can know if another person is one too. No one can know another’s heart. Your actions do speak volumes though about the level of your Christianity.
You call me names, and assume I am lying, when you have no idea that I live over a thousand miles away from Hammond. Like so many times, you didn’t even read that I was there less than a year after Jack Schaap became pastor. Once again, I don’t have to qualify myself to you, but for you to blatantly criticize someone is not only careless on your part, but shows your hatred all the more!
Just keep on calling names, spreading the hatred & bitterness–but no, you don’t hate…you just love everyone! Sure!
Good grief Sydney!!! Go and read the name calling your doing…oops I forgot, your an IFB so it’s ok for you to do that. Your the one who came to this site to start trouble with all of us and call us liars and haters because we don’t agree with you. If you notice I am not the only one who is tired of your pathetic rants. Now when you find you have finally lost you can move onto the next site and try to unsuccessfully bother someone else. Linda Murphrey IS telling the truth and these IFB pastors are sickos and the IFB followers like you ARE brainwashed whether you like it or believe it or not and YOU my dear will NOT change our minds. You are a fly on this wall 🙄
Robin — Actually, I came on this site simply to comment on the false statements made by Linda Murphrey in her speech. I had no intention of making trouble with anyone. I mistakenly thought those on this site actually cared about the truth, but soon found that they are just interested in using the lies and dirt to further their hatred against a group of people who don’t even know they exist!
You are making quite a spectacle of yourself in trying so hard to get me to stop commenting. I guess that just goes to show that you only want to boost your own ego by having everyone agree with you and your wickedness. Yes, I said wickedness, for that is all it is when you spend so much time trying to tear down other Christians. If you sincerely cared about helping people, you would be more interested in stopping the gossip than spreading it!
My mother warned me not to hang around people like you. You will find fault in anything you don’t agree with instead of finding the good in people. For that you will be held accountable to God Himself.
Funny, just how many people, who are so hard hearted against a church that has done so much to help people, keep throwing the “brainwashing” word around. That coin has two sides. You are just as brainwashed, or more so, in your beliefs. The difference is that fundamentalists don’t go around digging up every speck of dirt they can find to spread about your kind of people just to tear down any good you might be doing for God. So, when it comes to brainwashing, it’s rather obvious that fundamentalists don’t hold the patent!
Sin will be punished, but it’s up to God to do the punishing. Spreading the dirt around does no good to anyone.
This isn’t about gossip, this is about exposing the IFB church for what it is. A cult that has a propensity to allow abuse within itself and get away with it due to the brainwashing of it’s members.
You might not think it should be about gossip, but that’s what this site has turned to.
Sydney, we are NOT gossipping! Gossippin is spreading false lies!!! We aren’t lying, we are telling the truth! If we weren’t telling the truth then these sicko’s would not be in jail or about to be in jail!!! 🙄
Robin, look it up. Gossip is not just spreading lies. It’s the spreading of truth or rumors.
Sydney, blah blah blah blah blah 🙄
Robin, you have to be one of the most obnoxiously rude people on this site.
But, I have to say, this is the most intelligent things you have said on any of your posts!
Sydney, (cultwoman) You have got to be the biggest hypocrite on this site because you say we are the only ones name calling. This is the most unintelligent thing you have said on any of YOUR posts 🙄
Sydney, Oh WAIT!!! I forgot! EVERYTHING you say on here is unintelligent or just plain ignorant! My bad!
My dad is tougher than your dad 😀
Daniel Duma, And don’t forget how Schaap says that when your taking the Lords supper that you are having Spiritual intercourse with Jesus! Now how sick is that???!!! And yet theses brainwashed followers sit and listen to his preaching. I cannot believe that people get on here and argue with us about Linda Murphrey telling the truth and exposing these people and yet they sit and listen to these IFB pastors sick preaching and lies! SMH 🙄
Sydney, (1) Prove Linda is lying! You say she is, then prove it. (2) I am hardhearted against a church that has helped so many people??…oh you mean helped to show people how to have a polished shaft? How to have spiritual intercourse with Jesus when I take the Lords supper? How to be a pediphile and rape young people? Oh and how to learn to commit adultry? I guess your right they do learn how to help people, only they help people to become evil is all they have helped them do. Sorry I should be more understanding to the sick IFB’s. Please forgive me for NOT understanding how they HELP people to learn how to be sick pedophiles. (insert sarcasm here) The difference between you and I is that I have my eyes on God and you people have your eyes on man. I do go to church!! A wonderful SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCH with a Godly loving pastor and Godly loving people. And I’m not trying to keep you from commenting at all…please continue to comment and further make a jackass out of yourself, it doesn’t bother me. I laugh everytime I see you post. In fact I can’t wait to see the next one so I can have another good laugh. When I have 5 pastors tell me to get out of my church when an IFB pastor took over, then I know I better get out! These are Godly pastors that are not pedophiles!!! These IfB pastors are all over the internet and all over the news…If I were you, again I would be too embarassed to admit I was an IFB follower. I haven’t seen anything about my pastor or previous pastors on the news or all over facebook. It’s EVERYWHERE! EVERYONE CAN’T BE WRONG!! They aren’t going to jail for nothing!! 🙄
Robin – My brother has attended a good Southern Baptist Church for many years, but he has a much cleaner mouth than you do. The language you use shows everyone your spiritual condition. You can say you have your eyes on God, but your heart is on man. After all, the Bible says, “From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh.” Luke 6:45
Before being so critical of me, take a good long look at yourself. My eyes are not, nor have they ever been on a man. I trust only in God. Just because I am standing up for the innocents does not mean I support the guilty. For some reason, that just really bothers you.
I am not supportive of the wickedness you so freely point out. But, I do not throw out the baby with the bath water, either! No doubt, there are many people, who have attended FBCH & other IFBCs and have gone astray. I, myself, know of several who have either been in, or are still in prison. But, since divorce, incest, pedophilia, abuse, and perversion of all types is not limited to fundamental baptist churches, perhaps you should turn your eyes off man and onto God for help. You say you look only to God, but your comments say otherwise.
Life is full of both good and bad. I have never been one to search out the bad. If I hear of bad things done, by anyone, I don’t go about spreading the news to everyone within earshod! You seem to think that if a person stands up for right, they are supporting the wrong that has been done. That is just another way of spreading the bad.
Get over yourself. If you don’t like IFB, then don’t attend their churches, but by you saying that all IFBCs or all members of IFBCs are just as guilty as those who have sinned shows your hatred, once again, and the ungodly and unspiritual condition of your heart!
I don’t stand up in support of the sins, but I do stand up for the good, godly people who attend churches (of any denomination) to fellowship with other good, godly Christians.
If you like your church so much, then why spend so much time in research to find all the dirt you can against IFB & criticizing other churches for anything any member or leader has ever done wrong? You would be better off spending that time serving God by supporting your own church. Oh, I forgot that church is also led by a man.
Sydney, Jackass is not bad language…Oops forgot again…it is when it involves an IFB! You are a hypocrite and keep degrading me but I am supposed to keep quiet and bow to you and believe your lies and you spew hate at me because I do not believe you. YOU say YOU look to God but sweetheart YOUR comments say otherwise. You try to make everyone think your Godly but then your hatred to those who do not agree with YOU speak otherwise. You will not change my mind so stop trying. God knows my heart yet you keep rambling like you know it. You think you know so much about the bible and yet you know nothing. Google is great isn’t it?! I could give you a few verses but your clouded mind would not see it. AGAIN and one more time! You will not change our minds!!!! You are the only one left here that just keeps coming back for more and making a jackass out of yourself continueously! You say my heart is UnGodly??? Wow I didn’t know IFB’s know our hearts too….You make me laugh and make me sick at the same time with your ramblings. 🙄
Robin — WOW I must have really struck a nerve! You are so funny! You think you are so strong in sticking up for the mistreated, but you just get mad & defensive when anyone dare to call it like it is!
Sydney, why on earth would YOU think you struck a nerve? I told you I laugh everytime you post your ramblings….what part of that do you not understand cultwoman??? I mean seriously are you that ignorant that you think I’m mad?? lol..you make me laugh so hard. I have no reason to be mad. You have all these people against you and yet you come back here for more. It’s so hilarious!!!
I guess you failed in your purpose then.
While Jesus Christ was living on earth, there was no “peace on earth” and He “never faileth.” I am only human and some people have such hard hearts that they cannot be changed.
Judges 17:6 “…every man did that which was right in his own eyes.”
Proverbs 14:12 “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”
And, I didn’t know this was a contest. I guess it just proves the fact that you really don’t want to know the truth, you just want to spread your heresy.
The only ones losing in all this are those being turned away from Jesus Christ through all the bickering amongst Christians, or so-called Christians that is.
It is a poor god indeed whose will is thwarted by the actions of mere mortals.
The only ones losing in all this are those being turned away from Jesus Christ through all the bickering amongst Christians, or so-called Christians that is.
-love the passive aggressive or so-called Christians that is. Cute…
Here on SFL we have been warning with a strong cry, take your eyes off of men who have led thousands captive with their man made traditions, their empire building, their false man-centered teaching. We have warned with a strong cry “Flee the Cult of the IFB!”
Sidney, your idol: Jack Hyles…is fallen.
And the only ones losing in this debate are the cult leaders, their false religion, their dictatorial empires and their bank accounts. They don’t like it when one of their own is exposed for who and what he really is. Worshippers of False gods are funny about things like that as well. Everyone else is wrong, everyone else is a liar, everyone else is going to hell…
Friends, Baptists, countrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Caesar Jack Hyles, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Caesar Jack Hyles. The noble Daughter Linda Hath told you Caesar Jack was an ambitious pulpiteer and cult leader:
It were so, and it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Caesar Jack answer’d it.
Sydney, You say: The only ones losing in all this are those being turned away from Jesus Christ through all the bickering amongst Christians, or so-called Christians that is.
WOW! You sure are doing alot of arguing on here so I guess that makes you a So-called Christian 😉
That’s a fascinating interpretation of Scripture, Edward. Shall we get out the scissors and go to work on your KJB, removing the rape of Dinah, the irresponsibility of Onan, the incest of Amnon and Tamar, and of course the adultery of Bathsheba? Because, of course, those things were done in secret, and it would be a shame to speak of them! 🙄
Oh, and did I mention Judah consorting with a prostitute that turned out to be his daughter-in-law?? 😯
ummm……excuse me “the adultery of Bathsheba”????>
Excuse me, David and Bathsheba. . . 😳
Could have sworn that I typed both names last night. Hmmm. . . 😕
Stephen,
Spot-on powerful! KUDOS!
~~~Marlene
What’s actually more interesting is the context surrounding Edward’s citing of Ephesians 5:12.
Here’s Eph. 5:11: “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.”
Hmmm, okay, so we’re supposed to repove them. . .
Then there’s 5:12: “For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.”
And then 5:13,”But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.”
So clearly, it is NOT a shame to reprove those things which are done in secret, like Edward would have had us believe. 🙄 Further proof that a text without a context is a pretext. . .
Forgive the errors created by typing on the iPad. Sorry! Later
Your inability to rightly interpret Scripture comes from typing on an iPad? Now THAT is a new one!
Edward, you’re just embarrassed because you were shown to be a cult follower and you can’t stand it. Jack Hyles led a cult. You follow still. If you saw him on top or another woman, you still would not believe he was an adulterer. Good bye and good riddance.
Edward and Syndey need God! And the sad thing is I actually feel sorry for them both because they allowed themselves to be brainwashed. At my church that was taken over by an IFB the old ladies there acted like they were having an orgasm when the pastor walked in and said hi to them. It was hilarious watching them when he came in the door. I know that sounds kinda bad but it is what it is 😆 People still laugh at them and I’m told they still worship this person. Sadly enough ICHABOD (sp) has been written on the front doors of that church now.
It pretty bold to make a statement that “Edward and Syndey need God!”. We all need God. I am no fan of the IFB church. My family left the IFB church about two years ago and am so thankful I did. To say that someone needs God is a very bold statement that reflects the same judgmental spirit that we escaped from when we left the circus called the IFB church. 🙂 I’m sure God has a plan for Edward and Syndey and they will be used according to his will. I was a diehard IFB man for a lot of years before my eyes were opened. I have seen God work in so many peoples lives outside the IFB church and it has been a real blessing. Let hope and pray that the same can happen for Edward, Syndey and all IFB folks.
thartofglas, if you go back and read some of the BOLD things they were saying to me, you will see the reason I said what I did. I was being sarcastic. Sydney mentioned to me “that is if you go to church” or something of that nature. But I did mean it in a way because they cannot possibly have God if they are being led and brainwashed by man. God cannot lead them until they start following God 🙂
Incredible ad by the Catholic Church
When churches start running ads…. this election is going to get hot.
You would think, huh? Actually, no. I do most of my work at night because it’s cooler. I get more done and I jump online from time to time. Online work holds no timeclocks! That’s the best part about it. Kids are grown, so no more carpools! Most businesses don’t open til 9 or later, so I don’t have to get up at 6 any more. Oh, the joys of middle age!
Middle age means grown up kids? Crud, I must have done it wrong. Mine are all between 6 and 9,lol.
No, my middle age actually is “age.” It just happens that my kids are grown as well. Life sure changes when your kids become adults. Good luck with your 6 & 9 year olds. Those are wonderful ages. We had a lot of fun when my kids were going through those years.
One of the greatest days in my life was when my kids outgrew Little Tykes. Loved the toys, but they were so big & took up a lot of space. They sure did have fun with them though.
Any of you guys hear of an IFP preacher named Todd Phillips? Total nutjob in the Sioux Falls, SD area. Very similar style as the Westboro idiots.
BTW, if this video ever disappears from the site, you can email me, I saved a copy of it. So, sue me.
Bob,
Did anyone ever mention the reason as to why it was taken down after having been up for a good spell?
Just wondering! And sue you… never 😉
~~~Heart
It was taken down to be edited. They took out the woman who introduced Linda and added the new intro.
Ex-Fundy Youth Pastor,
Thanks for that tidbit. The edit was needed, the intro was lengthy and poorly articulated. I’m glad she has it back up and even though she really wishes to not re-live those issues, I do wish that she would give another speech concerning her process of overcoming the 28 years of the fundamental mindset and how she battled to learn to live a much happier life in His grace, blessed in and with His true goodness and understanding of living!
Are you aware of any other speeches from her or even others like her?
Just wondering 😉
Since jack schaap has fallen into this God-forsaken path that many have also succumbed to, and he has thusly, opened old wounds and brought forth to the forefronts of our awareness, the real and dark side of human nature, especially those in unquestionable authority and power, well, I have come across a “Keeper of Truth”, if you will!
“The Rollcall of Shame” is a growing list of so-called preachers who pledge loyalties to jack hyles and his way and interpretations. These men have been proven and found guilty of “sins” against children; abuses that have been sexual, inhumane, immoral and wickedly evil! These men’s cases’ timelines range back from when jack hyles was at the helm up through today with jack schaap. They also range from the nucleus, First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana on throughout the United States!
Jeri’s website gives dates, circumstances, personal self-accounts of children, some now grown, who had to endure this dispicable tyranny! It also, not only quotes the twisted words of jack hyles and many of his “preacher boys”, but it also lends your ear to the recording of their typical orations as delivered before their gathering of misguided and “blind faith” followers!
If you dare to test your belief system, just as you dare to check under the hood of your car for levels of oil, unfrayed belts, rust-free connections, charged batteries, charging spark plugs and the like, not to doubt your excellent vehicle, but to assure yourself that the very lives that you entrust this vehicle with are in deed going to be safe, well, how much the more must you take the steps to be sure that the very SYSTEM/CHURCH/PREACHER that encases the Gospel and represents God’s ultimate sacrifice, IS a system that is SAFE!!!!!!!???
We question not salvation and Christianity as a whole… But to be clear… The questions here, with Red Flags which are scattered, appropriately and despairingly so, are “Who do you allow to interpret God’s Holy Word from the pulpit that you place yourself before so willingly? Who guides, not only your spirituality but also your daily living? Who are these authoritative figures that have risen to a state of unquestionable authority with an arrogance often only backed by “honorary degrees”? Who are these men that have preached God’s unwavering truths, coupled with condemnation creating fear to obedience in the congregations, only to give way for themselves to manipulate their control for their own self- gratifications from monetary misuse on through to their own sexual misconduct, not only with peers, but more atrociously with innocent children!!!???
No… Don’t be guilty of giving your CAR more mindful thought and concern than the very SYSTEM/CHURCH/PREACHER put into place, by you, as a voting member, that is representative of GOD!!!!!
I implore you to not walk in faith through ignorance of the facts that are evident in this day and age where evil hides in order to deceive you and create havoc not only in the world but more importantly, in our own churches, by those individuals who claim to be Godly Christians! But walk in faith and His guidance, trusting in Him and His greatness but also remembering your title as His steward!
The path of least resistance is often the mundane, unrewarding and possibly erroneous!
Re-think!
Re-callibrate!
Re-align!
Re-focus! ………And ultimately…
Re-assure yourself and the choices that you are making as a Child of God and responsibly for the children!
~~~Heart
Sydney I would love to bring down the IFB church and all their cultlike judgmental ways. I was one of them, I was even a trustee when I resigned. There were getting to be too many issues with the IFB church that were either no able to be justified by scripture or just plain unscriptural period. Not just in my church but every single IFB church that I visited. Overall the children of it’s members were becoming screwed up, there were/are countless sexual crimes and coverups, infighting, disagreements and an overall country club mentality within the ranks of it’s members. This is a cult Sydney whether you want to believe it or not. Just try to disagree with them on something and see what happens. Oops I forgot, women don’t have a voice in the IFB church. Maybe it’s time they did. Perhaps this would eliminate some of the child abuse, molestation and rape that is occuring so commonly in the IFB church nowdays by the self proclaimed “men of God”!
If I were and IFB follower, the last place I would be is on here trying to convince people that being an IFB is good! How can it be good with all the arrests that have been made from these sick people raping and beating kids. They are nothing but pedophiles. I would be to embarassed to even get on here and speak knowing what kind of people they are. Talk about stupidity! That just proves how brainwashed they are to get on here and make a complete fool out of themselves by trying to argue with anyone about these sick pastors!! I’m to the point that I don’t even feel sorry for these kool-aid drinkers anymore 🙄
“Crucify Him! Crucify Him! Release Barabbas!”
Sydney, if I understand correctly you are a member of an IFB church and you are defending the IFB church’s doctrine is that correct? I have nothing against the doctrine of the IFB church, as a matter of fact I think it is pretty much in line with my core beliefs. Where I run into the problem is the with the liberty that these churches take to interpret some of the gray areas of scripture and use it to judge others and promote a certain type of control over peoples lives. This really opens people up to some potential false understanding of scripture based on the opinions and interpretations of a man that may or may not be truly guided by the Holy Spirit. One of the things that I never heard enough of when I was a fundie was that we are living under grace. There is more to life than sitting in a pew every time the doors are open and having some sinner tell you that you aren’t good enough and you really need to be doing more for Christ. The Lord only has one box on his checklist to enter his kingdom. Covered by the blood or not covered by the blood. I offer these views up for debate and welcome and friendly debate.
thartofglass — I appreciate the courteous way you posed this posting. No, I am not currently a member of any IFBC, but attend a Baptist church that preaches and teaches directly from the Bible. I was a member of FBCH for 25+ years until my husband got transferred and we were forced to move.
I agree totally that some people at FBCH, as well as other churches I have attended, interpret the Bible in ways that makes one take pause at which book they were actually reading.
My entire reason for commenting on this site was to correct some of the statements Linda Hyles Murphrey made in her speech that simply were not true. Several posters took such offence that they began attacking me. This site has gotten downright vicious.
No one really cares what the doctrine of FBCH is. They are more interested in digging up the dirt on anyone, even remotely associated with FBC or any of its ministries, that has sinned, and spreading, in detail, those sins. So many posters want to take the punishment of those sinners upon themselves, and I beleive we should leave it up to God. Also, I don’t agree that the entire congregation should be held accountable for one man’s sin. Any parent who has ever had a wayward child would agree that it isn’t necessarily the parents’ fault.
My experience at FBCH is one of mixed results. First, I learned more about how to live for God than at any other church I have ever attended. I attended church since I was in grade school, and was taught moral values since I was born (before there ever was a fundamental church). In every church I attended, I heard statements such as, “live for God,” “obey God,” “avoid sin,” etc. My problem was that no one actually told me HOW to live for God, obey God or avoid sin. It was at FBCH that I learned how to have a personal relationship with God, and how to learn how to live for God. I realize that these are just men, and as such make mistakes (I’m speaking of mistakes, not sins). I make it a daily practice for me to read my Bible & pray to God for wisdom & understanding. In doing such, that enables me to distinguish whether what is being preached and taught follows the Bible.
When Bro. Hyles was alive, he would use not only the Bible, but also songs from our hymnal, poems, and life experiences in his sermons. Many things said from the pulpit were using these tools to convey a message. He was a very good public speaker. I learned a lot under his preaching.
I also had teachers in college (HAC) from which I learned a lot, as well as some from which I learned little to nothing–that I can remember. I guess that goes with my immaturity at that time, plus the teacher’s ability, or inability, to teach.
One time, when I was in college, a college student/part-time staff man was asked to fill in as chapel speaker. When he spoke, I couldn’t understand “what in the world he was saying.” There were people crying & others spellbound. I thought maybe I was just tired, or out of it. Then, he made the statement, “It’s been 3 days since I’ve sinned.” That statement hit me like a bolt of lightning. I thought, “What????” I knew that was wrong. Well, needless to say, as of that day, he was no longer a part-time staff member or student (because he quit college & was fired). He was preaching “sinless perfection.” I believe God closed my ears to hearing whatever else he was saying, but opened them at the point I needed to hear. So, you can see, I don’t always believe something just because it is preached.
As for the devotion shown to many of the staff men there, I have a deep respect for some of them, little respect for others, and yet no respect for a few. I know that no institution will ever have all great workers, and FBCH and its ministries is no exception. I also want to point out that as soon as someone is found to be preaching or teaching, anything contrary to the Bible, or living in a sinful, unscriptural manner they are no longer allowed to stay on staff. (prime example: Jack Schaap).
I have a slightly different view of the preaching at FBCH (providing that is the IFB church you were referencing). I felt that “grace” was taught in abundance. Bro. Hyles taught for weeks on Wednesday nights about our sins being covered by God’s grace & God’s grace keeping us out of hell, and helping us get through the tough times in life, for just a few. I do, however, think that a lot of preachers/teachers stress living with high standards more than strong convictions. That didn’t bother me, but I knew the difference between convictions (something you would die for) and standards (a way you choose to live your life). Most people don’t like the standards taught & that’s what they oppose in fundamental churches.
It breaks my heart that the reputation of Christianity, in general, has been so damaged by the sins committed by certain leaders in various churches. That includes Baptist, Nazarene, Methodist, etc. churches. Any church that teaches and preaches salvation by faith, through grace, should hold to a higher standard, and when they don’t, they harm the cause of Christ. This even includes Catholic churches that teach salvation by works. They still represent Christianity.
Don’t get me wrong, Jesus Christ will live on forever, but the sins committed by Christians creates stumblingblocks which prevent some from getting saved.
I’m not sure if I’ve responded as you expected, but I have been as honest as I possibly could.
Once again, thank you for being so respectful in your posting.
Robin, I have come to that place too. My best friend, for years and years, was a kool-aide drinker, and I patiently stood by him when his wife finally left him and he became estranged from his children. I tried to reason with him, yet he held to the very rules and legalistic convictions that lost him his family. It wasn’t so much the rules, etc, but the mind-set that came from Hyles, etal. “I am always right, and don’t you women dare question me.” My heart broke as he descended further into the koolaide drinking morass. I finally stopped trying with him. Now I don’t feel sorry for them any more.
Bob, I’m so sorry about your friend. I too have a friend of over 30 years that when this IFB pastor took over our church this past year, she absolutely thinks he is wonderful! I have tried to tell her what they are but she wouldn’t listen. I can’t believe that she would believe someone she just met over her best friend and she knows that I check things out thoroughly and yet she is so far gone being brainwashed that she will not listen to me. We hardly speak and haven’t spoken at all in several months. I heard that he has her watching my Facebook to let him know if I say anything and it has also gotten back to me that she speaks badly of me and my family and I have not done a single thing to her to cause her to speak badly of me. Like you I have given up and once she sees the truth, that is if she ever does see the truth I will not be there for her because she has done to much damage to ever repair our relationship. I told my husband the other day that I am done with her and want nothing to do with her regardless now.
Robin,
I hope you’re doing great over there! You’ve been a trouper! I’m glad to have you standing up for that which is good and decent! Keep your focus and a good spirit! Don’t ever let anyone bring you down or doubt the truth that you know to be truth!
I hope that you continue to be happy in your church. I know what you mean about the way that fundamentalists can shun you if you do not meet their standards of dress or their other preferences, but don’t let it bother you. They just can’t see past “being associated with the sinful” and we know that unless you are following their way, then you are considered sinful. That’s their issue. Don’t let it effect your worship or your communion with God. I know it’s hard to feel that from a fellow Christian, but just let them be miserable or under their preacher’s condemnation. It is only within their means to free themselves from such “law” and graceless living.
I hope you’re enjoying your worshipping in your church and the fellowship of sincere hearts praising God for His goodness and reaching out to tell others of His goodness! I can just imagine your excitement!
Enjoy your wonderful September, Robin, and everyone else here! It’s been a journey right? We’ve debated, discussed, pointed out truths and lies and made headway in many areas! Let us hope that we all have learned something from all these exchange of words and honestly take them to heart!
It’s good to discuss, even get angry, and then settle back and think and pray and resolve!
Again, I wish you all the best of every possibility!
Smiles 🙂
~~~Heart 😉
Bob & Robin,
I too share in your pain of having loved ones that refuse to even give a listen to the state in which they find themselves and their every action completely absorbed by the leader of their chosen churches.
This type of mind control takes ahold and is relentless. These preachers claim that God supports their teachings and therefore to question them is questioning God and therefore wrong.
My rebuttal to that is simple. When Christ was on this earth, we read throughout His ministry that His disciples questioned Him. They did not do this out of disrespect but rather out of the need and desire to understand!
Understanding of issues, happenings, churches and any given facet in our lives must be questioned and processed continually!
Allow yourself that liberty and permit that also for others! The truth will prevail ultimately!
My heart aches, as do yours Bob & Robin, but as God gives us our daily breath of life, I continue to hope that one day these victims of Fundamentalists will one day be free to live as God intended, redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, being fruitful in good loving churches, surrounded with people pure in heart, humble and honest!
~~~Heart
Thank You Heart, You are so kind. I just pray that God will open their eyes and let them see what these kind of people are. I can’t imagine being brainwashed to the point that I would worship man and not God. But they do it and have no clue that they are. I went tonight to my previous church to vote to not let this cult man bring in Homeschool and my friend was there and she walked right by me and didn’t say a word. They are like walking Zombies in that place. It was so cold in there and I don’t mean temp cold. Ichabod is written across those doors. I have never felt so uncomfortable and I know God was not there at all. I just can’t understand why these IFB’ers don’t see that it is a sick sick cult. Then they come on here and spew hate and names and that we are unGodly because we disagree with them. I am to the point that I laugh at them now because it’s hilarious and I can’t wait to see what stupidness comes out of their mouth next. At least Edward had enough sense to know that it was a losing battle for him and that he didn’t have a chance in changing our minds. I have the full armour of God on and God is with me and I know that God will help me to stand my ground against these cult people. That is why I laugh at them because they don’t realize how dumb they sound saying the same thing over and over and over and over again 😆
I attended HAC. Here Linda Murphrey speaks here of being wrote off by her family when she left. I remember very well Bro Hyles speaking of his wife and all of his children. I beleive her to be way off base in her speech here. Therapists can make you believe things that happend that never really did happen. I worked in the mental health field for years and watch therapist after therapist convince people of things that never really happened. I do nto beleive Linda was the forgotten child of Jack Hyles.
You graduated from HAC and then worked in the mental health field? Exactly what did you do? What are your credentials?
Back in my Fundie days, I read most of Hyles’ books written after Linda left, and I don’t recall him using her as any kind of example as he did with Becky or Cindy. Depending on when you graduated, and when Linda left, when were you hearing Hyles speak about his kids from the pulpit? Frankly, from most sermons and books I’ve been exposed to by Hyles, Linda is the least mentioned of the bunch. Wonder why?
I might as well say that, first, I do believe Linda Murphrey. That said, it’s true that therapies which attempt to recover lost memories have been criticized and often discredited. Here’s the problem: those were often the therapies done by Christian mental health quacks.
Seeing a therapist to deal with actual memories is altogether different from using therapies attempting to recover memories.
When I hear or read statements like ” I worked in the ………… field for years”, or similar, I remember a guy that used to brag about working at a nuclear power plant. I asked, “So, do you sweep the floors?” and he clammed up and wouldn’t talk about it.
“I work at……” isn’t much in the way of credentials.
You remind me of my first job in the publishing business. It was a summer job processing old books the library was getting rid of. My job was to tear out the pocket for the “Date Due” card (I realize younger readers don’t know what I’m talking about) and mark out the stamp that said “Property of Dallas Public Library.”
Kind of dull, but hey, I was in the business.
My wife & I was discussing as to why Linda Murphrey turned out the way she did (to turn against her own father). We believe that Linda got a “taste” of the world, and liked it. That explains why she now is a dance instructor, wears pants, and wears tops that are low enough to show cleavage. The scriptures say things like: 1John 2:15 “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.”; 2Corinthians 6:17 “Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,”; Psalms 1:1-2 “Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.” BTW, Bro. Hyles preached and taught on being separated from the world, as found in the scriptures. We believe that Linda never connected to the God of her dad. She never “caught what he taught”, which is the Word of God. I’m thinking of a very godly family in FBC of Hammond who did an excellent job in raising their son. The son connected to the God of his father, and made his father’s “God”. his “God”. Now, he’s a school principal and has a fine, godly family of 6 children. Linda, you definitely got in the wrong crowd!!! If it was possible for someone to be turning in their grave, your dad would be one turning in his grave. I hurt for you tremendously!!!
Oh, please. Even if she is a dance instructor, who cares? I should think Hyles, if he truly had been godly, would be upset over Schaap’s behavior. Oh, wait, prostate trouble made him have sex with a teenage girl. He’s not guilty after all. 🙄
People who are truly seeking God will find Him at FBC only if they open their Bibles. They certainly didn’t find God in the “Polished Shaft” sermon.
@Tom H.—If you & your wife think that the “taste” of the world, dancing, pants and low-neckline tops are what caused Linda to “turn out the way she did”, then you both need to go back to the think-tank and figure out what caused David Hyles to turn out the way he did!
The correct conclusion: Hypocrisy! Kids know it when they see it in their parents, and react in a million different ways. Some denounce it(Linda) some follow the same example of it(David)and some deny it(Cindy). In light of the recent Schaap scandal, it makes one wonder which god (from his KJV) was Dr. Jack Hyles teaching about?
I guess I don’t see the correlation between Christianity and a woman that wears pants but anyway. Another possibility for her leaving the fundamental independent Baptist cult would be that perhaps she was tired all the tradition and religious repetition spewed from the pulpit by men, that in their own minds, feel that they are Holy enough to cast accusations and judgment upon fellow sinners. Maybe she was disillusioned by her fathers affair with his secretary. Maybe all of the spiritual, emotional, physical and sexual abuse of Christians at the hands of leadership at FBC of Hammond finally put her under conviction to a point that she said enough is enough. About all you can do is take her word at face value. The evidence clearly suggests that the conditions and treatment of people at the hands of her father are most likely true. Everyone thought Jackie boy was the enlightened one too until they found out he was molesting children all while serving at the pulpit……who knows fortunately we are all covered by grace if we have accepted Christ as our savior, even with pants on.
Tom H.,
It is you that I pity completely, but hope that one day your eyes will be opened to the truth!
Anon’s words are amazingly put and carry all the truth needed for anyone to see clearly the ill-effects that jack hyles had on the individuals that he tried to condition into his ways. His ways were not God’s ways but tainted completely by his selfish desires to be successful. Success was not his, as he so often told, in his early years and thusly he strove break that stigma to become an icon, an idol, more simply put!
Go back and do your homework! Gather your wife and those whom you acclaim to have come to your ranting conclusions. Sit down and sincerely pray to God Almighty for guidance. Do this on several occasions even before you place yourselves in an arena of discussions of these topics. Make sure that your communion with God is good, so that you can receive His guidance and blessings as you seek out the truth of the matters, relying on the wisdom that only He can bestow upon you. Remove your bitter judgements and open your hearts to truthfully face the realities of all the years and ill-effects that the ministry that jack hyles maneuvered and manipulated into place.
Until you sincerely approach this topic and accept the bare truth, then you will continue in your blind faith, not of God, but of man and the sinful ways that they have manipulated you into believing are the only and correct path.
Linda Murphrey earned her stripes. Learn from her experiences and grow. Please do hurt for her, because jack hyles hurt her deeply, but may it not have been in vain!
Take action for yourselves. Stop defending the despicable behavior of jack hyles, dave hyles, jack schaap, and the slew of others such as joseph & evangeline combs and the like!
The two of you need to take your blinders off for your own sakes and the your loved ones! I, sincerely, hurt for YOU!
~~~Heart 😕
Ah, ha ha. Nice April fool’s post 😕
If Tom H. isn’t for real, that’s okay, because it never hurts to confront ‘Poe’ fools, on April Fool’s Day or any other time, for that matter!
Been There & Doc…
I can’t say that I am familiar with everyone’s name and so I have no idea if this is an April Fool’s antic, but my words still ring true for all those out there who may be holding on to the views that Tom H. has delivered.
Thanks for the support, Been There and possibly for an astute observation Doc? LOL
~~~Heart 🙄
I Want to her what your Mom says about this! I am sorry if you REALLY went through that! I hope you realize that if it did happen, have you learned to forgive. Thank the Lord that Jesus forgave us!! No one is perfect, and I hope you can really heal! God loves you and I hope you realize that we are all sinners and that you realize that you need Jesus! He loves you and you need to accept Him as your personal savior! Romans 5:8 says ” But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” I feel sorry for you, and I will be praying for you!! I really would love to hear your Mom on this! Try to get her to talk! God Bless!!! I love you in Jesus!
Melissa
Melissa, why do you assume that Ms Murphrey is lying? IF you care about her, why don’t you pray that she will be able to take graciously and lovingly such passive-aggressive nastiness such as your statement. “IF” indeed.
Why do you assume she isn’t lying? Why is it that the ones who complain the most about the subject you like are the ones telling the truth? Anyone who knows anything about how a church is run just laughs at the accusations made my Linda. If it really were as bad as she said, why do you think her daughter went to college there as well? Anger only feeds those with weak minds and hearts. It is not passive-aggressive nastiness to stick up for the ones being lied about either.
The main reason to assume she is not lying is she is giving first hand account information. If she was lying it should be easy to find multiple family members and close associates to who could give corroborating evidence to the contrary. But all we see is Linda being attacked personally. If you can’t defend against the message then defame the messenger.
Collectively we have had similar experiences so we understand Linda’s journey. Many of us have been exposed to either Jack and his empire and/or other men of his ilk and we know Linda is not exaggerating in the story she tells. If anything she is being very reserved and gracious.
It must hit very close to home for you Sid for you to continue to attack Linda and defend the House of Hyles the way you do.
Agreed
Again I ask, why do you assume that she IS lying? If a person calls another person a liar, the burden of proof is on the accuser, not on the accused. Prove that she isn’t, and I’ll believe you and join the chorus.
Just because you may not have ever been a part of a church run that way (or merely not known about it; many people don’t), doesn’t mean that all churches are not run that way. Do not invalidate her experience because it doesn’t match yours.
As for why her daughter went there, I have no idea. Why don’t you ask her? It takes a lot of courage to stand up to that environment, and maybe she just wasn’t ready to do so. I’m not going to speak for anyone’s motives.
WOW! I make one comment…and an honest comment at that, and look at how many negative people come out to defend the accuser. Just because someone says something doesn’t make it true. It doesn’t matter if that person is the daughter and lives in the house of the one she is criticizing. Sounds just like a bunch of junior highers coming to the defense of their peers because “they are all doing it.” That is no reason to believe what Linda has said. How many angry children tell lies about parents just because they don’t get their way?
I laugh at all the narrow-mindedness of those who automatically think Linda is telling the “gospel truth” and that everyone having a different version of the situation are the spawn of satan! The very fact that the comments are so angry and negative against anyone disagreeing with them just proves my point–you can’t always believe someone just because they say what you want to hear. That doesn’t make it truth.
Sydney,
You’ve referred to those people who are running churches, well that they are laughing at Linda… Not Christ-like behavior!
You should seriously get away from that kind of leadership because your prattle is weak and it is apparent that you have allowed yourself to be misguided.
Have a heart and through compassion attempt to understand Linda’s words and the purpose of her forthcomings. Now that is Christ-like behavior!
And, by the way, take a good look at all the history and surrounding evidences before you support the jack hyles, dave hyles, jack schaap and any other associates of whom you choose to advocate!
Surely it’s your prerogative, but choose wisely AFTER you have honestly sought out the truth with honesty and not blind ignorant faith in men!
Until then, don’t cause more harm than good because you are responsible and accountable for the words you gather together and place here for the world to read and for the influences you project! Be careful!
~~~Heart ❗
So Sid, how close is your reputation and financial well being tied to the House of Hyles? Your dogmatic refusal to entertain that Linda may be telling the truth seems to either be a defense of something or someone with intimate ties to the Hyles empire or you have something personal against Linda herself. People just do not knowingly and willingly defend a lie unless there is something personal at stake. What’s your stake in this? (I refuse to believe mere Jack Hyles worship is that strong, there has to be something else.)
you can’t always believe someone just because they say what you want to hear. That doesn’t make it truth.
The converse is equally true: “you can’t always disbelieve someone just because they say something you don’t want to hear. That doesn’t make it a lie.”
First Baptist Church of Hammond and Hyles-Anderson have been corrupt for many, many years. Have your read the Chicago Magazine article from earlier this year? Schaap is just one in a long line of pervs that are the demented fruit of this bad ministry.
And yet Hyles supporters lash out at Linda for daring to say their beloved emperor had no clothes!!!
Enough with the Jack hyles worship there Eddy. Your idol is a false one.
Edward, if you feel that strongly about it,
research it, write a book and publish it.
That’s the American Way!
Would you buy the book ❓ 😛
Well, this has been my first time to write on a blog like this. I can see how you people get so addicted to it. It’s kinda fun. You all can go back to watching and believing Linda. You finally have your witness. Ha Ha Ha. Congrats! Not only do you have deranged family member, you have evidence of more affairs. Wow! How many was that? 50,000?
That’s your problem the Donnie. You are stupid enough to think someone bows down to a man to worship him. And prays to him. So, what year did you get kicked out of HAC, Donnie?
bwhahahaha… I had better sense than to attend a cult indoctrination center.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0fZTCXwKoo
No, not bow down and worship but I believe the video speaks for itself.
All in fun. And the students did that for every preacher who came to chapel. If it were Lee Roberson it was much more crazy. That’s not worship. At one point were were throwing plastic frisbees till one caught on fire in a chandelier. It was just pressure relief days on Wednesdays. It is sad, however, that some have embarrassed the name of HAC and FBH. I pulled out a long time ago. But I do not think JH was guilty of adultery. Could be wrong, though. Obviously, DH and JS have tainted the reputation and that is something we must live with. It is truly sad. So, to all of that there is no defense. But it’s not worship and most of us never looked at him like that.
Sadly, Edward you’re still brainwashed. Those of us who lived it and had the sense to leave understand it for what it is. Linda has courage and I will tell every person who dares slander her for standing up to shut the f*** up and sit the f*** down.
Becky!
You Go Girl!
~~~Heart
“And the students did that for every preacher who came to chapel”
I was there, that is a bit misleading. Sure other preachers were welcomed and clapped for but rarely did anyone get the applauds, accolades, standing ovation and cheers like Hyles Hitler did.
And here we have a new troll named Edward. Look at how he appears to be arguing with himself. If you recall, the troll’s native habitat is their parent’s basement or local library. Food of choice is Cheetos and Pop-Tarts. The troll lives by the rule that healthy eating is not as important as winning the internet one post at a time.
While trolls are generally harmless they can cause grief for people not used to dealing with them. Remember, do not feed them or get them wet after midnight.
Sounds just like Obama. When he is being exposed, he turns to ridiculing the accusers! What chance does our nation have if Christians have to resort to the same tactics?????
WTFriday does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
Help. I’m getting tag-teamed! How did the referee not see that they didn’t properly tag each other? What’s next, a foreign object in the ring?
Don’t make me rip my shirt off like Hulk Hogan. I’ll get all the Hulkamaniacs after you. Brother.
I doubt very much that Scorpio cares much about his nation. It’s all senseless. They are all here because they have nothing better to do.
I do care about my nation. Maybe you should ask me what my nation is?
Ok, what is your nation?
Is that why your here EDWARD?? Apparently you have nothing better to do?? Judging and yet it’s ok for you to be on here. But everyone else has nothing better to do huh? SMH 🙄
Are you really gonna ask me a question about judging? You have got to be kidding me. I dare you to go back to the top of this subject and see how many people are judging somebody. That’s all this about. Judging. I think you hit the nail on the head. I guess that is why I am here. Because I was disgusted by Linda. Some of us know Linda and its sick that she jumped in now. So, yes I’m judging, I guess. And I think that JS took the biggest fall in the history of churches and hurt many, many people. I think it’s a shame. A disgrace. It’s abuse. But that doesn’t mean tahat I have to believe Linda and her 150 dollar per hour publicity stunt.
Ed – FYI, this video was from April of this year. Well before the Schaap hit the fan. (Sorry I couldn’t resist)
Scorpio, she is cashin in, Dude. Yes, it was before and that’s why I said it was more than she could chew. Here ad worked better than she thought it would. Schaap made her famous again.
Jack Hyles, David Hyles, Jack Schaap, Joe Combs (this is just the beginning)…that church/college has been responsible for releasing 100s of pedifiles into churches/schools all over this country!
Dude, you’re an asshole. Try reading her credentials. She’s a motivational speaker and helps professionals around the country. This is what she does for a living. The only reason it’s on the internet now is because it’s the right time for it to be shared. So that those of us who have lived the hell of this cult or who have any secrets about the fundies can relate and heal from the garbage. So, take your troll bullshit and hit the road.
Becky Murphy, Is it really necessary to resort to the world’s vulgar language? Can you not express yourself without profanity? No wonder you left the fundamental churches. You didn’t feel comfortable around people who didn’t talk in such an ungodly, unChristianlike manner. If you are a Christian, you should know better. If you aren’t, then you should search out someone who can lead you to Christ because from your blog, you certainly sound like you need Him.
Dear Eddie,
We have all moved on to other things today.
Sincerely,
Victoria
😎
I’m confused. If you have moved on to other things, then why we’re you reading this post?
But have a good day just the same.
Thanks
Shelton, is that you?
❓
Is that a serious question? No
John?
❓
Edward
My daddy was a cult leader! He had 50,000 wonderful people following him. He had many, many girlfriends and my momma didn’t care. He had a mistress, too! He hated my momma! Exept when he made me and my three siblings. But I broke free and I can help you. Click on the pay button for 150.00 per session rate. http://www.coachingthebestyou.com/
Good one, Edward. I saw that before, as well.
Get a room!
We have a room. Your room. So bust out the Cheetos hulk dude.
Finally some company. Pull up a chair. Ever play WoW?
Everyone kept saying, “why would she lie.” Well, let’s see. 150 per hour would put her at about 312,000.00 yearly if she can drum up enough business. Um! That’s true concern. And don’t forget she did say she loved the lavish lifestyle.
Thanks for the invite. Your much nicer than it first seemed. Too bad I don’t trust you.
You can trust me Ed. Until I pull out the handcuffs and poppers.
Good point, Edward.
After all, “shock value” sells!
Who would sign up to pay her $150 if she said, “I had a wonderful Christian childhood. My father was pastor of the greatest church in the world. He showered me with lavish gifts, gorgeous clothes all my life. He even graciously paid for a house, car and new furniture for me when I got married.
I have a very beautiful and loving mother, two sisters and a brother. Life is good.”
That would have been the end of her story — and no $300,000+ per year income!
Right on Sydney. It doesn’t change the current situation in Hammond. Jack Schaap did more damage than the world will ever know. But that doesn’t men Linda is telling the truth. And the fact that people give her an ear is beyond me. They are just looking for the dirt. I have a feeling she took the video down because it got so much play over the Schaap thing and she bit off more than she could chew. Furthermore, no one replies about the fact that her daughter, whose name we shall protect, went back. There is a lot to that.
Thank you! I too, was new to this blog & began telling of the lies in Linda’s speech, for which I was massively bombarded with Linda “worshippers” calling me names & treating me with hate and disdain. They don’t want to know the truth. They want the lies to go on.
And I thought this was a site for “Stuff Fundies Like.” I know of no fundamentalists that “like” any of this! Nearly everyone on this site is a fundamentalist hater. Go figure!
Sydney – This web site is a satirical look at fundamentalism in the independant baptist churches. Satire is your friend if you know how to use it.
Really??? Have you been reading these comments? Maybe they should be told it’s satire because there is nothing satirical about it. All I read is a bunch of angry, bitter, fundamentalist haters venting & dumping on anyone who has the audacity to say anything good about FBCH, any fundamental church, or anyone who attends one. Funny you would think this is satire for it clearly is not.
Sydney, you must realize how ridiculous some fundamentalists are!
Absolutely! However, the comments on this blog, relating to the speech given by Linda Hyles Murphrey, as well as those relating to Jack Schaap, and others, are not said in satire!
I come from a very funny family, but even if you’re the brut of the joke, everyone knows it’s funny.
This stuff isn’t funny. Only a comment here & there even sound humorous on any level.
It sounds like a bunch of fundamentalist haters who are using lies and sins to promote their adgenda.
I find it all so sad that Christians have to resort to this kind of disagreements when we all should be fighting the same fight — against the Devil.
No Victoria. In Sydney’s world, WE are the problem. We’re just bitter.
Victoria is right. Some fundamentalist are ridiculous. Some. But that does not mean that all are. But there are rediculous people and leaders everwhere, not just fundamentalism. Just pick your group and google it and add “pastor arrested” and you will see. And the truth is, fundamentalist wave the highest standard, therefore, we should have the highest standards. There is plenty of shame to go around and we, as a group. Deserve the critism. There have been some terrible atrocities and is shouldn’t be. It just shouldn’t be! But that does no mean that there are not good people who love the Lord and I believe that is the greater whole of fundamentalism. The site is definitely not fundy friendly. And that’s their right. I would guess that many of the people venting on sites like this have been hurt. Perhaps they are victims, too. I only wish they could see THIER own inconsistencies. Scorpio uses sexual humor on a site supposedly heralding sexual purity. I don’t find it funny. Nor does the Lord. God does not laugh at Jack Schaaps sin, mine, yours, or Scorpios making a mockery of sin. I think it’s time to be quiet. The Bilbe says its a shone to speak of those things done in secret. This country has lost is blush. And unfortunately, some of our fundamental leaders have played a part in this loss. It’s a shame.
“Victoria is right. Some fundamentalist are ridiculous. Some. But that does not mean that all are.”
With that said, what about today’s post subjects?
**crickets**
There are lies and there is deception. These are often used interchangeably (this should NOT be) but in Bible they are different.
Linda is being accused of lying (by some) but in reality if she is doing it for the money (as some claim) it’s deception. That’s different than just lying.
As far as to why someone lies, it’s because they are afraid (fearful) of the consequences of telling the truth.
Genesis 26:7 And the men of the place asked him of his wife; and he said, She is my sister: for he FEARED to say, She is my wife; lest, said he, the men of the place should kill me for Rebekah; because she was fair to look upon.
Fear is not an excuse for lying. Linda was not afraid for her life. She gave her speech in April of this year. Her dad has been dead for 12 years now. This speech was not given out of fear. It was given out of spite and hatred.
By the way, Daniel, the verse you quoted has nothing whatsoever to do with the situation.
And, Abraham was not excused for his lying any more than Linda should be!
Sydney,
You have no right to accuse Linda of lying.
Who are YOU to call her a liar, which is what you are doing!
And why do you labor over trying to prove that what she is saying is false. Why would anyone want to cause such strife in their life? It’s mute for you to take the stance that you do. There are countless individuals, countless evidences, countless circumstances that prove that the accusations of the actions of Jack Hyles are true.
The same goes for Jack Schaap.
My dear Sydney, sit back. Remember, read, look, listen, pray, and open your heart to the facts of the matters that are before you. Calm down that haughty spirit. Humble yourself. Come before the Lord and with a willing heart request guidance like you have never requested it before. Isolate yourself and think for yourself. Be alone with God and know that you are responsible for your words. Stop your hurtful words that are directed to those who have been hurt by these men!
While truth is truth, whether out of the mouth of Jack Hyles, Linda Murphrey, Jack Schaap, or satan himself, truth is truth and will continue to be truth and so goes lies. Lies are lies from whatever source. Be mindful and have the discretion to differentiate between the two and if you have no supporting grounds in which to make judgement, then you have no right to judge.
So, my dear Sydney, take that quiet moment for yourself. You will find a better way of living, a better awareness, and an overall change in your aspects of life if you truly are yielded to understanding love and life and the goodness of God!
I wish you well!
~~~Heart
Heart, you are another of the angry, bitter, fundamentalist haters that are so blinded by your hatred that you can’t believe anything that doesn’t serve your purpose.
I have gone over a whole list of lies directly from the transcript of Linda’s speech, and refuted each and every one of them. If you choose to believe her, be my guest, but for you to close your mind to the truth is idiocy!
By the way, didn’t you read the comments made earlier today that this site is supposed to be a satire. Well, there is nothing satirical about your comments. You’re just thriving on hatred. You don’t want the truth. You only want to believe the anger & lies being spread.
You need to get in the Bible, pray & ask God to open your eyes to the truth and not just the negative gossip spread by a bitter daughter. But, I guess you can relate more with spreading the anger & bitterness than with the truth.
Each of your earlier comments has been so annoying that I wouldn’t even finish reading them. You were just ranting about things you know nothing about.
Truth is truth, whether or not you want to believe it.
This site my be indeed been created in and for satire but there’s discussion of real issues HERE.
Remember there’s a Bible principle in effect here.
Genesis 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
Daniel,
Yes! These are real issues that effect real lives and real feelings! If there is any “genre” of discussion that should be treated “REAL” it is the discussion of how the matters of God and Christianity are handled!
We must take a stand in order to stop these horrible actions that men like Jack Hyles, Jack Schaap, Joseph and Evangeline Combs, and numerous individuals take!
This looks like an interesting read. I have not read it but I hope to. Here is the link:
http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2008/04/schizophrenic-christianity.html
~~~Heart
The verse I quoted was representing a Bible principle. People lie when they are afraid of the consquences. That’s a Bible fact. How many verses do you need? Why not study it yourself?
In light of this Bible FACT, if linda is lying she would be doing so for a this reason, I don’t see it that way so the only other alternative is she is being deceptive (which includes lying) for some reason. Prove THAT REASON and you’ll prove she is lying (if she is)
If anyone thinks she is lying. Prove it!
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
It’s pretty obvious.
What’s sad is that thanks to Jack Hyles (Hitler) Linda has taken up with other ways to “cope” with what happened. She never even said if she was saved or what she has done with the Lord Jesus Christ.
Doesn’t anyone even consider this or care?
Edward,
Let me get this straight. You said, (putting words in Linda’s mouth) “He hated my momma! Exept [sic] when he made me and my three siblings.”
Are you saying that because Jack Hyles had sex with his wife this proves he loved her? Seriously?
I wouldn’t worry to much about Edward. Jack is long gone, his reputation/legacy questionable at best, his life’s work is left shamed, his family is broken and disfunctional. Edward can defend this madness all he wants but the truth has been revealed. Jack Hyles, Schaap and all the other’s hiding behind a thin veil of religion will one day have to answer for their actions. The Edwards can talk and defend the actions of their heros all they want but the truth has come out.
At least you are polite. Yes, Jack is long gone. And Schaap was long gone a while back, too. He was on a slippery path to this tragedy. But that does not convict JH. And neither does Linda. But you are right about the family part. Truly sad.
Job 28:11 He bindeth the floods from overflowing; and the thing that is hid bringeth he forth to light.
I agree. It is sad. I pray that the FBC will find a good Godly man to lead and that all the families involved will find peace and heal from all that they have endured.
Well, we agree about that, too. Whoever the man is, he will surely have his work cut out for him and will need the Lord in an unbelievable way. And yes, the victims are the ones who hurt the most. The girl, her family, and a lot of people who trusted him. And I’m sad that the actions of DH and JH have tainted the reputation of JH. I really believe, though I know I could be wrong, that he was clean. But it’s hard to argue it now for sure due to this lates tragedy.
Can anyone say. Tiger Woods? Remember how the girls were coming out of the woodwork. Why? Because every affair left a victim. A victim who felt shame, guilt, and rejection. Where are the victims of Jack Hyles? If it were true that there wer 19 or whatever affairs, why has there not been a single girl come forward? No pictures. No messages. Nothing. Lies about letters that were never produced. But no evidence. It can’t be hidden that well. Just ask Dave and Jack jr.
Yes, we remember these men:
Tiger Woods
J.F. Kennedy
Ted Kennedy
Jesse Jackson
Bill Clinton
Jack Hyles
Roman Polanski
MOHAMMAD
Well, aren’t you funny???? NOT!!!
Sydney,
My list was not intended to cause you to laugh. It was and is a serious list that Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap can be categorized in.
Edward, do you qualify for this list?
Do most men fall into this list? I would venture to say NO! We live by self-implied moral standards! That is a good thing! That is something in which you can take pride!
But once you have “sinned” in this manner, well, you fall under this category and all the repercussions of your actions should fall upon you!
Jack Schaap will now face criminal justice procedures and if we go further should become a registered sex offender, so that our land, more importantly, our children will be safe from him and offenders like him.
Jack Schaap’s 10 year celebration at the church boasts his accomplishments in a YouTube video, but all of that boasting of accomplishments amounts to nothing after the fact that he sexually abused a child who came to him and trusted his judgement. His endeavors throughout the years should be wiped out.
Saving, or leading thousands to Christ does not give you the permission to hurt one little girl! Nothing gave Jack Schaap that right! NOTHING!
Shame on Jack Schaap! Shame on you Sydney! Shame on you Edward!
Think of the hurting people, from the most extremely hurt, to even yourselves. At this moment both of YOU are hurting too!
Hearts are heavy. The hearts that supported the Jacks all these years and the hearts that left that cultist distorted way of living.
Hope now, for a better today, and do your best to make sure this does not happen again! Don’t assist Jack Schaap in his actions because if you jump to his defense, well, that certainly does not make you any better than him.
I went to church that Wednesday night right after his dismissal. I ran into an old college friend. From her mouth was a flood of excuses for Jack Schaap, while standing beside her was her daughter… WE KNOW her words would have been much different if it would have been her daughter that he had abused!
Use your brain!
~~~Heart
Uh, excuse me! I didn’t defend jack Schaap one time. So don’t be so ignorant.
Sydney,
My words are not driven by anger as I have very mindfully stated them, but they are filled with concern for the past of all those people who these men have hurt and for the future of the possible victims. You only are taking in what you want to and not really reading what I have said.
Your words continue to prove, by your own accord, in stating that you have not even finished reading statements, that you refuse to know the truth.
This site is, as with any other site, a free speech network. So your reference to it being a satire is also mute.
Whether you think it apropos for you to turn my words and advice that I gave to you and use it to advise me, well, I only take it as I gave it as I continue to humble myself as I approach His throne. I will not let Jack Schaap slither away quietly without accountability, no more than I would any man who did what he did!
I have found my peace and purpose. I hope you find yours. And unless you have anything to say that is worthy and not mimicked, not evident by cultish conditioning and not denial, then I do not find your babble and ill-hearted words of any merit.
I speak of what I speak of, through my own experiences under their preachings, through church membership, through HAC enrollment and through all the years of experiences in the Fundamental Baptist Church. Of that which I know nothing of, I do not claim to be the wiser, unlike you and your accusations of Linda. But I speak of first-hand knowledge.
Sydney, I’ve wished you well. I wish you well again, and I my heart goes out to you as you continue to follow blindly and live in a state of ignorance. My hopes are that one day the blinders will be removed from your vision and that at that point, it will not be at a greater cost than those who have already been given their vision back!
Think about it Sydney, we are sisters in Christ, and brothers. That being said, we do have the right to differ on matters that are preferences. We do not have the right to differ on truths. We battle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities… against spiritual wickedness in high places…
How and with who will you choose your battle Sydney?
~~~Heart
Yes, we remember these men:
Tiger Woods
J.F. Kennedy
Ted Kennedy
Jesse Jackson
Bill Clinton
Jack Hyles
Roman Polanski
MOHAMMAD
Yes, we remember these men:
Tiger Woods
J.F. Kennedy
Ted Kennedy
Jesse Jackson
Bill Clinton
Jack Hyles
Roman Polanski
MOHAMMAD ……………JACK SCHAAP!!! Yes, they all committed adultery after having been in a position of authority. The biggest shame of all is that Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap represented the church, represented God and boasted such high moral standards from an ordained by God position! They have been hypocrites! It’s such a sad thing to read that Edward defends along with Sydney. Stop defending the MEN, hold true to God, but not these pitiful men. Especially the pedophile Jack Schaap!
Call it like it is people. Prosecute to the fullest extent of the law because believe me, if YOU were sitting in his congregation and YOU were the one that had committed this horrible “sin”, well, YOU would be in cuffs and judgement would fall upon YOU in a heart beat! In fact, Jack Schaap would proport to hate the sin and love the sinner, while making sure that you were banished and put into your assigned place of shame.
Stop defending Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap and stop badgering Linda. The pain that these men created is real!
Open your blinded eyes!
~~~Heart
Heart!! WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!! HUGE THANKS!!!!!!!!
(But why do I get this feeling Edward and Sydney still won’t get it??!!)
Robin,
Thank you for your support. It is a sad scenario.
And yes, your feeling is right… Edward and Sydney still won’t get it because they too are victims of this cultist conditioning! They have fallen prey to these predators of the faith.
We, who have escaped their control, also fight the conditioning that was pounded into those formidable years. Yet, we, however, have learned or are learning to re-condition our thought processes in order to decide our way clearly and progress.
Unless Edward, Sydney and the likes of those manipulated individuals remove themselves from this unhealthy environment and place themselves in a good loving atmosphere that truly expresses the love of God and the goodness of the life that He has given, then Edward and Sydney and all those misguided Independent Fundamental Baptist members will never ever know what it is to think for themselves. They will not know the feeling of deciding between right from wrong because they have thought it through. No, they will lean on the church and let the church, or one person make those decisions for them. In turn, they will blindly support that church or that preacher to the bitter end, even though the TRUTH is right before their eyes and the eyes of the world!
We must not forget that we are all accountable for our own actions! Those who place themselves in positions are great authority are accountable for themselves AND accountable to others! Such is the way of life!
With great privilege comes even greater responsibility! Jack Schaap must be responsible for his actions! In all reality, right at this moment, wherever he is, whatever he is doing, well, he must be in such deep pain, sorrow, anguish, remorse, humility, fear, regret and the lowest of low in the knowledge of the fact that he has caused so much pain to so many people.
Just think how he must be feeling when he is on his knees, head to the ground, before the Creator of this amazing universe to which he DELIBERATELY manipulated the authority of his position, as the pastor of one of the largest churches in America, possibly the world, in order to put his hands on this child!
It was no “happen-stance”, they were premeditated rendezvous. The relationship was on-going. Which means, preaching from the pulpit on one day, while secret sessions on another, then back to preaching from the pulpit again and the routine continued.
No, my dear people, all of you wonderful people, on whichever side you find yourself on at this time, please realize the TRUTH of the matter at hand. Free yourself from anyone’s “conditioning of your mind” and think for yourself. The TRUTH is set before your eyes. It shall set you free indeed and in finding that freedom, no matter how hard it is to face the TRUTH, you will eventually heal and grow and make better decisions for the future that is before you and the future of your children, which in deed is the future of our great land!
This is not an easy task, but Edward, Sydney and all of you silent Fundamental Baptist church members, please know that no one wants another injustice by wrongfully accusing anyone of any sin. No, we are just pointing out the TRUTH…
YOU CANNOT DENY THE TRUTH… if you do… where does that leave YOU?
~~~Heart
Heart,…Unlike alot of you, I was blessed to have figured out the IFB Pastor that was brought into our church this past year before any damage could be done to me. We were lied to about what he was. I left as soon as he said he was an IFB. I started looking up what an IFB was and spent hours online and asking my Pastor friends and they told me to get my family out of there and don’t look back. From what I have been told and what I have read, these people are SICK and destroy church’s and people’s lives. I am mortified!! And don’t think for one minute that everytime I pray, I thank God for opening my eyes immediately! I have heard that recently some of the people are starting to see what kind of person he is and they don’t like him too much now. Some families have left already right after I did. I am going to another church that is loving and Godly and the people there are so sweet. God will deal with these IFB Pastors for what they are doing in HIS name. It just breaks my heart that the followers of these people are so blinded and brainwashed. So no one can say I am bitter or angry because I am NOT! God removed me before anything could happen to me so therefor I have no reason to be angry or bitter. God showed me what these IFB’ers are and that I should leave and so I did.
Robin,
😀 I am so thrilled to know that you removed yourself and your family from that type of leadership! I’m glad that you will never be conformed to that way of thinking and that way of judging yourself and others!
Keep your sweet loving heart and a love from above in all that you do in your life! Remember that everything we experience is learning and living. Don’t ever stop experiencing life and become a drone under the dictatorship of someone who is self-righteous and self-important and above everyone else!
Girl, you have a wonderful and intelligent head on your shoulders! I’m so glad that you have thought this through and made the decision for yourself! I am proud of you! Keep bright and share the goodness of what you have learned. Stay positive and uplifting but always cautious for yourself, your children, your family and those around you.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. It makes me smile!
Hugs OOO
~~~Heart :heart:
Dear Heart:
You wrote: ‘…a good loving atmosphere that truly expresses the love of God and the goodness of the life that He has given …’
That sums what, in my opinion, is the precise strategy that will purge this blight from us.
The more evident it is that God’s Spirit and grace are with us and not with congregations that are essentially sub-Christian, the more those aberrant congregations will be abandoned by their adherents.
This is Biblical.
‘You will again distinguish between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him’ [Malachi 3:18].
We can offer preaching that comes from the text, that proclaims the heart of God, that casts a vision of life framed around the death and resurrection of Christ, that gives healthy direction for life, and that breathes faith with every breath.
I never heard this in my Bob Jones University days. The bottom line, we have SO much more to offer!
Christian Socialist
Christian Socialist,
The world needs more stand-up compassionate men like you! Don’t ever stop bringing forth every aspect of life that you just pointed out… from the loving aspect to the strong posture… I hope you share these facets of life, giving each of them their proper places in our lives and the permission to enjoy them all!
Love and loving is of God and while the determinations of sin are also present, let us not live in complete judgement under tyrannical entities and their atrocities.
Let’s find an even balance, after all, these are all creations and blessings of the Most High for us to enjoy and experience. If we falter along the way, let’s help our fellow human being up and give them assistance to continue on the right track, in a loving way, with encouragement and faith in their capabilities, to regain their composure and fight the good fight while enjoying His blessings throughout life!
Let’s not, however, enable those double-minded, evil hearts who’s intentions they, themselves cloak with the very fabric that was paid for by the greatest story ever told!
Stand strong and true Christian Socialist! Like I said, the world needs more stand-up compassionate men like you! We have a few in this forum and for all of them, I too am grateful! Thank you all!
~~~Heart
Thank you Heart 🙂 Just be praying that God will open the eyes of the rest of the people at my previous church. I still pray for them daily. I am so so thanful that God showed me what an IFB was and got me out of there. I don’t know if I could have handled the mess that they cause 🙂
Robin,
You have no idea how relieved I am that you have avoided it all! Now get out there and enjoy your church and it’s endeavors as you enjoy life both in church and in your daily living! You’ve got some spunk girl! Share that with the people around you because that is a great gift! I’m sure you are contagious! Teach others exactly what you have learned in a style that is all your own! Thanks for sharing!
~~~Heart
I never knew how stupid you people are until a read your posts, you misquote me from like two posts earlier. Just totally ignorant. And so, good bye. Sorry for the pain someone must have caused you.
Edward,
It is clear that your heart has been touched by what you have read here. I can see that goodness that wants to come out and be empathetic to those of us who stand firm in our views of these situations both past and present. I want to thank you for that! Thank you for expressing your sorrow for the pain that these men have caused us.
And even though you call us ignorant and stupid on one hand… you ease that blow with the sympathetic phrase expressing sorrow for our pain. I think we’ve made some progress here!
As I mentioned to Sydney, the true battle is against “spiritual wickedness in high places”. Let’s stay focused on becoming better and learning from mistakes, in order to fight the real war against wrong and not each other.
You are a good man with a good heart. I would hope that you would continue to search out the truth with an open heart and listen to what everyone is saying here and across the board.
Don’t run off angry and unsettled. Stay and share and learn and grow. Righteous indignation is righteous. Learn what spurs your indignation, then righteously, you can fight against true evil and you can support that which is good! OK? 🙂
~~~Heart
Edward, they only see & hear what they want to. They do not care about the truth. They only care about any dirt they can smear on other good godly Christians. Just because a few fundamentalists have done wrong, they lump all in with the few. You’re right, they are stupid.
Sydney – Assuming for a minute you are not a Poe, because the more you post the more I think you cannot be real, upthread you criticized Becky Muphy for using vulgar language saying it is unChristlike. Yet here you call all of us stupid. How Christ-like is that?
Sydney=Hypocrite! It’s ok for Sydney to call names and critisize all those who do not agree with the great Sydney. All one has to do is google IFB and know every filthy thing about them. No need to argue about it because they are what they are. It is the truth but as Jack Nicholson says “They can’t handle the truth” They are so brainwashed and blinded that they will not see. God says He will harden hearts and that they won’t see what was in front of them all along. That is what God has done to Sydney and the rest of the Koolaid drinkers 😉
Robin – we aren’t the ones with the hard hearts — spreading all the dirt that can be dug up of things that may, or may not even be true. You only believe what you believe because of your hard heart & hatred toward fundamental Christians. What you need to realize is that whatever church you attend (assuming you go to church at all) has more problems per capita than FBCH by far! I never excuse sin, but I also am not out to harm everyone who has ever been influenced for good by those who have sinned.
Just look at all those in the Bible who committed major sins (not that any sin is minor) and whom God used to do great works for Him. Moses only struck the rock twice instead of once (as God has instructed him) and for that he was not allowed to go into the Promised Land. Wow! Even though he was allowed to lead the Children of Israel through the desert for those 40 years, he was still punished. And the Children of Israel were made to wander in the wilderness for 40 years because of their complaining!
Look at David and all the good work for God he did after his sinning with Bathsheba, yet he too was punished (by God). Then there was Abraham sinning with Hagar, which has caused the entire problem in the middle east today. Sin will always be punished. It’s just not our job to act as God in the degree and method of punishment necessary.
The way you talk sounds like, if you think a person who has sinned is not being punished enough, then it’s up to you to complain, gripe and try to tear down any good that person may have done in the past until you think they are punished enough. Well, you will never be satisfied. Anyone who was saved through the ministry of Jack Schaap is just as saved even though he has sinned and forfeited his right to pastor FBC, as well as any other punishment God imposes on him.
I keep hearing so many on this blog talking how small our God is that He needs men to spread His Word. Well, that’s exactly what you think about your god needing you to spread the negatives about anyone with whom you may or may not have even had any contact.
You are not omniscient, but my GOD is. You are not omnipresent, but my GOD is. You are not all powerful, but my GOD is.
God knows all and punishes ALL SIN — that includes yours and mine, as well as Jack Schaap’s.
Sydney,
In your rant, you failed to appropriately understand the issue at hand.
You addressed GOD’S REDEEMING EFFECTS of those men in the Bible who had sinned. You are not looking at how their sins immediately effected those people around them and God’s intended will.
We are addressing the SIN of those men, their ACCOUNTABILITY and how their actions effect the people around them that they were guiding, as their shepherd.
Specifically, we are speaking of Jack Hyles, Jack Schaap, and all these IFB fornicators in highly regarded positions.
So… our debate is not on the same platform, if you will. You stand firm on what you have just pointed out that God can use individuals even after they have made a mistake and we don’t argue that justice, but as with Moses, God definitely imposes repercussions that are indeed a form of discipline for having sinned, as in not letting Moses enter the promise land. And so goes it with these men. They will and should, justly so, pay the price for their sin. You said it yourself!
And when God prohibited Moses from entering the promise land, it was not swept under the proverbial rug, it was not kept a secret, it was not hushed, it was not covered up, no… everyone was made aware of his “sin”, everyone knew, everyone speculated and talked, assumably so, and I’m sure there were individuals, just like you, that supported Moses and proclaimed his greatness. But…
… that would have meant, in proclaiming Moses’s greatness and in proclaiming to support him, well, that would mean that you were standing in opposition to God’s decision and discipline applied.
Sydney… that is where you stand now as you support the greatness of Jack Schaap and in supporting this man.
He, like Moses, was possibly inept to lead.
He, like Moses, was given a chance to lead, by God.
He, like Moses, by God, accomplished great things.
He, like Moses, was blessed.
He, like Moses, sinned.
AND…
He, like Moses, was judged by God.
He, like Moses, paid or will pay the price for his sin.
And we, who have been effected, are privy to all of this because it has effected us all.
Sure, the goodness of good actions will have had their effects and that is a good thing, no one denies that.
But, the evil of sin and it’s wicked web and entangles will have their effects also and that is a horrible, horrible sin, especially when it is within church walls!!
Sydney, you need to bring yourself to our platform and honestly look at what we are trying to point out here and accomplish. We are not wanting to wait for GOD’S REDEEMING EFFECTS after the fall out, no we are hoping to have GOD’S FULL AND BLESSED EFFECTS before the men sin. We are showing the SIN of these men in hopes to prevent more hurt hearts and even more importantly physically hurt bodies that have been put through physical events that should never ever ever take place!
Sydney, open your mind. Understand this. Stop being so hard. Your spirit is tainted and you sound full of maliciously placed anger. That should not be the case. You are attacking people. Calm your spirit… be still and know that HE is God! I’m praying for you that you will truly know the Omniscience of our God, the Omnipower of our God, the Omnipresence of our God, but bringing it down to what we understand… the LOVE of Our God!
I’m here, I’m reading, I’m listening. I’m willing to open my heart and my mind, I did that for years and for years I was let down, time after time and now with Jack Schaap’s “SIN” once again, the IFB movement has failed miserably.
Sydney, do you dare to support “MOSES” while God is against his “SIN”?
Sydney, do you dare to support “JACK” while God is against his “SIN”?
Hate the sin, love the sinner, but don’t take sides against God’s justice!
Once again, I wish you well and peace of mind that only comes with a renewing of the mind in the trueness of God!
~~~Heart
I’m sorry, Heart, but you are missing my entire point. The point is not to excuse or hide sin. The point is for us not to be the judge & jury on that sin. That is God’s place. With the anger evoked in the comments I’ve read, so many are taking God out of the equation & and putting the duty on themselves to “reveal” the sins of others. That is God’s place, and God’s alone. By spreading the “news” of sins we are only harming others. It has nothing to do with siding with Jack Schaap. I don’t excuse anything he has done. And I definitely don’t agree with what he has done. I’m simply saying that getting so angry that you feel you have the sole responsibility of exposing all for everyone to know is not our place. God will take care of any “exposing of sin” He deems necessary.
Life is too short to spend it filled with hate and spreading that hate to others. Leave it to God and He will take care of everything.
For those who have been hurt by this situation, I am extremely sorry, but it doesn’t help by going on and on about every little detail that ever may or may not have happened. If you don’t like what’s going on, get out of it, but trying to proselyte others is not the way to further your life.
So many think it their mission to convert everyone to having the same standards as they have. That is no more acceptable than for those who are opposed to the standards to try and demand others “open their eyes” to their way of thinking.
I find that the difference between most Baptist churches is their level of standards. There is a difference between standards and convictions. A conviction is something you are willing to die for. A standard is a level of living and a choice. It is not a requirement for salvation, or even a requirement for church membership. So many who have left fundamental churches have left due to the differences of opinion on what their standards of living should be. I have no problem with that. I do, however, have a huge problem with those who have left fundamental churches (or any church for that matter) and then turned their differences of opinion to matters of fact, and make it their mission in life to convert others who may have a different standard than them.
When I heard of the situation in FBC, I was deeply hurt. I felt the pastor had betrayed his calling of God and the people who are led by God to follow his leadership. I have never thought of any pastor as a perfect person. After all, we are all sinful human beings, however, being put in that position of leadership gives you greater responsibilities, and with such causes the Devil to fight all the harder to get you to fall.
My conclusion is that in this case the Devil has won. However, we, as Christians, need to join together in the fight against the Devil, and for the furthering of the cause of Christ.
Yes, God does use men to do His work. No, He doesn’t have to, but He chose to. I find it quite humbling to think that God loves me so much that He wants me to be a part of His work. How about you????
Heart,
I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate the attitude with which you communicate. There is a graciousness about your replies as you speak the truth in love.
Pastor’s Wife,
Aw… Thank you! It’s within us all… you know… the urgent feeling like when we see the car coming and we rush to hold the child back so that child won’t get hurt by the oncoming car… The fear of a bad outcome is the driving force and then the joy of having prevented the child from harm brings a smile to both the defended and defender!
If I can reach out in love, even though it may hurt at times, the full intent and purpose of my efforts are for benefits that are bathed in truth and if I falter or have become misguided, I would hope that another, such as myself, would find the same efforts in defending me against harm! It is within us if we seek it out, the goodness to perform goodness! Just like you! Thank you for sharing your goodness with me!
You’ve made me smile and blessed my heart! Thank You Pastor’s Wife!
~~~Heart
I think I’m going to be sick. 🙂
thartofglass,
And I’m guessing this is where the acclaimation of satire rears it’s ugly head?
Albeit, all I have to say, is that I have worked the Chicago bus ministries via IFB and I have seen how these children have been treated. I have worked with the homeless and seen their lowly states of being and how they have been treated. I have seen the separation of A Sunday School and B Sunday School and Spanish church for that matter, creating a hierarchy of social and economic status. Ecetera. I have seen and felt the pain.
Bottom line again here, is that we are all in this together. We deserve to be treated fairly and lovingly and with an understanding that is patient and Christ-like. Do you not agree? And if you do not, it doesn’t change my way and approach in these matters. We are all responsible for the children. And… aren’t we Christians, God’s Children?
I hope you feel better! ~ 😆
~~~Heart
No worries. I was just responding to the warm loving spirit going on here. Almost made me feel gooey. Not complaining just feeling the love 🙂
thartofglass,
Awwww…. I think I would call that… being a brat! 😛 lol and well, that’s ok. I’m pretty sure right about now that you were a lil mischievous “child”! lol
Be good now and go find some worthy efforts that you can get your hands busy with!
Thanks for lightening up the spirit of things… brat! lol
Live, Love, Laugh, Sing, Dance and be a brat sometimes!
~~~Heart
Syndney, How dare YOU of all people to say ASSume I go to church at all??? Do you know what it means to ASSume something? You call yourself a Christian but yet you judge me? You are nothing but a hypocrite. I do not hate anyone. I hate their sin as the bible (you know GODS WORD??) says to do. Why don’t you get your head out of the sand and see what these people are. You keep making false accusations agains’t me and you don’t even know me. I choose to NOT be brainwashed and I choose to NOT be in a cult. So therefor I left when my previous church stupidly briught in an IFB pastor. I don’t hear all this stuff about any other pastors except IFB pastors. And the sad thing is your so far gone in the brainwashing that you may never come out of it!!!! But just because I disagree with you does not make me BITTER, HATEFUL,NON CHRISTIAN, UNCHURCHED. But it’s people like YOU that make me NOT want to go to church because if being a Christian is what you say you are, then I don’t want to be anything like you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And one thing they each have in common are voices who had affairs. Jack
Schaap was caught red handed. Where is the lady who accuses Jack Hyles. I do not stand here to say it didn’t happen. I’m just saying you have NOTHING. LATER
Don’t take my Cheetos as you’re leaving.
??? if the female is a willing, active participant in Jack Hyles affair why would there be a woman accuser? Why must it be a woman accuser at all?Jacks Wife has a vested self interest in not saying anything. Yet when the husband of the woman Jack was haveing the affair with makes the accusation he is villified, demonized and made out to be a liar. Why don’t you ask the Nischik children and see what they thought of Jack Hyles?
Here is Judy’s letter to Jack Hyles:
“As I am sure you are well aware, my husband and I are moving to the Los Angeles area this month. The culmination of many events in our lives brought us to the decision that we have made to move. By this letter I wish to express my thoughts on the role you have played in these events over the past fifteen-plus years.
“I remember hearing once that it is not wise to put anything in writing that one would not want the entire world to see. (You know well the horrifying effects doing so can cause, don’t you?) That thought prompted me to write you on my leaving, for it would be the pleasure of my life to have the entire world see in print my feelings on you, your establishment and your gross perversion of the sacred role of Pastor.
“For over fifteen years I have watched and learned much from the circus that you have performed with the lives of those I love most in the world. With your own insecurities and personal failures as your driving force, you have quite simply played havoc with an entire church, some of my dearest friends and worst of all, my family. The saddest realization is that it has all been under the guise of Christianity. How I emerged from such a pit of secret sin, manipulation, and hypocrisy with the slightest interest in my professed religion at all, I do not know.
“Actually, I have become quite a person with these many lessons of life under my belt and must admit that you were quite a teacher. You exemplify everything in this life that I do not want for myself, my marriage or my children. I thank God for giving me the sense to decide not to become one of the neurotic puppets you employ. That decision and my close friendship with your ex-daughter-in-law (you remember her, don’t you?) helped salvage what was left of my self-respect. In an incredibly short amount of time I have healed much and think I would surprise even you with the strength I have gained.
“Incidentally, Paula and I have volumes of stories to swap, and it is interesting to see just how similar they are. What was it that you used to say, ‘Little leopards have spots because big leopards have spots’? How true it is.
“Sadly, in your very heart of hearts you must be the most miserable, lonely person alive. You are a self-proclaimed giant, sensationalist, exhibitionist, and ‘big-time spender’ grasping for every expression of love, admiration and loyalty that you can get your filthy little hands on. Yet, you have failed with the most precious gifts God could have ever given you – your wife, your children, and now, your ministry.
“I pity you, _____ ________, for you will be experiencing the consequences of your actions for a very long time. You may have convinced your following in the past twenty years that ‘it did not happen if they did not see it,’ but God has seen every moment of those years, and my faith will not let [me] believe that He will let you go unpunished.
“With these thoughts expressed, I bathe myself of you and any influence you may have had on me in the past. With God’s help, I will make my life in California everything that He would have it be and, unlike you, will not fall.
“Sincerely,”
(Signed)
Quite frankly, if I ever received a letter like that – and it contained even 10% truth – I’d walk out of the ministry without ever looking back. I could not handle even the private knowledge that such a letter were even remotely true.
This letter, which the writer told the recipient “it would be the pleasure of my life to have the entire world to see in print,” explaining that he exemplified “everything in this life that I do not want for myself, my marriage or my children,” was signed by Judy Nischik Johnson. It was written on October 1, 1986, to “Mr. Hyles.” He is better known as Dr. Jack Hyles, pastor of the huge First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana, and Chancellor of Hyles-Anderson College. The Paula in the letter is Dr. Hyles’ former daughter-in-law. And we should probably note that Mrs. Johnson hand-delivered the letter to his office to make certain he received it, rather than trusting the United States postal service. She was that serious about it.
Others knew about this long before we did, since its roots go back at least to 1971, but the philosophy and practice of Fundamentalism has been to sweep things like this under the rug, to bury it in the back recesses of Fundamentalism’s closet . . . then lock the door and throw away the key. But this, dear reader, is neither right nor biblical.*
excerpted from: http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_chapter3.php
Don,
Great posting! Thanks for doing the research and sharing that with us! I have read that before but renewing it confirms the reality of the pain these men have and continue to cause.
Thank you!
~~~Heart
I agree the IFB norm is to sweep it under the rug. We had children in our local IFB church that were being molested by a Sunday school teacher. The teacher was the son of one of the deacons. The Pastor was made aware of the situation but never did anything. Finally one of the kids talked to their parents, the police were brought in and the whole thing exploded. Several kids were being molested but it only made a few minor news stations. The victims were basically run off by the rest of the church. No consuling no sympathy, nothing. This is one of the many reasons were are no longer associated with the IFB church. It has grown twisted and corrupt in its own “religion”.
The ministry is greater than any mere pew dweller. The M-O-g is the ministry and the ministry is the M-O-g.
And Christ is given as the reason it is necessary to cover up the sin of/in the ministry. Their christ is so small and weak that they must protect him… for their christ can do nothing without them. So frail, so fragile, so inept, so unlike the Creator God of the universe.
To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. -Proverbs 21:3
For your hands are stained with blood,
your fingers with guilt.
Your lips have spoken falsely,
and your tongue mutters wicked things.
No one calls for justice;
no one pleads a case with integrity.
They rely on empty arguments, they utter lies;
they conceive trouble and give birth to evil. Isaiah 59:3-4
“How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.” -Psalm 82:2-4
Judgment must begin in the house of the Lord.
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?* -1 Peter 4:17
*even those who stand in the pulpits pretending to be ministers of the gospel while they coverup sin, and practice injustice.
May God have mercy on us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdtxM0rD86I
It appears the video has been reposted.
I apologize for coming to this blog. For posting on this blog. And for even reading it. I became curious and then compromised myself. I have been bothered for a couple of days by the incredible filth so openly discussed in this place. And ashamed tat I participated.
There are two quick passages that convinced me. And both teach clearly that no one, from any side (including myself,) can read or post on this blog (or any like it) and possibly be right with God.
I apologize sincerely. I felt bad and said good bye. It’s only right to drop by one last time and apologize. Yu may ridicule me if you wish, but I suggest you not wast your time as I will never see it. So long.
For it is a shame to even to speak of those things which are done of th me in secret.
Ephesians 5:12
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Philippians 4:8
Edward, you’ve made a pathetic attempt to justify denial. You can’t face the reality of sin in your leaders. I wonder if you’ve faced the reality of sin in yourself.
Edward, I wholeheartedly agree, and feel the same way as you. I have never gone on any of these blog sites, but was curious as well. My original purpose was to correct the lies that were spoken by Linda Murphrey. Upon doing that I came to the conclusion that they don’t want to know the truth, they only want to spread the lies that they want to be true. It is a sin, and I too think it wrong to spread such wrongdoings, whether or not they be true. I tried over & over to convey this sentiment, but to no avail. There are a lot of angry Christians out there & my thoughts still go out to us banding together to fight against the Devil instead of against each other. Thanks again for your convicting words & scripture. You are a much stronger Christian than I am, or I would have gotten off here long ago. Sorry!
Sydney, that is where you are wrong. Linda is not spreading lies and you have not been able to prove she that she is lying. We are not spreading lies! We are spreading the truth. I pray for you that one day SOON God will open your eyes and that you will see how brainwashed you are. I implore you, I beg you to get out of the IFB cult that you are in and get into a Godly church! I just read about a child that was adopted by an IFB pastor and his wife as a small baby and they are in jail now for raping and horrifically abusing this child her whole life. I wish you could read the story and then just maybe your eyes will finally open!!! This abuse has been going on for years by mainly IFB pastors. May God have mercy on your soul.
Here is just one article of the brutal reality of joe and evangeline coombs. I refuse to capitalize their proper names! I took his class at HAC, Old Testament Survey and he was merciless to the guys in class that were falling asleep. He would humiliate them and make them stand up at the back of the class. These guys were working jobs, taking full loads of classes and working all weekend long in the bus ministry. He showed no compassion, no empathy and no Christ-like endearments!
This article reveals his true ugly nature and yet spares you the details that his deposition clearly states, if you dare to read the truth about the perversions of many men who have followed and found license in this deceitful cult!
People, stand firm against these predators! They can not continue to hurt people and abuse them! Don’t let people like Edward and Sydney talk you into being quiet! This is what they have been taught! So they hold strong and twist and manipulate the scriptures into ways that urge you to not gossip or talk of those things which are done on secret! Hog wash!
If there was a smoldering fire, we alert our loved ones! If a pedophile moves into town, they must register, if the bridge is out ahead, signs are posted, if we are dying and destined to an eternal hell, the Gospel is shared!
Where there is evil, we have a duty to fight against it! Don’t ever believe that we should stand back and do nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A non-Christian with standards that one may deem as mediocre would stand firm on this issue! In fact, I would venture to say that the coldest of criminals would object to behaviors such as these!
These behaviors are immoral and against human decency! So stop acting like you are supporting God’s way to live properly! No! You are wrong to not judge and wrong to not speak and wrong to stay in those churches because you enable more of the same behavior and condone it by your support both in attendance and tithes!
Read the article!!!! Put yourself in Esther’s role as the child who knew nothing but abuse growing up! And after all the abuse, try and think about how she lives her life today on a daily basis with not only mental scars but more physical scars than many of her doctors and examiners have ever set their eyes on one human, a child non-the-less!!!
Sydney, in particular, you have really pushed the limit here with your empty words and use of the holy scriptures. I must say it, though harsh it may seem, but I truly doubt that you have a genuine knowledge of the greatness of God and His love and discernment.
I too, along with most contributors to these discussions here, agree that you are so completely brainwashed that it is not within your grasp to see the truth at this point and once again I wish you well and hope that these many words that have been shared with you Sydney, will one day be an epiphany to you!
Stay strong people and stand up for that which is right and wholesome and if we must alert by the ringing of bells, hollering in the town square, and any form of alerts of dangers ahead then so be it because if we can save a child, a soul, then “… Well done my good and faithful servant!…”
God wants you earnest and faithful with discernment!!!!!!!!!!!
~~~Heart
Here is just one article of the brutal reality of joe and evangeline coombs. I refuse to capitalize their proper names! I took his class at HAC, Old Testament Survey and he was merciless to the guys in class that were falling asleep. He would humiliate them and make them stand up at the back of the class. These guys were working jobs, taking full loads of classes and working all weekend long in the bus ministry. He showed no compassion, no empathy and no Christ-like endearments!
This article reveals his true ugly nature and yet spares you the details that his deposition clearly states, if you dare to read the truth about the perversions of many men who have followed and found license in this deceitful cult!
People, stand firm against these predators! They can not continue to hurt people and abuse them! Don’t let people like Edward and Sydney talk you into being quiet! This is what they have been taught! So they hold strong and twist and manipulate the scriptures into ways that urge you to not gossip or talk of those things which are done on secret! Hog wash!
If there was a smoldering fire, we alert our loved ones! If a pedophile moves into town, they must register, if the bridge is out ahead, signs are posted, if we are dying and destined to an eternal hell, the Gospel is shared!
Where there is evil, we have a duty to fight against it! Don’t ever believe that we should stand back and do nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A non-Christian with standards that one may deem as mediocre would stand firm on this issue! In fact, I would venture to say that the coldest of criminals would object to behaviors such as these!
These behaviors are immoral and against human decency! So stop acting like you are supporting God’s way to live properly! No! You are wrong to not judge and wrong to not speak and wrong to stay in those churches because you enable more of the same behavior and condone it by your support both in attendance and tithes!
Read the article!!!! Put yourself in Esther’s role as the child who knew nothing but abuse growing up! And after all the abuse, try and think about how she lives her life today on a daily basis with not only mental scars but more physical scars than many of her doctors and examiners have ever set their eyes on one human, a child non-the-less!!!
Sydney, in particular, you have really pushed the limit here with your empty words and use of the holy scriptures. I must say it, though harsh it may seem, but I truly doubt that you have a genuine knowledge of the greatness of God and His love and discernment.
I too, along with most contributors to these discussions here, agree that you are so completely brainwashed that it is not within your grasp to see the truth at this point and once again I wish you well and hope that these many words that have been shared with you Sydney, will one day be an epiphany to you!
Stay strong people and stand up for that which is right and wholesome and if we must alert by the ringing of bells, hollering in the town square, and any form of alerts of dangers ahead then so be it because if we can save a child, a soul, then “… Well done my good and faithful servant!…”
God wants you earnest and faithful with discernment!!!!!!!!!!!
~~~Heart
What a joke! I never said to excuse or cover up sin. However, God has said it is HIS duty, not ours to judge sin. Heart, you seem to think it your job to punish those who have already been punished and are still being punished for their sins. Joe & Evangeline Combs are prime examples. They are serving numerous life sentences in prison for their sins, and yet you think that’s not enough punishment? I pity your children, providing you have any, if they ever dare to do anything against you. When will your punishment on them ever stop!!!!
This entire post is just a way of venting your hatred & anger against fundamentalists. You don’t care what God says in the Bible. You don’t care that the government is already doing their job to punish the wrong that has been done. All you care about is spreading the bad others may or may not have done.
We all will have to answer for our actions when we stand before God at the Judgement Seat of Christ, where God rewards Christians according to their works for Him; or hopefully not, the Great White Throne Judgement where God judges the unsaved and casts them into the lake of fire called hell. Beware though, God will not judge as harshly those who have already been judged by others! If you doubt me, just look it up in your Bible, providing you have one.
Heart, I had to laugh when I read an earlier post from “pastor’s wife” who went on about your gracious spirit. Obviously, she has not read the comments you directed at me or Edward. What a joke you are! I guess that’s one of the satirical comments!
Sydney,
Thank God for the justice system that is punishing joe and evangeline coombs on an on-going basis; a reminder of their heinous and horrific evil crimes/sins against the innocent child.
*
As far as your faux expression of pity for my children, well, your gesture only exposes your weakness in yielding to the temptation of attacking me by daring to involve my own innocent children whom I love and that are dear to me. Shame on you!
*
Accusing me of hatred, I remind you that I have often quoted, “…love the sinner but hate the sin…” However, I do have righteous indignation on the acts of preachers who are pedophiles, yes.
*
Your reference to God’s judgment, I do not refute, but your use in throwing the variations in my direction is of a carnal nature, in which you once again use the Bible to convey a haughty spirit.
*
Implying that you have doubt that I own a Bible is also of the flesh and says much for your need to be vindictive and vengeful.
*
Your opinion of Pastor’s Wife’s comment is rightfully your own but I give no value to your own “satire” nor to any more of your worthless interjections that are intermingled within inappropriate and arrogant uses of the Scriptures. Why?…
…Because, while I will always use my efforts, experiences and energies to help others understand God’s purpose and I will encourage fellow Christians to seek out God and His plan for their lives and my own, by using God’s Word, prayer, good Biblical taught doctrine and good fellowship, I will not continue to debate with you and be guilty of misuse of my valuable time. It is a moot point with you.
You have continued to digress from the issue that is on the table to being vindictive, resorting to name-calling, and projecting malicious assumptions that many label adolescent and unrelated to the topic at hand. Futile!
You have your IFB movement that purports to be a wholesome Godly arena, but I will never ever again, be part of that façade nor wish that on anyone else!
I do not wish you any blessing upon your endeavors because I do not want your cult to ever hurt another child of God, however…
I do wish you well-being though, because you are a child of God and need to be loved, guided and shown the light.
“In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”
If we were in each other’s presence, I would sit with you, spend time with you, embrace you and try to explain to you my endeavors in revealing the catalysts for these on-going abuses. They cannot continue but will, as it has been proven throughout these numerous years, unless we do something about it, which is speaking up and putting into actions proper guidelines in order to stop these horrible reoccurrences against the innocent!
I am not mad at you. I do not wish for discontent or anger. We are not to let the sun go down upon our wrath, that will just be another catalyst for dismay and discord both with fellow Christians and God.
We, and I assume that I do speak for a few here, would just whole-heartedly like for you to see what we see, but that must take place for you in due time, or possibly, it may never. You are who you are and as we each are accountable for ourselves, well, it is what it is.
I leave you with the “B Attitudes” in which you can find enlightenment, comfort, confidence, condolence, challenge and an array of promises as spoken from the mouth of Christ.
~~~Heart
Heart, I find it quite humorous that you think I am digressing from the topic of this blog: “Linda Hyles Murphrey,” when you yourself went on and on in explicit details on the case of Joe & Evangeline Combs. That in no way has anything whatsoever to do with Linda Murphrey’s speech. The meer recollection of the details of that situation turns my stomach! I knew the Combs’; I said I knew them, not that I liked them. I was thoroughly disgusted when I heard what they had done. I don’t care to relive that ever again! But for you to give any inkling of responsibility for that to the members of First Baptist Church or any church is ever so far removed from the truth. Never was anything like that ever taught, promoted, encouraged, or overlooked in any case, at any church I have ever attended. If you were to have opened your heart & mind you would know that, but you are so clouded with hatred that you dream up these imaginations that are so off the wall that it makes one take pause to wonder where you are living???
You accuse me of deviating from the original topic, well, perhaps you should get back on track as well. Go back to the beginning of this blog & read each and every comment posted by you and you will see just how far off the point you have gone.
If you are offended by the use of the Bible verses, then you will have to take that up with God. He wrote the Bible. If you choose not to believe it, that is not my problem, but yours.
http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_chapter8.php
Excuse the technical difficulties, please. Thank you!
~~~Heart
Heart, I read the court transcript of what joe and evangeline combs did to this precious child of God Esther and it literally made me sick to my stomach. I cried, I got angry and I was mortified. That sick IFB preacher made his adopted daughter do filthy things to him and then he wouldn’t let her wash her mouth out after he ejaculated in her mouth. This was many times he did this to this girl. I cannot possibly imagine how she was able to live through all that they did to her. evangeline beating her with a baseball bat and taking pliers and twisting her skin until it tore. How sick can they be. They don’t deserve jail, they should be put in a room and every single thing they did to that child should be done to then DAILY just like it was done to her DAILY! This child was beat daily and sometimes raped. And sydney and edward still wanting to be part of an IFB cult is beyond me. As far as I’m concerned I don’t EVER want to be a part of anything to do with an IFB pastor. They are some sick sick SICK people.
Robin,
Yes, it is one of the saddest stories that was brought to light and exposed and that which was done in secret was brought out for judgement, accountability, and due process! As far as the sentencing for these two IFB Monsters, well, as none of us would wish harm to anyone… We know that God, in His perfect judgement will reign down on joe and evangeline in a manner in which He will punish and purge this evil.
It’s beyond me to possibly imagine that people who do these evil deeds on an on-going basis could honestly have Christ in their hearts, but if they do, somehow, then all the more the judgement of their Father will chasten this bad seeds. The wrath of God is uncompromising.
If, and most likely, these monsters never really truly knew Christ, then we know, by God’s Supreme Justice that an eternal place of damnation far from goodness, a place where evil resides, devours, consumes, and is relentlessly eternal will indeed be their sentences.
A very sad observation is that these two monsters were the only parents that Esther knew and after all those years and in videos on a couple accounts, after sentencing, this child still addressed joe and evangeline and asked them to please explain as to why they didn’t love her, that she just wanted them to love her!
My heart goes out to Esther and as she progresses in her new life, I continue to hope and pray that she will learn to recondition all that old conditioning and free herself from all the oppression! Just think, we, previous Fundamentalists under that regime, battle now to shrug those preached philosophies and ways in which to stringently live for the church, but how much more the task that is set before Esther having been abused in all aspects, physically, mentally, spiritually, and humanly! Remember her in your prayers!
Look to a person near you! They have been awesomely and wonderfully made! Love them, guide them, encourage them, tell them you love them and they are special but if that individual becomes toxic and gives place to evil then you cannot be silent on those accounts either! This is where a true Christ-like spirit will prevail and do the right thing!
Robin, you have a tender heart and you view things clearly! I’d hire you in an instant! Keep thriving to stay on track and like someone said…. “Follow the right path, but when that path is unclear, use your proper discretion to create a path and in turn, you will help others stay on course!”
Like Stephen pointed out…”and have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them!”…Eph. 5:11……
KUDOS Robin!
~~~Heart
Heart, Thank you! You are so sweet! I just cannot possibly comprehend why Edward and Sydney don’t see these people for what they are. It hurts my heart to know that someone can be brainwashed so easily. I see it in the church I went too and left because an IFB pastor took over. I just have a hard time understanding why??!! But I am SO thanful to God that He allowed me to see and get out of there! 🙂
Robin,
I’m so glad that you are out of there too Hun! If you take notice, in Linda Murphrey’s video, she takes time to address that very issue and that how she could not understand how her siblings never came to the point of questioning and using their own thought processes in order to come to the same inquiries that she did.
Along my life’s path, I had often wondered the same thing and often came to the conclusion that some people would rather follow. It is evident in research. It is evident in the numerous cults throughout history!
So we must hope against hope. We could sit back and just let others falter to their own demise, but such is not the way of a Christian now, it is, no. Nor is it the way of human decency!
So, girl, as you try to live in happiness according to God’s guidelines, do your best to be the beckon when darkness falls and there are people searching for the light! Help guide them to the Truth. The Lord will bless you as you, in turn, will find blessings in having a spirit that is filled with concern, righteousness, and an awareness of the evils that lurk, even amongst us in sheep’s clothing!
Romans chapters 12 & 13!
Celebrate the goodness in your life Robin! In fact, let’s rejoice in this day and be ever grateful for His goodness!
Someone stopped by today and brought me some avocados! I love avocados! What a treat! I’m smiling and I’m sharing… want some! lol
Hugs OOO
~~~Heart
Sydney, Sydney, Sydney!!! You are wasting so much precious time on here when you could be worshipping your cult man. Now go away because you are losing this battle. We certainly cannot open your eyes, only God can and at this point you are constantly making a fool of yourself by constantly accusing us of having hatred and anger and bitterness when we have told you OVER and OVER that we do not hate not are we bitter and you are either so ignorant that you don’t comprehend what we say or you don’t care. If you are the Christian YOU say you are then stop the name calling and act like one because if this is the way a Christian acts then I’m not sure I want to be one. Now stop wasting time and go worship your cult man before he finds out what your doing on here
Robin, Robin, Robin, if you feel I’m wasting time, then why do you keep reading & replying??? I guess that’s just more of the satire I’m told is supposed to be on this site.
You say I’m not winning this “battle” as you call it, but if I’m losing, then why do you want me to go away??? Funny, that anyone who disputes your ideals is just told to “go away.” Just because there are more of you on this site that have gripes about FBC doesn’t mean you are right. I have said over & over, again & again that I am not supporting anyone doing wrong, whether it be Jack Schaap, Jack Hyles or Linda Murphrey! What part of that do you not understand? I guess it means your eyes are closed when you read these comments.
You say that you are not bitter and do not hate, but that’s exactly the way you treat those like me who have anything to say that doesn’t go right along the lines with the brainwashing you are pushing. You seem to think that only you have anything to say that should be heard. You say I should open my eyes to what you have to say, well, isn’t that an oxymoron? You don’t open your eyes to what I have said that refutes the lies that Linda Murphrey told in her speech and all you want me to do is “go away!” That’s just like all you people. If you can’t get someone to agree with you, you just want them to shut up! Truth isn’t like that. Truth will always win out, whether you want to accept the truth or not.
By the way, Robin, I will go worship the Man (God) known as Jesus Christ. I don’t worship any human man or woman.
Ummm Sydney the cultwoman…My eyes are opened!Unlike you, God opened my eyes the minute my church brought in a IFB preacher so really all I can get out of what your saying is blah blah blah blah blah…we laugh at you and we pity you 🙄
Robin, you are so far off the mark it’s not even funny (satirical or otherwise). FYI, I don’t even attend a fundamental baptist church. Not that that’s any of your business, but you say you want me to stop the name-calling, and as soon as you are backed to the wall, you resort to calling me names. Whatever!!!!!
It’s such a shame that anyone who stands up for a church, of any denomination, that has had such a tragedy, is treated in such a way. Your people say you are standing up for those who can’t help themselves, but all you want is to destroy FBC & its members. Some of those members have been in that church since before Bro. Hyles came in 1959. They didn’t have anything to do with the sins that have been committed by certain leaders in that church, yet you don’t want to stand up for them. You are trying to destroy their church for the sins of the few.
If you don’t want to attend a church with the strict standards that a fundamental church tries to uphold (none of which is a requirement for membership or salvation), that is fine. But, for you to hold yourself up as the hammer of destruction against the good, godly people who attend those churches just goes to show how much hatred you have in your heart!
You have the right to believe whatever you want. That’s why God gave us each a free will. You do not have the right to treat people who don’t agree with you as though they are Satan’s spawn! You and you alone will be answering to God Almighty for the hateful & bitter things you are saying and feeling against those people.
If you don’t want to be a Christian, that’s also your right. God never forces salvation on anyone.
God will live forever. Jesus Christ will live forever. The Bible will live forever. There is nothing you or anyone can do to change that.
If you choose not to believe in God, or the Bible, no one can make you. It’s a simple act of faith, and if you don’t have that faith, you will have to live (or die) with the consequences.
However, don’t pretend like you care so much for those who have been hurt by the few. Your sole purpose is to try and persuade people to leave their church because you don’t like it. You have the right to attend any church of your choosing–or not attend any church at all. That is your right. It is also the right of each and every one of the people who attends a fundamental baptist church, to attend that church, whether or not you like it or agree with it.
Sydney wrote, “…but all you want is to destroy FBC & its members. Some of those members have been in that church since before Bro. Hyles came in 1959. They didn’t have anything to do with the sins that have been committed by certain leaders in that church…”
Those long term members deserve all the grief they get…every last bit of it.
They did NOTHING when Schaap spewed horrible heresies from the pulpit – even likening taking communion with having sexual intercourse with God!!
They did NOTHING when Schaap masturbated an arrow infront of thousands of youth!
They did NOTHING when it became commonplace for their leadership to yell at staff and drop F-bombs and use other vile language.
They did NOTHING when Hyles limited the number of blacks that were allowed on their buses.
These long term members turned a blind eye to all manner of wickedness because they chose to see FBCH as some Fundy Utopia, and their precious pastors as demigods.
They need repentance more than sympathy.
Used-to-be-Fundy!! Sydney probably has that video of Schaap downloaded and watches it over and over because she loves watching him masterbate that arrow. She must also like the fact that when she does the Lords Supper that she is having sex with Jesus. They are some sick followers as well and too stupid to see it. So we should quit trying to get them out of that church because they like what they are hearing or they wouldn’t stay and hear the sicko’s up there preaching. I love how she defends the congregation and then says she doesn’t go to an IFB church…well they do lie so I know she certainly is doing that, they are good at that. All she can say is we hate. I have told her over and over I don’t hate anyone. She needs to come up with something better than that. All they can think of is call us BITTER and HATERS etc. It’s what they are taught to say, they know nothing else to say. All I see is blah blah blah when she gets on here babbling. 🙄
Robin, is that all you’ve got???
No, you don’t “hate.” Maybe you should go back & read the comment you just posted. There is nothing but a tone of hate throughout it.
I don’t have to defend myself to you. You even admit that you may not even be a Christian, so why do you think you should have any justification of my life???
What a joke!
I also am not a Catholic, but I would defend another Catholic’s right to attend whatever church they choose. That’s more than you “anti-fundamentalists” are doing. You don’t want to defend anything except your own shallow point of view. Go right ahead, but you are the ones who are brainwashed (by the Devil) and closed minded to the truth. By the way, did you know that this country was founded on freedom of religion???
I have no idea what you are talking about “that video of Schaap downloaded and watches it over and over because she loves watching him masterbate that arrow. She must also like the fact that when she does the Lords Supper that she is having sex with Jesus.”
I haven’t attended that church since less than a year after Jack Schaap became pastor. He never said anything like that when I was there. If he did say those things, I never heard any of it. So funny that you claim not to be a fundamentalist, and yet, you know more of the sermons he has preached than actual fundamentalists!
But, no, you’re not spreading HATE!!!!! You just go around loving everyone…LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE….
And there you go again with the namecalling. What a joke you are!
If you watch the entire sermon where jack simulates an organism with an arrow, a few minutes later, he breaks a couple of those arrows and tosses them behind him. Those arrows represent a “polished” Christian (himself included, of course) and he says that this is what God may do to some some “polished” Christian.
OH, THE IRONY. God literally used this sermon to expose him as the hypocrite that he is (as pope Hyles was)
Daniel Duma and others here that are reading…
If you take notice in the video that Daniel is referring to, found very easily on YouTube, the director of the cameraman who is orchestrating the vantage point of jack schaap’s sermon cannot keep the center viewing straight forward camera cued on jack schaap, even though it is attempted, but rather, re-directs the side viewing camera to transmit.
Personally, I believe that this was done because the gestures of jack schaap, from the straight view just too shockingly paralleled gestures of self-gratification. You be the judge.
Who would ever think that we would even be discussing such comparisons of these things about a preacher standing behind a pulpit. What a shame!
This needs to STOP!
~~~Heart
Sydney, Oh no, I have more, your just not worth my time anymore. You are such a HUGE Hypocrite! Your post is so full of anger. I got your feathers all ruffled huh?? Lol…I never once hinted nor said I was not a Christian! I love how you ASSume something. I am saved by the blodd of the Lamb. Are you??? Ummm I highly doubt it! You are nothing but full of lies and a hypoctite and I could care less what you think of me because I don’t have to answer to you, I answer only to God! You answer to Man who thinks he is God! Your brainwashed and people like you deserve whats coming to you because you won’t listen! I don’t believe for one minute that you never went while Schaap was there and I bet you still go there or you wouldn’t be on here spewing untruths and hatred to those of us who refuse to worhip these IFB pastors and allow them to brainwash us. May God have Mercy on your soul!
Robin, If you didn’t care what I thought of you, you would stop trying so hard to convince me that you know what you’re talking about. You say you’re a Christian, but then you think you can know if another person is one too. No one can know another’s heart. Your actions do speak volumes though about the level of your Christianity.
You call me names, and assume I am lying, when you have no idea that I live over a thousand miles away from Hammond. Like so many times, you didn’t even read that I was there less than a year after Jack Schaap became pastor. Once again, I don’t have to qualify myself to you, but for you to blatantly criticize someone is not only careless on your part, but shows your hatred all the more!
Just keep on calling names, spreading the hatred & bitterness–but no, you don’t hate…you just love everyone! Sure!
Good grief Sydney!!! Go and read the name calling your doing…oops I forgot, your an IFB so it’s ok for you to do that. Your the one who came to this site to start trouble with all of us and call us liars and haters because we don’t agree with you. If you notice I am not the only one who is tired of your pathetic rants. Now when you find you have finally lost you can move onto the next site and try to unsuccessfully bother someone else. Linda Murphrey IS telling the truth and these IFB pastors are sickos and the IFB followers like you ARE brainwashed whether you like it or believe it or not and YOU my dear will NOT change our minds. You are a fly on this wall 🙄
Robin — Actually, I came on this site simply to comment on the false statements made by Linda Murphrey in her speech. I had no intention of making trouble with anyone. I mistakenly thought those on this site actually cared about the truth, but soon found that they are just interested in using the lies and dirt to further their hatred against a group of people who don’t even know they exist!
You are making quite a spectacle of yourself in trying so hard to get me to stop commenting. I guess that just goes to show that you only want to boost your own ego by having everyone agree with you and your wickedness. Yes, I said wickedness, for that is all it is when you spend so much time trying to tear down other Christians. If you sincerely cared about helping people, you would be more interested in stopping the gossip than spreading it!
My mother warned me not to hang around people like you. You will find fault in anything you don’t agree with instead of finding the good in people. For that you will be held accountable to God Himself.
Funny, just how many people, who are so hard hearted against a church that has done so much to help people, keep throwing the “brainwashing” word around. That coin has two sides. You are just as brainwashed, or more so, in your beliefs. The difference is that fundamentalists don’t go around digging up every speck of dirt they can find to spread about your kind of people just to tear down any good you might be doing for God. So, when it comes to brainwashing, it’s rather obvious that fundamentalists don’t hold the patent!
Sin will be punished, but it’s up to God to do the punishing. Spreading the dirt around does no good to anyone.
This isn’t about gossip, this is about exposing the IFB church for what it is. A cult that has a propensity to allow abuse within itself and get away with it due to the brainwashing of it’s members.
You might not think it should be about gossip, but that’s what this site has turned to.
Sydney, we are NOT gossipping! Gossippin is spreading false lies!!! We aren’t lying, we are telling the truth! If we weren’t telling the truth then these sicko’s would not be in jail or about to be in jail!!! 🙄
Robin, look it up. Gossip is not just spreading lies. It’s the spreading of truth or rumors.
Sydney, blah blah blah blah blah 🙄
Robin, you have to be one of the most obnoxiously rude people on this site.
But, I have to say, this is the most intelligent things you have said on any of your posts!
Sydney, (cultwoman) You have got to be the biggest hypocrite on this site because you say we are the only ones name calling. This is the most unintelligent thing you have said on any of YOUR posts 🙄
Sydney, Oh WAIT!!! I forgot! EVERYTHING you say on here is unintelligent or just plain ignorant! My bad!
My dad is tougher than your dad 😀
Daniel Duma, And don’t forget how Schaap says that when your taking the Lords supper that you are having Spiritual intercourse with Jesus! Now how sick is that???!!! And yet theses brainwashed followers sit and listen to his preaching. I cannot believe that people get on here and argue with us about Linda Murphrey telling the truth and exposing these people and yet they sit and listen to these IFB pastors sick preaching and lies! SMH 🙄
Sydney, (1) Prove Linda is lying! You say she is, then prove it. (2) I am hardhearted against a church that has helped so many people??…oh you mean helped to show people how to have a polished shaft? How to have spiritual intercourse with Jesus when I take the Lords supper? How to be a pediphile and rape young people? Oh and how to learn to commit adultry? I guess your right they do learn how to help people, only they help people to become evil is all they have helped them do. Sorry I should be more understanding to the sick IFB’s. Please forgive me for NOT understanding how they HELP people to learn how to be sick pedophiles. (insert sarcasm here) The difference between you and I is that I have my eyes on God and you people have your eyes on man. I do go to church!! A wonderful SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCH with a Godly loving pastor and Godly loving people. And I’m not trying to keep you from commenting at all…please continue to comment and further make a jackass out of yourself, it doesn’t bother me. I laugh everytime I see you post. In fact I can’t wait to see the next one so I can have another good laugh. When I have 5 pastors tell me to get out of my church when an IFB pastor took over, then I know I better get out! These are Godly pastors that are not pedophiles!!! These IfB pastors are all over the internet and all over the news…If I were you, again I would be too embarassed to admit I was an IFB follower. I haven’t seen anything about my pastor or previous pastors on the news or all over facebook. It’s EVERYWHERE! EVERYONE CAN’T BE WRONG!! They aren’t going to jail for nothing!! 🙄
Robin – My brother has attended a good Southern Baptist Church for many years, but he has a much cleaner mouth than you do. The language you use shows everyone your spiritual condition. You can say you have your eyes on God, but your heart is on man. After all, the Bible says, “From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh.” Luke 6:45
Before being so critical of me, take a good long look at yourself. My eyes are not, nor have they ever been on a man. I trust only in God. Just because I am standing up for the innocents does not mean I support the guilty. For some reason, that just really bothers you.
I am not supportive of the wickedness you so freely point out. But, I do not throw out the baby with the bath water, either! No doubt, there are many people, who have attended FBCH & other IFBCs and have gone astray. I, myself, know of several who have either been in, or are still in prison. But, since divorce, incest, pedophilia, abuse, and perversion of all types is not limited to fundamental baptist churches, perhaps you should turn your eyes off man and onto God for help. You say you look only to God, but your comments say otherwise.
Life is full of both good and bad. I have never been one to search out the bad. If I hear of bad things done, by anyone, I don’t go about spreading the news to everyone within earshod! You seem to think that if a person stands up for right, they are supporting the wrong that has been done. That is just another way of spreading the bad.
Get over yourself. If you don’t like IFB, then don’t attend their churches, but by you saying that all IFBCs or all members of IFBCs are just as guilty as those who have sinned shows your hatred, once again, and the ungodly and unspiritual condition of your heart!
I don’t stand up in support of the sins, but I do stand up for the good, godly people who attend churches (of any denomination) to fellowship with other good, godly Christians.
If you like your church so much, then why spend so much time in research to find all the dirt you can against IFB & criticizing other churches for anything any member or leader has ever done wrong? You would be better off spending that time serving God by supporting your own church. Oh, I forgot that church is also led by a man.
Sydney, Jackass is not bad language…Oops forgot again…it is when it involves an IFB! You are a hypocrite and keep degrading me but I am supposed to keep quiet and bow to you and believe your lies and you spew hate at me because I do not believe you. YOU say YOU look to God but sweetheart YOUR comments say otherwise. You try to make everyone think your Godly but then your hatred to those who do not agree with YOU speak otherwise. You will not change my mind so stop trying. God knows my heart yet you keep rambling like you know it. You think you know so much about the bible and yet you know nothing. Google is great isn’t it?! I could give you a few verses but your clouded mind would not see it. AGAIN and one more time! You will not change our minds!!!! You are the only one left here that just keeps coming back for more and making a jackass out of yourself continueously! You say my heart is UnGodly??? Wow I didn’t know IFB’s know our hearts too….You make me laugh and make me sick at the same time with your ramblings. 🙄
Robin — WOW I must have really struck a nerve! You are so funny! You think you are so strong in sticking up for the mistreated, but you just get mad & defensive when anyone dare to call it like it is!
Sydney, why on earth would YOU think you struck a nerve? I told you I laugh everytime you post your ramblings….what part of that do you not understand cultwoman??? I mean seriously are you that ignorant that you think I’m mad?? lol..you make me laugh so hard. I have no reason to be mad. You have all these people against you and yet you come back here for more. It’s so hilarious!!!
I guess you failed in your purpose then.
While Jesus Christ was living on earth, there was no “peace on earth” and He “never faileth.” I am only human and some people have such hard hearts that they cannot be changed.
Judges 17:6 “…every man did that which was right in his own eyes.”
Proverbs 14:12 “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”
And, I didn’t know this was a contest. I guess it just proves the fact that you really don’t want to know the truth, you just want to spread your heresy.
The only ones losing in all this are those being turned away from Jesus Christ through all the bickering amongst Christians, or so-called Christians that is.
It is a poor god indeed whose will is thwarted by the actions of mere mortals.
-love the passive aggressive or so-called Christians that is. Cute…
Here on SFL we have been warning with a strong cry, take your eyes off of men who have led thousands captive with their man made traditions, their empire building, their false man-centered teaching. We have warned with a strong cry “Flee the Cult of the IFB!”
Sidney, your idol: Jack Hyles…is fallen.
And the only ones losing in this debate are the cult leaders, their false religion, their dictatorial empires and their bank accounts. They don’t like it when one of their own is exposed for who and what he really is. Worshippers of False gods are funny about things like that as well. Everyone else is wrong, everyone else is a liar, everyone else is going to hell…
Sydney, You say: The only ones losing in all this are those being turned away from Jesus Christ through all the bickering amongst Christians, or so-called Christians that is.
WOW! You sure are doing alot of arguing on here so I guess that makes you a So-called Christian 😉
That’s a fascinating interpretation of Scripture, Edward. Shall we get out the scissors and go to work on your KJB, removing the rape of Dinah, the irresponsibility of Onan, the incest of Amnon and Tamar, and of course the adultery of Bathsheba? Because, of course, those things were done in secret, and it would be a shame to speak of them! 🙄
Oh, and did I mention Judah consorting with a prostitute that turned out to be his daughter-in-law?? 😯
ummm……excuse me “the adultery of Bathsheba”????>
Excuse me, David and Bathsheba. . . 😳
Could have sworn that I typed both names last night. Hmmm. . . 😕
Stephen,
Spot-on powerful! KUDOS!
~~~Marlene
What’s actually more interesting is the context surrounding Edward’s citing of Ephesians 5:12.
Here’s Eph. 5:11: “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.”
Hmmm, okay, so we’re supposed to repove them. . .
Then there’s 5:12: “For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.”
And then 5:13,”But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.”
So clearly, it is NOT a shame to reprove those things which are done in secret, like Edward would have had us believe. 🙄 Further proof that a text without a context is a pretext. . .
Forgive the errors created by typing on the iPad. Sorry! Later
Your inability to rightly interpret Scripture comes from typing on an iPad? Now THAT is a new one!
Edward, you’re just embarrassed because you were shown to be a cult follower and you can’t stand it. Jack Hyles led a cult. You follow still. If you saw him on top or another woman, you still would not believe he was an adulterer. Good bye and good riddance.
Edward and Syndey need God! And the sad thing is I actually feel sorry for them both because they allowed themselves to be brainwashed. At my church that was taken over by an IFB the old ladies there acted like they were having an orgasm when the pastor walked in and said hi to them. It was hilarious watching them when he came in the door. I know that sounds kinda bad but it is what it is 😆 People still laugh at them and I’m told they still worship this person. Sadly enough ICHABOD (sp) has been written on the front doors of that church now.
It pretty bold to make a statement that “Edward and Syndey need God!”. We all need God. I am no fan of the IFB church. My family left the IFB church about two years ago and am so thankful I did. To say that someone needs God is a very bold statement that reflects the same judgmental spirit that we escaped from when we left the circus called the IFB church. 🙂 I’m sure God has a plan for Edward and Syndey and they will be used according to his will. I was a diehard IFB man for a lot of years before my eyes were opened. I have seen God work in so many peoples lives outside the IFB church and it has been a real blessing. Let hope and pray that the same can happen for Edward, Syndey and all IFB folks.
thartofglas, if you go back and read some of the BOLD things they were saying to me, you will see the reason I said what I did. I was being sarcastic. Sydney mentioned to me “that is if you go to church” or something of that nature. But I did mean it in a way because they cannot possibly have God if they are being led and brainwashed by man. God cannot lead them until they start following God 🙂
Incredible ad by the Catholic Church
When churches start running ads…. this election is going to get hot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd
Had a bout of insomnia, eh?
You would think, huh? Actually, no. I do most of my work at night because it’s cooler. I get more done and I jump online from time to time. Online work holds no timeclocks! That’s the best part about it. Kids are grown, so no more carpools! Most businesses don’t open til 9 or later, so I don’t have to get up at 6 any more. Oh, the joys of middle age!
Middle age means grown up kids? Crud, I must have done it wrong. Mine are all between 6 and 9,lol.
No, my middle age actually is “age.” It just happens that my kids are grown as well. Life sure changes when your kids become adults. Good luck with your 6 & 9 year olds. Those are wonderful ages. We had a lot of fun when my kids were going through those years.
One of the greatest days in my life was when my kids outgrew Little Tykes. Loved the toys, but they were so big & took up a lot of space. They sure did have fun with them though.
Any of you guys hear of an IFP preacher named Todd Phillips? Total nutjob in the Sioux Falls, SD area. Very similar style as the Westboro idiots.
BTW, if this video ever disappears from the site, you can email me, I saved a copy of it. So, sue me.
Bob,
Did anyone ever mention the reason as to why it was taken down after having been up for a good spell?
Just wondering! And sue you… never 😉
~~~Heart
It was taken down to be edited. They took out the woman who introduced Linda and added the new intro.
Ex-Fundy Youth Pastor,
Thanks for that tidbit. The edit was needed, the intro was lengthy and poorly articulated. I’m glad she has it back up and even though she really wishes to not re-live those issues, I do wish that she would give another speech concerning her process of overcoming the 28 years of the fundamental mindset and how she battled to learn to live a much happier life in His grace, blessed in and with His true goodness and understanding of living!
Are you aware of any other speeches from her or even others like her?
Just wondering 😉
Since jack schaap has fallen into this God-forsaken path that many have also succumbed to, and he has thusly, opened old wounds and brought forth to the forefronts of our awareness, the real and dark side of human nature, especially those in unquestionable authority and power, well, I have come across a “Keeper of Truth”, if you will!
“The Rollcall of Shame” is a growing list of so-called preachers who pledge loyalties to jack hyles and his way and interpretations. These men have been proven and found guilty of “sins” against children; abuses that have been sexual, inhumane, immoral and wickedly evil! These men’s cases’ timelines range back from when jack hyles was at the helm up through today with jack schaap. They also range from the nucleus, First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana on throughout the United States!
http://www.jeriwho.net/tloc.html
Jeri’s website gives dates, circumstances, personal self-accounts of children, some now grown, who had to endure this dispicable tyranny! It also, not only quotes the twisted words of jack hyles and many of his “preacher boys”, but it also lends your ear to the recording of their typical orations as delivered before their gathering of misguided and “blind faith” followers!
If you dare to test your belief system, just as you dare to check under the hood of your car for levels of oil, unfrayed belts, rust-free connections, charged batteries, charging spark plugs and the like, not to doubt your excellent vehicle, but to assure yourself that the very lives that you entrust this vehicle with are in deed going to be safe, well, how much the more must you take the steps to be sure that the very SYSTEM/CHURCH/PREACHER that encases the Gospel and represents God’s ultimate sacrifice, IS a system that is SAFE!!!!!!!???
We question not salvation and Christianity as a whole… But to be clear… The questions here, with Red Flags which are scattered, appropriately and despairingly so, are “Who do you allow to interpret God’s Holy Word from the pulpit that you place yourself before so willingly? Who guides, not only your spirituality but also your daily living? Who are these authoritative figures that have risen to a state of unquestionable authority with an arrogance often only backed by “honorary degrees”? Who are these men that have preached God’s unwavering truths, coupled with condemnation creating fear to obedience in the congregations, only to give way for themselves to manipulate their control for their own self- gratifications from monetary misuse on through to their own sexual misconduct, not only with peers, but more atrociously with innocent children!!!???
No… Don’t be guilty of giving your CAR more mindful thought and concern than the very SYSTEM/CHURCH/PREACHER put into place, by you, as a voting member, that is representative of GOD!!!!!
I implore you to not walk in faith through ignorance of the facts that are evident in this day and age where evil hides in order to deceive you and create havoc not only in the world but more importantly, in our own churches, by those individuals who claim to be Godly Christians! But walk in faith and His guidance, trusting in Him and His greatness but also remembering your title as His steward!
The path of least resistance is often the mundane, unrewarding and possibly erroneous!
Re-think!
Re-callibrate!
Re-align!
Re-focus! ………And ultimately…
Re-assure yourself and the choices that you are making as a Child of God and responsibly for the children!
~~~Heart
Sydney I would love to bring down the IFB church and all their cultlike judgmental ways. I was one of them, I was even a trustee when I resigned. There were getting to be too many issues with the IFB church that were either no able to be justified by scripture or just plain unscriptural period. Not just in my church but every single IFB church that I visited. Overall the children of it’s members were becoming screwed up, there were/are countless sexual crimes and coverups, infighting, disagreements and an overall country club mentality within the ranks of it’s members. This is a cult Sydney whether you want to believe it or not. Just try to disagree with them on something and see what happens. Oops I forgot, women don’t have a voice in the IFB church. Maybe it’s time they did. Perhaps this would eliminate some of the child abuse, molestation and rape that is occuring so commonly in the IFB church nowdays by the self proclaimed “men of God”!
If I were and IFB follower, the last place I would be is on here trying to convince people that being an IFB is good! How can it be good with all the arrests that have been made from these sick people raping and beating kids. They are nothing but pedophiles. I would be to embarassed to even get on here and speak knowing what kind of people they are. Talk about stupidity! That just proves how brainwashed they are to get on here and make a complete fool out of themselves by trying to argue with anyone about these sick pastors!! I’m to the point that I don’t even feel sorry for these kool-aid drinkers anymore 🙄
“Crucify Him! Crucify Him! Release Barabbas!”
Sydney, if I understand correctly you are a member of an IFB church and you are defending the IFB church’s doctrine is that correct? I have nothing against the doctrine of the IFB church, as a matter of fact I think it is pretty much in line with my core beliefs. Where I run into the problem is the with the liberty that these churches take to interpret some of the gray areas of scripture and use it to judge others and promote a certain type of control over peoples lives. This really opens people up to some potential false understanding of scripture based on the opinions and interpretations of a man that may or may not be truly guided by the Holy Spirit. One of the things that I never heard enough of when I was a fundie was that we are living under grace. There is more to life than sitting in a pew every time the doors are open and having some sinner tell you that you aren’t good enough and you really need to be doing more for Christ. The Lord only has one box on his checklist to enter his kingdom. Covered by the blood or not covered by the blood. I offer these views up for debate and welcome and friendly debate.
thartofglass — I appreciate the courteous way you posed this posting. No, I am not currently a member of any IFBC, but attend a Baptist church that preaches and teaches directly from the Bible. I was a member of FBCH for 25+ years until my husband got transferred and we were forced to move.
I agree totally that some people at FBCH, as well as other churches I have attended, interpret the Bible in ways that makes one take pause at which book they were actually reading.
My entire reason for commenting on this site was to correct some of the statements Linda Hyles Murphrey made in her speech that simply were not true. Several posters took such offence that they began attacking me. This site has gotten downright vicious.
No one really cares what the doctrine of FBCH is. They are more interested in digging up the dirt on anyone, even remotely associated with FBC or any of its ministries, that has sinned, and spreading, in detail, those sins. So many posters want to take the punishment of those sinners upon themselves, and I beleive we should leave it up to God. Also, I don’t agree that the entire congregation should be held accountable for one man’s sin. Any parent who has ever had a wayward child would agree that it isn’t necessarily the parents’ fault.
My experience at FBCH is one of mixed results. First, I learned more about how to live for God than at any other church I have ever attended. I attended church since I was in grade school, and was taught moral values since I was born (before there ever was a fundamental church). In every church I attended, I heard statements such as, “live for God,” “obey God,” “avoid sin,” etc. My problem was that no one actually told me HOW to live for God, obey God or avoid sin. It was at FBCH that I learned how to have a personal relationship with God, and how to learn how to live for God. I realize that these are just men, and as such make mistakes (I’m speaking of mistakes, not sins). I make it a daily practice for me to read my Bible & pray to God for wisdom & understanding. In doing such, that enables me to distinguish whether what is being preached and taught follows the Bible.
When Bro. Hyles was alive, he would use not only the Bible, but also songs from our hymnal, poems, and life experiences in his sermons. Many things said from the pulpit were using these tools to convey a message. He was a very good public speaker. I learned a lot under his preaching.
I also had teachers in college (HAC) from which I learned a lot, as well as some from which I learned little to nothing–that I can remember. I guess that goes with my immaturity at that time, plus the teacher’s ability, or inability, to teach.
One time, when I was in college, a college student/part-time staff man was asked to fill in as chapel speaker. When he spoke, I couldn’t understand “what in the world he was saying.” There were people crying & others spellbound. I thought maybe I was just tired, or out of it. Then, he made the statement, “It’s been 3 days since I’ve sinned.” That statement hit me like a bolt of lightning. I thought, “What????” I knew that was wrong. Well, needless to say, as of that day, he was no longer a part-time staff member or student (because he quit college & was fired). He was preaching “sinless perfection.” I believe God closed my ears to hearing whatever else he was saying, but opened them at the point I needed to hear. So, you can see, I don’t always believe something just because it is preached.
As for the devotion shown to many of the staff men there, I have a deep respect for some of them, little respect for others, and yet no respect for a few. I know that no institution will ever have all great workers, and FBCH and its ministries is no exception. I also want to point out that as soon as someone is found to be preaching or teaching, anything contrary to the Bible, or living in a sinful, unscriptural manner they are no longer allowed to stay on staff. (prime example: Jack Schaap).
I have a slightly different view of the preaching at FBCH (providing that is the IFB church you were referencing). I felt that “grace” was taught in abundance. Bro. Hyles taught for weeks on Wednesday nights about our sins being covered by God’s grace & God’s grace keeping us out of hell, and helping us get through the tough times in life, for just a few. I do, however, think that a lot of preachers/teachers stress living with high standards more than strong convictions. That didn’t bother me, but I knew the difference between convictions (something you would die for) and standards (a way you choose to live your life). Most people don’t like the standards taught & that’s what they oppose in fundamental churches.
It breaks my heart that the reputation of Christianity, in general, has been so damaged by the sins committed by certain leaders in various churches. That includes Baptist, Nazarene, Methodist, etc. churches. Any church that teaches and preaches salvation by faith, through grace, should hold to a higher standard, and when they don’t, they harm the cause of Christ. This even includes Catholic churches that teach salvation by works. They still represent Christianity.
Don’t get me wrong, Jesus Christ will live on forever, but the sins committed by Christians creates stumblingblocks which prevent some from getting saved.
I’m not sure if I’ve responded as you expected, but I have been as honest as I possibly could.
Once again, thank you for being so respectful in your posting.
Robin, I have come to that place too. My best friend, for years and years, was a kool-aide drinker, and I patiently stood by him when his wife finally left him and he became estranged from his children. I tried to reason with him, yet he held to the very rules and legalistic convictions that lost him his family. It wasn’t so much the rules, etc, but the mind-set that came from Hyles, etal. “I am always right, and don’t you women dare question me.” My heart broke as he descended further into the koolaide drinking morass. I finally stopped trying with him. Now I don’t feel sorry for them any more.
Bob, I’m so sorry about your friend. I too have a friend of over 30 years that when this IFB pastor took over our church this past year, she absolutely thinks he is wonderful! I have tried to tell her what they are but she wouldn’t listen. I can’t believe that she would believe someone she just met over her best friend and she knows that I check things out thoroughly and yet she is so far gone being brainwashed that she will not listen to me. We hardly speak and haven’t spoken at all in several months. I heard that he has her watching my Facebook to let him know if I say anything and it has also gotten back to me that she speaks badly of me and my family and I have not done a single thing to her to cause her to speak badly of me. Like you I have given up and once she sees the truth, that is if she ever does see the truth I will not be there for her because she has done to much damage to ever repair our relationship. I told my husband the other day that I am done with her and want nothing to do with her regardless now.
Robin,
I hope you’re doing great over there! You’ve been a trouper! I’m glad to have you standing up for that which is good and decent! Keep your focus and a good spirit! Don’t ever let anyone bring you down or doubt the truth that you know to be truth!
I hope that you continue to be happy in your church. I know what you mean about the way that fundamentalists can shun you if you do not meet their standards of dress or their other preferences, but don’t let it bother you. They just can’t see past “being associated with the sinful” and we know that unless you are following their way, then you are considered sinful. That’s their issue. Don’t let it effect your worship or your communion with God. I know it’s hard to feel that from a fellow Christian, but just let them be miserable or under their preacher’s condemnation. It is only within their means to free themselves from such “law” and graceless living.
I hope you’re enjoying your worshipping in your church and the fellowship of sincere hearts praising God for His goodness and reaching out to tell others of His goodness! I can just imagine your excitement!
Enjoy your wonderful September, Robin, and everyone else here! It’s been a journey right? We’ve debated, discussed, pointed out truths and lies and made headway in many areas! Let us hope that we all have learned something from all these exchange of words and honestly take them to heart!
It’s good to discuss, even get angry, and then settle back and think and pray and resolve!
Again, I wish you all the best of every possibility!
Smiles 🙂
~~~Heart 😉
Bob & Robin,
I too share in your pain of having loved ones that refuse to even give a listen to the state in which they find themselves and their every action completely absorbed by the leader of their chosen churches.
This type of mind control takes ahold and is relentless. These preachers claim that God supports their teachings and therefore to question them is questioning God and therefore wrong.
My rebuttal to that is simple. When Christ was on this earth, we read throughout His ministry that His disciples questioned Him. They did not do this out of disrespect but rather out of the need and desire to understand!
Understanding of issues, happenings, churches and any given facet in our lives must be questioned and processed continually!
Allow yourself that liberty and permit that also for others! The truth will prevail ultimately!
My heart aches, as do yours Bob & Robin, but as God gives us our daily breath of life, I continue to hope that one day these victims of Fundamentalists will one day be free to live as God intended, redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, being fruitful in good loving churches, surrounded with people pure in heart, humble and honest!
~~~Heart
Thank You Heart, You are so kind. I just pray that God will open their eyes and let them see what these kind of people are. I can’t imagine being brainwashed to the point that I would worship man and not God. But they do it and have no clue that they are. I went tonight to my previous church to vote to not let this cult man bring in Homeschool and my friend was there and she walked right by me and didn’t say a word. They are like walking Zombies in that place. It was so cold in there and I don’t mean temp cold. Ichabod is written across those doors. I have never felt so uncomfortable and I know God was not there at all. I just can’t understand why these IFB’ers don’t see that it is a sick sick cult. Then they come on here and spew hate and names and that we are unGodly because we disagree with them. I am to the point that I laugh at them now because it’s hilarious and I can’t wait to see what stupidness comes out of their mouth next. At least Edward had enough sense to know that it was a losing battle for him and that he didn’t have a chance in changing our minds. I have the full armour of God on and God is with me and I know that God will help me to stand my ground against these cult people. That is why I laugh at them because they don’t realize how dumb they sound saying the same thing over and over and over and over again 😆
I attended HAC. Here Linda Murphrey speaks here of being wrote off by her family when she left. I remember very well Bro Hyles speaking of his wife and all of his children. I beleive her to be way off base in her speech here. Therapists can make you believe things that happend that never really did happen. I worked in the mental health field for years and watch therapist after therapist convince people of things that never really happened. I do nto beleive Linda was the forgotten child of Jack Hyles.
You graduated from HAC and then worked in the mental health field? Exactly what did you do? What are your credentials?
Back in my Fundie days, I read most of Hyles’ books written after Linda left, and I don’t recall him using her as any kind of example as he did with Becky or Cindy. Depending on when you graduated, and when Linda left, when were you hearing Hyles speak about his kids from the pulpit? Frankly, from most sermons and books I’ve been exposed to by Hyles, Linda is the least mentioned of the bunch. Wonder why?
I might as well say that, first, I do believe Linda Murphrey. That said, it’s true that therapies which attempt to recover lost memories have been criticized and often discredited. Here’s the problem: those were often the therapies done by Christian mental health quacks.
Seeing a therapist to deal with actual memories is altogether different from using therapies attempting to recover memories.
When I hear or read statements like ” I worked in the ………… field for years”, or similar, I remember a guy that used to brag about working at a nuclear power plant. I asked, “So, do you sweep the floors?” and he clammed up and wouldn’t talk about it.
“I work at……” isn’t much in the way of credentials.
You remind me of my first job in the publishing business. It was a summer job processing old books the library was getting rid of. My job was to tear out the pocket for the “Date Due” card (I realize younger readers don’t know what I’m talking about) and mark out the stamp that said “Property of Dallas Public Library.”
Kind of dull, but hey, I was in the business.
My wife & I was discussing as to why Linda Murphrey turned out the way she did (to turn against her own father). We believe that Linda got a “taste” of the world, and liked it. That explains why she now is a dance instructor, wears pants, and wears tops that are low enough to show cleavage. The scriptures say things like: 1John 2:15 “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.”; 2Corinthians 6:17 “Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,”; Psalms 1:1-2 “Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.” BTW, Bro. Hyles preached and taught on being separated from the world, as found in the scriptures. We believe that Linda never connected to the God of her dad. She never “caught what he taught”, which is the Word of God. I’m thinking of a very godly family in FBC of Hammond who did an excellent job in raising their son. The son connected to the God of his father, and made his father’s “God”. his “God”. Now, he’s a school principal and has a fine, godly family of 6 children. Linda, you definitely got in the wrong crowd!!! If it was possible for someone to be turning in their grave, your dad would be one turning in his grave. I hurt for you tremendously!!!
Oh, please. Even if she is a dance instructor, who cares? I should think Hyles, if he truly had been godly, would be upset over Schaap’s behavior. Oh, wait, prostate trouble made him have sex with a teenage girl. He’s not guilty after all. 🙄
People who are truly seeking God will find Him at FBC only if they open their Bibles. They certainly didn’t find God in the “Polished Shaft” sermon.
@Tom H.—If you & your wife think that the “taste” of the world, dancing, pants and low-neckline tops are what caused Linda to “turn out the way she did”, then you both need to go back to the think-tank and figure out what caused David Hyles to turn out the way he did!
The correct conclusion: Hypocrisy! Kids know it when they see it in their parents, and react in a million different ways. Some denounce it(Linda) some follow the same example of it(David)and some deny it(Cindy). In light of the recent Schaap scandal, it makes one wonder which god (from his KJV) was Dr. Jack Hyles teaching about?
I guess I don’t see the correlation between Christianity and a woman that wears pants but anyway. Another possibility for her leaving the fundamental independent Baptist cult would be that perhaps she was tired all the tradition and religious repetition spewed from the pulpit by men, that in their own minds, feel that they are Holy enough to cast accusations and judgment upon fellow sinners. Maybe she was disillusioned by her fathers affair with his secretary. Maybe all of the spiritual, emotional, physical and sexual abuse of Christians at the hands of leadership at FBC of Hammond finally put her under conviction to a point that she said enough is enough. About all you can do is take her word at face value. The evidence clearly suggests that the conditions and treatment of people at the hands of her father are most likely true. Everyone thought Jackie boy was the enlightened one too until they found out he was molesting children all while serving at the pulpit……who knows fortunately we are all covered by grace if we have accepted Christ as our savior, even with pants on.
Tom H.,
It is you that I pity completely, but hope that one day your eyes will be opened to the truth!
Anon’s words are amazingly put and carry all the truth needed for anyone to see clearly the ill-effects that jack hyles had on the individuals that he tried to condition into his ways. His ways were not God’s ways but tainted completely by his selfish desires to be successful. Success was not his, as he so often told, in his early years and thusly he strove break that stigma to become an icon, an idol, more simply put!
Go back and do your homework! Gather your wife and those whom you acclaim to have come to your ranting conclusions. Sit down and sincerely pray to God Almighty for guidance. Do this on several occasions even before you place yourselves in an arena of discussions of these topics. Make sure that your communion with God is good, so that you can receive His guidance and blessings as you seek out the truth of the matters, relying on the wisdom that only He can bestow upon you. Remove your bitter judgements and open your hearts to truthfully face the realities of all the years and ill-effects that the ministry that jack hyles maneuvered and manipulated into place.
Until you sincerely approach this topic and accept the bare truth, then you will continue in your blind faith, not of God, but of man and the sinful ways that they have manipulated you into believing are the only and correct path.
Linda Murphrey earned her stripes. Learn from her experiences and grow. Please do hurt for her, because jack hyles hurt her deeply, but may it not have been in vain!
Take action for yourselves. Stop defending the despicable behavior of jack hyles, dave hyles, jack schaap, and the slew of others such as joseph & evangeline combs and the like!
The two of you need to take your blinders off for your own sakes and the your loved ones! I, sincerely, hurt for YOU!
~~~Heart 😕
Ah, ha ha. Nice April fool’s post 😕
If Tom H. isn’t for real, that’s okay, because it never hurts to confront ‘Poe’ fools, on April Fool’s Day or any other time, for that matter!
Been There & Doc…
I can’t say that I am familiar with everyone’s name and so I have no idea if this is an April Fool’s antic, but my words still ring true for all those out there who may be holding on to the views that Tom H. has delivered.
Thanks for the support, Been There and possibly for an astute observation Doc? LOL
~~~Heart 🙄
I Want to her what your Mom says about this! I am sorry if you REALLY went through that! I hope you realize that if it did happen, have you learned to forgive. Thank the Lord that Jesus forgave us!! No one is perfect, and I hope you can really heal! God loves you and I hope you realize that we are all sinners and that you realize that you need Jesus! He loves you and you need to accept Him as your personal savior! Romans 5:8 says ” But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” I feel sorry for you, and I will be praying for you!! I really would love to hear your Mom on this! Try to get her to talk! God Bless!!! I love you in Jesus!
Melissa
Melissa, why do you assume that Ms Murphrey is lying? IF you care about her, why don’t you pray that she will be able to take graciously and lovingly such passive-aggressive nastiness such as your statement. “IF” indeed.
Why do you assume she isn’t lying? Why is it that the ones who complain the most about the subject you like are the ones telling the truth? Anyone who knows anything about how a church is run just laughs at the accusations made my Linda. If it really were as bad as she said, why do you think her daughter went to college there as well? Anger only feeds those with weak minds and hearts. It is not passive-aggressive nastiness to stick up for the ones being lied about either.
The main reason to assume she is not lying is she is giving first hand account information. If she was lying it should be easy to find multiple family members and close associates to who could give corroborating evidence to the contrary. But all we see is Linda being attacked personally. If you can’t defend against the message then defame the messenger.
Collectively we have had similar experiences so we understand Linda’s journey. Many of us have been exposed to either Jack and his empire and/or other men of his ilk and we know Linda is not exaggerating in the story she tells. If anything she is being very reserved and gracious.
It must hit very close to home for you Sid for you to continue to attack Linda and defend the House of Hyles the way you do.
Agreed
Again I ask, why do you assume that she IS lying? If a person calls another person a liar, the burden of proof is on the accuser, not on the accused. Prove that she isn’t, and I’ll believe you and join the chorus.
Just because you may not have ever been a part of a church run that way (or merely not known about it; many people don’t), doesn’t mean that all churches are not run that way. Do not invalidate her experience because it doesn’t match yours.
As for why her daughter went there, I have no idea. Why don’t you ask her? It takes a lot of courage to stand up to that environment, and maybe she just wasn’t ready to do so. I’m not going to speak for anyone’s motives.
WOW! I make one comment…and an honest comment at that, and look at how many negative people come out to defend the accuser. Just because someone says something doesn’t make it true. It doesn’t matter if that person is the daughter and lives in the house of the one she is criticizing. Sounds just like a bunch of junior highers coming to the defense of their peers because “they are all doing it.” That is no reason to believe what Linda has said. How many angry children tell lies about parents just because they don’t get their way?
I laugh at all the narrow-mindedness of those who automatically think Linda is telling the “gospel truth” and that everyone having a different version of the situation are the spawn of satan! The very fact that the comments are so angry and negative against anyone disagreeing with them just proves my point–you can’t always believe someone just because they say what you want to hear. That doesn’t make it truth.
Sydney,
You’ve referred to those people who are running churches, well that they are laughing at Linda… Not Christ-like behavior!
You should seriously get away from that kind of leadership because your prattle is weak and it is apparent that you have allowed yourself to be misguided.
Have a heart and through compassion attempt to understand Linda’s words and the purpose of her forthcomings. Now that is Christ-like behavior!
And, by the way, take a good look at all the history and surrounding evidences before you support the jack hyles, dave hyles, jack schaap and any other associates of whom you choose to advocate!
Surely it’s your prerogative, but choose wisely AFTER you have honestly sought out the truth with honesty and not blind ignorant faith in men!
Until then, don’t cause more harm than good because you are responsible and accountable for the words you gather together and place here for the world to read and for the influences you project! Be careful!
~~~Heart ❗
So Sid, how close is your reputation and financial well being tied to the House of Hyles? Your dogmatic refusal to entertain that Linda may be telling the truth seems to either be a defense of something or someone with intimate ties to the Hyles empire or you have something personal against Linda herself. People just do not knowingly and willingly defend a lie unless there is something personal at stake. What’s your stake in this? (I refuse to believe mere Jack Hyles worship is that strong, there has to be something else.)
The converse is equally true:
“you can’t always disbelieve someone just because they say something you don’t want to hear. That doesn’t make it a lie.”
First Baptist Church of Hammond and Hyles-Anderson have been corrupt for many, many years. Have your read the Chicago Magazine article from earlier this year? Schaap is just one in a long line of pervs that are the demented fruit of this bad ministry.
And yet Hyles supporters lash out at Linda for daring to say their beloved emperor had no clothes!!!
Behold your real legacy FBCH sycophants:
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-2013/Let-Us-Prey-Big-Trouble-at-First-Baptist-Church/