A couple of things struck me about this video. One was that the “special music” style they’re using here is the same one that HAC used to bash PCC for about a decade ago.
The second was the thought that we’ll no doubt see some of the faces of these graduates again in a few years when they pose for their first mugshots. Lord, have mercy.
It’s a scary prediction, but you’re probably right.
I’ll never get over the fact that fundamentalist institutions “bash” each other. Hilarious, yet sad.
“The second was the thought that we’ll no doubt see some of the faces of these graduates again in a few years when they pose for their first mugshots.”
The cycle of abuse will continue because there is no doubt many of these graduates were abused themselves in a Hyles type church. What are the stats? 1 in 4 women in America are sexually abused and 1 in 6 boys?
Abused and then denied the appropriate treatment that would break the cycle.
Because, you know, secular counselling is ungodly.
” …studies show that about 80% of survivors never abuse their children or any other child.” http://www.centrefortherapy.ca/Mythsofabuse
The “cycle of abuse” stereotype perpetuates further stigma and even abuse on survivors of abuse.
Abusers are abusers because they *choose to abuse. Period.
Yup. Been documenting the cases of adults who were sexually abused as children for 11 years now. Not one of them has ever sexually abused a child, as far as their personal histories testify. Yes a lot of them have problems and difficulties, but they have not repeated the sex abuse. Furthermore, in all the pastors who sexually abuse children that I’ve documented, there is no extant evidence that any of them were sexually molested as children. There is evidence in some of the cases (like Chuck Shifflett) that the sexual abuse of children did not even begin until after the abuser was in his own pastorate.
So the idea that the victims of childhood sexual abuse are doomed to be child molesters is bullsh*t, plain and simple. One more falsehood that adds to the cross that real victims have to bear. And the idea that all or most perpetrators were sexually abused as children is also bullsh*t. Abusers abuse from a sense of entitlement, a lack of empathy, and a lack of conscience. Becoming a Fundamentalist preacher is a great way to acquire all those tools. It is also an easy profession to get into for men who have already acquired those tools.
I think you two are reading WAY too much into my post.
I never said they would sexually abuse their own children.
Did someone piss in your Cheerios this morning? You two need to calm the HELL down.
That’s really interesting. In the one personal case I am familiar of, psychiatrists were asking him if he was abused as a child. Why are doctors perpetuating such a stereotype?
The point they were making was that people who abuse others (whether child abuse, or in the case of Hyles-Anderson, spiritual abuse) do so because they choose to. They can’t fall back on the excuse that they are not accountable if they themselves were ever abused.
Sorry, but that’s really anecdotal unless you can provide us with some statistics and analysis. As others have stated, leave aside that the Bible commands us to do right despite our feelings and inclinations, the fact that so many who are abused don’t become abusers themselves proves that abuse is no excuse to become an abuser.
But the studies and statistics back up the assertion that there is a cycle of violence. Just some quotes to back that up:
“Children who are abused or neglected are more likely to become criminal offenders as adults. A National Institute of Justice study found “that childhood abuse increased the odds of future delinquency and adult criminality overall by 40 percent” (Widom, 1992). Child sexual abuse victims are also at risk of becoming ensnared in this cycle of violence. One expert estimates that forty percent of sexual abusers were sexually abused as children (Vanderbilt, 1992). In addition, victims of child sexual abuse are 27.7 times more likely to be arrested for prostitution as adults than non-victims. (Widom, 1995). Some victims become sexual abusers or prostitutes because they have a difficult time relating to others except on sexual terms.”
–National Center for Victims of Crime at ncvc.org
Also British Journal of Psychology, summary of a study:
“Results: Among 747 males the risk of being a perpetrator was positively correlated with reported sexual abuse victim experiences. The overall rate of having been a victim was 35% for perpetrators and 11% for non-perpetrators. Of the 96 females, 43% had been victims but only one was a perpetrator. A high percentage of male subjects abused in childhood by a female relative became perpetrators. Having been a victim was a strong predictor of becoming a perpetrator, as was an index of parental loss in childhood.”
You can review the full study here: http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/179/6/482.full
That statistic is still pretty high. 80% don’t abuse their children? That means 20% do right. That’s 1 in 5. Is that consistent with the rest of society? Are one in 5 people abusers? If not, then that means their is a correlation, and it’s worth considering.
But is “because someone did it to me” really an excuse for doing it to someone else? I’m certainly not minimizing the abuse that anyone has suffered, or the pain and suffering that they experience as a result. But how much of that 20% used their past abuse as an excuse for what they did to someone else?
(These are just my thoughts. I realize this is an issue with no easy answers.)
@Mandy. No of course not. I’m merely debating w/ Persnickity and Bessenco that saying that there is an unfair ‘cycle of abuse’ stereotype. Clearly the stats show a higher liklihood that someone who was abused as a child will become an abuser themselves. I think the fact that 80% do not become abusers is evidence to the fact that the past is NOT an excuse to continue the cycle. So, on that point, you are correct.
My 2 cents regarding the cycle of abuse: I was physically, emotionally, & spiritually abused as a child. As a new parent, I physically, emotionally, & spiritually abused my children simply by virtue of the fact that the specific behaviors were so normalized and I did not realize they were abusive.
Once I educated myself (by the grace of God), I stopped those behaviors. It is HARD for me not to smack my kids, or shout at and belittle them when I’m angry, since those behaviors were modeled for me as “love.” I do remember thinking that my parents had a funny way of showing love when I was on the receiving end of abuse. Those feelings of being victimized are the single most useful reminder of why I shouldn’t treat my kids in the way that comes “naturally” to me.
So, if the abuse is normalized and the victim has been brainwashed that the abuse is loving, yes, it is likely to be perpetuated. Perpetual abuse is not mandatory, however, and it is hurtful when people assume that victims always become abusers.
Argh! The poster Krei is actually supposed to be Kreine. My toddler started smacking the keyboard before I clicked submit. 🙄
The special music comment made me smile because it’s so true. It’s kind of amusing to see what a little bit of time will do to some opinions, though no doubt it’s a human nature thing.
Even during a ceremony that is supposed to celebrate an achievement (the value of the achievement is another comment for another day) Schaap just can’t stop from yelling about something.
I just don’t get how that routine doesn’t get old real quick for some people. I know I tired of it in like a month at PCC, and it sure seems to be way worse @ HAC.
It sounds a lot like Liberty style music from the 70’s.
Sounds like they’re on the slippery slope…just 40 years behind
I noticed that whoever put this together did a real good job focussing on the more attractive young ladies. I thought they were above being worldly in that way.
HAC? Are you kidding? They were always the worst, at least when I was looking at Fundy U’s in the early 90s. At least in the others’ promo material you saw the occasional “pleasantly plump” or talented homely girl. Not at Hyles Anderson.
If you were a girl at HAC and didn’t spend 2 hours every day in the mirror caking on the makeup and curling you hair, you were nothing. If you didn’t wear your skirts short and flippy to the point of having to worry every day in dress check, you wouldn’t get dated or called on to do anything related to representing the college. If you didn’t want to be bothered to spend the time, effort, or money, or were too fat, or liked your skirts long, you were just filler to provide money to keep the college going. That attitude always irritated me – that and the smiley cheerleader thing – seriously, no one is that perky all the time.
PCC is like that as well. Only the most attractive people can be in any of their many promotional pictures (and when I say MANY…), most of their “candid” year book shots, etc. The same goes with dating.
After I started to get out of the fundy mindset (around sophomore year) it stopped bothering me. I had already made peace the fact that I was plain by the world’s standard of “pretty” (not that PCC would ever admit that they hold that any of the world’s standards 😆 ), and I had no desire to give a big fake smile for the camera anyway. I also had not desire to date a drone. Some things are a blessing in disguise. 😎
Yeah, they must have been hiding all the less-pretty girls somewhere, which, when you think about it, is rather sinister.
Hey! I wasn’t hidden away when I went to HAC. Of course, I never was part of the ‘in’ crowd, either.
Why is it that the first thought I had when I heard, “as we follow our Commander”, was how many of them think their Commander is Schaap?
That’s exactly what I thought. 😡
I thought the EXACT same thing. Sad.
ditto here. They do something for Christ by following their commander, the local MOG
When we stand before God are we really going to boast about our anemic works? I doubt it.
We will be overwhelmed by the sheer holiness and blinding power of God. We will tremble, we will fall prostrate, and we will cry out ‘holy, holy, holy.’
There is no place for ‘self’ on that day. Our best deeds will look like filthy rags compared to His. The only thing that will matter is whether we have union with Christ so that his righteousness is ours. He will say ‘well done’ to those who have relied on Christ’s work, not their own.
I wish I would’ve understood this when I was a fundamentalist. 🙁
They have to know this deep down right? I really believe that this is where most of the ranting comes from (their own guilty conscience). Who can possibly try to work so hard to be perfect without realizing that the harder we try, the worse our sin burns inside of us? I always say that if you find a pastor’s favorite sin to rant about, it’s the one plaguing his own heart the most. Beware of the man who seems to focus too much on one topic.
@PS: Wow, what a great comment!
It’s not about us, and how “great” we are, or what “great” things we have done. It is about Jesus Christ, and the great things He has done for us and the great things He will use us to do… and that doesn’t make us great – it makes Him great!!
Did my eyes see a new wordmark logo?
These kids don’t look happy at all. I wonder if the smiles we did see are the ones who are happy that they are getting the hell outta there.
This video is nothing but a bunch of emotional claptrap meant to draw you in.
I’m so glad I’m no longer living a life of performance based Christianity that says if I just do more for Christ, I’ll be accepted by Him.
The final straw for us was when we moved to VA and we tried yet another IFB church. The pastor, a BJU grad, came to visit when I had just found out that I needed surgery for my dislocated jaw and we had no insurance to cover the expensive surgery. I was scared, close to tears that day, in a lot of pain and trying to keep up with three small kids. He just looked at my husband and I and said….”well, when are you gonna get involved in church?”
When he left, I looked at my hubby and said…”what a cold-hearted jerk (I said some other choice words but don’t want to type them here 😛 )! That’s it. I’m done with the IFBC!”
It’s been 9 years and we are currently checking out a nondenominational church.
I definitely felt the same way about the lack of smiles! Especially that one girl in the trio – whew, she just looked plain unhappy! Maybe she was realizing what she worked for for four years wasn’t going to amount to much “in the world that’s lost and dying.”
This is what struck me, as well. They all just looked…tired. And drained. And sad. This place is Stepford Christian College (as are most of their collegues/competition). This is the worst thing about bible college, imo: they suck all the passion out of people, and then send them out into the world as ministers of the grace of God.
How can one love others in the relentless full-time way the ministry demands when the light behind your eyes has been snuffed out, and the candle itself has been removed on the grounds that it was inappropriate or immodest?
They had to get something for the 4 years of hard work and slavery. What better thing than a graduation pagent. Is HAC regionally accredited? Will other schools, businesses and governments recognize the diploma?
They sure did define their view of sinners, didn’t they? The bus kid, the public school sports teams, the homeless and foreigners.
I’m offended at the fact that this song talks about them reaching the world for Christ. That’s not what they’re doing.
Woe to you, Hyles and Andersonites, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.
And having said that, I don’t deny that their are probably individuals among those graduates–misguided and ignorant–but who do sincerely love Jesus Christ and desire to see Him glorified and those who are wretched find happiness in Him.
There’s just not nearly as many as the happy-smiley video suggests.
Bad George! You’re up early today. You know I meant “there,” not “their.” I didn’t realize you had such strong feelings about the Oxford comma, however.
The Bible does not call these categories of people sinners. It calls them the people God loves best– the poor, the widow, the orphan, the stranger, the blind, the halt, and the lame. They aren’t a “mission field,” they are our brothers and sisters, c0-heirs of the Kingdom.
Everybody but nice white suburban people like themselves are the mission field. Surely good rule keepin’, bus drivin’, church goin’ folk can’t be lost too right?
It’s just painful to see large groups of new kids spreading out across the country to abuse people, and spread HAC filth.
Really, “public high school teens” are their mission field? *sigh*
I like how they made sure to feature their one black student as she received her diploma. LOL
“Distinguish yourself as somebody who wants to stand at the judgement seat of Christ saying, ‘I did something for you, God!'”
All I can think of is Matthew 7:22.
Great reference!
It’s about what He has done, not what we do (thankfully). He remains faithful though we are not, for he cannot go against himself. He keeps his covenants, we break them – that is the history of the church. Yet he loves us anyway!
I thought of John 8:29. Done and done!
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
I thought of the same thing when I saw that part. It’s crazy to realize how completely out of focus their efforts are.
Thanks for pointing that out. Great observation
Does anyone know what was up with the girl in the white grad gown? Did she just miss the memo about black or was there a significance to it? Just wondering!
The girls in white are not graduating, they are just the wives of men that are graduating. Basically, the guys get to show off the trophy they got with the diploma (yes, I know, I’m bitter). Funny how you never see the husband of a wife graduating walking with her.
That’s weird! They didn’t graduate, but they wear a gown and march? Cah-rayzee town!
Probably because they’re getting their PHT degree “Putting Hubby Through” by working to pay his college bill and support them while he’s going to school. The PHT degree comes soon after the MRS degree. 😈
Wow. Our college did recognize the wives at the awards assembly, and for those who went to college later, it did make sense. Those women DID have to work hard supporting the family and generally living in a tiny apartment. HOWEVER – my DH was not publicly recognized for two years of literally supporting me so I could finish – and the girl who got married in between finishing student teaching and graduation WAS . . . always struck me as odd. And no, I don’t know if the alma mater still goes through that ritual at all.
My husband’s seminary had the wives stand and had ushers had us each a little gift (which I thought was thoughtful), but we didn’t wear gowns and we sat in the audience.
Yup! When I graduated from HAC, the husband was not allowed to walk with ME, of course. I guess my dad did pay for 3 years of my schooling, but the hubster DID work two jobs my last year (we married between my Junior and Senior years) so I could finish and not have to worry about working then. Oh well. Instead, he met me at the bottom of the platform when I had received my diploma, gave me a beautiful bouquet of flower and kissed me. Take that, HAC – with your rules that even husband and wives could make contact while on campus. (Yes, I know we were at the church auditorium then not the college campus, but it still seemed fitting. lol)
*couldn’t make contact *sigh*
Needs moar cornball.
That graduation song is cornier than Lawrence Welk singing “Jingle Bells” on Hee Haw while dancing with one of “Jerry’s Kids”.
If they had played that at my graduation from a state school,we would’ve had an aneurysm from laughing so hard.
“… cornier than Lawrence Welk singing “Jingle Bells” on Hee Haw while dancing with one of “Jerry’s Kids”.”
I think you have just coined a new meme, Nirrti, and I, for one, love it.
😆
Many ++++++++’s.
Considering all of the Lawrence Welk episodes I sat through with Granny, and Hee Haw episodes with Grandma & Grandpa, I was an original multi-cultural kid who perfectly understands. I will be co opting that phrase. Thanks!
Lawrence Welk is about where most IFBs are, musically speaking.
The standing in front of the judgement seat reminded me of all the guilt that used to get laid down on us.
It’s funny that I actually recognize a few faces from my time there. The one thing that I actually still enjoy doing related to HAC is listening to the corny music. It just makes me smile. Poor Dr. Young is looking quite old – he must have a lot of stress trying to run that college and keep that pastor happy.
“we’ll no doubt see some of the faces of these graduates again in a few years when they pose for their first mugshots”
or at the drive-thru.
Not to cause problems, but I always thought the music at PCC was a little less “screechy”…
Hmm, I clicked the info button on the video and it said there were no dislikes for it. I’m guessing the dislikes were just eliminated. Yeah, I’m a conspiracy theorist. Deal with it.
God’s ok with stringed instruments, as long as it’s a violin?
The violin is the direct descendent of the “stringed instruments” David and all those Israelites used to play while dancing, I mean standing perfectly still to praise the Lord. The viola, autoharp, harp and cello are relatives of that descendent.
The guitar, and particularly it’s electric variety, are descendents of the stringed instruments invented by Jubal from the wicked line of the murderer Cain. They are Satanic.
There is some disagreement about the lineage of the banjo, the traditional guitar and the dulcimer, depending on who you talk to. But I know the mind of the Lord, and separate from all the sinners who use the wicked banjo.
Blasphemy! Blasphemy I tell you!
Southern Gospel is the music we will be tapping our feet to in heaven. It will be played by God’s Own Band, a cross between Bill Gaither’s Homecoming group and the Hee Haw Gospel quartet!
That will include fiddles (not those sissy violins) an upright bass, guitars, a white piano, a banjo, a mandolin, a steel guitar and a Hammond B3 organ (that will double up for the Baseball games in Iowa)
Oh yeah, one more thing, Cowbell… also used for the Watchnight service preaching in heaven! (Cf: Cowbell Servioes)
You had me all the way till the white piano which doesn’t even exist let alone will be being played in heaven! 🙂
This has to be a joke doesn’t it? No one actually believes this sh*t do they?
Yes, yes, of course it’s a joke. I mean, someone somewhere might believe it, but I was making that crap up wildly.
As a proud East Tennesseean, I was actually listening to this in my playlist when I got on just now and laughed hysterically at Don’s replies:
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrPBzDcvyOw&w=560&h=315%5D
The bass seemed a little strong though didn’t it?
They can’t sing. I mean, aside from the stupidity of the song itself, the presentation of it was ear-rending. The girls were screeching all over the place, and the dynamics were–nonexistent. Blech!
Those poor kids.
Darrell – very astute comment about the music being that which they condemned earlier!
I agree that the singers did not look happy at all, but I did see pride in a lot of the graduate’s faces–which made me feel terrible for them, because they don’t realize yet that they have a worthless diploma.
Maybe it’s the silly song running through my head, but I had to read your comment twice. The first time I read “I see that the sinners did not look happy”.
Then I realized you wrote “singers”.
Freudian?
I agree that the pride was the saddest part. There was a real sense of accomplishment from a lot of them.
A lot of these kids are going to have nightmares from their unaccredited degrees, and from the school’s reputation in general.
I love that they made sure to put their “token” black girl graduate in at 1:06.
we had token black people at BJU too. The 5 or 6 black students on campus during any given semester were constantly followed by paparazzi from the BJU Review, promotional websites and pamphlets, etc., wanting to take their pictures.
Aside from the general uselessness of the unaccredited degree they are receiving, the sadest statement made in the video was by his holiness the most right reverend Jack Schaap.
“be someone who will stand at the judgement seat of Christ and say ‘I did something for you Lord.'”
Really? Is that what the Bible calls believers to? Is that what the Christian life is all about? My job as a Christian is to “do something for God” with my life? I would be outrageously angered by this if I wasn’t so heart broken.
I can’t begin to imagine yelling at God, much less telling Him the things I did for Him.
Is his god so small he has to be reminded of the feats and deeds done on his behalf? And the amazing part, to me, is that this arrogance is praised by people who should know better. How can anyone who claims to worship the Creator/Redeemer of the world talk in this manner?
It’s so ironic that fundamentalists like to accuse believers who don’t share their same standards of not respecting God or His holiness (i.e., their claims that only hymns are “God-honoring” music), but I think many of them are the ones who have made God in their own image, who dishonor Him by diminishing His power and the working of His Spirit, and who exalt themselves and their own so-called righteousness instead of exalting Christ alone.
Right on.
It makes me sad to think that there is another graduating class of folks who will perpetuate the errors of the IFB/Hyles’ cult on the world they now face. They will foist their cult practices on those who come within their circle of influence and it will all be done in the name of Jesus. (I can’t help but think that this too, is why Jesus spoke saying, “Father forgive them, they don’t know what they are doing.”)
Some will do it out of ignorance and sincere zeal… others already know how the game is played and are lining up their run at superstardom.
May God have mercy on these graduates and those they come in contact with. May they be used by the Lord in spite of their Hyles’s cult indoctrination. 😥
I’ll say one thing… HAC is a bullshit college with a bullshit agenda but they did put a few fine honeys through! Wouldn’t mind deflowering some of them… Ah, who are we kidding? I’m sure that’s already happened! 😈 But seriously, really? Who is more retarded, the more “mature” people who push this crap on to the younger ones, or the younger ones who can’t find the cajones to break the chains? Sheesh, I gotta stop coming to this site… The people who seem to wallow in the brainwashing depress me.
Your use of the word Retarted is rather offensive. Not to mention all the deflowering the fine honeys stuff….cmon.
Mel, why don’t you get a fucking grasp on words and a sense of humor? Retarded is a perfectly valid word to use considering these people are emotionally and intellectually retarded. Look up the word and you’ll see that it’s not really meant as an insult. But I guess you’re probably too pc to do that. As far as making a comment about having sex goes, I’m a guy. Are you? What do you expect? Grow the fuck up. I’m actually glad you’re offended, if you really are. Some people are just too easy. Btw, only a retard would capitalize the word! 😆
Not to mention misspell it.
Alright that’s enough Jay! Though a lot of us have come out of Fundyville I think a lot of us still maintain a sense of decency where cussing is concerned. I don’t mind a few cuss words now and then but the F word offends me. There are plenty of other ways to express yourself without foul language. As for growing up it sounds like it’s time you did so. 👿
Now that’s the response of a gracious and tolerant person. 🙄
It’s an outdated word that plenty of people take offense to…for me it’s belittling to those who actually have a differences–intellectually or otherwise.
Of course I’m sensitive because I do have a son with differences.
The tone of your first comment felt “off” to me which is why I replied to it. Sorry to upset you…hmmmm idk…all I can say to you is just because you can say things like fuck doesn’t mean you should. And…yea I remember when we had my first beer too…
Jay def should start working on eliminating the r word from his vocabulary. Very insulting to people with mental health issues.
When *I* had my first beer… 😎
Man… People sure are sensitive these days.
Btw Macushlalondra, you’re only offended because you were taught to be offended. You should grow out of that. You’ll find life much less stressful.
For someone who doesn’t know me at all you sure like to make assumptions. I asked you not to use the F word. I don’t think that’s asking too much unless your mind is too small to think of another word to use in it’s place. One that isn’t as offensive. Do you think you can handle that? 😈
Alright that’s enough Jay! Though a lot of us have come out of Fundyville I think a lot of us still maintain a sense of decency where cussing is concerned. I don’t mind a few cuss words now and then but the F word offends me. There are plenty of other ways to express yourself without foul language. As for growing up it sounds like it’s time you did so.
So, I guess you are claiming that you know me? You didn’t ask me not to use the word “fuck” you told me I should grow up. I assure you that I have an extensive vocabulary… Maybe I just enjoy getting a rise out of uptight people who can’t get past being offended by such small things. Seriously, you are offended by a string of 4 letters? Sounds like you’ve had a pretty easy life.
Well I guess I’m dealing with a juvenile idiot so there’s no more to be said. I have better things to do than to waste my time arguing with a turkey buzzard. 👿
Sigh… I’ll go ahead and apologize for any offense I’ve caused. Don’t really care for a flame war with any (somewhat)like minded people.
Thanks for the apology Jay. Believe me understand the desire to get a rise out of uptight fundy-ish people. I think comments on this site is the wrong place to do that though yknow…and eventually I think you move past that….(sort of) lol.
Speaking of misspellings, Jay, I’m pretty sure you mean “cojones.” “Cajones” is a word, but it means “desk drawers” or “large boxes.”
I really do pray that many, if not all, of the graduates will go out and actually win people to Christ. Not to a set of traditions, not to a “camp”, a cult, or a “brand” of Christianity (used here as the commercial term).
They might have gone to school in a cult-like environment, they may even have been raised in one. But I can always hold out hope that at least some of them will be able to wake up.
Umm…not likely…their track record of bad decision making is already evident…
Some of them have changed. Not all of them ‘stick by the stuff’.
Does anyone else HATE the term “bus Kid”?
Yes, it’s typical HAC marginalization of human beings, particularly ones in need.
The way Fundies with “bus ministries” say “bus kids,” it’s extremely demeaning to the young people in question.
sounds a lot like BJU when I was there, not so very long ago. I was one of the “filler” girls–I didn’t dress tacky or anything, and I wore light makeup, but I just didn’t have the BJU girl “look.” I was much taller than other girls; I wear a 12, not a 2; I don’t wear layers of skimpy little things from the junior department piled on top of one another to compose a halfway checkable outfit. If you ever go to BJU, observe the girls as they move in groups. They all look so much alike that they’re hard to distinguish from one another. Nothing stands out about them. I stood out.
I did manage to find friends anyway; they just weren’t the in-crowd, popular, cheerleader type. And I found a husband who wasn’t interested in that type.
that comment above belonged underneath formerHACgirl’s comment much earlier. I’m not sure what’s up with my computer this morning 👿
“I did something for you, God” ???
Yea, God. I don’t need that whole grace thing. I’ll make it on my own.
Sad. Sad. Sad 🙁
“Distinguish yourself as somebody who wants to stand at the judgement seat of Christ saying, ‘I did something for you, God!’”
And He will turn to them and say:
“Depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you!”
Does he have no fear of the Lord?
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Many: that is a sobering thought. Not some or a few but many will say “God, I did something for you!”
I shudder to think about it. For several months, leading up to the time the Lord dealt with me and saved me, I could not get away from this passage, and I kept giving excuses… until I finally realized that this passage was speaking about me and all my self-righteousness, all my works, all the points that I had accumulated by what I had done for God. It shook me to my soul, that I was the one who would be standing there trying to justify myself before the Righteous, True, Judge of all creation.
I have to wonder just how small the god of Schaap is if Jack can instruct the next generation of Fundies that they should stand before god tell “him” how much they have done for him.
When the all the graduates stood up at 1:12 I half expected them to start singing “We are the world…”
I mistook the choir for the graduates. I think it’s time for bed for me.
The whole song reminded me of “We are the World”…just terrible
I am a graduate of HAC. All this talk about brainwashing is rubbish. Believing is a choice and no one can make you choose to believe anything you don’t want to. Dr. Hyles never said to worship him or that we were to believe what he said because he said it. I distinctly remember a sermon in which he said “DON’T believe it just because I say it, go search the Bible for yourselves and find the truth.” That was a pivotal point in my education at HAC because I realized that I had been blindly following my pastor at my home church and accepting that I should do what he said just because he said it and he was a “man of God”. Well, “men of God” are still just men. They are not to be worshipped or followed blindly. They are just as capable of sin as every other human being on the face of the earth. These people who say they were ruined by fundamentalism just don’t want to take responsibility for choices they made in order to “fit in” with a clique because that’s all it was about-fitting in and having the “right” people recognize you. I don’t regret one day of my time at HAC. It changed my life in a positive way. I’m a high school teacher, teaching in a PUBLIC school and ministering to my students. All this ridiculousness about HAC putting out child molesters and abusers is just stupid. Never once did I hear in any class or sermon that men should abuse their wives or their children to get them to submit. All I heard was that men should love their wives as Christ loved the church and raise their children in the nourishment and admonition of the Lord. Were there men who were abusive or had the potential to be abusive? Definitely, but not because of what they learned at HAC. I don’t believe for one second that HAC has any more pedifiles or abusers than any other college, christian or secular. I don’t know the statistics or whether anyone has ever even done any statistical studies on it, but I’m sure the only difference is that when it’s an HAC grad, a bigger deal is made out of it because somehow HAC is supposed to be immune. Well, news flash, as long as human beings attend HAC, there will be sinners attending HAC and that goes for any and all other “christian” colleges and universities. People just say garbage and it’s automatically believed because people want to believe garbage rather than truth.
Hardly.
Yeah, for example, nobody makes a big deal about it when an assistant coach at a state university abuses children … Oh, wait.
You say Hyles didn’t demand worship, well he seemed to accept it. I have never been a member of that church, nor did I go to that college, I have only twice in my life been to that church to visit. On one occasion a group from my church in Michigan went for a Wednesday pastor’s school and Hyles was to be there to preach. I guess his habit was to preach in other churches on Monday and Tuesday and come back to preach in chapel on Wednesdays. He came out and the students cheered for 10 minutes straight, clapping hands, shouting accolades. I kid you not it was at least 10 minutes. After this did Jack Hyles return the praise to the Lord? He did not. He accepted it. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing.
I heard rumour of a pastor’s school where everyone wore buttons that said 100% Hyles. Now if this isn’t man worship I don’t know what is. What happened to 100% Jesus? 😕
I would go beyond saying he accepted it to say that he encouraged it and enjoyed it.
He never taught that the Glory of God was the only thing that should be worshipped and praised… I don’t remember him focusing much on that subject at all. But he did focus a lot on the glory of himself.
Thanks to SFL, I’ve read some of Hyles’ books and articles. They’re all about how great Jack Hyles is and how many souls Hyles has “won.”
He may mention somewhere that Jesus is Lord, but that really isn’t the point. The point is how much Hyles has done for Jesus, and how God couldn’t really get along without Hyles.
Honolulu! BG, Honolulu! Preach it! 😆
Yep and that is the whole thing about brainwashing. If you can make them think it is THEIR idea to worship you, then you can sit back and say, “I would NEVER want them to worship ME” and behind your hand is the little smirk, smile that says, “Of course, they just can’t help themselves” because everything you have done up to that point is designed to make them think you are the greatest thing in the world. It makes me mad because I was sucked into it when I was there too. I know there are people who come out of it unscathed (my husband was one of them) but that was not really the intent of the place. He, his underlings, anyone who had achieved any power were there for one reason and one reason alone. Their OWN glory, NOT God’s. Until God gets ALL the glory and man gets NONE, we are still on the wrong track.
I remember when Dr. Hyles spoke in chapel it was a very special time because we all admired him as a man of God, not because we worshipped him. Dr. John R. Rice, Dr. Robertson, John R. Rice III, Lester Roloff and many others I don’t remember received the same kind of greeting from the HAC students, and no one says anything about that. I’m just tired of the HAC bashing. It wasn’t bad for everyone, and those who felt they were being brainwashed or ended up doing horrible things seem to be getting the most attention. I know that for every bad preacher who came out of HAC there are many who are wonderful and have great ministries and have helped many people. And I know there are many HAC graduates like me who have gone on from there to lead productive, spiritual lives and who have contributed in positive ways to their communities. I speak for us.
and to the claim that you “admired hmi as a man of God” and that such admiration is perfectly ok, I say this:
where is the doctrine of the priesthood of believers in this kind of thinking? Are we not all “men and women of God,” on equal ground in the sight of God? To elevate or admire a man for his “spirituality” or perceived closeness to God is blasphemous.
That’s right because it leads to the whole idea that the fundy pastor is never wrong and can never be questioned. It’s cultic. They then will take the verse that says we’re to obey those who have leadership over us, but they take it to extremes. They begin to pry into your private life, to the extent that nothing you do is private anymore. Like a couple weeks ago someone who’d worked at the fundy school had her purse searched by her pastor. How does anyone get to the point where they think something like this is acceptable? 👿
http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/pdf/thejackhylesstory.pdf
Lest we forget, this expose’ was written by fundamentalists. They were actually policing one of their own.
I think I’ve read this before, or at least part of it. Problem is with the Hyles sychophants, they would refuse to read it because they’d consider it to be anti-Hyles. Just like my Mormon friend refuses to read anything considered anti Mormon. When you are in a cult you believe that anything written to expose it is forbidden to you to read. It’s unfortunate because if they at least read it they might begin to question things. 😕
I also wanted to address the “100% Hyles” pins that were passed out at pastor’s school one year. I do not know the context under which they were passed out, but based on my experiences at HAC, I can definitively say that Brother Hyles would NOT have done that in an attempt to garner worship for himself. I would even venture to guess that he knew nothing about it and that his staff did it as a surprise for him during what was clearly a very difficult time in his ministry. I am sure they were created to show support for him as a person going through a difficult time. Based on my experience at HAC and FBCH, they could only mean “we support and believe in you and your ministry 100%.” I believe the context of the pins, like many other things about HAC, have been misrepresented.
What were the reasons for him going through such a difficult time?
Yes I hope formerHACer will answer this for us. I have a feeling I know the answer. Was it possibly when he was being accused of adultery? Of course his brainwashed people wouldn’t hear a word of it. I never addressed this issue with the former pastor because I know he’d have looked horrified at the thought that Hyles could sin at all, let alone commit adultery! That was his idol after all! I don’t know if I believe it or not, since I was not there. But I am not ruling it out either. 🙁
If I recall correctly the “hard time” he was going through was due to Vic (the husband of Jenny) relentlessly trying to get his voice heard by the blind followers of Hyles. Some people did hear him and were leaving the church or *worse* asking QUESTIONS {gasp!} Who cares WHO made them? People wore them. Sheesh. It all sickens me.
My children had a math teacher in the Christian School they attended who was a Jack Hyles diciple. He got visibably angry at a student who dared bring up the subject of Jack’s infidelity. He spent the rest of the day telling each of his classes how great Jack Hyles was and how Jack was his spiritual hero. (as a side note his classes only received hafl of the instruction in algebra that year due to his sermonizing in class rather than teaching the material.) So if this Hyles sycophant is representative of the caliber of preacher boy types HAC produced then I believe the postings on SFL are more than justified.
That teacher could well have been our former pastor if he’d gone into teaching. 🙁
Now it’s a sad thing indeed when I have to wonder to myself would I rather sit through algebra or Hyles Hyles Hyles during classtime and come up with the answer, I’d have preferred algebra. I hated algebra in school! 👿
half george, “h-a-l-f” and it’s disciple…
“Based on my experience at HAC and FBCH, they could only mean “we support and believe in you and your ministry 100%.”
former HACer:
you say this as if the above statement were an innocent thing. And yet the Bible clearly tells us not to trust in man, but in God. To “believe in” man, to rally behind man, to cheerlead for man,–for ANY man– is to be deceived.
I read Mr. Sumner’s articles. I knew Vic when I was at FBCH. I met with Dr. Hyles in private counseling. I spent 4 years at HAC and FBCH. I worked in the bus ministry, went soul winning, worked in the deaf ministry and the spanish ministry. I didn’t agree with everything that went on there nor did I agree with some of the methodology nor did I agree with the actions of some of the faculty and staff. However, it was not for me to judge other people, it was for me to live my life the way Christ would have me live it regardless of what others may or may not have been doing around me. It was for me to help forward the cause of Christ not condemn others and cause stumbling blocks for others by my criticism. God is the judge. Dr. Hyles has met his maker and has been held accountable for whatever his personal life here on earth may have been. Mr. Sumner and Vic Nischik will someday stand before God and be held accountable for whatever their lives here on earth may be. And someday I will stand before God to be held accountable for my life here on earth. The continued criticism of God’s people and the rifts and divisions that people have chosen to create in fundamentalism are not of God. All I can speak of is my experience at HAC, and my life was changed in a positive way by Brother Hyles ministry and HAC while I was there.
I also went to Hyles Anderson and First Baptist Church and since I was raised in that system, I wouldn’t say that my life was changed in any way because at the time it was all I knew. I served in all the ministries there, willingly and for the most part cheerfully. I would not say that at this point I am bitter about what I saw while I was there, but I will say that the “god” they are serving there is NOT the God of the Bible. I am sure that many people there sincerely believe that it is, and that they are not serving man or their own flesh, but the truth is that there is some very messed up stuff there, and until I learned TRUE Chrisitanity I didn’t even know how messed up it was. Yes, we will all account to God. I don’t want to meet God with my eyes on anyone but Him.