594 thoughts on “Breaking Free: Linda Hyles Murphrey Speaks At TEDxOjaiChange”
I grew up with a HAC graduate as a pastor who basically “forced” me to go to Hyles-Anderson (It may sound silly that someone could force you to go, but when everyone in your family is told you have to go and they follow what he says, you are forced).
My 2-3 years there were awful. I attended college with Jacklyn Schaap/Weber and her husband Todd. I never made the “in” crowd with them, but I just couldn’t handle everything that was there.
I hid myself, my sexuality, and left depressed and sad. I am now a person happy with myself and happy to be who I am. 🙂
If you’re stuck, now is the perfect time to get out and be happy with yourself. This video is a shining testimony of a successful person who escaped madness. Kudos to Linda 🙂 ❗
I don’t believe that is true of any ministry. And if the church ever had 50,000 members, thousands of those were bus kids. The suggestion that he was the recipient of all of the tithes of all of those people is also not realistic. To operate the buses, buildings, staff (even if underpaid), and all of the daily expenses would keep it from all accruing to him. “he left it all to the organization”? Ministry property belongs to the ministry, not to the individual. Sorry, this story doesn’t ring true at all.
What about the stories of the dysfunction in the home? The sexual affairs of Hyles and his son? Any of that ring true or are you just ignoring it?
You just keep your head in the sand Joey.
No, Scorpio. No head in the sand. I don’t have access to personal family information. But I do have a lot of years in the ministry and I do question the accuracy of her statements in that area. It affects the credibility of other things she says. When a part of your cult-case is built on the financial practices, facts are more relevant than false insinuations.
I have never been a student at HAC, nor do I have a loyalty pledge of any kind. My comment only pertains to the video above.
I haven’t seen the video yet, but from your comment on it I don’t think she meant he literally received every penny.
For example, I would say my boss gets the money when we receive a check from a job we do. And yet most of it is dispersed into overhead, paychecks, insurance, etc etc. He gets it because he’s the head of the company.
again, this lady is boring
joey is the only reasonable one here. her credibility has been pooped on
You may not believe that is your right but don’t condemn the speaker Linda Hyles I was there during the time she talks about and sold and installed a set of walnut kitchen cabinets in the home of Jack Hyles. I was in some of the same classes as she was in collage. Did I know of all the things going on at the time? NO but looking back now I can see it. I always thought Linda always had a far away look in school.
As for 50,000 members they would have had many more I’m sure and no they were not all bus kids. When I left to go back to IL after having been there as part of the first class at the collage they had over 23,000 in attendance every Sunday. The first week I attended 6 years earlier there average attendance was 4,500. So please find out the facts before opening you mouth!
Linda wasn’t saying that all the tithes & offerings came to her family. But being the head of the church, Jack would have had a massive salary that would have come out of those offerings.
Also, she meant his personal wealth was willed to the organization and not the family.
What–do you think she was making all of this up?
Just so you know. I was a member of that church for 25 years. I saw the budgets, that the church members voted on each and every year. I believe the most Dr. Hyles made (in salary from the church) was aroung $35,000. That was after nearly 40 years as pastor. The majority of his money (which he gave large amounts to helping others) came from his books, sermon tapes, etc., which was under the unbrella of “Hyles Publications.” All I can say is that Linda is a very sad & angry woman. Would any of us want our families “dirty laundry” aired for all to see? After all, “a good name is rather to be chosen than great riches.” Speaking of which, how much was Linda paid for her “dumping on the family” speech???
Of course his salary was only 35 K. Tax reasons. There are all kinds of ways to get rich in a mega-ministry besides “salary”. Salary is the last way you want to obtain your money.
“A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches” is completely misapplied to this situation. Are you suggesting the verse refers to covering up the lies and abuses within your family in order to obtain a “good name”?
How sad for you to be so jealous of anyone making money that you have to make it sound illegal or immoral. If you knew anything about the tax structure, you would know that if his intentions were to stay in a lower tax bracket, it could have been as much as $49,999.
Don’t get me wrong. Of course, I’m not for covering sin. However, it does no one any good to broadcast other’s supposed “sins” just to make yourself feel better. Linda doesn’t look better because of this. She looks like a bitter, sad woman. If it be true that the kids got no inheritance, maybe she is angry about that as well.
It’s easy to spread this kind of poison when a person is dead and has no way to refute the accusations.
Whether they be true or false, this is still just gossip!
Is that what it is Sydney?? She is bitter? That’s what all of you IFB’S say when someone leaves or exposes one of you. I believe with all my heart that she is telling the truth because she was there and she lived with him. You don’t know what goes on in someone’s home unless you live with them. And with what he just got in trouble for, YES I believe she is telling the truth, she has no reason to lie!
No, I did not live in the Hyles house, however, neither did you!
She lied about so many other things she said in her speech, so why would you think she is telling the truth about her family?
Every family has secrets. Some worse than others, but the very fact that, at her age, she feels the need to “expose” those secrets is a sad thing, especially since her dad has been dead for 11 years now. I would rather people think good of my family, even though they may have skeletons in their closet. But obviously, Linda thought it would make her look good to tell the world. It didn’t. Yes, she is bitter!
Like I said before, whether it be true or not, it is still gossip!
There you go again with the BITTER word. Amazing how you IFB’S throw the bitter word because that’s all you have. Im glad you want people to think good of your family which could be a lie…that’s what IFB’S do is lie, it’s all they know! But the bible says “Your sins will find you out” So his sins found him out!! And who would better know than the one who lived with him? I admire her strength for being able to tell what these IFB’S are and how they destroy in Gods name. I really don’t see the point in arguing about this because if what all that is being said weren’t true then there would not be a whole list of IFB’S preachers in jail for rape and molesting children, ya think??!! Not to mention the preacher Schaap who is about to go to jail for the same thing. They are some sick sick people and God is going to come down hard on them!
I’m glad God has more mercy than you do, or we would all be in Hell without any chance of Heaven!
By the way, you sound pretty BITTER as well! Guess that’s why you would side with anyone who would try to tear down another, at all cost!
I am not for covering sin, but God will take care of that.
And what is this “IFB” all about???? Why do you assume that everyone who wants to preserve a family’s name is and Independent Fundamental Baptist??? After all the Bible speaks very strongly of having a good name and most of the time that was said of people who had committed, what we would call, huge sins!
I’m so sorry that your “god” is so small that it takes people telling of other’s sins to be able to have those people “punished.” My GOD is so GREAT that HE and HE ALONE, knows ALL, sees ALL, and certainly is able to “punish” ALL, as HE SEES FIT! It doesn’t take a BITTER person spreading GOSSIP for God to know what to do.
By the way, Robin, I happen to know of several other words that would apply to Linda. Words like self-entered, angry, frustrated, mad, holding grudges, belittler, self-righteous, and the list can go on and on. Just because I chose the word “bitter” doesn’t mean I have no other words to describe a person who would get paid to give an entire speech to a group of people with one sole purpose in mind–so-called “expose” the family secrets so she can “feel” better about herself. I happen to think that God can help a person “feel” better by allowing them to confess all things to Him. We don’t need to confess them to the world to “feel” better about anything. All that does is stir up strife. God is a God of order, not disorder & this is another trick of the Devil to try to hurt the cause of Christ. Read your Bible!
You didn’t live in the Hyles house, and Linda did, but she is the one who is lying. You know this how? And not every family has secrets. Secrets like these should be exposed. Especially if the person is dead. Because such a person received their accolades when they were alive, and now let the truth be known so that others may know them for who they really were and stop worshipping their memory. Jack Hyles’ sin finally found him out.
Blah blah blah bitter, blah blah blah gossip..c’mon give us something better than that. Proove to us she is lying and only then will I believe you. Look at the record of the IFB’S, it pretty much speaks for itself, Linda doesn’t even have to say anything about her father, it’s pretty much known! BTW Gossip is spreading lies about someone to hurt them. Linda is not doing that, she is telling the truth and I believe God put it in her heart to come out and tell the truth and God will protect her because He wants everyone to know what kind of people these IFB’S are!
Again (and I feel like I’ve said this a million times), there’s a difference between anger and bitterness. Victims feel anger over their violation, and they want justice. That is NOT bitterness. That is a normal, natural, HEALTHY part of the grieving/healing process. Bitterness, otoh, is a desire for vengeance and a want to hurt others — often anyone and including the innocent.
If you don’t know the difference, don’t accuse people of being bitter. Actually, stop accusing people of being bitter anyway. It doesn’t serve a purpose, and it’s hurtful. If people are bitter, they are already hurting. Why hurt them further? Just to make yourself superior? Well, wtg — you’re superior. Here’s your sticker.
Oh, so sorry! Please let me rephrase — I think Linda Murphrey is angry AND bitter! How’s that? Does it cover all the bases now???
Here’s what sums it up: No one is allowed to comment on any sins of those at First Baptist Church or any other “Man of God,” but you are allowed to tell all of us that we are wrong and that Linda Murphrey is bitter and angry.
Strange you feel that way. I guess that’s the purpose of this site. If we all were in agreement, there would be no need for discussion.
Exactly, Warren Buffet (Multi-Billionair) only takes a 100K salary a year.
A word regarding Hyles Income, according to his own statements referenced in the “Biblical Evangelist” articles.
When we asked Judy Nischik Johnson if she knew anything about Hyles her mother money, she replied, “Yes, I do. Everything that was provided when I was growing up was money that somehow mysteriously appeared to my mother.” Without her seeing him put it in her mother’s hand, she said she “knew it came from him,” adding that she sometimes saw large amounts of cash lying round.
Perhaps a word would be in order about the large sums of unaccounted cash Hyles dispenses – with no records of any kind. By his own statement, he does not deposit his speaking honorariums in the bank, cashing them instead and disbursing them as he chooses – doing the same with gifts from “friends” across the country – and there is no record kept of the monies or of their distribution.
When he was subpoenaed to give a deposition in the Nischik case, he was ordered to “bring all his records. ” He brought none. When the attorney asked why, he responded that there were none, that he never keeps any. Hyles says he has given hundreds of thousands of dollars” this way. (Whether the IRS knows of this interesting system of accounting or not, we cannot say.) We are not talking about petty cash, but large sums that have, at least to one individual, totaled tens of thousands of dollars.
Follow the money…
I feel sorry for you. You seem really bitter against Linda. You should spend some time praying about your harbored hurt, and then go to her and apologize or you’ll never have fellowship with God.
I have nothing to apologize to Linda for. I am sorry for her. I’m sorry that she has let her hatred of her family feed on her so much that she has a need to try and tear down others.
Anyone who thinks the Hyles family is perfect is wearing blinders. On the same token, try following what Jesus said about the accusers in the Bible when He said for them to remove the beam from their own eye before the splinter in their neighbors.
You don’t have to broadcast other people’s sins & shortcomings to try and elevate yourself. If she feels bad about herself because of others, she should get her eyes off people & on Jesus. He can take care of the problems she has encountered. It’s not for her to be the “reporter” of everything bad in her family. And by the way, do you really think it makes any of us better Christians by knowing what other Christians have done wrong??? (And in this case, as so many others, things they may or may not have done?)
If we, as Christians, do not stand up for Christians and for the cause of Christ, WHO WILL???? Certainly not the unsaved, nor even the haters of “IFB.” Love the sinner, hate the sin. Don’t be judge & jury. God will take care of that!
Sydney — there is a time and a place to “stand up” for other Christians. Christians who are unrepentant in their behavior and actions do not need others to “stand up” for them and indeed would probably prefer other Christians to NOT stand up for them. Truly repentant Christians and Christians who have been victimized by others — those are the ones for whom we should be standing up.
That’s what Jesus did. Like you said — get your eyes on Him, and learn from His actions.
Thank you for pointing that out. I agree we should be standing up for the repentent, however, we also should not want all the good that has been done for the cause of Christ to go down the toilet on false (or even true) accusations that have already been addressed. The lies Linda told about her father “owning” the church, the schools & college buildings, along with his having access to all the tithes from the church, among so many other things she said are simply that, lies! If anyone believes those things, they are ignorant about how a church operates. What went on “behind closed doors” of the Hyles house are things that are between them and God. I am not justifying any sins, or covering any wrong, but I am saying that it does more harm to the furtherance of God’s Word than it does good in “exposing” peoples’ wrongdoings, all to make one person “feel” better about herself.
We, as Christians, bickering about such things allows the Devil to back off & go fight someone else who is actually doing a good work for Christ. We Christians are doing the Devil’s work for him!
None of us will ever know the truth until we get to Heaven, so I think it best to let God take care of the exposing and punishing of sin–after all, He is so much better at it than we are! Wouldn’t you agree????
Again, God DID take care of the exposing! He used Linda to do the exposing! How can anyone say he did good work for Christ?? Molesting and or raping a child and or having an affair is doing good works for Christ??? Nope, don’t think so! It’s people like you that make me want to quit church all together and just stay home. Thank God I have a wonderful church family that keeps me grounded in my Faith in God and not man! We Christians are the reason alot of non Christians won’t come to know Jesus!!!
Robin, you totally hit the nail right on the head! We Christians ARE the reason a lot of people won’t come to God! That’s my entire point!
By Linda sharing her supposed horrible past, it will be used by the Devil to poison the minds of some who may be wanting to turn to Christ, but now they will be hinder in doing so!
By the way, Linda said nothing of “molesting” or “raping.” What are you talking about?????
I think why most of here have a hard time with your desire to just let God deal with it and not say bad things about other Christians, is that we grew up in churches where other Christians were maligned all the time. Whether they were other denominations, contemporary Christian musicians, or pastors who expoused Calvinism, they were denigrated and vilified, even if they proclaimed the Gospel of the sinfulness of man, Christ’s virgin birth, the vicarious atonement of Christ’s death, and His physical resurrection.
They were proclaiming Christ’s Gospel, but because they weren’t IFB, they were criticized and judged even if they didn’t commit sins like adultery.
So it seems hypocritical for IFB pastors to ask people to overlook their own sins. It’s like the ungrateful servant who was forgiven a huge debt himself but then wanted to throw a fellow servant in jail over a small amount of debt.
Good point!
In my life I have attended a myriad of Baptist churches. Each of them seemed to be critical of the others. Missionary Baptists didn’t like the General Baptist, who didn’t like the Southern Baptists, who didn’t like the Independent Fundamental Baptists, and so the circle continued. I guess, maybe through my upbringing, I was “brainwashed” (as some of you seem to think) into thinking for myself, questioning authority if it was against the Bible, and standing up for other “good” people (no matter what denomination or religion they were). So, maybe a lot of the ideals people have concerning Independent Fundamental Baptists doesn’t necessarily apply to me.
I agree that there are things taught in every church that are “humanistic” in value, but that doesn’t mean that EVERYTHING in ANY church is wrong. There are wonderful leaders and members in FBCH. There are sweet, kind, wholesome, godly people there. It saddens my heart that there are so many hateful people, most of whom know nothing about FBCH, that lump all the people in with the few.
If we lived in Utopia, no church would have even one sinner! But face it, folks, this world is not Utopia. There are sinners here! I know this really bursts a lot of pios bubbles, but yes, it’s true!
Just because there are sinners, and sin should and will be punished (by God), it should not be covered or hidden. After all, God put it in the Bible that things done in secret shall be revealed for all to see. That does not, however, give us the authority to be the “expose all” “tell all” “reporters” of every wicked deed ever done!
When the church found out of the recent situation, they immediately dealt with it. Now we have hundreds, yea, even thousands of “reporters” spreading the bad news, just as fast and as harshly as they possibly can! (And they don’t even have their facts straight.) That is not the business of us Christians! We do not have to know all the details of any goings-on in the church. We have to trust that God knows and is dealing with it in His time and in His manner. If you feel your church is not as it should be, go to God and He will lead you to the church that is best for you.
Thank you for letting me voice my opinions on this subject.
There have been numerous cases of child molestation and even rape occurring at FBCH over the years, most of them covered up. Google A.V. Ballenger, for example. There was a case in the early 90s of a disabled girl who was repeatedly raped. And now Schaap and his 16-17 year old victim.
It’s a pattern. A pattern that repeats over and over and over again …
Once again, speaking without knowledge.
For your information, A.V. Ballenger was arrested, tried,sentenced, and served his time in prison.
As for the other situation of the diabled person, I have no knowledge, so I have no opinion!
And when it comes to Jack Schaap, that too is being dealt with–not covered up!
Need to get your facts straight!
Where in the world did I say A.V. Ballenger’s case was covered up? I didn’t. I said *most* cases there were covered up. I did NOT say HIS case was covered up.
Yes, Dear, You did say “most” but you referenced A.V. Ballenger (check your post at August 10, 2012 at 3:25 pm). In case you forgot, here’s what you said:
“There have been numerous cases of child molestation and even rape occurring at FBCH over the years, most of them covered up. Google A.V. Ballenger, for example. There was a case in the early 90s of a disabled girl who was repeatedly raped. And now Schaap and his 16-17 year old victim.
It’s a pattern. A pattern that repeats over and over and over again …”
Maybe you didn’t mean that A.V. Ballenger’s case was covered up, but that’s what I understood your statement, “Google A.V. Ballenger, for example.” in your comment to have meant to you.
And, for another uninformed patron: Jack Schaap did not “molest” a child. He had sex with a 17-year-old girl. No, I am not excusing him. Nor am I saying it was right in any way, shape or form, but please don’t lead people to think he was molesting a child. And, by the way, this situation is not being “covered up” or “hidden” at all!
First, there is no need to patronize me.
Second, he began having sex with her when she was 16. It was not an affair. It was abuse. Anyone who really, truly thinks that a 54 year old married pastor having sex with a 16 (or 17) year old girl he is counseling for sexual abuse is just A-OK needs to have his or her head examined. It’s an abuse of power and an abuse of position, not to mention just plain old adultery.
He abused her. There is no two ways about it, and by continuing to insist he didn’t, you (and those like you) are a part of the problem, not the solution. You (and those like you) are making excuses for him. You (and those like you) are working to make it sound “not so bad.”
But it IS bad. It’s horrible. Most people reel back in horror at what he’s done. And while what he’s done may not be a crime in Indiana, it IS a crime in Illinois, where he dragged her across state lines. And it may also be a crime in Michigan, where he also dragged her. Oh, and it’s against federal law to traffic minors across state lines for sexual purposes.
So what was that you were saying about him not molesting her?
Oh, that’s right. It was “just an affair”? Bull. It was abuse.
Call it what you like, but you need to go back & re-read what I said. I was not making any excuses for anything done. But, you, on the other hand, are making it sound as though he was forcing himself on little grade-school age girls, and that is not what happened. It is not just “bad,” it is an abomination! It is a horrendous sin and should, and will, be punished.
I take offense at your incenuation that I am making it sound less “bad” than it is. I don’t. If this were Texas, I feel the father of the girl had every right to take matters into his own hands.
It does nothing to help anyone by us arguing about the symantics though. The accusations were addressed & the evidence was presented. Steps (within the church) were appropriately taken. And everything has been turned over to the authorities.
For those of you who think FBC didn’t do enough…well, there is no changing your opinions–and you have a right to those opinions, just like I have a right to mine. Let’s just leave it at that!
Incidentally, Sydney, in my post, since you’re so careful to read (what you want to read), I stated quite clearly that Schaap’s victim was 16-17. I never stated that he molested a CHILD. Perhaps you need to read a bit more carefully next time.
Here’s my direct quote: “And now Schaap and his 16-17 year old victim.”
How you get “little girl” out of that is beyond me.
That said, 16 (and 17) is extremely young — and in most states, a 16 year old is statutory rape (RAPE, including in Illinois, where a 50+ year old man having sex with a 16 yo girl would be a rapist and have to register as a sexual offender).
The man is sick. (And that is MY opinion, based on facts.)
Really, Sydney? You need to read Matthew 23 and tell me Jesus was not talking about the corrupt religious leaders and calling them out in public. Clearly you think you are in a position to preach at us here. 🙄
Tammy, Not sure what you expect. I was concisely stating facts. Who was preaching? Any of the comments made on this site could be considered “preaching” and all we are doing is voicing our opinions, and some facts (and fiction) I don’t even know why you responded to this in the way you did.
It has been my experience, that if I agree with the majority of you, I’m right. If I disagree, then I’m wrong. You all have a right to condemn me, but I have no rights at all. Guess this is a good reason for staying off these blogs. Too many angry people with their minds so set in stone that there is no changing them, even with the truth!
Good night!
When the Bible talks about having a good name, it is NOT advocating preserving a good name by hushing up the evil one does and pretending it didn’t happen. A good name is created by good behavior; a good name is preserved by good character, not white-washed over with cover-ups.
A good name means nothing if it is based on lies.
The “good name” I was referencing was Linda’s. She is destroying her name by being so vendictive.
Sydney is so brainwashed that he will NEVER see! That’s what they do, they brainwash people, I have seen it! And you can tell these people the truth and they are so brainwashed that they will make excuses for them. Sydney if it were your child that was raped or malested (sp) by this man or any other IFB pastors that are in jail now for that, I bet the tables would turn. Oh but these people are just bitter liars until it happens to you!
Sydney is so brainwashed that he will NEVER see! That’s what they do, they brainwash people, I have seen it! And you can tell these people the truth and they are so brainwashed that they will make excuses for them. Sydney if it were your child that was raped or malested (sp) by this man or any other IFB pastors that are in jail now for that, I bet the tables would turn. Oh but these people are just bitter liars until it happens to you!
None of us really knows what we would do, or feel, in any situation unless it actually happened to us. But you are right, I think I would want to “kill” the person who would rape my child. Guess we should all move to Texas!
If I am brain”washed” I guess that means you are brain”dirty” and should be “washed.” Pretty interesting–anyone who has a different point of view is referred to as being “brainwashed.”
Syndey, it’s a known fact that IFB pastors brainwash people just ask all the one’s that have left that cult and the first thing they say is how they were brainwashed.
Robin, “it’s a known fact” is pretty presumptuous! How about saying “it’s a known opinion” since a “fact” has to have basis and the only basis you have for your accusations is opinion!
You too are throwing out the “cult” word. Well, let’s put it to a test. I googled the definition of “cult” and here’s the first listing’s definition:
Cult – Noun:
1.A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
2.A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
So, according to that definition, it sounds like Jesus Himself was in a CULT. People thought of Him as having “strange” or “sinister” practices. He was a part of the “veneration” (or feeling of respect for a person — i.e. God the Father)
I think I would rather be affiliated with Jesus’ CULT than critical of those who oppose Him.
And your “facts” are coming from those who “left” FBC. People leave churches for many reasons. Some move away, some get their feelings hurt and leave, some don’t agree with the teachings, etc. Not everyone will like any church, of any persuasion! That’s another trick the Devil uses to keep people from going to heaven. The more he can deter the cause of Christ, the more the Devil has won his crusade.
Think about it before you judge others!
Sydney, you must somehow be related to this sick pedophile or you would not be defending him. A member of a church where I live where an IFB took it over was told by the IFB pastors child that his dad (the pastor) lies because he has too. And besides he can lie because he is the pastor. His on father told him that because he is the pastor he can lie. And I have seen ALOT of cover-ups or where the church has tried to cover up these sick sick pedophiles. I feel sorry for you because you are so blinded and act as if its ok for him to have had sex with this 16 year old but that because he committed adultry then it was wrong??!! Sorry but a 54 year old man having sex with a 16 year old to me is sick and considered a pediphile and rapist as far as I am concerned. It’s not just about adultry. And how do you expect for God to have people find out about these sicko’s if someone doesn’t come forward. Do you think they are going to just tell everyone voluntarily?? I just don’t understand your thinking and I would not want to be a part of a church where something like that went on and I’m sure alot of the members are very nice Godly Christians but I also bet the majority are brainwashed too by these IFB’S.
No, I am not a member of that family. I do not attend that church any more. I live thousands of miles away, and I am not for covering sin.
What in your wildest dreams would possess you to even think I would approve of this kind of behavior? Obviously, you have not read any of my posts, or you would know that I am 100% for this being punished, dealt with swiftly and completely! I am never for anyone abusing another person EVER!
It’s so easy for you to throw out the word “sick” when you have nothing but contempt for others who don’t agree with you. And weren’t you the one who was saying that IFB were always using the word “bitter?”
Sydney, it’s people like you that make me not want to go to church anymore. And to be honest with you, if there is a non Christian out there reading all this mess, then we all arguing have ruined OUR testimony and it will only push them further and further from God. The reason I said you must be a relative of his is because the way you are acting about all of this. All of this name calling and judging is NOT going to bring anyone closer to God and yes that goes for all of us. It is what it is and he is going to pay for what he did as will and did the others that have done these horrible things. But again what should we think about someone who doesn’t know God reading all this arguing and bickering. I am to the point that even I don’t want to go to church anymore myself! Again as I stated in a previous comment, if she is lying then sue her!! I have not heard of any lawsuits so therfor I believe that she is telling the truth but all this arguing is not going to bring a non Christian to church, it will probably run them further away because of all of our arguing and bickering and accusations. I’m sure you would agree with me on that!
Funny, but I’ve been saying that since I first got online today. All I got in response was comments like I was covering up sin, hiding sin, siding with pedophiles, and being called names, etc. I guess some of what I said did rub off on at least one of you posters. Arguing between Christians does nothing but harm the cause of Christ. Good night! And God Bless!
I don’t think she dumped it was time to wash the laundry!
I know you know me if you attended church there I started the blind department there.
this lady is quite boring
Much like yourself.
One of the remarkable things about Linda coming forward is that now, several other children of IFB pastors who sinned sexually are speaking out on her Facebook wall.
The granddaughter of Jim Vineyard, the son of Wally Beebe, the daughter of Bob Gray of Florida, and the daughter of one of the Smith guys who is the brother of the Smith married to Becky Hyles, have all thanked Linda for speaking up. They’ve all expressed similar experiences with their dysfunctional IFB dads.
I guess they’re all lying and bitter, too. 🙄
Pearl, you just named a few, there are no telling how many others that haven’t spoken up because they are too afraid. I wish everyone who has been molested and or raped by these sick IFB’S would come forward so that they can be put away for a VERY long time! These people make me sick to my stomach. It’s not bitterness, it’s called telling the truth. I notice that the IFB followers throw the bitter word out there because they can’t think of nothing else to say. They may not pay for it on earth but they will surely pay for it when they meet God because God says not to hurt any of his children.
It’s funny how much hatred YOU people have against “IFB.” I am all for predators, of any race, creed, religion, etc., to be punished for their sins. However, the hatred in YOU people seens to ONLY be focused on “IFB” sinners! Look at your own peers. How many of them have committed the same sins as the ones you are so willing to crucify? HUH????? Never did a study on them, did you???? Or, is it that you don’t care about them being punished, just the “IFB”??????
I don’t have hate for the IFB. I hate their sin and that is what we are supposed to do. Hate the sin! But you are so about hiding this mans sin that it has consumed you and made you as sick as they are 🙂
I’m sorry you feel that way, but I am not for covering any sins. I am for allowing God to uncover & punish the sins, as HE sees fit! All we are doing is following the Devil in his fight against God!
I don’t have hate for the IFB. I hate their sin and that is what we are supposed to do. Hate the sin! But you are so consumed about hiding this mans sin that it has consumed you and made you as sick as they are 🙂
Robin, Robin, Robin, you know nothing about me. You assume (because you hate IFB) that I am covering sin. That simply is NOT true. I am, however, saying that God knows better than man how and when to punish sin.
I’m glad for God’s grace. If it weren’t for His mercy and grace, we would all burn in Hell! If it were up to so many of the posters concerning this matter, there would be no way for us to go to Heaven. God punished sin, with mercy and grace. Even though we say we want “justice,” that only applies to “others.” We want “grace” and “mercy” when it comes to our sins being punished. Ain’t God GOOD!
Well, after all, this is the Stuff FUNDIES Like site, so pretty much, yeah, it’s only going to be about the IFB. If you want to go to find people healing from other kinds of abuse, you should probably visit other sites.
Totally understood. But my point is that the way so many posters (on this site) sound, you would think the only place anything bad, like this, ever happens is in IFB churches. No stats have been taken as to how many cases there are in any other walks of life. Not that I would want there to be any cases, in any walks of life, but I think you catch the drift.
Ummmm, there’s a reason for that. I don’t think there are “official stats” for any particular denomination.
But without official stats, I can tell you that in my personal experience, I’ve known approximately 150 non-IFB pastors. 1 of them has so far turned up as someone with an improper sexual interest in children.
I’ve known, or known of, about half that many IFB pastors. So far we’re on 20 and counting.
Thanks Pearl as I said before it was time to wash the laundry!
Is this video available at another site. It is not available on youtube any more.
Dangit. The video has gone private. Does anyone know if it’s available anywhere else?
Dear Michelle M:
I downloaded the video in question to hard drive because nothing on the internet permanent. I’m new here and don’t know the policy for posting e-mail addys, or whether a policy exists. Perhaps Darrell would be willing to accept the file and pass it on to you.
Another question is, ‘who uploaded the video file to YouTube.’ Where the file has ‘gone private,’ I can’t confirm whether it was Linda herself or another party. If it was Linda’s account, I think that integrity requires that we respect her wishes. Of course others may well have downloaded it also. And it may be uploaded on other accounts.
I wonder if this video went private after pressure or threats were brought against this girl because she found the gumption to stand up for herself. Equally possible [pray it be so] is that she has reserved this as a ‘private’ resource for other women and people on the inside, who are contacting her now that she has told her story. If she indeed desires to have such a ministry [God knows it is needed!], she will need to do so in an environment that precludes the attacks that will come inevitably because she has spoken up for herself [and others].
SourceForge has a number of free programs which are malware/adware/freeware, including YouTube Downloaders.
Christian Socialist
Michelle:
A correction to the antecedent post … What I meant to say was ‘malware/adware/spyware-free freeware.
Christian Socialist
I was wondering what kind of site would have downloads of malware and adware available! 😛
Better to be “boring” than unkind and cowardly, doh. If you were so bored, why did you post three times to insult her? You’re obviously hiding behind some agenda.
Can somone either tell me where I can see the video or what it says or if there is a written transcript of it? Every time I try it says Private and won’t play. I would be so thankful.
Dr.Hyles was the most generous person I have ever had the privilege of meeting. He was not perfect and none of us are. He helped me to understand the Bible and God more than anyone ever has! His heart was genuine! Dr.Hyles laid up his treasures in heaven not on the earth! Shame on anyone who would disrespect a man who has been dead for years and not honor his memory…his daughter is the same bitter person she has was before her dad ever died! We only have one family and they may not be perfect, but its the only one you have and you should honor your parents-that is Biblical!!! Shame on you, Linda! You will reap what you sow!
Can you IFB’S come up with ANY other word than bitter? Is it all you can think of?? Why would you expect her to honor his memory when he put her through a horrible childhood. He doesn’t deserve any honor whatsoever! These IFB pastors act one way in public and a whole different way at home where the public can’t see. The bible does say we should honor our parents but it also says “Your sins will find you out” You people quote scripture to suit your needs, typical IFB. I don’t have to really say a thing about these IFB preachers they pretty much hang themselves eventually and that’s why a whole bunch of them are in jail for child molesting and rape. And yet you defend these people? I wonder what the bible says about that??!!
Robin, I have said over and over that I am not covering the sin. I believe in sin being “found out” and dealt with. I believe that, if we are “saved” even though our sins are under the blood of Christ, that those sins still have consequences. What I am saying is that, “who appointed Linda as the sole source of judgement?” There are so many things in her speech that are outright lies, and yet, because a few things she said about her family stirs the fires of hatred in you people who dislike “IFB,” you are willing to jump on her bandwagon and add to the hatred. Sin is sin, and sin will be punished. Gossip is sin, and it too will be punished. By the way, look it up. Gossip is not just limited to spreading lies, but in spreading anything that can hurt people.
Leave alone anything else: how do you know what she’s saying is a lie?
Most of what I heard her reference was her personal experience knowing her father intimately as a member of his household. Are you a member of the Schaap family?
Please tell something she said that was a lie?
I don’t think you can!
If “Dr.” Hyles was the most generous person you ever met, then your world must be very small indeed.
Again, you saw the Sunday morning Dr. Hyles. She lived with JACK 24/7. YOU are being judgmental about information to which you could NEVER be privy. I lived with an alcoholic who pointed a gun at me; NO ONE would have ever believed me if I had told them. Because in public he was a completely different person. YOU have NO idea what she lived through. So SHUT UP. When victims speak up, and her story is corroborated by other people’s accounts, you should be ashamed that you were associated with the perpetrator and didn’t see the abuse.
Tammy, you are living with blinders on if you think that we see the REAL person in ANYONE at all times. I’m sorry for your having to live with an alcoholic. I too, have a past. My dad was a philanderer & had such a vicious temper that on numerous occasions, I was beaten, as well as my brothers, sister & even my mother! However, I found God. I was saved when I was 11 years old. Today I live my life, hopefully to glorify God. I am a happy, healthy, normal person. I don’t fall back on the past in my life as a crutch for anything I don’t like about me now. It’s up to me, with God’s help, to make my life count for good. I don’t spread all the bad things that happened in my home when I was growing up. My dad was not my only obstacle–I also had two brothers who raped me repeatedly. I don’t want people feeling sorry for me. I turned to Christ & let Him remove the anger I had toward those things. I don’t hold a grudge. I love my brothers. My dad has been dead for many years now, but I don’t go around telling what he did so I can “feel” better. That’s just stupidity.
It’s great that you can move beyond all that. But you don’t really have the right to look down your nose at other victims who have not yet gotten to that stage of the healing process, and you should be ashamed of yourself for doing so. Healing is a PROCESS, not something that someone can just DO and accomplish suddenly, with a snap of the fingers. Sometimes it takes years, with or without God and prayer.
Hope if you have kids, you are keeping them away from those brothers of yours. Pedophiles don’t change. Even with God’s help.
Just because it takes time to heal doesn’t give anyone the right to destroy the work of so many while they are in the “process” of healing.
You say “looking down my nose” but you are so adamant that the so-called “guilty” be punished. Isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black???
By the way, we don’t live anywhere near my brothers, so you can put your mind at ease, and thanks for caring.
How is that the pot calling the kettle anything? I haven’t committed any crimes. Those who have committed crimes and victimized others most assuredly need to be brought to justice. It’s absurd to demand that victims simply forgive the crimes without expecting some sort of repentance, retribution, justice. Certainly, Jesus may have died for our sins, but God also commanded that we be in subjection to governmental authority. Those laws are there for a reason.
Jack Hyles may not have directly victimized anyone, but he sure as anything covered up his son’s actions as well as many of his church member’s. There is plenty of evidence to go around. And that’s not even getting into this Schaap mess.
Once again, I am not for “covering” or “hiding” any sins. I am for telling the wrongdoing to the one in charge, or the one who can do something about it, and then not spreading the “gossip” to others.
How is that the pot calling the kettle anything? I haven’t committed any crimes. Those who have committed crimes and victimized others most assuredly need to be brought to justice. It’s absurd to demand that victims simply forgive the crimes without expecting some sort of repentance, retribution, justice. Certainly, Jesus may have died for our sins, but God also commanded that we be in subjection to governmental authority. Those laws are there for a reason.
Jack Hyles may not have directly victimized anyone, but he sure as anything covered up his son’s actions as well as many of his church member’s. There is plenty of evidence to go around. And that’s not even getting into this Schaap mess.
So your issue is with the news media, correct? Because they’ve pounced on this Schaap thing like a cat on a mouse. Is that gossip, or is that news?
Oh, so you’re one of those who believe it because you heard it on the news????
How many times have reporters “reported” incorrect information!
No, I am not “pouncing” on the news media. I am saying that we, as Christians (assuming you are) should follow the guidelines set up by God, in the Bible for dealing with such things.
If we find wrongdoings, we should report them to the one who can correct the problem, and then not spread the gossip around. Whether or not true, it still is gossip.
By the way, here’s another bit of “gossip” for your coffers.
I just went back & re-read the transcript from Linda’s speech. Funny thing, but she also lied about people having to “ask her dad’s permission before going on vacation.” Maybe staff members needed to make sure their area would be covered in their absence, but we never had to “ask” the pastor for “permission” to do anything, whether it be to go on vacation, stay home from church when we were sick, go to a different Sunday school class, or to go to the bathroom! Another of Linda’s lies!
How much do you think we should believe of her speech? Only the parts that affect us (or should I say affect you)???
If you give a speech, and so-called “expose” secrets, you really should tell the truth instead of lying!
No, Sydney, I do not believe things simply because they are reported on the news. However, Schaap’s confession was repeated via his deacons and published in a direct quote by multiple sources. If that was incorrect, the deacons should have demanded a retraction. They have not. Therefore, I think it’s fair (and safe) to conclude, that information is factual and true.
My point, though, was that it’s rather disingenuous to call the media “gossip mongers.” They are reporting the news. If you are unhappy with crimes being reported, then talk to the criminals committing the crimes and request that they knock it off and live law-abiding lives so that the news media stops all that offensive gossiping.
Pleeezzz! Never did I say any media was a “gossip monger.” Maybe you meant that comment for someone else.
I too, saw the press release, both video and print versions. Some of the facts were not correct, but most were corrected, eventually.
Sydney, Ok lets just go with this. If Linda is lying then I would presume that they (the church members etc.) could sue her for slander and I haven’t heard of any lawsuits as of yet so she must be telling the truth. Because basically she is insulting them by saying they had to have permission to do certain things. If it weren’t true then sue her!
Or, maybe they aren’t as vendictive as she is?
Or, maybe they are reading their Bibles, praying, working, or living instead of wasting their time online commenting on stupid comments?
What a waste of time talking to people like you!
You just did!
Not all parents are worthy of honor, Deborah, and those of us who do not honor our parents are not lesser Christians for it. My parents beat me, humiliated me, and called me a slut when I was molested (at age 6). My mother tried to kill me when I was 18. My back is permanently damaged because of blunt force trauma. I do not honor my father (my mother is dead). I do not talk to him. I have no relationship with him, nor do I want one.
I am neither better nor worse than you for that. And I do indeed have family on earth, even though my birth family is no longer in my life. I have a wonderful, loving family in my husband’s family. They have taken me in and loved me whereas my own family never did. And I honor them for it.
Know of what you speak before you speak.
I am so sorry for all you went through as a child. No child should ever have to live that kind of life. However, you are not going around “exposing” all that your family did to you just so you can “feel” better about yourself. It sounds like you have gotten over your past (about as much as possible) & gone on to make a good life for yourself. I’m glad you now have a “family” that treats you good. That’s important. I’m sorry that you think I don’t understand. No, I don’t understand all that happened to you, and I truly am saddened to hear of your situation.
My only point concerning Linda is that she is broadcasting her situation so she can try and make herself “feel” better, at the cost of spreading negatives (whether or not it is true). That’s not the way to “feel” better about yourself. She needs to take it to God and not just spread it so others can feed on the hatred.
Once again, I am sorry you had to live that life. Hopefully, through God’s grace, you can be a much stronger and loving person because of all you endured.
Here’s what I’m hearing: It’s okay to lie, as long as it’s positive, and makes the preacher look good, but it’s a sin to tell the truth if it’s negative, or makes the preacher look bad. That about sum it up?
How about this — It’s best not to say anything!
No, I’m not saying to “cover” or “hide” sin. I am saying, if you know of a wrongdoing, go to the one in charge, or to the one who can actually do something about it, and let them care for it. Then don’t be spreading it around for the whole world to know!
When we were kids, we used to play a game called “Gossip.” We would all sit in a circle. The first person would whisper something in the ear of the second person, who in turn would whisper the same thing to the next person, and so on. When it got around the circle to the last person, that person would then say it out loud. The first person would then say the original statement. We would all laugh uncontrollably at how different the end person’s statement would be from the first.
This game is a perfect example of why we should not be “sharing” GOSSIP. (And “gossip” is not just telling lies, but also truths that hurt others.) Each time the story is told, it is changed a little here & a little there, until the end result doesn’t even come close to the actual event.
If we all take it upon ourselves to “expose” the sins of others, we are acting as God, and well, that’s breaking the first of the 10 Commandments, “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”
Sydney, I’ve not gotten over it. I may never get over it. I have PTSD. My experiences haunt my sleep and wake me up in a cold sweat. I have anxiety attacks if my dad tries to contact me. I am on anti-depressants just to get through my day. Please don’t tell me to take it to God. I do. I have. I always will. But God doesn’t give us more than we can bear, remember? And I guess He thought I could bear this. So I do.
As for being a stronger person, I don’t know. I have no clue WHO I would have been had I not been damaged so badly as a child. I strongly disagree with those who claim abuse makes us somehow better. Abuse robbed me of my ability to trust. It took my ability to connect with people. I’m shy to the point of dysfunction. *shrug* I don’t think it made me stronger. It may have made me more sensitive. It may have made me more capable of loving my children, more able to understand them.
But I’m not a better person because I had horrible parents.
My apologies. I never meant that you are “better” because of the bad that happened to you. I wish it never would have happened. I agree that God only allows us to go through what we can handle, but that doesn’t mean we would “choose” to go through any of it.
I’m glad you think you are a better, more sensitive,more understanding mother. Maybe you would have been anyway.
I was just saying that we can’t just “blame” our past for everything that happens in our future. It sounds like you don’t. I know how pseudo-spiritual it sounds for anyone to tell you to “take it to God.” I’m glad you have, and do. It will, and does, help. We may not see how it does, but God knows. Just stick with it.
I am very sorry any of this happened to you, and don’t blame you for any of it. My prayers do go out to you for a richer, fuller, more prosperous life. God Bless you!
I feel the need to add one more thing: Talking about it doesn’t make a person feel better. In fact, there is so much shame and pain surrounding the abuse, MANY abuse survivors NEVER get to the point where they can say, “I was victimized.” Heck, even the WORD “victim” carries with it a certain stigma and negative connotation.
Most of us who have reached the point of talking about it aren’t doing it to make OURSELVES feel better. We are doing it to reach out to others who have not yet reached that point. We are doing it to try to throw off that stigma, to make connections, to say, “Hey, it’s ok! We’re in this together! I got through it, and so can you!” There may be an element of healing in it (and I am still bothered that you condemn people for healing in whatever manner they need to, even if that healing is embarrassing to the perpetrators or abusers), but that is usually NOT why they are talking about it.
I don’t for a second believe that talking about her experiences has helped Murphrey “feel” better. It’s probably painful and embarrassing and frustrating. But she most likely feels like it can help others, and yes, that may even be empowering. And good for her for taking something so difficult and using it for good. It’s not easy!
Bob Gray, Sr. is out trashing Linda, saying she is bitter- comparing her to the sons in Luke 15. How dare she of all people to declare that “The emporer has no clothes.” He can’t dare face the fact that his idol might not be infallible.
For him and other IFB’s the facts just get in the way of a good image. If Linda is so bitter why did Beverly Hyles move to Dallas, TX and live with Linda when she left Hammond? The other fact is why did both Linda and Beverly join First Baptist Church, Dallas an SBC church where the pastor preaches from the New American Standard Bible, not the KJV.
I do not for one moment think that Linda is bitter, she is tired of seeing the lives of those she loves shackled and ruined by legalism!
Having observed his last several posts it seems to me that Bob Gray is candidating for the pastorate at FBCH. Yeah, that’s what they need!
SBCer, I hope the great Godly Sydney sees your post about Bob Gray trashing Linda so Sydney can go and tell Bob Gray how bitter he is and how wrong he is for his gossip! Oh wait!!! That just applies to us, I forgot!
Linda Murphrey is not bitter. She never mentioned her dad by name. She never mentioned her siblings or mother by name. She never mentioned the name of the church. The screen behind her simply had her name as Linda Murphrey. If she was bitter she would have wanted payback and would have vomitted all of this information out there. But like a lady she stuck with the facts and did not mention names. Who knows why. Maybe to protect the guilty! That’s what a person who isn’t bitter does!
Call it what you want, but there are so many lies in her speech that it should have been labeled as “fiction.”
As one who listened to JAck Hyles for 25 + years, Sydney, you should know a lie when you hear it. Never have I heard a man who was such a hero in every story! (Maybe he was a secret member of the Justic League!) There are plenty of witnesses who testify to the facts of Jack Hyles phylandering ways, not just Linda.
She is simply just another who saw the shameful things going on and was disgusted by it. The difference with her is that she now discusses what they as a family, inside the cover of the four walls of the Hyles residence, went through.
Once again, what I have said are “lies” in Linda’s speech has nothing to do with her family life. I, once again, say that it is her statements about the church, schools & college that are the lies!
You can go back & read what I already said for more.
As for Bro. Hyles being the “hero of every story,” if you were telling the stories, you would be the hero of yours as well! Do you really think we sat there in the pews, hanging on his every word, and thinking WOW! he’s such a hero! Of course not! Most of his “stories” were just that! Stories! If you were under his preaching very long you would have known that each time he told the same story it was a little bit different. That was so he could apply it to his sermon. We all knew! But, we got the point of his sermons, too.
Linday Murphrey = liar
Jack Hyles = creative storyteller
Got it.
Grow up!
The person who mentioned that was commenting on Bro. Hyles being the hero of his stories. Linda is making false accusations against family, church, and members.
Can you tell the difference?
So when a pastor embellishes his stories (lies) it’s ok because he is doing it to make his preaching better??
Pragmatic preaching eh? The ends justify the means.
Are you kidding? Now you people are getting really petty!
You just said that you didn’t know whether she was lying about her family. Now you say quite emphatically that she is. Pick a story and stick with it.
I’m going to say that, considering how her brother David turned out and the fact that JH not only did not deal with it but also moved him around and covered up his messes, there was something seriously awry in her home life. Whether Ms. Murphrey is being entirely honest in her claims or not, I have no way of knowing. But I do know that something clearly went very wrong when it came to her brother.
I said before that I didn’t know what went on “behind closed doors.” I was just addressing what was said in her speech about the church and the people.
Do you also want me to tell you about the basement of the teen center that flooded, the man who fell off the 3rd floor steel beams while building the new auditorium, the ghosts that haunt the college…?
Where does this end???
Why is this video on you pages if it is private?
It wasn’t private when it was posted. Now that someone has hidden it, we’re not displaying it; we’re just discussing what we saw when it was still public.
The folks saying she is boring, bitter, angry ect….can’t imagine that they have experienced or been close to this type of situation.
I’m sorry, Mel, but I disagree. There comes a point when you are angry, so angry, about what has been done that the feeling is almost overwhelming. There is a rage almost, and it can be terrifying to experience, particularly if you have squelched it for years because you’ve been taught not to ever feel anger or to feel anger towards those in authority. Hers may have subsided or even been resolved, but if it’s still there — it’s absolutely within the realm of normal.
I do agree with you as to the comments regarding bitter and boring, however — those are WAY off the mark.
I think I mean that the ones saying her story is untrue because she is angry or bitter or whatever maybe haven’t been abused or close to someone abused in that way? Otherwise they wouldn’t even say that because they would ‘just know’ how stupid it sounds?
Yea I agree abt the anger.
Ah, I see. Yes, then, I agree.
“How about this — It’s best not to say anything!”
In other words, shut up! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! God will take care of it, so there’s no need to get the police involved! Mandatory reporter? What’s that? Don’t let word get out, it would hurt the cause of Christ!
Sorry, I’ve heard those lines too often from evil men who were trying to cover their evil. Somehow, keeping quiet only applied to their critics, not to the people trying to shout them down.
My God is not so weak that He needs JH, JS, or FBCH. Nor is He glorified by covering their sin. Jack Hyles had a habit of lying that has been well-documented. He lied about everything from military service to sermons preached, to Sunday School attendance. The world (or that small corner of the world that is aware of the existence of FBCH) knows there is something wrong there. We’re pointing out that Jesus does not condone the evil. If you think silence is the best plan, take your own advice.
That’s exactly what is being said. And I seem to recall Jesus becoming quite angry at certain business-like behavior taking place in the temple and taking certain steps to handle it rather than quietly cover it up. Something tells me that IFBers would be hurling “Bitter!” at Him as we speak …
WOW! Do you feel better now?
Why would *anyone feel better about this mess?
Great observation! I totally agree!
Only those bent on spreading “bad” news could possibly feel better about any of it at all!
Thanks!
So Syd what would you have everyone do? Just stick their head in the sand and never comment on sin, abuse, corruption, false teaching, lies and the host of other wrongs we have collectively experienced w/in the IFB cult?
You have gone out of your way here to poison the well against Linda Hyles Murphery. You have been on a mission to protect the vaunted view you seem to have of FBCH. You single handedly represent many of the very traits we find so despicable in the IFB. Between your attack on Ms. Murphery, your verbose justifications, and your defence of a Church which allowed and enabled men like Hyles and Schaap to hold such positions of power; your behavior epitomizes the IFB apologist.
Now if your experience within the IFB cult has been a good one that’s great. But stop discounting the experience of those who have dealt with (or lived with) psychopaths in the (home) pulpit, the lies, the coverups, the abuse and other issues that are enabled by the IFB movement and mindset.
“Sydney August 10, 2012 at 4:31 pm
Once again, speaking without knowledge.
For your information, A.V. Ballenger was arrested, tried,sentenced, and served his time in prison.
As for the other situation of the diabled person, I have no knowledge, so I have no opinion!
And when it comes to Jack Schaap, that too is being dealt with–not covered up!
Need to get your facts straight!”
Interesting that you only mention the final outcome of the Ballenger case. You left out Hyles’ attempts to hide Ballenger’s wrongdoing: “The Chicago Tribune in a 1991 article reported that Hyles was sued for $1 million by the parents of the girl molested by Ballenger. The paper reported the “lawsuit claims Hyles and the church had not fulfilled their obligation to ensure that children were protected from harm during Sunday school.” This stemmed from their mentioning the molestation to Hyles who then promised to “investigate”. After two months of nothing being done, the parents went to the police.[7] Furthermore, “the suit, filed last week, claims the minister told the child’s parents that Ballenger ‘just liked little girls,’ and, ‘You don’t have a case.'”[8] Hyles and the church settled out of court.[9] Ballenger was sentenced to five years in prison.[10]” source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preying_from_the_Pulpit
You claim to have no knowledge or opinion about a disabled person being abused. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Hyles#Controversies
Now you can no longer use ignorance as an excuse unless it is willful ignorance.
The deacon board first claimed that Jack Schaap was on “medical leave” and only said they would cooperate with the police after someone ELSE reported JS’ actions to the police. Then they hired a lawyer with a history of covering up wrongdoing in IFB circles and told witnesses to go to him, NOT to the police, a clear case of witness tampering.
Get YOUR facts straight. Do you want to bring up other cases, or shall I?
So nice to know you are so up on all the details of this case. My point in my comments was specifically that, “If you don’t know the facts, don’t say you do.”
Even you have to admit that I did not say what I did not know. And, I would rather stay ignorant about a lot of things that don’t affect me, since I have so many more important things in my life than researching smut!
Smut = pornography, obscenity, etc.
Rape, molestation, etc. = abuse, violent crime, etc.
I personally think the latter is something we all need to be aware of. And I have a REAL problem with calling rape and molestation “smut.” It implies a sexual element and some type of guilt on the part of the victim. There is no sex in violence. JSYK.
I wasn’t referring to the acts of rape, molestation, etc. as SMUT! I was referring to the researching of these types of cases & situations, not so I can help others, but just so I make sure & spread the gossip. Sorry you took it the other way.
Like telling us to shut up? If you don’t know the facts, stop telling us we’ve got them all wrong. When the truth comes out in the papers and on TV, Christians pretending it didn’t happen don’t make Christ attractive to unbelievers.
Google “Jack Schaap” and “Jack Hyles” and see what comes up. It’s only people inside the compound who think any of this is secret. If it doesn’t affect you, why argue about it, especially when you admit you don’t know what you’re talking about?
I was stating the “facts” that I “know” to be “true.” I was not spreading opinions of things I know nothing about, like so many of the posters on here are doing.
At lest we are agreed what the results are if you research FCBH and its previous two pastors.
Filth, perversity, false doctrine, and criminal behavior? Sounds about right. And all in the name of God. And yet they say that those Christians speaking out against it are the ones damaging the “cause of Christ.”
“Sydney August 10, 2012 at 6:02 pm
I wasn’t referring to the acts of rape, molestation, etc. as SMUT! I was referring to the researching of these types of cases & situations, not so I can help others, but just so I make sure & spread the gossip. Sorry you took it the other way.”
There you go again, blaming the messenger! Warning people to stay far away from FBCH is helping them! Christ is not preached there, only a perverted, man-centered doctrine. Not to mention that they might get raped there.
I still don’t understand how she KNOWS Linda M. is lying. After all, she admited she didn’t live in the Hyles house. I would also like to know why Sydney can tell her story of abuse and not be accused of being a liar and being bitter, but Linda Murphrey cannot. I would also ask, why so angry? Why so quick to jump down everyone’s throat and accuse and malign people you don’t know?
Go back & read my post again — I said she was lying about several things, but I also said since she did lie about those things, how do we know if she is telling the truth about her family.
No doubt, we all know about her brother & his escapades. That is common knowledge. However, as said before, no one had to ask Bro. Hyles’ permission to go on vacation. Bro. Hyles did not “own” the church, school & college buildings! The money from the tithes of the church was not free money to his access.
It’s so easy to be hurt & let that hurt turn to anger until it clouds the mind and memories become distorted.
I know FBC is not, nor will it ever be, a perfect church–just like yours. Your church is not perfect because it is run by imperfect, sinful, humans. But, that being said, just because a few do wrong does not mean that the entire body is bad.
Linda has not been in FBC for over 20 years, and yet she states as “fact” things that are so far removed from truth it’s almost laughable!
Go ahead & believe her, if you want. You have that right, but it makes you wonder, when a person gets paid to give a speech & says such outright lies, what’s her motivation, but the money???
Were you there when JH was pastor? Because several people who were have said that he “expected” (read: required) them to come to him for advice on this sort of thing. No, the church, the buildings, and the bank accounts were not in his name, they were listed in the church’s name for tax reasons, but he had absolute control over them. Anyone who disagreed with any decision, and said so, was quickly run out of the church. He set his own salary, controlled the church budget, and disposed of church assets as he saw fit, and expected the deacon board to approve his decisions afterward.
You are angry, why should we believe you? You lied about her being paid to give this speech.
My question to you is: Were you EVER a member of FBCH? It sounds like you are just going on heresay.
I was a member for 25+ years. Bro. Hyles did NOT set his own salary. Every budget item was voted on by the church body, once a year. Yes, there were some decisions that were made (out of necessity) and then presented to the deacons at a later date, but those were very few, and very, very far between. I happened to have been a faithful member, and was in nearly every business meeting the church had in all those 25+ years. I can say with all honesty that you are quite mis-informed.
As for counseling with Bro. Hyles, anyone who was there knows that Bro. Hyles was available for anyone needing counsel (free of charge). He did encourage anyone with a problem to talk to him. Wouldn’t you like to know there was someone you could go to, if you needed advice? In all the years I was at that church I only remember counseling with him once. Bro. Hyles said, on numerous occasions, from the pulpit, “If you would just listen to my sermons, you wouldn’t need to come see me for counseling.” He was a good leader, not a perfect man, but a good leader. I enjoyed (entertainment value as well as spiritually) listening to his sermons. Did I believe every sermon illustration he used? Of course not, but I also knew they were used to emphasize a point in his message.
All this to say, I am not a “kool-aid-drinking” follower of anyone. I respect the Pastor as a human man, appointed by God to lead the church. I don’t “bow down and worship” him, but respect his authority as a pastor. Anyone who thinks of any man as being above God is wrong, and that goes for a pastor as well.
“Trust in the Lord,…and lean not unto thine own understanding.”
Yes, you said she was lying about several things. How do you know? How do we know you are not lying? As for stating facts, she talked about things that happened when she was there, not in the last 20 yrs. You really do have your undies in a bunch, don’t you?
P.S. SFL is my church, and there is more grace, forgiveness, wisdom, and peace here than any other place I’ve been.
Wow! Now who’s got their panties in a wad???
Just so you know, I was there when Linda was there! Not that it matters, but I do know what I am talking about.
You don’t have to believe me–that’s your right. But it’s funny that you believe her, just because she’s a Hyles, and yet you think Bro. Hyles, Dave, Cindy, and Jack Schaap are all liars? Oxy-moron???
By the way, what church is SFL????
I think I could answer having been in a close working relationship with the people involved and I’m saying Linda isn’t telling any lies! Now if someone wants to say she is then please tell me what they are!
Papa Bear, I was not blaming the “messenger.” I was blaming those stating things as “fact” that are outright lies!
Why are you so quick to believe things without any basis at all!? And when we try to “expose” the real “truth” we are treated as the liars???
No wonder the Devil is having so much fun in this world. With Christians arguing instead of fighting together to defeat Satan, we are making his job easier!
“Sydney August 10, 2012 at 6:22 pm
I was stating the “facts” that I “know” to be “true.” I was not spreading opinions of things I know nothing about, like so many of the posters on here are doing.”
For example?
The facts she knows to be true? That we’re all bitter and angry gossip-mongers and hate the IFB.
Opinions that we know nothing about? That Hyles covered up crimes (well documented) and that Schaap had sex with a 16 (now 17) year old girl (which he admitted to).
That pretty much covers it as far as I can tell.
Of course, you’re NOT angry! You’re NOT bitter!
We started this entire discussion because Linda Hyles Murphrey gave a speech and supposedly “exposed” the “secrets” of her family and church, for the purpose of making her happy (as stated in her speech).
As for her family’s “behind closed door” life, only the family and God knows for sure. My objections are in reference to the numerous other accusations she stated as “truth” about the church, schools and college. I have stated over and over, and am not going to state them again, but suffice it to say that with so many of the “facts” being outright “lies” who is to say if any of her speech has any validity at all?
If you want to believe her, please do so. I still say, it makes you wonder what her motivation is for stating so many mis-truths and for wanting so many people to think such bad things about her family.
I am actually very shocked at how many “angry” posters there are on this site. And they call us angry! I guess we are only allowed to have an opinion, or state the facts if we agree with them.
Do you have any idea how silly this sounds? 😆
We’re not angry, we’re laughing at you. You know you’re angry, and you’re not fooling anyone, we know it, too. The reason you’re so funny is that you think you’re original with your accusations and tactics, but we’ve heard (and refuted) them all before.
If you don’t want to be laughed at, maybe you should read this page before posting on this site: http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2011/10/fundy-comment-bingo/
If you are doing anything listed on that page, do not expect to be taken seriously.
Who are you kidding? I have read posts from more angry people than ever! I’m not being laughed at, they are just angry.
Doesn’t anyone else think it funny that you say you believe the rumors “because so many have said it” but you admit that what I am saying has been said many times before.
Now who’s laughing at who?
And yet again, you still do not say how you know her ‘facts’ are ‘lies’. You are not omniscient, omnipresent, or all-knowing. Fraud, tax evasion, abuse, all these things could have happened and you would not have known. You only know as much as JH wanted you to know. Ms. Murphrey knew a little more. Only God knows it all.
And the only truly angry poster here is you. Because apparently you don’t want to believe that someone else might have a different version of events and people than you. Different does not equal lies. Its all about perspective. Try to get some.
WOW!!! Another ANGRY one!!!
Tee! Hee!
You are going to believe what you want to believe w/o any “proof” at all. That’s why so many are going to die and go to Hell — you can’t believe in something they can’t see!
Good luck in your eternity!
So I shouldn’t believe Linda Murphrey without proof, but I should believe you without proof? Not angry, just trying to clarify. Tell me again how you KNOW Linda is lying, and not just giving a different perspective. Also, out of curiousity, you say you were there the same time as Linda; are you the same age range?
I’m a couple of years younger than Linda, more like the age of Cindy.
Wow! Where to begin???
Her speech began like many others, intro, comments, background, etc., then she started the accusations.
First one was that every member was in “complete obedience” to her father. She stated, “They didn’t dare disagree or be disloyal, for fear of being publicly ridiculed, or punished, or banished for doing so.” My proof to you is simply to say that in all the 25+ years there, not once did Bro. Hyles publicly ridicule, punish or banish anyone!
Then, she said members didn’t go on a vacation w/o asking her dad’s permission. I have no “proof” other than, it just didn’t happen!
Next, she stated that if her dad said to “drink Kool-aid” (referring to the Jim Jones incident where his followers drank poisoned Kool-aid & died), she said, “I’m not kidding, they would have.” Well she may have drank it, but I wouldn’t have!
The next several minutes of her speech was about her family, of which I have no firsthand knowledge on most of it, and will not comment.
Then, she gets down to the money part. She said, “I gott’a tell ya, the money part of it was pretty nice. As a kid, I mean think about it: tithes and offerings from 50,000 people. Hello! It created a lavish life style for our family. My father owned most of the city where the church
was. He owned a college, two high schools, two grade schools, a cemetery, lots of buildings; he was very wealthy.” You want proof — guess you’ll have to take this on faith, or common sense, but Bro. Hyles did not have free access to all the “tithes and offerings from 50,000 people.” That money was counted (by the deacons), deposited into the churches bank accounts and dispersed according to the church’s budget. Bro. Hyles did have access to Hyles-Publications’ money, which was money made from the sale of his books, tapes, etc., and of which most was either spent on the ministries or helping many less fortunate.
Yes, the Hyles’ did live a financially nice lifestyle. But, the house belonged to the church (parsonage) until a few years prior to Bro. Hyles death, when the church voted to give the equity that had been building up in the parsonages to each of the staff men living in them, so they would have a house in case of old age or ailment that would prevent them serving on staff. Bro. Hyles’ house was deeded to him after about 40 years of pastoring. In my opinion, that is not excessive.
Brother Hyles did not “own most of the city where the church was.” The CHURCH owned the church buildings. Yes, the church complex is large (approx. 1 city block, at the time of Dr. Hyles ministry), but it was not owned by Bro. Hyles. I believe the cemetery was probably owned by the church, as well.
The schools were self-supporting. The buildings were paid for, in early years, by the church, but in later years by the tuitions from the students.
The college downpayment was paid by the church members raising money. After that, the mortgage payments were paid with tuition money, as the college was self-supported.
Yes, in my mind, I would agree that Bro. Hyles was “very wealthy” as Linda states, but she is trying to say he has done something illegal or dishonest to get that money, and I do not believe it. Once again, I cannot prove that, but God knows.
She goes on to state: “And even into our adult
years, he owned us. He owned our homes, our cars, our furniture, he owned our lives and we didn’t dare cross him because we were too afraid
we’d lose everything.” I’m sorry, but if my father were paying the bills, I would expect to be answerable to him! If she didn’t want to be “owned” as she put it, by Bro. Hyles, she could have chosen to give it up. Once again, money won out!
She stated, “He died a multi-millionaire. He left nothing to his children. He left everything to the organization,…” I’m not surprised that he died a multi-millionaire, but I didn’t know “He left nothing to his children.” Maybe or maybe not. I don’t have any knowledge there.
She goes on in her speech to criticizing the church, how it is run, the rules, loyalty….
I’ll end there because the rest of her speech is just her complaining about how unhappy she was & then she relates her “experiences” to the rest of her “message.”
I don’t know if this makes anything clearer for you, or if it is just more fodder for the fire, but you asked for proof. You can say there is no brick and mortar proof, but I told you the way the church is run, how the people who attend the church are and the untruths that Linda portrayed about the church and the people. What you believe is up to you.
Sydney, your opinions are worthless and void of any facts. If you provide facts to back your assertions, well, maybe someone might believe you. Linda’s facts are first person testimony. And until you have facts to prove her wrong, her testimony stands. So, put up or shut your piehole.
I agree with Bob!
~~~Heart
Dear Sydney,
I’m not wearing panties.
Sincerely, boymom 😈
Sorry, bare bottom!
Bad, Bad, Boymom.
You’re not fooling anyone. You’re still angry, and I’m still laughing! You haven’t read the page I linked, or you would know that I wasn’t saying anyone corroborated your fantasy; I was saying you expect to convince us with the same weak arguments Fundies use whenever they don’t like something.
Poser: If this is a “stufffundieslike” website, why are there so many posters that are fundamentalist haters???
If you don’t like fundamentalists, why don’t you go to the sites you do like?
Wow, I thought even you could figure that out! Darrell posts about something Fundies like (in this case, Jack Hyles) and we say, “Wow! I used to like that when I was a Fundie.” Once in a while, someone will say, “I’m still a Fundie, and I still like it, and you’re all just bitter!” or even, “I’m still a Fundie, but even I know this is wrong/silly/ stupid.”
Well, since you put it that way, I can understand a bit more.
I’ve never been on this site until yesterday, and it seemed like so many of the posters were just angry & couldn’t wait to spread “bad” news.
I didn’t think that so many people who tried so hard to get away from funamental churches would spend so much time just griping, arguing and complaining!
I guess that explains a lot! My mistake!
Did Sydney just tell us to go to Hell? Did she learn that at FBCH?
Really???
First of all, I don’t talk like that.
Secondly, if you misunderstood what I said, I was referring to the blindness you people seem to have in believing what you want, just like the unsaved who won’t believe in heaven because they can’t see it. I never want anyone to go to hell.
You do talk like that. You have no humility and no grace. You are arrogant. You are angry and bitter that someone would dare to criticize your god, Jack Hyles. You judge and condemn. I truly feel sad for you, that you would rail so long and so hard for a man, and not even a good man. A man who spent most of his ‘ministry’ building monuments to himself. Now he is reaping what he has sown. Good-bye Sydney; I pray that someday you will repent of your divisive words, your prideful heart, and your idolatrous ways.
Sorry, but standing up for God is not making a man your god.
Its sad to think you actually believe you are doing this.
First of all. I am not angry at all. I am not an IFB. Never was and never will be. I left my church the minute an IFB preacher took it over. Just because I disagree with you Sydney does not mean I am angry. You have disagreed with alot of us so does that make you angry. I guess basically we can all agree that we disagree. But for YOU to judge me and say I am angry when you have no clue is wrong. I’m not angry at all. It just amazes me that lately everytime I hear about an IFB its because they raped or molested an underage person or they committed adultry. Again I am not angry because I had since enough to get out of my IFB church as soon as I found out what this man was and I praise God for opening my eyes of what an IFB pastor is and what they do.
And let me add also Syndey, You are not acting like the Christian you say you are by the way you are talking to people on here either. Are you above us because you are a better Christian? You are judging us too you know. This is going to be a never ending arguement so again I say it’s obvious that we don’t agree and will not agree on this.
Just couldn’t let it go, could you?
Right back at ya, babe.
My mistake. Of course, you’re NOT ANGRY!
I went to a small IFB church & the pastor called us into his office when he “found out” we were going on vacation(believe it or not we didn’t think to tell him…what business is it of his anyway?) He wanted to know where we were going for how long and what route we were taking. He then gave us a suggested list of other churches that were acceptable for us to attend since we were going to be gone on a Sunday & Wednesday. This is just one instance of him poking his nose where it didn’t belong. Needless to say we got out of there & have not regretted it!
Sorry for your experience, that is not the place of any pastor. The only way that would have been acceptable is if you asked for a list of churches he would recommend. Sounds like you didn’t. What he did has nothing to do with him being a pastor of an IFB church, though. It was totally him, overstepping bounds. Sorry!
In no way am I excusing Schaap’s part in this sordid affair. However, what she did was just as wrong . Did she know he was a married man? Was it CONSENSUAL? Don’t tell me a 16 or 17 year old does not know the difference between right and wrong as well. Both engaged in the act…both are guilty. And it’s interesting that God makes no distinction as to age.
Mike that is about the most idiotic thing I have seen anyone say on here in a looong time.
What you are doing is deflecting responsibility and placing it on the victim.
Yes, victim. If the reports are true she was 16 years old when this began, and if the reports have any truth to them and she was seeking counseling for abuse when this 54(?) year old adult male took advantage of his position, his authority, his position of trust to start his own sexual trist with this teenager.
Mike your comment is just sickening.
And don’t tell me that a 54 year old male who is a master manipulator cannot use his position of trust, his authority as pastor, his knowledge as her confidant/counselor to seduce a 17 year old. Who was the adult in this situtation?
Enough of this damnable crap about “Blaming Bathsheba!”
Thank you, Mike! You are exactly correct! She did know what she was doing was wrong. For a 16/17-year-old girl to have the attention of a man in his position, for her, was thrilling.
However, as a pastor, he should have followed the Bible teachings, and what I have heard taught in every church I have ever attended my entire life, and that is to “avoid all appearance of evil,” don’t put yourself in a situation where something like this could ever happen. Obviously, he wanted it to happen, or would never have “put himself in the situation.”
All of us making comments, whether for or against anything dealing with this situation, does nothing to further the cause of Christ, either. My hope & prayer is for people, not only from that church, but all Christians, to get their eyes off of human man and onto God and his purpose for our lives — bringing people to Him.
Thank you for your comments on this subject!
You’re freaking kidding me? So she’s at fault and all he did was fail to avoid the appearance of evil and he fell into her evil snare? You are a cult idiot.
Sydney had the place on fire yesterday! LOL 🙄
Possibility of a troll?
Bob, Sydney places the blame on anyone but the person who is at fault. And the funny thing is, If we disagree with Sydney the sicko then we are haters and bitter and angry all because we disagree with Sydney. But Syndey isn’t a hater or angry at all, it’s just the one’s that disagree with Sydney. Amazing how pretty much only Sydney is the arguing with everyone on here isn’t it? I think Sydney and the IFB pastors ALL need help if you want my opinion. She was 16 years old and not old enough to make reasonable decisions, that is why they are not called adults. Heck, I think 20 year olds aren’t old enough to make reasonable decisions so these sick IFB’S take advantage of them. And then I saw where Sydney said that just because the pastor was an IFB that wanted to know these peoples business of them going out of town doesn’t mean it had anything to do with him being an IFB pastor. WRONG!!! So far it’s the IFB pastors that I have seen being the only one’s wanting to know the people of their church’s business when they go out of town. I have been in church for 49 years and not one pastor has asked me about my travels, it has only been the IFB Pastors that do this. They are controlling and sick..did I say sick too, oh yeah I did didn’t I. 😆 Can’t UNbrainwash ole Sydney, he/she is too far gone now 😆
I get it; Sydney is a psychic, cause she knows all thoughts and motivations.
What if this is JS! Yikes 😯
Then we’re all screwed.
Yep there it is, “The Cause of Christ” defense. When you have no solid ground on which to base your argument or you find you are talking through your butt-gasket, run the “Cause of Christ” up the flag pole and hope it shames your opponents into submission.
At this point Syd and mike have shown their true colors and have abandoned any pretense of moral superority. At this point I have to wonder how close Jack’s failure mirrors their own for them to attack a child the way they have.
“Butt-gasket” made me snort cupcake into my sinuses. I will get you back for that in our next debate, Don. I really will. And I’m not sharing my cupcake with you, either.
Seems to me God tells people to obey the laws of the land. And the laws of the land (Illinois, certainly) tell dirty old men to keep their filthy paws off 16 year old girls, particularly when they are supposed to be counseling them.
Out of curiousity, do YOU make distinction as to age, or do you paw any female old enough to walk?
Exactly!
Sydney, I love how you turn it around that you have been saying this all along yet I never read where yoou said we are losing our testimony from all this arguing on here. You still are angry at us and yes you are appearing to side with these IFB pedophiles which is wrong or you wouldn’t be arguing with us. You say Linda is lying, how do we know you aren’t lying being as you are or were a member of that church? You appear very bitter and angry but it’s ok because according to you we all are as well. It still doesn’t change the fact that you said that you said the same thing I did yet you continue to be rude to us and angry because we don’t agree with you. I guess no one is going to change anyone’s mind here huh? All I know is I see a pattern of sexual abuse, rape, pedophilism (if thats a word) and brainwashing and control and legalism and the church trying to cover it up everytime I see an IFB pastor come up on the news. Not everyone can be lying about these men when we keep seeing it over and over and over and over. 🙄 I’m not angry or bitter because I have nothing to be angry or biter about. As soon as the IFB pastor took over our church my whole family left so therfore he didn’t have time to do anything to my family because we had sense enough to know to get out of there as soon as he came in. And slowly others are seeing what he is doing and they are leaving quietly too and going elsewhere. In fact I wasn’t even mad that I had to leave because we had only been there about 5 years and never really liked it there that much and was looking for a church when he came in and took it over. The only person I could say that I could be a little upset with would be the deacons for lying to us and not telling us what he was before he got voted in as the pastor. But that was for lying to us only because Deacons should never hide something like that from their congregation and they did.
Where is this video??!!
Its private now. I guess Linda wasn’t making enough money off of it, so she made sure less people could see it.
LOL 😆
I noticed that people are already coming after her on fb, and posting her work information etc. I don’t call it the Baptist Mafia for nothing! You speak out, they come after you, no question.
Someone want to count up the score? Do we have a BINGO?
I think the score is us 6 and Sydney 0 😆
The TRUTH of the matter…..
We exist using judgement every day in order to survive, from the coffee being too hot to drink on up through voting for our president. Judgement is necessary.
We need to judge Jack Schaap in order to have survivors. It’s not casting stones. It’s life. Jack Schaap committed a crime against God, against this child and against a society that trusted his leadership.
He must be exposed, judged and condemned with proper penalties. If this had been done with Jack Hyles, then maybe Jack Schaap would not have crossed the lines ever further by molesting a child. And the truth of the matter is, is that Jack Schaap, a man in his 50’s sexually put his hands on the body of a child of 16.
If you present this scenario without his name, everyone of us would, indeed, judge the man for the infraction and hope to see justice served. So then, there should be nothing of any allowances for leniency or mercy, especially from church members for proper judicial procedures for the actions of Jack Schaap.
From the age of 12 I was brought up under the fundamental dictatorship, attended Christian schools, lived my life for the church, adhered to their stringent rules, attended youth conferences, pastor’s schools, women’s jubilees, Hyles-Anderson College, bus ministry, sou-winning and the list goes on. I freed myself from all that mind and body control. Free yourself. Learn to true meaning of love and life, family and honor, work ethics and pleasure, music and dance, giving and receiving and most of all experiencing the many facets of life by your own discretion without a dictator’s rule where the dictator or dictators themselves live multi-dysfunctional lives!
~~~Heart
<3 your post…sounds like our backgrounds are similar!
Krysten,
Thank you…
I certainly wish that I had never gone through all those years under that leadership. I have friends how that do not understand a thing about this kind of cultish Christianity and I envy them. Their actions are not tainted by the echoing bellows of Jack Hyles rants of “rights” and mostly “wrongs” that he was always disciplining us about!
If I can say anything here, to help clear the way or answer questions from my first-hand experiences, then I am more than willing to speak. I will not be silent about anything!
I must say that I have been hurt deeply by these people, my family has been hurt, friends have been hurt and this isn’t what it’s all supposed to feel like!
I hope that this will help people to free themselves and live good lives!
~~~Heart
Heart – You need to come over to the forums and say hi.
Scorpio,
Thanks for the invite… where are these forums?
~~~Heart
Upper right hand part of the page. Marked Forums. Right above the search bar.
Is there any way to watch the video? When I click on it, it states that it’s a private video. Thanks!!
I’m not sure. I saw it before it went private. Good luck!
I saw FB on the Independent Fundamentalist Survivors page that the Video will be back up in a couple of weeks.
After reading this discussion, I’d be interested to watch the video. If anyone downloaded it and would be willing to send it my direction, my e-mail is theodotos128@gmail.com. Just mention the video in the subject line.
Many thanks!
I tried to read thru the comments here and just wanted to comment mostly on Sydney’s one comment that reads…”First one was that every member was in “complete obedience” to her father.” She stated that Ms. Linda’s statement , “They didn’t dare disagree or be disloyal, for fear of being publicly ridiculed, or punished, or banished for doing so.” is incorrect.
So, Sidney, in the 25+ years there, not once did Bro. Hyles publicly ridicule, punish or banish anyone?”….Pulllleaaaze….when I was a teenager my pastor was a HAC graduate so we went to all of the activities and conferences we possibly could….I clearly remember Dr. Hyles making a public example of a girl who decided to get up to go to the bathroom during one of his “dynamic” messages at Teen Conference, he basically told her to sit down, that she shouldn’t dress like a whore and to go to her youth pastor to “get right with God” for the mini skirt she was wearing, he said this amidst hooping and hollering of “amen’s” from the crowd…That was one of the MANY public bashings that I encountered and I wasn’t even a member – don’t even get my started about LBT and TBC in Texas as this was the college and church I attended for a few years.
Bottom line, the IFB is not God’s saving grace for America…the people who have survived this “movement”, who were hurt and whose heart hurts for people who have been ridiculed, belittled, ripped and abused under these preachers, people who want to love people and treat people the way Jesus did on this earth will be the ones who are used and will help show people the light. Learning and growing and calling out this junk is not bitterness….it’s putting an end to worshipping the biting serpents and believing in the One, true God.
Sidney, I pray that your eyes are opened to some things that aren’t right and that you obtain wisdom and understanding in what is truly being said here on this page.
Krysten, What??? You mean Syndney has been lying to us all this time and didn’t share what he/she witnessed from ole Jack Hyles after being at that churchfor 25 years?? Wow Syndey your credibility just went out the window right along with the rest of the IFB’ERS!! Oh wait,your credibility went out the window on your first comment 😆
Krysten,
I totally agree with all that you said here! Jack Hyles would behind that pulpit as though he was the stern voice of a furious God and the congregation was in such submission and fear.
I too remember events such as you mentioned. While I attended HAC on Sundays there was Question & Answer time when he would answer question from anyone in the congregation. I can recall more than not, the times when humble young college guys or even men from visiting churches would try to get up and ask a question only to be ridiculed by Jack Hyles with return arrogant comments or replies stating that he (Jack) knew the scripture by heart no need to recite it and if you can’t ask the question right then sit down I’ll come back to you when you’re a man.. blah blah blah….
All this to say was that, he was not a patient man, not a loving man, not a humble man and if he could berate a scared individual like that in a crowd of church members who have come to “hail” him… then it is undoubtedly true that he would act that very same way at home!!!
He was at the college one year when he would visit us girls and bring us gifts. We were in the old cafeteria. He was sitting at the top of the stair case at the east end. We were all sitting and eating egg rolls and pop. Well, some of us girls were recycling cans and saw that to be a great opportunity since there were cans everywhere. We were just below him and he saw us gathering empty cans to the center of the table while he was looking on and just commenting to girls across the hall. He saw us and asked us what we were doing. I told him that we were recycling cans and if he would please ask the girls to leave the empty cans on the table and not throw them in the trash that we would clean them up and collect them. He heard me, in fact many of the girls around that immediate area heard me, but he looked at me as though I was ridiculous and waved his hand as though to dust me away and moved on to some other girls who were giving him attention! In a sort of “Aw, I’m sorry he was mean to you let us make up for it and help” way, the surrounding girls all rallied to help us.
All this to say is that, NO… he didn’t have a good heart. He was out for number 1 and such is the case for Jack Schaap and I’ve got to say it, Cindy Schaap! She is not innocent here! She proports to be the first lady of the church. Along with that comes more perks that you can imagine. Any human enjoys “things”. Along the way Cindy’s perspective, being the youngest child of Jack Hyles, has been completely clear and thwarted at the same time. Sure she has learned many truths that she has learned but she has also learned many of the wrong things, such as “knowing” her place under the dictatorship of these men. Surely, in such obedience, she has failed also by turning a bling eye to the goings-on of her dad and especially now, her husband, Jack Schaap, who is guilty of molesting a child!!!
People, please, this abuse needs to stop! This kind of leadership has hurt so many people for so many years! In so many ways it has ruined so many events in my life and opportunities of living that I will never get back. I’m so glad that I walked away from this when I did. If you are thinking about walking away too, please DO IT! I will be your friend and tell you that you will be fine and good and even better for it!!!!!!!
My heart is sad for the victims but my soul is happy that Jack Schaap was found out. I just hope that the authorities will do their jobs right and many children will indeed be “saved” from men like these!
~~~Heart
Hi Sydney. I wasn’t on my computer this weekend so I missed all of what has happened. Let me introduce myself, I am Scorpio. I comment here regularly so I know what you are going through.
The bitterness of the people who comment here is so obvious. Thay are all in denial. I remember in drug rehab once the moderator said denial is not just a river in Egypt.
So anyway, you sound like a Godly woman. Are you single and available? I get lonely sometimes and would like to have a companion for when I listen to old Jack Hyles semrons. They truly bless my heart. Now Jack Hyles, that was a true Man of God. The world needs about 25 more Jack Hyles right about now. It saddens me to hear all of the lies his daughter is spreading.
No one here knows what went on in his house. And who are we going to believe? A bitter woman like Linda, who has an axe to grind? Or someone like yourself who sat under the preaching of Hyles for 25 years?
Speaking of Jack Hyles, I am fully convinced that God wrote this song for Jack:
But “I know Whom I have believed,
And am persuaded that He is able
To keep that which I’ve committed
Unto Him against that day.”
Anyhoos, I have to go now. Monday morning is check in time with my parole officer. I hope to see you on SFL more.
Scorpio,
You are hilarious!
The world is full of followers… people who want to be led exactly like the mice and the Pied Piper… all following him in droves to their demise! Stupid mice!… But we are not mice! You have a human brain! Use it! It’s required of you!
Stop being blind followers! Open your eyes and see the truth for what it is! You will be a much more happier person for it. Of course you will be responsible for yourselves and that means no more resting your responsibilities for thinking on the church and it’s leaders. No, now that you will accept the responsibilities for your own thinking, it will take more work to decide your actions, but at the same time you will be making better decisions rather than just being a follower of men like Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap who were just using the pulpit for their own gains.
Stop… Think.. and Free Yourselves so that you can become the person that you need to be!
~~~Heart
Yeah…
Remember Dr. Hyles sermon “fresh oil”? Remember the very long illustration concerning his “drunkard” father? Remember how he gave specific detail on the beatings his mother received from Jackie-boys mean daddy?
Well….Maybe ole’ Jackie-boy was just “bitter”?
Or…maybe this family just gets kicks and giggles from lying about each other…hmmm
Or…Maybe it’s ALL true…???!!!
You are only suppose to accept an accusation if there is two or more witnesses. So in that case look up on youtube Paula Hyles, In this interview she tells all she knows about the going ons at FBC of Hammond. I was a College student at HAC and a Member. I am not bitter I learned a lot there. Dr. Hyles was probably the wisest man on the earth during his life time. But just as Solomon fell into sin so did DR. Hyles. God blessed Solomon until Solomons death. His family paid the Consequences and I think the same is happening here, sadly. I personally knew one of Dave Hyles friends who finally got his life straighten out. He talked about the Drug use and the Illicit affairs Of Dave Hyles. I hope the curse of the Hyles family is finally over and the FBC can get a Godly new Pastor.
Dr. Hyles was probably the wisest man on the earth during his life time.
Oh, stop. You’re making my sides hurt with all this laughing.
I hope the curse of the Hyles family is finally over and the FBC can get a Godly new Pastor.
I’m sure that would be a welcome change for FBCH.
Dear Reader:
Extemporaneous speech often contains syntactical errors [ex: subject-verb agreement, etc.]. And while this text is close, it does not claim to be a verbatim rendition of Linda Hyles-Murphey’s memorable speech. That said, effort has been made to retain the meaning of the speech in its entirety.
* * * * * * *
My Dad Pastored a Church that Evolved into a Cult “My dad pastored a church that evolved into a 50,000-member cult. It operated and still operates under the guise of an independent fundamental Baptist church. But those who have left, the followers who have tried to leave, the outsiders, even the media (it was on 20/20 last year) recognize that it is clearly a cult.
“Every member was in complete obedience to my father. They didn’t dare disagree or be disloyal, for fear of being publicly ridiculed or punished or banished for doing so. They didn’t go on a vacation without asking my dad’s permission, and if he had said to drink the Kool-aid, I’m not kidding, they would have.
“My dad lived a double life, one of a righteous family man and of a dynamic speaker in the public eye, but [another] one of sordid sexual secrets privately, secrets that only my siblings and me and my mom knew. He hated my mom. Hated her. Treated her terribly. Abused her. And even turned his own children against his mother. We hated her. He told us she was crazy. We thought to make him happy, we would hate her too. Our home was so full of turmoil, hatred, stress, strife, and as a little girl, it was isolating, it was intense, and it was frightening. He had affairs. He had a mistress for many years, the wife of a Sunday School teacher. He built her family a beautiful home right around the corner from our house. You could see their family from our back door. It was craziness, living one way, preaching another.
“My older brother became another version of my father. He pastored a church in Texas and was found to be having affairs with 14 different women. He divorced his wife and married one of the 14. My father tried desperately to cover it up. He moved him to another church where he was found to have had 17 affairs with different women, and he just recreated what he had seen my dad live. And my dad did nothing but cover it up. I felt like I had one main responsibility as a child. It was simple, but daunting, and that was to keep all the secrets, and there were so many.
“You see, he had taught us that the best way to please God was to please him, because he was God’s man. He taught us that to please him we had to keep all the secrets. We could never even tell our best friends what went on in our home, because we might be the cause of the destruction of his ministry. I LITERALLY FEARED FOR MY VERY LIFE if I ever talked about my Dad’s ministry, or about went on in our home, for fear that it would hurt his ministry. I was so afraid, and the greater the secrets, the greater my fear, and the greater my determination to keep quiet.
“I got to tell you that the money part of it was pretty nice. As a kid–think about it, tithes and offerings from 50,000 people, hello–it created a lavish lifestyle for our family. My father owned most of the city where the church was. He owned a college, two high schools, two grade schools, a cemetery, lots of buildings. He was very wealthy. And even to our adult years, he owned us. He owned our homes, our cars, our furniture. He owned our lives, and we didn’t dare cross him, because we were too afraid we would lose everything. He died a multi-millionaire. He left nothing to his children. He left everything to the organization, which my younger sister and her husband now lead. And they still perpetuate his legacy: the strict rules, the undying loyalty, and they still try to keep all the secrets.”
I never understood, why was I the only one of the four kids, so tortured by the hypocrisy, so disturbed by the mind control over thousands and thousands of people, and so determined to find a better life? Why was I the only one that insisted on answers to my questions? And why was I the only one that ultimately broke away and cut ties with the brainwashing and the oppression, the fear, the secrets, and the life that had never been my life?
I finally walked away when I was about 28 years of age, then being estranged from my entire family. And I did not see my family again until many years later at my Dad’s funeral.
OK see what I mean? Not a story to share at a dinner party. I really got to the point after I left there that I couldn’t talk about me. For one thing, who would understand? For another thing, it was too hard. It hurt too bad. So I made a mental note in permanent marker that said, ‘must never talk about my life.’ And for many years, I didn’t, I couldn’t.
However, wonderful things have happened through the years … therapy, a lot of therapy. Deprogramming. Freedom from the mind control. And I began to heal and learn and accept and forgive. And even learn to be thankful for that bizarre life that I had because I realized, I was learning some amazing lessons not only for being there, but for having the guts to leave. And I now have values that are deeply carved in my very soul from that experience, values you don’t get from reading a book, or from a workshop, or another person, values that are only this deeply engrained when you live where I’ve lived.
Because my Dad was a cult leader, I now embrace three values, and on one will ever take these away from me. The first one, freedom. Freedom to explore my own interests. Freedom to live within my own value system, freedom to determine my own value system, freedom to believe what I believe and never stifle what I believe, freedom to disagree, freedom to ask questions and require honest answers, freedom to learn who I am, and freedom to love who I am.
The second value was truth. I learned pretty quickly that I wasn’t going to be very free until I dealt with what was true. And that was hard for me. Truth was a scary word for me, because my entire life, I had never been allowed to speak of what went on in our home. I have never told even my best friend what went on in our house. Being truthful was one of the scariest things I could think. I learned that secrets grow in the dark, but when exposed in the light of the truth, they start to lose their power.
Mary Vernon, my dear, amazing therapist in Dallas Texas who nurtured me and who loved me through years and years of healing – she used to say to me, ‘Linda, you’re only as sick as your secrets.’ So I stopped keeping secrets. And as scared as I was in my late 20s, I finally began to deal with what was true. I finally began to speak what was true. And I eventually learned how to live openly only in truth.
And the third value, was courage. Did you know that you actually can’t have freedom or truth if you have no courage? Courage is a requirement for both. You may desire to live in complete freedom, complete truth, but if you’re lacking in courage, you will live in neither one. In my late 20s, I had a tiny shred of courage. Not much, but it was all I needed because my desire to live and be free and honest was so great that the tiny shred of courage I had was enough to allow me to walk away.
I had a plaque on my desk that I have had for years, and its gone with me wherever I’ve ever moved. It says, ‘the secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom is courage.’ And that resonated with me. I knew I wasn’t going to be happy unless I was free, but I knew I wasn’t going to be free unless I could muster up the courage to get out of there.
I had to cling to and act upon that tiny shred of courage in order to finally leave a cult. The only friends I’ve ever known, my childhood connections, my history, my family, knowing that in doing so, I would finally have what I had longed for my entire life, and that was freedom, truth.
Freedom, truth, courage – three words that may be trite and overused for some people. To me, they are the air that I breathe, values that I insist upon living and loving in my life.
Oh, and one other thing that I actually now value? Sharing my story. Talking about me. Who would have thought. I now recognize that it’s in sharing my story that I can so passionately share with you my values, values gained from 28 years of in an emotional prison that kept my heart under lock and key, and kept my mind from knowing what I knew.
You know I sometimes wonder if perhaps living in the absence of our values is what can most clearly determine what indeed our values are. And for me, I really believe that the absence of and the denial of created the presence of …
For so many years I was denied freedom, truth and courage. And now, I will never let them go.
Not to worry, you’re still not going to find me at a dinner party, talking about my childhood. Not going to happen. You won’t find me sitting around, elaborating over my father who took a wonderful church and turned it into a 50,000 member cult. I still know that’s still a mood killer. I get it. But, you will find me here, and in other appropriate settings, especially if I can help somebody, talking about my life with sincere gratitude for all that I’ve learned, in spite of, and because of living in the absence of freedom, truth and courage. And thank God I now have, I now am, all three.
* * * * * * *
[Based on Linda Hyles-Murphrey’s testimony at the 5 April 2012 TEDxOjaiChange event in Ojai, California].
Christian Socialist
Can’t we just all get along here and LOVE one another like we’re supposed to…!!! No, seriously, I’ve read about 80% of the posts here and all I can say is we’re all entitled to our own opinions – be they factual or not. It has made for interesting reading. However, my side of it is this — I and my wife were both raised in IFB churches, both were in one way or another associated with Hyles, Pennell, Rice, Roloff, etc. and I will bottom-line the whole story and ALL the sordid details by saying this >>> ANY so-called church, in ANY denomination, that puts man’s word above God’s, man’s rules above God’s, man’s commands and expectations of others above God’s IS A CULT. Period. No explanation needed, no splitting of hairs needed. Period. I’ve been in the trenches ALL MY LIFE and have seen the extreme casualties of what man has done in bringing up their children based on what another man or group of men, or congregation says, whether it’s another church member or the IDIOT at the pulpit. And it IS a CASUALTY. There are so many screwed up people out there as a result of ALL types of religions and denominations and it’s sad, very sad. People were not created to be put in a box any more than God Himself is to be put in a box. Unfortunately, man’s pride and ego take the forefront in their ability to make wise choices on how they live and lead at the expense of others. I’m not saying ALL denominations or religions do this, but some do and those who have been in that unfortunate group have to deal with the damages the best they can through therapy, counseling, medication, healthy relationships, and most of all by God’s grace. I think society in general are good people – saved and unsaved. They mean well, they want well for their families – BUT, church-people and so-called Christians have tainted who God really is through their consistent Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is: the state of pretending to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie. I’ve seen it ALL my life. Can you blame those lost as a golf ball in tall grass for not wanting anything to do with church? I can’t. Not at all. Why bother?
The same goes with Legalism. Legalism, in Christian theology, is a usually-pejorative (derogatory) term referring to an over-emphasis on discipline of conduct, or legal ideas, usually implying an allegation of misguided rigour, pride, superficiality, the neglect of mercy, and ignorance of the grace of God or emphasizing the letter of law over the spirit. Legalism is alleged against any view that obedience to law, not faith in God’s grace, is the pre-eminent principle of redemption. Man, leadership, etc. have added to God’s expectations of us and are very clever at twisting the truth, adding their own opinion or interpretation, and are usually very talented (through their own nurturing) in manipulation and control over others and circumstances. I’m quite frankly sick of it and I would have to believe God is too. It’s not who He is.
Yes, we remember these men:
Tiger Woods
J.F. Kennedy
Ted Kennedy
Jesse Jackson
Bill Clinton
Jack Hyles
Roman Polanski
MOHAMMAD
Me…
I totally agree with all that you said. My iPad was having a few glitches that sent that list inadvertently. But I totally agree with your comments!
In particular, I agree with your comment that most people are good-hearted! It’s just sad that this type of cult brings to mind and to the surface, the error of their ways, the sins of the flesh, and cause them to judge themselves and others so harshly that they need approval and acceptance and reassurance on a weekly basis from the very source that causes them a warped sense of “being”.
As I have said before and I will continue to reiterate, it is essential to know yourself, be responsible for yourself and in turn seek out the truths for your life. Don’t base those boundaries on the dictatorship of one man. I mean, look at the tyrants of history, for example the Inquisition and HItler for that matter!
While those entities were unavoidable, well, in today’s age, we have choices. Make the right choices for your life and the lives of the children of whom you are responsible!
Don’t succumb to the Pied Piper way of living! You will only find that no man can care for you nor care for your family better than you can care for them yourself! It all is in your hands and the outcome of happiness both here and your future will be based upon what decisions you and you alone, make for yourself.
My wish for everyone here, is that everyone would take the time to re-evaluate the way in which they make decisions and on the real truths. Really give it some thought and bring yourself to find the goodness of every aspect of your life.
Understand the sweetness of a baby’s cry, requesting nurturing. Remember the growing pains of adolescence. Be insightful of the quarrels of individuals which can be a display of affirmation of a self-importance that in turn will develop into confidence. Know the admonition of an elder who, though brass, may only have your best interests in mind because of their own journey through life. Enjoy sex, marriage, song, dance, and the thrills that lighten your heart as a human being! These are all gifts!
I wish you wellness without harsh judgement upon yourself or others!
Live, Love, Laugh, Sing, Dance and add to that list……….
~~~Heart
It’s interesting how easily misled people can be by someone on a platform or in a position of leadership. Just because a person is speaking from a pulpit or platform, or a particular office doesn’t mean it’s all truth or to be adhered to. Nor does it mean they are an authority on the subject either… we all need to WAKE UP.
The fact of the matter is that Linda told us of her life within a fundamental independent cult that portrays itself to its members and others as having a holiness above “the world”. This image was used to manipulate and influence people. It is a revelation when the curtain is ripped top to bottom and the truth about this cult is actually seen. All the KJV bibles, women wear skirts, women are to be submissive to their husbands etc. doesn’t cover up the truth that these people are just as worldly or worse than non-IFB Christians. As far as the money. His salary is a number on paper. How many love offerings, cash gifts were paid to the man over the years, who paid for his house, his cars, his trips and so forth. I’m sure that there would be a big surprise if someone went through the books if they could get through the FBCH defensive line.
So every time I try to watch this video it says it is private.. is there a way to watch it any more?
Let’s see how Jesus dealt with the sins of religious leaders:
Matt 23
1 ¶ Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
13 ¶ But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?”
Anyone still going to say that the sins`of the ‘man of god’ should be kept quiet??
It’s amazing! Any first year law student could blow this lady out of a courtroom. But here on this site, her testimony is taken seriously. She is the best defense witness yet. Please, keep talking, Linda.
She’s not on the stand and this isn’t sworn testimony.
She’s using her own recollections as best she can to tell her story. Just like all of us do.
Really? So you are seriously saying that we should believe her gross exagerations and believe them because she did not take an oath? The point is obvious. She is exageration blatently on many simple facts. Should should believe she is not exagerating on the others? Really?
And how do we know you are not exaggerating, hmmm.
If the choice is whether to be believe Linda or her father the right revered, Doctor-Brother-Lord Hyles… ummmmm, I’ll take Linda everyday of the week. If you want to apply your legal standards to something substantive then go take a look at Daddy Jack’s responses to his accusers in the Nischik affair.
You mean Vic Nischick, the homosexual who had trouble at FORD and loose his positions, deaconship, and wife the year before his attack? Or Bob Sumner the one who got doinked from the Sword of the Lord for Curtis Hutson? They would be shark bait for any good lawyer. So, I’ll gladly take you up on that.
Your indoctrination into the IFB cult is complete if you are going to use Cutis Hudson as your appeal to authority. 🙄
Do you have any evidence that Vic a: worked for Ford? b: That he was a homosexual? (standard opperating procedure for discrediting someone in the IFB.)
That was exposed as a false attack back in 1989 with the “Biblical Evangelist” articles. Btw. Vic did leave a lifetime job with GM to go to work for the House of Hyles. So you get a half credit for getting his work experience in the auto industry correct.
Edward, you are so right! But, a bit of words to the wise — Don’t waste your time trying to tell the truth to these people. They are so blinded by their hatred of FBCH & IFB that they don’t want to believe the truth. They will choose to believe the lies over & over because it fuels their hatred. Most of them were never FBCH members and have no idea of how the church operates. Truth will win out in the end, but there’s no need trying to expose the truth on this site. They are only interested in the lies that serve their cause! Good luck trying to convince the angry mob!
You again!?!
We didn’t need to be members of FBCH in order to recognize how the IFB cult works. Many of us came out of clones of the House of Hyles.
Maybe someday God will remove the scales from your eyes. I pray it is sooner rather than later.
Edward, the reason I believe her mostly is because the woman’s husband and children that Hyles was having an affair with have all said he did some of these things that she speaks of that they know about. So they too have said the same thing of what they were involved in.
I’m not exaggerating! I told you 50,000 times!
How exaggerating! 😉
Oh, and did anyone know what her daughter did? Can you imagine! Her daughter decided that Momma Linda was a weirdo and ended up back at HAC. So, if a daughters word is right, than let’s believe Linda’s daughter!
Her daughter, the granddaughter, was seen on double-dates with Grandma and Grandpa over and over again. So, let’s see. Momma thinks Gpa is and abusive cult leader, but daughter goes back to the cult. Makes sense to me!
Edward, you have the “least” say because, you weren’t there. 😉
I was there.
So… you have a vested interest in keeping a lid on what was going on under Jack Hyles then? What was your part in the cover up? What else are you trying to keep under wraps there Eddy?
And why didn’t momma Linda ring the bell of cultic abuse when her sweetie ran off to HAC! That would have been the time to make a stink if you asked me.
Those dudes tried for years to catch Jack Hyles and they never did. They hired PI and guess what! Nada! One good ole Vic writes his book after spending how many years sleeping in the other room? If, by some insane reason that were true, he is the biggest fool who ever lived. Think People! How can you put yourself under the influence of a “man” who claims he had to sleep in the other room while his wife had an affair for many years. Ug!
Jack never answered the substance of the accusations but always deflected and misdirected in an attempt to obsfucate and muddy the issue.
We do not buy into the cannonization of St. Jack Hyles. Given his shallow biblical teaching it is not a stretch to see his personal life was a sham as well.
Vic served as a deacon all those years, too. Yes, he certainly did. And if that stuff were happening then he is directly responsible for not exposing it in the hundreds of deacons meetings he attended. I believe he was working at FORD when he got in trouble for homosexual activity. He last all his positions and his wife. And then, suddenly, he comes forward with bizarre story. Good grief!!!!
I recently called Mrs. Hyles just to see how she would react. She had nothing but the sweetest things to say about her husband and how he treated her. If that woman was abused, she is the greatest actor in history, she told me she knew he was really sick those last few days because he was sitting with his Bible, but not reading it. From the mouth of the wife!
The deacons sided with Hyles because they knew Vic Nischik. That’s the bottom line.
Comments are closed.
A silly blog dedicated to Independent Fundamental Baptists, their standards, their beliefs, and their craziness.
I grew up with a HAC graduate as a pastor who basically “forced” me to go to Hyles-Anderson (It may sound silly that someone could force you to go, but when everyone in your family is told you have to go and they follow what he says, you are forced).
My 2-3 years there were awful. I attended college with Jacklyn Schaap/Weber and her husband Todd. I never made the “in” crowd with them, but I just couldn’t handle everything that was there.
I hid myself, my sexuality, and left depressed and sad. I am now a person happy with myself and happy to be who I am. 🙂
If you’re stuck, now is the perfect time to get out and be happy with yourself. This video is a shining testimony of a successful person who escaped madness. Kudos to Linda 🙂 ❗
I don’t believe that is true of any ministry. And if the church ever had 50,000 members, thousands of those were bus kids. The suggestion that he was the recipient of all of the tithes of all of those people is also not realistic. To operate the buses, buildings, staff (even if underpaid), and all of the daily expenses would keep it from all accruing to him. “he left it all to the organization”? Ministry property belongs to the ministry, not to the individual. Sorry, this story doesn’t ring true at all.
What about the stories of the dysfunction in the home? The sexual affairs of Hyles and his son? Any of that ring true or are you just ignoring it?
You just keep your head in the sand Joey.
No, Scorpio. No head in the sand. I don’t have access to personal family information. But I do have a lot of years in the ministry and I do question the accuracy of her statements in that area. It affects the credibility of other things she says. When a part of your cult-case is built on the financial practices, facts are more relevant than false insinuations.
I have never been a student at HAC, nor do I have a loyalty pledge of any kind. My comment only pertains to the video above.
I haven’t seen the video yet, but from your comment on it I don’t think she meant he literally received every penny.
For example, I would say my boss gets the money when we receive a check from a job we do. And yet most of it is dispersed into overhead, paychecks, insurance, etc etc. He gets it because he’s the head of the company.
again, this lady is boring
joey is the only reasonable one here. her credibility has been pooped on
You may not believe that is your right but don’t condemn the speaker Linda Hyles I was there during the time she talks about and sold and installed a set of walnut kitchen cabinets in the home of Jack Hyles. I was in some of the same classes as she was in collage. Did I know of all the things going on at the time? NO but looking back now I can see it. I always thought Linda always had a far away look in school.
As for 50,000 members they would have had many more I’m sure and no they were not all bus kids. When I left to go back to IL after having been there as part of the first class at the collage they had over 23,000 in attendance every Sunday. The first week I attended 6 years earlier there average attendance was 4,500. So please find out the facts before opening you mouth!
Linda wasn’t saying that all the tithes & offerings came to her family. But being the head of the church, Jack would have had a massive salary that would have come out of those offerings.
Also, she meant his personal wealth was willed to the organization and not the family.
What–do you think she was making all of this up?
Just so you know. I was a member of that church for 25 years. I saw the budgets, that the church members voted on each and every year. I believe the most Dr. Hyles made (in salary from the church) was aroung $35,000. That was after nearly 40 years as pastor. The majority of his money (which he gave large amounts to helping others) came from his books, sermon tapes, etc., which was under the unbrella of “Hyles Publications.” All I can say is that Linda is a very sad & angry woman. Would any of us want our families “dirty laundry” aired for all to see? After all, “a good name is rather to be chosen than great riches.” Speaking of which, how much was Linda paid for her “dumping on the family” speech???
Of course his salary was only 35 K. Tax reasons. There are all kinds of ways to get rich in a mega-ministry besides “salary”. Salary is the last way you want to obtain your money.
“A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches” is completely misapplied to this situation. Are you suggesting the verse refers to covering up the lies and abuses within your family in order to obtain a “good name”?
How sad for you to be so jealous of anyone making money that you have to make it sound illegal or immoral. If you knew anything about the tax structure, you would know that if his intentions were to stay in a lower tax bracket, it could have been as much as $49,999.
Don’t get me wrong. Of course, I’m not for covering sin. However, it does no one any good to broadcast other’s supposed “sins” just to make yourself feel better. Linda doesn’t look better because of this. She looks like a bitter, sad woman. If it be true that the kids got no inheritance, maybe she is angry about that as well.
It’s easy to spread this kind of poison when a person is dead and has no way to refute the accusations.
Whether they be true or false, this is still just gossip!
Is that what it is Sydney?? She is bitter? That’s what all of you IFB’S say when someone leaves or exposes one of you. I believe with all my heart that she is telling the truth because she was there and she lived with him. You don’t know what goes on in someone’s home unless you live with them. And with what he just got in trouble for, YES I believe she is telling the truth, she has no reason to lie!
No, I did not live in the Hyles house, however, neither did you!
She lied about so many other things she said in her speech, so why would you think she is telling the truth about her family?
Every family has secrets. Some worse than others, but the very fact that, at her age, she feels the need to “expose” those secrets is a sad thing, especially since her dad has been dead for 11 years now. I would rather people think good of my family, even though they may have skeletons in their closet. But obviously, Linda thought it would make her look good to tell the world. It didn’t. Yes, she is bitter!
Like I said before, whether it be true or not, it is still gossip!
There you go again with the BITTER word. Amazing how you IFB’S throw the bitter word because that’s all you have. Im glad you want people to think good of your family which could be a lie…that’s what IFB’S do is lie, it’s all they know! But the bible says “Your sins will find you out” So his sins found him out!! And who would better know than the one who lived with him? I admire her strength for being able to tell what these IFB’S are and how they destroy in Gods name. I really don’t see the point in arguing about this because if what all that is being said weren’t true then there would not be a whole list of IFB’S preachers in jail for rape and molesting children, ya think??!! Not to mention the preacher Schaap who is about to go to jail for the same thing. They are some sick sick people and God is going to come down hard on them!
I’m glad God has more mercy than you do, or we would all be in Hell without any chance of Heaven!
By the way, you sound pretty BITTER as well! Guess that’s why you would side with anyone who would try to tear down another, at all cost!
I am not for covering sin, but God will take care of that.
And what is this “IFB” all about???? Why do you assume that everyone who wants to preserve a family’s name is and Independent Fundamental Baptist??? After all the Bible speaks very strongly of having a good name and most of the time that was said of people who had committed, what we would call, huge sins!
I’m so sorry that your “god” is so small that it takes people telling of other’s sins to be able to have those people “punished.” My GOD is so GREAT that HE and HE ALONE, knows ALL, sees ALL, and certainly is able to “punish” ALL, as HE SEES FIT! It doesn’t take a BITTER person spreading GOSSIP for God to know what to do.
By the way, Robin, I happen to know of several other words that would apply to Linda. Words like self-entered, angry, frustrated, mad, holding grudges, belittler, self-righteous, and the list can go on and on. Just because I chose the word “bitter” doesn’t mean I have no other words to describe a person who would get paid to give an entire speech to a group of people with one sole purpose in mind–so-called “expose” the family secrets so she can “feel” better about herself. I happen to think that God can help a person “feel” better by allowing them to confess all things to Him. We don’t need to confess them to the world to “feel” better about anything. All that does is stir up strife. God is a God of order, not disorder & this is another trick of the Devil to try to hurt the cause of Christ. Read your Bible!
You didn’t live in the Hyles house, and Linda did, but she is the one who is lying. You know this how? And not every family has secrets. Secrets like these should be exposed. Especially if the person is dead. Because such a person received their accolades when they were alive, and now let the truth be known so that others may know them for who they really were and stop worshipping their memory. Jack Hyles’ sin finally found him out.
Blah blah blah bitter, blah blah blah gossip..c’mon give us something better than that. Proove to us she is lying and only then will I believe you. Look at the record of the IFB’S, it pretty much speaks for itself, Linda doesn’t even have to say anything about her father, it’s pretty much known! BTW Gossip is spreading lies about someone to hurt them. Linda is not doing that, she is telling the truth and I believe God put it in her heart to come out and tell the truth and God will protect her because He wants everyone to know what kind of people these IFB’S are!
Again (and I feel like I’ve said this a million times), there’s a difference between anger and bitterness. Victims feel anger over their violation, and they want justice. That is NOT bitterness. That is a normal, natural, HEALTHY part of the grieving/healing process. Bitterness, otoh, is a desire for vengeance and a want to hurt others — often anyone and including the innocent.
If you don’t know the difference, don’t accuse people of being bitter. Actually, stop accusing people of being bitter anyway. It doesn’t serve a purpose, and it’s hurtful. If people are bitter, they are already hurting. Why hurt them further? Just to make yourself superior? Well, wtg — you’re superior. Here’s your sticker.
Oh, so sorry! Please let me rephrase — I think Linda Murphrey is angry AND bitter! How’s that? Does it cover all the bases now???
Here’s what sums it up: No one is allowed to comment on any sins of those at First Baptist Church or any other “Man of God,” but you are allowed to tell all of us that we are wrong and that Linda Murphrey is bitter and angry.
Strange you feel that way. I guess that’s the purpose of this site. If we all were in agreement, there would be no need for discussion.
Exactly, Warren Buffet (Multi-Billionair) only takes a 100K salary a year.
A word regarding Hyles Income, according to his own statements referenced in the “Biblical Evangelist” articles.
Follow the money…
I feel sorry for you. You seem really bitter against Linda. You should spend some time praying about your harbored hurt, and then go to her and apologize or you’ll never have fellowship with God.
I have nothing to apologize to Linda for. I am sorry for her. I’m sorry that she has let her hatred of her family feed on her so much that she has a need to try and tear down others.
Anyone who thinks the Hyles family is perfect is wearing blinders. On the same token, try following what Jesus said about the accusers in the Bible when He said for them to remove the beam from their own eye before the splinter in their neighbors.
You don’t have to broadcast other people’s sins & shortcomings to try and elevate yourself. If she feels bad about herself because of others, she should get her eyes off people & on Jesus. He can take care of the problems she has encountered. It’s not for her to be the “reporter” of everything bad in her family. And by the way, do you really think it makes any of us better Christians by knowing what other Christians have done wrong??? (And in this case, as so many others, things they may or may not have done?)
If we, as Christians, do not stand up for Christians and for the cause of Christ, WHO WILL???? Certainly not the unsaved, nor even the haters of “IFB.” Love the sinner, hate the sin. Don’t be judge & jury. God will take care of that!
Sydney — there is a time and a place to “stand up” for other Christians. Christians who are unrepentant in their behavior and actions do not need others to “stand up” for them and indeed would probably prefer other Christians to NOT stand up for them. Truly repentant Christians and Christians who have been victimized by others — those are the ones for whom we should be standing up.
That’s what Jesus did. Like you said — get your eyes on Him, and learn from His actions.
Thank you for pointing that out. I agree we should be standing up for the repentent, however, we also should not want all the good that has been done for the cause of Christ to go down the toilet on false (or even true) accusations that have already been addressed. The lies Linda told about her father “owning” the church, the schools & college buildings, along with his having access to all the tithes from the church, among so many other things she said are simply that, lies! If anyone believes those things, they are ignorant about how a church operates. What went on “behind closed doors” of the Hyles house are things that are between them and God. I am not justifying any sins, or covering any wrong, but I am saying that it does more harm to the furtherance of God’s Word than it does good in “exposing” peoples’ wrongdoings, all to make one person “feel” better about herself.
We, as Christians, bickering about such things allows the Devil to back off & go fight someone else who is actually doing a good work for Christ. We Christians are doing the Devil’s work for him!
None of us will ever know the truth until we get to Heaven, so I think it best to let God take care of the exposing and punishing of sin–after all, He is so much better at it than we are! Wouldn’t you agree????
Again, God DID take care of the exposing! He used Linda to do the exposing! How can anyone say he did good work for Christ?? Molesting and or raping a child and or having an affair is doing good works for Christ??? Nope, don’t think so! It’s people like you that make me want to quit church all together and just stay home. Thank God I have a wonderful church family that keeps me grounded in my Faith in God and not man! We Christians are the reason alot of non Christians won’t come to know Jesus!!!
Robin, you totally hit the nail right on the head! We Christians ARE the reason a lot of people won’t come to God! That’s my entire point!
By Linda sharing her supposed horrible past, it will be used by the Devil to poison the minds of some who may be wanting to turn to Christ, but now they will be hinder in doing so!
By the way, Linda said nothing of “molesting” or “raping.” What are you talking about?????
I think why most of here have a hard time with your desire to just let God deal with it and not say bad things about other Christians, is that we grew up in churches where other Christians were maligned all the time. Whether they were other denominations, contemporary Christian musicians, or pastors who expoused Calvinism, they were denigrated and vilified, even if they proclaimed the Gospel of the sinfulness of man, Christ’s virgin birth, the vicarious atonement of Christ’s death, and His physical resurrection.
They were proclaiming Christ’s Gospel, but because they weren’t IFB, they were criticized and judged even if they didn’t commit sins like adultery.
So it seems hypocritical for IFB pastors to ask people to overlook their own sins. It’s like the ungrateful servant who was forgiven a huge debt himself but then wanted to throw a fellow servant in jail over a small amount of debt.
Good point!
In my life I have attended a myriad of Baptist churches. Each of them seemed to be critical of the others. Missionary Baptists didn’t like the General Baptist, who didn’t like the Southern Baptists, who didn’t like the Independent Fundamental Baptists, and so the circle continued. I guess, maybe through my upbringing, I was “brainwashed” (as some of you seem to think) into thinking for myself, questioning authority if it was against the Bible, and standing up for other “good” people (no matter what denomination or religion they were). So, maybe a lot of the ideals people have concerning Independent Fundamental Baptists doesn’t necessarily apply to me.
I agree that there are things taught in every church that are “humanistic” in value, but that doesn’t mean that EVERYTHING in ANY church is wrong. There are wonderful leaders and members in FBCH. There are sweet, kind, wholesome, godly people there. It saddens my heart that there are so many hateful people, most of whom know nothing about FBCH, that lump all the people in with the few.
If we lived in Utopia, no church would have even one sinner! But face it, folks, this world is not Utopia. There are sinners here! I know this really bursts a lot of pios bubbles, but yes, it’s true!
Just because there are sinners, and sin should and will be punished (by God), it should not be covered or hidden. After all, God put it in the Bible that things done in secret shall be revealed for all to see. That does not, however, give us the authority to be the “expose all” “tell all” “reporters” of every wicked deed ever done!
When the church found out of the recent situation, they immediately dealt with it. Now we have hundreds, yea, even thousands of “reporters” spreading the bad news, just as fast and as harshly as they possibly can! (And they don’t even have their facts straight.) That is not the business of us Christians! We do not have to know all the details of any goings-on in the church. We have to trust that God knows and is dealing with it in His time and in His manner. If you feel your church is not as it should be, go to God and He will lead you to the church that is best for you.
Thank you for letting me voice my opinions on this subject.
There have been numerous cases of child molestation and even rape occurring at FBCH over the years, most of them covered up. Google A.V. Ballenger, for example. There was a case in the early 90s of a disabled girl who was repeatedly raped. And now Schaap and his 16-17 year old victim.
It’s a pattern. A pattern that repeats over and over and over again …
Once again, speaking without knowledge.
For your information, A.V. Ballenger was arrested, tried,sentenced, and served his time in prison.
As for the other situation of the diabled person, I have no knowledge, so I have no opinion!
And when it comes to Jack Schaap, that too is being dealt with–not covered up!
Need to get your facts straight!
Where in the world did I say A.V. Ballenger’s case was covered up? I didn’t. I said *most* cases there were covered up. I did NOT say HIS case was covered up.
Yes, Dear, You did say “most” but you referenced A.V. Ballenger (check your post at August 10, 2012 at 3:25 pm). In case you forgot, here’s what you said:
“There have been numerous cases of child molestation and even rape occurring at FBCH over the years, most of them covered up. Google A.V. Ballenger, for example. There was a case in the early 90s of a disabled girl who was repeatedly raped. And now Schaap and his 16-17 year old victim.
It’s a pattern. A pattern that repeats over and over and over again …”
Maybe you didn’t mean that A.V. Ballenger’s case was covered up, but that’s what I understood your statement, “Google A.V. Ballenger, for example.” in your comment to have meant to you.
And, for another uninformed patron: Jack Schaap did not “molest” a child. He had sex with a 17-year-old girl. No, I am not excusing him. Nor am I saying it was right in any way, shape or form, but please don’t lead people to think he was molesting a child. And, by the way, this situation is not being “covered up” or “hidden” at all!
First, there is no need to patronize me.
Second, he began having sex with her when she was 16. It was not an affair. It was abuse. Anyone who really, truly thinks that a 54 year old married pastor having sex with a 16 (or 17) year old girl he is counseling for sexual abuse is just A-OK needs to have his or her head examined. It’s an abuse of power and an abuse of position, not to mention just plain old adultery.
He abused her. There is no two ways about it, and by continuing to insist he didn’t, you (and those like you) are a part of the problem, not the solution. You (and those like you) are making excuses for him. You (and those like you) are working to make it sound “not so bad.”
But it IS bad. It’s horrible. Most people reel back in horror at what he’s done. And while what he’s done may not be a crime in Indiana, it IS a crime in Illinois, where he dragged her across state lines. And it may also be a crime in Michigan, where he also dragged her. Oh, and it’s against federal law to traffic minors across state lines for sexual purposes.
So what was that you were saying about him not molesting her?
Oh, that’s right. It was “just an affair”? Bull. It was abuse.
Call it what you like, but you need to go back & re-read what I said. I was not making any excuses for anything done. But, you, on the other hand, are making it sound as though he was forcing himself on little grade-school age girls, and that is not what happened. It is not just “bad,” it is an abomination! It is a horrendous sin and should, and will, be punished.
I take offense at your incenuation that I am making it sound less “bad” than it is. I don’t. If this were Texas, I feel the father of the girl had every right to take matters into his own hands.
It does nothing to help anyone by us arguing about the symantics though. The accusations were addressed & the evidence was presented. Steps (within the church) were appropriately taken. And everything has been turned over to the authorities.
For those of you who think FBC didn’t do enough…well, there is no changing your opinions–and you have a right to those opinions, just like I have a right to mine. Let’s just leave it at that!
Incidentally, Sydney, in my post, since you’re so careful to read (what you want to read), I stated quite clearly that Schaap’s victim was 16-17. I never stated that he molested a CHILD. Perhaps you need to read a bit more carefully next time.
Here’s my direct quote: “And now Schaap and his 16-17 year old victim.”
How you get “little girl” out of that is beyond me.
That said, 16 (and 17) is extremely young — and in most states, a 16 year old is statutory rape (RAPE, including in Illinois, where a 50+ year old man having sex with a 16 yo girl would be a rapist and have to register as a sexual offender).
The man is sick. (And that is MY opinion, based on facts.)
Really, Sydney? You need to read Matthew 23 and tell me Jesus was not talking about the corrupt religious leaders and calling them out in public. Clearly you think you are in a position to preach at us here. 🙄
Tammy, Not sure what you expect. I was concisely stating facts. Who was preaching? Any of the comments made on this site could be considered “preaching” and all we are doing is voicing our opinions, and some facts (and fiction) I don’t even know why you responded to this in the way you did.
It has been my experience, that if I agree with the majority of you, I’m right. If I disagree, then I’m wrong. You all have a right to condemn me, but I have no rights at all. Guess this is a good reason for staying off these blogs. Too many angry people with their minds so set in stone that there is no changing them, even with the truth!
Good night!
When the Bible talks about having a good name, it is NOT advocating preserving a good name by hushing up the evil one does and pretending it didn’t happen. A good name is created by good behavior; a good name is preserved by good character, not white-washed over with cover-ups.
A good name means nothing if it is based on lies.
The “good name” I was referencing was Linda’s. She is destroying her name by being so vendictive.
Sydney is so brainwashed that he will NEVER see! That’s what they do, they brainwash people, I have seen it! And you can tell these people the truth and they are so brainwashed that they will make excuses for them. Sydney if it were your child that was raped or malested (sp) by this man or any other IFB pastors that are in jail now for that, I bet the tables would turn. Oh but these people are just bitter liars until it happens to you!
Sydney is so brainwashed that he will NEVER see! That’s what they do, they brainwash people, I have seen it! And you can tell these people the truth and they are so brainwashed that they will make excuses for them. Sydney if it were your child that was raped or malested (sp) by this man or any other IFB pastors that are in jail now for that, I bet the tables would turn. Oh but these people are just bitter liars until it happens to you!
None of us really knows what we would do, or feel, in any situation unless it actually happened to us. But you are right, I think I would want to “kill” the person who would rape my child. Guess we should all move to Texas!
If I am brain”washed” I guess that means you are brain”dirty” and should be “washed.” Pretty interesting–anyone who has a different point of view is referred to as being “brainwashed.”
Syndey, it’s a known fact that IFB pastors brainwash people just ask all the one’s that have left that cult and the first thing they say is how they were brainwashed.
Robin, “it’s a known fact” is pretty presumptuous! How about saying “it’s a known opinion” since a “fact” has to have basis and the only basis you have for your accusations is opinion!
You too are throwing out the “cult” word. Well, let’s put it to a test. I googled the definition of “cult” and here’s the first listing’s definition:
Cult – Noun:
1.A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
2.A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
So, according to that definition, it sounds like Jesus Himself was in a CULT. People thought of Him as having “strange” or “sinister” practices. He was a part of the “veneration” (or feeling of respect for a person — i.e. God the Father)
I think I would rather be affiliated with Jesus’ CULT than critical of those who oppose Him.
And your “facts” are coming from those who “left” FBC. People leave churches for many reasons. Some move away, some get their feelings hurt and leave, some don’t agree with the teachings, etc. Not everyone will like any church, of any persuasion! That’s another trick the Devil uses to keep people from going to heaven. The more he can deter the cause of Christ, the more the Devil has won his crusade.
Think about it before you judge others!
Sydney, you must somehow be related to this sick pedophile or you would not be defending him. A member of a church where I live where an IFB took it over was told by the IFB pastors child that his dad (the pastor) lies because he has too. And besides he can lie because he is the pastor. His on father told him that because he is the pastor he can lie. And I have seen ALOT of cover-ups or where the church has tried to cover up these sick sick pedophiles. I feel sorry for you because you are so blinded and act as if its ok for him to have had sex with this 16 year old but that because he committed adultry then it was wrong??!! Sorry but a 54 year old man having sex with a 16 year old to me is sick and considered a pediphile and rapist as far as I am concerned. It’s not just about adultry. And how do you expect for God to have people find out about these sicko’s if someone doesn’t come forward. Do you think they are going to just tell everyone voluntarily?? I just don’t understand your thinking and I would not want to be a part of a church where something like that went on and I’m sure alot of the members are very nice Godly Christians but I also bet the majority are brainwashed too by these IFB’S.
No, I am not a member of that family. I do not attend that church any more. I live thousands of miles away, and I am not for covering sin.
What in your wildest dreams would possess you to even think I would approve of this kind of behavior? Obviously, you have not read any of my posts, or you would know that I am 100% for this being punished, dealt with swiftly and completely! I am never for anyone abusing another person EVER!
It’s so easy for you to throw out the word “sick” when you have nothing but contempt for others who don’t agree with you. And weren’t you the one who was saying that IFB were always using the word “bitter?”
Sydney, it’s people like you that make me not want to go to church anymore. And to be honest with you, if there is a non Christian out there reading all this mess, then we all arguing have ruined OUR testimony and it will only push them further and further from God. The reason I said you must be a relative of his is because the way you are acting about all of this. All of this name calling and judging is NOT going to bring anyone closer to God and yes that goes for all of us. It is what it is and he is going to pay for what he did as will and did the others that have done these horrible things. But again what should we think about someone who doesn’t know God reading all this arguing and bickering. I am to the point that even I don’t want to go to church anymore myself! Again as I stated in a previous comment, if she is lying then sue her!! I have not heard of any lawsuits so therfor I believe that she is telling the truth but all this arguing is not going to bring a non Christian to church, it will probably run them further away because of all of our arguing and bickering and accusations. I’m sure you would agree with me on that!
Funny, but I’ve been saying that since I first got online today. All I got in response was comments like I was covering up sin, hiding sin, siding with pedophiles, and being called names, etc. I guess some of what I said did rub off on at least one of you posters. Arguing between Christians does nothing but harm the cause of Christ. Good night! And God Bless!
I don’t think she dumped it was time to wash the laundry!
I know you know me if you attended church there I started the blind department there.
this lady is quite boring
Much like yourself.
One of the remarkable things about Linda coming forward is that now, several other children of IFB pastors who sinned sexually are speaking out on her Facebook wall.
The granddaughter of Jim Vineyard, the son of Wally Beebe, the daughter of Bob Gray of Florida, and the daughter of one of the Smith guys who is the brother of the Smith married to Becky Hyles, have all thanked Linda for speaking up. They’ve all expressed similar experiences with their dysfunctional IFB dads.
I guess they’re all lying and bitter, too. 🙄
Pearl, you just named a few, there are no telling how many others that haven’t spoken up because they are too afraid. I wish everyone who has been molested and or raped by these sick IFB’S would come forward so that they can be put away for a VERY long time! These people make me sick to my stomach. It’s not bitterness, it’s called telling the truth. I notice that the IFB followers throw the bitter word out there because they can’t think of nothing else to say. They may not pay for it on earth but they will surely pay for it when they meet God because God says not to hurt any of his children.
It’s funny how much hatred YOU people have against “IFB.” I am all for predators, of any race, creed, religion, etc., to be punished for their sins. However, the hatred in YOU people seens to ONLY be focused on “IFB” sinners! Look at your own peers. How many of them have committed the same sins as the ones you are so willing to crucify? HUH????? Never did a study on them, did you???? Or, is it that you don’t care about them being punished, just the “IFB”??????
I don’t have hate for the IFB. I hate their sin and that is what we are supposed to do. Hate the sin! But you are so about hiding this mans sin that it has consumed you and made you as sick as they are 🙂
I’m sorry you feel that way, but I am not for covering any sins. I am for allowing God to uncover & punish the sins, as HE sees fit! All we are doing is following the Devil in his fight against God!
I don’t have hate for the IFB. I hate their sin and that is what we are supposed to do. Hate the sin! But you are so consumed about hiding this mans sin that it has consumed you and made you as sick as they are 🙂
Robin, Robin, Robin, you know nothing about me. You assume (because you hate IFB) that I am covering sin. That simply is NOT true. I am, however, saying that God knows better than man how and when to punish sin.
I’m glad for God’s grace. If it weren’t for His mercy and grace, we would all burn in Hell! If it were up to so many of the posters concerning this matter, there would be no way for us to go to Heaven. God punished sin, with mercy and grace. Even though we say we want “justice,” that only applies to “others.” We want “grace” and “mercy” when it comes to our sins being punished. Ain’t God GOOD!
Well, after all, this is the Stuff FUNDIES Like site, so pretty much, yeah, it’s only going to be about the IFB. If you want to go to find people healing from other kinds of abuse, you should probably visit other sites.
Totally understood. But my point is that the way so many posters (on this site) sound, you would think the only place anything bad, like this, ever happens is in IFB churches. No stats have been taken as to how many cases there are in any other walks of life. Not that I would want there to be any cases, in any walks of life, but I think you catch the drift.
Ummmm, there’s a reason for that. I don’t think there are “official stats” for any particular denomination.
But without official stats, I can tell you that in my personal experience, I’ve known approximately 150 non-IFB pastors. 1 of them has so far turned up as someone with an improper sexual interest in children.
I’ve known, or known of, about half that many IFB pastors. So far we’re on 20 and counting.
Thanks Pearl as I said before it was time to wash the laundry!
Is this video available at another site. It is not available on youtube any more.
Dangit. The video has gone private. Does anyone know if it’s available anywhere else?
Dear Michelle M:
I downloaded the video in question to hard drive because nothing on the internet permanent. I’m new here and don’t know the policy for posting e-mail addys, or whether a policy exists. Perhaps Darrell would be willing to accept the file and pass it on to you.
Another question is, ‘who uploaded the video file to YouTube.’ Where the file has ‘gone private,’ I can’t confirm whether it was Linda herself or another party. If it was Linda’s account, I think that integrity requires that we respect her wishes. Of course others may well have downloaded it also. And it may be uploaded on other accounts.
I wonder if this video went private after pressure or threats were brought against this girl because she found the gumption to stand up for herself. Equally possible [pray it be so] is that she has reserved this as a ‘private’ resource for other women and people on the inside, who are contacting her now that she has told her story. If she indeed desires to have such a ministry [God knows it is needed!], she will need to do so in an environment that precludes the attacks that will come inevitably because she has spoken up for herself [and others].
SourceForge has a number of free programs which are malware/adware/freeware, including YouTube Downloaders.
Christian Socialist
Michelle:
A correction to the antecedent post … What I meant to say was ‘malware/adware/spyware-free freeware.
Christian Socialist
I was wondering what kind of site would have downloads of malware and adware available! 😛
Better to be “boring” than unkind and cowardly, doh. If you were so bored, why did you post three times to insult her? You’re obviously hiding behind some agenda.
Can somone either tell me where I can see the video or what it says or if there is a written transcript of it? Every time I try it says Private and won’t play. I would be so thankful.
Dr.Hyles was the most generous person I have ever had the privilege of meeting. He was not perfect and none of us are. He helped me to understand the Bible and God more than anyone ever has! His heart was genuine! Dr.Hyles laid up his treasures in heaven not on the earth! Shame on anyone who would disrespect a man who has been dead for years and not honor his memory…his daughter is the same bitter person she has was before her dad ever died! We only have one family and they may not be perfect, but its the only one you have and you should honor your parents-that is Biblical!!! Shame on you, Linda! You will reap what you sow!
Can you IFB’S come up with ANY other word than bitter? Is it all you can think of?? Why would you expect her to honor his memory when he put her through a horrible childhood. He doesn’t deserve any honor whatsoever! These IFB pastors act one way in public and a whole different way at home where the public can’t see. The bible does say we should honor our parents but it also says “Your sins will find you out” You people quote scripture to suit your needs, typical IFB. I don’t have to really say a thing about these IFB preachers they pretty much hang themselves eventually and that’s why a whole bunch of them are in jail for child molesting and rape. And yet you defend these people? I wonder what the bible says about that??!!
Robin, I have said over and over that I am not covering the sin. I believe in sin being “found out” and dealt with. I believe that, if we are “saved” even though our sins are under the blood of Christ, that those sins still have consequences. What I am saying is that, “who appointed Linda as the sole source of judgement?” There are so many things in her speech that are outright lies, and yet, because a few things she said about her family stirs the fires of hatred in you people who dislike “IFB,” you are willing to jump on her bandwagon and add to the hatred. Sin is sin, and sin will be punished. Gossip is sin, and it too will be punished. By the way, look it up. Gossip is not just limited to spreading lies, but in spreading anything that can hurt people.
Leave alone anything else: how do you know what she’s saying is a lie?
Most of what I heard her reference was her personal experience knowing her father intimately as a member of his household. Are you a member of the Schaap family?
Please tell something she said that was a lie?
I don’t think you can!
If “Dr.” Hyles was the most generous person you ever met, then your world must be very small indeed.
Again, you saw the Sunday morning Dr. Hyles. She lived with JACK 24/7. YOU are being judgmental about information to which you could NEVER be privy. I lived with an alcoholic who pointed a gun at me; NO ONE would have ever believed me if I had told them. Because in public he was a completely different person. YOU have NO idea what she lived through. So SHUT UP. When victims speak up, and her story is corroborated by other people’s accounts, you should be ashamed that you were associated with the perpetrator and didn’t see the abuse.
Tammy, you are living with blinders on if you think that we see the REAL person in ANYONE at all times. I’m sorry for your having to live with an alcoholic. I too, have a past. My dad was a philanderer & had such a vicious temper that on numerous occasions, I was beaten, as well as my brothers, sister & even my mother! However, I found God. I was saved when I was 11 years old. Today I live my life, hopefully to glorify God. I am a happy, healthy, normal person. I don’t fall back on the past in my life as a crutch for anything I don’t like about me now. It’s up to me, with God’s help, to make my life count for good. I don’t spread all the bad things that happened in my home when I was growing up. My dad was not my only obstacle–I also had two brothers who raped me repeatedly. I don’t want people feeling sorry for me. I turned to Christ & let Him remove the anger I had toward those things. I don’t hold a grudge. I love my brothers. My dad has been dead for many years now, but I don’t go around telling what he did so I can “feel” better. That’s just stupidity.
It’s great that you can move beyond all that. But you don’t really have the right to look down your nose at other victims who have not yet gotten to that stage of the healing process, and you should be ashamed of yourself for doing so. Healing is a PROCESS, not something that someone can just DO and accomplish suddenly, with a snap of the fingers. Sometimes it takes years, with or without God and prayer.
Hope if you have kids, you are keeping them away from those brothers of yours. Pedophiles don’t change. Even with God’s help.
Just because it takes time to heal doesn’t give anyone the right to destroy the work of so many while they are in the “process” of healing.
You say “looking down my nose” but you are so adamant that the so-called “guilty” be punished. Isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black???
By the way, we don’t live anywhere near my brothers, so you can put your mind at ease, and thanks for caring.
How is that the pot calling the kettle anything? I haven’t committed any crimes. Those who have committed crimes and victimized others most assuredly need to be brought to justice. It’s absurd to demand that victims simply forgive the crimes without expecting some sort of repentance, retribution, justice. Certainly, Jesus may have died for our sins, but God also commanded that we be in subjection to governmental authority. Those laws are there for a reason.
Jack Hyles may not have directly victimized anyone, but he sure as anything covered up his son’s actions as well as many of his church member’s. There is plenty of evidence to go around. And that’s not even getting into this Schaap mess.
Once again, I am not for “covering” or “hiding” any sins. I am for telling the wrongdoing to the one in charge, or the one who can do something about it, and then not spreading the “gossip” to others.
How is that the pot calling the kettle anything? I haven’t committed any crimes. Those who have committed crimes and victimized others most assuredly need to be brought to justice. It’s absurd to demand that victims simply forgive the crimes without expecting some sort of repentance, retribution, justice. Certainly, Jesus may have died for our sins, but God also commanded that we be in subjection to governmental authority. Those laws are there for a reason.
Jack Hyles may not have directly victimized anyone, but he sure as anything covered up his son’s actions as well as many of his church member’s. There is plenty of evidence to go around. And that’s not even getting into this Schaap mess.
So your issue is with the news media, correct? Because they’ve pounced on this Schaap thing like a cat on a mouse. Is that gossip, or is that news?
Oh, so you’re one of those who believe it because you heard it on the news????
How many times have reporters “reported” incorrect information!
No, I am not “pouncing” on the news media. I am saying that we, as Christians (assuming you are) should follow the guidelines set up by God, in the Bible for dealing with such things.
If we find wrongdoings, we should report them to the one who can correct the problem, and then not spread the gossip around. Whether or not true, it still is gossip.
By the way, here’s another bit of “gossip” for your coffers.
I just went back & re-read the transcript from Linda’s speech. Funny thing, but she also lied about people having to “ask her dad’s permission before going on vacation.” Maybe staff members needed to make sure their area would be covered in their absence, but we never had to “ask” the pastor for “permission” to do anything, whether it be to go on vacation, stay home from church when we were sick, go to a different Sunday school class, or to go to the bathroom! Another of Linda’s lies!
How much do you think we should believe of her speech? Only the parts that affect us (or should I say affect you)???
If you give a speech, and so-called “expose” secrets, you really should tell the truth instead of lying!
No, Sydney, I do not believe things simply because they are reported on the news. However, Schaap’s confession was repeated via his deacons and published in a direct quote by multiple sources. If that was incorrect, the deacons should have demanded a retraction. They have not. Therefore, I think it’s fair (and safe) to conclude, that information is factual and true.
My point, though, was that it’s rather disingenuous to call the media “gossip mongers.” They are reporting the news. If you are unhappy with crimes being reported, then talk to the criminals committing the crimes and request that they knock it off and live law-abiding lives so that the news media stops all that offensive gossiping.
Pleeezzz! Never did I say any media was a “gossip monger.” Maybe you meant that comment for someone else.
I too, saw the press release, both video and print versions. Some of the facts were not correct, but most were corrected, eventually.
Sydney, Ok lets just go with this. If Linda is lying then I would presume that they (the church members etc.) could sue her for slander and I haven’t heard of any lawsuits as of yet so she must be telling the truth. Because basically she is insulting them by saying they had to have permission to do certain things. If it weren’t true then sue her!
Or, maybe they aren’t as vendictive as she is?
Or, maybe they are reading their Bibles, praying, working, or living instead of wasting their time online commenting on stupid comments?
What a waste of time talking to people like you!
You just did!
Not all parents are worthy of honor, Deborah, and those of us who do not honor our parents are not lesser Christians for it. My parents beat me, humiliated me, and called me a slut when I was molested (at age 6). My mother tried to kill me when I was 18. My back is permanently damaged because of blunt force trauma. I do not honor my father (my mother is dead). I do not talk to him. I have no relationship with him, nor do I want one.
I am neither better nor worse than you for that. And I do indeed have family on earth, even though my birth family is no longer in my life. I have a wonderful, loving family in my husband’s family. They have taken me in and loved me whereas my own family never did. And I honor them for it.
Know of what you speak before you speak.
I am so sorry for all you went through as a child. No child should ever have to live that kind of life. However, you are not going around “exposing” all that your family did to you just so you can “feel” better about yourself. It sounds like you have gotten over your past (about as much as possible) & gone on to make a good life for yourself. I’m glad you now have a “family” that treats you good. That’s important. I’m sorry that you think I don’t understand. No, I don’t understand all that happened to you, and I truly am saddened to hear of your situation.
My only point concerning Linda is that she is broadcasting her situation so she can try and make herself “feel” better, at the cost of spreading negatives (whether or not it is true). That’s not the way to “feel” better about yourself. She needs to take it to God and not just spread it so others can feed on the hatred.
Once again, I am sorry you had to live that life. Hopefully, through God’s grace, you can be a much stronger and loving person because of all you endured.
Here’s what I’m hearing: It’s okay to lie, as long as it’s positive, and makes the preacher look good, but it’s a sin to tell the truth if it’s negative, or makes the preacher look bad. That about sum it up?
How about this — It’s best not to say anything!
No, I’m not saying to “cover” or “hide” sin. I am saying, if you know of a wrongdoing, go to the one in charge, or to the one who can actually do something about it, and let them care for it. Then don’t be spreading it around for the whole world to know!
When we were kids, we used to play a game called “Gossip.” We would all sit in a circle. The first person would whisper something in the ear of the second person, who in turn would whisper the same thing to the next person, and so on. When it got around the circle to the last person, that person would then say it out loud. The first person would then say the original statement. We would all laugh uncontrollably at how different the end person’s statement would be from the first.
This game is a perfect example of why we should not be “sharing” GOSSIP. (And “gossip” is not just telling lies, but also truths that hurt others.) Each time the story is told, it is changed a little here & a little there, until the end result doesn’t even come close to the actual event.
If we all take it upon ourselves to “expose” the sins of others, we are acting as God, and well, that’s breaking the first of the 10 Commandments, “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”
Sydney, I’ve not gotten over it. I may never get over it. I have PTSD. My experiences haunt my sleep and wake me up in a cold sweat. I have anxiety attacks if my dad tries to contact me. I am on anti-depressants just to get through my day. Please don’t tell me to take it to God. I do. I have. I always will. But God doesn’t give us more than we can bear, remember? And I guess He thought I could bear this. So I do.
As for being a stronger person, I don’t know. I have no clue WHO I would have been had I not been damaged so badly as a child. I strongly disagree with those who claim abuse makes us somehow better. Abuse robbed me of my ability to trust. It took my ability to connect with people. I’m shy to the point of dysfunction. *shrug* I don’t think it made me stronger. It may have made me more sensitive. It may have made me more capable of loving my children, more able to understand them.
But I’m not a better person because I had horrible parents.
My apologies. I never meant that you are “better” because of the bad that happened to you. I wish it never would have happened. I agree that God only allows us to go through what we can handle, but that doesn’t mean we would “choose” to go through any of it.
I’m glad you think you are a better, more sensitive,more understanding mother. Maybe you would have been anyway.
I was just saying that we can’t just “blame” our past for everything that happens in our future. It sounds like you don’t. I know how pseudo-spiritual it sounds for anyone to tell you to “take it to God.” I’m glad you have, and do. It will, and does, help. We may not see how it does, but God knows. Just stick with it.
I am very sorry any of this happened to you, and don’t blame you for any of it. My prayers do go out to you for a richer, fuller, more prosperous life. God Bless you!
I feel the need to add one more thing: Talking about it doesn’t make a person feel better. In fact, there is so much shame and pain surrounding the abuse, MANY abuse survivors NEVER get to the point where they can say, “I was victimized.” Heck, even the WORD “victim” carries with it a certain stigma and negative connotation.
Most of us who have reached the point of talking about it aren’t doing it to make OURSELVES feel better. We are doing it to reach out to others who have not yet reached that point. We are doing it to try to throw off that stigma, to make connections, to say, “Hey, it’s ok! We’re in this together! I got through it, and so can you!” There may be an element of healing in it (and I am still bothered that you condemn people for healing in whatever manner they need to, even if that healing is embarrassing to the perpetrators or abusers), but that is usually NOT why they are talking about it.
I don’t for a second believe that talking about her experiences has helped Murphrey “feel” better. It’s probably painful and embarrassing and frustrating. But she most likely feels like it can help others, and yes, that may even be empowering. And good for her for taking something so difficult and using it for good. It’s not easy!
Bob Gray, Sr. is out trashing Linda, saying she is bitter- comparing her to the sons in Luke 15. How dare she of all people to declare that “The emporer has no clothes.” He can’t dare face the fact that his idol might not be infallible.
For him and other IFB’s the facts just get in the way of a good image. If Linda is so bitter why did Beverly Hyles move to Dallas, TX and live with Linda when she left Hammond? The other fact is why did both Linda and Beverly join First Baptist Church, Dallas an SBC church where the pastor preaches from the New American Standard Bible, not the KJV.
I do not for one moment think that Linda is bitter, she is tired of seeing the lives of those she loves shackled and ruined by legalism!
Having observed his last several posts it seems to me that Bob Gray is candidating for the pastorate at FBCH. Yeah, that’s what they need!
SBCer, I hope the great Godly Sydney sees your post about Bob Gray trashing Linda so Sydney can go and tell Bob Gray how bitter he is and how wrong he is for his gossip! Oh wait!!! That just applies to us, I forgot!
Linda Murphrey is not bitter. She never mentioned her dad by name. She never mentioned her siblings or mother by name. She never mentioned the name of the church. The screen behind her simply had her name as Linda Murphrey. If she was bitter she would have wanted payback and would have vomitted all of this information out there. But like a lady she stuck with the facts and did not mention names. Who knows why. Maybe to protect the guilty! That’s what a person who isn’t bitter does!
Call it what you want, but there are so many lies in her speech that it should have been labeled as “fiction.”
As one who listened to JAck Hyles for 25 + years, Sydney, you should know a lie when you hear it. Never have I heard a man who was such a hero in every story! (Maybe he was a secret member of the Justic League!) There are plenty of witnesses who testify to the facts of Jack Hyles phylandering ways, not just Linda.
She is simply just another who saw the shameful things going on and was disgusted by it. The difference with her is that she now discusses what they as a family, inside the cover of the four walls of the Hyles residence, went through.
Once again, what I have said are “lies” in Linda’s speech has nothing to do with her family life. I, once again, say that it is her statements about the church, schools & college that are the lies!
You can go back & read what I already said for more.
As for Bro. Hyles being the “hero of every story,” if you were telling the stories, you would be the hero of yours as well! Do you really think we sat there in the pews, hanging on his every word, and thinking WOW! he’s such a hero! Of course not! Most of his “stories” were just that! Stories! If you were under his preaching very long you would have known that each time he told the same story it was a little bit different. That was so he could apply it to his sermon. We all knew! But, we got the point of his sermons, too.
Linday Murphrey = liar
Jack Hyles = creative storyteller
Got it.
Grow up!
The person who mentioned that was commenting on Bro. Hyles being the hero of his stories. Linda is making false accusations against family, church, and members.
Can you tell the difference?
So when a pastor embellishes his stories (lies) it’s ok because he is doing it to make his preaching better??
Pragmatic preaching eh? The ends justify the means.
Are you kidding? Now you people are getting really petty!
You just said that you didn’t know whether she was lying about her family. Now you say quite emphatically that she is. Pick a story and stick with it.
I’m going to say that, considering how her brother David turned out and the fact that JH not only did not deal with it but also moved him around and covered up his messes, there was something seriously awry in her home life. Whether Ms. Murphrey is being entirely honest in her claims or not, I have no way of knowing. But I do know that something clearly went very wrong when it came to her brother.
I said before that I didn’t know what went on “behind closed doors.” I was just addressing what was said in her speech about the church and the people.
Do you also want me to tell you about the basement of the teen center that flooded, the man who fell off the 3rd floor steel beams while building the new auditorium, the ghosts that haunt the college…?
Where does this end???
Why is this video on you pages if it is private?
It wasn’t private when it was posted. Now that someone has hidden it, we’re not displaying it; we’re just discussing what we saw when it was still public.
The folks saying she is boring, bitter, angry ect….can’t imagine that they have experienced or been close to this type of situation.
I’m sorry, Mel, but I disagree. There comes a point when you are angry, so angry, about what has been done that the feeling is almost overwhelming. There is a rage almost, and it can be terrifying to experience, particularly if you have squelched it for years because you’ve been taught not to ever feel anger or to feel anger towards those in authority. Hers may have subsided or even been resolved, but if it’s still there — it’s absolutely within the realm of normal.
I do agree with you as to the comments regarding bitter and boring, however — those are WAY off the mark.
I think I mean that the ones saying her story is untrue because she is angry or bitter or whatever maybe haven’t been abused or close to someone abused in that way? Otherwise they wouldn’t even say that because they would ‘just know’ how stupid it sounds?
Yea I agree abt the anger.
Ah, I see. Yes, then, I agree.
“How about this — It’s best not to say anything!”
In other words, shut up! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! God will take care of it, so there’s no need to get the police involved! Mandatory reporter? What’s that? Don’t let word get out, it would hurt the cause of Christ!
Sorry, I’ve heard those lines too often from evil men who were trying to cover their evil. Somehow, keeping quiet only applied to their critics, not to the people trying to shout them down.
My God is not so weak that He needs JH, JS, or FBCH. Nor is He glorified by covering their sin. Jack Hyles had a habit of lying that has been well-documented. He lied about everything from military service to sermons preached, to Sunday School attendance. The world (or that small corner of the world that is aware of the existence of FBCH) knows there is something wrong there. We’re pointing out that Jesus does not condone the evil. If you think silence is the best plan, take your own advice.
That’s exactly what is being said. And I seem to recall Jesus becoming quite angry at certain business-like behavior taking place in the temple and taking certain steps to handle it rather than quietly cover it up. Something tells me that IFBers would be hurling “Bitter!” at Him as we speak …
WOW! Do you feel better now?
Why would *anyone feel better about this mess?
Great observation! I totally agree!
Only those bent on spreading “bad” news could possibly feel better about any of it at all!
Thanks!
So Syd what would you have everyone do? Just stick their head in the sand and never comment on sin, abuse, corruption, false teaching, lies and the host of other wrongs we have collectively experienced w/in the IFB cult?
You have gone out of your way here to poison the well against Linda Hyles Murphery. You have been on a mission to protect the vaunted view you seem to have of FBCH. You single handedly represent many of the very traits we find so despicable in the IFB. Between your attack on Ms. Murphery, your verbose justifications, and your defence of a Church which allowed and enabled men like Hyles and Schaap to hold such positions of power; your behavior epitomizes the IFB apologist.
Now if your experience within the IFB cult has been a good one that’s great. But stop discounting the experience of those who have dealt with (or lived with) psychopaths in the (home) pulpit, the lies, the coverups, the abuse and other issues that are enabled by the IFB movement and mindset.
“Sydney August 10, 2012 at 4:31 pm
Once again, speaking without knowledge.
For your information, A.V. Ballenger was arrested, tried,sentenced, and served his time in prison.
As for the other situation of the diabled person, I have no knowledge, so I have no opinion!
And when it comes to Jack Schaap, that too is being dealt with–not covered up!
Need to get your facts straight!”
Interesting that you only mention the final outcome of the Ballenger case. You left out Hyles’ attempts to hide Ballenger’s wrongdoing: “The Chicago Tribune in a 1991 article reported that Hyles was sued for $1 million by the parents of the girl molested by Ballenger. The paper reported the “lawsuit claims Hyles and the church had not fulfilled their obligation to ensure that children were protected from harm during Sunday school.” This stemmed from their mentioning the molestation to Hyles who then promised to “investigate”. After two months of nothing being done, the parents went to the police.[7] Furthermore, “the suit, filed last week, claims the minister told the child’s parents that Ballenger ‘just liked little girls,’ and, ‘You don’t have a case.'”[8] Hyles and the church settled out of court.[9] Ballenger was sentenced to five years in prison.[10]” source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preying_from_the_Pulpit
You claim to have no knowledge or opinion about a disabled person being abused. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Hyles#Controversies
Now you can no longer use ignorance as an excuse unless it is willful ignorance.
The deacon board first claimed that Jack Schaap was on “medical leave” and only said they would cooperate with the police after someone ELSE reported JS’ actions to the police. Then they hired a lawyer with a history of covering up wrongdoing in IFB circles and told witnesses to go to him, NOT to the police, a clear case of witness tampering.
Get YOUR facts straight. Do you want to bring up other cases, or shall I?
So nice to know you are so up on all the details of this case. My point in my comments was specifically that, “If you don’t know the facts, don’t say you do.”
Even you have to admit that I did not say what I did not know. And, I would rather stay ignorant about a lot of things that don’t affect me, since I have so many more important things in my life than researching smut!
Smut = pornography, obscenity, etc.
Rape, molestation, etc. = abuse, violent crime, etc.
I personally think the latter is something we all need to be aware of. And I have a REAL problem with calling rape and molestation “smut.” It implies a sexual element and some type of guilt on the part of the victim. There is no sex in violence. JSYK.
I wasn’t referring to the acts of rape, molestation, etc. as SMUT! I was referring to the researching of these types of cases & situations, not so I can help others, but just so I make sure & spread the gossip. Sorry you took it the other way.
Like telling us to shut up? If you don’t know the facts, stop telling us we’ve got them all wrong. When the truth comes out in the papers and on TV, Christians pretending it didn’t happen don’t make Christ attractive to unbelievers.
Google “Jack Schaap” and “Jack Hyles” and see what comes up. It’s only people inside the compound who think any of this is secret. If it doesn’t affect you, why argue about it, especially when you admit you don’t know what you’re talking about?
I was stating the “facts” that I “know” to be “true.” I was not spreading opinions of things I know nothing about, like so many of the posters on here are doing.
At lest we are agreed what the results are if you research FCBH and its previous two pastors.
Filth, perversity, false doctrine, and criminal behavior? Sounds about right. And all in the name of God. And yet they say that those Christians speaking out against it are the ones damaging the “cause of Christ.”
“Sydney August 10, 2012 at 6:02 pm
I wasn’t referring to the acts of rape, molestation, etc. as SMUT! I was referring to the researching of these types of cases & situations, not so I can help others, but just so I make sure & spread the gossip. Sorry you took it the other way.”
There you go again, blaming the messenger! Warning people to stay far away from FBCH is helping them! Christ is not preached there, only a perverted, man-centered doctrine. Not to mention that they might get raped there.
I still don’t understand how she KNOWS Linda M. is lying. After all, she admited she didn’t live in the Hyles house. I would also like to know why Sydney can tell her story of abuse and not be accused of being a liar and being bitter, but Linda Murphrey cannot. I would also ask, why so angry? Why so quick to jump down everyone’s throat and accuse and malign people you don’t know?
Go back & read my post again — I said she was lying about several things, but I also said since she did lie about those things, how do we know if she is telling the truth about her family.
No doubt, we all know about her brother & his escapades. That is common knowledge. However, as said before, no one had to ask Bro. Hyles’ permission to go on vacation. Bro. Hyles did not “own” the church, school & college buildings! The money from the tithes of the church was not free money to his access.
It’s so easy to be hurt & let that hurt turn to anger until it clouds the mind and memories become distorted.
I know FBC is not, nor will it ever be, a perfect church–just like yours. Your church is not perfect because it is run by imperfect, sinful, humans. But, that being said, just because a few do wrong does not mean that the entire body is bad.
Linda has not been in FBC for over 20 years, and yet she states as “fact” things that are so far removed from truth it’s almost laughable!
Go ahead & believe her, if you want. You have that right, but it makes you wonder, when a person gets paid to give a speech & says such outright lies, what’s her motivation, but the money???
Were you there when JH was pastor? Because several people who were have said that he “expected” (read: required) them to come to him for advice on this sort of thing. No, the church, the buildings, and the bank accounts were not in his name, they were listed in the church’s name for tax reasons, but he had absolute control over them. Anyone who disagreed with any decision, and said so, was quickly run out of the church. He set his own salary, controlled the church budget, and disposed of church assets as he saw fit, and expected the deacon board to approve his decisions afterward.
You are angry, why should we believe you? You lied about her being paid to give this speech.
My question to you is: Were you EVER a member of FBCH? It sounds like you are just going on heresay.
I was a member for 25+ years. Bro. Hyles did NOT set his own salary. Every budget item was voted on by the church body, once a year. Yes, there were some decisions that were made (out of necessity) and then presented to the deacons at a later date, but those were very few, and very, very far between. I happened to have been a faithful member, and was in nearly every business meeting the church had in all those 25+ years. I can say with all honesty that you are quite mis-informed.
As for counseling with Bro. Hyles, anyone who was there knows that Bro. Hyles was available for anyone needing counsel (free of charge). He did encourage anyone with a problem to talk to him. Wouldn’t you like to know there was someone you could go to, if you needed advice? In all the years I was at that church I only remember counseling with him once. Bro. Hyles said, on numerous occasions, from the pulpit, “If you would just listen to my sermons, you wouldn’t need to come see me for counseling.” He was a good leader, not a perfect man, but a good leader. I enjoyed (entertainment value as well as spiritually) listening to his sermons. Did I believe every sermon illustration he used? Of course not, but I also knew they were used to emphasize a point in his message.
All this to say, I am not a “kool-aid-drinking” follower of anyone. I respect the Pastor as a human man, appointed by God to lead the church. I don’t “bow down and worship” him, but respect his authority as a pastor. Anyone who thinks of any man as being above God is wrong, and that goes for a pastor as well.
“Trust in the Lord,…and lean not unto thine own understanding.”
Yes, you said she was lying about several things. How do you know? How do we know you are not lying? As for stating facts, she talked about things that happened when she was there, not in the last 20 yrs. You really do have your undies in a bunch, don’t you?
P.S. SFL is my church, and there is more grace, forgiveness, wisdom, and peace here than any other place I’ve been.
Wow! Now who’s got their panties in a wad???
Just so you know, I was there when Linda was there! Not that it matters, but I do know what I am talking about.
You don’t have to believe me–that’s your right. But it’s funny that you believe her, just because she’s a Hyles, and yet you think Bro. Hyles, Dave, Cindy, and Jack Schaap are all liars? Oxy-moron???
By the way, what church is SFL????
I think I could answer having been in a close working relationship with the people involved and I’m saying Linda isn’t telling any lies! Now if someone wants to say she is then please tell me what they are!
Papa Bear, I was not blaming the “messenger.” I was blaming those stating things as “fact” that are outright lies!
Why are you so quick to believe things without any basis at all!? And when we try to “expose” the real “truth” we are treated as the liars???
No wonder the Devil is having so much fun in this world. With Christians arguing instead of fighting together to defeat Satan, we are making his job easier!
“Sydney August 10, 2012 at 6:22 pm
I was stating the “facts” that I “know” to be “true.” I was not spreading opinions of things I know nothing about, like so many of the posters on here are doing.”
For example?
The facts she knows to be true? That we’re all bitter and angry gossip-mongers and hate the IFB.
Opinions that we know nothing about? That Hyles covered up crimes (well documented) and that Schaap had sex with a 16 (now 17) year old girl (which he admitted to).
That pretty much covers it as far as I can tell.
Of course, you’re NOT angry! You’re NOT bitter!
We started this entire discussion because Linda Hyles Murphrey gave a speech and supposedly “exposed” the “secrets” of her family and church, for the purpose of making her happy (as stated in her speech).
As for her family’s “behind closed door” life, only the family and God knows for sure. My objections are in reference to the numerous other accusations she stated as “truth” about the church, schools and college. I have stated over and over, and am not going to state them again, but suffice it to say that with so many of the “facts” being outright “lies” who is to say if any of her speech has any validity at all?
If you want to believe her, please do so. I still say, it makes you wonder what her motivation is for stating so many mis-truths and for wanting so many people to think such bad things about her family.
I am actually very shocked at how many “angry” posters there are on this site. And they call us angry! I guess we are only allowed to have an opinion, or state the facts if we agree with them.
Do you have any idea how silly this sounds? 😆
We’re not angry, we’re laughing at you. You know you’re angry, and you’re not fooling anyone, we know it, too. The reason you’re so funny is that you think you’re original with your accusations and tactics, but we’ve heard (and refuted) them all before.
If you don’t want to be laughed at, maybe you should read this page before posting on this site: http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2011/10/fundy-comment-bingo/
If you are doing anything listed on that page, do not expect to be taken seriously.
Who are you kidding? I have read posts from more angry people than ever! I’m not being laughed at, they are just angry.
Doesn’t anyone else think it funny that you say you believe the rumors “because so many have said it” but you admit that what I am saying has been said many times before.
Now who’s laughing at who?
And yet again, you still do not say how you know her ‘facts’ are ‘lies’. You are not omniscient, omnipresent, or all-knowing. Fraud, tax evasion, abuse, all these things could have happened and you would not have known. You only know as much as JH wanted you to know. Ms. Murphrey knew a little more. Only God knows it all.
And the only truly angry poster here is you. Because apparently you don’t want to believe that someone else might have a different version of events and people than you. Different does not equal lies. Its all about perspective. Try to get some.
WOW!!! Another ANGRY one!!!
Tee! Hee!
You are going to believe what you want to believe w/o any “proof” at all. That’s why so many are going to die and go to Hell — you can’t believe in something they can’t see!
Good luck in your eternity!
So I shouldn’t believe Linda Murphrey without proof, but I should believe you without proof? Not angry, just trying to clarify. Tell me again how you KNOW Linda is lying, and not just giving a different perspective. Also, out of curiousity, you say you were there the same time as Linda; are you the same age range?
I’m a couple of years younger than Linda, more like the age of Cindy.
Wow! Where to begin???
Her speech began like many others, intro, comments, background, etc., then she started the accusations.
First one was that every member was in “complete obedience” to her father. She stated, “They didn’t dare disagree or be disloyal, for fear of being publicly ridiculed, or punished, or banished for doing so.” My proof to you is simply to say that in all the 25+ years there, not once did Bro. Hyles publicly ridicule, punish or banish anyone!
Then, she said members didn’t go on a vacation w/o asking her dad’s permission. I have no “proof” other than, it just didn’t happen!
Next, she stated that if her dad said to “drink Kool-aid” (referring to the Jim Jones incident where his followers drank poisoned Kool-aid & died), she said, “I’m not kidding, they would have.” Well she may have drank it, but I wouldn’t have!
The next several minutes of her speech was about her family, of which I have no firsthand knowledge on most of it, and will not comment.
Then, she gets down to the money part. She said, “I gott’a tell ya, the money part of it was pretty nice. As a kid, I mean think about it: tithes and offerings from 50,000 people. Hello! It created a lavish life style for our family. My father owned most of the city where the church
was. He owned a college, two high schools, two grade schools, a cemetery, lots of buildings; he was very wealthy.” You want proof — guess you’ll have to take this on faith, or common sense, but Bro. Hyles did not have free access to all the “tithes and offerings from 50,000 people.” That money was counted (by the deacons), deposited into the churches bank accounts and dispersed according to the church’s budget. Bro. Hyles did have access to Hyles-Publications’ money, which was money made from the sale of his books, tapes, etc., and of which most was either spent on the ministries or helping many less fortunate.
Yes, the Hyles’ did live a financially nice lifestyle. But, the house belonged to the church (parsonage) until a few years prior to Bro. Hyles death, when the church voted to give the equity that had been building up in the parsonages to each of the staff men living in them, so they would have a house in case of old age or ailment that would prevent them serving on staff. Bro. Hyles’ house was deeded to him after about 40 years of pastoring. In my opinion, that is not excessive.
Brother Hyles did not “own most of the city where the church was.” The CHURCH owned the church buildings. Yes, the church complex is large (approx. 1 city block, at the time of Dr. Hyles ministry), but it was not owned by Bro. Hyles. I believe the cemetery was probably owned by the church, as well.
The schools were self-supporting. The buildings were paid for, in early years, by the church, but in later years by the tuitions from the students.
The college downpayment was paid by the church members raising money. After that, the mortgage payments were paid with tuition money, as the college was self-supported.
Yes, in my mind, I would agree that Bro. Hyles was “very wealthy” as Linda states, but she is trying to say he has done something illegal or dishonest to get that money, and I do not believe it. Once again, I cannot prove that, but God knows.
She goes on to state: “And even into our adult
years, he owned us. He owned our homes, our cars, our furniture, he owned our lives and we didn’t dare cross him because we were too afraid
we’d lose everything.” I’m sorry, but if my father were paying the bills, I would expect to be answerable to him! If she didn’t want to be “owned” as she put it, by Bro. Hyles, she could have chosen to give it up. Once again, money won out!
She stated, “He died a multi-millionaire. He left nothing to his children. He left everything to the organization,…” I’m not surprised that he died a multi-millionaire, but I didn’t know “He left nothing to his children.” Maybe or maybe not. I don’t have any knowledge there.
She goes on in her speech to criticizing the church, how it is run, the rules, loyalty….
I’ll end there because the rest of her speech is just her complaining about how unhappy she was & then she relates her “experiences” to the rest of her “message.”
I don’t know if this makes anything clearer for you, or if it is just more fodder for the fire, but you asked for proof. You can say there is no brick and mortar proof, but I told you the way the church is run, how the people who attend the church are and the untruths that Linda portrayed about the church and the people. What you believe is up to you.
Sydney, your opinions are worthless and void of any facts. If you provide facts to back your assertions, well, maybe someone might believe you. Linda’s facts are first person testimony. And until you have facts to prove her wrong, her testimony stands. So, put up or shut your piehole.
I agree with Bob!
~~~Heart
Dear Sydney,
I’m not wearing panties.
Sincerely, boymom 😈
Sorry, bare bottom!
Bad, Bad, Boymom.
You’re not fooling anyone. You’re still angry, and I’m still laughing! You haven’t read the page I linked, or you would know that I wasn’t saying anyone corroborated your fantasy; I was saying you expect to convince us with the same weak arguments Fundies use whenever they don’t like something.
Poser: If this is a “stufffundieslike” website, why are there so many posters that are fundamentalist haters???
If you don’t like fundamentalists, why don’t you go to the sites you do like?
Wow, I thought even you could figure that out! Darrell posts about something Fundies like (in this case, Jack Hyles) and we say, “Wow! I used to like that when I was a Fundie.” Once in a while, someone will say, “I’m still a Fundie, and I still like it, and you’re all just bitter!” or even, “I’m still a Fundie, but even I know this is wrong/silly/ stupid.”
Well, since you put it that way, I can understand a bit more.
I’ve never been on this site until yesterday, and it seemed like so many of the posters were just angry & couldn’t wait to spread “bad” news.
I didn’t think that so many people who tried so hard to get away from funamental churches would spend so much time just griping, arguing and complaining!
I guess that explains a lot! My mistake!
Did Sydney just tell us to go to Hell? Did she learn that at FBCH?
Really???
First of all, I don’t talk like that.
Secondly, if you misunderstood what I said, I was referring to the blindness you people seem to have in believing what you want, just like the unsaved who won’t believe in heaven because they can’t see it. I never want anyone to go to hell.
You do talk like that. You have no humility and no grace. You are arrogant. You are angry and bitter that someone would dare to criticize your god, Jack Hyles. You judge and condemn. I truly feel sad for you, that you would rail so long and so hard for a man, and not even a good man. A man who spent most of his ‘ministry’ building monuments to himself. Now he is reaping what he has sown. Good-bye Sydney; I pray that someday you will repent of your divisive words, your prideful heart, and your idolatrous ways.
Sorry, but standing up for God is not making a man your god.
Its sad to think you actually believe you are doing this.
First of all. I am not angry at all. I am not an IFB. Never was and never will be. I left my church the minute an IFB preacher took it over. Just because I disagree with you Sydney does not mean I am angry. You have disagreed with alot of us so does that make you angry. I guess basically we can all agree that we disagree. But for YOU to judge me and say I am angry when you have no clue is wrong. I’m not angry at all. It just amazes me that lately everytime I hear about an IFB its because they raped or molested an underage person or they committed adultry. Again I am not angry because I had since enough to get out of my IFB church as soon as I found out what this man was and I praise God for opening my eyes of what an IFB pastor is and what they do.
And let me add also Syndey, You are not acting like the Christian you say you are by the way you are talking to people on here either. Are you above us because you are a better Christian? You are judging us too you know. This is going to be a never ending arguement so again I say it’s obvious that we don’t agree and will not agree on this.
Just couldn’t let it go, could you?
Right back at ya, babe.
My mistake. Of course, you’re NOT ANGRY!
I went to a small IFB church & the pastor called us into his office when he “found out” we were going on vacation(believe it or not we didn’t think to tell him…what business is it of his anyway?) He wanted to know where we were going for how long and what route we were taking. He then gave us a suggested list of other churches that were acceptable for us to attend since we were going to be gone on a Sunday & Wednesday. This is just one instance of him poking his nose where it didn’t belong. Needless to say we got out of there & have not regretted it!
Sorry for your experience, that is not the place of any pastor. The only way that would have been acceptable is if you asked for a list of churches he would recommend. Sounds like you didn’t. What he did has nothing to do with him being a pastor of an IFB church, though. It was totally him, overstepping bounds. Sorry!
In no way am I excusing Schaap’s part in this sordid affair. However, what she did was just as wrong . Did she know he was a married man? Was it CONSENSUAL? Don’t tell me a 16 or 17 year old does not know the difference between right and wrong as well. Both engaged in the act…both are guilty. And it’s interesting that God makes no distinction as to age.
Mike that is about the most idiotic thing I have seen anyone say on here in a looong time.
What you are doing is deflecting responsibility and placing it on the victim.
Yes, victim. If the reports are true she was 16 years old when this began, and if the reports have any truth to them and she was seeking counseling for abuse when this 54(?) year old adult male took advantage of his position, his authority, his position of trust to start his own sexual trist with this teenager.
Mike your comment is just sickening.
And don’t tell me that a 54 year old male who is a master manipulator cannot use his position of trust, his authority as pastor, his knowledge as her confidant/counselor to seduce a 17 year old. Who was the adult in this situtation?
Enough of this damnable crap about “Blaming Bathsheba!”
Thank you, Mike! You are exactly correct! She did know what she was doing was wrong. For a 16/17-year-old girl to have the attention of a man in his position, for her, was thrilling.
However, as a pastor, he should have followed the Bible teachings, and what I have heard taught in every church I have ever attended my entire life, and that is to “avoid all appearance of evil,” don’t put yourself in a situation where something like this could ever happen. Obviously, he wanted it to happen, or would never have “put himself in the situation.”
All of us making comments, whether for or against anything dealing with this situation, does nothing to further the cause of Christ, either. My hope & prayer is for people, not only from that church, but all Christians, to get their eyes off of human man and onto God and his purpose for our lives — bringing people to Him.
Thank you for your comments on this subject!
You’re freaking kidding me? So she’s at fault and all he did was fail to avoid the appearance of evil and he fell into her evil snare? You are a cult idiot.
Sydney had the place on fire yesterday! LOL 🙄
Possibility of a troll?
Bob, Sydney places the blame on anyone but the person who is at fault. And the funny thing is, If we disagree with Sydney the sicko then we are haters and bitter and angry all because we disagree with Sydney. But Syndey isn’t a hater or angry at all, it’s just the one’s that disagree with Sydney. Amazing how pretty much only Sydney is the arguing with everyone on here isn’t it? I think Sydney and the IFB pastors ALL need help if you want my opinion. She was 16 years old and not old enough to make reasonable decisions, that is why they are not called adults. Heck, I think 20 year olds aren’t old enough to make reasonable decisions so these sick IFB’S take advantage of them. And then I saw where Sydney said that just because the pastor was an IFB that wanted to know these peoples business of them going out of town doesn’t mean it had anything to do with him being an IFB pastor. WRONG!!! So far it’s the IFB pastors that I have seen being the only one’s wanting to know the people of their church’s business when they go out of town. I have been in church for 49 years and not one pastor has asked me about my travels, it has only been the IFB Pastors that do this. They are controlling and sick..did I say sick too, oh yeah I did didn’t I. 😆 Can’t UNbrainwash ole Sydney, he/she is too far gone now 😆
I get it; Sydney is a psychic, cause she knows all thoughts and motivations.
What if this is JS! Yikes 😯
Then we’re all screwed.
Yep there it is, “The Cause of Christ” defense. When you have no solid ground on which to base your argument or you find you are talking through your butt-gasket, run the “Cause of Christ” up the flag pole and hope it shames your opponents into submission.
At this point Syd and mike have shown their true colors and have abandoned any pretense of moral superority. At this point I have to wonder how close Jack’s failure mirrors their own for them to attack a child the way they have.
“Butt-gasket” made me snort cupcake into my sinuses. I will get you back for that in our next debate, Don. I really will. And I’m not sharing my cupcake with you, either.
Seems to me God tells people to obey the laws of the land. And the laws of the land (Illinois, certainly) tell dirty old men to keep their filthy paws off 16 year old girls, particularly when they are supposed to be counseling them.
Out of curiousity, do YOU make distinction as to age, or do you paw any female old enough to walk?
Exactly!
Sydney, I love how you turn it around that you have been saying this all along yet I never read where yoou said we are losing our testimony from all this arguing on here. You still are angry at us and yes you are appearing to side with these IFB pedophiles which is wrong or you wouldn’t be arguing with us. You say Linda is lying, how do we know you aren’t lying being as you are or were a member of that church? You appear very bitter and angry but it’s ok because according to you we all are as well. It still doesn’t change the fact that you said that you said the same thing I did yet you continue to be rude to us and angry because we don’t agree with you. I guess no one is going to change anyone’s mind here huh? All I know is I see a pattern of sexual abuse, rape, pedophilism (if thats a word) and brainwashing and control and legalism and the church trying to cover it up everytime I see an IFB pastor come up on the news. Not everyone can be lying about these men when we keep seeing it over and over and over and over. 🙄 I’m not angry or bitter because I have nothing to be angry or biter about. As soon as the IFB pastor took over our church my whole family left so therfore he didn’t have time to do anything to my family because we had sense enough to know to get out of there as soon as he came in. And slowly others are seeing what he is doing and they are leaving quietly too and going elsewhere. In fact I wasn’t even mad that I had to leave because we had only been there about 5 years and never really liked it there that much and was looking for a church when he came in and took it over. The only person I could say that I could be a little upset with would be the deacons for lying to us and not telling us what he was before he got voted in as the pastor. But that was for lying to us only because Deacons should never hide something like that from their congregation and they did.
Where is this video??!!
Its private now. I guess Linda wasn’t making enough money off of it, so she made sure less people could see it.
LOL 😆
I noticed that people are already coming after her on fb, and posting her work information etc. I don’t call it the Baptist Mafia for nothing! You speak out, they come after you, no question.
Someone want to count up the score? Do we have a BINGO?
I think the score is us 6 and Sydney 0 😆
The TRUTH of the matter…..
We exist using judgement every day in order to survive, from the coffee being too hot to drink on up through voting for our president. Judgement is necessary.
We need to judge Jack Schaap in order to have survivors. It’s not casting stones. It’s life. Jack Schaap committed a crime against God, against this child and against a society that trusted his leadership.
He must be exposed, judged and condemned with proper penalties. If this had been done with Jack Hyles, then maybe Jack Schaap would not have crossed the lines ever further by molesting a child. And the truth of the matter is, is that Jack Schaap, a man in his 50’s sexually put his hands on the body of a child of 16.
If you present this scenario without his name, everyone of us would, indeed, judge the man for the infraction and hope to see justice served. So then, there should be nothing of any allowances for leniency or mercy, especially from church members for proper judicial procedures for the actions of Jack Schaap.
From the age of 12 I was brought up under the fundamental dictatorship, attended Christian schools, lived my life for the church, adhered to their stringent rules, attended youth conferences, pastor’s schools, women’s jubilees, Hyles-Anderson College, bus ministry, sou-winning and the list goes on. I freed myself from all that mind and body control. Free yourself. Learn to true meaning of love and life, family and honor, work ethics and pleasure, music and dance, giving and receiving and most of all experiencing the many facets of life by your own discretion without a dictator’s rule where the dictator or dictators themselves live multi-dysfunctional lives!
~~~Heart
<3 your post…sounds like our backgrounds are similar!
Krysten,
Thank you…
I certainly wish that I had never gone through all those years under that leadership. I have friends how that do not understand a thing about this kind of cultish Christianity and I envy them. Their actions are not tainted by the echoing bellows of Jack Hyles rants of “rights” and mostly “wrongs” that he was always disciplining us about!
If I can say anything here, to help clear the way or answer questions from my first-hand experiences, then I am more than willing to speak. I will not be silent about anything!
I must say that I have been hurt deeply by these people, my family has been hurt, friends have been hurt and this isn’t what it’s all supposed to feel like!
I hope that this will help people to free themselves and live good lives!
~~~Heart
Heart – You need to come over to the forums and say hi.
Scorpio,
Thanks for the invite… where are these forums?
~~~Heart
Upper right hand part of the page. Marked Forums. Right above the search bar.
Is there any way to watch the video? When I click on it, it states that it’s a private video. Thanks!!
I’m not sure. I saw it before it went private. Good luck!
I saw FB on the Independent Fundamentalist Survivors page that the Video will be back up in a couple of weeks.
After reading this discussion, I’d be interested to watch the video. If anyone downloaded it and would be willing to send it my direction, my e-mail is theodotos128@gmail.com. Just mention the video in the subject line.
Many thanks!
I tried to read thru the comments here and just wanted to comment mostly on Sydney’s one comment that reads…”First one was that every member was in “complete obedience” to her father.” She stated that Ms. Linda’s statement , “They didn’t dare disagree or be disloyal, for fear of being publicly ridiculed, or punished, or banished for doing so.” is incorrect.
So, Sidney, in the 25+ years there, not once did Bro. Hyles publicly ridicule, punish or banish anyone?”….Pulllleaaaze….when I was a teenager my pastor was a HAC graduate so we went to all of the activities and conferences we possibly could….I clearly remember Dr. Hyles making a public example of a girl who decided to get up to go to the bathroom during one of his “dynamic” messages at Teen Conference, he basically told her to sit down, that she shouldn’t dress like a whore and to go to her youth pastor to “get right with God” for the mini skirt she was wearing, he said this amidst hooping and hollering of “amen’s” from the crowd…That was one of the MANY public bashings that I encountered and I wasn’t even a member – don’t even get my started about LBT and TBC in Texas as this was the college and church I attended for a few years.
Bottom line, the IFB is not God’s saving grace for America…the people who have survived this “movement”, who were hurt and whose heart hurts for people who have been ridiculed, belittled, ripped and abused under these preachers, people who want to love people and treat people the way Jesus did on this earth will be the ones who are used and will help show people the light. Learning and growing and calling out this junk is not bitterness….it’s putting an end to worshipping the biting serpents and believing in the One, true God.
Sidney, I pray that your eyes are opened to some things that aren’t right and that you obtain wisdom and understanding in what is truly being said here on this page.
Krysten, What??? You mean Syndney has been lying to us all this time and didn’t share what he/she witnessed from ole Jack Hyles after being at that churchfor 25 years?? Wow Syndey your credibility just went out the window right along with the rest of the IFB’ERS!! Oh wait,your credibility went out the window on your first comment 😆
Krysten,
I totally agree with all that you said here! Jack Hyles would behind that pulpit as though he was the stern voice of a furious God and the congregation was in such submission and fear.
I too remember events such as you mentioned. While I attended HAC on Sundays there was Question & Answer time when he would answer question from anyone in the congregation. I can recall more than not, the times when humble young college guys or even men from visiting churches would try to get up and ask a question only to be ridiculed by Jack Hyles with return arrogant comments or replies stating that he (Jack) knew the scripture by heart no need to recite it and if you can’t ask the question right then sit down I’ll come back to you when you’re a man.. blah blah blah….
All this to say was that, he was not a patient man, not a loving man, not a humble man and if he could berate a scared individual like that in a crowd of church members who have come to “hail” him… then it is undoubtedly true that he would act that very same way at home!!!
He was at the college one year when he would visit us girls and bring us gifts. We were in the old cafeteria. He was sitting at the top of the stair case at the east end. We were all sitting and eating egg rolls and pop. Well, some of us girls were recycling cans and saw that to be a great opportunity since there were cans everywhere. We were just below him and he saw us gathering empty cans to the center of the table while he was looking on and just commenting to girls across the hall. He saw us and asked us what we were doing. I told him that we were recycling cans and if he would please ask the girls to leave the empty cans on the table and not throw them in the trash that we would clean them up and collect them. He heard me, in fact many of the girls around that immediate area heard me, but he looked at me as though I was ridiculous and waved his hand as though to dust me away and moved on to some other girls who were giving him attention! In a sort of “Aw, I’m sorry he was mean to you let us make up for it and help” way, the surrounding girls all rallied to help us.
All this to say is that, NO… he didn’t have a good heart. He was out for number 1 and such is the case for Jack Schaap and I’ve got to say it, Cindy Schaap! She is not innocent here! She proports to be the first lady of the church. Along with that comes more perks that you can imagine. Any human enjoys “things”. Along the way Cindy’s perspective, being the youngest child of Jack Hyles, has been completely clear and thwarted at the same time. Sure she has learned many truths that she has learned but she has also learned many of the wrong things, such as “knowing” her place under the dictatorship of these men. Surely, in such obedience, she has failed also by turning a bling eye to the goings-on of her dad and especially now, her husband, Jack Schaap, who is guilty of molesting a child!!!
People, please, this abuse needs to stop! This kind of leadership has hurt so many people for so many years! In so many ways it has ruined so many events in my life and opportunities of living that I will never get back. I’m so glad that I walked away from this when I did. If you are thinking about walking away too, please DO IT! I will be your friend and tell you that you will be fine and good and even better for it!!!!!!!
My heart is sad for the victims but my soul is happy that Jack Schaap was found out. I just hope that the authorities will do their jobs right and many children will indeed be “saved” from men like these!
~~~Heart
Hi Sydney. I wasn’t on my computer this weekend so I missed all of what has happened. Let me introduce myself, I am Scorpio. I comment here regularly so I know what you are going through.
The bitterness of the people who comment here is so obvious. Thay are all in denial. I remember in drug rehab once the moderator said denial is not just a river in Egypt.
So anyway, you sound like a Godly woman. Are you single and available? I get lonely sometimes and would like to have a companion for when I listen to old Jack Hyles semrons. They truly bless my heart. Now Jack Hyles, that was a true Man of God. The world needs about 25 more Jack Hyles right about now. It saddens me to hear all of the lies his daughter is spreading.
No one here knows what went on in his house. And who are we going to believe? A bitter woman like Linda, who has an axe to grind? Or someone like yourself who sat under the preaching of Hyles for 25 years?
Speaking of Jack Hyles, I am fully convinced that God wrote this song for Jack:
But “I know Whom I have believed,
And am persuaded that He is able
To keep that which I’ve committed
Unto Him against that day.”
Anyhoos, I have to go now. Monday morning is check in time with my parole officer. I hope to see you on SFL more.
Scorpio,
You are hilarious!
The world is full of followers… people who want to be led exactly like the mice and the Pied Piper… all following him in droves to their demise! Stupid mice!… But we are not mice! You have a human brain! Use it! It’s required of you!
Stop being blind followers! Open your eyes and see the truth for what it is! You will be a much more happier person for it. Of course you will be responsible for yourselves and that means no more resting your responsibilities for thinking on the church and it’s leaders. No, now that you will accept the responsibilities for your own thinking, it will take more work to decide your actions, but at the same time you will be making better decisions rather than just being a follower of men like Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap who were just using the pulpit for their own gains.
Stop… Think.. and Free Yourselves so that you can become the person that you need to be!
~~~Heart
Yeah…
Remember Dr. Hyles sermon “fresh oil”? Remember the very long illustration concerning his “drunkard” father? Remember how he gave specific detail on the beatings his mother received from Jackie-boys mean daddy?
Well….Maybe ole’ Jackie-boy was just “bitter”?
Or…maybe this family just gets kicks and giggles from lying about each other…hmmm
Or…Maybe it’s ALL true…???!!!
You are only suppose to accept an accusation if there is two or more witnesses. So in that case look up on youtube Paula Hyles, In this interview she tells all she knows about the going ons at FBC of Hammond. I was a College student at HAC and a Member. I am not bitter I learned a lot there. Dr. Hyles was probably the wisest man on the earth during his life time. But just as Solomon fell into sin so did DR. Hyles. God blessed Solomon until Solomons death. His family paid the Consequences and I think the same is happening here, sadly. I personally knew one of Dave Hyles friends who finally got his life straighten out. He talked about the Drug use and the Illicit affairs Of Dave Hyles. I hope the curse of the Hyles family is finally over and the FBC can get a Godly new Pastor.
Oh, stop. You’re making my sides hurt with all this laughing.
I hope the curse of the Hyles family is finally over and the FBC can get a Godly new Pastor.
I’m sure that would be a welcome change for FBCH.
Dear Reader:
Extemporaneous speech often contains syntactical errors [ex: subject-verb agreement, etc.]. And while this text is close, it does not claim to be a verbatim rendition of Linda Hyles-Murphey’s memorable speech. That said, effort has been made to retain the meaning of the speech in its entirety.
* * * * * * *
My Dad Pastored a Church that Evolved into a Cult “My dad pastored a church that evolved into a 50,000-member cult. It operated and still operates under the guise of an independent fundamental Baptist church. But those who have left, the followers who have tried to leave, the outsiders, even the media (it was on 20/20 last year) recognize that it is clearly a cult.
“Every member was in complete obedience to my father. They didn’t dare disagree or be disloyal, for fear of being publicly ridiculed or punished or banished for doing so. They didn’t go on a vacation without asking my dad’s permission, and if he had said to drink the Kool-aid, I’m not kidding, they would have.
“My dad lived a double life, one of a righteous family man and of a dynamic speaker in the public eye, but [another] one of sordid sexual secrets privately, secrets that only my siblings and me and my mom knew. He hated my mom. Hated her. Treated her terribly. Abused her. And even turned his own children against his mother. We hated her. He told us she was crazy. We thought to make him happy, we would hate her too. Our home was so full of turmoil, hatred, stress, strife, and as a little girl, it was isolating, it was intense, and it was frightening. He had affairs. He had a mistress for many years, the wife of a Sunday School teacher. He built her family a beautiful home right around the corner from our house. You could see their family from our back door. It was craziness, living one way, preaching another.
“My older brother became another version of my father. He pastored a church in Texas and was found to be having affairs with 14 different women. He divorced his wife and married one of the 14. My father tried desperately to cover it up. He moved him to another church where he was found to have had 17 affairs with different women, and he just recreated what he had seen my dad live. And my dad did nothing but cover it up. I felt like I had one main responsibility as a child. It was simple, but daunting, and that was to keep all the secrets, and there were so many.
“You see, he had taught us that the best way to please God was to please him, because he was God’s man. He taught us that to please him we had to keep all the secrets. We could never even tell our best friends what went on in our home, because we might be the cause of the destruction of his ministry. I LITERALLY FEARED FOR MY VERY LIFE if I ever talked about my Dad’s ministry, or about went on in our home, for fear that it would hurt his ministry. I was so afraid, and the greater the secrets, the greater my fear, and the greater my determination to keep quiet.
“I got to tell you that the money part of it was pretty nice. As a kid–think about it, tithes and offerings from 50,000 people, hello–it created a lavish lifestyle for our family. My father owned most of the city where the church was. He owned a college, two high schools, two grade schools, a cemetery, lots of buildings. He was very wealthy. And even to our adult years, he owned us. He owned our homes, our cars, our furniture. He owned our lives, and we didn’t dare cross him, because we were too afraid we would lose everything. He died a multi-millionaire. He left nothing to his children. He left everything to the organization, which my younger sister and her husband now lead. And they still perpetuate his legacy: the strict rules, the undying loyalty, and they still try to keep all the secrets.”
I never understood, why was I the only one of the four kids, so tortured by the hypocrisy, so disturbed by the mind control over thousands and thousands of people, and so determined to find a better life? Why was I the only one that insisted on answers to my questions? And why was I the only one that ultimately broke away and cut ties with the brainwashing and the oppression, the fear, the secrets, and the life that had never been my life?
I finally walked away when I was about 28 years of age, then being estranged from my entire family. And I did not see my family again until many years later at my Dad’s funeral.
OK see what I mean? Not a story to share at a dinner party. I really got to the point after I left there that I couldn’t talk about me. For one thing, who would understand? For another thing, it was too hard. It hurt too bad. So I made a mental note in permanent marker that said, ‘must never talk about my life.’ And for many years, I didn’t, I couldn’t.
However, wonderful things have happened through the years … therapy, a lot of therapy. Deprogramming. Freedom from the mind control. And I began to heal and learn and accept and forgive. And even learn to be thankful for that bizarre life that I had because I realized, I was learning some amazing lessons not only for being there, but for having the guts to leave. And I now have values that are deeply carved in my very soul from that experience, values you don’t get from reading a book, or from a workshop, or another person, values that are only this deeply engrained when you live where I’ve lived.
Because my Dad was a cult leader, I now embrace three values, and on one will ever take these away from me. The first one, freedom. Freedom to explore my own interests. Freedom to live within my own value system, freedom to determine my own value system, freedom to believe what I believe and never stifle what I believe, freedom to disagree, freedom to ask questions and require honest answers, freedom to learn who I am, and freedom to love who I am.
The second value was truth. I learned pretty quickly that I wasn’t going to be very free until I dealt with what was true. And that was hard for me. Truth was a scary word for me, because my entire life, I had never been allowed to speak of what went on in our home. I have never told even my best friend what went on in our house. Being truthful was one of the scariest things I could think. I learned that secrets grow in the dark, but when exposed in the light of the truth, they start to lose their power.
Mary Vernon, my dear, amazing therapist in Dallas Texas who nurtured me and who loved me through years and years of healing – she used to say to me, ‘Linda, you’re only as sick as your secrets.’ So I stopped keeping secrets. And as scared as I was in my late 20s, I finally began to deal with what was true. I finally began to speak what was true. And I eventually learned how to live openly only in truth.
And the third value, was courage. Did you know that you actually can’t have freedom or truth if you have no courage? Courage is a requirement for both. You may desire to live in complete freedom, complete truth, but if you’re lacking in courage, you will live in neither one. In my late 20s, I had a tiny shred of courage. Not much, but it was all I needed because my desire to live and be free and honest was so great that the tiny shred of courage I had was enough to allow me to walk away.
I had a plaque on my desk that I have had for years, and its gone with me wherever I’ve ever moved. It says, ‘the secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom is courage.’ And that resonated with me. I knew I wasn’t going to be happy unless I was free, but I knew I wasn’t going to be free unless I could muster up the courage to get out of there.
I had to cling to and act upon that tiny shred of courage in order to finally leave a cult. The only friends I’ve ever known, my childhood connections, my history, my family, knowing that in doing so, I would finally have what I had longed for my entire life, and that was freedom, truth.
Freedom, truth, courage – three words that may be trite and overused for some people. To me, they are the air that I breathe, values that I insist upon living and loving in my life.
Oh, and one other thing that I actually now value? Sharing my story. Talking about me. Who would have thought. I now recognize that it’s in sharing my story that I can so passionately share with you my values, values gained from 28 years of in an emotional prison that kept my heart under lock and key, and kept my mind from knowing what I knew.
You know I sometimes wonder if perhaps living in the absence of our values is what can most clearly determine what indeed our values are. And for me, I really believe that the absence of and the denial of created the presence of …
For so many years I was denied freedom, truth and courage. And now, I will never let them go.
Not to worry, you’re still not going to find me at a dinner party, talking about my childhood. Not going to happen. You won’t find me sitting around, elaborating over my father who took a wonderful church and turned it into a 50,000 member cult. I still know that’s still a mood killer. I get it. But, you will find me here, and in other appropriate settings, especially if I can help somebody, talking about my life with sincere gratitude for all that I’ve learned, in spite of, and because of living in the absence of freedom, truth and courage. And thank God I now have, I now am, all three.
* * * * * * *
[Based on Linda Hyles-Murphrey’s testimony at the 5 April 2012 TEDxOjaiChange event in Ojai, California].
Christian Socialist
Can’t we just all get along here and LOVE one another like we’re supposed to…!!! No, seriously, I’ve read about 80% of the posts here and all I can say is we’re all entitled to our own opinions – be they factual or not. It has made for interesting reading. However, my side of it is this — I and my wife were both raised in IFB churches, both were in one way or another associated with Hyles, Pennell, Rice, Roloff, etc. and I will bottom-line the whole story and ALL the sordid details by saying this >>> ANY so-called church, in ANY denomination, that puts man’s word above God’s, man’s rules above God’s, man’s commands and expectations of others above God’s IS A CULT. Period. No explanation needed, no splitting of hairs needed. Period. I’ve been in the trenches ALL MY LIFE and have seen the extreme casualties of what man has done in bringing up their children based on what another man or group of men, or congregation says, whether it’s another church member or the IDIOT at the pulpit. And it IS a CASUALTY. There are so many screwed up people out there as a result of ALL types of religions and denominations and it’s sad, very sad. People were not created to be put in a box any more than God Himself is to be put in a box. Unfortunately, man’s pride and ego take the forefront in their ability to make wise choices on how they live and lead at the expense of others. I’m not saying ALL denominations or religions do this, but some do and those who have been in that unfortunate group have to deal with the damages the best they can through therapy, counseling, medication, healthy relationships, and most of all by God’s grace. I think society in general are good people – saved and unsaved. They mean well, they want well for their families – BUT, church-people and so-called Christians have tainted who God really is through their consistent Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is: the state of pretending to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie. I’ve seen it ALL my life. Can you blame those lost as a golf ball in tall grass for not wanting anything to do with church? I can’t. Not at all. Why bother?
The same goes with Legalism. Legalism, in Christian theology, is a usually-pejorative (derogatory) term referring to an over-emphasis on discipline of conduct, or legal ideas, usually implying an allegation of misguided rigour, pride, superficiality, the neglect of mercy, and ignorance of the grace of God or emphasizing the letter of law over the spirit. Legalism is alleged against any view that obedience to law, not faith in God’s grace, is the pre-eminent principle of redemption. Man, leadership, etc. have added to God’s expectations of us and are very clever at twisting the truth, adding their own opinion or interpretation, and are usually very talented (through their own nurturing) in manipulation and control over others and circumstances. I’m quite frankly sick of it and I would have to believe God is too. It’s not who He is.
Yes, we remember these men:
Tiger Woods
J.F. Kennedy
Ted Kennedy
Jesse Jackson
Bill Clinton
Jack Hyles
Roman Polanski
MOHAMMAD
Me…
I totally agree with all that you said. My iPad was having a few glitches that sent that list inadvertently. But I totally agree with your comments!
In particular, I agree with your comment that most people are good-hearted! It’s just sad that this type of cult brings to mind and to the surface, the error of their ways, the sins of the flesh, and cause them to judge themselves and others so harshly that they need approval and acceptance and reassurance on a weekly basis from the very source that causes them a warped sense of “being”.
As I have said before and I will continue to reiterate, it is essential to know yourself, be responsible for yourself and in turn seek out the truths for your life. Don’t base those boundaries on the dictatorship of one man. I mean, look at the tyrants of history, for example the Inquisition and HItler for that matter!
While those entities were unavoidable, well, in today’s age, we have choices. Make the right choices for your life and the lives of the children of whom you are responsible!
Don’t succumb to the Pied Piper way of living! You will only find that no man can care for you nor care for your family better than you can care for them yourself! It all is in your hands and the outcome of happiness both here and your future will be based upon what decisions you and you alone, make for yourself.
My wish for everyone here, is that everyone would take the time to re-evaluate the way in which they make decisions and on the real truths. Really give it some thought and bring yourself to find the goodness of every aspect of your life.
Understand the sweetness of a baby’s cry, requesting nurturing. Remember the growing pains of adolescence. Be insightful of the quarrels of individuals which can be a display of affirmation of a self-importance that in turn will develop into confidence. Know the admonition of an elder who, though brass, may only have your best interests in mind because of their own journey through life. Enjoy sex, marriage, song, dance, and the thrills that lighten your heart as a human being! These are all gifts!
I wish you wellness without harsh judgement upon yourself or others!
Live, Love, Laugh, Sing, Dance and add to that list……….
~~~Heart
It’s interesting how easily misled people can be by someone on a platform or in a position of leadership. Just because a person is speaking from a pulpit or platform, or a particular office doesn’t mean it’s all truth or to be adhered to. Nor does it mean they are an authority on the subject either… we all need to WAKE UP.
The fact of the matter is that Linda told us of her life within a fundamental independent cult that portrays itself to its members and others as having a holiness above “the world”. This image was used to manipulate and influence people. It is a revelation when the curtain is ripped top to bottom and the truth about this cult is actually seen. All the KJV bibles, women wear skirts, women are to be submissive to their husbands etc. doesn’t cover up the truth that these people are just as worldly or worse than non-IFB Christians. As far as the money. His salary is a number on paper. How many love offerings, cash gifts were paid to the man over the years, who paid for his house, his cars, his trips and so forth. I’m sure that there would be a big surprise if someone went through the books if they could get through the FBCH defensive line.
So every time I try to watch this video it says it is private.. is there a way to watch it any more?
Let’s see how Jesus dealt with the sins of religious leaders:
Matt 23
1 ¶ Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
13 ¶ But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?”
Anyone still going to say that the sins`of the ‘man of god’ should be kept quiet??
It’s amazing! Any first year law student could blow this lady out of a courtroom. But here on this site, her testimony is taken seriously. She is the best defense witness yet. Please, keep talking, Linda.
She’s not on the stand and this isn’t sworn testimony.
She’s using her own recollections as best she can to tell her story. Just like all of us do.
Really? So you are seriously saying that we should believe her gross exagerations and believe them because she did not take an oath? The point is obvious. She is exageration blatently on many simple facts. Should should believe she is not exagerating on the others? Really?
And how do we know you are not exaggerating, hmmm.
If the choice is whether to be believe Linda or her father the right revered, Doctor-Brother-Lord Hyles… ummmmm, I’ll take Linda everyday of the week. If you want to apply your legal standards to something substantive then go take a look at Daddy Jack’s responses to his accusers in the Nischik affair.
You mean Vic Nischick, the homosexual who had trouble at FORD and loose his positions, deaconship, and wife the year before his attack? Or Bob Sumner the one who got doinked from the Sword of the Lord for Curtis Hutson? They would be shark bait for any good lawyer. So, I’ll gladly take you up on that.
Your indoctrination into the IFB cult is complete if you are going to use Cutis Hudson as your appeal to authority. 🙄
Do you have any evidence that Vic a: worked for Ford? b: That he was a homosexual? (standard opperating procedure for discrediting someone in the IFB.)
That was exposed as a false attack back in 1989 with the “Biblical Evangelist” articles. Btw. Vic did leave a lifetime job with GM to go to work for the House of Hyles. So you get a half credit for getting his work experience in the auto industry correct.
Edward, you are so right! But, a bit of words to the wise — Don’t waste your time trying to tell the truth to these people. They are so blinded by their hatred of FBCH & IFB that they don’t want to believe the truth. They will choose to believe the lies over & over because it fuels their hatred. Most of them were never FBCH members and have no idea of how the church operates. Truth will win out in the end, but there’s no need trying to expose the truth on this site. They are only interested in the lies that serve their cause! Good luck trying to convince the angry mob!
You again!?!
We didn’t need to be members of FBCH in order to recognize how the IFB cult works. Many of us came out of clones of the House of Hyles.
Maybe someday God will remove the scales from your eyes. I pray it is sooner rather than later.
Edward, the reason I believe her mostly is because the woman’s husband and children that Hyles was having an affair with have all said he did some of these things that she speaks of that they know about. So they too have said the same thing of what they were involved in.
I’m not exaggerating! I told you 50,000 times!
How exaggerating! 😉
Oh, and did anyone know what her daughter did? Can you imagine! Her daughter decided that Momma Linda was a weirdo and ended up back at HAC. So, if a daughters word is right, than let’s believe Linda’s daughter!
Her daughter, the granddaughter, was seen on double-dates with Grandma and Grandpa over and over again. So, let’s see. Momma thinks Gpa is and abusive cult leader, but daughter goes back to the cult. Makes sense to me!
Edward, you have the “least” say because, you weren’t there. 😉
I was there.
So… you have a vested interest in keeping a lid on what was going on under Jack Hyles then? What was your part in the cover up? What else are you trying to keep under wraps there Eddy?
And why didn’t momma Linda ring the bell of cultic abuse when her sweetie ran off to HAC! That would have been the time to make a stink if you asked me.
Those dudes tried for years to catch Jack Hyles and they never did. They hired PI and guess what! Nada! One good ole Vic writes his book after spending how many years sleeping in the other room? If, by some insane reason that were true, he is the biggest fool who ever lived. Think People! How can you put yourself under the influence of a “man” who claims he had to sleep in the other room while his wife had an affair for many years. Ug!
Worship Hyles much there Eddy?
http://fandaily.info/news/jennie-nischik-first-baptist-church-of-hammond-jack-hyles-mistress-photos/
http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_story.php
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/hyles/sin.htm
http://home.conservativebabylon.com/2007/11/09/jack-hyles/
Jack never answered the substance of the accusations but always deflected and misdirected in an attempt to obsfucate and muddy the issue.
We do not buy into the cannonization of St. Jack Hyles. Given his shallow biblical teaching it is not a stretch to see his personal life was a sham as well.
Vic served as a deacon all those years, too. Yes, he certainly did. And if that stuff were happening then he is directly responsible for not exposing it in the hundreds of deacons meetings he attended. I believe he was working at FORD when he got in trouble for homosexual activity. He last all his positions and his wife. And then, suddenly, he comes forward with bizarre story. Good grief!!!!
I recently called Mrs. Hyles just to see how she would react. She had nothing but the sweetest things to say about her husband and how he treated her. If that woman was abused, she is the greatest actor in history, she told me she knew he was really sick those last few days because he was sitting with his Bible, but not reading it. From the mouth of the wife!
The deacons sided with Hyles because they knew Vic Nischik. That’s the bottom line.