Preachers, Scandal

Last Gasps

763 Comments

From all indications, Jack Schaap, the infamous pastor of the First Baptist Church of Hammond and chancellor of Hyles-Anderson college, is on his way out the door. For now he’s on “indefinite medical leave” which in fundamentalism is generally accepted code for “about to be quietly fired for doing something horrible.” Word to the wise: keep an eye on the Wednesday evening service at FBC this week. It might be worth your time.

Update 1 (7:30p.m.) The story has officially broken by CBS Chicago so I now feel free to share it here. Christ have mercy.

But at least Jack managed to get one last burst of crazy in before he headed for an undisclosed location to await this fate and here it is. From July 8th here are some relevant excerpts from his sermon “What Mom And Dad Don’t Know Will Hurt Him.” Only click that link for audio if you have a strong constitution.

01:20 Let me ask your daughter something. You date him? Have you
kissed him? Ya’ sleeping with him? Multiple times?

04:04 And I’ll look at the person and say, who ya sleeping with? Your
kid’s problem(s) isn’t, the, did you see how short her skirt is, no,
the problem is, she takes her skirt, and everything else off. Your
kids are coming to me and telling me they have sexual experiences in
the hundreds; hundreds; hundreds.

05:04 Is she good in bed? How many times have you slept with her? Are
you uncomfortable?

05:46 You know, the most common question I ask our teenagers: are you
safe in how you act? Mom and dad, you understand the language? That’s
my most common question. In Baptist Church, in Hammond, Indiana, are
you practicing safe sex?

09:10 I want to say to my fellow brethren cremate me over this. Absolutely destroy me on the blog pages. Massacre. We’ve lost lost
scores of HAC students because pastors get furious when I talk about this. But who wrote the book on sexuality folks?

09:47 Nobody wants to be more intimate with you than God does. The language that Jesus Christ used when he talked to his Father about what he wanted for his people. Read John 17 mom and daddy and tell me how intimate he wanted your kids to be with him. Read John 15 and ask me if Jesus Christ just wanted to shake hands. [whispering] If you abide in me, and my words abide in you. I in you. You in Me. We in the Father, the Father in us. Don’t try to reach some ambiguous theological nonsense in that. Jesus was saying, can I put it in language that everybody understands. He says “I want be the most intimate of intimates with you.”

10:50 But if we don’t get it figured out that we’re connected with God. And when your teenager goes through adolescence and they start changing, and daddy, you don’t want to touch her anymore, you know you don’t want to hug her anymore; trust me, she’s got a boyfriend lined up who’ll be happy to touch her.

11:50 Mom, dad, listen to me. I don’t need more business, but when your children reach that age, and they start going through that 13, 14, 15 year stage, send them to me, I’ll talk to them. Please don’t look at me like I’m stupid, why are you talking this way? Because I don’t want to lose your kids, that’s why. Because you don’t want to find out about it do you mom and daddy. And I’ll tell you three reasons why. Number one, because you’re dirty yourself.

12:42 I was one of those little kids that went to a public school. You’ve heard me say it, I watched sex take place in the Junior High hallway, but I was a virgin when I got married.

13:09 You know what grieves my heart. I’m looking around and see some of you men sleeping and I want to walk up to you. I can tell you how many girls your son has slept with; I know. He lives at home with you right now. You’re sleeping. You’re sound asleep. I want to walk up to you and say wake up dad, your son is whoring around.

15:03 Do you know how many times your daughter sneaks out in the wee hours of the morning to have sex with her boyfriend? Well, not my
daughter. I’ll take pictures for ya’.

763 thoughts on “Last Gasps”

    1. I’ll just add these to the long list of creepy things I’ve heard fundie leaders say to and about teenagers.

  3. His manner of speaking causes an instinctive discomfort for me. He’s got some interesting fixations.

  4. This excerpt reads like an advertisement:

    “11:50 Mom, dad, listen to me. I don’t need more business, but when your children reach that age, and they start going through that 13, 14, 15 year stage, send them to me, I’ll talk to them.”

    Apparently he did more than talk to them.

    1. My jaw literally dropped when I read that part of the transcript…I’m pretty familiar with fundy craziness, but that is just nuts

    1. I don’t know why this turn of events surprises anyone with any “well-known” (i.e. arrogant) fundy. It happens over and over and over. Too full of themselves with no actual relationship with God.

      1. In light of this post, I better clarify: “no actual relationship – sexual or not – with God.” 😯

  6. Ok, I’m not an American so I don’t know the ins and outs of your education system… but is it common for kids to have sex in the corridors of Junior High Schools? While the other kids are watching?

    Actually, y’know what this reminds me of? You know when God got ticked off with Nebuchadnezzar’s pride and decided he was going to turn him into a wild beast for a while? I think Jack has just started growing finger nails like talons and munching the lawn. Seriously.

    1. “…but is it common for kids to have sex in the corridors of Junior High Schools?”

      No. It’s just typical fundy bluster about the evils of anything not done their way.

    2. He specifically said “public school” as a scare to the parents. There is no more experimentation going on in public schools than in the Christian schools, except in the science classrooms. Although granted there is more opportunity in a public school, as the sexes are less segregated.

      1. I have a feeling it happens more in the “Christian” schools, because there’s so much repression, and no distinction is made by Fundies like Schaap between adolescent dating and full-on sexual intercourse. But, of course, I have no way to prove that.

        Single-sex schools, of course, also have a lot of sexual experimetation going on.

        But Schaap didn’t watch sex going on the hallway of his Junior High. He’s just telling tall tales again.

    3. Oh, goodness no. I suppose it might be possible that sex has happened on school grounds of high schools in the United States, and maybe even junior high schools, but I highly doubt it’s ever happened in public! Schaap is just a nutcase.

      1. FTR… It does happen in the hallways of public schools! As crazy as it sounds – it is true. I won’t go into details as to “how”, but let’s just say they are creative.

        1. Sadly, it indeed does happen. I see teachers turn s blind eye to iteven in their classrooms. I work in the public schools off and on in various supportive roles.

        2. Seriously?

          Penetrative sex in a school hallway during school hours, without a circle of disbelieving/sneering/stunned students blocking traffic or somebody going “OMIGOD THEY’RE DOING IT” and running to tell her best friend at top volume?

          Seriously?

        3. I’ve worked in Christian and public schools. There’s a hell of a lot more accountability in public schools. Kids will try to get away with stuff anywhere, but trust me, if kids were caught in the act in a public school, there’d be a tsunami of hell to pay by the community and law enforcement.

        4. I’m a public school teacher and this past year we had a couple of sophomores have sex in a small cubby hole (no door or anything) beside an ice machine. That hallway isn’t well used especially during classes. They were caught by a teacher and punished quite severely. A lot of the other students found out and thought it was disgusting that they students would do it on school property and during school hours.

        5. My first boyfriend put his arm around my shoulders at a school thing because we were sitting in theater seats crammed so closely together that it was somebody’s arm around somebody else’s shoulders or somebody’s hand on somebody else’s leg. The principal popped up out of nowhere to order us to separate. He also made one poor girl go home because her sweater showed a thin band of skin above her jeans. This was a public high school, den of fornication.

          OTOH, he walked right past this one couple that used to suck face in the hall near the office every morning. Apparently this was because she wore black makeup–black lipstick and blush even–and he carried a (gasp!) large jackknife for digging rocks out of the exposed parts of his beat-up motorcycle. Scaaaary. 🙄

          Oh, and the Catholic K-6 students used to go completely hogwild when they entered PS. You know, they cut their hair in weird ways and experimented with candy-colored hair dye and pierced their ears!!!! multiple times!!!!!!!! So they had to be sinning, right?

          And it was the naive freshman girls with the inattentive parents and the 20-something “boyfriends” who turned up pregnant and alone, regardless of religious background.

    4. What he meant to say was “I was appalled at all the hand-holding going on and eye babies being made”

      It’s practically the same thing as sex in the fundy world

    6. To Shaap’s mind, a boy and a girl walking too close, holding hands, or (heaven forbid) kissing, are already having sex. I’ve never understood the “reasoning” behind it either.

      I grew up going to public school myself, and aside from occasionally hearing about students getting expelled because they got caught going at it in an unused classroom or somewhere else hidden and out of the way, people usually didn’t have sex in school. Certainly not in the hallways.

  7. This is huge news. Sadly it will be covered up by the powers-that-be. We can hope that if anything illegal took place, charges are filed.

    1. If the allegations are true, it’s been reported to the police and they have photographic evidence. So it can’t be completely covered up.

      I just wish we had more than one source. We really don’t know what’s going on yet.

      1. Wow. Thank you for posting this! I really hope he gets prosecuted to the fullest extent and every dirty bit comes out so this causes a ripple through fundystan and forces members to take a look at who they’ve put their hope in. I also hope there is restoration and redemption for the victims. That they receive love and care for the atrocities done to them. 🙁

  8. Is… is he certifiably insane? I’m not listening to the message–I definitely couldn’t stomach it–but from reading the excerpts… really?!

    And my word. I know that premarital sex happens. I know it’s even common. But… is it really that common in Fundyland?! I mean with people other than evil men claiming to be men of God, that is.

    Well, we can only pray he really IS out. Maybe this is the beginning of a new, vaguely better era of Fundyism?

    1. The audio is about 100 times worse than reading the excerpts. I only made it about 5 minutes. And I have a strong stomach for this kind of crap.

    2. No, he’s not insane. Just a coldly calculating power (and, it appears child) abusing sinner who finally got caught. I would imagine this will open a flood of threatened and suppressed victims.

      It is hard to know how common pre-marital sex is in fundystan, because kids there see covered up lies so often, they think that it is how to live. Many of them learn early the fine art of the cover-up from masters in the art. Kids aren’t stupid. They see things adults refuse to see. The problem here, if the allegations do turn out to be true, is the blindness of those who will refuse to believe, blaming Satan and evil men trying to bring down “the Lord’s anointed”.

      1. Actually, I think he exhibits a bit of insanity in this sermon – it almost seems like a cry for help, it’s so over-the-top sexually charged.

        You can’t push down cognitive dissonance forever – it will come out somehow, somewhere.

      1. You could be right, Scorp. It may have been the mere sight of illicit toe cleavage that lured him from the path. I bet the nails were painted Jezebel Red, too.

  10. He is out guys. His own people finally turned him in. The news will break soon from what I hear.

  11. I believe in pre-marital abstinence, but this sermon is one of the nastiest ways to communicate that message that I’ve ever heard. Just reading the above makes me feel dirty.

    1. I feel precisely the same way as you. I have heard excellent messages on the topic of abstinence and purity that were delicate and treated the topic with respect, while still being clear. This was NOT one of them.

    2. My sense of humor is certifiably naughty, and I think this guy is a pervert on steroids.

    3. Exactly. It’s the emphasis that tips the scale from biblical exhortation to what seems like his own personal perverse interest.

  12. I searched for confirmation of the news, but couldn’t find anything. Did anyone else find a report?

  13. Here is my FB status from yesterday:

    Here is some advice from one of the leaders in the IFB movement(Bob Gray) regarding talking about why Jeff Owens resigned his church:

    BEWARE OF GOSSIP MONGERS ON THE INTERNET
    1) Stay off the Gossip Forums

    … 2) Never assume the worst

    3) Assume the best and leave the rest up to God

    4) Do not trust any one who will not use their name

    5) PRAY and NEVER speculate

    6) Satan is the accuser of the brethren-do not join him
    ____________________________________________________
    1. They want complet control of the Dissemination of Information so all other outlets were branded as “Gossip.”

    2. Never assume the worst? While I agree it is wrong to “assume” anything human nature is bent to assuming stuff that may or may not be true. That is why is is so important to get the unvarnished truth out in the open as soon as possible.

    3. Practically speaking this advice is the mantra for cults. Better advice would have been: “Assume Nothing and Pray for the best, it is now in God’s hands.”
    Conversely, this wording leaves the door open for assuming that something is bad enough that there is nothing more we can do about it so we have left it in God’s hands.

    4. This one I agree with to a point, but given the Mafia mentality of those who blindly and unquestioningly support these qusi-cult leaders… I would be reluctant to use my name around them for fear of my family’s safety and well being.

    5. Pray… yes! Pray that the truth is quick to see the light of day for good or ill.

    6. By adding that caveat he went a bridge too far. This almost certainly means that something needs to be brought into the light of day and dealt with openly. That is something that IFB pastors are notorious for not doing. They circle the wagons and supress the truth by any means because they equate their reputations and ministries to Christ. They will lie, coverup, and do whatever is necessary to save their ministry from scandal and do it under the guise of “the cause of Christ.”

    Lord Action posited:
    “I cannot accept your canon that we are to judge Pope and King unlike other men with a favourable presumption that they did no wrong. If there is any presumption, it is the other way, against the holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority: still more when you superadd the tendency or certainty of corruption by full authority. There is no worse heresy than the fact that the office sanctifies the holder of it.”

    http://persifler.wordpress.com/2010/04/12/corruption-is-directly-proportional-to-the-level-of-control-that-is-available/

    The wagons are circling in order to protect the ministry for “the cause of Christ.” Ministries like FBCH/HAC are too big to fail.

  14. Wow… I listened to it, and I don’t think I will be able to eat for the rest of the day.

  15. Of course the FBC Hammond folks will attempt damage control but surely the truth will eventually hit the news and spread like a giant earthquake throughout Fundystan. I wonder how many Fundys this will slap into reality?

    2. “Slapped” into reality. I see what you did there.

      (But it won’t. Fundies will continue to think they are above the world, not of the world, and this was just an example of one man’s failure, likely due to the stresses of being so holy. IF they believe it at all!)

      1. Stony wrote, “…likely due to the stresses of being so holy…”

        I have already seen that excuse given. 🙄

    3. Though some churches, like my former fundy compound, never liked Jack Schaap and separated from him after the death of the not-so-benevolent dictator. So they’ll be like, HA!!

      This is the same church, mind you, that covered up the video voyeurism last year….

  16. A couple things:

    1. “But I was a virgin when I got married.” Who cares? Throwing that in to shame those who aren’t virgins, or weren’t virgins when they were married, isn’t edifying in the least. Schaap has always been good about preaching himself and his own filthy rag righteousness.

    2. “Read John 15 and tell me if Jesus just wanted to shake hands.” I don’t want to have sex with Jesus, and Jesus doesn’t want to have sex with me.

    1. Aaaaaaaamen! That was the creepiest point of all. I don’t think God was talking about THAT kind of intimacy.

      It’s almost a mystical view.

  17. I’m not sure what point he was trying to make with that sermon. Abstinence? It comes across as almost voyeuristic.

  18. That is a sick, sick perverted man. What does him being a virgin when he got married have anything to do with the price of tea in China except for the fact to try and make himself look holier than tho? If I heard a sermon like that from my pastor… well I guess there is a reason I left that movement…

    1. “to try and make himself look holier than thou” Of course, that’s the whole point of his position.

  19. “The only thing that can remove this ring, is the engagement ring from the man that we approve of….”

    GROSS………..

  20. Well, he did say he was taking pictures ~
    He has ALWAYS creeped me out.
    Some people should not read the Bible if they read it like a playboy. If you get “that special feeling” while reading the Bible ~ YOU ARE NOT HONORING GOD. Bibleporn 😳

    Praying for all who will stand for right at FBCH. Praying for his victims, because I doubt there is just one.

    1. Ugh, I missed the “taking pictures” bit the first time through. As if it wasn’t creepy and disturbing enough.

      1. “Do you know how many times your daughter sneaks out in the wee hours of the morning to have sex with her boyfriend? Well, not my daughter. I’ll take pictures for ya’.”

        I’m not sure if he’s offering here to take pictures of “your” daughter having sex with her boyfriend, or of Schaap’s daughter not having sex in the wee hours of the morning, but either way, it seems pretty creepy. And either way, my answer is no, Jack, I’m not interested in your pictures.

        1. I had problems with that statement, also. The first thought that came to mind was, “And exactly how do you know you can take pictures?” Even from someone innocent, that’s a really weird statement. Unless you are the “boyfriend”,

        2. I thought he meant pictures of his daughter asleep in bed, to prove she’s not out and about. Where’s the surveillance camera recording? Better yet, make it a live webcam, 24 hours a day.

    3. Ah, you beat me to it, Scorpio. I posted my reply to Stony before I read this far down.

  22. I cant beleive what I am reading!!!! You people are nothing but gosippers and need to get RIGHT WITH GOD NOW!!! pastor Schapp has done nothing wrong but stand for Jesus and this is obviuosely an attack by SATAN!!!! Wheres the evidence? There is no police report at all!! Just wild speculations by liberal media sight like this one!!!!
    You ar sick and twisted. Theirs a special place in hell for people who mock GOD and MEN OF GOD!!!! Ill be praying that Pasot Schaap heals from his illness. What will you be doing at the JUDEGMENT SEAT????

      1. But funnily enough, the Poe has a grain of truth. God will not be mocked. Which is precisely what Mr Schaap is finding out, it seems to me.

    4. kjvictory,
      would you like a refill on that glass of kool-aid?
      REALLY!!!! time and again people have come forward! if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, guess what…… it’s a DUCK!
      and for your edification and education. there is proof!

      btw, next time check spell check and grammar check before posting

      sincerly,
      enough of this bull$4!+

    5. Really KJVicotry? Really? I always find the, “this is just an attack from Satan” excuse. Last time I checked the gates of Hell can’t prevail against the church, but God’s judgement can. These things don’t surprise me anymore. If during the investigation they find crack and bath salts in Schaap’s desk I still wouldn’t be surprised. When it becomes money money money instead of Jesus Jesus Jesus it always comes crashing down.

      1. I dont know Bob Gray but you sir need to shave. Ar you honoring GOD with facial hair???

        3. Therer is nothing funny about facial hair!! GOD commands beards to be shaven. Isiah 15:2

        4. @Bro Don,

          No it is not me but it is good to see someone else standing in the gap and making up the hedge.

        6. AMEN Pastor Fred!! Finally a fellow cHRISTIAN i CAN CALL BROTHER. This web blog is spewing faslhoods about one the greats of the faith. it burdnes my heart.
          pastor feel free to e-mail me for my e-mail is KJVictory@juno.com.

        7. Dear Brother KJVictory,

          I just sent you an email and an invitation to my church. If you are ever in the area you should drop by for a visit.
          This site is filled with wickedness and bitterness. It is good to see someone else taking a stand for what is right here.
          I cannot believe the accusations that are being hurled against this great man of God just because he preached a creepy sermon. It doesn’t mean he is a pervert. I preach against homosexuality and Calvinism nearly every week but that doesn’t mean I am a gay Calvinist does it?

        9. Of course not pastor Fred. Yiu don’t find the word Calvinsim in the prefect King James Bible do you? Of course. not. We all need to preach against the gay agenda!!! I look forward to sweet fellowship with alikeminded Crhistian like yourself. GOD BLESS AMERCIA and help US!!

        10. Amen and amen again dear Brother! I read my KJB 1611 through from the title page to the maps 7 times last year. The only place I saw the word Calvinism was where I had written in the wide margins.
          I am looking forward to fellowshipping with you. It gets lonely out here standing up for what is right in the Central Valley. There are no churches here. At least none of our stripe so I have to seek out fellowship on message boards.
          I pray that your ministry will be greatly blessed as you stand against Calvinism and the gay agenda. I have been surprised to see how often those things go together.
          It will be good to meet you in person sometime dear brother. I am on my way to preach outside of a gay, Mexican disco in Fresno. If you come out for a visit maybe we could go preach there together.

        12. Pastor Fred BROTHER. I lookd up Fresno on amap and it show s you are in California. GOD BLESS YOU. My pastor always preached that was were the gays and fornicators come from. It’s not surprising that you have Calvinists out there to. It would be a blessing to street preach with you,

        14. I don’t know about Bro KJVictory but allow me to introduce myself.

          I am Pastor Fred Poe of the Gloriously Saved Baptist Tabernacle and Bible College of Bakersfield, California.
          “We believe that tulips are nice flowers but bad doctrine” (TM)

          We are located off the bypass in the Big Lots shopping center right between the nail salon and the tatoo parlor. Come on out and see us.

        15. Pastor Fred – aka Proud Fundamentilist. That was some stellar work as today has been.

        16. “I am looking forward to fellowshipping with you. It gets lonely out here standing up for what is right in the Central Valley…It will be good to meet you in person sometime dear brother.”

          I think Pastor Fred and KJVictory just agreed to go out on a date 😆

    7. I’m more concerned with anyone he might have passed his illness on to. My prayers, if the allegations are true, is for the victims. If this has happened, them we need to remember these kids are victims of criminal action. They are going to need help, but are quite likely going to receive blame.

      I believe we’ve been Poed, but that doesn’t change my thoughts and concerns. That attitude will be prevalent in Fundystan.

    8. Wait, you’ll be praying for Jack Schaap while at the judgement seat? How does that work?

      2. It works according to GODS PERFECT WORD the King James Bible!! What od you read the NIV perversion?
        Romans 2:5

    9. This sounds like the Catholic rebuttal to any type of dissent: Pray, Pay, and Obey. Don’t you dare question that priest that is diddling the kids; he’s a man of God. Rather than solve the problem, they preach God’s judgment and hell on those who dare to question the inproprieties.

      1. Thanks for the false, uninformed anti-Catholic rant for today, BobH. I would have thought your last name would be Chick–but maybe H is just a middle initial!

        1. I don’t know how many Catholic churches you have been to, but I was born and raised Orthodox Catholic, and I know what I am talking about. Priests are often afraid of their bishops, and they will do most anything to crush dissent. Any Catholic who has been turned away from the chalice can testify to that, and there are plenty. Remember the bishop of Lincoln, Nebraska who back in the early 90s told Cathlics in his diocese that they were not to approach the chalice if they were associated with a number of movements that he didn’t like. And what about Cardinal Law of Boston who crushed dissent. When the law came back to haunt him on some of his dealings, he suddenly departed for Rome where he was amply rewarded? And the latest fiasco in Philadelphia where the Cardinal silenced all those who attempted to blow the whistle on preditorial priests. His Monseigneur was left holding the bag with the lame excuse that the “Cardinal made me do it.” Any Catholic who is honest will tell you that in Orthodox and Catholic churches, you are expected to shut up and support the system, right or wrong. The expression Pay, Pray, and Obey was drummed into our heads for decades, and the abuse went on. Catholics and Orthodox are now wising up. The Russian Orthodox just dumped their Metropolitan because he was covering for a sexually abusive clergyman.

    10. Hey, KJVictory,

      I am probably in the fundamentalist category, but Schaap’s July 8 sermon should have gotten him fired without the tawdry details that have come to light since then.

      Jesus made a statement about children and millstones that makes me shudder for the people at Hammond FBC who have been covering for Schaap, who covered for Dave Hyles, who sent Chris Settlemoir into the ministry, etc., etc.

      For the sake of the gospel and for the sake of the community it claims to serve, FBC Hammond should padlock its doors, melt down the graven images of Jack Hyles, and use its remaining money to make restitution to the victims.

      May I also point out that not all fundamentalists cover for these creeps? David Cloud, who has been criticized here, has been very consistent in pointing out the abuse coverups at FBC Hammond, HAC, and other places. I know many fundamentalist Baptists who would never have covered for this type of behavior, and don’t support those who do cover for it.

      So, while IFB churches have covered this stuff up for years, many others have put safeguards in place to avoid the preacher-king complex.

  24. Umm, “we don’t know what sexuality is”?
    Uh, yes, we do.

    What is sad is the weirdness is coming straight from his mouth in its entirety, it isn’t just sound clips taken out of context.

    If you are upset because hundreds of students have left over their pastors being upset about comments you have made from the pulpit, don’t you think it would be wise to take a step back, evaluate what it is you are saying that isn’t making sense to others and try to figure out if you are the one who is actually in the wrong????????

    1. I said the same sort of thing to a former friend once. When I called him out on some questionable statements/actions, he complained that he “thought I was different – that everyone else had said for years that he was wrong, but he thought I was different.” I was like…well, if everyone says you’re wrong, what does that logically tell you?

      And yes, he was raised in the same fundy circles I was.

      1. If you’re a true fundy (of any sort, not just the Baptist kind), everyone else thinking you’re wrong just proves you’re a prophet being persecuted for the sake of the Truth. 😐

    2. Your last paragraph is dead on.

      I remember my old pastor telling a story multiple times about a woman who was a first time visitor to Sunday School (church was running about 30-40 at the time). He “preached” hard on whatever his pet peeve was for the day and after the class she immediately left the building shaking her head. Rather than being concerned about what he said that could have caused that reaction, he looked upon it as a badge of honor that his preaching is so good it scares the heathens away. I always wondered if that was the last time that woman would ever have the chance to hear the gospel. He was a Hyles disciple. Arrogant a**es.

      1. Your picture is perverted. Ive seen that movie before i was saved. You probabyl just like to hear soft tickle your ears preaching? Your just showing your bitterness. Ephesions 4:31

  25. I am really out of the loop:

    What are the specifics of this?
    Also, Jeff Owens resigned? is that true? Anyone know why?

    1. Shaft, from what I’ve pieced together on the internet (w/o being able to log onto Facebook at work to see what was put up there), it appears that Jack has been accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl he had been “counseling”. This came to light when he left his phone on the pulpit and the girl sent him a text message. One of his deacons picked up his phone and opened the text to see a naked or suggestive picture of the girl. More pictures were then found on Schaap’s phone. Jack was fired (I believe) this last Sunday. Jeff Owens also resigned his church. This appears to simply be a coincidence at this time as it appears that Owens resigning is due to actual health/family issues.

      That’s what I’ve put together. Anyone willing to confirm or correct me?

      1. I heard Schaap was fired last night and Owens did not just resign, but is completely out of ministry altogether. . .

        2. Shaft, from what I’ve pieced together, no. Owens will not become the new savior at FBC. Time will tell though.

      2. It’s the “coincidental” timing that bothers me the most. IFB emperors do not “just” resign and give up that much power. Something is fishy here, especially with Bob Gray coming out with a preemptive Crisis Control blog post.
        I don’t believe in coincidences. Not in the IFB world of position and power.

        1. I agree Don which is why I used the word, “appears”. So far though there isn’t as much fire under the Owens story that I can find, but I’m not as well connected as many others.

    2. Would someone be so kind as to give me a Cast of Characters please? I’m only too well aware of who Jack Schaap is, thanks to this blog, but who is Owens and Bob Gray? Is there anyone else who might be involved in this hellish fiasco that we should be aware of?

      1. Jeff Owens was a pastor in West Virginia who apparently just resigned. He was vile in his sermons, blasting women for their dress. He also preached a sermon about having a “hunt a homo day” and preached about how we should all go kill homosexuals. He later apologized for some of what he said, but he is still vile.
        Bob Gray is a big-name pastor in Texas. He is one of the respected leaders of the movement. This is a different Bob Gray than the one that molested girls in Florida.

  26. I wish the replies had a “vomit” smiley option. It would be quite appropriate for that clip.

    And why is he so desperate to talk to kids about sex? Isn’t that how a lot of child molesters groom their victims?

  27. I knew something was going on, but so far even the rumors have been very unsuccessful and I couldn’t get any answers. This is the first time I’ve been able to get any specific details, and I really hope it’s not true.

      1. It sounded pretty typical to me. I’m trying to view it from all of your perspectives though. In light of the recent events, it’s an odd topic to choose as his last message.

  28. Msybe I’m connecting dots that aren’t there, but could it be that Jeff Owens’ resignation is a result of him getting The Call to FBC? Could we see Owens headed to Indiana in the near future?

    1. If that’s the case I would say that FBC is going from the frying pan into the fire.

      1. He was under a lot of pressure, and he wanted to put his family first. I did hear that he asked for a six month leave, and his church wouldn’t give it to him, but I don’t know if that’s true.

        1. It could easily be as simple as that, but that’s also the explanation that everyone who resigns in disgrace gives: “… been under a lot of stress … want to spend more time with family …”

        2. Not merely under pressure; my understanding is that he discovered a serious problem in his family, and resigned the church rather than continue and destroy his family. I hope that such is the case, and I respect him for it (assuming that it is so).

          I’m not a fan of his (I’ve never heard him preach a Biblical message), but I’m willing to extend privacy rights to his family.

      2. I know. Whatever the case, it’s totally unrelated to Bro. Schaap’s resignation. I never imagined something like this could happen. I found this site while I was looking for information.

  31. Another one bites the dust. When it comes to the preacher usually a pocket full of money, means a life full of secrets. I have seen really good men get to the point where they are able to fill their pockets from the church, that is the exact point when things start the downward spiral. I wonder does jack or cindy schaap drive a European luxury car? That seems to constant….LOL

  32. Here’s what will happen: pretty much nothing.

    The powers that be will lie or do whatever they have to do to cover up the truth.

    Will it cause anyone to say, “Wait a minute…maybe the legalistic crap we’ve been building our philosophies, our lives and our churches around is really a bunch of nonsense? Maybe it even engenders things like sexual immorality and causes them to flourish unchecked? Maybe we should seek a more balanced, grace-filled view of Scripture? Maybe our long list of do’s and don’ts accomplishes nothing and is actually worthless?”

    Naaah.

    If Schaap is really out, they’ll find someone who is just as legalistic and life will go on as usual.

    1. “For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.

      …insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, and puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

      …why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.”

      It’s as if these verses didn’t exist in the KJV, for all that fundies pay attention to them. But I can’t think of anything better to say on this significant occasion.

    2. I also will make a prediction that as long as criminal charges are not filed he will be back preaching somewhere, whether in a church or as a special speaker, evangelist, whatever, within 18 months. Probably closer to 6 months than 18, but it will happen.

      2. If she’s 17, and it’s an Indiana thing, there might not be. Age of consent there is 16. If the bit about her sending him a sext turns out to be the case, then there likely won’t be any criminal charges. Since he’s not a licensed counselor, he won’t even lose his ability to counsel. He may, however, lose his pastorship, and hopefully this will get enough attention to permanently shame him in all but the most backwardly insular of circles.

        1. The age of consent in Illinois is 18 and there was sexual activity between the two in the state of IL. So if IN doesn’t prosecute, IL will.
          “In addition, the girl was offended in Illinois AND Indiana. The age of consent in Indiana is 16 years old and the age of consent in Illinois is 18 years old. Jack Schaap can be in prison for up to 30 years.
          ” This is from: https://www.facebook.com/groups/210248275769396/

        2. If she did text suggestive or nude pictures could he be charged with child porn?

        3. Ok. I wasn’t sure if anything had extended outside of Indiana. I just knew that activity in Indiana was likely not illegal, though completely unethical.

          WifeofBill, the problem with the child porn thing is that she could also be charged. A lot of states don’t distinguish between minors sending pictures of themselves and adults sending/taking pictures of minors. I’m not sure how that would work–if they could cut a deal with the girl to avoid prosecuting her or what.

        4. Actually, age of consent in Illinois is 17 and Indiana is 16. A quick Google check confirmed this. However, the rules can get skewed when you start looking at the initial relationship between the two — and I mean professional relationship, not sexual.

          For instance, 17 is the legal age of consent in the state of Illinois. However, if a school teacher or administrator has sexual contact with anyone under the age of 18 than the age of consent is 18. It varies based upon the profession of the perpetrator.
          So, that may have an effect on what they can or cannot charge Jack with in both Illinois and Indiana. If the girl’s initial contact with him was as a counselor than the rules may change regardless of the age of consent.

        5. If she’s under 18 and sent naked pictures of herself, he’d likely get in trouble for that.

        7. Age of consent is tricky. That might only mean that it’s legal for a 16 year old to have sex with another minor or within a 2 year age difference. Some states make it illegal for minors to have sex even with other minors.

  33. So Jack likes pictures, eh? Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Bet she’s a real sport, eh? Click,click. Photos, say no more, say no more.

    Couldn’t help it–the photo remark just made me lapse into Monty Python.

    1. The statue of Jack Schaap, now under construction near the Hyles Temple on the HAC campus.

        1. The statue of Hyles and his wife is already there on the HAC campus, and is worshipped regularly by HAC’s current incumbents (I tried to post a link to a video of the adoration of Hyles’ statue, but HAC seems to have pulled it from the Interwebs). I also have it on good authority that there are other images of Hyles all over the HAC campus.

          The Schaap statue doesn’t exist yet, except in my mind, as far as I know. It just seemed like the next logical step. And don’t think a little scandal will stop him from being cannonized at HAC. HAC already has shrines to Hyles and Lester Roloff, both of whom were involved in some dubious doings.

  35. What if he really just has a major medical issue? What then? Is everyone upset that he didn’t sin like you had hoped? That is how these comments read.

    I’m not condemning you, just it seems like some glory in the fall… If he did fall.

    Just be mindful.

    1. But then why are ao many links disabled and sites being purged if it is merely a medical condition?

      And I would be careful about spinning it as a “fall” and making it sound as if it was an accidental thing.

      The truth is that the IFB attracts men of lesser character to the pulpit specifically because of the power structure found there.

    2. I speak for myself when I say that *IF* these allegations are false then I would be thrilled to know victims were not exploited or taken advantage of in the cruelest and most life-damaging way. It would be a huge sigh of relief to think there ISN’T a poor, innocent girl who went to receive counsel and was preyed upon. However, based on history of this church, the fundy system that ensure pastors full reign and access, as well as the benefits of a cover-up, Schaap’s eerie and obvious obsession with sex and his disturbing sexual comments…it is unlikely this is a rumor or a false allegation. My prayers first and foremost are for his victims. Those he has abused sexually, physically, emotionally and spiritually because they all deserve to know the truth.

    3. Whenever a preacher fails (note i said “fails” not “falls”) it is a bad testimony for Christians everywhere. There should be a measure of sadness, not glorying. If he failed, I hope he repents so that the church community can forgive him.

      1. There should be a measure of sadness (and I think there is in most of us) for every day that Schaap was there preaching his false gospel, lording it over his little fiefdom, and abusing his flock emotionally, theologically, and in countless other ways. (Whether or not he committed physical sexual misconduct, I don’t know yet, but he certainly dished out plenty of spiritual sexual abuse.) A measure of rejoicing that his misrule at FBC/HAC seems to have ended is understandable, even if it may not be laudable.

        1. I see your point. Maybe I read them wrong but many of the comments seem to be saying, “See! He is a pervert! Ha! We Win!.” When they should be saying “Praise the Lord he won’t be pastoring there any longer, hopefully someone better will come in.” Now I’m not saying everyone said that.

    4. Happy, I know what you’re saying. And yes, we should be careful not to rejoice in sufferings or hardships of anyone – no matter how sinful or messed up their actions are. After all, we’re all sinners and none of us are better than anyone else.

      That being said, it’s hard not to be pleased that an individual who has exercised an inordinate amount of power over others, who has arrogantly condemned others, who has influenced so many to follow a false Christianity is finally removed from a position of influence. I think for most of us here, that’s the “joy” you may get a sense of. That a false teacher – one closely associated with the pains of our past – is no more.

    5. I would be happy if the accusations were not true. But I still wouldn’t like the man.

    6. Glory? You really think I’m finding glory in the fact that a self-proclaimed man of God is involved with sexual immorality and child molestation? If there is any comfort at all to be taken from this news, it is that others may be protected from his sin. I do not take glory in the fact that a so-called Christian has sinned. I am appalled and upset.

      It’s true, I have a small measure of thankfulness that he at least has been exposed. But it would’ve been far better had he never done anything wrong in the first place.

      I don’t hate Jack Schaap. I pity him, and even as I pray for help for those hurt by him, I must pray for him as well, that he repents of what he’s done and becomes a better man.

    7. Look, whether or not you believe that this man committed crimes, there is the plain fact that he stood up before a religious congregation and preached this. It is creepy, nasty, horrible stuff that implies creepy, nasty, horrible things about the children of the congregation and furthermore implies that he believes those creepy, nasty, horrible things.

      Furthermore, people who have heard him preach before are not surprised. I try not to cuss, but what the hell? If our priest stood up in church and preached this, people would be silent and stunned with horror. They would grope for explanations: a brain tumor? a weird reaction to medication? a psychotic break? And if he turned out to have deliberately chosen this topic in his right mind, he would be out of our church on his ear; once the bishop got wind of it he would probably be defrocked. Because you do not say creepy nasty sexual things about underage members of your flock!

      Fundamentalist preachers are perverts.

      1. And there is the problem. Within the IFB, there is no higher authority than the pastor. That is where all the problems stem from. It’s really sad, because that the IFB structure of leadership is completely un-Biblical.

    8. Aside from the impact on the victim(s), I can see a lot of positive from his situation. For one, it will remove him from the ability to continue spreading the cult-like Hyles brand of IFB fundamentalism and just maybe, a few more who have been sucked into the following will see the error. Also, I think it provides more credibility to the anti-fundy positions and philosophies expressed on this blog. Somehow, it just feels like justice…for both the young girl(s) and those who have been scarred by modern day fundyism. I suspect there will be a huge group from FBC and other circles who will throw him under the (church) bus and say “we never liked that guy anyway.”

    9. What you seem to have missed is that his own church outright FIRED him. He was the cult leader of that church, the members and lesser-leaders there hung on every word he said as if it came from the mouth of God (this was the same church that continued to worship Jack Hyles his entire life, and still do, despite his being an unrepentant long-time adulterer). For them to actually fire him, the proof had to be very damning indeed, and something even they couldn’t cover up.

      1. There’s also a police investigation going on.
        The police do not investigate consensual sex between adults. They must suspect some bigger crime (or series of crimes) than we’ve heard of so far.

  36. Is this really true? Or is someone just yanking our collective chain?

    If true, given his filthy stance on the Lord’s Supper, and the remarks above, it wouldn’t surprise me… “out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks” (or ‘speaketh’ if you want 1828 language)

    2. What’s the “filthy stance” on the Lord’s Supper? I haven’t heard about that one.

        1. Ok, I just watched the video in that post. He was putting his sexual hangups out there long ago. Why was this man allowed to be pastor at all?

        2. Because he was Jack Hyles’ favorite son-in-law. In a monarchy, succession is usually hereditary.

    1. It’s just too easy, isn’t it? It amazes me that after all the sex scandals, people still allow themselves to be fooled.

      Reminds me of the youth pastor of the church that ran my fundy high school. He had lunch with select girls who “needed counseling” every week. My friends and I always knew something wasn’t right, but it was allowed to continue. It was no surprise right after we graduated from high school when he ran away with one of my classmates. If students can figure it out, why doesn’t everyone else? 👿

        1. Their ability to think and see the obvious has been dulled by years and years of listening to fundy sermons. Independent thinking, analyzing, asking questions-well, that would be wrong. You’re supposed to trust and obey.

  38. As a survivor of sexual abuse in fundamentalism, I hope to god that all victims are given the help that they need and the dignity they deserve.

    He is a disgusting man.

    1. Indeed, yes. I sincerely hope that none of them are kept from actual therapy due to fundy distrust of psychiatry. Anyone abused by this man does not need to be shunted into some kind of church/pastoral/”Biblical” counsel–they need good, certified therapy.

  39. please tell me this is just hype? Let’s all go out and be kind to someone for Jesus’ sake

  40. So sad….but not at all surprising

    “King of the creepy” from the start, his so called excuses for sermons were riddled with ridicuoulousness mixed with filthiness

    😥

    …..and his stain effects all Christianity, not just the IFB brand……..

  41. @KJVVictory.
    SO…Jesus was in sin because He had a beard?
    Riddle me this batman. 😛

    1. No. Have you ever seen a picture of JESUS? Nobody has. The Catholics draw him with abeard but its not right. Im not falling for you’re liberal games.

        1. Are you a catholic? Stop praying to Mary and worshiping idols!! There is only one true GOD in the king James Bible.

      3. Ummm…I know it’s prophecy, but I’m pretty sure Isaiah mentions plucking his beard out during his trial/post-trial persecutions.

  42. KJVictory,
    Jesus had a beard…get over it…

    Isaiah 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

    1. The hair they plucked was JESUS day old growth. He got captured in the night so he didn;t have tijme to shave in the morning. Do you even read your Bible?

      1. Plucked out one day old stubble? With what? Egyptian tweezers?
        You do realized proof of ignorance isn’t a requirement even for citizenship in Fundystan, don’t you?

        1. Of course they werne’t egyptian tweezers. Nothing good ever came out of Eygpt. Incluiding the corrupted text that makes up all the bible perversions you people read.

  43. KJVictory.
    @.@….
    He was still in sin according to your logic. He had facial hair. How dare you accuse Christ of being in sin. Back to the real subject at hand. I read a good passage that really hits this on the head.
    Luke 20:45-47 The Message (I know you think this is blasphemy but it is still the Words of God.)
    “Watch out for the religion scholars. They love to walk around in academic gowns, preen in the radiance of public flattery, bask in prominent positions, sit at the head table at every church function. And all the time they are exploiting the weak and helpless. The longer their prayers, the worse they get. But they’ll pay for it in the end.”

    2. Guess that pretty well settles it. Anyone else planning on being a “defender?”

      1. Do you believe everything the liberal trash media writes? How gullible are you people?

        3. KJVictory, I don’t know whether you’re a poe or a real fundy. If you are the latter, I want you to know that scum like you and Schaap are the reason I still believe hell could be real. You are despicable monsters. If not hell, karma will come back to you. I don’t care if you call me a brainwashed liberal. I follow Jesus more closely than any fundamentalist snakes. Yes, Jesus would call you that. Watch yourself.

        5. I’m glad you’re just a poe. To anyone who would actually have such a stance, I stand by what I said.

        6. Melody – OK it’s me Scorpio aka KJVictory. The sad thing is there will be people who will defend him with th stuff I made up today.

        7. Don, I’m glad you fixed that typo. Because I’ll be honest, I was reading the typo in an entirely different way…

      2. I would dare say we have seen nothing as yet in the defender department. They are lining up now and preparing to barrage the world with the St. Jack is innocent message–no doubt framed by jealous Fundies, Catholics, and liberals.

      3. Love it! ” Anyone else planning to defend” My parents and other relatives are BIG the fundy movement. I am NOT. I think it is cult like. I actually am in radio as a DJ in top 40 so I’m definitely on the prayer list of all their friends. I have seen many of these “men of God” preach like Schaap did on sex and have seen this happen all too many times. They like to practice what they preach if you will only not the biblical part but the sin. I’m not surprised. I have met and still do see lots of these men and churches due to my parents and I am always being asked to golf or go eat so they can “preach ” to me to bring me back in. Not gonna happen. May Schaap rot in prison. I see this stuff all to often.

  46. This is truly a sad thing.

    My heart goes out to the victim and her family, to the Schaap family, and to all my friends at FBC who will be devastated by this.

    I hope that everyone involved will run to the cross of Christ.

    4. Amen, PS. Wise words and a proper focus for those of us who may only know of these things from the news. I’m sure there are real Christians, even at HBC, whose faith will be tried because of this.

      We shouldn’t take glory in a man’s fall or his false teaching when he was supposed to be a Shepherd. Sin has real consequences.

      Jesus understands betrayal and pain having endured it here on earth. He hears our prayers in the midst of our troubles and Has promised never to leave nor forsake us.

    2. I am not KJVictory. At first I thought that he was a good brother but I may have to separate from him over a grievous error that he is subtly pushing: He has KJV in his screen name instead of KJB. Is KJVictory trying to insinuate that the King James is just a version and not The Bible? I cannot allow my reputation to be ruined by this compromiser.

    1. That first sentence is thing of beauty. I wish I could come up with descriptions like “all-around flying monkey.”

  49. Now, if someone had said “Hey KJVictory is not real…he is a Poe. I think it is Scorpio.” They would have chosen wisely. :mrgreen:

    My apologies if I offended anyone.

    And now that it is offical that the police are involved let’s hope justice is served and the healing can begin.

    1. Scorpio–Well played. But, you take silver. Pastor Fred is still the gold medal Poe. Possibly not for long, though.

      1. I agree. Pastor Fred is the standard any of us can hope to attain. Actually I was honored when Pastor Fred started to interact with my character.

        1. I tried to post this here before but Brother George moved it. Sorry for the double post. I am not KJVictory. At first I thought that he was a good brother but I may have to separate from him over a grievous error that he is subtly pushing: He has KJV in his screen name instead of KJB. Is KJVictory trying to insinuate that the King James is just a version and not The Bible? I cannot allow my reputation to be ruined by this compromiser.

  50. He was FIRED. Full disclosure by the staff is what was ordered. No cover up. Under criminal investigation as well.

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