Preachers, Scandal

Last Gasps

763 Comments

From all indications, Jack Schaap, the infamous pastor of the First Baptist Church of Hammond and chancellor of Hyles-Anderson college, is on his way out the door. For now he’s on “indefinite medical leave” which in fundamentalism is generally accepted code for “about to be quietly fired for doing something horrible.” Word to the wise: keep an eye on the Wednesday evening service at FBC this week. It might be worth your time.

Update 1 (7:30p.m.) The story has officially broken by CBS Chicago so I now feel free to share it here. Christ have mercy.

But at least Jack managed to get one last burst of crazy in before he headed for an undisclosed location to await this fate and here it is. From July 8th here are some relevant excerpts from his sermon “What Mom And Dad Don’t Know Will Hurt Him.” Only click that link for audio if you have a strong constitution.

01:20 Let me ask your daughter something. You date him? Have you
kissed him? Ya’ sleeping with him? Multiple times?

04:04 And I’ll look at the person and say, who ya sleeping with? Your
kid’s problem(s) isn’t, the, did you see how short her skirt is, no,
the problem is, she takes her skirt, and everything else off. Your
kids are coming to me and telling me they have sexual experiences in
the hundreds; hundreds; hundreds.

05:04 Is she good in bed? How many times have you slept with her? Are
you uncomfortable?

05:46 You know, the most common question I ask our teenagers: are you
safe in how you act? Mom and dad, you understand the language? That’s
my most common question. In Baptist Church, in Hammond, Indiana, are
you practicing safe sex?

09:10 I want to say to my fellow brethren cremate me over this. Absolutely destroy me on the blog pages. Massacre. We’ve lost lost
scores of HAC students because pastors get furious when I talk about this. But who wrote the book on sexuality folks?

09:47 Nobody wants to be more intimate with you than God does. The language that Jesus Christ used when he talked to his Father about what he wanted for his people. Read John 17 mom and daddy and tell me how intimate he wanted your kids to be with him. Read John 15 and ask me if Jesus Christ just wanted to shake hands. [whispering] If you abide in me, and my words abide in you. I in you. You in Me. We in the Father, the Father in us. Don’t try to reach some ambiguous theological nonsense in that. Jesus was saying, can I put it in language that everybody understands. He says “I want be the most intimate of intimates with you.”

10:50 But if we don’t get it figured out that we’re connected with God. And when your teenager goes through adolescence and they start changing, and daddy, you don’t want to touch her anymore, you know you don’t want to hug her anymore; trust me, she’s got a boyfriend lined up who’ll be happy to touch her.

11:50 Mom, dad, listen to me. I don’t need more business, but when your children reach that age, and they start going through that 13, 14, 15 year stage, send them to me, I’ll talk to them. Please don’t look at me like I’m stupid, why are you talking this way? Because I don’t want to lose your kids, that’s why. Because you don’t want to find out about it do you mom and daddy. And I’ll tell you three reasons why. Number one, because you’re dirty yourself.

12:42 I was one of those little kids that went to a public school. You’ve heard me say it, I watched sex take place in the Junior High hallway, but I was a virgin when I got married.

13:09 You know what grieves my heart. I’m looking around and see some of you men sleeping and I want to walk up to you. I can tell you how many girls your son has slept with; I know. He lives at home with you right now. You’re sleeping. You’re sound asleep. I want to walk up to you and say wake up dad, your son is whoring around.

15:03 Do you know how many times your daughter sneaks out in the wee hours of the morning to have sex with her boyfriend? Well, not my
daughter. I’ll take pictures for ya’.

763 thoughts on “Last Gasps”

  1. Jack Schaap is the center of a lot of mental-lemming’s universes. I despise these idiotic, vapid conferences where they all meet, and congratulate each other on their “standards” and the “numbers” they bring in every week. Schaap is a HUGE deal because they have “7,500 per week.” There are 7,000,000,000 people on the planet. REALLY, how big of a part of God’s plan could he be, if he wasn’t a child molester?

    In contrast, a guy they would preach against, Tim Tebow, who works on Sundays, went to a secular college, and listens to country music, has turned America upside down. He’s a proud Christian who refuses to condemn ANYONE, and talks about “looking for common ground” with his evil, worldly teammates. His goal is to “attract them to Christ through how I live, not what I say.” 93,000,000 people Googled “John 3:16” in the 24 hours after he played in the NCAA National Championship game.

    I’m not lifting Tebow up as anything more than a football player. I’m just saying you can find God in a lot of places, and His cause isn’t hurt because some child molester got caught.

  2. He’s a wanker. Most of them are. SO glad I broke away from my parents’ fundaMENTALism years ago.

  3. Not at all surprised to hear this about Jack Schaap, but I was surprised to hear that the church had actually responded the way they did. I’m so used to hearing, sometimes years after the actual crime, about some IFB church that covered up and protected abusers and rapists. To hear that they actually fired the abuser and called the police is refreshing to hear. Hopefully they go even further and make sure the victim/victims get real help.

    It must have taken a lot of courage for the deacon who first found out about it to take action like he did. If the other leaders had decided to cover it up instead, he would have been long gone with the threat of revenge if he dared tell anyone else.

    As for the clips from Schaap’s “sermon”… he’s barely coherent, and definitely shows his unhealthy fixation on teenage girls and sex. If I had a daughter, and I had been present during that service, I would have grabbed her and run far far away. 👿

    1. I certainly hope that’s the case…that they fired him and called the authorities because it was the right thing to do. What I’m afraid of is that we’re going to find out that FBC Hammond didn’t get the horse got out of the barn before they could close the door and now they’re being forced to cooperate with authorities.

      And my next question…he may have been fired from being pastor of FBC Hammond, but is he still technically president of H-A College?

      1. Sorry…let me clarify…I’m afraid that the only reason the deacons at FBCHammond are cooperating with authorities is that word got out of this sin before they could sweep it under the rug. I certainly hope that’s not the case.

        But to piggy-back on what Scorpio said above, I’d love to know why they decided to go to the authorities. The situations I’ve thought of are:

        1. Like Scorpio said, they didn’t like him and were looking to get rid of him
        2. They responded in light of the Penn State (and BJU) scandals
        3. They’ve covered this up before (with either another pastor [or so I’ve heard], with him, or both) and they’re done. with. this.
        4. There is more than one young lady involved
        5. Schaap was committing some other sin (dipping his hands in the cookie jar?) and this was the straw that broke the camel’s back
        6. They are hoping that, by cutting ties to Schaap, they can duck the inevitable law suit by the victim(s)/her family(ies)
        7. Any combination of the above

        Or maybe…just maybe…there are decent human beings amongst the Board of Deacons at FBCHammond and they are disgusted by this…as any decent human beings would be.

        1. That is my hope and prayer to. I know there are plenty of people there that would be quick to cover something like that up to “protect the cause of Christ”, but I really do hope that the reason they acted was because there were leaders (at least one?) there who found out and refused to let it pass. Despite all the garbage in the IFB churches, we can always hope for a REAL man of God.

  4. Don’t be surprised to see Schaap on TBN’s Praise a Thon. What would Hyles say is he was still alive. He’d tell Schaap just to drink a PBR, go to the disco, and make an appearance on TBN and the PTL club.

  7. I am so, so glad to hear that this man has finally lost his bully pulpit. He has hurt so many people, and I am glad that his reign has finally come to a close. I am so proud of the deacon who brought this out. I would have been willing to bet the farm that this church would cover up whatever went down, so I am glad that they went to the police. Maybe the Dave Hyles debacle actually taught them something. On the other hand, I wonder how long it will be before some preacher decides to link Jack Schaap’s change in stance on the KJV/B issue to his eventual fall from grace. It will be interesting to watch how this all plays out. I know this is horribly judgmental of me, but this news has totally made my week. I do feel bad for his family and his victim, but I am so glad he finally got his comeuppance.

    1. When someone sees evil people brought to justice, there can be a sense of relief and even joy. Here’s how the Psalmist reacted in Ps. 52:

      “You love evil more than good and lies more than truth. You love to destroy others with your words,you liar!

      But God will strike you down once and for all.
      He will pull you from your home
      and uproot you from the land of the living.

      The righteous will see it and be amazed.
      They will LAUGH and say,

      ‘Look what happens to mighty warriors
      who do not trust in God.
      They trust their wealth instead
      and grow more and more bold in their wickedness.’” [emphasis mine] (NLT)

      2. That is so true. I forgot that was in the Bible, because I don’t remember that ever being preached on in my church. I am glad to have now read it in a modern version. Thanks, PW. 😀

  8. After contemplating the news of yesterday I have an observation. Since usually this type of thing in the IFB universe has been historically covered up and swept under the rug, the church deacons/board that fired him either:

    1) Did not like him and were just looking for an excuse to get rid of him
    2) Responded in light of the Penn State scandal
    3) Some combination of the above

    1. It’s tough to be the guy at the top. 😉 Clearly, the deacon didn’t like him, but probably feigned outward loyalty. Come on, the deacon was obviously looking through Jack’s cell phone. Others on the board also probably were looking to bring him down. These types of people (J.S. types) create way more enemies than they know, but they are delusional in believing everyone loves them. . .To use a stupid illustration, remember the witch’s monkey soldiers in the Wizard of Oz–ready to do her bidding, but thrilled once she was taken down. They’re just usually too cowardly to do it themselves.

      1. From my experience in the IFB, the only way to get them out of power is to patiently nod in agreement with everything, while watching closely for the most opportune moment to have enough of reason to fire him. However, if they don’t get their heads all the way out of the sand, they’ll hire another one just like him. It’s the battered sheep syndrome. They don’t know what else to do and his kind of abuse becomes ‘love’ to so many people. They become dependent on such a leader(abuse) to feel like everything is ‘normal’ again.

  9. This type of abuse has been going on for many years and trickling down into the smaller churches. But no one – NO ONE – is guarding the post! They Independent! We’ve allowed these Pastors to go from church to church without ever holding them accountable because of the excuse of “the cause of Christ” and it’s sickening!

    When I’ve asked others to please help me fight in getting particular pastors removed it is always to no avail. Why? They have already left that church and moved on to another! The behavior continues. These pastors and leaders that continue to cover up will answer to God but they too will answer for being weak kneed and not standing up for our children!

    1. It’s not really for the cause of Christ. Their cause is for the corporation they built while using Christ’s name in vain. It’s all about their kingdom, not God’s Kingdom. They have convinced scores of folks that their kingdom is God’s Kingdom. It’s NOT! Jesus said, “The kingdom is within you”. Jesus is about building up(encouraging) a kingdom(spiritual) WITHIN us. It has nothing to do with the literal brick building, program, etc.

  11. So does anybody think that this is the first time this happened with Schaap? I would think there is a long line of past victims out there. Let’s hope they have the courage to come forward.

    1. No. Not at all. I’m guessing there will be many more that will come forward given the facts of the case that indicate premeditation. I would bet this has been going on for years. No clue on how many victims will actually come forward though.

    2. In addition to other girls who pop up, I’m also guessing he has some access to an unfiltered, unmonitered internet connection (maybe his smartphone) to fulfill a highly developed porn addiction…just my speculative opinion

  12. I went to him to ask his advice when a guy at the college asked me out like I was told I was supposed to do and he told me that he’s known the guy I was asking about his whole life and that it was Gods will that I date and marry that guy and that as a plus the guy had lots of money and I would be very well taken. care of, well I knew the money part wasn’t true but I did as I was told (I was an 18 yr old college girl) and married that guy. well we were divorced yrs later and I feel he was never Gods will for me. Unless you have been One of the college students you can’t understand the hold they had over you and you were made to feel you were going to hell if you didn’t do what they said when they said with the right heart attitude.

    1. I know that Jack Hyles used to pressure church members to come to him for advice before marriage, purchasing a car or home, or any other “major” decision. The man was a control freak.

      1. The IFB pastor I was under was a Hyles clone. He would say the exact same thing. Any major decision in your life needs to be run past him first so you know if that is truly God’s will for your life.

        1. oh yes! the west coast IFB brotherhood says the same thing. Many people don’t even make medical decisions unless their pastor is there to help them.

        1. I know of at least one IFB pastor who “resigned” after robbing his church blind that now IS a financial planner. Funny how that works out.

    4. He did the same thing to me. Fortunately, I had enough sense, life experience, and rebellion to reject his advice and to my own thing. That was one of the best decisions I ever made.

    5. You had the choice to go and you had the choice to leave. I think people forget about that and always want to blame someone for their mishaps in life. Just saying… There were lots of women available to talk to and council with, everyone has a CHOICE… The only question I have is this all Fundamental Baptist Churches I have been to teach a woman/girl does not meet with a man alone for council. Where were the parents? Where was the dad? God gave the parent the child not the church it is ultimately the Fathers responsibility to train and guide the child and his house not the churches.

      1. You say that we had the choice to go or leave, but clearly you do not understand the dynamics of a person who has been raised their whole life (or much of it) brainwashed into believing that this was the *right* thing to do, and that the advice you get from the pastor was somehow magically the *right* advice, and if you followed it, your life decisions would all be good ones. This is a strong hold they have on their people and even though technically they COULD leave, none of them can. It is all they know. It took years and years and a lot of trauma for us to get out to the point we are now. If you haven’t ever experienced it, you wouldn’t understand it. Even with the ones there now, defending Schaap, it isn’t really entirely their fault. They have been blinded their whole lives. Opening your eyes to the light is very difficult. Some are though. Praise God for that. Don’t blame the ones who can’t yet. Pray that they will.

        1. I didn’t grow up under the Hyles brand of fundyism, but a much milder form in the GARBC. I did, however, subject myself to Bob Jones and later attended an IFB church under a Hylesite. Like others here, I’ve spent the last several years trying to remove all remnants of modern day fundamentalist philosophies from my core beliefs. Is it too harsh to portray the typical Hyles-type IFB church as exhibiting actual traits of a cult? It sure sounds that way when I hear things like people fearing to leave or being unable to leave no matter what rational evidence screams that they should…

        2. The arguments against all rational evidence have already been pre-loaded into your brain before anything actually comes along to test them. If you “question authority” you have a problem with rebellion. If you disagree with the punishment that is given you have an “attitude problem” etc. Long before Jack Hyles was ever revealed to be an adulteror, there were MANY sermons and lessons on “Loyalty” and how, “If you didn’t see it happen, it didn’t happen” and “I won’t give an excuse because my real friends don’t need one and my enemies won’t believe it anyway.” It is like they knew what to prepare the people for. It was diabolical. And it worked.

        3. Exactly, Sims. What you describe is truly what happens up there. What is sad is that it truly only took a few years to brainwash me into stupidly going to “the Man of God” to get counsel about a dream job that I was offered. Well, Schaap didn’t agree that a woman should take a dream job half way around the world without a man to go with her, so he called my potential employer and got them to pull their offer (it was another church that was about to be financially dependent on FBCH). Going to the MOG cost me that job and set me back about 4 years in my life goals. I knew better than to go, but I was so terrified that God would judge me for my rebellion of not going. It was my choice to go, but like you said, there isn’t really a choice when you are that close to brain washed. I’m glad you and your family had the strength to get out.

  14. My heart breaks for everyone involved. This is truly a great heartbreak. Jack Schaap is a man like everyone else, and no one should view themselves as ‘above this kind of act.’ Pastors need to put a strong guard around them with high accountability because not only are they just as sinful as the rest of us, but their temptation is definitely on a larger scale. So often people make the mistake of viewing a pastor or ‘man of God’ as ‘better than this.’ I say, we should view a man of God for what he is- a man. Nothing more, nothing less. Should we respect him- yes. But at the end of the day, he is a man and he needs to take precautions the same as the rest of us. These ‘situations’ happen all of the time, but the pastoral falls are the ones that make the news because people are viewing these pastors as more than they are. Yes they are trusted and should be punished for abusing that trust. 😥 I pray that this incident draws people to Christ. He is in control. There was a time in my life when I was completely crushed and broken and felt like my world was crumbling beneath me. During this time, I drew closer to Christ than I ever have. It was extremely hard and painful, but I knew Christ was with me and I could feel his closeness. Sometimes Christ has to break us to get us to open our eyes- to show us how much we are in need of a savior! I truly give my sympathy to EVERYONE who has the feeling of a blow to your stomach. That feeling is all too real, and I pray that you use this time to draw closer to the only reason we are here in the first place- Christ.
    I want to just give his family a hug… 🙁

    1. Your comment, in my opinion, is sad. He is in a position of power, apparently called by God to lead a flock, and yet he goes against the words he preached and took advantage of a child. His actions should be for all to see. And while we do not throw stones, we can be thankful Christianity is demonstrating it’s true colors.

      1. Is this true Christianity? I am not condoning his actions and agree that his actions should not go unpunished- all I am saying is that NO ONE is above this kind of behavior. Christians are sinners- we are all born with a sin nature, and I am just saying that we should not place a pastor above that sin nature. Yes he was in a position of power, and I believe he is paying for and will continue to pay for his actions. His ‘sin’ is broadcasted all over the papers and tv. My heart goes out to his family. People can truly be cruel in times of crisis. I think the church has done the right thing by handing this situation over to the police and FBI.

        1. it’s true that “no one is above this type of behavior,” on a purely theoretical level. And yet, getting to the point where we are capable of this kind of sin requires a downward spiral. I believe that under the right circumstances, if my life were different, I could be capable of anything. But I don’t think it’s dishonest or hypocritical for me to say that, by the grace of God, at this time, I am above shooting innocent people in a movie theater, raping small children, torturing kittens, and a host of other twisted actions. Some things fall outside the range of normal human depravity, even for the unsaved.

    2. That’s a lot to say without one mention of the victim.

      I want to hug the family of the victim.

      1. Good point, but I would also say that Cindy Schaap is a victim here as well. It’s sad all the way around.

        2. Just sayin’….I seriously doubt that Schaap’s wife didn’t have a clue. I base that on my own experience of cover-up. Yeah, she absolutely knew something wasn’t right, and I’d say there was a huge chance that she knew WHAT it was–everything but the nitty gritty details.

    3. And why, exactly is a pastor under more temptation than the average Joe? That make zero sense to me…a pastor is theoretically surrounded by a Godly, loving wife and family, works everyday with Godly staff, studies the word and prays daily (presumably at least in sermon prep) and goes to work everyday in a CHURCH! In regards to staying out of jail all he has to do is keep his pants on outside the house and not take photos of himself or others below the waist…I’m quite sure many non-Christians and even atheists are able to do this every day because they truly care about the people who are important in their lives. Also, it is my nonprofessional opinion that a 54 yo man who is strongly attracted to girls this young has sexual issues going way beyond “the temptation of sin”.

      1. This kind of pastor is under “more temptation”, because they create a cultic culture of self-worship around themselves. Eventually, IFB will realize that the revolving door of abusers is the result of bad theology.

    4. Thank you for what you said.I am a IBPreacher and you have said so much.It is real easy to cut someone down when they are already down we need to pray for everyone.I believe that if us preachers breaks the law we need to answer to the Lord and to the laws of the land but we also need to not talk bad about anyone we need to pray for them.I want to let everyone out there know that there are alot of good pastors and preachers that is living for the Lord.

  15. My heart breaks for the lemmings that follow Jack Schaap. My wife’s family (not my wife) follow him like everyone else, as a demigod. When my wife broke the news last night to her younger sister (18), her sisters only response was “This changes EVERYTHING…” The whole of their life encompasses this man and his plans and teachings. I pray for those that believe that it is about your behavior, and not resting in Jesus.

    1. and yet here’s the thing…will people continue to live by the teachings of a wolf in sheep’s clothes? Teachings that were passed down from one wolf to another? And yet every teacher in the church keeps teaching the same dogma that puts people in vulnerable positions. It’s time to wake up and get the heck out of there.

    2. I don’t think many of them realized how much they viewed themselves as nothing more than an extension of Schaap’s ego. There must be many with a loss of identity right now searching for some other narcissist to come along and fill that void they have.

      “All of them will want to be led.” – Eddie Wilson
      http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/hammond/hammond-baptist-church-rests-its-faith-in-god-not-any/article_c26537a1-52e8-5a82-8a47-a2498aaa35e7.html

  16. one thing that keeps bothering me is that Schaap keeps being described by various news sources as “charismatic” and “magnetic.” Really? On what planet is someone like Schaap remotely attractive on a personal level? Christian doctrine and practice aside, he comes across to me as an arrogant, unpleasant, ignorant blowhard of a man.
    Or maybe “charismatic” is the only explanation the baffled reporters can imagine for why 15,000 people would follow him? I guess if you drink enough koolaid, anyone can seem attractive.

    1. Keep in mind half of the 15,000 are bus kids that are only there for the candy. They truly don’t know Jack.

      1. You guys are idiots!! And you make me sad!!
        You talk about people as if you are better somehow you are better ans have the right to judge ANYONE! are you God? Do you have the life to back up your so called righteousness you think you have??
        Bro. Schaap helped me so much and no sin will take away the good he did! I love that man, he hurt many people but he hurt God! Not you, you couldn’t be happier he messed up , you should be griving praying and loving his family and the cuurch.. or better yet get off your butts and go get someone saved! Change a life! but what do i know i just like candy!!

      2. You guys are idiots!! And you make me sad!!
        You talk about people as if somehow you are better and have the right to judge ANYONE! are you God? Do you have the life to back up your so called righteousness you think you have??
        Bro. Schaap helped me so much and no sin will take away the good he did! I love that man, he hurt many people but he hurt God! Not you, you couldn’t be happier he messed up , you should be griving praying and loving his family and the cuurch.. or better yet get off your butts and go get someone saved! Change a life! but what do i know i just like candy!!

        2. Excuse me, “Get someone saved”?? Isn’t that God’s job? You truly have been raised under the 1-2-3-pray-after-me style of evangelism. That is not the Gospel by any stretch of the imagination, and the fact that you can tell us to go “get someone saved” reveals a lot about your belief system. If you want to see true grace, read what Pastor’s wife or Don have to say about the subject, please.

    2. Everything is about power. All of it. Power and money. That is where the charisma and magnetism come from. A draw to power.

    3. I don’t think the news agencies went too deep in their analysis to use those terms. They probably assumed since he was a successful pastor of such a large church that he must fit into that mold, not really considering that he just walked into a work of that size in the first place.

      1. Honestly, most of the news stories I’ve seen about this have as sources only news releases from FBC Hammond, statements by official church spokespeople, and FBCH’s official web site.
        A few also called the sheriff’s office to get a statement that they hadn’t filed any charges yet.

        It’s a sad sign of how lazy and shallow most journalism has become.

        1. Gary it is possible that culturally the media views this as a two report piece. First report: the event itself. They monitor for a 24-72 hours and if no new info is revealed the story goes away due to the news cycle. The second report will be if an arrest/charges filed/more victims come forward. It is likely viewed as a local interest story only.

          Guess the media isn’t aware how important FBCH-HAC is in their own little world. /sarcasm

  17. So much pain left in this man’s wake. Yet still they defend him. Speaking out – hurting the cause of Christ? I think not. Such thinking and not a few stones were heaped on the prophets who cried out against sin. Such thinking nailed our Savior to the cross.

  18. Okay, I am probably going to be lambasted for this and I fully recognize it, but it needs to be said. Very few people know what the circumstances were around this yet. I don’t and it’s safe to say most if not all on this site do not. On the surface we have a 50+ year old pastor allegedly having sexual relations and receiving “sexts” from a seventeen year old young lady.

    First, understand that I have no ties to HAC/FBC, and though I grew up in IFB churches and went to FU I no longer associate with that movement and honestly barely consider myself religious at all due to the crap I endured through those years.

    I realize when news like this comes out people are understandably filled with emotion, but I see many people here throwing around the term child molester or rapist with reckless abandon and wonder if these are appropriate for this circumstance. I realize many on this site come from HAC/FBC and thus have a more personal “vendetta” against the institution, which will lead to stronger responses to this than from a person like me. Also, note I am not covering for him. The action of a married pastor having relations with a young woman is definitely inappropriate and wrong. But I have seen at least one other post on this site where the poster accurately described what happened as a choice, but he limited it to only Jack excluding the other party.

    Again we have no real evidence yet, but based on what has been rumored there were “sexts” from the young lady involved. These may have been suggestive words or actual nude photos of her, very few people know and those that do are not saying, but based on this I think it is logical to deduce that this person was not completely opposed to the relationship and even desired it.

    People will try to play the hand of he is older he should know better than to take advantage, and this is a valid point, but I remember being seventeen (not that long ago in fact), and even though I grew up in IFB I had urges and acted on those urges a lot. Seventeen year olds aren’t necessarily the children many would make them out to be. It is very likely if not actual fact that there are seventeen year olds carrying weapons in dangerous places right now in service of our country.

    Again, because I feel I need to repeat myself on this, I am not excusing his behavior. It was wrong. But I think where I would disagree with many of you is why it was wrong and if he should be labeled a child molester, which is a very strong term that should not be thrown around lightly and saved for people who maliciously and sexually attack young children.

    Also, understand I am not blaming her as many fundy types have done in past similar situations. I am just allowing that on the surface, as it stands, it seems she too desired whatever took place.

    I am just asking my fellow ex-fundies on this site to really think about the terms they use and decide if they are truly appropriate to the situation, no matter how much we dislike the institutions represented.

    If it comes out that he did in fact physically rape this young lady and others as has been suggested by comments I’ve read on this site, then clearly my statements become invalid. But at lest for the moment I think we need to step back and wait for info before we label someone with such a strong characterization.

    1. “We have no real evidence yet.” Ah, you make me so tired. The FBI is involved. There is a quote by the FBI saying that if Schaap was involved with a 38 year old woman, they wouldn’t even be in the picture, but they are. They’re involved. Is Schaap an insidious predator even without having raped this woman? Yes. It doesn’t take large efforts or much interwebz know-how to realize that this man shows classic traits of being a predatory sociopath. A sociopath with a pulpit. And do I really, need to remind you that this young lady isn’t just a horny 17 year old with a penchant for older guys? She is a member of the church where Schaap resided as all-powerful, supreme being. Also, she was abused herself as a young woman and was seeking help. Two BIG no-no’s when it comes to barring people from having an ethical relationship. I was a horny 17 year old girl once as well, but according to the law, even horny 16/17 year old girls are considered victims when it comes to entering a relationship with a man in a position of power over her. If you have a problem with that law, go for it. But the law isn’t up for debate in here. Stop blaming the victim or acting like there is nothing to go on. Are you waiting around for more evidence from the Colorado shooter as well? Join reality.

      1. “We” are not the FBI, “we” are not the local sheriff’s office, “we” are not the deacons of FBC. They may have some evidence, but “we” do not. As such it is wise to defer to their findings.

        1. I’m trying to be circumspect in what I write, but I do know from what I’ve heard from his sermons alone, that he was arrogant and twisted. Slapping grandma indeed.

    2. Soooooo what should we call the relationship then? A date? Friends with benefits? Friday night f*** buddies?
      Your post sounds exactly like Chuck(?) Phelps’ defense of the RAPIST in the Tina Anderson case.

      1. “Your post sounds exactly like Chuck(?) Phelps’ defense of the RAPIST in the Tina Anderson case.”

        That is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, Scorpio! I knew I had heard that same tripe somewhere and Scorpio just told me where it was. Thanks.

    3. I think we can agree on unemployed Jackhole until the state gives him some new fancy names if he is convicted.

    4. “If it comes out that he did in fact physically rape this young lady and others…”

      As opposed to what other kinds of rape? Mind rape, Soul rape, Cultural rape? What about rape of trust, childhood, freedom, security?

      He did rape the Truth for his own ends I guess. And he provided ample evidence. It comes from his own mouth on all those YouTube videos each week.

    5. If a seventeen-year-old “young lady” makes sexual advances to a grown man in authority over her, and he fornicates with her, it is his fault. She did not use her mysterious mind control powers to force him to fantasize about her. He decided to follow his penis instead of his conscience. Lust is not a sort of sex pollen that women exude. Lust is a feeling in one’s own inward being. And a grown adult’s decisions are never anyone else’s responsibility.

      1. This. If an under-age girl stood in front of him wearing nothing but a come-hither smile, it was still his responsibility to do nothing except walk out of the room.

    6. @lyce: You need to look up what clergy sexual abuse is. It wasn’t a relationship of equals; he was in power.

  19. SEEN ON FACEBOOK:
    Decades of cheap trinket salvation decisions, plus high pressure to enter the ministry through a diploma mill, has led to the cesspool we witness today. It is time for some of you to denounce and separate!

    1. Surprisingly, only two…but not so surprisingly, they and their families work at FBC or related schools…good old IFB nepotism at work

  23. I feel relief. This man has made my skin crawl ever since I have heard him preach. Others I know didn’t necessarily feel the same way. Now they get it. 🙂 I feel vindicated, although I am sad that someone has been hurt!!!! Sad for the girl, and the family! I hope that this was a one time event for Mr. Schaap, but I get the feeling it isn’t.

  25. How many Hyles clones are salivating over the possiblity of being named pope of the HAC universe?

  27. Once more into the breach. We plow ahead through the fecal blizzard of defenses.

  28. Seriously? The first line in the audio file is “I’m going to say some things that will make you stiffen”

    What a Jackhole

    1. this is the second almost identical post…From two different names.

      What? Is this a lame attempt for West Coast Baptist College to profit off of what is happening at Hyles-Anderson?

      West Coast has its own share of skeletons in its closet. I would not get too vocal here or some of us might just start talking about them.

    2. The movement needs to go away.

      These rouge fundamentalist pastors need to 1) go to a legit seminary, 2) join a denomination so that they can have some accountability, and 3) apologize to those who have spent years earning their PhD’s for their fake doctorates.

  30. “All of them will want to be led.” – Eddie Wilson

    This comment in and of itself is a root cause of all this mess. Looking for the wrong Shepherd.

  31. I just want to say that I am sick and tired of seeing all the comments about how horrible of a person Dr. Jack Schaap is. Sad fact is, the devil won another battle. The another sad fact, is that there is a blog that is letting people “hold a trophy” of a pastor falling into sin. This is why I believe that Ceasar told Paul that if it wasn’t for Christians I would be saved. Yes what he did was wrong but, beating another Christian while he is down is just as wrong and deplorable as the sin that was committed.

    1. I just want to say I am sick and tired of IFB pastors raping underage girls.

      The only battle the devil has won is keeping people like you blind to the truth of the hollowness of the foundation of the IFB movement.

      1. This is for all of us Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die,but after this the judgment:verse 28b So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life ;and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. IS YOUR NAME IN THE BOOK OF LIFE THAT IS THE # 1 QUESTION TO EACH AND EVERYONE THAT READS THIS>

    3. “The devil made him do it”? Pardon me as I go chase down my eyes. They just rolled out of my head …

      1. Yes…if only he had song the “sitting on a tack song” a little more often and a little louder…

    4. Well, to be fair…we also tried to beat him while he was up…and all the justifiable reasons have been stated many times in this thread so just read

      2. Yep. SFL and many of us SFL junkies tried to beat him while he was riding high. Just read some of the old posts about Schaap and FBCH. We’re not going to abruptly change our minds about him now that one aspect of his corruption has been exposed publicly.

    7. No record of Caesar meeting with Paul exists, by the way. And nothing of derision towards Christians for their behavior in the scriptures, either (other than making some folks upset about spreading the doctrine). I think you are confusing the quote of Gandhi about loving the Christ but the Christians not so much?

    1. If Jesus was in First Baptist Church and heard one of Schaap’s perverted messages, what would He say?

      2. Sir, my wife is from FBC Hammond and that is not proven a proven fact sir. So in Jesus name, keep your mouth shut when you don’t know what happened and you just say what your opinion is.

        1. What’s not proven? That he preaches perverted messages? Listen to the audio clip in the original blog post and then you come back and tell us that that is not a vile message from a “supposed” man of God delivered from the pulpit.

        2. Sir, have you ever personally sat and listen to a full sermon of his, or have you just listened to clips of it. Clips can be deceiving.

        4. Actually, David, speaking as one who knew him personally (a very long time ago) and who knew the template from which he was stamped. I don’t think those clips are deceiving at all. In fact, they pretty much display more about him than he probably ever intended to display. Now if we want to talk about taking things out of context, let’s just talk about any time he ever attempted to teach the Bible.

        5. David: I have sat under him. He is sick. Too many of his messages are just like this – crazy and perverted. I’m sure we can all agree that there are more delicate ways to address that topic. This was just shock for shock value’s sake.

        1. I suspect He’s too busy dealing with broken victims to worry about leaving comments on one of many blogs …

    3. I suspect He would say something akin to this:

      “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

      Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye are like unto whited sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.”

      1. Oh dear, I realize in retrospect this can be totally misinterpreted! I meant that I believe Christ would say something akin to this to Schaap, not to the SFL commenters!

    4. “If Jesus were on this blog, what would he say to all these comments.”

      I am very confident He would confirm that Schaap is a wolf who has perverted Communion with his heretical teachings.

    3. So are you really saying a man lusting after your 16 year old daughter is the exact same thing as him having sex with your 16 year old daughter? Really???

    4. That’s so hilarious….especially because I’m sure you meant it in a serious way. :mrgreen:

      We’re all “biblical adulterers”!! 😈 🙄

  34. But according to the Bible in Gods eyes, every sin, no matter how big or small, is big enough that Jesus had to die on the cross for. And by the way, don’t use the word rape when you don’t know the facts. The fact is that no one except the deacon board and top official from the church know what happen.

    1. I did’t use the word “rape,” David — learn to read. I used the word “sex.” Or are sex and rape equal in your eyes? If you’ve sat under Schaap’s perverse preaching for any period of time, it wouldn’t surprise me at all. And no, not all sins are equal. God has most certainly ranked some sins as abominations — read your Bible. And then we can further categorize “sins” and “crimes.” THIS is a potential CRIME that is being investigated by the FBI.

      And you still didn’t answer my question: Would you feel the same about a man lusting after your wife or daughter as you would him having sex with her? The EXACT same? Because according to you, there is NO difference whatsoever.

    2. I used the word rape. The police and FBI get involved in those cases.
      I assume you have sex with your wife David. Do the police call in the FBI when that happens? No. But they do when a man has sex with an underage girl. That is called rape. Sorry if you don’t like the term.

      1. If you actually would read what the media has said, the FBI and the Sherriff DO NOT BELIEVE anything criminal occurred.

        1. David – here is a link to a story that says otherwise:

          http://www.nwitimes.com/news/opinion/columnists/mark-kiesling/mark-kiesling-shades-of-jack-schaap-and-none-of-them/article_8091cb5b-0716-530a-b935-c08a448aad59.html

          A quote from that article from a detective involved in the investigation:

          “If this had been a 38-year-old woman, we would not even be having this conversation,” said a detective involved in the investigation. “That would be between him and his wife. But this is a criminal case.”

          If you have updated information via links to news stories, please pass them along.

        3. A representative from the CHURCH said he didn’t believe anything criminal had taken place. If the authorities had agreed, they would not have called in the FBI. The investigation would have already concluded. It has not.

        4. David, direct quote from a detective involved in the case: “If this had been a 38-year-old woman, we would not even be having this conversation. That would be between him and his wife. But this is a criminal case.”

    3. So you honestly believe God takes the same view in regards to (1) a guy who looks at a woman and thinks, “It would be nice to have sex with her” VS. (2) a 54yo pastor who says God called him to lead a body of believers as their shepherd, and who secretly engages in an illegal sexual relationship (of some sort) with a 16yo member of his congregation? Is that what you are saying? Seriously?

  35. Not that it will do any good but here is an article from the Chicago Tribune from 2 hours ago:

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-hammond-church-fired-pastor-seeks-reconciliation-with-wife-20120801,0,2089975.story

    And a direct quote from the article:

    “The investigation regarding allegations against Pastor Jack Schapp, involving alleged misconduct with a juvenile,” is continuing, according to the statement from the office of Lake County Sheriff John Buncich.”

    1. And let me add that in the article a spokesman for the church is making statements that the age of the girl is in question. They are just trying to minimize the impact on the church. It’s nothing but spin control. Remember Sandusky was not the only one to fall at Penn State. If any of the deacons had knowledge of Schaap’s criminal activity and didn’t report, they will be under investigation. But in the meantime it will cloud the truth and facts.

      1. And the fact that a church worker was directly involved in taking the girl to and from him — well, there is definitely culpability here.

  36. Jack Schaap wishes David was the local Sheriff.

    Hey David. You shouldn’t be worried about the people on this board’s opinion. You should be worried about the guys’ opinion in the jail Jack’s going to end up in. Depending on the kid’s age, Jack’s biggest rape defense might be needed AFTER the trial.

  37. ya’ll are haters just waiting for him to mess up. everyone makes mistakes. i’m not justifying his actions, just saying none of us are any better.

    1. “None of us are any better” you say?

      I can’t speak for you…but I certainly don’t have sex with underage kids.

      If being outraged at such sick behavior makes me a hater…well, I can live with that.

      Ironic how Fundy pastors can preach against specific individuals and their sins from the pulpit all.day.long, but as soon as one of them get in SFL’s crosshairs their sycophants cry “foul!”.

    2. It boggles the mind the word games fundies will play.

      If I disagree with them on such issues like CCM, women wearing pants, number of church services per week, and other non-Biblical issues, I’m a “rank liberal”, and I’m “living in sin and rebellion.”

      One of their famous pastors rapes a girl (yes, it is rape whether it can be legally prosecuted in this case or not) and cheats on his wife in the process, and he only “made a mistake.”

      Do you listen to yourselves? 😯

  38. I am part of an IFB church, and this is makes me sick to my stomach. I can only imagine how God feels. I heard Jack Schapp preach a message about our Bible, that we don’t have an inspired or even a preserved Word of God. I am not interested in a debate on this issue, but with this kind of stand there is no absolute authority, no absolute truth. The preacher becomes the authority and make their own rules. Jesus is coming soon and cleaning house. He wants a pure bride. For those of you who make your own rules, you better clean it up. The rest of us better keep our eyes on Christ and tell others about Him

    1. This did not come as a surprise to God. How does God feel? He is not some feeble old grandfather type sitting around heaven wringing his hands fretting over how this episode is going to “hurt the Cause of Christ.”
      He established the end from the beginning. He is not a reactionary god, if he were merely a reactionary god then he would not be worth worshipping. All of creation stands fast according to the word of his power.

      1. I think he meant that God is sickened by what Schaap has allegedly done with a young girl. Sicked by the sin. Even if God is not surprised he is still sickened by sin right?

        1. Yes, I believe God is grieved by sin and hates sin but he is never suprised by it. I also do not believe God views sin in a relative fashion the way we do but his view against sin is absolute.

          I see God not being sickened in the same way we might be where we become disheartened and dispairing, but as GOD he is grieved as a Sovereign King would be knowing that he has already dealt with the root cause and he is now biding his time to show his power, authority and ultimate victory over sin so that all the world will see and in that awesome moment all of creation will kneel, worship, give praise and say “You are worthy!”

        2. I agree with Phil and Don. No need to pick apart my words. It is what it is and is easy to understand. I completely get it that my God is all knowing and is all powerful.

        3. I should have been more accurate with my words that God is grieved by sin. When I used sickened I was trying to communicate the God viewed this as morally repugnant.

    2. Thanks for this. I do believe I predicted this exact reaction further up the thread.

  39. Man, this is sad. I’m curious what my family will think of this. Although, they did feel he “jumped the shark” when he said that the KJV was not inspired. They kind of pretended he didn’t exist after that.

    I really feel for any young person who is under the influence of someone like him. I remember idolizing my pastors growing up, and would have taken the chance to get “council” if I needed. I would have not ever thought that they might take advantage of that trust…

    I truly feel for the victims in this, the young girl, his wife, and the church. I wonder how many people will take stock, and go back and truly look at what the man said, and realize how many warning signs were there? Hopefully it causes churches to not give so much power and control over them.

    Going back and looking at what he’s written and said, he definitely seemed to have an unhealthy obsession with sex.

    Also, I notice that he’s been “scrubbed clean” from FBC, and his own website is “down”. Anything that can be removed has been…

    In cases like this, I would say that evidence does not support something “innocent” here.

    1. Really? Our hope is in another fallible man and their man made school? I do hope you’re being sarcastic. Putting men and their institutions on pedestals is a big part of the problem. btw, they cover things up too, the mentality there is to accuse people of gossip when folks tell the truth.

    2. that is an interesting admission about where your / their hope lies…

      My only hope is with Jesus.

    3. I left Lancaster Baptist because I felt it was an abusive place too. A lot of their staff came from Hyles, after all.

      So glad to be gone and free from that legalistic nonsense.

  41. can someone please explain the “slapping grandma” references? It must be something Schaap said in one of his crazy rants . . . er,sermons. I want to be in on the fun 😈

  42. I feel badly for his wife. I don’t know her personally, but she seems like a lovely enough woman…especially to put up with him all of these years. I heard her speak at a conference a few years back. She said that as wives, if we ever disagree with our husbands or don’t understand them, it’s our job to figure out why our husbands are right. Seriously, she said that. Everything inside me was saying “No, no, no, this is not right!” I hope she does not blame herself for this. A common theme at their conferences is that everything is the woman’s fault because we have bad attitudes, don’t respect our husbands, etc. Basically, if you are the perfect Stepford wife, you have a pretty good chance at a near-perfect marriage. Well, sometimes you just marry a jerk and it doesn’t matter how perfect you are…he’s just a jerk. Thankfully, my husband said he prefers a wife who has her own mind and uses it! I feel badly for Jack’s wife because she was raised in this environment and it’s really all she knows. Her family, friends, faith and livelihood are all probably connected to FBCH and HAC. Hopefully, if she’s as nice as she seems to be, she will kick him out and find a nice guy who will respect her.

    1. Such sad and dangerous teaching. Nabal wasn’t right, and I’m glad Abigail didn’t sit around trying to think of a way to prove that he must be right. Instead she stepped out in faith and did the right thing and saved lives.

    2. Also (seriously) sometimes the best way a wife can “honor” her husband is to kick his ass when he’s acting like an idiot. Obviously, with the goal of restoration… but sometimes ya gotta be harsh when someone is going wrong.

    3. notreally–You are correct. And my opinion is that is a stupid thing to say and teach. If my wife never corrected me or pointed out faults, I would have done even more moronic things than I have. I know she was taught this drivel growing up, but happily didn’t drink too much kool-aid.

      jason–great point. She is a much better suitable helper when she truly helps me out. I would much rather have a helper suitable for me than an IFB “help-meet”.(I hate that made-up pseudo word!)

    4. The sad thing is, because of the teachings that they have heard their whole lives, many in fundamentalism will blame poor Mrs. Schaap. I truly feel bad for her, having her world blown apart like this.

  44. I have been a member for over 20 years and during this sermon I was so creeped out and I said to myself, “This is it. I am done here.” You left out the part where he infers that John 15 and John 17 are talking about sex.

      1. apparently Schaap equates taking the Lord’s Supper to having sex with God. Or so I’ve heard.

  45. Galatians 6:1 (KJV) Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

    Sad that so many christians are rejoicing in the fall of a man of God! Remember the story of David in the Bible! I have never grown so much in my walk with God than under this ministry and Dr.Schaap. Praying for FBC!!!

    1. How can you grow spiritually at FBC, with such classics as “Keep Your Stinking Feet Out of My Drinking Water” and other great Hyles signature messages? And those were the better days.

    2. Alesha, take the former pastor out of the equation if you can – just for a moment. If this exact same story came out about a liberal minister, how would you react? What if it were President Obama? How did you react when Bill Clinton’s adultery was exposed?

      The worst thing you can do for Mr. Schapp right now is enable his sense of arrogance and denial. I wonder how much his victims grew under his ministered while he spewed judgement from the pulpit.

    3. Restoration follows true repentance. I haven’t actually heard anything from Schaap himself. Has he confessed? Has he grieved over his sin the way David did in Ps. 51? Has he utterly owned his own depravity without trying to pass the blame on to others? To restore a man who has not humbly and fully confessed his sin would be folly.

    4. Rejoicing in the fall of a man of God? No! We are however responding the way David did in Ps. 35: “Since they hid their net for me without cause
      and without cause dug a pit for me,
      may ruin overtake them by surprise—
      may the net they hid entangle them,
      may they fall into the pit, to their ruin.
      Then my soul will REJOICE in the Lord
      and delight in his salvation.
      My whole being will exclaim,
      “Who is like you, O Lord?
      You rescue the poor from those too strong for them,
      the poor and needy from those who rob them.”

  46. Joseph walked away from Potiphers wife. JS could’ve done the same as well. He made a bad choice, and is going to suffer the consequences. God is a fair God.

  47. One more thing. Anyone defending him. How would you feel if that girl was your 16/17 year old daughter? Would you be singing a different tune?

  48. Zuzanna Anderson (wife of pastor Steven Anderson) actually linked this blog entry to her blog. I guess she must read SFL too. Who knew?!? 😯

    1. The thought of her reading “SFL” amazes me in more ways than one, but if you’re reading this, Ms. Anderson, hi there!

  49. Wow.
    If we were still in the dark about his illegal, sexual shenanigans, I would assume he had a dirty mind just from that message alone. And if I were that young guy to whom he told had a nice looking gf, then proceeded to ask me if she’s “good in bed” I would have gotten up and left, after a few choice words.
    I feel sorry for his wife.

  50. I think in this sermon Schaap just proved that one particular man did not know what his daughter was up to. Furthermore, the bent rules of FBC such as women’s dress code has pretty much made those girls crazy and desparate to get the chance to take their skirts off. What business is it of Schaap’s asking young boys in his office if they’ve slept with girls at the church and how the sex was?

    I think his most common questions just bit him in the $@! “Are you safe in how you act?” The stuff that Schaap harped on the most, the heat he put on the young men of FBC took the light off of the wrongdoing under his own roof. Isn’t that usually how it goes? “We let child fornicators teach our kids.” This excerpt is about as creepy as it gets. My guess, knowing this church and the IFB, is this got leaked and the deacons had to cooperate. Here’s who I feel sorry for… 1.)The girl in question and her family. 2.)Cindy Schaap. 3.)Every Christian and non-Christian under the roof of FBC. Keep the faith in God, people.

    Let me just add this: this guy, like Hyles brainwashed the parents of FBC into believing that they should take their kids to the final authority, the pastor. The way Schaap spoke was so obscene.

    “I don’t need more business. But when your kid reaches 16, send them to me.” Wow, this is erie!!!! Oh, “…and you’re dirty yourself.”

    “One thing I’m committed to, I want your kids to buy in.” Wake up!!!!!

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