Odds and Ends

Whining

204 Comments

When I featured the Baptist Standard flag a couple weeks back, it evidently caught the attention of one of its fans. Travis Burke, the pastor of Cozaddale Baptist Temple, has written this reply and challenge.

I want to thank the two men that have emailed me to let me know that there is a web site that is scorning and mocking me, Bro. Jeff Allen, our church Cozaddale Baptist Temple, and our flag. I appreciate both of you taking the time to let me know this was going on.

Scriptures tell us that there will always be scoffers. Their comments are nothing less than scoffing. Scoffing tries to tear down and belittle Truth. They do not seek to taught truth, instead out of conviction tear down truth. I would be glad to talk to one of them-any of them should they desire to call me: 513-722-2064. But most will not.

It is scoffing because you will not find one who can take Scripture to ‘disprove,’ rather they will use slander and human reasoning to attack.

So please, give me a call should you desire to debate, otherwise, you may continue to scoff.

Remove from me reproach and contempt; for I have kept thy testimonies. Ps. 119:22

So, there you go. He’s publicly listed his phone number and asked you all to call him. Do with that information what you will.

204 thoughts on “Whining”

    1. Apparently so, edging me out of a double-first for the day by just a fraction. But, congrats!

    2. Yes! Do I get butt cushion number two?

      On topic, I cannot believe this man gave his phone number. He’s right about one thing–I won’t call him. Mostly because I know no amount of logic can pierce through his fundy reasonings. He’s right in his own mind and will be right until the day he dies.

    1. Now I have a phone number to use for all of those sign-up boxes at the mall. Thank you for providing this useful service.

  3. He’s against “human reason” but he wants to “debate”? I think I’ll pass… 🙄

    1. Oh, by the way, if anyone does call him to try to “debate,” consider recording the call. If it’s good, please share it with the rest of us. 😀

  4. “Scriptures tell us that there will always be scoffers.”

    Who knew there was a prophecy in the Bible about SFL? 😆

  5. Every time I hear the word “scoffers” it makes me think of the Hoops and Yoyo video (Hallmark) where they are talking about people who don’t believe in Santa Clause. Hilarious.

    1. “Scoffers! And naysayers!!!” LOL Yes! I’ve almost laughed in church a time or two.

  7. I am curious just exactly what “scripture” he will use to defend his banner. Hmmmm… where did I leave my phone…

  9. I am curious if anyone on here will actually call and take this pastor up on his offer. With all the bombastic personalities on here, this is a “put-up or shut-up” moment. I’m getting the popcorn ready.

  10. I responded to his blog, but he has to approve comments so I doubt it will see the light of day.

  11. Found this gem on their blog…

    “I Am A Baptist Conference
    I would like to invite every one to our church’s conference July 25-28. Last year our theme was “Why I Am A Baptist.” This year’s theme is “I Am A Baptist!” Pastor Greg Albright will be the key speaker along with Pastor James Beller, Bro. Ted Alexander, Dr. Wayne L. Burke and others TBA. This week is sure to be a blessing and challenge to our church and all Baptists!” 😯 😯 😯

    2. ah, so being a Baptist trumps being a Christ follower? Oh, my bad, only Baptist’s are Christ followers!
      One can’t be right with gid unless one is a Baptist. All other so called Christians must be separated from. Besides,”Gid loves us more.” Just ask us, and we’ll tell you.
      Being more separated = more holy? Having your own flag is about as separated as one can git so I guess the rest of us are just SOL. 🙄

  12. He wants to have the debate on his terms so that when he tells the story he’s the winner. If he’s eager to debate, why doesn’t he come to this site and engage in this forum? I’m sure he’ll find the debate civil and thought provoking. And there’ll be a record of it for all to see. That’s tougher to do than to engage in a war of sound bites.

  13. It’s passive-aggressive holier-than-anyone else attacks like his that make me mad. Apparently all criticism is scoffing? And only Godless people scoff? Seriously? Pastors clearly think they are the only ones justified in cutting others down.

    That flag was ridiculous. The artwork was juvenile, the content was not prioritized by importance Scripturally, and the whole idea of separating from people who love God is obnoxious. JESUS said the world would know who HIS followers are by their love. How does this flag show God’s love?

    Maybe someone needs a dictionary to see the difference between scoffing and discerning.

    I hope Travis Burke is reading today’s responses.

  14. Hmmmm.
    1. The guy can’t write a grammatical sentence.
    2. He’s contemptuous of “human reasoning.”
    3. He’s under the delusion that there’s something in the Scriptures that defends his vanity flag.

    You know, he’s right. I’m not going to call him for a debate. Life is too short.

  15. And yet, Mr. Burke, you did not come here to make your statements, you remain in your own blog. You encourage “all of them” to come to you, and yet you don’t approach/address the person/persons who’ve offended you directly.

    Call it scoffing, call it critics, call it whatever you want. It’s our freedom of speech, and we exercise it.

    I firmly believe that you’re reading over here now, so welcome. Hang around a bit and you’ll find many people hurt, abused, and recovering from spiritual abuse. People who have been betrayed, and are recovering using the method of “scoffing” as you call it.

    This is a satirical site making fun of things that we were once involved in. Tongue-in-cheek, if you will.

    But, if you have a real issue with Darrell or one of us, my challenge to you comes from Matthew 18:15.

    Because, putting your issue with us on your blog is no different than what you’re accusing us of.

  16. I’m pretty sure Bro. Burke won’t be in the office today. It’s Friday and it’s the day most churches are closed because they work the first day of the week (Sunday), so their work-week is completed by today. I know our Pastor always looks forward to Friday so that he can cross things off his “Honey Do” list. 🙂

    But the associate pastor will probably be there. They typically have to play catch-up on Fridays because they do so much hospital visitation and bus mechanical work during the week.

    (See? I can type with both hands now! Both casts are off and I’m in physical therapy. But, we don’t like to call it “therapy” because that sounds very New Age. We call it “re-training”.)

        1. Um, helloooo? It’s Friday, Mr. Don! Of course I’m wearing my denim skirt!

      2. Now that’s exactly the kind of joke that my brothers think is HILARIOUS! 🙂 You are so silly, little guy!

      1. “Physical terrorists” is right! Mine actually has a hand-painted “coat of arms” on his wall emblazoned with “Kevin the Terrible”! 😥

  17. I wouldn’t want to give him the opportunity to talk about it. I hope the rest of you would agree.

  20. My “challenge” with the whole flag/standard thing is this: We don’t need no stinkin’ flags!

    We are to be known by our love, not our flag or standard or short hair or lack of TV or refusing to wear pants on women or staying away from amusement parks or … or … or …

    Our Love. LOVE. I know that makes a lot of funnymentalists’ skin crawl … LOVE.

    Jesus taught to love God, love your neighbor. I don’t remember flag-making classes during the Sermon On The Mount.

    1. And that, Pastor Burke, is a Biblical response despite the fact that you claim “you will not find one who can take Scripture to ‘disprove’.”

    2. “Love is the flag that is flown o’re the castle of my heart.” Hmmm… do Baptists sing that song?

  22. Folks, please: Don’t do anything stupid with his phone number. As much as we may disagree, he at least gave us the option to call him directly. I don’t think it would be right to, say, post him number of 4Chan or something like that.

    Seriously; Let’s be Christian about this.

    (My opinion — feel free to disagree)

  23. It’s sad because there were several thoughtful, biblical objections to the flag on that SFL post. But the pastor doesn’t want to interact with that. He just calls it all scoffing and tells people to call HIM. Why doesn’t he come to us?

    Pastors get a bully pulpit from which they can expound their personal pet peeves. But once you introduce the internet, people like us are free to talk back. I guess he doesn’t like that.

    1. I am convinced that IFBers won’t preach the Gospel because they realize that their sheeple would realize the freedoms they have in Christ. And then, everything would change. No more hero worship. They would be staring at the true Masters face instead.

      1. I know that we delight here in bashing all things IFB, but this is too broad of a brush. I have had some very humble IFB pastors over the course of my life, and I’ve met others who seemed to be very humble. Such men do not lift themselves up; they lift up Jesus Christ. Sadly, these good men don’t make the news — it is the bad bunch of which we hear.

  24. So just to make sure I have this right: the Standard Standards Standard standard bearer is calling out the scoffing scoffers who scoffingly scoff?

    1. According to scoffing standards, one should scoff at scoffers only in a standard manner, as depicted on the standards Standard Standard. Scoffing that is not standard is scoffingly standard scoffing.

      Sheesh … who DIDN’T know that?!

        1. Ahh … the old “Reverse scoffing” trick, eh @JSmith?

          Well … I’m wise to your ways.

  25. Or perhaps I should say that the Standard Standards Standard standard bearer is scoffing the standards of the scoffing scoffers who scoffingly scoff.

  26. I am learning that people like this can never be reasoned with. To engage them is like pounding your head against the wall, repeatedly…and hoping your head won’t hurt afterwards.

      1. @I am His beloved: I briefly visited your blog.

        Here’s the “problem”: You write as though God loves you. And you love God. And you rely on Him for His grace when your faith is weak. You rely on His love.

        That, my dear, is your “problem”.

        (Would that everyone had that “problem”)

        1. Yep, that pretty well sums it up. If you love God, and you believe that God loves you, and even loves everybody, then you’re going to offend a lot of people.

        2. Thanks guys…its gotten scary now though. I can’t go into it but its gotten to a level of threats. And the funny thing is because I loved some witches and not loved their sin- THEY ( the witches) are praying for protection for me . Mean hateful crazy fundies are giving me severe grief.( Sounds bizarre but its true…)

        3. It was the Samaritan who had compassion for the injured man– not the priest or the Levite.
          First-century Samaritan = twenty-first century Neopagan witch doesn’t seem too far-fetched to me.

        5. IAHB – I don’t know the details, but if he’s threatening bodily injury or anything like that, I’d suggest calling your local police office.

          You could just call the non-emergency number and tell them what’s going on.

      2. I’m sorry that’s happening, Beloved.
        Don’t forget you can block certain people from e-mail, blogs, phone numbers, and so on.

        1. Oh trust me I’ve blocked his email address and he creates five more.
          Called the police.
          I see someone went on his site and he answered them..lol..his response is exactly the craziness that is being thrown at me. Unbelievable.

      3. neither were any of your descendants that you can name. …from the African American tirade.

        doesn’t decendants mean children? And if he says ancestors then who are all dark skinned Americans descended from Indigenous Australians?

        And that’s a fairly broad statement to “all” African-Americans that they can’t name any of their ancestors who were originally from Africa.

        This guy must be omniscient!

        1. I know for a fact that the Americans I know who are first-generation immigrants from Africa can name some of their African ancestors (including their own parents). As for “descendants,” well, that’s just absurd. Wherever your descendants live, that’s no proof of where you came from.

      4. @IAHB, just read about it on FB. You are in my thoughts and prayers A LOT today. (((Hugs)))

      5. @IAHB. I went to the site and I thought “why does he have a pic of Geraldo Rivera on here”?? But then I realized it was him! 🙂

        Why is he stalking you?

        2. Kate asks about his post..”Is this a joke?”

          Jerry answers…If you have a substantive comment or criticism, I will be only too happy to entertain it. My guess is that I have violated the rules of the PC police to whose drumbeat you march, and you can only paint, smear & insult rather than engage in reasoned intellectual discourse. I am qualified & ready, but I suspect that you do not do well on the battlefield of intellectual candor & honesty. Just a wild guess . . . . .

          😯

      6. I’ll bet he got that Ph.D from the Hollywood Upstairs Seminary and School of Theology.

        1. Yeah, somebody should track down his credentials. As I read his nonsense, he sounds like he’s exaggerating. People who have advanced degrees in theology don’t usually advertise it as much as those who fake them, or are given them without putting in the work.

    2. IAHB, that was my first thought. Been there, tried that, got hypertension from all of the ibuprofen I consumed in the aftermath.

  27. “Scoffing tries to tear down and belittle Truth.”

    What “truth”??

    Your FLAG is “Truth”? With a capital T?

    Oh Lord help me before I sink to his level.

    1. Scoffing tries to tear down and belittle Truth. Yeah, I really don’t want to go to his level either. But it’s so frustrating.

      “They do not seek to taught truth, instead out of conviction tear down truth.” – What a ridiculous overgeneralization here. Most of us desire truth so much we suffered a lot of personal loss when we realized that truth was leading us outside the IFB. “I would be glad to talk to one of them-any of them should they desire to call me: 513-722-2064. But most will not.” – Why should we talk to him when he’s demonstrated that he’s willing to distort and misrepresent what we wrote on SFL? If we can’t trust him to be accurate, what’s the point of talking with him?

      “It is scoffing because you will not find one who can take Scripture to ‘disprove,’” – It’s this sort of accusation that makes us unwilling to interact with him. He’s already made his conclusions without actually talking to us.

      1. Got distracted by little kids and left the pastor’s quote at the beginning of my comment rending my own post slightly incoherant. Alas.

  28. Didn’t Jesus say, “They will know you by your holy appearance and the degree by which you separate yourselves from all appearance of evil. And by the banner you wave to heaven as you hold and occupy the fort till he comes.” (Judging 4:1-2, 1611 King James Embellished version)

  29. I concur with the do not call approach. There is nothing gained by engaging fundy “experts” in discussion. The Bible referenced counter positions are published and documented in books and web sites that are easily accessible by Mr. Allen. He simply refuses the Biblical evidence of alternate positions. He simply scoffs at other Biblical perspectives.

  30. Hey! Look at the bright side: We all got to use the word “scoff” today!!

    Tomorrow’s challenge: Use “concupiscence” in a sentence.

    1. I may not be online tomorrow so I accept the challenge today.

      “I have been struggling with concupiscence of the flesh lately.”

  31. I think you guys are missing the point. We DO scoff. But the point is that many things that people hold reverent and holy deserve to be scoffed at. That emperor? Naked as a jaybird.

    I just hope I can teach my kids to use discernment when someone says, “salute this flag”, “revere this man”, “this, this, THIS right here is the Truth”. I believed too much when I was in fundyland — almost none of it had anything to do with loving each other or feeding the sheep.

  32. I think we just found our Superfundy Superhero! He’s here to set us all straight and get us right with gid.

    I can only imagine the conversation if one of us called and he actually took the call:

    One Of Us: Hello. I’m one of the scoffers at SFL.
    Travis Burke: Hello heathen backslider.
    OOU: I take issue with your man-centered theology
    TB: Random bible verse
    OOU: I do not believe the KJV is the only acceptable bible version
    TB: random bible verse
    OOU: Why are you exalting a flag?
    TB: random bible verse
    Rinse and repeat

      1. This is crude but it is a start!

        _____________________________
        1 1
        1 1
        1 SCOFFERS 1
        1 1
        1 UNITED 1
        1 1
        1____________________________1

        1. Well that didn’t turn out how I thought it would.
          Nothing to see here folks. Move along. 😆

        2. Ha! I SCOFF at your crude attempt.

          “Now go away, or I’ll taunt you a second time!”

      2. We’d all just make fun of it!

        There ARE good reasons to procrastinate; I’ll explain later.

  33. I also noticed that he said, “there is a web site that is scorning and mocking me, Bro. Jeff Allen, our church Cozaddale Baptist Temple, and our flag.” I note that he could not claim that we were mocking God. We were mocking his flag. So what? I guess having a different opinion reduces us immediately to “scoffers.” And THAT is why we have no interest in talking with him.

    1. You KNOW this will be AT LEAST ten minutes of his sermon on Sunday morning … bragging about how he “stood for the faith” and was “being attacked” by “backsliders” (Challenge: FIND a backslider in the New Testament. DO IT. Good luck), yadda yadda.

      He’s loving this. No, really, he is. He LOVES the attention. He’s _somebody_ now. He can brag about this at the camp meetings with all the other self-important MOG.

      The whole scene is sickening. Didn’t somebody once say something about those in “the chief seats of the synagogue”??

      1. AT LEAST ten minutes is an understatement. This will most likely encompass the majority of the Sunday morning sermon.

      2. Have you ever noticed how MOG rhymes with dog? Actually, that is giving the MOG too much credit, because I get more loyalty and trust from my DOG!!!! Just sayin’ 😆

        1. Let me try:

          Brothers and sisters, there are THREE types of people in this world.
          1. scoffers who tear down the truth like those wicked folks on SFL
          2. supporters who tell the truth like my two friends who told me about that website full of scoffers, and
          3. standard-bearers who triumph with the truth. And that is US, my friends, as we wave our Baptist standard high.

        1. “I’ve gotta way to express myself and I don’t need 15 pieces of flair to do it!”

          :mrgreen:

  35. My pet peeve is when someone uses 1769-English to answer people, like it makes them superior spiritually somehow.

    1. Methinks thou hast a haughty spirit for knowest thou not that all truly holy people speak in this manner?

  37. It is scoffing because you will not find one who can take Scripture to ‘disprove,’ rather they will use slander and human reasoning.

    WHY I AM NO LONGER A FUNDAMENTALIST. Don’t for any reason use your God-given logic engine known as a brain to determine truth–quote decontextualized Scripture instead.

    1. My favorite Galileo quote:
      “I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.”

      1. I’m saving that one. I’ve posted this before, but it’s always appropriate when debate with Fundies arises:

        After all, human reason—though fallen—is designed by God. There is nothing wrong with that sword, only with how we wield it. For that sword was forged in heaven . . . . To put the point less poetically: God sent not only a few special prophets like Moses to one special people but also the universal inner prophet of reason and conscience to all people. The medievals loved to say that God wrote two books: nature and scripture. And since he is the author of both books, and since this teacher never contradicts himself, these two books never contradict each other. And since this God who never contradicts himself also gave us the two truth detectors, faith and reason, it follows that faith and reason, properly used, never contradict each other. Therefore, all heresies are contrary to reason. Not all the truths of faith can be proved by reason, but all arguments against the truths of faith can be disproved by reason.
        –Peter Kreeft, Socrates Meets Jesus

        2. Definitely check it out, or any of Kreeft’s Socrates books. This quotation comes from the introduction of that book, which I read my sophomore year at BJU. To say reading that passage changed my life is to risk gross understatement.

        4. One of my favorite things I ever learned at BJU was in our introduction to education class, when Mrs. Shanks taught us the Greek saying, “All truth is God’s truth.” That made a profound impact on me. Truth is truth, no matter where it comes from or who says it, and it is nothing to be afraid of.

        5. You read it at BJU?? Do they know that Kreeft is Catholic?

          This–like almost all the best reading I did at BJ–was extracurricular. 😀

  38. I don’t scoff at Truth. I don’t scoff at God or the things of God-not even in my own heart. However, I do scoff at strutting turkeys that think they are peacocks.

    I am and hopefully always will be skeptical of people who fabricate idols of cloth and proclaim them to be truth.

    1. I think that’s all the reply anyone should grant him. It hits the nail on the head. The arrogance of fundy pastors is astounding and sickening. And then they go preach an entire sermon on how you should be humble and submitting to your pastor is the greatest form of humility (a sermon I have indeed heard, not making that up.) Truly sickening.

  39. It’s just like an IFB pastor to take something he made up and call it Truth, with a capital “T.” Disgusting.

    1. Isn’t that blasphemy? Jesus says that HE is the way, the truth, and the life. Jesus is the Truth capital “t” truth, not some flag.

    1. He put that number up with complete disregard for the poor woman who will be answering any calls that come in. And I can guarantee you he DIDN’T tell her to just put all those calls straight through to him. He will hide behind his underpaid office assistant.

      1. yah, he just wants her to compile the stats about how many scoffers called so he can multiply it for his sermon illustration on Sunday

  41. Don’t you think that Jesus would have had a flag made up if He thought it was any indication of Truth?

    He wouldn’t have had to heal people, minister to those sinners and publicans, or preach all those sermons on mountain tops; He could have just marched all over Israel waving his banner.

    Because everyone knows that’s how the world knows we are separated, holy Christians. 🙄

  44. “So please, give me a call should you desire to debate, otherwise, you may continue to scoff.”

    –Debate what? Your art project? We’re not talking about the virgin birth here.

    You made a flag to show that you’re the most independent Independent Baptist of them all. You are the undisputed King of Baptist Beef. If the Nazarenes don’t know, they better ax somebody! There is no debate. When you step to the mic, you’re like a chainsaw, making Southern Baptists raw. If anybody wants to debate, you just direct their attention to First Burke 1:1, “Thou shalt make unto thy denomination, a red flag, drawn by a child.” That ends any debate right there. It’s obviously a Biblical command, and anyone that thinks it’s funny, obviously hasn’t even read First Burke at all.

    2. “When you step to the mic, you’re like a chainsaw, making Southern Baptists raw.”

      FTWROFLLOLBWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! :mrgreen:

    3. I really want to thank you for the big laugh. I needed it today.

  45. I was all set to call him up and debate him about his flag, and then he went and quoted scripture. I guess that means he wins.

  46. So it is scoffing to ask why the great big Bible and the teeny tiny cross?

  47. That flag is an idol. They worship their denomination. It’s much more important for a fundy to be known as an Independent Baptist than to be known as a Christian.

  48. I love the horrible grammar mixed with the line not to use logic. If there is one reason I’m not in IFB it is because of that. The logic didn’t add up. Without logic the Bible is meaningless. We cannot understand it but by logic. Doctrine, especially systematic is applied logic through our understanding of scripture. He cannot believe anything without logic. Simply put this man is an idiot and not worthy of any of our time. Personally 4chan his phone number and be done with it.

    At least he thinks we do what we do out of conviction. He got that right.

  49. It occurred to me that this is typical fundie BAU. Don’t confront the people who did it, run and tell the preacher. If I had a five-dollar bill for every time I got caught in that kind of triangulation (because the pastor needs to know what’s going on so he can pray about how to address the problem)I could retire next week.

    1. Good point! Why didn’t they respond themselves? Maybe because they’ve been trained to believe that only the Pastor is mighty and wise enough to defend the faith.

      1. It’s very likely that if they didn’t respond on this site it is because they knew that they would be labeled as trolls and ridiculed for disagreeing.

        1. No one is ridiculed for disagreeing. People get hassled or labeled for disagreeing with such an ungracious spirit. We’re not fools. Most of us can usually detect someone’s attitude. Someone who comes to earnestly defend their beliefs but does so with humility is usually met with respect. Someone who overgeneralizes (i.e., “you’re all mockers”), is mean-spirited or condescending, or tries to lecture us (as if we haven’t heard it all before) will be met with a more caustic response from many.

        2. Sorry, PW, I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. I have seen people come on here and be ridiculed because they questioned or disagreed with something being said. It can be a tough crowd. I understand why it happens, since there’s a lot of legitimate anger out there, but it can definitely be intimidating.

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