Doctrine, Outreach

“What if?” Guilt Trips

260 Comments

“For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: “It might have been!”~John Greenleaf Whittier

“What if?” is a very special kind of fundy guilt trip because comes from nowhere, contains nothing but imagination, and can be used on anybody about even the most innocent of activities. Consider…

What if instead of buying that candy bar you had instead given the money in the missions offering? What if that very dollar was used to print the tracts that went to deepest darkest Africa and converted the local medicine man to Christianity and caused revival to break out across the entire continent? But alas, you chose the candy. So now we’ll never know.

What if instead of sleeping in on Saturday you had spent an extra hour praying for your lost family member? What if that snooze button was all that was standing between their soul and eternal damnation? A little sleep, a little slumber, and now you’ll always have to wonder if you could have done more. You probably could.

What if you had dug deeper, pushed harder, or fought better? What glorious opportunities may have been had! What souls could have been won and empires built! But alas, poor craven soul that you are, you did not.

Guilt trips on the Subjunctive Highway. They’re a thing of beauty.

260 thoughts on ““What if?” Guilt Trips”

  2. Guilt trips on the Subjunctive Highway.

    Win.

    It took a long time for me to get out of this habit of thinking, and I doubt I’ll ever entirely shake it off. “All things work together for good” suffers perhaps the most shallow interpretation in the canon. Learning to trust God in the wild, apparent chaos of billions of people ricocheting off each other through millions of choices, thousands of times a day is something I learned after Fundamentalism, not because of it.

  3. Like the “serious Wednesdays” post over on another similarly-named blog, this one hit close to home. Maybe “convicting” isn’t the right word, but this showed me some baggage that I didn’t know I was still carrying. Wow.

    1. I always tell people wallowing in guilt to get out of the pigpen and run to their Father. They keep thinking He’s like the older brother – resentful, holding grudges, judgmental – but the Father is waiting with outstretched arms, ready to throw a party for us and clothe us in robes of HIS righteousness!

      2. PW,

        Hey I’m a fan, you cut to the heart of the matter and bring intelligence and a heart for people, bible knowledge, but the best is that you bring Love. I want you to write a book on grace, can’t have too many of those.

      4. Amen! Preach it sister! The only thing, and it may be nitpicky, is that not only is God waiting, He is running towards you. For fundy’s coming out of fundydom I think that the book “What’s so Amazing About Grace?” by Phillip Yancy, should be a required read. (As an aside, while there are some things that I don’t agree with in his book, he really opened my spiritual eyes up to a whole new way of thinking.) His illustration at the beginning of the book about the runaway daughter is incredible.
        Hah! Here it is.
        http://www.christianitytoday.com/iyf/hottopics/faithvalues/6.42.html

        1. @Eric, you’re absolutely right! Isn’t it incredible? “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.” It reminds me of a Christian song from many years ago, called “When God Ran”. Oh, how He loves us! Oh, how He humbles Himself to extend Himself to us! How grateful I am!

        2. The Prodigal God by Tim Keller is awesome too if you can get your hands on it – little book, easy to read, but absolutely amazing. He talks in there about how totally counter-cultural it was for the patriarch of a family to run – it would cost him reputation – and yet his love for his son was so great he did it… It gave me a much greater appreciation of the intensity of God’s love for us and joy and delight in us than fundyism ever had. http://www.bookdepository.com/book/9780525950790/The-Prodigal-God

        4. @Kiana – That is definitely a favorite of mine. All of Tim Kellers books are awesome.

      5. Pastor’s wife – you need to become a pastor yourself! 😮 I always enjoy both your wisdom and your wit.

  5. The worst “what if” question I was subjected to was:

    “Would you still do what Jesus said if there was no heaven?” (Like when you died, you stopped existing)

    A number of us were honest and said no. We pointed out that the promise of eternal life separated Jesus from the other gurus, that if we got very sick there wouldn’t be any reason to needlessly suffer about it (just like animals), and that this would seriously take away from the proof of Christ’s divinity.

    But no….we got blasted and called horrible people because we disagreed about some “what-if” made up doctrine. 😕

    2. I have seen this posed by atheists, but never fundamentalists. I think its a legit question and goes to the heart of “carrot on the stickism.” Fact is, and many Christians don’t like this, but many atheists manage to raise good families, stay in marriages and have a social conscious without any reward/punishment system to hang their hat on.
      Christianity has a problem with shallow self interest.

    1. What if your kids get poisoned candy and have to go to the hospital after they’ve been kidnapped by alien-worshippers who wanted to use them as human sacrifices?

      How are you going to live with the guilt when you KNOW you could have been in church where they would have been safe?

      SFL: Assuming the best will happen if you do what they say and assuming the worst that can happen if you disagree with them.

    2. We are getting together with other Christians and going out trick or treating. We use Halloween as a holiday to draw our families, friends, and our community together. It would be nice if Sunday night church was as effective, but it is not. The primary reason that we stopped participating the the Sunday night church tradition is that just about anything else done together is more effective.
      My children’s knowledge of the Bible and God has not suffered due to this lack of church participation. The leadership of the Church we now attend seems to have the same opinion because they do not have Sunday night services.

      1. We’re getting rid of our Sunday PM service. We still have a couple people though who’ll go to a nearby church for THEIR evening service. I always think, “Don’t you have family to spend time with? Don’t you want to sit down and TALK with your kids over a board game before they’re grown up and gone? Don’t you want to invite another family into your home and laugh and chat and get to know them?” But I guess they just want to sit in a pew and listen. Maybe they think head knowledge=closeness to God.

        2. I wish we were there, but there are just too many programs (AWANA, etc.) that keep us tied to the Sunday evening service. However, the Wednesday night service has long since lost its luster for me, and I usually only go if they need tech equipment set up. Baby steps, I guess…

        3. We are planting a church and only meet Sundays at 4pm. Its actually a wonderfully convenient time to meet with tons of opportunities for fellowship. Every meal of the day is open for us to have people over or go out together.

        4. @Mark, blessings on your church plant! I glanced at your blog and had to laugh at “Wait, what?” #6 is so true with young people, but #4 and 5 I’ve seen and it’s SAD.

        5. We have a pm service, but it’s optional. Most of the people who go have to work Sunday mornings. We also have a 7:30 a.m., an 8:50 a.m., and an 11:15 a.m. No guilt served at any one of them.

        6. Our church just has a Sunday morning prayer service and worship service so that the rest of the day is free to be with family/friends or fellowship with others in the body. Then we spend our Wednesday evenings in small groups discussing applications of Sunday’s message. It is the belief of the leadership and the church body that we can really only effectively digest one really meaty sermon on Sundays and that the rest of the time
          is better used to reflect and really think about it rather than try to cram two other messages in per week. My husband and I have found this set-up it to be much more conducive to spiritual growth and getting to know others in the body.

        7. @Laura, that’s what my husband started thinking. We were having Sunday School, Sunday AM, Sunday PM, some people had Monday night Bible study, and Wed. night. That’s a LOT of head knowledge without a lot of time to put it into practice. We’re headed toward the model you describe, only our small groups are held on different nights to fit people’s schedules.

        8. Sorry to hear this… many of my best memories are of Sunday night services. Some of our people have to work Sun AM, and only come on Sun PM.

          I suspect that families that don’t spend time together now aren’t going to do it with Sun PM services canceled.

        9. @Guilt Ridden, I too have some good memories of Sunday PM, but we’re really small and we’re having maybe 20 people out and that’s just plain depressing.

  8. No mention of the “What if instead of walking down the aisle tonight, you have a fatal accident on your way home. One so bad that your family members cannot recognize you.”

    I wish I would asked my Sunday School teacher “What if fundamentalism is wrong?” I didn’t have enough nerve after asking “Where is this in the bible?” during one of his spills on the first Gulf War being the end of the world. I can’t imagine how fundyland was after 9/11 – I had long left.

    1. What if The Revelation of John does NOT belong in the bible. What if it were interpreted as what it really is (history) and not as a prediction of future events.

      Some what if questions are valid.

    2. I have wondered that for a long time. Or if not the Apocrypha, what about the other “Lost Books of the Bible?”
      There are several Gospels that are not included. If memory serves, they were excluded because of “the earth’s four corners, the four living creatures mentioned in Revelation, the four winds, and the four covenants mentioned in the Bible” -Irenaus 180AD

      This is certainly not the strongest argument I have ever heard. Especially for something so serious is the inclusion or exclusion of books from the canon.

      1. Catholics have always accepted the deuterocanon – Tobit, 1 & 2 Maccabees, Judith, Sirach, Baruch, Wisdom.

        It’s unfortunate that the Protestants, following the example of Martin Luther, took those books out of the Old Testament.

    3. yeah…the canonization of scripture discussion will shake the confidence of even the most devout.

      1. It’s one of those things that you end up having to take on faith isn’t it. My take: The canon, while containing the inspired, is not, itself inspired. I’ve just studied too much that says it was simply a group of men giving their opinion over a period of time. Determine in faith though what you believe and feel free to stick to that!

  11. Excellent post! And like the picture shows, another result of constantly asking “what if” is not only guilt but also indecision. Instead of living with confidence, we become paralyzed, terrified lest we choose wrongly and shipwreck our whole lives (or someone else’s). One side: fear, guilt, hesitancy. Other side: trust, joy, confidence. Guess which one I WANT? Guess which one I tend towards? 🙁

    1. Ditto. That’s something I’ve been struggling with *a lot* lately, thanks to all those “what if?” guilt trips I’ve been subjected to my whole life. 🙁 While I generally consider myself pretty far removed from fundamentalism, this is one area where I *still* struggle daily with its aftereffects. Darrell, thanks for posting this.

    2. Then don’t act like you don’t know me when you pass me on the streets of hell. Be sure to wave!

      1. It will be hard not to notice each other, we will all have SFL Reader tatooed across our foreheads.

        1. In that case, I’ll have so much stuff tatooed on my forehead, you won’t be able to read it.

        1. I wonder of Timothy struggled with stress-related knots in his stomach, because right now I’m thinking that wine might just help the knot in my own…

    4. Then God is a monster, period. If fundamentalism is right, then there are so many of us who never had any hope in the first place. Fortunately, that’s not something I worry about anymore now that I am free to examine all sides of the issue.

      1. HAAAAAAY-men! The Gawd of IFB religion would be a bigger monster that that of the God of Calvinism, which is the creed I subscribe to, BTW! After all, it’s the fundies that are always bashing the Calvinist God as a monster and a tyrant.

  13. What IF “Go ye therefore into all nations…” Really meant only the Roman empire? Did the Apostles/Disciples REALLY have North and South America in mind? Paul may have been on “missionary trips” but it was within the context of the Roman empire.

    What IF “World” only meant “inhabited world”?

    Just asking “what if”… ❓

  14. I realize that fundies will use the Bible to prove this; but, does anyone know the history of this fundy tactic? Was it widely used before Frost’s “The Road Not Taken” published in 1916? Was this a poetry/Bible merge to morph Bible truths?

    1. Jim,
      Robert Frost wasn’t nearly a “Christian” as we understand it…he was more a Unitarian/Existentialist. If Fundies pervert a good poem for their use, I’m not surprised. As a matter of fact, MOST well known New Englanders were Unitarian in their understanding of Christianity.

    2. Interesting! I would still think it would predate the poem though. The poem seems to just deal with regret and an acknowledgment of the human condition: we cannot take every path, explore every option; we must limit ourselves and each choice takes us further from a different result had we made a different choice.

      But note his response: “I shall be telling this WITH A SIGH.” It’s just a sigh! Whereas those who ask us the “What if” question, usually imply that you’ll be tormented, in anguish, destroyed in spirit if you make the wrong choice! There are no ends to the depth of guilt you can feel. I don’t think the poem’s narrator feels guilt, just a quiet sense of the necessary loss of possibilty with every choice we make.

      1. I read the emotion behind the sigh as purposely ambiguous. So is the choice between the two roads. It’s a testament to the idea that we simply have no way to see all the possible outcomes.

        1. You’re right. It could be just a gentle sigh of longing or it could be serious regret. “We simply have no way to see all the possible outcomes.” Exactly. But many in the IFB world want you to weigh everything and always make the “right” choice so nothing bad ever happens to you, because if something bad happens, it PROVES you made a wrong choice. (Got in a car accident? You should have been home cooking dinner for your family? Oh, you had to buy groceries for dinner? Well, you should have planned ahead and bought the groceries earlier. You didn’t have money to buy more groceries last time you went? That’s because you don’t handle your money wisely and your husband should have picked a bigger and better church to pastor so you’d have more money. Ack!!! You can’t win!)

        2. Or maybe he’s sighing with satisfaction knowing he’d had a good life but realizing that that choice ages past had made all the difference. I’d always thought of it as being a bit regretful, but it’s definitely ambiguous!

        3. @PW, that line of reasoning is so familiar to me! I realize now that that is probably why we were never shown any compassion. “You should have known better. You can always avoid all calamity. Since you did not avoid it, you are getting exactly what you deserve, and you should learn a good lesson from this.” Sadly, all I seemed to learn was that there was never a legitimate case for compassion. I certainly never suspected God of being compassionate. I don’t remember one single act of compassion toward me in my first 20 years. That continues to be my daily struggle: rising above the cynicism of dashed expectations of even a hint of compassion from “good, godly people.” I am trying to meditate more consistently on “The Prodigal God.”

        4. @Staci, isn’t it amazing? Jesus’ very first words in the temple as He began His public ministry, His weeping over Jerusalem, 1 Cor. 13 — the WHOLE Bible shows God’s compassion. It’s incredible that people who claim to be following Christ show so little. Heartbreaking.

      2. I would agree: EVERYTHING at one point or another is unknown and the only way to clear that up is through experience and Fundyism wants to deny that choice and experience. As a thought, most every authoritarian expression of Faith wants to deny choice and experience.

  15. Sometimes I think that half the people in fundamentalism have an anxiety disorder. People go on meds for thinking like this.

    I should know—I have an anxiety disorder and I’m pretty sure that’s why I still struggle so much with fundy-based doctrine, even though I’m second generation ex-Fundy. It plays to the way I think!

    1. Plenty of people I know from my fundy past are on anxiety meds (me included) – I think fundyism exacerbates it (or just causes it if it wasn’t part of their makeup to begin with). I know it did/does for me . . .

    2. Interesting! Currently I am pondering whether I want to take my counselor up on her offer to prescribe Zoloft for me to take. I know not everything can be blamed on Fundy-ism, but I also know darn well that living a life in which you are forced to make every tiny, mundane life-choice moral or immoral, and thus make everything high-stakes, has at least partially brought me to this point. Living in the shadow of the “what if” statements of fundamentalists is hard enough; living under my own, which are now pretty much subconsciously generated by my own mind, is torment.

      In the OCD workbook that my counselor is having me go through, one is basically taught to reverse those patterns of thought: instead of “This decision will change my life forever and since I’m a sinner I will doubtless screw up,” the book encourages realistic thinking patterns. Deciding where to go to college, which church service to attend, what length of skirt to wear to church, what time to get up in the morning, etc. is not going to make or break a person’s life, but it had gotten to the point where I was not recognizing that.

      My life is getting better, though; every day now I find new pleasures in my quest to “let go” of “the way things ought to be.” As a friend in my support group observed the other day, “People need room to be in the process of growing. There was no room for that where you came from.” I thank God that I have found a place to be changing in Christ without being judged, finally.

      1. Becky,
        It sounds like you have a good counselor. I will say that Paxil changed my life for the better years ago. The standards of Fundyism *can* cause anxiety to the point that simple choices are no longer SIMPLE. I know also that OCD isn’t a fun thing to deal with so, I would say, chin up! Go forward! From what you’ve written, you seem to be in a good place. 😀

      2. Thank goodness your counselor doesn’t use Adam’s “Nouthetic Theory” of counseling (it’s based on aggresive confrontation…i.e., “your sin is causing you to have these problems” and the counselor proceeds to bash you up side the head with the biggest KJV he or she can find at the moment…well, not really…but I think you get the gist of what I’m saying 🙂 )and it has no sense of relationship with the client, no encouragement and no nurturing.

        What’s also good is that she is dealing with the suffocating “shoulds”, “oughts”, “have to”…She is right, you need room to grow, to be what and who God made you to be. I don’t even know you and I’m very excited for you! (Counseling is my field…just finishing with my BS in Psychology and going into my Masters program for Professional Counseling).

        1. Aww. Thank you so much for your kindness!

          I am glad that you are going into this field. I used to think that psychologists and counselors were for “liberal crazies.” Now I have gotten to the point where I more than just “tolerate” psychology– I actually have a great respect for it.

          Congrats on your degree, and good luck with your master’s! I am sure you will make a great counselor. 🙂

      3. Fundamentalism is designed to draw out the nit-picky, detail-orientedness, OCD-leaning, introverted sensing (Si), Melancholy tendencies. Those who are naturally that way thrive in this environment (usually, ISTJs).

        1. Tony, yes, they thrive in that environment, until they discover how bankrupt it is. Then follows the despair as they realize they’ve invested years in perfecting a lifestyle that makes them incapable of thriving outside “the environment.” Ask me how I know….

      4. Beckyboo, I wish you all the best on your journey. I myself take a low dose of Lexapro (started in Feb. 2010) and find that it helps me quite a bit, and the side effects only occurred the first week or so I started taking it and then quickly tapered off. It helps me quite a bit.

        I got a lot of pressure to make the RIGHT choices around junior high age. The RIGHT career. The RIGHT husband. The RIGHT church. The RIGHT house, and town, and … oh, it’s exhausting! Fortunately I have since discovered a God who is BIG enough for all the options and has amazing plans for me, no matter which path I take!

  16. The biggest what if is probably this one. You are arguing over standards or is this a sin or whatever and they come out with. “What if I’m right and your wrong.” The insinuation is that if they are right then you would be in sin or probably not even saved so better to be safe then sorry. But what if I’m right, then your whole standard is moot. 😕

    1. MR this is an excellent point. You are correct that this one is used and abused constantly. Ouch! In fact, I just recalled that I have used it–Lord have mercy. 😳

    2. What I said above. If the Fundy is right and I am wrong, then I never had any hope in the first place because I’m not one of those “acceptable” people in Fundyland and never was no matter how hard I tried.

      But…

      If I’m right and the Fundy is wrong, s/he does have hope and freedom within reach.

      1. How sad that church and Christian school made you feel “unaccepted.” I’ve seen it happen too, and it’s SO anti-Christ! Jesus showed love and concern to all, especially the “outcasts” of society. Look how he treated women and children, prostitutes and Samaritans.

  17. Just when I think you can’t possibly have anything new to talk about Darrell, you pull out another gem! 😀

    There is a flip side to this, however, which I have also heard repeatedly thru my fundy years. Here’s an example: If I wouldn’t have spilled coffee on my shirt, I would not have had to change my shirt, which made me leave for work two minutes later than I normally do, which resulted in me hitting every single green light on the way in to work. Isn’t God good, Amen?

  18. What IF: Sermons only consisted of things KNOWN without a DOUBT in bible texts minus all the speculation(s), assumption(s), imagination(s) and manipulation(s)….?

    Answer: Churches would be empty because all prejudice and nationalistic hype would be evacuated…there would be no unnecessary building programs and Christianity would probably be what it is supposed to be.

    1. I love that even though God KNOWS me completely – all my sins and failings – He STILL sent His Son for me. He STILL loves me! 🙂

  21. I still find myself doing a lot of “what if”, but now it’s what if I had been given a fighting chance. What if my stepfather had lived? Would he have put me in another school, or at least made sure certain problems were nipped in the bud? What if someone had noticed what was happening in the school and reported it to proper authorities? What if someone at the church’s children’s home had been successful with a lawsuit against the church? Those are my “what ifs” now.

  24. WHAT IF I hadn’t wasted several years of my life in Fundie Land…I’d have my PhD. in Psychology and still young enough to practice…..grrrrrrr.

      1. It would be “God’s Providence” that caused me mental and emotional turmoil for 20+ years? “God’s Providence” is a man-made concept that is nothing more than a talking point amoung the initiated. If its “good” it’s “God’s will” if it’s bad it’s either “God’s providence” or the persons disobedience….without the element of control and intimidation, Fundamentalism would go the way the Edsel.

        1. Your god must be pretty small then.

          My God knows what He is doing. He controlled my past, He controls my future. Everything that happens to me is and was allowed by God and it all works together for my good and His glory.

        2. No, this has nothing to do with the “bigness” of any given God. This discussion has to do with the manipulation of men. Methinks your are a Calvinist…Fundamentalist or no, your observation is of no real consequence considering your probably thinking that you would show up and take on all the infidels on the board and be God’s hero. Nonsense poopy pants. By your reasoning, it was “God’s will” that children are violated by “Men of God” and families are destroyed by “Men of God”….this board is not a board to banter about one’s particular idea of theological truth…these are healing people, it’s that simple. 😯

        4. I think you missed my point. Dismissing what I said only because I might be a Calvinist, a fundy or whatever else and my motivation is driven to become God’s hero is lame and not a good argument.

          I do agree with you that the discussion that we are headed into is too big and pointless to have at this moment. I’m sorry I even brought it up 😐

        5. “Nonsense poopy pants”

          Such brilliance in 3 words. I think this can be used in sooo many ways. Example:

          Fundy: You weren’t in church Sunday night because you wanted to spend time with your family. You are not right with God.
          Me: Nonsense poopy pants

        8. @Michael,

          You said:
          “….this board is not a board to banter about one’s particular idea of theological truth…”

          I see. Well, in your opinion, what about SFL in general? Is this a website where folks can indeed banter about one’s theological ideals, or is that forbidden. Are visitors like myself who are not dyed-in-the-wool Fundie-haters supposed to not comment if it doesn’t com across as totally anti-Fundie?

          I mean, it is obvious this is an anti-Fundie site. (Which is neither here nor there for me, as I have no dog in this fight.) But I do so enjoy reading some of the knee-jerk comments, and am at times prompted to opine myself.

          Does this mean I am not allowed to? I mean, the subject of Calvinism was brought up, which I have come to understand is somehow a strictly Fundie concept or something, is that it? Is the concept of the total Sovereignty of God strictly a Fundie thought?

          Oops, sorry. I appear to be getting off-topic and am speaking about theological stuff.

          After reading countless comment on several of the site’s threads, it appears to me that this is not really an open-forum, but it is moreso simply a place for Fundie-haters to come and complain or laugh together about how much they hate Fundamentalism. Not that that is a bad thing! Not at all! I have certain cliques that I belong to that are extremely “invite only”. No worries.

          Thus far I have seen many attacks on Fundamentalism, but not much along the lines of people offering an alternative to Fundamentalism. Again, not that that is necessary, no. This is a free website in a free America. You all can say whatever you wish, of course. Rock on!

          But it is tedious and insipid to read, again and again, some of the comments made by the same commenters, over and over.

          Wait. It just dawned on me as I was typing that last sentence. I get it now. I do. This is not a website designed to edify. It is a website designed to tear-down.

          I can respect that.

        10. “Thus far I have seen many attacks on Fundamentalism, but not much along the lines of people offering an alternative to Fundamentalism.”

          Um, really? Then you haven’t read very many of the posts.

        11. @Donald – I have to defend the doctrines of grace. I would hate people to think that there is something fundy about them.

          A true fundy is not a calvinist because “reformed theology” has a God who is bigger than gimmicks, schtick, programs, and rehearsed evangelism (which fundys love.)

          Calvinists believe Christ is the head of the church, not the pastor and fundy pastors don’t like to give up power to anyone.

          One last one thing, fundy theology seems to be very “man centered” which is the exact opposite of Calvinism which believes in the drama of redemption, a story being told in which we are not the heroes but Christ is. Most would agree that you cannot be a true fundamentalists pastor unless you are the hero of every illustration that you tell and your moralistic preaching the answer to what ails the world…not the gospel.

          There are a thousand differences. I just figured I would list a few.

        12. Donald Borsch Jr. Others have been people who have come onto this site, who have been shocked at how antagonistic the reactions of some people have been. Unfortunately they provoke the kind of reaction that would happen in a rape victim if she (or he) bumps into some completely innocent t person who looks, dresses, sounds and moves like the person who assaulted her. The person may be completely innocent and so is completely bewildered. Too many people on this site have been spiritually ass-raped. So they could possibly have a strong reaction to anything or anyone that reminds them of it. Do you get what I am saying?

  25. “Your (petty) disturbance in chapel today, during the (informal) call to the altar, might have caused someone to not hear the speaker’s invitation clearly. You might have to answer to God one day, because you caused that person to miss out on the salvation message, and that person could be in Hell, because of you.”

    I’ve heard a pastor say something like that before, but the above description was from a seventh grade teacher, in a school which stated that the parents of a student must be born again Christians as a requirement for enrollment. I’d imagine they would have many opportunities for altar call.

    1. hehe. Then you have this what if question: What if God did not elect that person to be saved and that person was going to hell anyway whether your did or did not disturb in chapel.

      never ending what if spiral.

    2. I remember a female fundy teacher teaching children that if they were not kind to a visitor that visitor might not get saved and it would be partially their fault. 👿

  26. “What if…”

    I wish I could understand this. I do. I mean, I know folks struggle with it, but for me, as a son of God, I simply cannot bring myself to consider pointless musings that do not matter.

    I find it particularly amusing, (but also saddening), to read and hear about what some Christians get bound-up in, as if they are pursuing the wind or trying to grasp smoke.

    “Guilt trips”. Indeed. And who is the greatest accuser the world has ever seen? Who makes “guilt trips” into an art form? Exactly.

    *sigh*….ah well. Anyhoos, this was a thought-provoking article, but I am surprised so many folks related to it.

    Donald in Bethel, CT

    1. Well, nonsense poopy pants….Donald, maybe what you consider a waste of time can not bind another’s conscience. You stopped your blog yet, you came to this one to express your disapointment in others who do not share your sense of duty?

      Yes, Satan does manage to make some feel guilty, etc., etc. However, if you would spend the time to get to know what this blog is all about, you wouldn’t be so quick to put these people on a GUILT TRIP about what they feel is important or spend their time.

      1. Michael,

        Looking for some attention from me? Buy a puppy instead.

        I went to Facebook and added SFL to my “like” list, and lo and behold, it said that SFL is a “humor site”.

        So color me stupid for thinking this was a legit site at all. I get humor, parody, and satire. I thought this site was not so. However, I see now that it is.

        Joke’s on me! Yikes!

        You said:
        “However, if you would spend the time to get to know what this blog is all about, you wouldn’t be so quick to put these people on a GUILT TRIP about what they feel is important or spend their time.”

        LOL! I’m putting a GUILT TRIP on people? LOL! Guilty dog barks first, Michael. Now go be a good boy and sulk in your helplessness for a while longer. The adults are talking.

        I swear, I have met the most interestingly disturbed people on this site! I freaking love it! Well, except for “Scorpio”. He/She is actually courteous and common-sensical.

        Peace out, homies. I have stuff to attend to! 🙂

        1. Mommy, Don called me a ‘most interestingly disturbed person’ WAAAAAAA! SOB! BOO HOO!
          Tons of laughs Don. Keep posting, you made my day 😆

        3. @Scorpio,
          Can’t I’m still sulking why the adults are talking…besides, I to disturbed to know that someone needs a waaaabulance.

        5. “Looking for some attention from me? Buy a puppy instead.”

          Why would he need the puppy? Clearly you’re giving him attention! Of course, the puppy would be more enjoyable.

          It would appear that Donald has taken John’s role, now that John has so kindly apologized.

    2. @Donald, your post reminded me of what my dad would say when his wife or daughters would bring a problem to his attention. Us: “Dad, we can’t open the front door. The handle appears stuck.” Dad: “I don’t have any problem with it.”

      Praise the Lord that you have not struggled with feeling accepted by Christ. (I’m not saying that sarcastically. I mean it.) You say you’re surprised that so many people related to this post, but then you show no compassion for them. You just say, “Guilt trips are from Satan [I agree] so get over it.” We’ve had preachers spend hours telling us that if we’d just given a little more, prayed a little more, done a little more, God’s will could have done, but because we were weak and lazy and uncommitted, people are going to hell. We didn’t come up with this on our own. It’s been drilled into us. And we’ve come to realize that it’s not true. We ARE to serve Christ, but out of joy not obligation. And His will WILL be done even if we fail to obey (see Mordecai’s statement to Esther where he tells her that God will save His people even if she doesn’t go to the king). You should be glad that we’ve learned this, because it was NOT the message we heard growing up in our IFB churches.

      2. Thank you, PW, for explaining why some of us can relate so well to the “life-long guilt trip to nowhere.” You say we had this stuff preached at us for hours. I say, “I wish it had just been preachers, and had just been hours.” For me it was every authority figure in my world: parents, pastors, S.S. teachers, and school teachers. I had no other world but fundyism. I did not know there was life outside of it. I heard it from the pulpit, then came home to fundyism’s “other booming voice,” my dad’s. Then, on Monday I heard it from every teacher. Can a child even detect fresh air when all he/she has ever inhaled is toxic fumes?

        1. All of your kind words have been SO encouraging to me! Thank you, guys!

          Staci, wow! That IS overwhelming! In contrast to the heavy load of guilt we were taught, notice what Jesus said: He came to “to preach good news to the poor. . . to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners.” Isaiah 61 goes on to say “to comfort all who mourn, and provide for those who grieve in Zion— to bestow on them a crown of beauty instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, and a garment of praise instead of a spirit of despair.” That’s so beautiful! THAT’S the God we serve!

          Steven Curtis Chapman wrote, “Out of these ashes… beauty will rise, and we will dance among the ruins.
          We will see Him with our own eyes!” We WILL dance among the ruins! We WILL breathe fresh air!

  27. Wow, this one hit close to home because I still feel this way about things that I did or did not do. I still feel guilty for not giving all the money that I had in my wallet to a missionary one time. I have never been able to shake that one.

    1. I still get the guilty attacks over a great many sins I committed years ago. I know they are forgiven, but if I think back to them, I begin to condemn myself, and I also get really sad, wondering how the other person involved ended up emotionally and spiritually.

      1. Me, too! I wish I’d been more patient with my children; I wish I’d played with them more or taught them more wisely. All of a sudden, I’m drowning! Then I realize that once again I took my eyes off Christ! I’m trying to learn that He has forgiven and redeemed me and He offers a future and a hope. He will restore the years the locusts have eaten. He remembers our sins against us no more. I carry my regrets and leave them at the foot of the cross. Realizing how much I COULD have done but DIDN’T and then realizing that Jesus STILL loves me is so wonderful!!! I’m STILL loved!

        1. PW, I’m starting to think that YOU should be the preacher! To this day, if I think about taking vacation somewhere, I wonder if we shouldn’t be visiting a missionary or a church in the area while we’re there. Seriously. How liberating to remember that even Jesus took some time off now and then from His primary calling. How freeing to realize that I don’t have to try to compete with His example. How much more do I recognize God’s sovereignity when I recognize that He would never let a mistake of mine keep others from the cross.

        2. I’m so glad that He came to set us FREE!!! “How much more do I recognize God’s sovereignity when I recognize that He would never let a mistake of mine keep others from the cross.” – Oh, so true! I’m going to rest on THAT next time I feel ineffective and useless! (And thanks for your kind words!)

  28. Guilty. I used the “What if we (as a church) used money spent on (fill in the blanks) toward (insert noble thing here)?” line about ten years ago. I blame Schindler’s List as inspiring me – the scene where he’s weeping because his gold party pin or his car could have saved more Jews got my attention.

  29. The guilt trip assumes that God’s being able to do anything depends on us, yet we claim to believe that God is omnipotent. It’s another one of those cognitive dissonance things.

    1. @beth,

      Exactly! So glad someone pointed that out! How many of our “debates” are rooted in our supposing that we have something to do with The BIG Picture of God’s Sovereignty?

      Rock on, beth!

  30. I still think of questions like this, even to the point of nightmares. Even out of fundyland, I have the habit of asking for salvation repeatedly because I’m always afraid. “What if I didn’t mean it enough?” I want to believe so badly, but no matter how hard I’ve tried I still have (and have always had) doubts. And then I think, “What if I wake up in hell because I couldn’t force myself to mean it enough?”

    “What if I’d tried a little harder to walk with God? What did I do that I always felt like my prayers bounced off the ceiling?”

    “What if I’d acted a little more peppy teaching that Sunday school?”

    As a teen it was, “What if I’d found a better way to handle disagreeing parents? Would I have made them prouder?”

    I suspect this will take a long time to go away.

    1. Emily: One thing that helps me get through those times is that Fundamentalism did not teach me things that really would have helped whatever it is I’m remembering succeed any better. I did not learn interpersonal skills, negotiation, persuasion, thinking out of the box, or anything else that might have helped me break through those tough spots.

      All the “trying harder” in the world won’t help anything if you haven’t learned what is going to work right in the first place. In fact, recently Hubby and I had to do the dirty work of ending a friendship with someone who still has a Fundamentalist mentality. This hyper-extroverted person had abused my extremely shy Hubby to no end in an effort to make him “right with God” (translation: remaking Hubby in the former friend’s image), and Hubby was at the end of his rope swinging between trying to win back his old friend and being ready to kick him into next year. (Hubby, BTW, has Fundy tendencies as well. He just can’t admit it.) When I realized that both of them were doing everything they could and completely failing, and that neither one had either the ability to communicate effectively with the other or the ability to learn such skill thanks to their Fundy mindsets, I had to step in and cut them apart for good. It was a mercy killing of sorts, and I was completely honest about it. Fundy needed to learn a hard lesson about how he treated people, Hubby didn’t need the abuse anymore, and I was tired of being caught in the middle because I was the only one who could even try to communicate with both.

      It hurt because these two should have stayed friends for life. They were so fun together. The bad things they learned in Fundyland and the accompanying inability to see past themselves killed everything. I hope that somehow both of them stumble across something that opens their eyes and makes them get out of their Fundy boxes and actually learn to communicate with people who are different, but I refuse to hold my breath for it. What if we had all learned real communication skills instead of “abuse and separate”?

    2. I feel you there. I’m still in a IFB church because I have so many friends there who semi-understand that there are such matters of conscience in the Christian life. However, I cannot get away from the performance-based mindset. Every time I feel like I am living in grace…..BAM!…I am reminded by something like, “Well, if I don’t work and labor and perform then I won’t be able to receive crowns in Heaven! God has to be performance-based. We draw night to Him, He’ll draw night to us!”

      I’m afraid I’ll be breaking loose from these chains for the next few months/years.

    3. Emily,
      I personally appreciate your heart about this. The good news? Salvation doesn’t depend on your sincerity…no, God responded to your heart. Remember, He knew what you needed before you even asked. It’s unfortunate, but also found within Fundyism is the sowing of the seeds of doubt and because of this kind of preaching people like you (and me at one time)who have a very soft heart are often the victims of this kind of preaching. So, what do you do? Well, what probably has happened is that you’ve been accused of “lack of faith”…this charge in an of itself is nonsense. From the rest of your post it sounds to me like you’ve not been able to measure up to some important people in your life. So, start with understanding that you CAN’T change ANYTHING in the past and the things that you are being accused of in your mind are most likely not accurate in the very least! God loves you and has saved you…rest in that. Each time some accusations and doubt pop up in your mind, it’s past experiences rearing its ugly head and Satan taking advantage of it. I used to be like that years ago and one day I realized that everything I was being accused of was just plain WRONG and I said right then: “whoever you are/whatever you are…this isn’t me and YOU’RE FIRED!” And just like that, it simply vanished!

    4. @Emily

      Please, please, please pick up and read Andrew Farley’s “The Naked Gospel”. I think what he has to say about what the Gospel actually is will free you from so much doubt about your salvation!!! I can’t recommend it enough.

  31. What if I had stayed in fundyland. What would have become of my children.

    *shudder*

    Praising God for freedom.

    1. Amen.. that’s a good what if

      What if I had stayed in fundy land? What would have become of my marriage, my relationship with God, my job etc etc.

  32. “What if” you had kept “soul-winning” for another hour? (and then “or two”), or 4, or 8. Look at Bro X, he visits from 9:00 AM until 7:00 PM – why can’t you give the lord one tenth of what he does?

    Guilt-motivated soul-winning; a sure way to become surly. or insane. or miserable.

    1. “Isn’t the very least you can do in light of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross?”

      Blatant manipulation. “Soulwinning” became such a chore under their abusive system.

      1. A phrase is missing from my post. It was entered between . Weird.

        What I was trying to say was:

        “Isn’t (enter whatever it is fundy leadership is trying to get me to do) the very least you can do in light of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross?”

        1. Lesson learned: Putting things between parentheses works, but greater than/lesser than signs don’t.

      2. “In light of Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross, the very least you can do is ____________” is a saying that I hate. It is NOT found in the Bible, and it implies that we are to, somehow, give God a bit back of the “debt we owe.” We do not owe anything to God because He paid it all in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. Don’t take out your wallet… blow up your balloons! It is finished, and Jehovah wants you to join Him in celebration…

        The hymn “My Life I Gave for Thee” should be eradicated from our hymnals. It is simply heretical.

    1. No, he doesn’t, John. Notice the focus of his attacks: on us, the SFL commenters, not on the preachers/teachers/evangelists who told us that God was like this.

      1) Although many people are responding to this post, he just says that he doesn’t get why people feel that way. He doesn’t because he knows he’s a child of God. Basically, he’s above this because he must be superior in his Christian walk.: “I wish I could understand this. I do. I mean, I know folks struggle with it, but for me, as a son of God, I simply cannot bring myself to consider pointless musings that do not matter.”

      2) Then after he says the above, basically saying anyone concerned with this is considering pointless musings that don’t matter, he claims that he’s NOT giving people a guilt trip: “LOL! I’m putting a GUILT TRIP on people? LOL! Guilty dog barks first.” But his statements are all condemnatory of those of us who write here.

      3)He focuses on the Christians who are caught in this trap, not in HOW we got there: “I find it particularly amusing, (but also saddening), to read and hear about what some Christians get bound-up in, as if they are pursuing the wind or trying to grasp smoke.” It is not funny that people have been hurt by running on the tread-mill of human achievement to please God. It IS sad, but instead of showing mercy and compassion, he focuses on what poor Christians we must be.

      4) He insults people writing here: “I swear, I have met the most interestingly disturbed people on this site!” That’s rude and condescending.

      1. Makes me wonder how he treats people in church, PW. I hope he’s not in the counseling ministry. 😮

        Your analysis of the post is spot on.

        Maybe being in a Fundy church and not getting the beatdown — or at least being able to let the beatdown not affect someone in the slightest — isn’t so great. If nothing else, most of us have developed compassion for others and a sense of justice. I don’t see that in those who are “successful” in Fundamentalism, just like I don’t see it in people who don’t really have a conscience. It’s like “I got mine, forget the rest of you”.

        No thanks, yet another reason I want no part of Fundamentalism.

      2. pw – And somehow I was specifically excluded from the “interestingly disturbed” grouping.

        I always try to be respectful of others in my responses. I’m not sure how much Donald (or John for that matter) has gone back through the posts to really read why we are here and where we are in our life because of fundamentalism. Had they done their due diligence, they would have found out that because of fundyland, I am now an atheist. I say that not to shock or impress anyone and certainly don’t mean to offend anyone at all. But isn’t it interesting that the one person singled out for not being “disturbed”, is the type of person Donald (or a true fundy) would have absolutely nothing to do with in real life. Other than look down upon me and think I was the very essence of evil.

        I must also add that since I have been reading SFL I realize that I may have been hasty in my decision to reject God outright. I read some of the posts (especially yours pw) and I say to myself “there really is a God that cares for me and died for me, regardless of my hair length, church attendance, etc?.” It has been an eye-opening experience for me, making me wish perhaps that I hadn’t “thrown out the baby with the bathwater”. I guess what I am saying is, what if? Who knows what paths lie ahead.

        Enough of me. Now I will just close with my newest favorite saying of all time, nonsense poopy pants. 😆

        3. I, for one, really appreciate your brutal honesty. Sure beats being lied to your face when some MoG says he “loves you” and proceeds to disassociate himself from you at the same time because he does’nt think you “get it” like the “Amen” pew does.

        5. @Scorpio, “I guess what I am saying is, what if?” – PERFECT tie-in to the OP!! (And your last sentence? I’ve got a feeling THAT’S going to be repeated quite a bit on SFL! 🙂 )

          I’m not quite a year outside the IFB, and SFL has really helped me think a lot about the wrong stuff I’d been taught. What if God ISN’T harsh and mean and cold, but instead gentle and compassionate and yearning for us? C. S. Lewis wrote an allegory about his own journey out of faith and then back to it in “Pilgrim’s Regress” as the main character rejects the childhood belief he’d been taught about the mean Landlord everyone pretends to love but are really alternately apathetic toward or afraid of. Eventually he realizes that the Landlord was NOTHING like he’d been described to be.

          ((((Hugs)))) to you too, unless all this hugging from us “interestingly disturbed” people freaks you out! 😆

        6. @Scorpio

          Wow, what a beautifully honest post. A lot of us know how you feel. Personally I leaned towards deism when I left fundyland. I was so screwed up mentally. My entire life crashed and burned right before my eyes and I didn’t even care. I basically threw the baby out with the bathwater as well. I was bitter at any fundy and at God.

          I left my fundy church, left my wife, and left any relationship I had previously with my maker.

          It was in that darkness that God found me and made the first move. He redeemed all that had been broken. He restored broken relationships with my wife and himself and showed me the beauty of His gospel in scripture.

          I pray all of those SFL commentators who are hurting would one day find peace in God. We were made for a relationship with him…without that, life is seems so futile. There is no purpose without Christ. He is the only answer that makes any sense.

          Fundamentalism is not the answer. More Religion is not the answer. Science is not the answer. Living a life for more stuff is not the answer. A relationship with Jesus Christ is.

          I wish you the best as you journey this crazy life. My heart really does feel where you are coming from. It breaks for people who have been hurt by fundamentalism because I know that pain all too well.

          I wish I could convey in words how I feel right now about you. I don’t know you nor probably ever will…but I feel a love for you because, like I said, I have been close to where you are. My heart goes out to you my friend.

        8. The book that really helped me was “Tired of Trying to Measure Up.” There really is a fulfilling life as a Christian when we can get rid of all that horrible baggage we grew up with (which was NOT true Christianity at all).

          Here’s what Amazon has to say about the book. It pretty much sums up how I felt in fundamentalism: “Are you always trying hard, but feel like it’s never good enough? Tired of Trying to Measure Up is written for Christians who live under a deeply ingrained code of expectations and rules that shame them and drain them of spiritual strength. Do you wonder: * Why do I feel so guilty? * Why is it so hard to rest, even when I know I need to? * Why does my religious activity leave me unfulfilled? * Where’s the “abundant life” God promised? If these questions sound familiar, this book is for you. It won’t teach you how to change your behavior or try harder. If trying hard was the key to the victorious Christian life, you’d probably be in the hall of fame by now, don’t you think? This is a message to help you unmask the lies that keep you on the works treadmill and to help you discover the liberation of the gospel of grace in Jesus Christ and the rest that comes through the cross. When there’s more emphasis on doing right than knowing God and His grace, this book points the way to freedom.”

        9. Whew! All I can say to you who have responded is THANK YOU. I was actually getting a little welled-up inside and my eyes started to water as I read your responses. So to continue with the sapiness(?) ((((((((group)))))))).

          Now hopefully your “interestingly disturbed stuff” doesn’t rub off on me 😆

          I do find it amazing that I read about a God who could truly love me for me, regardless. The fundy gid is there to put guilt in your life beacuse of the music you listen to, the clothes you wear, how much money you give, how often you go door-to-door, how many times you are in church a week, how many ministries you are involved in, who you vote for and the fact that your spritual life does not match the pastor or his family.

          Similiar to you Polished Shaft, when I mentally left fundyland, I leaned toward deism (reading Thomas Paine’s The Age of Reason I & II was the nail in the coffin for me) but as I said earlier I went all in with my disbelief.

          Again, I thank each of you for your response. They were all heart-felt and genuine (unlike the experiences in fundyland). I really have so much more to say but I will end here, lest I completely highjack this post.

        10. “The fundy gid is there to put guilt in your life beacuse of….how much money you give, how often you go door-to-door, how many times you are in church a week, how many ministries you are involved in…”

          You nailed it. Look at how all of those things benefit the MOG. He is not looking out for your best interest. He is trying to build his empire, get his baptism numbers up to send to the Sword, feed his insatiable ego, and eventually get invited to speak at Pastors School.

          It’s a shame and borders on heresy.

          May we all be free from the shackles of guilt and bondage brought on by fundamentalism. May we find the eternal truth that Jesus loves us for the unique person that we are. May the gospel of Jesus consume us and deliver us from man centered theology and legalistic religion where God is small and the MOG is nothing less than a baptist pope in a cheap suit.

          Jesus save us from your followers.

    1. And gid blessed Adam and Eve, saying “Behold, I have given thee every bean of cocoa upon the earth, to grind and sugarize as an inheritance unto thy children and thy children’s children. I will multiply thy chocolate bars as the stars in the sky and sand grains on the shore, and thy chocolate bars will possess the cavities of thy enemies. And in thy chocolate bars all the world will be blessed”.

      Chocolastes 13:7 (from a scroll recently found in a cave at Mt. Hershey) 😎

    2. Oh, I’m CERTAIN He wanted you to have SEVERAL…self-medication by Godiva….it’s heaven you know….

      1. Oh no! I abhor those GIV’s (Godiva International Version). I only use the King Hershey Version.

        :mrgreen:

  35. What if Earth is no longer God’s chosen planet? Maybe God picked this as a decoy for Satan, while his chosen planet is doing just great on the other side of the galaxy?

  37. I remember not only the guilt-driven “what if” scenarios about the present/future, but also the dreaded “if only” statements about the past which can be just as manipulative and devastating. “If only you had become a Christian sooner, then you would have been a better wife/mother,” etc. Both types of statements have the potential to rob us of peace, foster feelings of inferiority, and saddle us regret. Quite frankly, there are times I still find myself retracing these counter-productive thought processes. I’m not sure that I’m free yet, but just having the awareness must be a step in the right direction…(I hope)…

    1. You’re so right about the result of this: they “rob us of peace, foster feelings of inferiority, and saddle us [with] regret.” I try to do as Paul said – forgetting those things which are behind and pressing on toward the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. After all, think how many people Paul COULD have saved if he hadn’t wasted all those years persecuting Christians! 😉

      1. Thanks for your suggestion, Pastor’s Wife. I appreciate your Mary and Martha example and your kind words. Sometimes those of us with a wounded spirit are hesitant to search the bible because of it triggering so many memories. Baby steps, right? 🙂

    1. Then I want my own Tardis. He can give me a piece of his and from that I can grow my own. 😎

      OTOH, if he’s real then the Daleks are real too. “Exterminate!” 😯

    2. Awesome!

      Well, except for the Daleks and Cybermen and the Ood and all the other weird aliens…

      I’d rather have a version of K-9.

    3. Awesome (though I’ll have to admit that watching The Doctor late at night on PBS can make for some, shall we say, interesting dreams).

    4. If the Doctor is real, I wanna travel with him! I would want to travel with Ten, though … oh, David Tennant … *swoon*

        1. I’m really hoping that he will be cast as the Riddler in the next Batman movie. Probably not, but I can dream!

  39. “What if….while going to your rock n roll jr high school roller rink party on a prayer meeting night, you get killed in a car accident on the way home (friends mom supplying the ride home, of course) …..? Wow, couples skating to Journey was never so dicey…..Thanks, Mom and Jesus!

    1. It just hit me! This is like Mary and Martha saying, “Master, if you’d only been here, Lazarus wouldn’t have died!” Boy, do we humans have a tendency to play the “what if” game or the “if only” game. How I want to be the kind of Christian who, when disappointing or even devestating things happen, can know that Jesus is LOVE and that I can rest in Him even if I don’t understand.

      1. James 1:1-8 and Romans 8 has done me really good when I don’t understand it at all.

        It is so easy to slip into the “what if” or “if only” game. Also the “why?” game. And then the blame game.

        I think we have all been through hard times and question if this is where we are suppose to be.

        1. So true! I really love Scriptures now. When I was a child, I knew I was supposed to love the Bible, but I didn’t really. But as I have faced life’s struggles, both outwardly and inwardly, I’ve learned what a solace and guide God’s Word is!

  40. I can’t wait for a chance to use “nonsense poopy pants” in a real life conversation. I feel like that really is the end all and be all of discussions. No one can possibly have a retort or response to that! 🙂

    1. To my knowledge, there is no riposte or rejoinder known to man against those fatal words.

      Just imagine if the late Dr. Hyles stood before YOU and screamed “YOU’RE TRYING TO DESTROY FUNDAMENTALISM!” To which YOU reply “NONSENSE POOPY PANTS!” I ask you, WHAT could he have possibly answered you with? ❓ 😆

      1. The only thing he could do would be to walk away in shame, having been totally unprepared for that kind of pwn’ing.

        2. All right! Monty Python humor! Now we’re getting somewhere! I’m tempted to implore all those still captive to Fundyism to “Bring yout your dead!”

      3. This is completely unrelated to anything, but when you were younger, did you ever hear stuff like “The Devil can appear in human form and you wouldn’t even know it”, or even worse “The Devil is probably the nicest person you know”. I stayed away from a lot of nice people lol.

        1. exIFB: Wow, you got it drilled into your head not to trust the nice people too? I was starting to wonder if I was the only one. Anytime I noticed people from other churches actually acting like civilized folk, I’d get told that God wasn’t really working through them so the Devil was leaving them alone. It got so bad I figured out that I could have a loving marriage or a Christian marriage, but not both. Yes, the distrust of the nice went from other churches all the way down into the (future) family. Eventually, I figured out that it was all trash and decided to stay single until Mr. McC decided he wanted to keep me around… but I missed out on so much because I was taught not to trust someone nice and keep putting up with the spiritual bullies.

    2. If Steve Anderson is sane, I’m hanging up my skates and calling it a life!

      I’ve listened to a few of his sermons and it’s like someone drifting in and out of lucid thoughts and speech…SOMETIMES he has a fairly cogent point, but most of the time he’s chasing rabbits and declaring a fatwah on someone! While I’m on a rant…what’s up with that picture? His haircut screams FUNDIE!!! But his facial expression cries HELP!!!

      Alright, I’m done.

      1. The good news is you can always count on Steve (coherent or not) to take short potty breaks! That man NEVER sits down to pee for some reason! It’s like he makes a point of it, or something! 😉

  43. What if I’d invested in Apple stock three years ago? What if Portland drafted Durant over Oden? What if an influential evangelist persuaded most camps of modern American fundamentalists to infiltrate secular colleges rather than starting their own?

    Meh. There’s no end to the speculative substance within substanceless speculatives, but it’s fun.

    1. What if I didn’t sell that Apple stock back in the mid 90’s? Oh nevermind…That is just depressing. 😳

  44. Spent about 2 months recently in constant pondering after wondering what if God chose not to be bound by logic.

  45. What if you stay home from church because of your children, and God takes your children away from you?

  46. You know you’ve left Fundyland when you can say, “God save us from the ‘What if’s’ and ‘If only’s.'”

  47. What if Star Trek is real? That’s been a question in my mind for most of my life! Sad, but true. Judge me. 😉

  48. What if the Mormon fundamentalists (the polygamous FLDS sect at Eldorado, TX) were the ones who were right? 😯

Comments are closed.