163 thoughts on “Looking For A Few Good Men”

  2. Wow! An ad for volunteers! God have mercy on the people who encounter the volunteers that show up for that cattle call!

  3. Hee hee.. not a paying job opportunity. Meaning: We’ll work your butt off and not pay you a dime.

    And I love, “with home in order”. And you KNOW they’d go over to the house and check to see if actual home and/or wife/kids are in order.

    These pastors have seem to have forgotten one thing in their ads that would be absolutely necessary…. “Willing to worship MMMEEEE!!!”

    1. These pastors have seem to have forgotten one thing in their ads that would be absolutely necessary…. “Willing to worship MMMEEEE!!!”

      And that is the truth!

      1. Did you see the ad listed for the “Youth Pastor” where they were paying $100 per week and providing a single-wide trailer, utilities, and food pantry?

      2. Dear God. I was stationed at Sheppard AFB in Wichita Falls a few months ago. My husband’s still there. Should tell him to go crash the party.

      1. I’ve only very recently stepped away from the IFB; we’re still committed to the fundamentals of the faith, just not all the foolish traditions of man about dress and music and associations that have become so integral to the IFB. But it seems to me that there’s so many of them! Maybe it’s just because all my connections are in those circles, but I see a page of advertising like you mention or I read page after page of ads in the Sword of the Lord, and I feel that I’m almost all alone in seeing the pride and legalism in the IFB. I feel like there’s just so many of them and so few who disagree with them (while still believing the Bible).

        1. You may be in a distinct minority of fundamentalists, but in the larger world, you’re in the vast majority (even among Christians).

        3. Trust me, you are not the only one who notices. It just takes spending time outside of it for a little while to make you look around and wonder how you missed it before, because it’s obvious.

      2. YAY!!!! We have real phone numbers now! 😈 😈 Now somebody call them and set them straight.

  5. “Not a paid position” Wow, you want all that and you won’t pay them. Good Lord! I was thinking that the pay would have to be out of this world to entice me.

    1. “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.”

      Jesus Christ of Nazareth

      1. But this is the working out of their salvation (and sanctification) which is their reasonable service. A little suffering for Jesus builds character! Some of Jesus’ best work was done pro bono… now you don’t claim to be better than Jesus do you? Work for the night is coming! Jesus’ table is full but his fields are empty! (pass the fried chicken please) You have a duty to serve the Lord, He gave everything for you it is your duty to give at least 10% for him. Now you wouldn’t want it to look like you took this job for the sake of filthy lucure would you? Hummmm? 😯

        2. Don, that’s some really impressive work, there. Darrell, I recommend you bestow Don with an honorary doctorate in Old Paths Interpretation and Exposition.

        3. Mark I am truly humbled by this honor. I’m just happy I can be a blessing to those who are struggling. It’s my calling to be a Hur and help hold up the arms of the weaker brothers and sisters. I just want to let my light shine to a dark and hurting world. I want to give my best to the master, and keep my accounts short so that I can get in touch with Him at a moments notice. I want to furnish my mansion in heaven with only good things. The closer I get to him the closer he gets to me and I know he loves me because he has blessed all the ministries that I have started, and I might add worked my self sick with, and he has been so good to me because of all those I have helped and brought into the kingdom.

          (I hope everyone knows me well enough to know this is oozing satire and sarcasm. 😯 )

        1. I saw the abscence of Champaign as well. Am unfamiliar w/ Faith, but kind of surprised they made the list. Maybe they go door knocking & have bus?

      3. The church I grew up in isn’t listed. But since it’s a GARBC church, it’s probably too liberal for them. 😉

  6. Why did you black out the address? Clearly they are proud of the facts.

    Makes it harder for me to apply…

    Wait a sec. My doctor says that a side effect of my God given ADD is all the piles of shtuff I have on every table. The fifteen half-read books on top of the night table, a year’s worth of bills and receipts on top of my desk. The half dozen unfinished projects around the house.

    Well, I could make the staks look as orderly as possible. Yeah, that’s it.

    1. I highly endorse redacting contact info. I probably would’ve redacted city/state/church name, not that you can’t go find, but it reduces their visibility somewhat, and more importantly keeps you from essentially publishing a “wanted dead or alive” poster style thing ala fundies do to abortion doctors, and hopefully keeps them from getting enough mockery to start commenting on here about how persecuted they were by Darrell. Cause it’s always everyone else’s fault in fundamentalism.

  7. Oh wow. . .I just finished reading the full page of ads in the link that Big Gary so graciously posted. You would think it was a joke, but it’s not. “We offer no salary.” “I have education (not that it matters).” “Church provides a double wide trailer.” “Seeking God’s man.”

    Definitely holding to the ancient landmarks.

    1. I looked at the dude holding the Bible and thought ‘parody’.

      Then I started reading and thought, ‘this looks real’.

      Then I got to the pastor’s name being Bishop and thought, ‘ha, you had me going Darrell: parody’.

      Then I saw the blacked out phone numbers and thought, ‘why would Darrell do that? maybe it’s real’.

      Then I started into the second add and thought, ‘this is too wacked out to be real.’

      Then I got half way though and thought, ‘no, this is too wacked out to be a parody.’ 🙁

    1. Really, that is sick. There are limits to humor and you definitely crossed the limit. People have been devastated through such things, and as a youth pastor myself, it is offensive that you would generalize all youth pastors into the same boat. You sound like a Fundamentalist 😕

      1. Unfortunately that’s not necessarily humor. Too often it is a horrible reality.
        Also, please don’t feel that you need to lecture people here.. I got enough of that in my former life.

      2. Well, I don’t think he generalized anything. As a matter of fact, if you would care to look into it, many a Fundy Youth Pastor has transgressed in that fashion. And besides, how does that make him a “fundamentalist” or sound like a fundamentalist?

        You know, there is just something about your comments that really rings hollow….can’t put my finger on the “why” yet, but I’ll figure it out.

        1. But we gottem married bfour the bebby came. What else matters? Lot “premature” births in fundy families, especially the first child.

        2. “If you would care to look into it, many a Fundy Youth Pastor has transgressed in that fashion.”

          Plenty of examples have been given on this site alone. And I don’t think the name Chad Gleiser has ever been invoked here, but I’m certainly willing to share if someone needs yet another example of this Fundy trend.

          And FWIW, you’re right. Something about “Biblicist’s” comments rings very hollow. I have a hunch, but I don’t care to give a certain troll any more reasons to say “I told you so.”

        3. Mark,SDG, Smith, First, the reason I made the fundamentalist comment was due to the fact of the generalization. That is a negative trait of “Fundy’s.” Second, there are plenty of problems in all of Christianity with this. Believe me, maybe you run closer to these circles, but there are plenty of these instances under every sub-group of Christianity. Third, yes I do know of the Gleiser of who you refer. That was a sad situation and people were deeply hurt. Some still live with the baggage, although they have repented and asked forgiveness. That is what sin does. It destroys and hurts people. I do get upset when people make light of those sins and will not back down on this one. Fourth, the hollowness that you are speaking of may be that I try not to use sarcasm and tear others down. Another trait of Fundy’s.

        4. “There are plenty of problems in all of Christianity with this.”

          So maybe we can agree that the position of “youth pastor” is an unbiblical, unnecessary, dangerous position that should be abandoned altogether. Replace it with nothing. Incorporate the “youth group” into the rest of the church instead of perpetuating the church’s disturbing age-based disconnect that does nothing but destroy families in the name of behavior modification.

        5. That is definitely an option some pastors have gone with. I would disagree on the un-biblical part. I believe non-biblical would be more accurate. There is nothing in God’s Word that would rule out a youth pastor position in a church as wrong. I do think that the “youth group” can be used in un-biblical ways as well as biblical. Obviously, you have a strong opinion on that, and I can respect that.

        6. So then I’m sure we can also agree (as your comment essentially says) that the youth pastor office is a tradition of man.

        7. Mark, I’m wondering if you can elaborate on the Chad Gleiser situation. I was present at BJ when he had to leave. I remember his wife had a new baby, and that everything was sudden. Was he actually a youth pastor at the time, too?

        8. @richard

          Mark, I’m wondering if you can elaborate on the Chad Gleiser situation. I was present at BJ when he had to leave. I remember his wife had a new baby, and that everything was sudden. Was he actually a youth pastor at the time, too?

          I was there then too…The rumor I heard was that he was screwing a teenage girl from the BJ Academy. I can’t say that for 100% sure, but you can bet he didn’t leave as suddenly as he did for something minor. Don’t you remember getting called to one of those “men’s dorm meetings” late at night the night he left? Chad was a fundy of the fundies. I remember how, when he was a hall leader, I actually watched him wait outside one of my friends’ rooms and listen to what they were saying. He apparently heard my friend say “crap, sucks, and freakin” and got him in trouble for it.

          The day he left, I remember seeing him and his wife and baby loading up in the car earlier that day (before the meeting at night). His wife just looked sad. After I found out what was going on, I really felt bad for his wife and kids. I have no sympathy for Chad, because he never had any for others as he was climbing his way into the Dean of Men’s office, but I did/do feel for his wife. I wonder whatever happened there…

        9. @Biblicist,
          The said “hollowness” doesn’t come from the non-usage of sarcasm or other devices, it comes from a hunch of inauthenticity of the speaker. I believe Mark, SDG as well as myself have figured you out…as a matter of fact, your last sentence was very telling in that it had hints of self-righteousness sprinkled throughout its tone. Also, the tone of your responses lack experience or in fact, portray a certain idealism that frankly makes me puke. At one time, there was a certain TROLL who darkened this board who in fact, tried to come off as the IDEAL “fundy” by trying to be everyone’s friend while trying to reinfect a Fundamental sentiment into the group…much like you’re doing. Furthermore, this TROLL has tried to reinsert himself a few times by using different names or NO NAME AT ALL…like yours and while under this pseudo-moniker, he dispensed advice to people that are in the throws of recovery and pain…like you have…without invitation. So, in closing, go back and “pastor” your flock.

        11. Mark Thomas, How about some other traditions of men, in no particular order.

          1) Wed night prayer meetings
          2) Choirs
          3) Sunday night meetings
          4) A raised platform for the MOG to mount, and then a sacred desk to stand behind to pontificate to the rest of us sinners
          5) church membership
          6) clothing requirements for church
          7) calling a building “church”
          8) greeting folks with a right-hand of fellowship
          9) taking an offering
          10)nurseries
          11)altar calls
          12)1,2,3 repeat after me evangelizing

          I guess this list is good for now. Btw I’m not saying that anything is wrong with these “traditions” and some I even like. But I always thought it was funny/ironic when the MOG would thunder out against them “vile catholics” and their man-made traditions, and then I would look around at all of our and wonder what’s he thinking?

        12. Our church’s sign says “The Meeting Place of” followed by the church’s name. One of the things that made me want to go.

      3. Sadly, it happens a lot more often than you would think. The first youth minister of the baptist church I grew up in caused a major scandal by dating one of the kids in the youth group (she was barely 15 at the time IIRC). In all fairness, he did marry her the minute she turned 16 (her parents weren’t happy about it but didn’t feel they were in position to object; him being a jr. pastor and all). I moved out of my hometown not long after that and left fundyism for good a while later so I don’t know what happened to them. I hope she dropped him like a bad habit once she’d grown up enough to realize what a mistake she’d made.
        After that, they church set up a new policy, youth pastors had to be married or engaged with the wedding a minimum of 6 months away.

        1. Yeah, it was [redacted] daughter, but I didn’t know what was going on, or how they got to know each other. Yeah, it’s his wife I really felt for. Especially just having had a baby. Like there’s not enough to deal with already. And a move? And the fact your husband cheated on you? And that you r now blacklisted from BJ? It’s always bad timing. But really bad timing on his part.

          I think his wife was actually a pretty good looking girl. If I remember right, they were hs sweethearts. So sad.

        2. I don’t think that naming the victim in this debaucle is a good idea at all, especially considering that whoever the girl was (I know the family you mentioned, but I don’t know 100% that you are correct), she was underage. Expose Chad Gleiser for his preying on a young girl, but don’t expose the poor girl!

          Darrell, is there any way you could remove the name in the post above? Not even secular news reporters mention names of underage victims in sex cases.

        3. So, was this girl under 18? And how old was this guy? And let me guess, we never prosecuted the statutory rape that it was?

      4. @ Biblicist. I got a laugh from your hypersensitive overreaction to my statement. I could write that your relay sounded like something a fundamentalist would write, but I’m not going to throw the other “F” word around.
        Yes, I know most youth ministers are not having affairs with their students! But affairs between youth ministers (and even teachers from both public and private schools) and students are quite common. I once attended a fundie school. I would estimate the school had 40 teachers on staff. In the six years I attended the school, six teachers were fired for dating students, including one female teacher.
        I had a co-worker who once had an affair with her youth pastor. This is how it happened.
        The problem arises when you have YOUNG youth minister (or teacher) right out of college. He is living in new town where he has few friends. Even if he is married, he still might fell alone, because he married out of peer pressure and not love. He did not date or meet enough women to find the right one, because of the isolation of his fundamentalist upbringing.
        He is soon surrounded by teenage girls; many may only be 4 to 8 years younger than he. They are part of the same generation. They listen to the same music; watch the same movies and television shows. Some of the girls in his youth group might find him attractive. He is better educated and more mature then most of the teenage boys in town. He is also from another town and that also makes him more interesting then the local boys.
        Soon he meets a girl in his group who shares the same interests as him. And she now has a mature man who takes an interest in her life, something she may not be getting at home or church. They develop an emotional bond. Soon they are secretly dating and sleeping together.
        In my option, having 22-25 year old men working with 15-18 year old girls is not a good idea.

        1. I was in a church where the two youth ministers (one a woman and one a man both married to someone else) ran off together and divorced their spouses.

        2. For us it was youth pastor who was married with two kids and a very young (just out of HAC)elementary school teacher. Not to be out done a year or so later by a teacher at our Christian day school and a high school student. Oh yeah, the teacher left a pregnant wife and two kids at home while out on these little affairs.

          Wow, I didn’t realize how ofen it happens in IFB circles until we got out. It is true, once your out you begin to “see” things and wonder why you didn’t “see” it before. For me it has been a mourning process…not a mourning for the church we left but for the time I wasted.

    2. C’mon,

      This is beyond the pale. Biblicist has a point. Keep it classy.
      And we laugh at Schaap making granny slap comments?

      Isn’t this tantamount to saying most homosexuals are pedophiles?

      MOST Youth pastors–the overwhelming vast majoirty..say 90 % or more DO NO SUCH THING. I’ve been around for awhile in both fundy and non fundy circles and it is rare to even HEAR of such….and know of none personally.

      1. “MOST Youth pastors–the overwhelming vast majoirty..say 90 % or more DO NO SUCH THING.”

        Because I’m totally going to accept the word of the “overwhelming vast majoirty” of the profession in question.

        2. Doesn’t matter, because that isn’t the point I was making. Of course youth pastors are going to agree on their own collective innocence. I’m sure the “overwhelming vast majoirty” of hospital billing departments in the mid-90s would have said that 90% of hospitals weren’t intentionally overbilling Medicare recipients. The recently-elected governor of Florida would probably tell you he regrets taking their word for it.

          The point is that the opinion of the party held in suspicion generally isn’t considered a credible source.

        3. But I don’t think Salty was taking into consideration what other youth pastors were saying. He was speaking of his or her personal experience just like myself, you and everyone else on here.

      2. I’ve been around for quite a while myself, and I have heard of a good many youth ministers/youth pastors/youth counselors doing such things. I have no idea what percentage they make up– only a small percentage is my guess– but it certainly happens, and while it’s more the exception than the rule, it isn’t exceedingly rare.

        1. I’ve worked in church music ministry for a chunk of my adult life. There’s all kinds of temptations out there for anybody who does church ministry. You have to work really hard sometimes to not give in to those temptations.

        2. I’m sure this is especially true when you have a position of power in a targeted setting. I keep going back to Lord Acton’s Axiom:

          I cannot accept your canon that we are to judge Pope and King unlike other men with a favourable presumption that they did no wrong. If there is any presumption, it is the other way, against the holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority: still more when you superadd the tendency or certainty of corruption by full authority. There is no worse heresy than the fact that the office sanctifies the holder of it.

          That power over people, even if it is only perceived (and the IFB/Fundie universe propogates that perception) power is heady stuff, and there are few who will not at some time succumb to the seduction of that power. Maybe not in a physical act or adulterous manner but they will use it to push their own agenda at some point. It may be, that is why they sought the position to begin with. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority: still more when you superadd the tendency or certainty of corruption by full authority. Noble intentions do not excuse the means employed to achieve the ends one desires.

        3. Very interested Don. Power dose seem to corrupt, or at the least offer a great temptation. Perhaps this is why Christ taught that His leaders were not to ‘exercise authority’ in the traditional sense. The greatest among us are to be the least, the chiefest the servant of all.

        6. Any church, regardless of denomination, is foolish to hire a young single man to be youth pastor. It’s a recipe for disaster and the stories of sex affairs are so common I can’t believe churches still do it.

          And sometimes the stories aren’t true but there is little or nothing a single young man can do to defend himself against a determined man eater.

          It’s a bad call no matter what angle you look at it.

  11. I love the fact that they emphasize a Baptist baptism. Does that mean if you were baptized by immersion in a non-Baptist church, you didn’t have a Baptist baptism?

    1. We spent a whole week on “Alien baptism” in Doctrines 4 @ West Coast. Apparently any church other than IFB that baptizes by immersion isn’t correct. They call it a submission issue. So anyone from a Southern Baptist church, who applies for membership at Lancaster Baptist can expect to be asked to be baptized again to “identify with the churches doctrine.” Too bad that’s not in the Bible anywhere.

      1. Apparently any church other than IFB that baptizes by immersion isn’t correct.

        Or any IFB church not from your particular camp. Ugh.

      2. Soli Deo Gloria wrote:
        We spent a whole week on “Alien baptism” in Doctrines 4 @ West Coast. Apparently any church other than IFB that baptizes by immersion isn’t correct. They call it a submission issue. So anyone from a Southern Baptist church, who applies for membership at Lancaster Baptist can expect to be asked to be baptized again to “identify with the churches doctrine.” Too bad that’s not in the Bible anywhere.

        ********************************************

        Just giving witness to being taught the exact same error from Paul Chappell at Lancaster Baptist Church. He used to use phrases like “a like-minded church” which gave him a lot of latitude to reject someone’s baptism.

        Even as a “sold out” Kool-Aid inbibing member, that teaching never sat right with me.

        Also, dating someone that was not from a “like-minded church” was definately and strongly frowned upon – even if they were a Christian.

        And what a division that created in families who had members attending different churches!! 😥

    2. Jenni, I saw that too. If you think about all the baptisms in scripture they occurred in natural bodies of water, creeks,lakes etc. So to be biblically correct in baptism you need to be outside in natural bodies of water. Many IFB’s do, but kinda makes me wonder why its not “doctrine” with them as they “supposedly” adhere so close to the scriptures.

      1. seems like i’m a pharisee of the pharisees then – i was baptized in a river. i’ll remember to keep this trump card handy 😎

    3. My mom had to be re-baptized in the Baptist church because she had been baptized twice in the Methodist church (once as an infant and once in a rededication of her life to Christ) and apparently neither count to God- I mean, the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church.

      1. I can’t speak for the IFB, but for Methodists, any re-baptism is a heresy (although Methodists rarely use the word “heresy”). Baptism is completely and permanently efficacious (no matter in what church it was performed), so any subsequent baptism of the same person has no effect.

        1. Catholics too. I hadn’t been baptized when I converted, but other people in my “class” had, and they weren’t required to be baptized again. And we’re known for being pretty picky about some things. 🙂

        3. Same with Lutherans. Any Trinitarian baptism is accepted (ie, no Mormons, JW’s, Oneness Pentecostals etc.)Baptists – fine.

        4. The idea that the efficaciousness of Baptism (or any Sacrament) is dependent on the moral rectitude of the administrator (whether you consider it a means of Grace or not) is highly offensive and very Donatist. Yet sounds about par for the IFB course.

      2. I was baptised in a non-denom church when I was 9, but when I became a member of the IFB church I go to now (which I am contemplating leaving) they said I had to get baptized again. I was 18 at the time, and their reasoning sounded “good” to me. The analogy the assistant pastor used was that of a Starbucks and any coffee not gotten as Starbucks wasn’t officially their coffee. So apparently, by their reasoning, I wasn’t “officially” baptized. Like I said, I was 18 and did really know much about the differences between IFB and the rest of the Christian denominations; if I knew then what I know now, I wouldn’t have become a member at all. But I think it goes to show the kind of ridiculous reasoning these people can use sometimes.

        1. Like someone said, too bad it’s not Biblical.

          But, what does the Bible have to do with it all anyway?

      3. I think that’s just stupid. It’s not Biblical and it’s just flatout stupid.

        That’s like telling someone to cross a line. Then, saying they didn’t cross it right and they have to do it again.

        Stuuuupid.

    4. And there is no mercy shown at all to those who were not baptized by immersion. My church, Anglican, is horrified by the thought of being baptized more than once.

  12. check out the link for Kyle…..This add prompts MANY questions…

    PASTOR SEEKING CHURCH:
    My name is Kyle Wilson. I am currently Pastoring in Russell Springs, Kentucky, but I believe that the Lord is beginning to impress upon me the desire to move back to my hometown of Cincinnati, Ohio. I have been Pastoring for the past 4 years. The Church is a great church, no problems, but I believe the Lord is calling me out. You can get to know me at http://www.pastorkyle.bravehost.com On this site you will be able to see my resume, read my testimony, listen to some of my sermons, and basically get to know me a little better. You can contact me at kenbuckeye79@yahoo.com I am looking for an Independent Baptist Church to Pastor.

    1. I clcked on Kyle’s website and found the ad banner at the top of the page was “Get Athena Pheromones for More Affection”. 😯

  13. PASTOR SEEKING CHURCH:
    40 y/o pastor searching for new place of service. My ministry has been primarily helping build up existing works but I am open to anywhere God is leading. Full-time or Bi-Voc could be considered. I am Independent, Fundamental, and KJV. I have over 12 years of pastoral experience. I am not legalistic or a
    dictator. My personality is relationship driven and I am compassionate and a soul-winner. Churches I have pastored have all grew from next to nothing to around 75 people. I am married to my one and only wife ** for 15 years and we have 3 children ages 6-12. I am educated too (if that really matters). BA – Baptist Bible College – Springfield, MO Master of Ministry – Crown College – Powell, TN Master of Education – West Coast Baptist College – Lancaster, CA DMin – Temple Baptist Seminary – Chattanooga, TN If interested please email me at: *****yahoo.com

  14. PASTOR SEEKING CHURCH:
    I feel God’s calling to start a ministry in a new state, preferably one without an extradition arrangement with California. I was saved at age 3, called to preach at 4, and baptized in the Pacific Ocean at 6 (which makes my baptism better than yours, since mine was in a bigger body of water). I have been married to one wife, Bathsheba, for 24 years, and have had the same Biblical concubines for 19 years (Esther), 17 years (Naomi), and 13 years (Ken), respectively. Never went to college (too worldly), but I have memorized the Song of Solomon, many verses of Proverbs, and 5 and half Psalms. I believe that the 1953 Classics Illustrated Version is the only inspired, infallible translation of the Bible, and that believers should read it for themselves so I can tell them it means whatever I want it to mean (subject to change according to circumstances). I also believe in Separation, mournful dirge-singing, and wearing brown socks.
    Looking for a faithful, financially generous, Bible-believing congregation without nosy elders who ask to see the account books. Preferably located near casinos and Bingo parlors. Paying jobs in the church for my brother, uncle, cousin (once his parole is granted), and personal hairdresser are also a plus.
    If interested, send praise and supplications to whoneedsbooklearnin@juno.com

    2. The sad thing about the extreme IFBs is there are so many places for these types of wolves to hide. Seriously, can’t we all name guys like this?

      My fundy pastor’s brother and father slinked off to new ministries after they tore up their churches with adulteries. Both of them actually damaged the same church at different times!!!

  15. What I have always wondered – and now more so looking at these ads…Why did you resign your position? How is it that you felt led to move on? I have never felt led to quit a job without another inplace, unless the circumstances were that dire. And if I did, well I’d never blame it on being led of God, I’d jsut say the job sucked.

    1. You want the biblical answer or the fundamentalist answer?

      The biblical answer is that separation is for the advancement of the gospel, as it applies both to salvation and sanctification. It is first of all personally separating from those things in life that stand between you and God – hampering your relationship with God and your development of a Christ-like mind. Secondly it is recognition of (and if things go far enough ecclesiastical separation from) those who put forward a false gospel, or live according to a false gospel.
      This separation dose not include withdrawing yourself from society in any way, and only benefits evangelism.

      The fundamentalist answer goes something like this…
      We are right and holy, but live in the midst of an unholy world. Since we cannot trust the power of the Spirit within us, we must withdraw ourselves from all temptation and false ideas. We must hide in our compound. But wait… we have to evangelize. So we venture forth from the compound for the express purpose of grabbing people and dragging them back in with us. Or else we just have them say the ‘prayer’ and let them fend for themselves after that.

      1. By ‘fundamentalist’ here I am of course referring to the more extreme brand thereof. I should have used the more SFL phrase ‘fundy-land’.

  18. I was in a church where the assistant pastor was let go because the pastor’s daughter married a preacher boy she met at Trinity Baptist College in Jacksonville, FL, and he needed a job. The assistant pastor had three children to provide for, and it just never set well with me. Later the pastor packed up his family (including extended family) and moved to another town letting the church know he was bringing his own back up crew.

        1. I really try not to be negative to any ministries that preach the Gospel. I will say that I think the family ties at BJU can produce some negative things. On the other hand, I was specifically talking about churches. The difference being that at BJU they have a volunteer board and many other paid Admin. that are not family. This keeps them more balanced within their circle. I know I am going to get blasted by that comment, but I can take it 😉 If you would look closely, I think BJU has made alot of large moves forward to be culturally relevant. Look for yourself.

        2. BJU is a family business – ask anybody who’s ever worked there. The board gives them a sense of legitimacy, but, step out on your own, and they’ll kick you off the board. Just cause the guys don’t have to wear ties during the day and the girls can wear jeans doesn’t make them culturally relevant.

    2. The pastor at my former fundy church in Greenville, SC fired the music director on trumped up charges so he could give his lesser qualified and marginally talented son the job. It was all pretty rotten. The pastor is a BJ grad–guess he learned his lessons well. The thing about Greenville churches is that there is such an active revolving door that the current church probably doesn’t even know or remember this happened. I, however, can’t forget. This could just never happen in the type of church I am going to now. I LOVE not being a fundamentalist.

      1. This sounds suspiciously familiar, though they weren’t trumped up charges, they were “new qualifications” (which the music director didn’t meet), and it wasn’t the son of the pastor (who are just kids), but the son of a prominent church family (who didn’t take the job). Did we go to the same church in Greenville?

  19. “I will do what ever it takes to serve God and a Church as God directs my life. I have been married to my wife for 20 years which received her calling to support me and be a true pastors wife the same day I was called.”
    😯
    Whats a “true” pastor’s wife? What does “whatever it takes” mean.
    These ads are seriously unreal.

    1. Never ever found one verse in the Bible where a woman is “called” to be a pastor’s wife.

      So many young girls are limiting their lives by believing this. Under this belief they have to refuse to date anyone who is not a pastor or training to become a pastor. An unmarried “called to be a pastor’s wife” young lady getting a real degree and starting a career would be told she is failing to trust God. She is now relegated to attending an unaccredited kawlege and only dating preacher boys.

      Such damage is done with this faux belief! 👿

      1. My parents used to pray that my sisters and I would grow up and marry pastors or missionaries. My mom was distraught when none of my brothers wanted to be pastors. It was such a horrible message to teach. =\

        I married a soldier instead. 😉

      2. A family member ran afoul of this particular desire on the part of a girl’s parents – she didn’t care that he wasn’t a pastoral studies major, but they broke it up. Both of them were pretty roughed up by the whole thing. He married a different girl with less pedigree (read “high control parents”) and then ironically enough, became a pastor! LOL (although the original girls family wouldn’t approve of his decidedly non-fundy church so maybe alls for the better anyway)

    2. Called to be a Pastor’s wife is so idiotic, I don’t even know how I would react if someone were to ever tell me that. Wish there was a way to stop the cycle.

      I don’t even wanna think of the perverted stuff he probably means by called to be a preacher’s wife.

        5. Wahdid I say? Wahdid I say? If PB’s are called to preach, and Fundie girls are called to be PB’s wives… then PB’s wives are Called girls. see how simple that is 😯 😎

        7. Big smiles! I somehow don’t mind being the guy that “accidnetally” called preacher’s wives street walkers. All in jest.

      2. During our church mission’s conference, the missionary wife testified to our kiddos during school chapel. She told the students that while in college she had fallen in love and the young man had proposed marriage. However, her mother reminded her that, at the age of FIVE, she was called to be a preachers wife. (Her husband was a pastor turned missionary.) So she refused the marriage proposal and waited for a pastor to come along and propose to her. WHAT! She found him and of course they have a slew of kids.

        When my son came home from school that day and told me her testimony, I responded thusly, “At the age of five, you wanted to be batman, but not to worry your father and I aren’t holding you to it.”

        1. I believe I wanted to be a king at age five, but I changed my mind somewhere along the way. I’m back to being a commoner now.

    3. I wasn’t planning on being a pastor’s wife! I do know how to play the piano, but I’m REALLY bad at cooking.

  20. Why is there so much emphasis on ‘One Wife’? Surely that’s the default position unless you’re a Mormon fundamentalist.

    1. I took that to mean “only one wife ever,” not “one wife at a time.”
      In other words, anyone who has divorced and remarried need not apply.
      Single people are also highly suspect, since they may be either gay or into that weird Catholic celibacy stuff.
      I’m not saying I agree; just that I think that’s what they want.

      1. Oh yeah, they’d get questioned if they didn’t have a wife or at least a fiance, because all the preacher’s know that all that tension backs up if its not taken care of.

        Sorry, but its true. You oppress a poor fellow long enough and well….

        2. Trying this again! Catholic, clogged, or crucifiably gay is the best start I can get on an alliterated outline for this!

        3. Rob – Now that I have a Doctorate of Alliteration, let me help you out 😀
          I like the crucifiably gay, but I think you could work in celibate rather easily into your points. 😆

        4. @Scorpio very nice! I just now saw your change to celibate, and it’s much better. Most fundies wouldn’t understand the clogged reference.

      2. That sure stinks for someone who’s been widowed! Not everyone’s spouse dies of old age. 🙁

      1. Like. This really did make me laugh out loud. This post should win some kind of award. Thanks! 🙂

      2. Then, theoretically, a ministry could get two for half salary if a wife has two husbands. Like in “Paint Your Wagon.” 😕

  21. Those qualifications don’t quite sound like Paul’s:

    Titus 1:5-9 “…appoint elders in every town as I directed you (6) if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. (7) For an overseer, as God’s steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, (8) but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. (9) He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.”

    I Tim 3:1-7 “(1) The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. (2) Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, (3) not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. (4) He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, (5) for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church? (6) He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. (7) Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.”

    Hmmm… what do you guys think?

  22. I guess they never think of why it is they have to look outside of the congregation for leadership….uhm…uhr….I mean….that is…..”unthinking yes men.” 🙄

  23. Darrell — I wasn’t sure where to put this — but here is as good as any. We met about 13 years ago when you were still a staunch fundy (or your family was, at least). Your family came to visit my church while you were on furlough. If I remember correctly, you and your brother came down to jr. church and criticized/ruined the substitute teacher’s lesson. It wasn’t that great to begin with. I also seem to recall one of your brothers writing to my sister for some time — trying to convince her that it was God’s will for them to start courting. How far we’ve come since then.

    2. you and your brother came down to jr. church and criticized/ruined the substitute teacher’s lesson

      I don’t remember the incident but that completely sounds like me. 🙂

      I was a bit of a jerk.

      I also seem to recall one of your brothers writing to my sister for some time — trying to convince her that it was God’s will for them to start courting.

      That I don’t recall.

      1. Darrell: It is the ONLY “approved” way for a fundy boy to chase skirts. He must tell girls, it is God’s will, for if it were just, “Boy she is pretty, and I like her, clearly that would be out of Gid’s will.”

        My brother, Mel, suddenly passed away this past June at 51. He fled fundamentalism like the devil was chasing him years before he passed. He left long before I ever had the courage to question anything. He used to tell me how he used to say things like that because it was the only way dad would let him date. Mel is also the one who coined the saying, “The IFB is about as Independent as the CIA. There is nothing truly Independent about the IFB,”

        Sorry folks, just feeling nostalgic today and missing my big bro Mel. This is the first holiday without him. He was the only one who did not treat me like I was trash or needed saving after I left.

  25. Amazing that they place so much weight on being married, and being married only once, but never specify a blameless life, (like adultery is excusable, seducing kids in the youth group can be overlooked, but not divorce).

    2. About 10 years ago, I saw a posting on a “Christian Singles” line that the young lady (translation: her father) stated in essence: “No one accepted who has been married before.” When asked if that applied to widowers (of which I was at that time), there was apparently a bit of gulp and “back-pedal”…

      Still a scary ad, tho…

  26. It’s their way of weeding out “Ruckmanites” (ie, those baptists that are of another camp and believe a divorced man can still pastor), without explicitly saying so.

    Remember, the Pastor is superhuman. He does not fold to the stresses, temptations and struggles of the common man, for he is above them all. His testimony consists of being saved, baptised and called (usually before the age of 10) and the length of marriage is always a big bonus (the longer he has been married, the more spiritual he is). There are no victorious testimonies in the Baptist Pastors life, because he has conquered all through the power of self. His testimony consists entirely of what he has accomplished or plans to accomplish for God and not what God has accomplished in him.

    1. Yep, the Pastor: The Lord’s annointed! The Baptist Superior, His holiness, The sanctified super saint. The Grand Master sinner Blaster. Who is like unto the Undershepherd? The Pious Pulpiteer!

      Put a crank handle on the pulpit so he can grind out the music his maironettes dance to: “Dance my little monkeys, Dance!”

      He-man with a hymnal, “I have the Pow-wah!”

      Oh, but to call this super being out for the dictator and master manipulator he is… and you have submission issues! You are the one in sin against the authority over you. Because that is why the M-O-g is there in the first place, to rule over you and wield authority over his sheep. And, you do know you are sheep, because he will not let you forget it. He is the “under”shepherd and you are merely sheep! You are not of the royal family, you are not a priest in the Priesthood of all believers… you are subjects, and sheep and goats. It is the Pastor who validates your position in Christ! He and he alone is allowed to speak the word of
      God. He has the sole voice in all matters Biblical and you question God Himself when you question His man in the Pulpit. When the M-O-g is behind the sacred desk he is speaking for God… in fact, he is god when the spirit is upon him!
      “So sayeth the Shepherd!
      So Sayeth the Flock!”

      Had to get that out before it hurt me.
      *standing down from DefCon 4* 😕

      2. This, IMO, has a lot to do with the fact that most fundy churches are either independent non-denominational or the denom (Having grown up in a GARBC church I can use them as an example) maintains a strict hands off policy. Add to that the fact that most fundies grow up being taught that it’s wrong to question the MOG (mustn’t disrespect the “Lord’s Annointed”) or just ask questions in general and you have a situation where there is literally no accountability for the pastor; to the church or to anyone else. Sadly, I seen more than one case where the pastor treats the church as his own private fiefdom and god help the sheep who steps out of line. The sheeple are so intimidated by his absolute authority that they simply cannot stand up to him and anyone who does will find themselves out of the church in short order.
        “Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
        Lord Acton

  27. I’ve lurked on this site for some time but never commented until now. I was raised in a conservative, Baptist home, home-schooled on Abeka/BJU, went to Fundy U and all that jazz. I only attended FU for 2 years because they canceled my major and gave me 3 DAYS to choose a new program (kid you not). I gave up and moved back home before I decided to transfer to a “liberal” Christian college. Talk about culture shock. I realized quickly that I spent most of my life having others tell me how to live instead of being accountable for my own decisions. Needless to say this lack of personal boundaries got me in a situation(s) that took so time and counseling to get out of.
    Now, it’s as if I’m relearning everything over again for the first time. Someone on here recommended a book “Tired of trying to measure up” which I got on Amazon. It was what I needed! My goal is to really learn what and who God is, before I move forward in my faith. On that note, I have to say I much appreciate PW comments on here. It is a breath of fresh air to be able to see God in a new light.
    I’ve also been struggling with the concept of denomination/church home issue. I no longer want to identify myself as a Baptist, though I believe in most of the doctrines they espouse. (Not all of the legalistic crap though) However, when I go to the non-baptist churches (usually non denominational) I find myself turned off by all the fluffy sermons (one even had a bubble machine in church) and praise music (still like the hymns). It’s like I’m not sure where I fit anymore. Regardless I wanted join in and voice my thoughts. At the very least, I know I’m not alone in this.

  28. I’ve read over the comments here many a time and I know it’s way after the fact but one question I do have is that pastors/youth pastors sleeping with those under them (no pun intended) happens in every single religion in the world but in forums I never see it mentioned that it’s all over. At least here someone did point out it wasn’t just IFB.

    I don’t have a problem with just because it isn’t outlined in the Bible having the program or doing it. Alot of the above mentioned things are good but just don’t say it’s being done for Biblical reason if it’s not expressly outlined in the Bible.

    I grew up in a youth group and loved it. It went through some crap growing up and had it not been for my youth group I’m not sure I would be here right now.

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