(as seen on the Mt. Zion Baptist Camp Facebook page)
121 thoughts on “Camp Games”
First?
mazel tov 🙂
More seriously…aren’t they the ones who say avoid the appearance of evil. I’m very confused 🙄
My question is, would they allow a boy and a girl to play this game together? If not, then why two boys? (or, I assume, two girls?)
(Now I’m going to wait for some fundy type to accuse me of being evil-minded for even thinking that this looks like what it obviously looks like.)
I don’t think they would allow two girls to play this game. Girls are already so sexualized there, the occasion would surely be blamed by some of the boys/men in that environment for their “lust.” I’d guess. Also, it seems like they’d think it was unseemly for women to eat without “manners.”
Girls are already so sexualized there, the occasion would surely be blamed by some of the boys/men in that environment for their “lust.”
That’s what FGM, the burqa, and honor killings are for.
LOL! EW!!! What is the object of this game exactly?? Is this like a practice session on how to make out for Fundie guys?
I’m not exactly sure. It looks like they’re trying to lick peanut butter off opposite sites of a piece of glass or plastic.
I’ve actually witnessed this game being played. The object is to be the first to lick your side of the plexiglass clean.
Funny that you post this – I just saw pictures from this year’s edition of my old church camp. Apparently, 12 year old boys licking peanut butter off each others toes is also cool. :::gets skeezed out::: 😮
Oh, no. no, no, no, no. I did not just read that.
That doesn’t sound healthy, does it.
I can see where that would lead to a good old fashioned foot washing lesson. but shrimpin’ at church? 😯
Sounds to me like a youth pastor has a fetish of some sort…ick. 😯
Is it any wonder I lost my virginity at Camp Joy in Wisconsin.
So sick. I’m scarred for the rest of the day.
I don’t think brain bleach is going to do it. I need brain napalm.
Pass it over this way when you’re done. Gaaaaakkkk.
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.
Maybe not a report from fundy-land, but I recall my son recounting how they had kids in the seeker church we then attended eating chocolate out of diapers
except for that one…. 😯
Lol, the chocolate out of the nappies was something the youth group I used to go to did! Something about eating the chocolate – without knowing for sure it even was chocolate – and then guessing what type it was. Was disgusting!!
And yep – it was a fundy church!
Were these cloth diapers or disposable? I would really worry about the chemicals in the disposable ones 🙄
The game I saw (actually was kinda forced into participating in) was with disposable diapers. The plastic-y kind you’d buy at any shop. Gross! 🙄
Apparently this game is also popular at some Fundy baby showers. I’ve known a few women who have this as part of their games. I guess it makes sense in relation to having a new baby, but it’s so gross and crass!
Ezekiel 4:12
And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight.
Isaiah 36:12
Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?
Ooooooh, so its biblical.
Darn those silly fundies and their proof-texting games!
I was forced to play chocolate in diapers game at a completely non-fundy baby shower once. 🙄
Um yeah, here too. I declined.
Ew.
They started off as 12 individuals but by the end of this game went home as 6 couples. :cue Tina Turner’s, “What Love Got to do with it”:
EWWWW!!! 😯
We’re not in Jr. High anymore, right? 🙄
In other news, your boss sees this picture and thinks it would be a great team building exercise at the next company retreat.
Lol. I wish that I could say “fat chance” LauraT but….that depends. If you’re branch manager is Michael Scott then yeah, this could happen!! 😕
Nice. Should read “your” branch manager. Thanks George.
Not a fundy camp, but I was a counselor at a “boot camp” style Christian camp and the drill seargents made two 12 year old boys eat licorice together. One on each end till they met in the middle. Still grosses me out. Poor boys.
The pastor probably posts the pics on his kiddy porn site! This is beyond deplorable! Grrrrrrt 👿
My daughter’s boss commented a few weeks ago-you know it’s gonna be a wild story when Sarah starts out with-“this one time at church camp …”
Ew is all I can say too. Just ew. I hope whoever came up with that game feels as dirty as I do just seeing a pic.
We played a game where kids ate oreos stuck to plexi with peanut butter, but the plexi faced the parents – not the other team! Ewww. That just looks terrible; why would that be funny? Like I always hated passing the orange under the chin or the Lifesavers on toothpicks. I don’t understand why adults think it’s funny to put children in uncomfortable situations.
The one guy’s eyes are closed. blech
Darrell, are you punishing us? Have we, your loyal SFL followers been so bad that you had to make us see this? 🙁
I’m thinking this was leftover from the sex week 😆
😯 And now I feel even more justified for not allowing my kids to attend church camp… 😯
Exactly, UsedtoBeFundy. Me too. My children did not go to the local Wilds camp and I had a lot of “hell” to pay for it too. But there was no way was I going to pay money I didn’t really have for them to be abused like this and the many other abuses they would have been forced to suffer every hour of every day the entire time they were there.
I went to church camp a few times when I was a kid… although they didn’t pull stuff like this. Of course, they weren’t IFB…
Well, you know what they say. “If it exists, there’s porn of it.”
I was kinda hoping Rules 34 and 35 didn’t apply to Fundyism. Nothing is sacred, I guess.
i live my life by rule 34
How exactly? … Checking to make sure it’s followed? Enforcing it?
That is why churches have so much problems with “being” Gay. If I’ve never “done” a homosexual act am I still gay? So you have these churches who deny the “one in twenty” or even “one in ten” statistics. Of course none or our children or teenagers can be gay, since they are not even sexually active… The suicide attempts could not possibly be about “being” anything, since they have not “done” any of those things.
Churches aren’t the only entities that question that statistic. One of my secular university textbooks (I think in was Psychology) had a section titled something like 10% myths and one of them was the population percentage of homosexuals. Cited a study which indicates the numbers are more likely to be something like 2% of males and 4% of females (that’s at least close to the 1 in 20).
Another one was the ‘we only use 10% of our brain’. It was an interesting section because I had heard/accepted most of the statistics that they were telling me weren’t true.
Right. So make it 5% That is 5% of your (and my) family, 5% of our churches, our neighborhoods, our Christian schools and colleges.
We are so preocupied with “doing” or “Not doing” that we totally ignore who we are.
The “1 in 10” figure comes from Kinsey’s studies, which were done back in the 1940s.
The problem with updating it is nobody seems to have a better figure (better in the sense of being more likely to be accurate).
It would be very hard to get any good data by taking a poll or similar methods. There’s still enough social sanction against homosexuality that many people lie about it (even to themselves, in many cases).
I know that in my social and professional circles, there are many, many gay and lesbian adults. But I have no idea what percentage of the population they represent.
The problem with Kinsey’s statistics is that they were not gathered from a truly random sample. Kinsey went where he could get people to talk about sex … nightclubs, gay bars, etc. However, this doesn’t provide an accurate cross-section. (Surprise – gay bars have a large number of people who identify as gay.)
Gathering an accurate percentage is tricky, though. If you’re a bisexual man living with a woman, does that make you gay? If you’re a woman who had a girlfriend briefly in college, does that make you a lesbian? This is where I think the Kinsey scale comes in very handy.
The study cited in my Psych book used a random sampling of people who answered a survey anonymously as I recall. I have to see if I can find the textbook to refresh my memory. I think it also discussed the reasoning of the study with regards to getting accurate information on a sensitive subject.
Originally Kinsey said 1 in 10 had some predisposition to homosexuality at some point in thier lives. He rated people 1-6. 1 being exclusively heterosexual and 6 being exclusively homosexual(let’s hear it for the 6’s).
I agree that denial doesn’t make something go away or never exist in the first place. One of the problems is that denial is easier than having to come up with a proper response. I think its the same mentality that leads to covering up sexual abuse. I think this is a fundamental (not just fundy) tendency in many people. Some people would rather just ignore somthing than put themselves in a position that makes them have to deal with something uncomfortable.
What about those Christians who feel homosexual impulses yet, convinced that their religion teaches that homosexual practice is (for lack of a better word atm) ‘sin,’ and therefore refuse to act on the desires they do have, as evidence of faithfulness to their God?
1. Bravo to anyone with the moral strength to live that life! So much easier to go with the ‘liberal’ Christian interpretation that says the early New Testament documents were only speaking out against ‘abusive’ relationships.
2. Do you call them gay?
3. How many churches have you been in that could provide the necessary moral and spiritual support–with no condemnation–for people like that!
@Alex
2: No idea.
3: Sadly, no. The rhetoric of “love the sinner, hate the sin” combines with the idea that it’s sinful to have feelings for members of the same sex even without acting on any of those feelings to produce an environment that would be painful for such individuals.
See, here’s the thing. Based on 1Cor6, we suspect the pianist of being gay, simply for being “delicate.” But since we have no proof of him “doing” gay acts, we will simply keep our children away from him, not let him teach Sunday School to kids, essentially condemning him to second class citizenship in our church simply because of a (natural) lack of testosterone.
So what do our other children in church who are kidded unmercifully for not being “manly” have to look forward to?
“See, here’s the thing. Based on 1Cor6, we suspect the pianist of being gay, simply for being “delicate.” But since we have no proof of him “doing” gay acts, we will simply keep our children away from him, not let him teach Sunday School to kids, essentially condemning him to second class citizenship in our church simply because of a (natural) lack of testosterone.
So what do our other children in church who are kidded unmercifully for not being “manly” have to look forward to?”
This is really sick. GAY DOES NOT EQUAL PEDOPHILE! Good grief. I hope he wises up and gets the heck out of your church.
Volleytx, I think Ricardo is pointing out how damaging it is to force people into gendered boxes, not talking about his own church (if he has one). He’s just outlining the fundy thought process and then implying that being a second-class citizen and kidded unmercifully aren’t good things to have happen to you. (If I read that right.)
Volleytx,
You are absolutely right: Gay has nothing to do with Pedophilia.
So the congregation has no real reason to deny the pianist’s offer to serve as chaperone on the weekly trek of the youth group to the roller skating rink.
This is the doble-standard of “being” versus “doing.” We ARE sinners. What we actually do is none of your business. But as soon as churches set any standard that says you cannot be in fellowship with us unless you specifically repent of this or that sin, then we are going deep into a rabbit hole. Rom3:23 all (who are not IFB already) have sinned.
The worst 2 years of my life were 13 and 15. I was sure I could pray away the gay and then God would love me.
My “two years” were my senior year of high school/freshman year of college. Talk about rough. 🙁 I had resigned myself to never being with anyone. But while I wasn’t able to “pray away the gay,” (great phrase there. 😉 ) God did eventually introduce me to the one and only man I’ve ever loved. We just had our 3rd wedding anniversary. 🙂 I believe that if anything were to happen to him, I’d spend the rest of my life alone, but God has been gracious to me, even though it hasn’t always been apparent. 😀
Disgusting, though I must unfortunately admit this looks like a game they would play at my fundy church’s camp. A very bad idea indeed.
ROFL! That picture is great. And, yeah right, not at all gay. 🙄
I guess this is what I missed since my parents couldn’t afford to send me to campfundy.
Hey Non-Fundy Pastor! Are you my son? Ha ha! Actually I know you are not. Unfortunately my son is still fundy.
Apparently this little game is OK because it somewhat simulates gay french kissing, which of course is gross and disgusting and hence can be held up to ridicule. Hetero french kissing is another story — THAT would be just plain SINFUL. Gays are just one step up from being animals, but decent, Christ-honoring IFB teenagers never french kiss . . . do they?
In all seriousness, I wonder sometimes if even some particularly uptight married couples don’t french kiss. 😯
Fundy Camp (like the WILDS) is one of the worst experiences you can subject your child to.
I knew exactly what this picture was portraying because of the WILDS. I was a waitress cleaning a window pane in the dining hall when one of the team leaders (you know, one of the super spiritual giants there) walked over and said, “You know what’s a hilarious game to play?” and then proceeded to describe this game to me. I was disgusted and told him so. He knew exactly what it was representing and thought that it was funny–and intimated that I was being prudish for not liking it.
What kind of twisted mind games . . . ach. Not even worth it.
This looks like something you would see portrayed at one of those end of days nightclubs in a movie. 😯
I have a feeling these youth counselors go on to be guards at Abu Ghraib. 😥
One thing is for sure, whoever made up that game is indeed gay. The game leader needs to be punched in the face. That picture makes me mad! I bet if the kids did not participate they got in trouble too, never never never…
Needs to be punched in the face? For being gay? … Please clarify.
Should be told that game is not appropriate, absolutely. It probably pressures kids into doing things that they’re uncomfortable with (besides being gross to eat that much peanut butter and of questionable hygiene anyway), and could definitely hurt gay kids if there were people making fun of it looking like men kissing.
I assume they meant he or she “needs to be punched in the face” for forcing other innocent people to commit degrading acts in order to fulfill his or her own repressed fetishes. Atleast, that’s how I read it. I unfortunately can’t read minds though so I dunno if that’s what they meant.
I just want to point out that absolutely no self-respecting gay person would lick peanut butter off a plexiglass pane. To call that game gay is an insult to gays. 😉
Ok, I will give you that…but two dudes making out to opposite sides of a pane of plexiglass?? Thats gay in my book, BTW love the peace sign…many fundies would have a huge issue with it but that’s a whole thread on its own. (if it has not already been done) But for me, I love peace!
Licking a piece of plexiglass does not determine your sexuality. I see what you’re saying, but doing something that looks like what a person of a certain sexuality would do, does not align you with that sexuality.
“Ok, I will give you that…but two dudes making out to opposite sides of a pane of plexiglass?? Thats gay in my book”
No, it’s not. This “game” was the idea of someone who wants to make it look gay for the purpose of ridiculing gay people. “Ewwwww, gross! That’s disgusting!” etc,etc If it were truly gay, there would be no pane of plexiglass. Or that much food in the way. This type of thing is like preachers who mock gays from the pulpit, using effeminate stereotypes to make some point. We are an easy target. No matter that there may be gay people in the audience or at the camp who may be very damaged by this nonsense. At the least, for those of us who grew up in this kind of environment and were trying to “get the victory” over being gay, we knew that there would be no help from these people or this system. Thankfully, many of us finally figured out that being gay isn’t a problem for us, but there are so many more that may be driven to unimaginable lengths by this kind of abuse. And yes, I think it’s abuse.
I don’t see one positive thing to be gained by this game. Is ridicule supposed to be funny. It’s possible that there were gay fundy kids watching this. How does this help anyone? Looks like it just makes everyone uncomfortable at least.
I’ve got to avoid SFL today – I just CAN’T look at that picture more than once.
That’s so awful. D, I think I’m actually angry at you for posting this picture!
I want to say: I think it’s weird that they chose to do this game (given its implication and their beliefs). Gross that they’re licking peanut butter off a window. Hilarious that they don’t recognize homoeroticism in men for what it is.
BUT: a picture of two men kissing would be great. It would not make me grossed out, or angry, or shocked. It’d just be a picture of a couple kissing, which is totally fine with me.
Um, wow. Yeah, in their rush to protect boys and girls from ever interacting with each other, they push a lot of same-sex activities, often inadvertently promoting the very “appearance of evil” they were trying to avoid.
I always thought youth group games were stupid. They seemed so middle-school-boyish…and then they expected us to play them in FundyU collegians. Really?? Maybe that’s why I always hated collegians…
This reminded me about something a friend of mine recently told me. She is an Mixed Martial Arts promoter and works for an MMA website and magazine. She told me that the two biggest subcultures that are into MMA are homosexual men and fundamentalist Christians. Their marketing department has done several studies, and have decided that those are the two subcultures that spend the most on MMA pay-per-view and magazines. Both groups were also surveyed and gave shockingly similar answers to why they love it so much, they said it was the “raw athleticism of two men at their physical peak.” I do know that (fundie-lite) Mark Driscoll is a big fan, I wonder if any leaders others have come out for MMA?
Are you sure gay men aren’t also participants in MMA? 😉 Watching them practice, there’s definitely a strong undercurrent of homoeroticism, at times. Add a dash of S&M…
Reread the post, Naomi. Homosexual men are mentioned.
Reread my comment, AmazedByGrace. (Pastormike was talking about spectators’ money.) 😉
Ah, okay I see the point you are making, Naomi. Sorry.
It’s my bad. I could have been more clear (italicizing participants)–emphasis is hard to hear in text. 😉
Now I wonder if taking up muay thai and boxing was a subconscious fundy thing. MMA isn’t all that popular in my church as far as I know, and I got quite a few raised eyebrows when people heard I had started it. Then again, I’m a girl.
I don’t actually enjoy watching MMA that much, except to observe their technique. I do enjoy practicing MMA as I think it really is an excellent work-out and teaches me a lot in self-defense.
Probably not, right? After all, your reasons for doing MMA were about being and feeling awesome, not so much sexualizing* and glorifying male violence.
* But not really, fundy-dudes! We know you just love it for the sport. The sport with the hot, sweaty, tattooed, muscular, broken-nosed, brain-damaged fighting men.** 😆
** Which, really, fundy-dudes, is totally OK. And it’s OK to be honest about liking to watch attractive bodies (if you find them attractive). It doesn’t even mean you would want to have sex with them (but if you did–also OK). 😉
After seeing this, I just remembered needing to pick up some of my own brain bleach.
One thing though, this could be the perfect “tract” for those pushing to do away with the concept of specialized “youth ministries”.
“One thing though, this could be the perfect “tract” for those pushing to do away with the concept of specialized “youth ministries”.”
The fact this youth pastor perv is unable to be prosecuted due to statute of limitations makes me so angry. Betcha he is still a youth pastor too!
I’m curious if this case could be taken to the federal level as child porn. I doubt the statute of limitations has run out on that. That being said, I hope that this guy is out of a job and that any future employer will do a background check and NEVER let this man near kids again ❗
I’m really tempted to “like” that page just so I can comment on the homo-eroticism of the picture…
LOL! Exactly what went through my mind when I saw the link! 😆
You people really need to lighten up. Some of you are ok with putting a picture of an aborted baby on a posterboard outside an abortion clinic…. but THIS picture is disgusting you beyond all limits? Seriously now….. REALITY CHECK!
Good point Volleytx.
What makes you think some of us are okay with putting an aborted baby on a posterboard? I’m not okay with it, and I doubt many of us are.
OK first of it is NOT gross for two men to kiss. Happens all the time.
Second: 10% or 2% it does not matter. What matters is that people are using the name of the living God to marginalize a group of people and that needs to stop. Now.
Third: You people need to lighten up. It peanut butter – its kids, its fun and silly and they are probably not putting as much thought into it as you all are. Sheesh! 😯
Actually, when fundies rail so hard against homosexuality, then create a game in which part of the challenge is putting your face against a piece of glass with another person of the same gender on the other side, all while licking peanut butter as frantically as possible, then saying there is nothing homoerotic about it is highly disengenous. The whole point is that it is awkward, which makes it more challenging. But again, disengenous to say that the “humor” for the spectators and participants lacks any homoerotic element.
I went to a fundy camp back in the 70s. Don’t remember anything like this. Just one question. Do they have women playing this game also or would that be too erotic?
There is NO humor in any of this. I vote this as the most sickening post I have ever seen. I need to go throw up!!
👿
So, no one will answer my question about 2 girls.
I do not think many fundy youth pastors would have a problem subjecting young ladies to these sorts of games. Humiliation is just one method they use to gain obedience.
Step out of line and you (or your whole cabin) will be publicly called out. 👿
That would indeed be disturbing: 2 girls, 1 plexiglass. 😯
nauseating. I remember at The Wilds in the 80s there was this stupid skit about two guys and a banana. That’s it, just two guys…..and a banana. And it went on….and on…..and on….
We played something similar in my room at bju. The four of us roomies and one honorary roomie stood in a line the first person took a credit card and sucked it on to their lips. The point was to pass it to the next person without dropping the credit card. If you did, your lips were so close you automatically kissed. I don’t think any of us made it without dropping the CC. There was a lot of shrieking and laughing going on. Thank God our hall leader didn’t walk in on us. We would have been toast.
This kind of thing is proof positive that fundamentalism does absolutely nothing to build actual discernment in it’s followers. The remarkable level of ignorance displayed by so much of what is done by fundies is amazing to behold. They find evil in every little thing then they completely miss how inappropriate and disgusting something like this is.
Fundies prefer the type of humor where someone is being insulted or humiliated.
And I thought Piggly-Wiggly rounds were bad. 😯
Old post, I know, but I have to comment.
Actually, it makes total sense to me that this game wouldn’t set off a lot of Fundie kids’ “gaydar.” They’d think it was weird and gross, sure, but not necessarily gay. In the Fundie circle where I grew up, none of us really developed “gaydar” because we hardly knew gayness was a thing. Homosexuality was viewed as such an outlier, so far outside the norm, that our preacher wouldn’t have thought of preaching a sermon against it any more than he’d have warned people not to eat light bulbs or wear roller skates on their hands.
We heard lots and lots and LOTS of stern condemnations heterosexual sex, though — so much so that I grew up thinking opposite-gender contact was the ultimate evil. Ironically, in my corner of Fundiedom, while holding hands with a boy would send a girl to hell, no one would think twice about it if she walked around church doing the same thing with a girl. We’re talking teens here.
🙄
Good information. Lucky me I recently found your blog by chance (stumbleupon).
I have book-marked it for later!
Comments are closed.
A silly blog dedicated to Independent Fundamental Baptists, their standards, their beliefs, and their craziness.
First?
mazel tov 🙂
More seriously…aren’t they the ones who say avoid the appearance of evil. I’m very confused 🙄
My question is, would they allow a boy and a girl to play this game together? If not, then why two boys? (or, I assume, two girls?)
(Now I’m going to wait for some fundy type to accuse me of being evil-minded for even thinking that this looks like what it obviously looks like.)
I don’t think they would allow two girls to play this game. Girls are already so sexualized there, the occasion would surely be blamed by some of the boys/men in that environment for their “lust.” I’d guess. Also, it seems like they’d think it was unseemly for women to eat without “manners.”
Girls are already so sexualized there, the occasion would surely be blamed by some of the boys/men in that environment for their “lust.”
That’s what FGM, the burqa, and honor killings are for.
LOL! EW!!! What is the object of this game exactly?? Is this like a practice session on how to make out for Fundie guys?
I’m not exactly sure. It looks like they’re trying to lick peanut butter off opposite sites of a piece of glass or plastic.
I’ve actually witnessed this game being played. The object is to be the first to lick your side of the plexiglass clean.
Funny that you post this – I just saw pictures from this year’s edition of my old church camp. Apparently, 12 year old boys licking peanut butter off each others toes is also cool. :::gets skeezed out::: 😮
Oh, no. no, no, no, no. I did not just read that.
That doesn’t sound healthy, does it.
I can see where that would lead to a good old fashioned foot washing lesson. but shrimpin’ at church? 😯
Sounds to me like a youth pastor has a fetish of some sort…ick. 😯
Is it any wonder I lost my virginity at Camp Joy in Wisconsin.
So sick. I’m scarred for the rest of the day.
I don’t think brain bleach is going to do it. I need brain napalm.
Pass it over this way when you’re done. Gaaaaakkkk.
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.
Maybe not a report from fundy-land, but I recall my son recounting how they had kids in the seeker church we then attended eating chocolate out of diapers
except for that one…. 😯
Lol, the chocolate out of the nappies was something the youth group I used to go to did! Something about eating the chocolate – without knowing for sure it even was chocolate – and then guessing what type it was. Was disgusting!!
And yep – it was a fundy church!
Were these cloth diapers or disposable? I would really worry about the chemicals in the disposable ones 🙄
The game I saw (actually was kinda forced into participating in) was with disposable diapers. The plastic-y kind you’d buy at any shop. Gross! 🙄
Apparently this game is also popular at some Fundy baby showers. I’ve known a few women who have this as part of their games. I guess it makes sense in relation to having a new baby, but it’s so gross and crass!
Ezekiel 4:12
And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight.
Isaiah 36:12
Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?
Ooooooh, so its biblical.
Darn those silly fundies and their proof-texting games!
I was forced to play chocolate in diapers game at a completely non-fundy baby shower once. 🙄
Um yeah, here too. I declined.
Ew.
They started off as 12 individuals but by the end of this game went home as 6 couples. :cue Tina Turner’s, “What Love Got to do with it”:
EWWWW!!! 😯
We’re not in Jr. High anymore, right? 🙄
In other news, your boss sees this picture and thinks it would be a great team building exercise at the next company retreat.
Lol. I wish that I could say “fat chance” LauraT but….that depends. If you’re branch manager is Michael Scott then yeah, this could happen!! 😕
Nice. Should read “your” branch manager. Thanks George.
Not a fundy camp, but I was a counselor at a “boot camp” style Christian camp and the drill seargents made two 12 year old boys eat licorice together. One on each end till they met in the middle. Still grosses me out. Poor boys.
The pastor probably posts the pics on his kiddy porn site! This is beyond deplorable! Grrrrrrt 👿
My daughter’s boss commented a few weeks ago-you know it’s gonna be a wild story when Sarah starts out with-“this one time at church camp …”
Ew is all I can say too. Just ew. I hope whoever came up with that game feels as dirty as I do just seeing a pic.
We played a game where kids ate oreos stuck to plexi with peanut butter, but the plexi faced the parents – not the other team! Ewww. That just looks terrible; why would that be funny? Like I always hated passing the orange under the chin or the Lifesavers on toothpicks. I don’t understand why adults think it’s funny to put children in uncomfortable situations.
The one guy’s eyes are closed. blech
Darrell, are you punishing us? Have we, your loyal SFL followers been so bad that you had to make us see this? 🙁
I’m thinking this was leftover from the sex week 😆
😯 And now I feel even more justified for not allowing my kids to attend church camp… 😯
Exactly, UsedtoBeFundy. Me too. My children did not go to the local Wilds camp and I had a lot of “hell” to pay for it too. But there was no way was I going to pay money I didn’t really have for them to be abused like this and the many other abuses they would have been forced to suffer every hour of every day the entire time they were there.
I went to church camp a few times when I was a kid… although they didn’t pull stuff like this. Of course, they weren’t IFB…
Well, you know what they say. “If it exists, there’s porn of it.”
I was kinda hoping Rules 34 and 35 didn’t apply to Fundyism. Nothing is sacred, I guess.
i live my life by rule 34
How exactly? … Checking to make sure it’s followed? Enforcing it?
That is why churches have so much problems with “being” Gay. If I’ve never “done” a homosexual act am I still gay? So you have these churches who deny the “one in twenty” or even “one in ten” statistics. Of course none or our children or teenagers can be gay, since they are not even sexually active… The suicide attempts could not possibly be about “being” anything, since they have not “done” any of those things.
Churches aren’t the only entities that question that statistic. One of my secular university textbooks (I think in was Psychology) had a section titled something like 10% myths and one of them was the population percentage of homosexuals. Cited a study which indicates the numbers are more likely to be something like 2% of males and 4% of females (that’s at least close to the 1 in 20).
Another one was the ‘we only use 10% of our brain’. It was an interesting section because I had heard/accepted most of the statistics that they were telling me weren’t true.
Right. So make it 5% That is 5% of your (and my) family, 5% of our churches, our neighborhoods, our Christian schools and colleges.
We are so preocupied with “doing” or “Not doing” that we totally ignore who we are.
The “1 in 10” figure comes from Kinsey’s studies, which were done back in the 1940s.
The problem with updating it is nobody seems to have a better figure (better in the sense of being more likely to be accurate).
It would be very hard to get any good data by taking a poll or similar methods. There’s still enough social sanction against homosexuality that many people lie about it (even to themselves, in many cases).
I know that in my social and professional circles, there are many, many gay and lesbian adults. But I have no idea what percentage of the population they represent.
The problem with Kinsey’s statistics is that they were not gathered from a truly random sample. Kinsey went where he could get people to talk about sex … nightclubs, gay bars, etc. However, this doesn’t provide an accurate cross-section. (Surprise – gay bars have a large number of people who identify as gay.)
Gathering an accurate percentage is tricky, though. If you’re a bisexual man living with a woman, does that make you gay? If you’re a woman who had a girlfriend briefly in college, does that make you a lesbian? This is where I think the Kinsey scale comes in very handy.
The study cited in my Psych book used a random sampling of people who answered a survey anonymously as I recall. I have to see if I can find the textbook to refresh my memory. I think it also discussed the reasoning of the study with regards to getting accurate information on a sensitive subject.
Originally Kinsey said 1 in 10 had some predisposition to homosexuality at some point in thier lives. He rated people 1-6. 1 being exclusively heterosexual and 6 being exclusively homosexual(let’s hear it for the 6’s).
I agree that denial doesn’t make something go away or never exist in the first place. One of the problems is that denial is easier than having to come up with a proper response. I think its the same mentality that leads to covering up sexual abuse. I think this is a fundamental (not just fundy) tendency in many people. Some people would rather just ignore somthing than put themselves in a position that makes them have to deal with something uncomfortable.
What about those Christians who feel homosexual impulses yet, convinced that their religion teaches that homosexual practice is (for lack of a better word atm) ‘sin,’ and therefore refuse to act on the desires they do have, as evidence of faithfulness to their God?
1. Bravo to anyone with the moral strength to live that life! So much easier to go with the ‘liberal’ Christian interpretation that says the early New Testament documents were only speaking out against ‘abusive’ relationships.
2. Do you call them gay?
3. How many churches have you been in that could provide the necessary moral and spiritual support–with no condemnation–for people like that!
@Alex
2: No idea.
3: Sadly, no. The rhetoric of “love the sinner, hate the sin” combines with the idea that it’s sinful to have feelings for members of the same sex even without acting on any of those feelings to produce an environment that would be painful for such individuals.
See, here’s the thing. Based on 1Cor6, we suspect the pianist of being gay, simply for being “delicate.” But since we have no proof of him “doing” gay acts, we will simply keep our children away from him, not let him teach Sunday School to kids, essentially condemning him to second class citizenship in our church simply because of a (natural) lack of testosterone.
So what do our other children in church who are kidded unmercifully for not being “manly” have to look forward to?
“See, here’s the thing. Based on 1Cor6, we suspect the pianist of being gay, simply for being “delicate.” But since we have no proof of him “doing” gay acts, we will simply keep our children away from him, not let him teach Sunday School to kids, essentially condemning him to second class citizenship in our church simply because of a (natural) lack of testosterone.
So what do our other children in church who are kidded unmercifully for not being “manly” have to look forward to?”
This is really sick. GAY DOES NOT EQUAL PEDOPHILE! Good grief. I hope he wises up and gets the heck out of your church.
Volleytx, I think Ricardo is pointing out how damaging it is to force people into gendered boxes, not talking about his own church (if he has one). He’s just outlining the fundy thought process and then implying that being a second-class citizen and kidded unmercifully aren’t good things to have happen to you. (If I read that right.)
Volleytx,
You are absolutely right: Gay has nothing to do with Pedophilia.
So the congregation has no real reason to deny the pianist’s offer to serve as chaperone on the weekly trek of the youth group to the roller skating rink.
This is the doble-standard of “being” versus “doing.” We ARE sinners. What we actually do is none of your business. But as soon as churches set any standard that says you cannot be in fellowship with us unless you specifically repent of this or that sin, then we are going deep into a rabbit hole. Rom3:23 all (who are not IFB already) have sinned.
The worst 2 years of my life were 13 and 15. I was sure I could pray away the gay and then God would love me.
My “two years” were my senior year of high school/freshman year of college. Talk about rough. 🙁 I had resigned myself to never being with anyone. But while I wasn’t able to “pray away the gay,” (great phrase there. 😉 ) God did eventually introduce me to the one and only man I’ve ever loved. We just had our 3rd wedding anniversary. 🙂 I believe that if anything were to happen to him, I’d spend the rest of my life alone, but God has been gracious to me, even though it hasn’t always been apparent. 😀
Disgusting, though I must unfortunately admit this looks like a game they would play at my fundy church’s camp. A very bad idea indeed.
ROFL! That picture is great. And, yeah right, not at all gay. 🙄
I guess this is what I missed since my parents couldn’t afford to send me to campfundy.
Hey Non-Fundy Pastor! Are you my son? Ha ha! Actually I know you are not. Unfortunately my son is still fundy.
Apparently this little game is OK because it somewhat simulates gay french kissing, which of course is gross and disgusting and hence can be held up to ridicule. Hetero french kissing is another story — THAT would be just plain SINFUL. Gays are just one step up from being animals, but decent, Christ-honoring IFB teenagers never french kiss . . . do they?
In all seriousness, I wonder sometimes if even some particularly uptight married couples don’t french kiss. 😯
Fundy Camp (like the WILDS) is one of the worst experiences you can subject your child to.
I knew exactly what this picture was portraying because of the WILDS. I was a waitress cleaning a window pane in the dining hall when one of the team leaders (you know, one of the super spiritual giants there) walked over and said, “You know what’s a hilarious game to play?” and then proceeded to describe this game to me. I was disgusted and told him so. He knew exactly what it was representing and thought that it was funny–and intimated that I was being prudish for not liking it.
What kind of twisted mind games . . . ach. Not even worth it.
This looks like something you would see portrayed at one of those end of days nightclubs in a movie. 😯
I have a feeling these youth counselors go on to be guards at Abu Ghraib. 😥
One thing is for sure, whoever made up that game is indeed gay. The game leader needs to be punched in the face. That picture makes me mad! I bet if the kids did not participate they got in trouble too, never never never…
Needs to be punched in the face? For being gay? … Please clarify.
Should be told that game is not appropriate, absolutely. It probably pressures kids into doing things that they’re uncomfortable with (besides being gross to eat that much peanut butter and of questionable hygiene anyway), and could definitely hurt gay kids if there were people making fun of it looking like men kissing.
I assume they meant he or she “needs to be punched in the face” for forcing other innocent people to commit degrading acts in order to fulfill his or her own repressed fetishes. Atleast, that’s how I read it. I unfortunately can’t read minds though so I dunno if that’s what they meant.
I just want to point out that absolutely no self-respecting gay person would lick peanut butter off a plexiglass pane. To call that game gay is an insult to gays. 😉
Ok, I will give you that…but two dudes making out to opposite sides of a pane of plexiglass?? Thats gay in my book, BTW love the peace sign…many fundies would have a huge issue with it but that’s a whole thread on its own. (if it has not already been done) But for me, I love peace!
Licking a piece of plexiglass does not determine your sexuality. I see what you’re saying, but doing something that looks like what a person of a certain sexuality would do, does not align you with that sexuality.
“Ok, I will give you that…but two dudes making out to opposite sides of a pane of plexiglass?? Thats gay in my book”
No, it’s not. This “game” was the idea of someone who wants to make it look gay for the purpose of ridiculing gay people. “Ewwwww, gross! That’s disgusting!” etc,etc If it were truly gay, there would be no pane of plexiglass. Or that much food in the way. This type of thing is like preachers who mock gays from the pulpit, using effeminate stereotypes to make some point. We are an easy target. No matter that there may be gay people in the audience or at the camp who may be very damaged by this nonsense. At the least, for those of us who grew up in this kind of environment and were trying to “get the victory” over being gay, we knew that there would be no help from these people or this system. Thankfully, many of us finally figured out that being gay isn’t a problem for us, but there are so many more that may be driven to unimaginable lengths by this kind of abuse. And yes, I think it’s abuse.
I don’t see one positive thing to be gained by this game. Is ridicule supposed to be funny. It’s possible that there were gay fundy kids watching this. How does this help anyone? Looks like it just makes everyone uncomfortable at least.
I’ve got to avoid SFL today – I just CAN’T look at that picture more than once.
That’s so awful. D, I think I’m actually angry at you for posting this picture!
I want to say: I think it’s weird that they chose to do this game (given its implication and their beliefs). Gross that they’re licking peanut butter off a window. Hilarious that they don’t recognize homoeroticism in men for what it is.
BUT: a picture of two men kissing would be great. It would not make me grossed out, or angry, or shocked. It’d just be a picture of a couple kissing, which is totally fine with me.
Um, wow. Yeah, in their rush to protect boys and girls from ever interacting with each other, they push a lot of same-sex activities, often inadvertently promoting the very “appearance of evil” they were trying to avoid.
I always thought youth group games were stupid. They seemed so middle-school-boyish…and then they expected us to play them in FundyU collegians. Really?? Maybe that’s why I always hated collegians…
This reminded me about something a friend of mine recently told me. She is an Mixed Martial Arts promoter and works for an MMA website and magazine. She told me that the two biggest subcultures that are into MMA are homosexual men and fundamentalist Christians. Their marketing department has done several studies, and have decided that those are the two subcultures that spend the most on MMA pay-per-view and magazines. Both groups were also surveyed and gave shockingly similar answers to why they love it so much, they said it was the “raw athleticism of two men at their physical peak.” I do know that (fundie-lite) Mark Driscoll is a big fan, I wonder if any leaders others have come out for MMA?
Are you sure gay men aren’t also participants in MMA? 😉 Watching them practice, there’s definitely a strong undercurrent of homoeroticism, at times. Add a dash of S&M…
Reread the post, Naomi. Homosexual men are mentioned.
Reread my comment, AmazedByGrace. (Pastormike was talking about spectators’ money.) 😉
Ah, okay I see the point you are making, Naomi. Sorry.
It’s my bad. I could have been more clear (italicizing participants)–emphasis is hard to hear in text. 😉
Now I wonder if taking up muay thai and boxing was a subconscious fundy thing. MMA isn’t all that popular in my church as far as I know, and I got quite a few raised eyebrows when people heard I had started it. Then again, I’m a girl.
I don’t actually enjoy watching MMA that much, except to observe their technique. I do enjoy practicing MMA as I think it really is an excellent work-out and teaches me a lot in self-defense.
Probably not, right? After all, your reasons for doing MMA were about being and feeling awesome, not so much sexualizing* and glorifying male violence.
* But not really, fundy-dudes! We know you just love it for the sport. The sport with the hot, sweaty, tattooed, muscular, broken-nosed, brain-damaged fighting men.** 😆
** Which, really, fundy-dudes, is totally OK. And it’s OK to be honest about liking to watch attractive bodies (if you find them attractive). It doesn’t even mean you would want to have sex with them (but if you did–also OK). 😉
After seeing this, I just remembered needing to pick up some of my own brain bleach.
One thing though, this could be the perfect “tract” for those pushing to do away with the concept of specialized “youth ministries”.
“One thing though, this could be the perfect “tract” for those pushing to do away with the concept of specialized “youth ministries”.”
Yes, it would!!!
And so does this recent news story:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/pastor-films-honey-soaked-girls-987654
👿 👿 👿
The fact this youth pastor perv is unable to be prosecuted due to statute of limitations makes me so angry. Betcha he is still a youth pastor too!
I’m curious if this case could be taken to the federal level as child porn. I doubt the statute of limitations has run out on that. That being said, I hope that this guy is out of a job and that any future employer will do a background check and NEVER let this man near kids again ❗
I’m really tempted to “like” that page just so I can comment on the homo-eroticism of the picture…
LOL! Exactly what went through my mind when I saw the link! 😆
The best bit about this whole conversation is the British double entendre of the word ‘camp’. Check out definition one here: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=camp
Camp games, indeed!
You people really need to lighten up. Some of you are ok with putting a picture of an aborted baby on a posterboard outside an abortion clinic…. but THIS picture is disgusting you beyond all limits? Seriously now….. REALITY CHECK!
Good point Volleytx.
What makes you think some of us are okay with putting an aborted baby on a posterboard? I’m not okay with it, and I doubt many of us are.
OK first of it is NOT gross for two men to kiss. Happens all the time.
Second: 10% or 2% it does not matter. What matters is that people are using the name of the living God to marginalize a group of people and that needs to stop. Now.
Third: You people need to lighten up. It peanut butter – its kids, its fun and silly and they are probably not putting as much thought into it as you all are. Sheesh! 😯
Actually, when fundies rail so hard against homosexuality, then create a game in which part of the challenge is putting your face against a piece of glass with another person of the same gender on the other side, all while licking peanut butter as frantically as possible, then saying there is nothing homoerotic about it is highly disengenous. The whole point is that it is awkward, which makes it more challenging. But again, disengenous to say that the “humor” for the spectators and participants lacks any homoerotic element.
I went to a fundy camp back in the 70s. Don’t remember anything like this. Just one question. Do they have women playing this game also or would that be too erotic?
There is NO humor in any of this. I vote this as the most sickening post I have ever seen. I need to go throw up!!
👿
So, no one will answer my question about 2 girls.
I do not think many fundy youth pastors would have a problem subjecting young ladies to these sorts of games. Humiliation is just one method they use to gain obedience.
Step out of line and you (or your whole cabin) will be publicly called out. 👿
I did write about that above: http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2011/08/camp-games/comment-page-1/#comment-82461
I think it’s a good point to raise–and very much doubt it would happen.
That would indeed be disturbing: 2 girls, 1 plexiglass. 😯
nauseating. I remember at The Wilds in the 80s there was this stupid skit about two guys and a banana. That’s it, just two guys…..and a banana. And it went on….and on…..and on….
We played something similar in my room at bju. The four of us roomies and one honorary roomie stood in a line the first person took a credit card and sucked it on to their lips. The point was to pass it to the next person without dropping the credit card. If you did, your lips were so close you automatically kissed. I don’t think any of us made it without dropping the CC. There was a lot of shrieking and laughing going on. Thank God our hall leader didn’t walk in on us. We would have been toast.
This kind of thing is proof positive that fundamentalism does absolutely nothing to build actual discernment in it’s followers. The remarkable level of ignorance displayed by so much of what is done by fundies is amazing to behold. They find evil in every little thing then they completely miss how inappropriate and disgusting something like this is.
Fundies prefer the type of humor where someone is being insulted or humiliated.
And I thought Piggly-Wiggly rounds were bad. 😯
Old post, I know, but I have to comment.
Actually, it makes total sense to me that this game wouldn’t set off a lot of Fundie kids’ “gaydar.” They’d think it was weird and gross, sure, but not necessarily gay. In the Fundie circle where I grew up, none of us really developed “gaydar” because we hardly knew gayness was a thing. Homosexuality was viewed as such an outlier, so far outside the norm, that our preacher wouldn’t have thought of preaching a sermon against it any more than he’d have warned people not to eat light bulbs or wear roller skates on their hands.
We heard lots and lots and LOTS of stern condemnations heterosexual sex, though — so much so that I grew up thinking opposite-gender contact was the ultimate evil. Ironically, in my corner of Fundiedom, while holding hands with a boy would send a girl to hell, no one would think twice about it if she walked around church doing the same thing with a girl. We’re talking teens here.
🙄
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