262 thoughts on “Marriage Retreats”

  1. My wife and I actually considered several times going to one of these, though I don’t remember who was “hosting” it. Looking back I am SO glad we didn’t…..we would have likely left comparing our marriage to the sickeningly happy host couple and determining we didn’t have a happy marriage. But….we do!! 😀

    1. A friend of mine and her husband went to one once, got guilted into trying to have him “lead” more and her “submit” more and it nearly ruined their marriage. 🙄

  2. “Closer to him (brother Scot) closer to First Baptist and closer to God” – notice the order of priority and the absence of the poor wife in there.

    Also – who the heck thought bowling in a long skirt was a good idea? Surely, they weren’t dressed like that all the time?

    2. In this guy’s defence, St Paul puts the most important thing at the end of most of his lists. However, I do definitely see your point, and I highly doubt he was thinking of the list in the Pauline Epistles.

    3. Yup. That’s why you go on a couple’s retreat: to get closer to the pastor, closer to your church, and closer to God. Your wife? Pffft. As long as she’s submitting, everything’s good. 🙄

    4. I had the same thought about bowling.
      Women, isn’t there a pretty big tripping hazard when you bowl in a floor-length skirt?

      1. Yeah, but it’s OK, it’s not like they’re holding a 10-pound resin ball that could hurt anything if they fell. BG, if you want to do a road trip… I’d go. I’d look creepily young (still get asked if I’m +18), and I wouldn’t have the appropriate long, curly ringlets, but it’s not like anything but the hair would bother them, right? This shit needs documented. Are there any groups specifically to help ex-Hyles/Hammond women? Looks like they could use it.

        1. Yeah, Naomi, let’s infiltrate!
          Based on the couples shown in the video, I’d say the fact that you look a lot younger than me would add credibility. We can paint over your tattoos or whatever. Might do a wig, too. My hair is too long for them, but I’ll have Natalie give me “the Baptist” the day before.
          Then, of course, we’ll write a full report and let SFL publish it, right after The New Yorker.

        2. Who needs to cover tattoos if you’ve got neck to wrist to ankle covering? Seriously, if someone wants to go record this…

    2. Same woman, different husband.
      But since the wives are only silent props in this video, anyway, they’re all interchangeable. Maybe the lumberjack dude’s partner had already stomped out by then, so they borrowed Golf Guy’s helpmeat to stand next to Lumberjack while he said his lines.

  4. A Marriage Retreat? 😕
    or
    A Retreat from Marriage? 😯

    I think King Arthur put it best after delivering the Trogan Rabbit:
    “Run Away! Run Away!”

    Yes, quite… that would be the best recourse. Run Away from anything the Fundie Cult has to do regarding relationships.
    Fundies on interpersonal relationships are sort of like Gunny Sgt. Ermey leading Sensitivity Seminars. 😈

    1. Feels good!
      Is good!
      Real good!
      Tastes good!
      Mighty good!
      Good for you!
      Good for me!

    2. RUN! Yes, my husband and I have been to a few of these (not 1st Baptist) and I can tell all of you ladies out there in 13 words what wisdom will be imparted in the ladies only sessions, “Obey your husband and have sex with him every time he wants it.” RUN!

      I hated these retreats and told my husband I would not go back. Since then we make time to spend ALONE. Much more romantic then wearing an ankle length skirt and listening to fundy pontificating.

    1. Usually people who put promo videos try to have balance so it is really amazing to me that they had couple after couple where the wife stood there smiling, sometimes mouthing “Amen” or “Yes”, while the husband did all the talking.

      “How to Have a Happy Fundy Marriage Seminar 1 – Ladies’ Session: Learn to Be Quiet. In this exciting session, wives will learn how quiet agreement with everything your husband says and letting him express all the opinions you have as a couple will greatly enhance his satisfaction with you.”

    2. The first two times I read this, I read “notice none of them are milked” which led me to all kinds of confusing mental places.

      /justhadtosharethat

    1. Yes it is. Cause everybody who lives in that area knows how many great activities there are in the Lombard area. 🙄 Seriously, someone actually came in from Jacksonville, Florida for this? Hope they at least got to have fun at the Yorktown Mall, the same mall that used to be the headquarters for Veggie Tales! 😉

  7. This is a copy cat of Dennis Rainey’s “Weekend To Remember”. Fundies see that these heathen evangelicals are doing something for couples so they try to produce a fundy version. Weekend to remember is a great learning experience. Interactive, challenging and fun. Fundy version is a lame replica used to try and show kool-aid drinkers that they are relavant and can do anything evangelicals can do, except with a fundy twist.

    1. I really liked A Weekend to Remember. Don’t think I’d want to do a fundy version though!

  8. I laughed at the bowling in the long skirts. . .I bet they were dressed like that the whole time. Did you notice all the ties/bowties? Also, a lot of the guys looked way older than their wives. . or maybe it was my imagination.

    I can think of about a million other (i.e. actually fun and romantic) ways I would prefer to spend a weekend w/ my spouse.

  9. Of course we can NOT ignore the irony of the words on the 3 pillars in the background.

  10. I’m gonna toot my own horn here to make a point:

    Never went to a marriage retreat. Ya see, if you love your wife and respect her and treat her like an equal, you’ll do fine.

    To wit: One year while still in the desert of fundyland, my wife went to a “Womens’ Conference”. When she got back, she about smothered me with affection and thanks, literally in tears: “After hearing those other women talk during the car ride, I’m SOOOOO glad you don’t treat me like that”.

    And, seriously, she was in tears. All I could do was be thankful for a wonderful woman while being so angry at all those &*$^(!^@@ guys at church.

    Fundy Marriage is where a man gets someone to pick up after him while he does his own thing. *PUKE*

    1. I was at a bridal shower where it was the same thing, different flavor. Discussing not finding out sex can be fun until 10 years and 3 kids (!!) into marriage. I can thankfully say there was a big difference in the perspectives of the older and younger generations, but I don’t think those underlying insecurities (about how much women can ask for what they want from their male partners, or say no to what they don’t want, about anything, not just sex) are uncommon and it sickens me.

  11. Hubby and I went to every one of those retreats beginning from its inception with 10 couples in Chicago about 7 years ago.
    It is REALLY hard for me not to make a million comments because boy can I tell you some doozy fundy split sessions that will make you want to throw up in your mouth… 😳
    Oh and nothing like mandated “romance” on that Friday night when you have a room next to the choir director and you can hear through the walls and the “jokes” the next morning about how everyone had a “great nights sleep and everyone making a count on how many retreat babies were made..wink wink…ARGGHHHH!!! 😯

      1. What are YOU talking about? You are the one who posted this and made me go into PTSD mode! Jerk! :mrgreen:
        I know everyone of these people!
        In fact bonus points to the person who spots the inventor of the “BANDAID” in this video… 😯 ( She is NOT speaking, which might I add is quite a miraculous feat in itself.)

        1. PS..You all are lucky you never went the year 200 of us fundy women sat in a split session that consisted of a bull whip, lipstick and my old dorm supe showing off her nightie she was wearing that night. Oh and Tom Williams ( Who is like 70) talking about Felatio or however you spell it… 😯

        2. PSS OH WAIT…or the time we were told that if we aren’t as wives pleasuring our husbands every 48 hours he will explode and die and its our fault…NO KIDDING…

        3. This retreat is starting to sound more and more amusing. Do I sense a SFL road trip in the making?

        4. So, so, so, sooooooooo messed up. When are people going to wake up? I feel so bad for those women. They are worth so much more (to their God, to other people) than they will likely ever realize in that environment. (((((((you)))))))

        5. So….let me get this straight I am his Beloved….they believe masturbation is a sin, but that if men don’t get it enough they will explode and die. What are unmarried men supposed to do until they find wives? There’s a long time between puberty and marriage.

        6. @I am His beloved…the “woman are basically sex toys for man’s pleasure” mentality came to my church from the Hyles camp when I was a teenager. We had these little training classes to teach us how to look appealing to men.

        8. Oh goodness Beloved! Yikes…so in this split session did the men learn about “Colonel Angus” 😉

        10. What was the conversation about that like among the students? Did people believe the teachers?

        11. It wasn’t really talked about outside of class, at least not from what I heard.

        1. The pastor of the last church I escaped from – erm left had his own version of it (cause he is the only one who REALLY knows what God means in the Bible and we can’t trust our own relationship with God). He called it “Marriage Upgrade.” Complete with “skits.” That’s as much as I can say without going psycho.

    3. I suppose that if a woman is just property a man could treat her however he wants. But why do I get the feeling God would be offended by that?

  12. Random Thoughts:
    1. I wonder if FBC had the Westin remove all of the televisions from their block of hotel rooms. (You know, to prevent them from flipping through the channels and seeing a passing scene of Law & Order SVU, The Office, or (God forbid!) Sex and the City)
    2. Bowling in long skirts? I cannot imagine anything more dull. (I’d have to bring my own jungle juice/ disguised alcoholic cocktail (yum!) to get through that.)
    3. FBC High School’s Prom King and Queen from 2003 at 2:42 (the ones getting “spoiled rotten”).
    4. Man at 2:54: He’s not wearing a tie. He looks like he slept in that shirt. He needs to get right with Gawd.
    5. Saving $400.00 in pocket change? Commendable, but not relevant, dear. I’m surprised the editors didn’t cut that.
    6. I wonder how much mercy and forgiveness Schaap extended to his grandmother.

    1. haha prom king and queen are right… i laughed when that dude even started talking… sounded like a preacher boy… “mark, sarah rayder, this is our SECOND year coming to the marriage retreat, and it’s a MUST!”

      giggling at those outfits is a must.

    3. This is clearly the wealthy segment of the fundy crowd: All the wives are either gorgeous or much younger than their husbands.

      1. They only showed the pretty ones in the video. Want to make the MOG and husbands look good, amen? Plus, Jack*** Shaap (to borrow from another poster) has decreed that wives can’t “let themselves go”. 👿

        2. No, it’s coming back. Jack*** tried to shorten his name, but the new one didn’t stick.

      1. Oh yeah, BT totally freakin’DT. Ours was a youth banquet with dinner in the church hall (the did try to make it look romantic with silk flowers and candles on all those long banquet tables). After dinner, upstairs to the auditorium to hear a short (under 30 minutes) message and then some sort of entertainment. One year we had a xtain ventriloquist (who managed to make the lamest entertainment act on the planet even lamer) and the next year, they actually turned out the lights and show a movie. ‘The Burning Hell’, how romantic. 🙄

        1. Yes! I forgot all about the sermon!!! Sitting there in those dresses you can barely breathe in especially after being forced to eat dinner and then they stick you in a stuffy room where some guy can yell at you! Burning Hell? Sounds romantic! At least you didn’t have to watch Pamela’s Prayer…I’ve posted a trailer before. I believe that The Burning Hell was probably more believable and less traumatic than that 😉

      2. With us, it was also a banquet, followed by awards, and then an exclusive showing of that all-time teenage classic… Laurel and Hardy in Toyland. 😯
        I am not making this up.

    5. Regarding #4, I think that was Carol Frye 7 her husband….obviously, everything they have to say is important.

  13. My wife and I went to a “couple’s retreat” once. It was co-hosted by our church. Someone very publicly made a contribution for us to go without asking us if we wanted to go so we had little choice.
    It was okay, except for the super creepy main speaker. I remember vividly him explaining how loving and close their family was. To illustrate this he said that he still kissed his sons on the lips while he tucked them in at night. His sons ages? 16 and 18! 😯 I took a one way trip to the restroom right about then.

    The rest of our time in fundystan we made it widely known that we were unavailable during the Couples Retreat weekends due to prior engagements.

    I remember one year during the Couples Retreat we went and rented a cabin in the woods for a few days. We went hiking, antiquing and fishing. We had more fun plus we saved money over what they were charging for the retreat.

    1. Kissing relatives on the lips is normal in some cultures. It’s pretty weird in North America, though.

    1. Good point, Kate–but Christian fundies prefer emotional burkas to physical ones. 👿

  16. haha yeah gotta love the dude who looked like he had just finished chopping wood or something… that would have been me! while all the other guys in lame-o tuxes turn up their noses.

    1. Actually, that guy was the one where I thought “Wow … he’s a REAL person. Bet he won’t last long”.

      I liked him. Anyone who’s willing to go against the grain (“He’s REBELLIOUS!”) is okay by me.

    1. Absolutely you should not! You should do whatever *you* most feel like. Whether that’s blowing chunks of the HAC vomit at all of us (I would be interested in hearing your stories, *if* you want to share) or completely putting it all out of your mind in favor of doing something enjoyable to you or whatever–do it! I’m pretty sure those women aren’t what God intended. That’s just sickening.

      1. Ok just for you Big Gary….I have to share this one…it goes down in history as the most awkward moment ever.
        So a few years back they had this skit during the retreat. The skit was titled ” Religious SECTS” Oh my word…it was an obvious pun on words..the room got REAL quiet when then the skit guy ( Poor Harrell he gets blamed for everything..) started talking about SECTS with Children and Schaap leading Religious SECTS..HAWWAAAAAABWHAA! I am turning bright purple, my huband and the wood chopper in this video who are pretty irrereverent and take jokes pretty well were een offended. Needless to say half way through the skit the plug was literally pulled..hahahahahaHA!!! :mrgreen:
        Ok..then there was the time a 65 year old Bible teacher who looks like my grandfather won edible undies for his wife in a contest…. 😈 That was quite nasty..
        …now on to the good stuff..the teaching. apparently it is my job to put the shine in my hubby. TO MAKE him a MAN OF GOD. It ALL starts with MY submission, regular sex and my submission. In that order. ( Remember ladies my body is His play ground) Women are to keep themselves looking good and anything less will send your man into an affair…Usually if there is marital discord it is becasue the woman is not submissive.
        Oh and did I mention that there was a woman who was the picture of servitude and submission. She put up with her husband beating her, drinking and he would often come home drunk as a skunk at midnight and expect fried chicken. She dutifully fried him chicken at midnight when he was drunk for over 20 years. ( Bless her heart)and because of her devotion her husband saw the error of his ways and ended up being a great husband who now only stopped at KFC at midnight instead of making her fry it up. ( Oh Ok..I add libbed the last part, but you get the picture!)
        I got more..but I am going to get myself in trouble!

        1. Jokes about “sects with children”?? 😳 Edible undies as a prize? 😳

          … And if I cheat on my wife, it’s HER fault? Actually, I kind of like that idea. I’m going to have trouble convincing my wife, though.

          I guess after they spend a lifetime drilling into people that anything sexual is sin, sin, sin, they think they have to do something to tell married people sex is OK. Otherwise, where would the new Fundies come from? It’s too bad they get most of it wrong, even then. Of course, they could let people (including women) decide for themselves when they want to have sex … no, no, that’s just crazy talk.

        2. Some of those anecdotes remind me of a moment in the film “The People vs. Larry Flynt.”
          (In case there’s anybody who doesn’t know, Larry Flynt was and is the publisher of “Hustler,” the magaine for men who think that “Playboy,” “Penthouse,” and “Jugs” are just too tasteful and erudite.)

          After meeting with Jimmy Carter’s evangelist sister, Flynt decides to become a Christian. When he announces that he’s going to start printing articles with Christian messages in “Hustler,” Flynt’s wife tells him, “Larry, nobody, but nobody wants religion mixed with porn.”
          (All of this really happened, by the way.)

          I don’t know if Mrs. Flynt was acquainted with First Baptist Church of Hammond, though.

    3. No please continue to share, if nothing else in the forum! Please, I’m loving the horribly awkward scary stories that make me want to laugh! I’m just wondering if you guys were given the “put a certain blanket on the bed when you are in the mood so your husband knows it’s okay” advice that I heard more than once as a young fundy married woman living on a Bible college campus. 😯

      1. They taught sexual semaphore?

        Why couldn’t you just tell him? Use words if you have to.

        1. Yeah, that’s what we always did or for crap’s sake just get undressed…if you’re still a newlywed, he’ll get the picture and there’s no need for words or semaphore! I thought the sex blanket was sick, and ridiculous. That couple that told us about that have been forever tattooed as that in my brain…Mr. and Mrs. Sex Blanket, I’m not proud of it, but that’s what happens sometimes…

    4. I don’t think I even know what to say. Some of the sects stories & stuff are amusing, I can’t get past how overwhelming that must be to be trapped into one of these marriages. Those women looked just trapped, and no ability to even think about what it must be like to be themselves. I hope there are people there that are just going to get along and putting on a show that they fit in, and don’t actually live like that. If they think that’s what love is, they are borderline monsters (the men).

      Makes me SOOOOOOO freaking glad to have never been raised in an insane misogynist environment like this. I still feel the need to make the disclaimer that “liberated women” were looked down on, but this kind of absolute silence and suppression of even the basic ability to speak for yourself is just astounding. I’m flabbergasted.

      1. Yes, it seems to me that the overwhelming theme of all this teaching (especially after some of the marriage retreat survivors’ stories here) is that the Fundies hate women. They don’t put it in those words, but every bit of this seethes with comtempt for women.

        Beloved (and anybody else who’s been through this), do you think most of those women really believe all that junk, or do they just put up with it to avoid the hassle of fighting it, or for fear of being rejected?

        1. Gary, I am convinced (having lived through it and now looking at it from the outside) is that they look at women to help them facilitate whatever the hell they want to do and to make babies. When I was a fundie, my self-worth was nil, because I was convinced that my only purpose was to help a man. It made me feel less of a person.

          Thank God, I no longer feel that way and KNOW that I am just as important as any man.

        2. I have so much to say about this but I simply state that there is so much domestic abuse there it is incomprehensible. Most of the abuse is passed off as the woman’s fault. There are a few good marriages and most of the men are good men, they have been such taught that the relationship exists solely to build them up. When these men don’t get sex, “submission” or a woman does not comply and becomes Mrs. Joe Smith ( take on his identity), if she thinks for herself, she is a rebel, a jezebel and will be urged by leadership to straighten up. Read any fundy book on marriage there and you will see. It is sad. I know so so so many cases of abuse there but the woman has no recourse. He has all assets in his name. Most women do not have a viable degree or job outside the home and no support network to help her get out of the abusive situation. ( The victim is blamed)
          What does she do?
          She suffers in silence.
          Very sad.
          It has taken over two years for my amazing hubby to see that it is ok for me to be me. He was taught for years that this was not the case and all the men around him supported that teaching. When we got out and he saw good Godly men treat their wives in a healthy manner it was shocking to him. We are doing so well now since we removed ourselves from there and the horrible brainwashing…so so well.

        3. Beloved, give your husband a firm, manly handshake and pat on the back from me.
          In my book, treating women as equals makes you more of a man, not less.

        4. Gary, the women stay and take that treatment because they are truly, truly convinced that they are pleasing God by being silent, submissive wives. Some of the real crazy ones believe that their very salvation depends on it.

          Not only do they have to answer to God for their submission, but they also have to answer for their husband’s behavior, too, because they believe they are responsible for it. Because everything HE does is a result of how submissive SHE is. That’s why if he is a porn addict or abusive, it’s her fault, she wasn’t submissive enough. I’ve btdt, and it’s a living hell. It’s like those seminars on how to please your man–SHE alone is responsible for the success of the marital sex life. Funny how they don’t have one of those classes for the men on how to please their wives in bed, ya know?

          WE say “these women are being treated like objects.” THEY say, “I am pleasing God by being submissive.”

          btw, Gary and RobM, I really appreciate your words. It is still hard for me to believe that there are men out there who think like you.

    5. Your stories made me realize that my last Fundie pastor (HAC graduate) was part of a group 😯 , not just a lone perv. As a man married for 20+ years, they don’t know what they are talking about ❗ . As a Christian for 30+ years, they are an abomination 😡 . Praise God you got away.

  19. I love this sight and read daily even though I don’t comment often, but this clip just has my blood boiling. It so exemplifies “their” view of women. One of the things that gave me the courage to walk away from that lifestyle was the births of my sons. I started to look around and thought to myself is this what I want my sons to grow up in? Do I want them to think that women are stupid, unable to speak for themselves or even have an opinion on their own?

    And what man would want to be married to a woman who had no opinion and doesn’t know how to think? I am so glad my husband is my best friend and values me for more than just sex and housekeeping.

    Okay…end of my rant. 🙄

    2. I count on my wife to keep me from making big mistakes. :mrgreen: Who wouldn’t want a wife/husband like that.

  20. They didn’t highlight some other noteworthy happenings. For instance …

    1:07 – “I’m so proud of my wife, who came in 3rd Runner Up in the Sarah Palin Lookalike Contest!”

    1:22 – “Brad who? Brad Garrett? No, I don’t think we’re related … why?”

    1:33 – Hey buddy, your hand is gettin’ kinda low …

    1:49 – Winner, Lee Marvin Lookalike contest!

    2:00 – “What brought us together? Well, I’ve always had a thing for bobbleheads …”

    2:10 – [female’s thoughts] “must … smile … keep … trying … THERE! … wait … can’t … hold … give … up …”

    3:21 – [passing through] “Dude, where’s the buffet? They said it was over here somewhere …”

    1. 2:00 – Some of it might be nervousness to be on camera, but I’ve seen a lot of those facial mannerisms before and I think that woman might be scared.

      2:10 – Something is really bothering this woman. I think she looks sad.

      All the other women look like they’re holding it together, keeping up their perfect look. Of course, these were the oldest (and not super-wealthy) looking women–maybe that life just wears you down after a while.

  21. If your skirt is wide enough and long enough, you can certainly take long strides, but then I don’t know how you’d keep your swinging ball arm from getting entangled in the fabric.

    1. Yeah; I thought the bow was out the OUTSIDE of the box stamped “Mail Order Bride”.

      /zing!

  23. I think the very last line was the most telling: “…it’s just a great time for us to get closer to him [Schaap], closer to the church, (stuttered pause) and closer to God.” Why bring God into this video?

    1. . . . Every time somebody quotes that clip I get a mental stutter. Who goes on a couples retreat to get closer to the pastor? Do they seriously see any difference between wives and fleshlights?

      1. That is the bait that the fundy preachers hold out to the serfs. The more involved you are in “ministry” the more of his one-on-one time will be doled out to you. And, it’s never enough.

  24. How to have an ideal marriage: Never let your wife say a word. Don’t even let the video person give her a microphone.

    (Of course, my wife would say exactly the same thing, except that she would substitute “husband” for “wife,” and “him” for “her.”)

    Seriously, this retreat seems like a well-planned way to make your marriage a lot worse. Dress up in uncomfortable clothes and sit on uncomfortable chairs in a windowless hotel ballroom listening to dumb lectures for a weekend. You’ll start getting tired and bored, and if you’re not very careful, you’ll start thinking you’re tired of each other and bored with each other. Then you have to spend the next few months trying to erase all that Fundy garbage they laid on you.

    If you want to improve your marriage, go on a hike together, take up a hobby together, or do anything good together. Don’t spend your valuable time together listening to Schaap’s theories about how reading the Bible is literally having sex (see Schaap’s book for details, or, better yet, don’t).

    1. Gary,
      Spot on. Every year hubby and I went to this retreat we ended up worse after than before. The enormous presure to follow stupid rules of engagement are ridiculous. The day we just enjoyed being together and accepted the unique person each of us were the better. Those retreats were something straight out of the Stepford Wives.
      Thank you God I am free and since leaving that crazy world happy then ever in my marriage!

        1. Every Friday night at the a big “balck Tie affair. These retreats were well into the upper 200-300 dollar range for ONE night. The men and women were encouraged to dress formal for that night. The rest of the retreat church clothes expected.

    2. If reading the bible with your wife is literally having sex with her, you are doing both wrong.

      1. No, no, God is “penetrating” you, every much in a literal, sexual, sense (according to Schaap). I don’t remember when the feature on Schapp’s book was here on SFL, or I would post the leak. The title was something like “Insane Heresies.”

  25. “My wife and I’s great honor” – Not the King’s English, or any other English

    “It’s just an honor to be a part of anything that takes place at 1st Baptist Church of Hammond.” – Including Hyles’s love affairs, student sex cover ups…

  27. I can honestly say that ever since leaving fundyland my marriage has never been better. We can talk and joke about a lot more stuff now without him having a “church fit” (people should know what I mean) and we almost never argue about church anymore.

  28. Mr. Blue Sweater says he’s “nervous as a cat on a hot rock.”
    Huh??? What two similes is he mixing here?
    My cats love curling up on a hot rock. They love anything hot. We have to keep the clothes dryer door shut so they don’t jump in. They’d sleep in the oven if I let them.

    1. …hmmm. If you didn’t know the cat was in there, and turned it on, would you be woking the cat??

      :mrgreen:

    2. I THINK he meant “like a cat on a hot tin roof,” like the Tennessee Williams play by the same name. Which I would be shocked if any fundy read/liked that play, given its themes and subject matter.

      1. Wonder if the other half is “jumpy as a flea on a hot brick”, I used to say that to my kids when they wouldn’t hold still. 😀

  29. The Dean of Women at the fundy college I graduated from used to be on staff at HAC. At my fundy college she taught the girls in Christian Womanhood that everything their husbands like they should like. His opinions should become your opinions. Let him win when you play games and when in a group of people with their husband say as little as possible and only say that which supports your husband in the conversation.

    As a man, I find that philosophy to be very offensive.

    Basically she is saying that men are shallow and can’t handle a woman who has her own thoughts, feelings and opinions of her own so a woman needs to surpress the person God created her to be and become something counterfit.

    I am not married but I would like to be. And frankly, I find the prospect of discovering who a woman is and why she thinks the way she does to be very interesting and exciting. For a man to hammer a woman into his own image seems like a very insecure thing to do.

    As a preacher I learned that even though I consider myself to be an intresting person I am not so interesting that I can make my sermons all about myself. Does it not stand to reason that I can not do the same in a marrage?

    Am I on the right track here?

    1. Yeah, not to mention that it’s morally wrong to ask another person to give up their personhood for you. The kind of thinking that says women should mold themselves to cater to men and not expect anything from them has very little respect for men.

    2. BTW the Dean of Women at the fundy college I went to was one of the most angry and unhappy women I have every known.

      1. You didn’t by chance go to Maranantha did you? 😯 I know there was a reason why that woman was not married!

        2. I also went there.
          The Dean of Women has a shrivelled spirit and a ghoulish smile.

          She gave my girlfriend a lecture on our marriage bed being defiled because she held my arm at a production of Wicked AFTER school was out for the summer. I figured she was grumpy because she wasn’t gettin’ any…

        3. Now wait a minute, holding somebody’s arm defiles your marriage bed?
          Does that include when I help a little old lady or a blind man cross a street?

        4. Soli, she got on your case about that? Then she would have flipped if she knew I gave a college girl a foot massage in my car.

    3. It sounds as though that Dean of Women was basically saying that husbands are infantile morons, and you have to humor them or they’ll throw tantrums. Her husband may be like that, but not all husbands are.

      Jason B, you have learned something about preaching that a lot of fundy preachers have yet to learn. As the video clips on this site demonstrate, many a Fundy preacher is the hero of every sermon he preaches.

    4. Unfortunately, IME, the Dean was right. I live in a completely secular world, but I’ve noticed that the women who do best on the dating market know how to stroke the men’s egos, can show excitement and awe at the men’s stories, agree with the men’s opinions while adding in something that makes the agreement seem genuine, and so on. If asked, the men in question would say submission is ridiculous, but the choices they make say otherwise.

      1. One of the smartest books I read about “how to catch a man” is Helen Andelin’s Fascinating Girl. She notes that men women to be a mix of the childlike and the angelic. Unfortunately, putting this into practice is extremely difficult. If she were still alive today, though, she’d be making a lot of money doing phone consultations and so forth.

        (And before you conclude my ill fortune is a result of my looks, I have some modeling in my past. I’m not perfect looking, but I turn a good dshare of heads. But regardless of how hard I try, I’m simply incapable of the kind of submission that indeed lands men, even in the secular world.)

        1. “… And before you conclude my ill fortune is a result of my looks… ”

          I wasn’t about to. I’d ask you out, but I’m married.

  30. I could get along with and love the one real guy at 3:00(although I didn’t listen to him)…I didn’t want to listen, just scanned thru, kept noticing the glaring silence of the standing-by women.

    Bowling scene must have been heavily edited for the slip and falls.

    I think this is all about the guys, says a lot about them.

    Tuxedos?

    1. I mean I love the kind of people that can come dressed down and stand up to the expectations of a crowd like this. He is lucky to have made the cut in the editing room for this video.

      1. He works for the school. They are an inner core couple. He was probably dressed like that on the last day of the conference when it was more casual.
        Good people.

  32. By the way, when was the law passed that says every amateur video has to have an annoying piano sound track?

  34. In my first marriage of 25 years we regularly attended marriage seminars. The really great one was called “Traits of Happy Couples”, the premise being that if you did what happy couples do you would become a happy couple. Kindof like if you gallop like a hourse you become a horse. 😥
    Did you catch that was my FIRST marriage? 😀
    It takes two to make a marriage but only one to make a divorce.

  37. I married a fundy man. He nearly ruined my life. Divorced now 10 years and never been happier. He had all the worst traits of fundamentalist men and then some.

  38. Marriaqe Retreats can be alot of fun if you have a good to fair marriage and BOTH partners have commited to improving and enhancing the commitment they share. If one spouce has an eye toward the door it can simply add fuel to the fire.

    1. Agreed. We went on our own “retreat” in January.

      That is, we went on a 10-day Caribbean cruise. 🙂

  39. When couples at our old church came back from a marriage retreat they all gave testimonies that Sunday night and I swear every one of those women said that they realized that they should be wearing skirts all the time and that would honor their husbands. One man even said in his prayer how blessed he was to have a wife that would wear skirts all the time…my then BF now husband who didn’t grow up fundy was like…”what is the deal w/that?” Way to improve your marriage…wear skirts! Guess in a way that could improve your marriage 😳

    1. My Fundy Mom has worn skirts her whole life. After breaking her hip, the therapists at rehab gave her a pair of sweats and told her to wear them. Now she is in sweats all the time (except for church of course)….It freaks me out! My Dad was fiercely against pants on her…but he just gave up as she does what she wants now.

      1. I guess men who do that (I’m assuming Don is a man) must be even more righteous than the skirt-wearing women. 😛

        2. You know what’s funny? Wearing a kilt will give a surge of testosterone like you’ve never experienced. You feel SOOO “manly” wearing a kilt. I guess it’s because it highlights the “I don’t give a ****” attitude lying inside you.

      3. Hmmm. My wife often asks me to wear a kilt (I’m Scots-Irish) and I always refuse. Maybe I’ll have to rethink this… 😉

        1. I’ve never worn one, but I’ve seen other men in them, and believe me, it doesn’t look girly or sissified at all. I’m serious.

        2. My brother-in-law is Scottish, and trust me, he does NOT look like a sissy wearing his kilts. At my daughter’s wedding, the fundy church photographer made the mistake of calling him over to the family group picture by saying, “Hey, you wearing the dress! Come over here.” My bil’s reply was, “Say that again, mate, and I’ll throw you through the wall.” He would have, too.

      5. I wore a kilt outfit to a renaissance faire last year. Gave me a new understanding of how much hastle women who wear skirts all the time have to go through.

        And it is definitely an experience every guy should try. I found it to be fun except when trying to sit on the ground.

  40. Okay, I don’t think I saw anyone comment on this. Forgive me if they did. What on earth is the guy in the middle of the crowd doing starting at about 0:53 seconds in? He keeps holding up two fingers and then pointing somewhere while looking straight at the camera. Is he trying to the waiter to send two beers to the Schaaps on his dime?!?! :mrgreen: Anybody have a clue?

    1. That should say…Is he trying TO MOTION to the waiter… Good old George strikes again!

    1. “And Jack Hyles is the Man.”
      (last part accidentally omitted when Hyles’ books were typeset.)

      1. And as former pro wrestler Ric Flair often stated, “To be the man, you gotta BEAT the man!” :mrgreen:

  43. I wonder how many participants ordered a porn movie off their hotel room’s television. I once read the the big Promise Keepers rally in Washington DC was a boom for the local gentlemen’s clubs.

    1. Actually, most hotels that had a lot of promise keepers staying there had spikes in in-room porno.

      1. I’ve heard this same story about male escorts seeing spikes in business when fundy conventions are in town. I always wonder how true these rumors are.

        1. I’ve heard this same kind of rumor about just about any religious group. “Whenever the [Jehovah’s Witnesses/Bojos/FLDS/orthodox Jews/Amish/group of your choice] come to town, the [local hookers/porn shops/900 #’s} do a booming business.” But I have never, ever seen solid evidence of that. No statistics, no data tracking, no information on how they know that. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but I’d sure like to see somebody do a serious investigation into this and see exactly how true it is or isn’t. It’s much easier to just make the statement, giggle, and move on.

        2. It would be interesting to know if it’s true, but I don’t know of anybody keeping data on the week-to-week trends in local sexually-oriented businesses, so anecdotal evidence from the people who work in those businesses and hotel and restaurant workers and taxi drivers and the like is about the best we can do. Strip clubs and whatnot have a lot of businesses when conventions are in town, but it would be hard to probe whether or not that’s more so when big religious conferences are going on. Stories people in the industry tell are interesting, but unreliable without supporting data.

  44. First Baptist Hammond….shouldn’t these people be out door to door soul-winning or working the bus routes for Sunday on the weekend?

  45. Oh dear Lord! I really looked like that?!!!! I know the skirts 24/7 made me look ridiculous, but did I really look all stepford like that?

    To clarify: I grew up there, lived all my adult life there until somewhat recently. Recognize almost everyone in that video. Some were even friends at one time. Currently in recovery, doing ok most days, but this just sends me over the edge – so much so that I finally found it necessary to comment. On my bad days, I wonder what my problem is, why I am struggling so badly, this is just one more ginormous reminder why I have not yet quite found my ballance yet.

    On a positive note: this video makes me ever so happy that I was always camera-shy and never allowed myself to participate in any of their awful propaganda/ commercials.

    2. I recognized almost everyone too. Even while the people were speaking I’d see people walking in the background that I knew. I’m just over a year out of fundyland.

  47. Anyone notice that both the young couples had a big space between their bodies? (1:33 and 2:32) Especially the first young couple. That poor girl was actually leaning away from her husband!

    Makes me think of the celebrity photo examinations that are in the Cosmo magazine–where they analyse posture and body placement to see if the celebrity couple is still in love or about to break up or whatever (and the analysis is usually right!!).

    The gap between the bodies supposedly indicates a lack of trust and a desire to withdraw and not be touched by the other person.

    And in both cases, it was the woman leaning away, or gently sawying (pulling) in the opposite direction so her body wouldn’t touch her husbands.

    🙁

    Almost all the other older couples were tightly smashed together, with no space between them at all.

    1. Well, that is clearly because the Marriage Retreats actually work. The young couples who just discovered them are still aloof and not intimate, and the older ones who have attended them faithfully and put the godly wisdom into practice have developed wonderful marriages.

      (where is the vomiting smilie, I can’t seem to find it)

      2. Yeah, I wonder if it’s a testament to the fact that most Fundy marriages have really bad sex for the first ten or so years, like Naoimi said earlier. 😕

        2. Ha ha Hanna, you’re making so many typos, I’m tempted to make a joke about “typing with one hand” that would be germane to this conversation.

          But I won’t.

          (Or … I just did!)

  48. I get the think about the skirts, I didn’t discover the joy of pants until I was 17, but why the ‘eck do they have to be long skirts – for bowling yet?

    And isn’t it pathetic that the big fun night out is bowling with a bunch of other people you’ve never seen before.

  50. John Wilkerson (speaker in blue sweater) is one of the nicest pastors I’ve ever met and a good friend.

    I am His beloved totally owned this thread. My wife and I have learned so much about each other and had way more fun post-IFB.

    2. Have no idea who that is, but THANK YOU for pointing out the occasional rose among thorns. Fundies might be “whacked out” as a group, but some are wonderful people who are simply overzealous.

      Thanks, Tom.

      1. You are right. There are some occasional good people among the IFB group. I always figured that they simply do not realize that there is a big world out there, or they are socially trapped in that man worshipping movement.

    3. hear hear…I agree..Wilkersons are great people and Polished you are right, there are many good people , they are just enslaved to that movement. It reminds me of the movie, The Village. The intentions are good but the lies it took to enslave these people in fear are crazy.
      Tom K..glad you and your wife are enjoying marriage post IFB..its awesome eh?! 😀

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