Music

YACFRAM (Yet Another Crazy Fundy Rant About Music)

304 Comments

This time it’s Brian T Coates – Publishing Director for Anchor Baptist Missions International – who sets us back on the straight and narrow by telling us that if we fix our music then EVERYTHING else in our lives will fix itself.

Update: the owner of the video has now disabled embedding and turned off comments on the video. That smacks of cowardice to me.

304 thoughts on “YACFRAM (Yet Another Crazy Fundy Rant About Music)”

  2. Which Holy Book of Fundy Sermons did he lift this from? “Music that effects your head and your heart, will also effect your home” which hymn helped his family grow? Eww…

    1. OH! And if he has no business telling the older folks in the congregation what is “right” what THE HECK is he doing up there anyway? I could scream.

    2. Blessed Assurance will “get her in the mood” every time… 🙂 It’s a shame Barry White doesn’t sing it…

      1. The last fundy wedding I attended the congregation sang Blessed Assurance. True story.

      2. I would take “Blessed Assurance” over any of the so-called music being put out today. And I mean secualr and Christian music, all of it is fluff. Of course, I could really care less if they ditched all music in church. I am tired of the endless additions of music and how the “worship” part of the service is taking the precedence over the sermon. It makes it hard to argue that the musican pastors are not trying to take over the churches from the pastors.

        1. Personally, I LOVE singing – hymns, Gospel, praise and worship, acappella, etc. I do believe it’s commanded in Scripture and that it enhances the worship service but shouldn’t compete with or replace the preaching.

          I love hymns too, but I find that some of the newer songs allow me to pray directly to God, to speak out words of Scripture, and to meditate on those words. One example is Chris Tomlin’s “Our God Is Greater” based on Bible verses like “If God is for us, who can be against us?” (Rom. 8:31) and “I know the greatness of the LORD–that our Lord is greater than any other god” (Ps. 135:5).

        2. I think it is Church of Christ that doesn’t use instruments. Still sing though.

        3. Chad – Gonna have to disagree with ya on this one. I sincerely believe that there are folks that will never be reached with a sermon but in fact could be reached with a song. I was just reading about King Saul last week, you know when God sent an evil spirit to him, what did they do, did they get the man of God to go to him and bloviate a 4-point sermon to him? Did they have someone read Moses to him? Nope, none of that, they had a talented shepherd boy come in and perform for him. I personally see no reason why the “whole” sermon couldn’t be praise and worship, and you would have a hard time proving from the scriptures otherwise. Music communicates to people as does a good sermon.

          Btw I love the old hymns and I love all sorts of other God-honoring music.

          There’s gonna be awhole lot more singing and praising than preaching in heaven, so you may want to start practicing now. 😀

        5. greg said:

          “…did they get the man of God to go to him and bloviate a 4-point sermon to him?..”

          That is the comment of the day, so far. 😆

        6. I wish the worship would take over so I wouldn’t have to hear some preacher pretend his words were the word of God. 😀

        7. I seem to recall the Scripture saying “… but it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.”

          Not singing.

          Preaching.

        8. “all of it is fluff”

          If you are looking for music that is saturated in Christ centered theology, check out reformed Christian rap.

          Guys like Lecrae, Trip Lee, Shai Linne, and Flame are bringing music that is anything but fluff.

          Personally, I would take gospel-centered music any day over a fundy, man-centered, legalistic, moralistic, unlearned, unorthodox, unprepared, topical sermon.

          Who knows, you may even learn a thing or two these reformed rappers.

        10. but it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.”

          Does that mean that preaching has to be dressed up in a lecture suit? Is preaching the gospel required to be a one way conversation where the preacher lectures, rants, raves, or speaks and then the hearer merely responds to hat they have heard? Where does it say that preaching has to be done one certain way? I have seen much preaching take place around here(in the comments mostly, not so much in the videos) and it is a beautiful thing as I see the give and take and the proclaimation of the Gospel message around here by this community.
          Preaching is not just a 30-45 min lecture three times a week it is the saint of God proclaiming, speaking and engaging others with the gospel wherever they go.

        11. I have to agree with you about most contemporary music being fluff. Maybe I’m just old, but it’s also way over amplified. At least in my church we have excellent preaching that more than makes up for the music not being to my taste.

        12. @ Chad – except music is an integral part of worship, music affects the mind a lot more than a sermon will. How many people can recite lyrics to a song, and how many people can recite the pastor’s sermon from Sunday?

        13. That verse about “preaching” means sharing the gospel, not pretending like what comes out of your mouth as a minister is actually the “word of God”

        14. “If you are looking for music that is saturated in Christ centered theology, check out reformed Christian rap.

          Guys like Lecrae, Trip Lee, Shai Linne, and Flame are bringing music that is anything but fluff.”

          AMEN and AMEN. My daughter loves this and when I expressed skepticism, she suggested I listen. I did and was shocked. More Bible in a single song than most IFB preachers know, much less what they include in their sermons. Not my particular cup of tea, but the music is saturated with Bible and theology.

          And, were it not for artists like Casting Crowns and Tenth Avenue North my path from fundamentalism would have been MUCH slower and tedious. I praise God for the faithfulness of their witness. (And yes, they are preaching the gospel, the true gospel.)

  4. The idea is so silly, I couldn’t bring myself to listen. There are so many more important things that matter more. Sigh. But isn’t that the Fundy way? 🙁

  5. This is why I don’t question my decision to leave a fundy church. I’ve enjoyed not being yelled at the last 10 months and preached at on ridiculous, Biblically unfounded personal opinions.

  6. hehe wow… I feel like doing a holy dance after that one… maybe screaming something different from halelujah…

  7. I thought the Bible says that if we fix our hearts on Jesus, then everything else in our lives will fix itself. Jus’ sayin’.

    Darrell, you have a special place in heaven for finding this stuff and exposing it for the heresey it is.

    1. Amen! It’s JESUS! Preach the Gospel, Brian Coates, not your legalistic traditions.

  8. So at about 5:50 in he condemns music that is “overwhelmingly loud, boisterous and obnoxious”. Funny but I thought that was a pretty accurate description of his preaching.

    1. Sadly, in the fundy world, preachers can yell at the congregation, but Christians aren’t allowed to shout with joy during the song time. This directly contradicts God’s Word which says, “Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise.” Ps. 98:4

      1. Aw, now you’re bringing scripture into it. To his credit, he did throw out a couple scriptures…”threw out” is the key 🙄

  9. I love how he covers up how insufficiently he prepared to deliver this “sermon” by DEMANDING that people say amen and manipulating them to do so by promising to finish up (so they could eat). And what about all the abuse being done by IFB pastors that listen to the “right music”. Get your heart right and your choices will reflect that not the other way around. Sigh.

    1. I also was thinking about the guys in fundy churches who listen to hymns but do evil. When will fundies learn that the evil comes from INSIDE us? It’s not what goes into a man (like music) that defiles him, but what comes out of his heart.

      2. Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.” -Matt 15:10-11

      3. There you go, bringing the BIBLE into this…don’t you know that there is no place for such drivel in fundie land?

    2. Lyle Lovett had something to say about that. “To the Lord let praises be/It’s time for dinner, so let’s go eat!/We got some beans and some good cornbread . . . “

  10. He might find a cold reception in some fundy churches if he brings that new fangled iphone Bible into them. I mean some churches don’t even like CD or taped music and here he is preaching from some Steve Jobs tool of Satan!

    2. Oh, so it was an iPhone bible?
      I couldn’t figure out if he was playing Angry Birds, or trying to get the garage door to open.

    3. I’m pretty sure that was an iPhone, but I don’t think it was the Bible, I think it was either just a note, or some other app he stores his outline on. It didn’t seem to be a bible app, cause he wasn’t reading scripture from it, but looking where in his tirade he was, if memory serves (I’m not watching that travesty again).

  11. I’m a fundie noob (I was only involved for a year and 1/2, thank God) but what is the point of yelling the whole sermon?

    nicodemusatnite.com
    latetatsu.tumblr.com

    1. In my opinion, lack of faith. Instead of teaching from the scriptures and trusting in the Holy Spirit to work in hearts as God’s word is taught, it’s substituted with yelling and screaming.

      2. Keep people listening, and awake hopefully. 🙄 Maybe to keep the preacher awake. 😆

    1. I’m pretty sure that’s a jean skirt. It just looks divided because of the way the kids are sitting.

      1. I was thinking it could be a jean skirt too, but still looks like pants. Uh oh, another white piano situation?

      3. Even so… in my old fundy church, even jean skirts were far from appropriate attire for church.

  14. I watched 4 mins, and he was yelling time filler stuff, and I wasn’t gonna listen to more scatterbrained drivel.

    Very amusing that this clip opens with him yelling “is there yelling going on in your house?”. Maybe those grand old hymns he’s fantasizing about are causing the anger in his own heart that has him screaming in the pulpit?

    1. It looks like an iPhone or i-Touch to me. That looks like a apple logo, and he swipes it to flip the page a couple of times.

    2. He wasn’t preaching from the hand-held device. He was perusing the daily specials on the menu for Golden Corral.

  16. As with just about everything in fundyland, he has this 100% back wards. When Christ comes into your life and changes your heart, your choices, whether music, dress or any other “outward” matter, will reflect that. Change your music and your heart will be right? Seriously? And to take scripture verses and beat them into submission to make them say what you WANT them to say is something to be ashamed of. And here’s his sermon alliteration broken down. 1.Straw men 2. Straw men and 3. Straw men.
    When I look at the family picture all I can do is feel sympathy for those poor kids who will have to grow up in this mess.
    🙄

  17. If you didn’t know better, at first it just seems like a modern young person constantly reading and texting from a phone. A very hip fundy preachin session. But no, just preachin notes, and when your notes are that obvious it is a distraction, an amateur.

    Horrible screamer, no effect when you scream that much, gotta make it worth it by holding back, getting silent, restrain yourself, then go for the kill with the holy scream.

  18. He is definitely the worst I’ve seen given a presentation on music. I had to laugh! The best line, “If you change your music, you change your heart.” What the crap! As if nothing else in our world has an affect on you! I wonder what fundy weed these preachers smoke before getting behind the pulpit.

  20. Fundies concentrate so hard on the externals they really do forget all about their heart. God is more interested in our relationship with him than He is anything else.
    What a warped sense of Christianity. I can’t believe I didn’t see it until I was in my 30’s.

    1. I’ll never forget the moment when Dr. David Jeremiah, speaking at non-fundy Cedarville U, quoted Jesus, speaking to the Pharisees: “You make the law of God of *none effect* by your tradition.” -version unknown but see Matthew 15:6 and Mark 7:9 & 13; emphasis mine.

      I went up to him after and said “I’ve been looking for that verse my whole life and didn’t even know it!” 💡

      In my life…revolutionary.

      1. Connie, One of my favorites. Tradition is the ONLY thing listed in scripture capable of making “the word of God of none effect”. Even unbelief just applies to the unbeliever.

  21. Oh dear Lord almighty, this man is the gift that keeps on giving:
    1. I can text during sermons now?
    2. Overweight preacher boy – check.
    3. Dancing is never connected to our service to the Lord in the Bible (WTF? Really? Has he read the Bible?)
    4. Women are sinfully emotional when hearing certain music (I’d say he was getting his Schaap on right there).
    5. “Y’all can go if you gotta eat…” – Sunday morning, the fundy sacrament. I can prove myself to God and to you by fasting through the eternity of this tool’s sermon.

    2. 4. Women are sinfully emotional when hearing certain music

      You mean I should have been playing certain music in the Perilous Hall of Peril in order for there to be any “real” peril?? Why, didn’t somebody tell me this back then??? 🙄

    3. Apparently this guy has never read the part where David chewed out his wife because she was disgusted about his dancing before the Lord.

    4. Oh MAN! I posted my comments before reading the rest…and plum *forgot* to comment on that. Blocked it out I guess. He wasn’t just saying “sinfully emotional,” he was mocking. Mocking others’ real emotion and sexist-ly at that??? NOT cool, man. Not cool.

  22. I like the new acronym, Darrell. YACFRAB – it’s even easy to say.

      1. Yeah, YACFRAM (pronounced in my head as Yack-fram) is right, although the FRAB sounded obnoxious the way such preaching on music usually is.

    3. You could keep it as YACFRA_ and fill in the last letter depending on whatever the current rant is about.

      1. YACFRAW – about women
        YACFRAWWP – about women wearing pants
        YACFRAFB – about facebook
        YACFRASU – about secular universities

        I could go on all day.

        3. @Jonathan

          [pentecostal]Does someone have the interpretation?[/pentecostal]

          😀

  23. I don’t think we should reduce our comments to belittling or lampooning this guy. The truth, found in God’s Word, directly contradicts what he is saying. Furthermore, we have a full ten minutes without any Bible or exposition of the Bible. This is not Christianity. We shouldn’t take that lightly, no matter how funny the clip is.

    1. I think anyone abusing people for music they might (or probably don’t) listen to should be belittled & lampooned as often as possible.

  24. Really Darrell, couldn’t you have just poked me in the eye with an ice pick instead of making me listen to this drivel-
    I think I would have enjoyed it better.
    Going to go sit in a dark corner, hit my head against a wall and twitch now…

    1. That’s it! ” You have enough NERVE to change the bad music in the car you OWN the title on men?”
      This is the EXACT reason I almost divorced 7 years ago- IFB men were never taught to love but to control, demand and beat their women into “submission”. You FORCE your way men into making her submit- be sure to put all possessions in your name, make sure she never has a job outside the home, be sure she knows WHO is boss. If she denies you you FORCE her biblical obedience on her! You be the MAN.
      After 14 years of marriage and finally leaving the IFB world my husband admitted that he never had a role model of what it was to love your wife and show servant leadership. He is that man today- from dictator and abuser to loving, strong and gentle servant leader. I am blessed- it doesn’t happen often- the detoxing process of weeding out all those lies of how a man should lead and a woman should biblically submit were hard to work through. Its this kind of outright garbage preaching that puts marriages in bondage and abusive situations. 👿

      2. One of the ways Jesus shocked and offended the Fundies of his time was by treating women as equals. Look at the woman at the well, the woman who annointed his feet, or Mary and Martha– he didn’t see them as just “helpmeets,” and the self-righteous people were scandalized.

      3. Glad you didn’t divorce and worked through the problems — was it all on his side? You didn’t have to admit some wrong and make some changes also??

        1. Guilt ridden-A strong healty marriage takes two- it is never on “one side”.
          Sometimes this site triggers some old hurts and my words are typed furiously. I can’t erase my comments here, so I ask for forgiveness for the flash fire they create at times. The point I was making is that often times the IFB uses control and force as an acceptable means as men ruling their homes. Women were taught that they did not have a voice. This perpetuates a crazy and abusive cycle.
          Did I have some serious issues to work on and fix in my part of the marriage? -yes, absolutely.

      1. The Tie Store. Duh! It’s right next to The Pants Store that Ron Burgundy frequents. :mrgreen:

  27. Saddest part of the whole thing to me was when I got done. There were five other “related” videos….. Part 6, Part 4, and Part 1 were there. As was “John Calvin the Tyrant”, which apparently is related. The one that bothered me was “Jesus of Nazareth”. How is that even related. The schmuck never read from the Bible to my recollection. Also when I watch that man preach, I assume Christianity is not legalistic, full of hate and anger, or judgmental. Seems just like Jesus of Nazareth. So sad. 😥

  29. I think if you look up “sh*t-eating grin” in an illustrated dictionary, you’ll find this preacher boy’s picture.

  30. “Is your country, rock, and rap making you hand out gospel tracts at the mall?”

    Don’t be so quick to blame music, Preacher Boy. I assure you that there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that could ever make me do that.

  31. aaargh! God please grant me the ability to reach in to youtube and smack this guy upside the head! Idiots like this just realllly PISS ME OFF!!!!

  32. I won’t even waste my time watching this clip. blech. I sat through my fair share of music “theology” at camp and college. I didn’t buy it then, and I don’t buy it now.

  33. Wow, I just stumbled onto this site a few days ago. I cannot believe the arrogance and nastiness of a lot of these posts from supposed “Christians”! This preacher is correct, you know. Bad music is a heart problem. When people hear beats and drums, they rock out for their bodies physical pleasure, certainly not for Christ’s glorification. When a church begins to backslide away from Jesus and the fundamentals he taught, the very first thing to change is music. Every time.

      2. While I completely disagree with everything that Michelle said, what gives you the right to make such comments about her beliefs?

        1. What gives me the right to be heartbroken over a person who is bound in chains of legalism?

          I guess I would have to say “following Jesus.”

          “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!”

        2. This isn’t B.H. or M.S. is it? I can’t fathom the latter posting that, I might be able to envision the former. Just the way it was written sounded like an emp or prof, but I’m hoping it’s neither.

    3. “they rock out for their bodies physical pleasure” What’s wrong with that? After all, God created our physical bodies, and the pleasures that they feel.

      1. As far as I know, God wants us to feel pleasure. If not, I can’t see how God is love.

    4. “They rock out for their bodies physical pleasure, certainly not for Christ’s glorification.” No human can judge another human’s heart. Michal tried to judge David when he danced before the Lord and accused him of doing it to show off before the women of the city. David rebuked her because his motivation had been utter joy in the Lord (2 Sam. 6:14-23). This passage helped change me from once believing as you did, Michelle. Now, as David said, “I will play [celebrate] before the Lord.”

      1. Also, you said that praising God to loud, rocky music wouldn’t bring glory to Christ. But according to 1 Cor. 10:31, even when I eat food or drive my car or have sex with my husband, I am to glorify God. Since we are commanded to do ALL things to glorify God, it means that God CAN be glorified in such “mundane” or earthly things (that’s why I chose such a shocking example). He can be glorified in ways that are outside our limited comprehension. Thus to limit him by saying such music doesn’t glorify God seems to go against Scripture.

        It also goes against Ps. 150:4 which says to praise God with dancing. Last time I checked, dancing involved moving the physical body.

        1. Thank you for your response, Pastor’s Wife. When I hear loud rock music and see people dancing to the beat, I see them as showing off for other people – not to bring glory to God, but to themselves.

        2. Which is, of course, your perception and has no bearing on the reality of what is in their heart.

        3. @ Michelle

          I noticed that you have a lot of statements that you assert to be true (probably because you have heard them your whole life), but they are actually false assumptions or unprovable. You may want to actually “search the scriptures, to see if they be true.”
          1. Physical pleasure is somehow wrong – nowhere in the Bible is this stated or implied. This belief usually comes from a misunderstanding of the warnings against “the world.” You will probably note inconsistency in that people that believe music which pleases your body is wrong” will have no problem engorging themselves on food or having sex with their spouse (or sometimes not their spouse in the case of many so-called pastors).
          2. God cannot be pleased if I am enjoying something – I realize this is similar to number one, but as many theologians (such as PW) have noted, our greatest pleasure is derived from using these things to glorify God, and they in turn give us great pleasure both physically, emotionally, and spiritually.
          3. Backsliding churches usually change music as their first thing – you are kind of right here. However, most of these churches are not backsliding from what Christ taught but are instead moving closer to what Christ taught. Impacting their community, loving the poor in reality, reaching out to the hurting are not things that go against Christ’s teachings. However, I am sure that you have heard those kind of churches mocked by your own pastors? I would ask you, which is more important…living in a way that pleases Christ or having every theology and truth absolutely correct. I hope that you would respond with “living.” If so, those “backsliding” churches are actually doing what is right, and other churchs…?
          4. You claim to be Christians – not everyone on this sight is a Christian. Also, there are many theological persuasions that might offer new insight to ways of understanding Scripture that are foreign to the style of preaching that you have heard (such as in context).
          5. I see people rocking out and dancing to glorify themselves – This is a very problematic statement for you to make. I know these kind of statements come easily, but unless we know specifics of these people, we really have no idea what their motivation is. I used to think similar things until I got to know many of the people at my church that did those things. Once I got to know them, however, I found many committed Christians who loved God, and worshipped Him more biblically than I did… you have to understand that the Bible commands praising Him with dancing, and yes, the Jews used some strong beats in their music.
          5. Arrogance and nastiness – sure there may be some arrogance and nastiness, but most of it is an actual hatred of the spiritual and mental abuse perpetrated by so-called “preachers of God.” There is a subtle form of control that is obvious to those who are out but is not obvious to those who are still in it. These people are seeing a fire and yelling to those in the building to get out.

          I hope that these points did not convey arrogance and nastiness. I also hope that I don’t sound like I know everything but only that I am constantly learning and trying to drop things that I have been taught which actually don’t match up with scripture.

        4. I always thought people were showing off too; that’s what I’d been told. Then I met some Christians who worshipped that way and realized how wrong I’d been to judge them.

          Imagine a contemporary youth service where the teens are rocking out to praise songs but then go out and indulge in unChristian behavior. One could say that the CCM was encouraging their sin. But then imagine a Baptist service where the teens, dressed in button-down shirts and ties, sing hymns, but afterward they bully a bus kid. One could say the formal, traditional service was encouraging their sin of pride and self-righteousness. If one’s heart is inclined toward licentiousness, Christian rock may be one’s excuse for fleshly indulgence or showing off. But if one’s heart is inclined towards judgmentalism and feeling superior to others, the traditional church service may feed THAT attitude. I truly don’t think it’s a matter of music – although I truly understand that people may prefer one style over another – but a matter of the heart.

        5. I think most people who dance to music do it because it’s fun, not for other people to watch. Moving your body to music just feels good. Try it sometime!

    5. “I cannot believe the arrogance and nastiness…”
      Michele, to the pure all things are pure. I see very little arrogance or nastiness on this site except when some fundy-defenders show up arrogantly accusing people in the nastiest way possible. When defending the indefensible the best tools are arrogance and nastiness. Quite honestly I feel neither arrogant nor nasty in posting this but I doubt you’ll see it that way… sad 🙁

      1. Sorry, I did not mean that people who replied to other people’s posts were nasty or arrogant in doing that. Where I see arrogance and nastiness are the posts in which people mock the preacher’s tie….or diet….or family.

        1. Michelle, you seem sincere so stick around and you’ll se that much of the negative that you percieve comes from people whose eyes have been opened and are appalled that they once bought into this stuff hook-line-and-sinker. They mock at “how could I have ever bought that. It’s recovery. :mrgreen:

        2. I can’t speak for everyone here but in my case it took me years to see that the emperor had no clothes.
          I found that much of what I had been taught was built on false premises.
          If a person spends their entire childhood and youth being deliberately deceived they may lash out at any representation of their past life.
          I know that I feel tempted to engage in running this man down when I see him, either through ignorance or malice, deceiving people.

      1. It’s douche-bag comments like this that I think she is referring to when she mentioned the arrogance and nastiness on this site.

        1. Come on, J-man, you really want me to go dredge up your old comments for some prime examples of douche-baggery?

        5. Actually, Michelle was referring to comments that “are the posts in which people mock the preacher’s tie….or diet….or family.”

        6. Y’know, Jonny-boy, I think you’re just here for the fight too. We’re more alike than you’d like to think…

        8. Why so much hate for the tie comment? It’s not that hard to tie a tie. Seriously. It should go to your belt buckle. I would point that out to his face. Just throwing that out there. And then you would have the gasping person in the audience saying: “But he’s a pastor!!” Yeah….. still a human and needs to figure out how to dress correctly.

        9. I have serious cognitive dissonance for a fundy that doesn’t know how to tie “God’s knot”, the double windsor! 🙂 Don’t you even think about tying a single windsor or a 4 in hand and get in a Baptist pulpit! You might as well have “The Message” and be carrying a drum set! 🙂

    7. Arrogance about your clinging to your 17th and 18th century pop music style is a heart problem.

      2. That’s a slander on the 17th and 18th centuries right there. Babdis hymnody especially is all chromatic dirges, trioless marches, and formless messes that are attempts to metricize things like genuine spirituals. Ugh.

  34. There it came. It was right at the end, but he finally said it:
    “If your heart is right…”

    Complete drivel and bunk. False premise built upon false premise to prove his supposed point.

    Also since he said that music is connect to ‘work’ is he really admitting to being a legalist right there? I think he is. And his only example was passing out tracts. I wonder if during that meeting when they sang congregational hymns if they immediately broke out into visitation. I doubt it.

    Also beating on the pulpit and yelling, “come on now, help me” doesn’t make any less BS.

    1. And if you miss the significance of “if your heart is right” what he does there is admit that everything he said is BS. But, now you have no argument that can trump his. No amount of logic and no other verse will work because, ‘if your heart is right’ you’ll just believe what I said.

  35. “Which is, of course, your perception and has no bearing on the reality of what is in their heart.”

    Matthew 7:20, “Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”

      1. Michelle, you will need to learn not to argue with the folks on this site. They are never wrong and if you disagree, you will be called all types of names and have accusations made about your sanity and integrity.

        2. Point of order: I called no names and maligned no one’s opinion or perception. I merely stated the verse used is out of context. When placed in its proper context, we see Jesus was speaking to false prophets, not to everyone. If you don’t like rock, rap, or polka, its o.k. But to stand in the pulpit and harangue people about the externals is a false propet bearing bad fruit. So maybe that verse isn’t so irrelevant after all.

      2. Sigh….why is this completely irrelevant? Because it is my opinion or (as Darrell correctly put it) my perception?

        1. You have to ask yourself “what is the fruit?”

          Is it not dancing, not drinking, not smoking? No! It’s love, joy, peace, and long-suffering and the whole other list of fruits of the Spirit.

          What did Our Lord say? By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples…that you don’t drink, don’t chew, and don’t date boys who do? No! That we have LOVE one for another. There were a whole lot of things in that “sermon” above but LOVE wasn’t one of them!.

          It’s not what goes into a man but what comes out of him that defiles him. The matters are ones of the darkened heart not the dancing foot. And you can’t visibly discern the one just because you happen to see the other.

        2. And, in case you are confused, love is clearly illustrated and demonstrated by having a blog that mocks a group of people for their lifestyle choices. Love is also shown by going to that blog and making comments about the weight, dress, and hairstyle of the legalistic preacher spewing nonsense about music. That is how Jesus intended us to show love.

        3. Sometimes love looks like overturning the tables of money changers and calling the religious leaders of the day “whitened tombs full of dead men’s bones.” This too is love.

          I love my daughter. I love her so much that if anything in this world tried to hurt her I would move heaven and earth to destroy that thing and kill it deader than dead. This too is love.

          Sometimes love isn’t sunshine and flowers and pleasant phrases spoken in dulcet tones. Sometimes love looks an awful lot like the execution of righteous wrath against those who would hurt and deceive the innocent. Sometimes it does.

          But by all means, continue on with your sanctimonious rambling. We’re all just dying to hear what pearl of wisdom you next will produce for us.

        4. I love the fact that you take your little “mission” so seriously and that my comments get you so agitated. And, yes, I am self-obsessed and believe that the world revolves around me.

          Righteous wrath…that’s a good one.

        5. Darrell seems to be having a bad day following the “do not feed the troll” rule! Usually that’s reserved for dopes like myself to blow past… 🙂

        8. @Jonathan

          And, in case you are confused, love is clearly illustrated and demonstrated by having a blog that mocks a group of people for their lifestyle choices.

          No mention of the man ranting and raving about my lifestyle choices? Hmmm? Obviously cause man looks on the heart (Satire (I know some people have trouble understanding literally devices from 8th grade, so I thought I’d include that )) he knows I have a heart problem because I enjoy punk rock. Yup. He knows that. He knows that when I listen to that music I obviously don’t wanna do anything for the Lord. Rabbit trail: you can’t warm up for sports games listening to Soundforth and John Williams. My old highschool still hasn’t figured that out.

          Love is also shown by going to that blog and making comments about the weight, dress, and hairstyle of the legalistic preacher spewing nonsense about music.

          The mocking, in my opinion, is lighthearted. I’m not saying always, but to me, when I mention someone’s tie is 4 inches too long, I’m joking. It’s like Arethea Franklin at Obama’s inauguration. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jeetJTfzUoU/SXd8YQ-RlzI/AAAAAAAADXk/Yf8WocJC5KE/s400/ArethaFranklin-ObamaInauguration2009.jpg. You can’t help but laugh. You don’t hate that person for their attire, but it’s still freaking hilarious.

        9. I love and revere Aretha Franklin, but that hat is some kind of crime against nature.

        10. Michelle, it’s irrelevant because the “fruit” Jesus is talking about in that passage is the prophecies of false prophets. You’ll know a false prophet by the fact that his prophecies fail. Context is crucial.

    2. This verse is SO important! I do use it to give me discernment. I look to see if people’s lives are conveying love, joy, peace, gentleness, and other fruit of the Spirit. If someone is rocking out to praise music one minute but screaming at their kids the next, they’re hypocrites. If someone joyfully sings a hymn along with organ and piano yet is rude and condescending to the waiter at the restaurant after church, they’re hypocrites. Actually, I AM often a hypocrite and fail to live up to the high standards I desire, so I’m so thankful for Christ’s blood which covers me.

      1. Honestly, I did not come on here to offend anyone. I merely wished to point out that I agreed with this preacher regarding music, and how I simply do not perceive any music with a beat to be edifying to God, only to ourselves. I realized that most people here would probably disagree with me.

        Thank you, Pastor’s Wife, for your humble response and example of God’s grace. I am a work in progress, too. Just this morning, I got very angry at my child for purposely spilling her yogurt at breakfast. But even Jesus yelled at the moneychangers when they were naughty, didn’t he? 😉

        1. I hope you are kidding about the comparison of yelling at your children versus Jesus yelling at the money changers in the temple.

        2. quote: I merely wished to point out that I agreed with this preacher regarding music, and how I simply do not perceive any music with a beat to be edifying to God

          ummm … all music has a beat to it. Look up the definition of music. Melody, harmony and rythmn (the beat). if music had no beat, it would cease to be music

        3. Most of us here have rejected the music theology preached within the IFB. That “theology” is man-made law. It has been added to the Word making it legalism. Jesus’ actions and words in the NT make it clear he condemned the legalism of the Pharisees – church leaders. ❗

          He told us that others would know we are Christians by our love, not by the length of our hair, the clothes that we wear or the channel on our radio. I hope you can realize that we have been burned by the legalism w/in the IFB, and your statements were like slapping someone’s sunburn. True, many comments here get snarky. And people’s feelings get hurt, etc., but we are here to support each other. If you are here for a different reason, you may want to limit your comments. 😉 (Said in all kindness and sincerity.)

        4. Hi Michelle, welcome to the SFL playroom. I know I’m late to the discussion but I would like to ask you a couple of things. First I’m assuming that you are coming from a fundy perspective, most of the fundy’s will appeal to the scriptures, now this guy not so much, but what I would like to know is, do you base your opinions about music on the bible or just sermons you heard like the one on display here? and secondly could you share some of the scriptures that support your view of music? Or if you would like to drop it, you can do that as well. 😀

          We have spied your spirit, you are welcome here.

        5. Michelle, if you think it’s nuts around here…you should check out the forum. That’s where the real fun happens.. :mrgreen:

        6. Well I for one am glad to have you, M. But you should know that most of the people here believe that theology – especially “thou shalts” and “thou shalt nots” must come from the Scriptures. The music thing doesn’t. It quite simply is not in the Bible. Now, I for one despise contemporary worship, and most of the honky tonk garbage from my fundy years. I prefer organ and high church music. But you know what? I recognize that that is purely my preference which I am allowed to have. You’re allowed to have yours as well, but I suggest that your preferences are just that. What this man is preaching is plainly false. It just is not in the Bible.

        7. Michelle,
          We really are glad to have you join our happy little band. And believe it or not, many of us once were where you are now and we would have been “hey-mening” you on. Hang out with us for awhile and get to know us, read our stories and fellowship with us. We have seen a glimpse of your heart and I don’t believe you are a troll but it seem that you have some honest issues. We love to talk to those who are willing to have honest discussions.
          Again, welcome.

        8. Michelle,
          Thanks for livening the place up! If you are still following this let me add this point in response to, “…I simply do not perceive any music with a beat to be edifying to God, only to ourselves.”

          In I Corinthians Paul says “He who speaks with a toungue edifies himself well enough…” In its context this carries no condemnation of that fact even though Paul goes on to say that “In the church” it is more appropriate to edify the church.

          The command to “Be filled with the Spirit, speaking to yourselves with Psalms and hymns and spirituall songs” is specifically directed at edifying ones self.

    3. Romans 14:4,”Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

      Luke 6:36-38, “Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure–pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return.”

      If you esteem one day over another that is your Liberty or your conviction, when you project your convictions on to others that is legalism. That is what Jesus rebuked the Pharasees for. The bottom line is I cannot look at your heart and say if you are Born again or not. (comming out of the IFB cult I have seen many who appeared to be saved and were producing many works that were being passed as fruit. Were they saved? I don’t know. One who was a “pastor” is now in jail.) Only God knows the heart. It is enough that we do what we do unto the Lord and not to please the self anointed fruit inspectors around us.

      1. Also I Cor 8 and Romans 14 might be good chapters for some people to actually read instead of skipping over because they don’t understand or agree with them.

        1. Michelle, a bad haircut is a bad haircut. And I will not get my music theology from someone with a bad haircut. I do have some standards. :mrgreen:

        2. When you are a shallow pompous windbag who produces no scripture but only spews nonsense, then we are all just returning the courtesy by commenting on the only “things” of substance that we can.

          Go ahead Michelle, take a shot! Jonathan?

        3. @Presbygirl, I think the video was full of garbage. I think discussions about music are full of garbage. I think that people who put people down on either side of the music issue are full of garbage. This guy didn’t know what he was talking about. However, regardless of whether he had a good haircut or a bad haircut, it was extremely petty to make fun of it. Is that shot enough for you?

    1. Amen! I noticed all the crying, too. They are probably scared from all the yelling. I know I am.

  38. Holy crap. This is the spiritual equivalent to spoiled food. It gives me intellectual and spiritual diarrhea.

    3. spiritual diarrhea would be-e-e-e-e-e, yep, sure enough… it’s Holy Crap. 😯

  39. I was just wondering. Was he getting his sermon off of facebook or from a text message or something? He kept looking at his phone in his hand like he was having another conversation altogether.

    1. I think he either had his Bible or his notes on his phone.

      Not that this sermon really required either.

      1. Naaah…. Jack Schaap was emailing him the sermon…point by ridiculous point.

  40. OK OK I got it…..Let’s have a “preach-off”. Brian boy here versus drum roll….David Grice! I wanna see David put a size 14…

    In the words of the famous Don… “Let’s get ready to rumble”!

    How about it Darrell?? That could be a Friday Challenge? Mono e Mono. The Big Boys!

    1. At first, I thought you misspelled “mano a mano” which means hand-to-hand combat, but then I realized that “mono a mono” translates as “monkey to monkey,” which is perhaps even more appropriate.

  41. You know when I totally rejected the IFB/Gothard music beliefs? When I became a music major in college, started taking music theory and philosophy (and a few logic classes), and realized that Gothard didn’t have a clue what he was talking about. They really have no knowledge of music theory, philosophy, culture, or history. Not to mention basic logic.

    2. Now there is the problem right there…you went to college. No good could come from that, no wonder your thinking is now wrong about music.

      I’ll see ya an irregular heartbeat and raise you one Cabbage Patch Doll. :mrgreen:

      1. College wasn’t the problem. It’s all those satanic messages recorded backwards….that’s the REAL problem.

        1. It’s probably not possible, but you just gave me a great idea. Need to somehow convince fundys that Gothard has backmasked messages in his teachings! 🙂

    3. Becoming a music major was the best thing that ever happened to me. Having to learn the history of the stuff makes you realize all the trash said by people who don’t know how to read music was so irrelevant. And ignorant.

  42. I do not want to quote Hindu philosophy too much but a little bit won’t hurt. 😉 I believe this will help to elucidate a point I would like to make:
    One story tells of a man who enters a darkened room and sees a cobra coiled on the floor. He runs from the room terrified. Later, after day dawns, he realizes that the ‘snake’ was in fact a coiled rope.
    The point of the story is that if we are not open to truth we will spend our lives running from non-existent threats. We should closely examine that which we fear to ascertain that it is indeed a danger. Much fear stems not from fact but from ignorance.
    That story reminds me so much of fundyism. Preachers, such as the man in the video, spend their time screaming about the dangers of ‘snakes’ that are in fact a harmless bit of rope, neither good nor bad.
    I do not condemn the man in the video, I feel sorry for him. I spent a large part of my life running from imaginary, unBiblical dangers-dangers that only existed in my mind. I know what it is like to live that life.
    After time, you and your listeners become unable to recognize true dangers from false ones. This is why it is absolutely crucial to read the Bible for what it says, not for what you think it says or should say.

    “Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”

    1. Your Hindu philosophy works. But you can’t feel sorry for him. He is lazy. He just wants to hear himself talk.

    2. I am waiting for someone to get on here and tell yout that quoting a Hindu philosopher is a slippery slope, and it just goes to prove their point that if you wouldn’t have listened to CCM, then you wouldn’t be denying the faith by needing to quote hinduism.

      1. Actually, I was hoping someone would point that out. 😀
        I was going to point out that just because someone is wrong about one thing doesn’t necessarily make them wrong about everything. I have some theological disagreements with Muslims but I still use algebra on occasion.

        2. @ Apathetic

          I know. I here this kind of logic all the time in fundamentalism and in other Christian circles. We can’t use psychology because Freud was a pervert, we can’t listen to Christian rap because the history of rap is violent and demeaning to women, we can’t talk about Nietzsche because he believed God is dead, we can’t listen to CCM because that music was born out of the Jesus movement which is associated with the hippies that hated Christianity.

          How about we put each idea through a biblical worldview instead of throwing everything out because it might be associated with something bad or have some bad part of it. This is the real problem with the fundy view of separation.

        4. @ Kevin and Apathetic
          The problem with running anything through a Biblical World View for a Fundie is that their Biblical Worldview begins and ends with “avoiding all appearance of evil.” That is the sum total of their worldview. Hard to slip anything past a group that is so heavenly minded as that. 😉

    1. And hold on while I go listen to Third Day and get this nonsense put of my head.

  44. This is truly amazing… I am in a debate right now on whether music is “holy” or not… and I read something someone put there that really made sense. I’ll re-post it on the forum, if anyone wants to see it.

  45. This is truly amazing… I am in a debate right now on whether music is “holy” or not… and I read something someone put there that really made sense. I’ll re-post it on the forum, if anyone wants to see it. 🙂

  46. Why is it that fundy preachers demean contemporary churches by saying they try to “entertain” people, but they all seem to LOVE to throw in little un-funny jokes and mocking voices to try to get a laugh out of their congregation? I have NEVER heard a pastor do that high-pitched mocking voice except for these fundy pastors. What’s the deal with that??

  47. Anyone know how to use AutoTune? This clip would be awesome with a sick bass line and autotuning the sermon…

    1. Makes me long for the vuvuzela sound over that was available on You Tube during World Cup.

  48. This preacher needs to get out in this world and get his hands dirty doing some real good in this world. This message, IMHO, implies that he has way too much time on his hands. Visit a cancer patient while he gets his chemo treatment, or visit hurting parents who just came back from an emotionally stressful visit to the neo-natal unit. He needs a reality check.

  49. Two things: 1. This guy seems like a child to me. When did I get so old? 2. In my church I sometimes see people texting during the sermon but never the pastor.

  50. So, are women not allowed to own cars? Is it wrong that THAT is the only thing I took away from that sermon? 🙄

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