You can view the entire handbook including some really fantastic modesty guidelines for women students here (PDF). On the upside, at least this “college” has the guts to actually post its student handbook online. (I’m looking at you BJU and PCC).
(For more on Crown College you can check out a promotional video we featured last year.)
This is going to be a very talked about topic! We are having a snow day so I’ll be home all day too!
Ha! I posted this on my Facebook, and one of my IFB “Friends” said:
The only ones who should care about this are the ones who pay to be there. It is odd, but really it’s none of our business how a private institution is run unless we go there.
If they were racists they wouldn’t allow people of color to apply to college. Interracial marriage still has a stigma in a few circles because the couples have in the past been in rebellion to their parents. I don’t believe that is the case these days, but that’s just the way things have been. Doesn’t mean this should be in the college rules, but it does not make them racist.
Listen, we have a great couple in our church from that college that are interracial, and I haven’t heard them complain about stuff from there. Don’t tear down other people’s standards just because you don’t agree or understand them.
You know, when you comment on stuff, it helps to know what you’re talking about. Interracial marriage still has a stigma in some circles because some people are still bigots.
Period.
Exactly. Couldn’t believe he said all of that. It was pretty obvious that he’s still quite in love with IFB stuff….
So true! How dare you question their racism? Just because you may want to be a decent human being doesn’t mean than everyone wants to!
This racist policy is wrong. In fact it is downright evil.
Unbelievable. I always used to say I wouldn’t have made it 5 minutes in one of these fundy colleges. This only proves it. What right do they have to set even half of these rules? What possible difference can it make how long the chaperone couple has been married? Why do interracial couples have to have an added stipulation to their dating? Boy do I look forward to the posts today especially from those of you who lived through this! 😈
Interracial couples. Of course I want to approve my son’s dates. Who wants pasty white grandchildren?
We need to make sure the Anglos stick with the anglos, the Saxons with the saxons, the nordics by themselves. We don’t want any of those Italians or Greek stock polluting us.
There is a saying in Spanish: “Y tu abuela, adonde esta? Which translates very roughly as: “why are you trying to hide your grandmother?”
This is possibly my very favorite post so far! RICARDO! Who KNEW you were SO FUNNY!!! LOL! I am going to memorize that saying in Spanish for future reference. 😆 😆 😆
Haha! Um, my dad is Italian and my mom was Puerto Rican. Who was polluting who?
Ha! We’ve adopted one biracial boy and one african american boy from foster care, and, I have to tell you, white babies are flat ugly to us now. We watched a five-month-old for a friend recently, and I kept telling my wife how off his skin tone was and how ugly he was. Hate to tell the Fundies, but biracial kids are cute/beautiful kids. Why ruin a good thing???
My mother (of Danish ancestry) says her parents did not approve of her marriage to a Latin dude, until the first baby was born, blonde and blue-eyed.
But, of course, they met at that den of iniquity: Wheaton College.
“Interracial dating must be approved in writing and verbally by the parents of both students.”
In writing AND verbally? Whatever that may mean (in writing IS verbally, since “verbally” means “using words”), it’s just wrong.
I’m sure my parents would give me permission to date someone of another race, if I asked them, but since I’m over 21, and so would be anyone I dated, what business is it of theirs?
Of course, Crown College apparently has less of a problem with 22-year-old college students dating high school juniors than with them dating other adults with a different skin tone …
Are you suggesting Clarence Sexton is racist??? Because I have thought so,, for thirty years now.
My sister is 17, and she was being “courted” (that word makes me throw up in my mouth a little) by a 27-year-old guy who used to be our church’s youth leader. No one seemed bothered by this, but I’m 25 and I still catch hell for having a 40-year-old fiancee. Hmm, could it be because he’s Jewish? 🙄
Oh, no need for sarcasm! I’m a sinner. Oh yes, I’m a sinner… 😉 😆
😯 A 27 year old guy?!? Excuse me but what in the flamin’ blue hell are your parents thinking?!? My niece just started high school and if someone a decade older than her started looking at her, my SiL would serve him his balls for lunch. Deep fried. While still attached. That is just sick!
Yeah, I found it creepy, too. My dad is a cardiologist, so he’s basically on-the-job 24/7, and he’s never been the most involved parent. It was mainly my stepmom who allowed it (funny how often the wife is the one who REALLY runs a fundy family, isn’t it?), and her reasoning was that the guy was a nice Christian boy, and of course would never do anything unseemly. 🙄
The sad part: as a private institution, they have every right to enforce almost anything they want. They could force everyone to wear all red on Wednesdays if they wanted.
The question is: why are these rules in place?
The answer to that holds the key to the fundamentalist leader’s mind….
The fact is that most students entering a Christian college have been under very strict control all of their life – to have them attend college in a distance with no rules will cause a shipwreck of an immature life. I’ve watched it happen.
The *real* solution is for parents to relax their strictness to verify how mature their child is and not send him (her) off to college.
However, so many parents expect the colleges to also keep a tight rein on their children that the college has adopted such strict rules.
Many teens are not mature, and have a hard time controlling themselves… it does take some time to learn to govern or control our passions.
So, the college probably has the best of motives in trying to minimize the chances of immorality.
I don’t mind their stance regarding interracial dating; far, far better than just outlawing it, they merely want to be certain that both parents agree. Even if one is over 21, presumably, your parents are still part of your life. However, if you’re paying your own tuition, then perhaps it shouldn’t be forbidden – but I think that the parents should know.
I agree that the married one year as a chaperone is probably implying something unpleasant about newlyweds… what do they suddenly gain at 12 months that they didn’t have at 11.5? Why not 14 months? Or 18 months?
Well said.
Wait a minute. Are you seriously saying that two adults who want to hang out together and possibly see if a deeper relationship develops must first notify their parents based on race? “Oh, sorry, I can’t meet you at the coffee shop because my dad’s a racist so he wouldn’t sign the permission slip and if I don’t get the permission slip signed they’re going to kick me out of this college.” This is supposed to be okay? Seriously? I really hope I missed something.
The dating policy is completely unacceptable. By holding interracial couples to a different standard and adding a potential roadblock, Crown College has revealed its overt racism.
It is up to the adult students to tell their parents about their relationships when they determine it is appropriate, not up to the school to stick its nose into the situation. What a ridiculous invasion of privacy!
This whole new covenant gospel stuff clearly makes people uncomfortable. There’s this gut reaction to grace that says ‘it can be as good as it sounds, I had better govern it with extra biblical laws.’
“Grace is messy, we’d prefer you simply go up to that mountain for us and bring us down a new set of rules. Rules we understand. Grace is simply to risky. Rules make us feel safe. Rules make us feel spiritual. Rules make us feel better than you.”
Tut-tut come now we all know that “Grace” is only something to sing about. One cannot rely on “mere Grace” to actually make you good enough for heaven! Goodness what possessed you to think that Grace should apply to one’s daily life? We must be righteous and the only way to be righteous is to follow our Church’s sanctified set rules … at least until we need more rules. If we keep our rules then we will be squeeky clean regarding God’s rules. If We keep ourselves pure then there is no need for “grace.” And you know if we sanctified, set apart, separated, righteous adult struggle with keeping the rules then we must makd even stricter rules for our children so that they can be good like we are as well. Say, do you have anymore of that kool-aid? ummmm, it’s so refreahing.
I think it would be easier to not date at all.
You got that right, it would have been! But in my time, and at HAC at least, the atmosphere was loaded. Everyone, it seemed, was “in love,” and marriage was looked at as something that must be achieved by graduation. When I left, single, to go teach far away, I was told I should feel guilty for being so excited to be starting my life after HAC that way! JH himself, on a visit to the church where I was teaching, told the single girl grads that if we stayed happily single, people may start to wonderr about our sexual orientation. At that point, I was already questioning so much, that his comment nearly made me burst into giggles. One does NOT laugh at JH, so I clamped down on that…. 🙄 🙄 🙄 👿
Hmmm, now I’m wondering about Hyles’ sexual orientation. As with so many other things, he seems to protest too much about it …
Seriously, though, why should I care what anybody else thinks about my sexual orientation? Their gossip is not my problem.
I think the jury will be out for a loooong time, on all of JH’s sexual hangups. Let’s see… He slept in the basement and not with his wife, justified to himself a long relationship with a church staff member, had a secret door connecting thir offices made and hidden…. Told his mistress’ husband to sleep in his own basement….. Visited the girls’ dorms… Was overly attached to Mama… Most spectacularly, raised a monster of sexual perversion, against whom the accusations lie thick on the floor… Yes, I think there are even more skeletons in closets, there, than what we already know. 👿
I am fully aware we all have done things we are not proud of but if there was really a jumbotron screen showing all that was hidden while we were here on this earth, JH’s would be quite shocking I am sure… 😈
Did anyone think it was creepy that Hyles, an older married man, visited yhe DORMS of young college girls? Ewwww. Makes my skin crawl!
I just found some pictures from when I was in college and some of them are him dressed up like an ice cream vendor (white suit with a bell and an ice cream cart) going through the dorms handing out ice cream to the girls. I remember the girls squealing like a rock star was in their presence. I am actually surprised they weren’t throwing their panties at him.
Oh, and by the way, where I live, the ice cream carts is where people buy their drugs. I don’t know if that is how it is everywhere, but I think it is kind of interesting that is what he chose to dress up as.
I would have thought maybe a pimp costume would have been more appropriate though.
Sims, that is just so disgusting. I was only at that place twice in my life, once was on a Wednesday when he preached in chapel. They must’ve clapped and applauded and cheered for 10 minutes. I kept waiting for him to break it up and say applaud for Jesus not for me, something like that but he didn’t. He basked in it. That just so disgusted me.
I’ve read a lot of stuff about how the girls went goo goo eyed at him, and I can’t help but wonder WHY? He was nothing to look at! He was older than their fathers, what gives with that? It reminded me of some teenage girl going gaga over a rock star.
Once I brought home from our church library a boatload of cassette tapes from him and even just listening to him on tape, all he did was snivel every few seconds as he preached. It was very distracting. I guess if you’re there all the time you can sort of tune that out but I kept thinking will someone give him a handkerchief so he can blow his nose? 😡
I’ll bet he got off on all those girls worshiping him. To me it’s utterly disgusting. 👿
Oh, you better KNOW he got off on it. He flirted and cavorted and played it up to the fullest extent of his abilities.
I think the reason it was that way though is that he had built himself up SO MUCH and deprived the college students so greatly that he could come in and play the role of “Generous Daddy” and the girls were filling up a hole in their lives. When you are starving (Physically and emotionally) You are away from home, can’t go on a date, you miss your parents and family, and someone shows up with a pizza, you don’t care if he looks like a turtle crossed with Hitler, you still get excited about what he might give you.
When I returned as an employee, he got angry one night at a girls’ meeting that women employees were not there. He gave those of us there fifty dollars, for being there. I never went to another. I had been out for four years, away from the miasma, and that bribery and pettiness just disgusted me.
@Sims “turtle crossed with Hitler” BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! 😆 😆 😆
My sister went to HAC — there was also some kind of a song/chant the girls would do whenever he came up to the dorm. She’s still enamored of him, though.
Nailed it. The atmosphere at Crown was one of unbelievable sexual tension.
At least for me,
– The biblecollege promoters had heavily emphasized the ‘meet-your-mate’ aspect of biblecollege.
– Fundamentalist Youth pastor strongly discourages teens from dating, saying, ‘wait until biblecollege.’
– I knew between 20 and 40 fundy girls my age. between 500 and 600 new people, all of whom fit into my very, very narrow demographic.
‘to Carthage then I came, where all around me in my ears sang a cauldron of unholy loves.’
Excellent observation. I’m guessing you didn’t read Augustine there, but that quote captures the imagery well.
You know, I didn’t go to a fundy college by any means, but I did go to a significantly more lenient Southern Baptist college and the atmosphere was similar. We had a saying, “Ring by spring or your money back!” We also always said that girls only went there to get their Mrs. degree (I, thankfully, did not). For the most part, it’s true. It has always been a pet peeve of mine that Christians from all sorts of backgrounds put so many limitations on their youth, then throw them into a school together and let those pent up hormones loose. I have seen so many young people get married simply because they wanted to have sex and knew they shouldn’t outside of marriage. It is frustrating beyond belief to me, because there’s so much more to married life than having sex…but that’s the only part I ever really heard talked about in church (between True Love Waits ceremonies and sex is a no-no discussions). Such an idea leaves nothing to be excited about after the honeymoon, I think. I’m not married, but I’ve watched many a marriage fall apart (or start out rotten from the get-go)…I made it a personal goal not to marry based solely on physical attraction or sexual desire. I just wish other Christian late-teens and twenty-somethings had the same experiences I did…or could at least see what they’re getting themselves into. Marriage isn’t a pass to have sex, but a lasting commitment to a person. *sigh* I get so frustrated at oppressive ideals. There are ways to teach these things without making them taboo and therefore more appealing.
Gosh, I just wrote a lot. I hope all that made sense…
To add to this a bit…
It’s not *just* sex that pushes these kids into marriage, but also the idea (generally unspoken, but no less potent) that one cannot be a “real adult” until they are married and, subsequently, have children (though I’ve heard this is mostly a southern thing…you yankees can let me know is that’s true or not ;)). I run into this snag a lot in my own life, being a single female in her late twenties. Most people do not take me seriously as an adult without a ring on my finger. The concept of not being “complete” without a partner pushes people into desperation, and that may cause them to make a decision they aren’t completely comfortable with simply to be taken seriously…or worse, to be okay with themselves. I hate watching people make rash decisions based on the often incorrect opinions of others and then crumble when things don’t turn out the way they were “supposed” to.
Okay…I think I’m done here. Sheesh!
@CheddarPuff – well said. Many, many young people at Christian colleges end up marrying the wrong person because they feel pressure to get married by a certain age. And people wonder why the divorce rate among Christians is so high.
That’s one of the reasons I never dated while at Fundy U…it was too much trouble! What you may not realize is that there are likely MANY more rules that aren’t listed here which could randomly be applied as the staff member feels necessary.
It just makes me sick thinking about all those stupid rules I used to put up with. 👿
This was in response to Megan’s comment, not yours Seen Enough. You type quicker than I.
No worries, exOBC! 😉
I felt the exact same way at BJU. There were so many rules and stipulations that were added at each weekly hall and dorm meeting that it’s any wonder anyone could keep up at all. My senior year I dated a grad who lived off campus. Somehow the rules were very lax for that type of relationship.
This kind of “dating” doesn’t seem worth the trouble. A whole bunch of permissions to get and paperwork, and then you can’t touch each other, talk in private, or do much of anything together. Why bother?
So what happens if two students of opposite sexes at a fundy college touch each other? Do they spontaneously combust?
Yes! I remember sitting next to my husband in chapel and when we were passing the offering plate (why were they taking up an offering in chapel? None of us had any money!) but when I handed him the plate our fingers touched underneath it. I felt SO excited and SO guilty and you would think he had gone to second base right there in the chapel. It is one of my most romantic memories of Bible College.
Oh! Oh! Clarification! We weren’t married yet at that time. (That was probably why he married me, to make an honest woman out of me since he had touched me and all.) 🙄
At BJU, you would be “socialed” from each other for 2 weeks, which meant no face to face communication whatsoever and receive anywhere from 50-75 demerits. I had some friends who would sit at separate tables right next to each other and talk on the phone. You can only imagine how ridiculous this looks.
Later, when I had my own office, with a locking door, and could go off campus whenever, dating was a whole different story. 😉 Ooh la la.
Of course “our” children are not capable of thinking for themselves and dealing with real life situtations. Of course we are not preparing them to go out into the worldly world and be witnesses… we only want them to be a good witness in the Church so that when the world comes in they will see how well behaved our children are in contrast to their’s. Why, yes, I believe I will have some more Kool-aid. Ummm, refreshing!
So I guess a gay couple would flourish in this environment. The rules only apply to straight couples. :p
And yet they still find condom wrappers in the phone books in the dorms. (True story, as told to me by a somewhat recent graduate.)
There are Biblical lines to be drawn – fornication’s pretty much a no-no any way you look at it – but stigmatizing good old-fashioned affection can’t be healthy.
Wow this is proof that this school is behind the times!
…who still uses phone books after all? 😉
I laughed so hard my coffee nearly shot out of my mouth. I did choke a little! Yes, those phone books are a sure sign these places may be a bit bakward…. 😉 😆
…just like people who cannot spell “backward,” George….
Glad to be of service 🙂
I find this community fascinating just because it’s so different from my background (I spent my late teens following the Grateful Dead around the country) so the least I can do is try to have a few good jokes 🙂
You are so right, Mounty. IMO, it just made dating couples think about it more; they were not only beyond frustration, but some became obsessed. i never saw a more bizarre setup.
Women don’t have to treat their dates with “respect, courtesy or kindness.” Yesssssss!
Of course not. That’s not what the clients at your dungeon are paying for, is it, Mistress Laurat99?
I have that exact business plan, but can’t get any banks to finance it. 🙂
I kept reading that as “Clown College”…I suppose I wasn’t far off…
Hahaha! Aeropostale in Knoxville’s West Town mall sold Clown College t-shirts, at least during 2004.
How recent is this? (Thinking about the interracial dating rule)
I was wondering the same thing for the same reason…
It’s current. Check out page 16!
http://thecrowncollege.com/media/college/files/09-10studenthandbook.pdf
haha idk I think most of these are pretty fair. I mean i’ll only be a twenty year old college freshman that can legally vote, smoke, almost drink, and give my life for my country. How in the world can I be trusted to handle a relationship in a mature manner. That’s a lot to ask for. Same with the type of “real life” struggles every man and woman has to deal with. Why would I bother learning how to handle them when i could have a good godly administration breathing down my neck to make sure I’m just following the rules. That’s how one learns true godliness after all. Learning to just do what you’re told. 😡 (and yes this is sarcasm)
So … physical contact between couples who are enjoying those “brief, casual encounters” is totally cool? I’m down with that!
I hadn’t thought of it that way. Maybe it would be a fun place to be, after all.
glad to see that high school students are partially off limits, at least they protect the freshman and sophomore girls from predator upperclassmen.
Andy – They’re talking about frosh/soph girls in high school! The rules are written for college students! So I theoretically you could be protecting against a 24/25 year old College senior dating a 13 year old high school freshman. 11 years isn’t that big of deal once both parties are working and usually in their mid 20’s and beyond. But I can only imagine that the rules were written probably because someone was mackin’ all over those HS girls in youth group.
repulsive…can you tell I have daughters?
Those girls are off limits for the college students because they are on hold for the teachers and youth pastors.
😯 😯 😆 😆 if, there would have been coffee in my mouth when I read this, it would have shot out!
Wow, these rules are VERY similar to the WCBC hand-book… And as someone said above… why date? Seriously. I hope these kinds of places shut down eventually, because they’ll never change.
you can totally make-out in a hallway between “the great hall” and the bookstore. We witnessed at least 20 different couples (including us) make use of it in the evenings. but dont tell anyone or you’ll ruin it for everyone…
… Whoops …
What? You too!
I’m reading through the whole insane document, and you can’t wash, service, or repair your vehicle at your dorm? Also, if vehicle ownership is detrimental to your spiritual development they’ll revoke your car permissions. I love how these fundie colleges think they can own their students.
At my Fundy U, they tried to tell me that I couldn’t have a motorcycle…AFTER I’d already purchased one. 🙄 Needless to say I was the ONLY student who dared to drive it around and even clean it smiling in front of the college president Jimmy V. 😎
I guess they lacked the legal terms/authority to tell me to get rid of it. 😈
I would have paid money to see the look on JV’s face. 😆
It was the most PRICELESS scowl!
I was also parked right up front near the sidewalk so everyone saw it. 😎
I know of many apartment complexes that do not allow you to do car repairs in the parking lot. I have seen the places that do allow it or don’t enforce the restriction and those complexes are the same ones that the local cops are always being called too, if you catch my meaning. It is just a way of trying to keep the place looking nice.
I can agree with your statement, Chad, about wanting to keep the place looking nice. However, most (who are we joking – probably all) apartment complexes allow you to leave the premises at your own free will without filing paper work, demaning that you not leave with a member of the opposite sex, and without the stipulation that you can’t do anything on Sunday.
I think your statement is a little spin doctor-ish.
I don’t know about the college’s off campus requirements, I was just speaking about the issue of doing car work in hte parking lot.
Right, which is my point as well. If the Fundy U’s rule is no car maintanence on campus, then students should be easily allowed to go off campus to have their serviced, or to service it themselves. An apartment complex may have this same rule, but those living at the apartment complex can leave freely. Fundy U’s don’t allow people to leave freely.
Right, which is my point as well. You made the comparison between Fudy U’s and an apartment complex’s rule regarding no car maintenance on campus. I agree with what you said about keeping the campus looking nice, however, those living in an apartment complex adhering to the same rule can generally freely leave to have their car services elsewhere (or, service it themselves). You can’t just leave Fundy U to get your car service. Therein lies the real conflict. I mean, what hoops do you have to jump through to leave campus for this one simple task?
Right, which is my point as well. You made the comparison between Fudy U’s and an apartment complex’s rule regarding no car maintenance on campus. I agree with what you said about keeping the campus looking nice, however, those living in an apartment complex adhering to the same rule can generally freely leave to have their car services elsewhere (or, service it themselves). You can’t just leave Fundy U to get your car service. Therein lies the real conflict. I mean, what hoops do you have to jump through to leave campus for this one simple task?
That rule was passed while I was an inmate at Crown. A girl that I knew vaguely was ‘caught’ fixing her car by C. Sexton. (I believe her father was a professional mechanic for one of the big car brands). He decided that it was unseemly for women or anyone but especially women to work on their cars in public.
FYI, I worked on my car in the parking lot when I needed to and did not get in trouble. Once, a low-ranking staff member stopped and gave me a hand for about an hour.
A girl who knows how to fix cars?
Boys, stop what you’re doing right now, find that girl, and marry her!!
Apartments, nothing. We’re not allowed to work on our cars in the driveway of our home! Or out in front on the street, either. Work on cars, even if it’s just changing the oil, has to be done inside the garage, preferably with the door down. Chad’s right. This is about keeping the area looking nice, and it might also be a way of making sure there’s room for people to park or to move freely around the parking lot.
Wait, you let someone else tell you what you can and can’t do on your own property? There’s no way I’d allow someone to tell me what I can and can’t do when I’ve paid for the house and property, I don’t care who they are unless that something is illegal and it’s a police officer telling me to quit.
If the neighborhood has a homeowners’ association, then it is a legal matter. For example, my parents sold the front part of their property as lots. They formed a homeowners’ association in order to specify certain things like lawn maintenance, no yard cars, etc., on the properties. Those documents are a contractual part of the title and signing.
My personal favourite is the one where it says no sunbathing on campus. Assuming one is swathed in fabric from head to toe, how are you supposed to get a tan anyway? 🙄
(But actually the bit I find scariest is the rules about where/how far you can travel – including during vacations)
We used to count ourselves lucky if we could even get out for summer break as we had to have replacements for ourselves in our bus ministry obligations or we weren’t allowed to leave! I wonder if Crown has similar rules?
Wow. Wow wow wow. Vineyard is insane. I only stayed one summer at HAC, and it had nothing to do with not being able to find a replacement….
I’m sure that explains why nobody wanted to be a bus captain. 😉
This sounds almost like the old ‘pass laws’ that were in effect for slaves and free blacks in the Old South. I wonder if they just filed off the serial numbers and incorporated them into the manual?
While I realize you’re being hyberbolic (and obviously this rule is way draconian), I do think it’s a little inappropriate to compare to slavery things that are more minor.
Point taken. Although the racial attitudes involved here aren’t far from Jim Crow and the restrictions are well beyond what passed for the in loco parentis standards most universities followed in the early 20th century. One wonders how these restrictions are even enforced.
I find it interesting that for some reason the level of Fundyism I grew up in automatically had me looking down on Crown as a “liberal” college right in the BJU category. I remember a student at our Christian school attended Crown and we used to think that he must’ve had it so easy there. 🙄
That’s what spending too much time with the likes of Jim Vineyard will do for ya. 😡 😆
I just realized exOBCstudent was a student at VINEYARD’s college of preacherboys! OH you have ALL my sympathy. Vineyard was the WORST! I was at HAC when he was bus director there and he was absolutely batsh*t insane! I am so sorry for you. (I am glad you are EXobcstudent though)
Lol we had to read his blue bus worker book that he made while he was at HAC…that’s showing some age there Sims!
Yeah the guy was nuts…I used to guard his house and the girls campus paying special attention to the shack with all his stockpiled ammo for his machine guns and assault rifles. No joke! 😯 🙄 😈
Wowww… My husband would probably like that part acutally (the ammo stockpile)
We visited his church when we were in Oklahoma a long time ago. One of his *preacherboys* came up and did his little song and dance, (Firm handshake, look husband straight in the eye, and start asking for information.) “Where are you from?” “What brings you here?” etc. We had just changed churches OUT of the IFB but weren’t entirely out yet (not out enough to know better than to go to HIS church anyway) and the guy asked what church we went to (back home) and my husband said the name of the church, and the guy asked what the name of the pastor there was. (As if he might know him or something.) For some reason both my husband and I drew a blank on the guy’s name. We hadn’t been going there very long, and we just both went blank. It was one of the most hysterically embarrassingly funny moments of my life. We just looked at each other in this dopey way waiting for the other one to remember (It is usually MY job to remember the names, he is better with numbers) but neither of us could remember. The guy looked at us like we were the most pathetic heathens he had ever encountered. I think he said something sarcastic like, “Well, you must really go there often” or “You must really love it there.” We slunk away with our heads low. (but giggled about it over lunch.)
At the risk of repeating myself,
http://www.koco.com/news/16860079/detail.html
So sad that the interracial couple stipulation can all at once seem progressive from the vantage point of fundy-dom and still miss the point entirely.
Bahaha I’ll have to dig up my fundy U handbook.
The funny thing is it had alllllll these rules: but they never enforced more than maybe a third of them? All the dating rules they have were only enforced if they didn’t approve of the couple! The interracial rules especially: we had quite a few American Indian and Filipino students, and as far as I know they never made an issue of it.
BUT. My brother used to meet his now fiance at her work every weekend to bring cookies and such, and when they found out, she was expelled because they were all “unofficial dates” and she racked up enough demerits to get expelled. My brother felt bad but I was ecstatic 😛 Dating at Fundy U’s is no fun at all.
Well, maybe now she can go to an accredited college and get a degree that’s actually worth something.
… Was it Bob Jones U where I heard that mixed-race students were told to choose one of their races, and then that would be the only one they could date? Crazy on top of crazy.
I spent four years of my life in this gulag. (bangs head softly on table and cries)
I spent thousands of dollars there for my “education”. (Funny, they don’t have a problem charging interest on your bill if you are behind even though usury is clearly unBiblical)
Several of the rules in the rulebook have my name beside them. I used to joke that I didn’t break the rules so much as I created the need for new rules!
Seriously, if one person commits an infraction at Stalag Luft Crown a rule is passed that everyone has to follow in perpetuity.
I explored the surrounding countryside thoroughly. I found a small park in a clearing by the Clinch River about 40 miles from Crown. That is where I took my then girlfriend (now wife) for our dates. Heck no we didn’t take a chaperone! We always took a picnic and a blanket though. 😆 😆
We did meet one couple who were awesome chaperones. They would drop us off wherever and remember something “they had to run and buy”. They would “be right back” in about 4 hours or so. This would give us plausible deniability with the Demerit Patrol.
The majority of these laws were in effect back when I was there. I wanted to talk to a Hispanic girl while I was there. I was warned that this would be “interracial dating” and would need special permission.
The thing was, they define speaking to the opposite sex as dating. You need special permission to ‘date’ someone of a different race. Essentially they are saying that you need all four parents’ permission before two people can sit on a bench and chat. Talk about pressure. Once you go through all of that you are kind of already committed.
Lots and lots of memories about Clown College. Is it too early to start drinking?
My Clown College degree is nearly worthless by the way.
First, no. It’s not to early to drink. Second, the problem with the rules, at least at the fundy U I attended, was that there was always exceptions. As in, my girlfriend (now wife), did everything the rule book asked us to do and more. Yet when we got engaged and applied for engaged couple status we were denied. Why? Some ridiculous application of an obscure rule that didn’t apply to us. Yet the couple who had been campused a few weeks earlier for making out in the dating parlor (and he had been kicked out the year before for drinking) were granted engaged couple status because the girl was a favorite of the president. Frustrated by trying to do it the right way, we said piss on it and didn’t even try to follow the rules after that.
Lastly, as someone who is almost 100% Dutch and my wife is almost 100% German, what boxes do we check on the inter-racial dating form?
Based on the definition given for “dating”, unbeknownst to me I have been on lots and lots of dates all these years that I thought I was alone!! I have dated many races and even married men!! Yikes, does that make me an adultress?? 😯 😯 🙄 😳 Who would have guessed you could be “dating” and not even know it?? I’ve ridden in cars with lots of men, is my reputation beyond repair??? Barf. 😕
Apathetic. When were you there? I was there too. Just in a different context than you were.
Is it just me, or does the fundies’ objection to interracial relationships seems to focus entirely on black/white couples, and more specifically black men/white women? It doesn’t seem to bother anyone very much when a missionary brings home a Filipino wife (or at least that’s how it was in my church).
I had a roommate that was a Pacific Islander. No one bothered him when he was dating a Hispanic girl. Now when he wanted to move on to a white girl there was trouble.
I was reading Thucydides yesterday and saw this quote:
“……….and those unwritten laws which it is an acknowledged shame to break”.
(From Pericles’ funeral oration 37)
Clown College has plenty of these unwritten laws as well!
Most Fundy Us do.
I don’t want to clog up the board reminiscing about my time there.
I enjoyed the best of both worlds while I was there. I carefully cultivated a goody two shoes persona that most people saw. Those who got to know me knew that I broke the rules that I considered stupid or unBiblical and it didn’t bother me to do so.
1. I had unapproved music in my car.
2. I took unapproved go-home weekends.
3. I “made-out” with my future wife frequently. Sometimes on campus. Usually at a park about 40 miles away.
4. I left the area when I had a day off. The Smoky Mountains were outside the 50 mile radius. I frequently went there to hike. Sometimes I drove to NC to hike.
5. I worked overnight. I worked way past midnight the whole time I was at Crown.
6. I copied the keys to staff members cars and moved them frequently (This was before keys were chipped). That one got a lecture from the pulpit to the entire student body. I was never caught.
7. I stayed out all night. Many times.
8. I went to parties off campus. By parties I mean people in my ministry group eating nachos and watching a G-rated movie. Nothing sinister at all.
9. I was usually involved in any shenanigans or knew who was. I always targeted the staff with my pranks.
10. Several times my future wife and myself took a date day to Chattanooga. Just the two of us. We would meet at a designated spot and leave one of our cars. Drive down, eat in a restaurant without an Invigilator, shop for clothes, etc and then drive back to Knoxville. Basically try to grasp a bit of normalcy in the midst of the crazy.
Funnily enough, we waited until we were married to have sex. Crown seems to think that if you make eye contact unsupervised you are going to be humping in the broom closet within a few seconds. That simply was not the case for us. Even though we were completely alone, we were still adults and able to control ourselves.
Contrary to what you might expect, I graduated and I had very few demerits for the whole time I was there. All of my demerits came from dorm duties. In essence, I was a devious little b*st*rd. Still am I guess. 😉 I broke the rules enough to get kicked out several times per semester. I just never saw that I was breaking a commandment of God, just weird rules that man had put in place.
Why,Apathetic or whatever, you sound positively…normal. Good for you (although in a godless accredited university or some such, that bit about moving the staff members’ cars would probably have gotten you in trouble–or at least you would have been warned to knock it off, NOW, and fork over the duplicate keys)!
I was never caught. I pulled numerous pranks at the expense of the staff. I was never caught on any of them. 😈
BTW I am attending THE godless secular university now! Bwahahahahaha!
What you call a prank is also call grand theft. If you get into a car that does not belong to you and even if you just drive around the block you have commited a crime. And swiping someones car, particularly at night is a good way to get shot in the South. You are lucky that you did not get arrested and pull prison time. I would not look back fondly at a inmature action such as this.
I think someone needs to find a sense of humor.
Immature? Maybe. Grand theft? Get real.
Hmmmmm. If you are the Chad Williams that I knew while I was at Crown you seem every bit as fun-loving as you did back then.
I hope you, at some point in your life, learn to relax and laugh at long past events. Of course, I am just going off of your comments today. You may be a real hoot in real life.
As far as committing a crime and getting shot? Nah. I never moved cars off the property. Never at night either. Usually during Sunday School. Usually just turned them around in the same parking space. Sometimes I would move them to a different space in the same lot.
Immature? Sure.
Should I have done it? Absolutely not.
Would I do it now? Under no circumstances.
Would I be P.Oed if someone did it to me? Absolutely.
The point is, it happened over a decade ago and there is little to do now but laugh about it.
I have had a very good snicker at many of the comments this morning. I think recovered fundies must have a deeper level of humor after coming through the higher living pressure cooker.
OTOH this list is such a sad commentary on how these colleges/churches strip people of their dignity. I just keep shaking my head at the assumptions they make that professing christian young adults cannot govern themsleves. Obviously the the living God and the Holy Spirit need their human help. 👿
“Strip people of their dignity” – oh, yes! That’s well put and it’s how I felt. I was often embarrassed to be treated the way I was at BJU. (One I hated was having the hall monitor say “Good night” to us when she checked to see if lights were out at 11:00 p.m. I’m sure it was meant to be friendly, but I felt that it infantalized us.)
I have so much I want to say on this topic, but a lot of it was already said. It is amazing that ANYONE finds a person to date in this environment, but that they could stay together all the way until the end of the year (or the next year) so they can get married is just a miracle in itself.
I met my husband when I first got to college and we (I guess you would call it dated) for almost three years before we were allowed to get married. He offered several times to just run away and get married and come back as married students, but I was afraid of what might happen if we broke the rules. As a result, we had a very torturous engagement period, and our marriage ultimately suffered greatly because of it. I am amazed whenever I meet people who met in fundy college and got married if they are still married to the person after they got out. There is just NO WAY to get to know a person in this environment and yet the pressure to get married when you are in college “Because you will never find a person of this quality outside of this college” is great. I knew a girl who married a guy on her bus route and as soon as they were back after the break she had divorced him and left him. It was quite a scandal. She found out that he preferred to look at magazines and do “his own thing*” than going to bed at bedtime. That was probably something she ought to have known before she bought the dress, but no way of ever knowing it if they were never alone and never had an opportunity to get into that kind of a conversation.
*you know what I mean… 😉
I’ve always wondered what would happen at one of the colleges with the the No Physical Contact rules if a young woman stumbled and seriously hurt herself but the only people around her were young men. Would the school administration hand out demerits for anyone who stepped forward to help get her to medical attention?
Actually, when I was at HAC, before I met my husband, I slipped on the ice and all that was around were male campus security personell. I had to sit there on the frozen ground while one of them went and found some girls to help me up. (SHEESH!) Also, there was (at that time) a rule for married couples when on campus to not engage an any displays of affection because the security guards wouldn’t know they were married, and might think they needed to break it up and supposedly it was considered “inappropriate.” So even when married, when on campus if I slipped on the ice (I did that alot, it was my first experience with walking on the horrible stuff) my husband (in theory) couldn’t support me to keep me from falling down. He usually did anyway though. When I was pregnant I fell down some outdoor stairs and after that he was always helped me into the building and out to the car. (But never touched me once inside. After all, those security guards might be confused about why that man is touching that obviously pregnant woman… could she be his WIFE?) Wow… when I remember this stuff I wonder what the heck I was thinking that kept me there long enough to graduate…
I remember our pastor in Michigan talking about this. He and his wife were already married when he received the call to become a pastor. They sold everything and moved to Florida (I’m guessing it was Pensacola he went to, not sure) and they had a rule about not holding hands on campus even if you were married. It sets a bad example for others don’tcha know. They had other stupid rules and he talked about how he had a hard time accepting them but since he was so sure this was where God wanted them, he eventually just gave in to the idiot rules. 😡
I’m usually very wary about comparing the IFB with Islamic fundamentalism, but this sort of thing reminds me of that exactly. Strict Muslim men will not even shake a woman’s hand. How is that different from the security guys who had to find a WOMAN to help up a girl who’d fallen or the men who had to wait for a blanket before moving a girl off the ice? “Unclean! Unclean!”
Instead of being a good testimony to the world, this kind of thing demonstrates nothing but scary weirdness.
Interestingly enough, when I realized that my degree from HAC was not sufficient to allow me to do ANYTHING but teach in a Christian school, I went back to school to learn to become a Massage Therapist (GREAT JOB!) I have touched quite a few people in that line of work. I guess probably I am one of those people Jack Hyles threatened to break in and steal back the diploma of. Too bad Jackie. It’s already burned. 👿
@ Sims: I like that you said you’re a massage therapist, and then said you’ve “touched a lot of people in that line of work.” A funny, unintentional play on words. 😉
So does this inane rule also apply in life-threatening situations? I know my husband has had to touch many a woman in far more personal areas. Once he and his coworkers even had to
(gasp) remove one’s top and bra so that they could administer a shock to jolt her heart back into beating. But I suppose, had they been attending HAC, they’d have had to wait for a woman to do it, all the while, her brain was losing vital cells and quite likely dying …
Once when I was at BJ, I passed out on the gym stadium bleacher stairs. I was only with my two guy friends (one of whom later became my hubby, but that’s another story) and instantly, chaperons appeared out of no where telling the guys that they weren’t allowed to help me. They then required them to go to their dorms (it was around lights out) and leave me there. They called my best friend (who was already in bed) to come help carry me back to my dorm. It was ridiculous and my guy friends were furious. That incident was the beginning of the end for my now husband and I. And also my best friend.
At BJU we were told that a gentleman could and certainly should reach down and help the lady stand up, and no demerits would be given. I actually saw it happen once. All of us standing around gasped in shock.
They’re begging for lawsuits if they tell men not to help a woman in a physical or medical emergency. Even a Pharisee would pull his ox out of a ditch on the Sabbath.
Ahhh… not especially loving the comparison of an ox in a ditch, but I do get your (very Biblical) point. Geesh! It isn’t enough that Seen Enough keeps telling me I am old, but now… seriously? An OX? wow. I still love coming here for some reason.
Uh-oh. Sorry about the ox reference. 😳 I didn’t realize that could be read as a one-to-one correspondence there. I just meant, you know, that rules have to be applied with reason and compassion.
At PCC in the mid-90’s, my sister and her roommate broke down at a shopping center one night. My sister called me and I rushed to help, not stopping even to scan out. Next day I had an invitation to visit with the Dean of Men and the VP of Student Life. Fortunately, they just told me that I was not in any trouble for going to help, but that I should have let my Residence Manager know before I left. I don’t remember how the administration found out about it, but I’ll always remember sweating it all day until my meeting.
You were busted acting normal… 😥
I once watched a good friend of mine fall on the ice at an ice skating rink. The blade on her skate slit her knee open and blood was pouring out onto the ice. All of the hac guys just stood and watched, scared to death to help her. You should have seen the way the “sinners” were looking at all of us weirdo’s. Finally, one of the guys found a blanket. Some of the girls helped her on to the blanket and the guys lifted the blanket and carried her off the ice. One of the most insane things I’ve ever seen. I remember feeling so sorry for her and feeling like a FREAK to be a part of a place where these stupid situations happen, due to the stupidity of these stupid rules/regulations. So stupid.
So HAC teaches that the best Christian witness is for a man NOT to help a young woman who lies helpless and bleeding on the ice?
And people pay to go to this school?
Why??
I went to HAC mid to late 90’s and during ice and snow is the only time couples could touch. It was in the handbook that men should help ladies across ice and snow and help them up if they slip. I don’t know when they changed the rule but I know plenty of students who would pray for it to snow so they could hold onto their boyfriend’s arm.
How on earth do these places get their students?
Do the students know the degrees aren’t accredited beforehand?
Is this handbook a sneak attack after you sign on the dotted line? If not, then why would ANYONE want to be a part of that place?
Former Fundy U students, I call upon your insight. I would really like to know how this happens.
1) Parents send them there so they don’t get “corrupted” by Devil State U,
2) Young man has visions in his head of being a great man o’ god,
3) For all the restrictions, it is an approved way to get away from the parents, or
4) They are going because they want to find a spouse.
These reasons often act together.
You nailed me on all four although the last one never happened to me (thank God!).
In light of the subject matter, I’m thinking that the phrase “you nailed me on all four” could have been better worded. Just sayin . . . 😉
I came out of a very strict homeschool background. So in that sense Crown was like being set free for me. I had never had the freedom that I had there. Which is very sad.
I knew very little about the outside world and how it worked. I was a bit of a hothouse plant if you will. At home I was not allowed to leave the house without a thorough explanation of where I was going on the property. I wasnt allowed to leave our property alone for any reason. For people like me who came out of a ridiculously oppressive atmosphere the ambiance at Crown smelled like the sweet air of freedom.
The only thing I knew about accreditation was that it was a sneaky way our Communist government was plotting to take over IFB churches.
What I am trying to say is, yes Crown treated me like a child but less so than my home life did. Plus I had all of these other homeschool kids to play with at Crown! 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄
I was told that I would never amount to anything as a preacher if I didn’t go to Bible College. Even though I frequently expressed interest in other lines of work as a young person I was given no choice about going to Bible college. I grew up in a very totalitarian household. I was given little choice about the matter. My father “prayed about it” and picked out three Bible Colleges that I would be allowed to attend. I chose Crown because it was the farthest away from my hometown. My parents were severely disappointed that I did not wish to go to the Bible College that was right in our hometown.
In some respects, I am glad for Crown. That is where I began my journey out of Fundystan. 😈
Pretty much what Apathetic said. Fundy U. was comparative freedom, accreditation was an evil government plot, accreditation doesn’t actually matter, and where else is the perfect missionary husband going to find you so that you can fulfil your life’s purpose of becoming the perfect missionary wife?
In my case I was raised in a church that pushed us toward this. It was constantly repeated in so many ways that if you weren’t “Serving the Lord” that your life was a waste, and those who went off and DIDN’T go to Bible college weren’t truly the best of the best, and pounding it in to our heads that we are “Seperated” and “Distinct” and we don’t NEED the WORLD’S accreditation because if they accepted accreditation they would have to let the *homosexuals* come in and teach and we couldn’t have that. We were taught these colleges were the BEST! Better than the oldest Universities (I had been going to a private school and was told all the statistics about how great an education I was already getting.) The only way I can explain it was a network of brainwashing and lies. Then throw in there those hunky men who would come visit the church to sing and VOILA… “Take my money, please, oh I hope I get accepted… Bible College here I come!”
I love reading the tales here about HAC and the other schools… every time, I thank God that I had a far more “normal” upbringing than most people who post here.
I think some of them either don’t know it or don’t care. They’re so sure it will never matter since they are going to be a pastor, youth pastor, Christian school teacher, or missionary and anywhere they go their education or diploma from Fundy U will be accepted. They don’t foresee a day when they may either leave Fundyville and have to get a real job, or have to get a real job of necessity because they can’t be hired anywhere due to a bad economy and churches not being able to hire more staff or some other reason.
It’s sad really what I’m reading of people who spent 4 years at a place like this and now can’t get a job in the real world. 😥
When I read this, I thought it was for a mormom college (not that I’m putting down the mormons or anything).
I never realized how strict a Christian college could be.
And then the interracial dating, that’s new to me.
I had to google “crown college” and find out where they are from. We don’t do crazy mess like that over here in California.
Actually, you do. It’s called West Coast Baptist College.
^^^ Amen and Amen!! And don’t forget Golden State….yikes.
I have to say that “mormoms” (more moms) is just a hysterical typo…
..and it could apply to both the Mormons and fundies, always urging couples to have more children.
Yes, and in the really retro factions of Latter Day Saints, you would actually have more Moms than most people (all your Dad’s other wives).
California definitely has its share of fundy insanity.
My Clown College degree is nearly worthless. I have never bothered to have it framed or hang it on the wall. I have it stuck in a folder in a box somewhere.
I am currently attending a well-regarded secular university. I will definitely be hanging my secular degree up once I graduate!
This whole thing reminds me of this cartoon:
http://onefear.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/non-seq-970522.gif?w=600
For pity’s sake! They’re making their own problems with so many rules.
How glad I am to be done with things like this (PCC grad). Now that I am out of fundamentalism, I look at everything that was put on us as “godly living” and now wonder why I didn’t see right through it from the beginning. Does anyone know why? I was born and raised Fundy. Do you think that is why I just accepted everything blindly?
Fundamentalism isn’t a problem unless you have a problem with fundamentalism. For a majority of people in the “movement” all of these rules and whatnot are part of accepted life.
I do not believe that. I would have to see some sort of statistical poof.
I accepted it. I accepted their explanations as to WHY the rules were thus. Anything that made sense or I didn’t exactly like, I just told myself I was proud to be there and that other people (less wonderful than me) could only WISH to be in such a glorious place, and rules were just a small price to pay. I agreed to the rules before I ever started going to classes, so I think he is a little bit right. (I might also add, I was immature and stupid and maybe just a little insane back then.)
What DT and Sims said.
“Statistical poof,” though a typo, made me giggle. George can be pretty sneaky sometimes. 🙂
Not only is it an accepted part of life (PCC was not any different than the rules I’d grown up with), but you are not to never question authority. Because you never question anything, you become very suspicious of any person or idea that is different than you and what you have been taught. The road out of Fundystan is so long because of the guilt you feel about asking yourself questions. I imagine that many readers, like me, here left quietly, never questioning those things we came to realize were not adding up.
I do not believe the “‘majority” accept it unthinkingly and that it presents no problems. Everyone who has found his way out is poof of that. In fact, some common denominators seem to be at least an average IQ, the stirrings of an independent spirit, the need to know why…. I believe the majority in fundydum, as in other oppressive movements, are unhappy, and thus not accepting. We all know we once accepted it, those of us here, so someone piping up that he once did proves nothing. My point is, Ii believe the misery presents an acceptance problem, and there IS misery.
OK, this is a bit off subject, but since so many of you attended one or another of the these fundy colleges I can’t help but say this. It is so interesting to me that so many parents (including moi) want their children to attend these colleges, yet look at the profs at many of them. I know of one prof at BJ right now (oh and he married the only acceptable lady, 8 years his jr–the pastor’s daughter) who has 3 degrees–NONE of them from an approved Christian college. All are from state run universities. (I know about those, went to one of those before all of the dorms went co-ed.) If you happen by the grace of GOd to bring your child up in the nurture of the Living God, then can’t He possibly protect our kids? If you preach GRACE alone, wow. If we as parents do our homework–and it is WORK!–our kids will do what is right. Seems the destruction rate is the same wherever school they attend. I am just so glad that we have stayed away from HAC! The kool-aid runs deep there!
Fathoms deep. Deeeeeeeeep.
Maria, having three degrees from non-Christian universities is a GOOD thing. The professor in question has been exposed to a lot of content that BJU would not have allowed and (if he’s given the freedom to do so) can present and explain that content with a Christian perspective. The problem is: can he do so? (Ask any BJU music major about jazz. It’s a legitimate form of musical expression, but BJU won’t allow students to be exposed to it. It leaves a HUGE gaping hole in a music major’s education should they be able to get into a graduate program.)
I had a black friend of mine read this, and she was curious as to how many black students there are at Fundy U’s? She grew up in a very religious Christian family, but says she couldn’t imagine there’d be many black IFB’ers because black Christians have traditionally preferred more charismatic worship.
I could only answer for my former church/school, where my sister and I, both half-Hispanic, and maybe 2 other Hispanic families, were the only minorities.
American black IFBers? Yeah, not too many, probably. Though I think it’s being very generous to the IFBers to assume that it’s because the black person would prefer a different style of worship.
But non-US black IFBers? Definitely.
1) White American IFB missionary goes to a non-Caucasian country.
2) Locals of that country buy into the “Jesus plus Western-ism” shtick.
3) Local kid expresses desire to attend same college that missionary did (after all, the goal here is to become like the missionary, not like that Jesus guy)
4) Finances to make this possible are somehow acquired — sometimes by home church(es) sponsoring student (after all, the kid is even MORE saved if he goes to a US IFB college — and then spreads what he “learned” back in his home country)
Wait? Did I just compare fundyism to a communicable disease?
There was one black IFB preacher (Pensacola circle) that came to my church and high-school my junior year. And I noticed that His Holiness (my pastor) could never refer to him without mentioning his race. I was kind of offended, even though it didn’t affect me at all. It was never “He’s a dear man who preaches the Word of God.” Always “He’s a dear black man who preaches the Word of God.” I noticed that during the stage in which I was quickly becoming disillusioned with IFBdom.
The school I grew up in didn’t have any black students at all. I don’t know if they weren’t allowed to come, or if they would have just been made to feel too unwanted. I think there was quite a bit of racism there.
When I went to Hyles Anderson College (LONG time ago) we had two black guys and two black girls. They were only allowed to date each other. Unfortunately none of them seemed to want to date each other and ultimately they just didn’t date at all. They were also treated with great disrespect not only by many of the racist students, but by Jack Hyles himself, who used to call the one big black guy Edi Amin (sp?) and make jokes (During sermons) about hiring him as his body guard. The guy had a great attitude, and seemed like a really genuine good guy, but it was always first that he was black, second that he was a person. Oh, and how GREAT was it of HAC to *let* those black kids attend. We should all admire them for that. /sarc
It was probably a business decision that forced them to integrate at all: after all, money you rip off from black people spends just as well as money you rip off from white people…
While reading, I kept thinking that if someone was organized and formatted some bullets in there, this list could be a lot shorter.
As for the inter-racial rule, once again, at least they had the “guts” to publish it. At HAC, my African-American roommate was secretly called to the VP’s office and was told “the church just is not ready” to see someone like him dating a Latino girl. They could only communicate by text and did get married. The “unwritten rule” and explanation was a (my favorite word) traveshamockery.
Technically, that’s true; but a looooong time ago, when I was in school, administrations were considerably more relaxed about student pranks than they are today. For instance, sneaking all the furniture out of the university president’s office and re-assembling it on the roof didn’t get anyone expelled. Moving someone’s car would have meant trouble, but the sort of trouble that would have led to turning in the keys and swearing a blood oath never to do it again, not criminal charges for a first offense.
I am really regretting bringing that up. I think I would have been hauled into a meeting with the Big Man. He would have yelled at me for about 30 minutes and then loaded me down with demerits.
He was actually known back then for taking a fairly light-hearted view of pranks and such.
One guy at school worked the key-making station at a hardware store. He also had unauthorized keys to absolutely everything on campus. Dr. S not only knew this but joked that he was a “key man on campus” and a “key student” etc.
Sorry, Apathetic. That comment was supposed to be a reply to Chad Williams, about two minutes after he posted; but George and an “unable to establish a database connection” error got to it first. It wasn’t intended to bring a dead issue back to life.
I’ve heard that C. Sexton has a horrible and quick temper. Just wondering if anyone on here had experienced his wrath….
I havecseen public exhibitions of it, none private. Both times, it was directed against an African American, and he humilliated the target. Sexton was bug-eyed, red-faced, and veins bulged. He disgusts me. 👿
Mm-hm. Seen him in action against the sound guy (poor Bobby), and in church, no less. PCS went from florid to livid in zero seconds. At that moment, all my respect for him went out the window, and my paranoia went through the roof.
And now I’m triggering. I think that’s what they call it- lightheaded, shallow breathing… 🙁
What set him off? Did the rant last long?
Something about his levels – your generic church PA system malfunctions. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone so furious about something so inconsequential.
The mask slipped off for about ten minutes. He admonished those recording it to edit the tape so those who listen to it didn’t get the wrong idea.
Looking back, I – holy sh#t, this is harder than it should be – I thought, (what a complete monster). I know I shouldn’t have thought it, but I did.
I heard from a first time visitor that sat down with some friends, and had the nerve to speak to them while he was talking. He went off on them! Said that the church they came from might allow chaos in the meeting, but not at Temple!
I’m sure that Crown College of Minnesota (www.crown.edu) would appreciate it being pointed out that they are NOT one and the same as “Crown College of the Bible” (www.thecrowncollege.com). 😎
Used to be, when people asked me what college I went to I would kindof mumble and say “hylmmfnderson” and sometimes they would misunderstand me to have said “Anderson College” which apparantly is a very good school. I usually just let them think that was what I said.
I used to say “a school in Florida” and hoped they wouldn’t push it.
“… A small town in France.”
http://www.hulu.com/watch/4187/saturday-night-live-the-coneheads-at-home
I love knowing all the rules I break…
Are they still making an issue about interracial dating? Satanic.
Wow, those are some rules. I went bju for 1 semester, once I got there, I thought WHAT IS THIS PLACE???(and 2 years later just for some more punishment and mental anguish) pcc for 1 year then transferred to an accredited school and finished my degree. At both places, I broke SOOOOO many of their rules it was not even funny. Floor leaders would ask me “are you allowed to do that?”, my response was always “would I do something that was against the rules?”. They would have that stunned look and you could almost see the wheels starting to move in their mind, then turn around and walk away. I found that if you act like you know what you’re doing, you can get away with almost anything. In our room we made homemade hooch, had 2 tv’s, the list goes on and on.
What I found very strange was they did their very best to kick us out, always watching and very suspicious. Then, after I left, for years they sent material and enrolment discounts to come back.
Since leaving the fundy scene, I’m not anxious as I once was, I question everything I hear, have a great job, am closer to God than ever before and I found a WONDERFUL wife (this summer will be out 10th anniversary!!!).
Sometimes though, I still think of those places and wonder, “Have these schools turned out like they were supposed to (or originally intended to?), or have they taken on a life force of their own and are marching towards their own destruction? (re. low enrolment, sex scandals, etc.)”
Yes, your last paragraph nails it. IMO, Jack Hyles only started HAC for self-aggrandizement. “Saving America” made a righteous-sounding cover story, but it was always about Jack Hyles. My guess is that it is pretty much the same for all the other Fundy U’s, though JH does stand alone as a megalomniac…. 🙄
Yeah wow, according to these rules I’ve had a whole lot of boyfriends!
Seriously, this is one of the things that always bothered me about fundyland. It’s assumed (even in less restrictive places) that men and women can’t be just friends. Any mixed gender pair of people who enjoy spending time together must be dating – or if one of them is taken, cheating. There’s no room for men and women to just interact socially.
I actually think this encourages the men to sexualize women far more than society at large does. After all, they’ve spent their whole lives being told that all interactions between men and women are sexual. Of course they’re going to see women as sexual objects, they’ve never been taught there’s another way!
I have a friend who goes to a Presbyterian church where this appears to be so, at least more than I have personally found it in Fundyville. Maybe it’s partly a woman’s attractiveness that brings it out though, if she’s pretty maybe through no fault of her own the men are sexualizing her and she isn’t able to have any male friends. I’ve never had a problem making friends with men and just talking with them without them looking at me in a sexual manner. I’ve told her I guess not being pretty has it’s advantages. I have many male friends who are only friends, I never think of them sexually and they don’t give me the impression they’re thinking that way of me.
I have heard it said that there is always something sexual going on with any man and any woman but that’s totally ridiculous. If that were true it wouldn’t matter how old or young the person was. Surely these guys aren’t looking at the elderly women in the church the same way? Or those old enough to be their mothers? I sure hope they’re not. It’s unfortunate they’re not taught to see women as fellow human beings first and possible wives second. 😥
Actually, the problems I had were not with the men so much as the other women! Having too many male friends and spending time alone with guys meant I got a reputation as a “tease.” Was even worse for my poor parents – they both have lots of opposite sex friends, and there’s been several times when someone has whispered to one about the other’s “behavior”. They were quite shocked when neither of my parents seemed bothered at all by it!
What you might not guess is that Crown (I only attended for a year, a year and a half ago) and BJU (I currently attend) are both sub-cultures seeped in sexual pressure. For those who have eyes to see it, sex is in the air at BJU.
We need to think through a truly Christian way to express our sexuality in holiness, because the fundamentalist way of repression simply doesn’t work.
Wow! I always thought I didn’t date until after college, but it turns out (according to that first sentence) that I dated a LOT! (And, judging by the rest of the rules, I was quite the floozy… 😈 )
You’re probably dating just by posting a comment here where boys can see it.
… So, was it good for you, too?
You’re quite the conversationalist, Big G. 😉
So the first rule pretty much makes it impossible for men and women to be friends at all. Unbelievable.
Yes. Fundies do not believe males and females can be good friends without there being an uncontrollable desire to run off and have sex the minute they are left alone.
Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit, no?
I have a question – how do these sorts of dating regulations function for gay couples? They seem so fixated on preventing any sort of different-sex contact that it seems like a gay relationship would be easier to get away with! Does anyone who went to a Fundy U have an answer?
When I went to Fundy U there was no such thing as gay people. I didn’t even know that such a thing existed. (I guess I was pretty sheltered, but also it was a long time ago.)
I remember being on the bus on the ride back to the church after dropping off the kids and looking out the window and seeing two men walking along Lakeshore Drive holding hands. I sort of freaked out and said (to my bus partner) “Did you SEE THAT???” She evidently already knew about gay-ness because it was no biggie to her. Everyone else acted as if they didn’t see it. I don’t think we had any gay people when I was there, but if we did I wouldn’t have known it. (I did hear about a “gay men’s dorm” after I left though, but I think that was just a joke.)
What is the point of having a half-hour earlier bedtime on Sunday??
not that that is the weirdest part of this list
also, what?
“Students may not go through the serving line more
than once during a meal time unless specific permission is given by the dining service administration.
Students may only visit the soup/salad bar and the
beverage station once per meal time.”
They’re just like poor little Oliver Twist!
“Please, sir, I want some more.” 😐
The only thing I could think of is so you would be more well-rested for class the next day. Which is obviously still silly.
Bravo and kudos to Crown for not being deceitful and hiding there psychotic behavior from potential students. If you are going to be crazy then do it in the light.
Cushla Macree! That has to be the single biggest pile of manure I’ve read in a while. At least they’re honest enough to put it out there so the kids actually have a clue about what they’re getting into. That said, If I’d read that as a high school senior, there is NO FREAKIN’ WAY I’d set foot on that campus. 👿