@exIFB
I hated the whole “I remember the moment I was saved, if you are saved, you will remember that moment. If you don’t, you probably aren’t savedâ€.
Me too! I never found a Bible verse that backed that belief up.
Yeah, I always thought my conversion had to be like Paul’s. I am sure he remembered his conversion, but he had the Lord Jesus from heaven speak audibly directly to him!
@exIFB
I can remember minute details of my conversion. Where I was, the date, the wording of my prayer and everything. That said, I never saw the Biblical basis for claiming that was necessary. I just happen to have a frighteningly good memory.
@ Robin, “I grew up in the church and I was naturally a quiet, mild mannered kid.” That was me! I wished I had an exciting testimony too, not to thrill people with but because so many preachers said (as you pointed out), “If God hasn’t radically changed your life, then you are not ‘saved.’ ” I asked Jesus to be my Savior when I was three (I also started reading at age 3) so my life didn’t drastically change. One night in college I stayed up all night reading the Bible and praying in dreadful fear that I wasn’t really saved because a preacher had said that the only way I could be saved was to admit that I wasn’t saved. Well, I COULDN’T in truth admit I wasn’t saved, because maybe I really HAD accepted Jesus as a child, but maybe I hadn’t; I just wasn’t sure. I certainly didn’t have an amazing transformation in my life so I was wracked with guilt. But I couldn’t say, “I know 100% right now that if I died I’d go to hell.” I was afraid of hell, but I also knew I’d trusted Jesus! Only if I had doubts I wasn’t really trusting right? Arrrrgggghhhh!!!! I have AGONIZED over this! In the end, I just have to cling to Christ, not to what I may or may not have done or said or thought or confessed or repented of as a child. “He that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out!” I have to hold on to that.
@ exIFB, yeah – I was told that since I couldn’t remember when i asked Jesus to be my Savior, I couldn’t be saved.
I don’t understand why fundy parents are exhorted to train up a child to follow and trust and love Jesus, but then those same children are told that if they don’t remember an exact time they accepted Christ or if their life didn’t drastically changed, they weren’t saved. It doesn’t make sense.
@PW
I understand – when I first professed salvation as an adult (after reading “This was your life” by Jack Chick), I had no idea who the IFB were (and was only introduced to them after reading more chick tracts). I started attending an Anglican church in Sydney (Sydney Anglicans called themselves low evangelicals, and are completely different to most Anglican Diocese). So I never made a note in my Bible, or signed a tract or anything like that. I only heard about that when I got to the IFB church. They asked for my testimony and when I got saved… I didn’t know so I said when I read that chick tract.
Since then, I’ve wondered when I got saved – it might have been as a child and I was “backslidden”, but it might have been only recently which seems more likely to me.
I used to lie about my testimony because I was afraid of offending my parents, because I remember them leading me through a prayer when I was almost 5 (and I remember the moment… enough to claim it and sound good to any Fundamentalist!), but I know that it wasn’t my own decision, but just doing what my parents wanted me to do (Seriously, what if I “didn’t want to?” that would be disobeying, right? The thought of saying no never crossed my mind anyway… but still, I wasn’t doing it on my own).
Anyhow, I really DID pray up in my bedroom when I was about 8 years old. I don’t remember the day, time of the year, or anything. I didn’t know you were supposed to write dates down… plus, I was scared to tell my parents for fear that they’d think I’d been lying all along. So I didn’t really make a big deal out of it, and didn’t tell anyone the truth until I told my sister years later… just to ask her about her testimony (as it turns out, hers is very similar!).
It’s amazing how scared I was every time “testimony time” would come around. It was at the point where I was questioning my own salvation because of how nervous I would get. I know from studying the Bible on my own, I’ve found that you can know you are saved by the Holy Spirit working in you. The “proof” of my salvation for me, is that I can get SO excited about studying the deeper things in the Bible. That Book amazes me…
@Crystal: perfect sum-up of the Jack@$$ Kidd. Having had one-on-one conversations with him on his Facebook page, I can attest to the fact that he is absolutely sexist and racist, and unapologetic about it.
Fundies warp salvation for so many people. Especially those of us who were brought up in it. I think it’s probably because they themselves have never experienced it. They claim “grace” but they really do embrace a works-based religion.
I was crippled by fear for many years–no wonder, with the focus on
Hell, an angry God, unattainable perfection…the moment I was converted was at 19, when I suddenly realized that I was trusting myself to pray exactly the right words, in just the right order. When I finally understood that God could save me, and that He wasn’t the
one putting all the rules on me, the fears were finally over.
Pastor’s wife, Grace and assurance is a beautiful thing, no?
@ Robin, oh, yes! I’m falling more in love with Jesus every day!
I almost had to leave the sanctuary a few weeks ago because I was so overcome by the power of His love. I wish for all to know this simple truth.
@ Robin, too many of us view God as harsh and mean. Instead He is the gracious Father of the prodigal, welcoming us with open arms and an extravagant party. We think God is like the older brother, but He’s NOT!! He’s the loving Father.
That’s an awesome song! It’s so simple, but it’s so powerful!
Pastor’s wife…God is the father who obviously sat on his porch scanning the horizon waiting on the edge of his seat for his son and when the son appeared he jumped up and ran to him! He did not want to hear the son’s apology, he did not condemn his son, he welcomed him back as his child.
Oh how I have heard that story from the wrong POV my whole life! It was taught as a “you will be lucky if He takes you back” tale of caution!
Yes, very powerful.
i think that’s literally preaching to the choir.
Kidd is about as useless as they come. He’s also got a guestbook page where you can “write” to him. He is the TOTAL antithesis of what a preacher should be. I’m shocked he’s got anything on youtube – he is insanely protective of his work – he won’t let churches/camp meetings generally post free audio.
As for his sermons, when you can get great sermons like:
A LIVE INTERVIEW WITH MR. DEATH
IT’S TRUTH STILL MARCHES ON; THE CONFEDERATE FLAG
KATRINA: WHY DID IT HIT AMERICA?
SOME PEOPLE EVEN JESUS COULD NOT REACH
WHY THE TWIN TOWERS FELL (the truth behind 9/11)
and…
WHY OBAMA SWORE IN ON LINCOLN’S BIBLE
great stuff. And yes, he is a 100% racist.
Really? I mean, REALLY?
SOME PEOPLE EVEN JESUS COULD NOT REACH – subtitle “but Phil Kidd can” 😉
@Robin
I lost it on the first line. God is jealous – but He is jealous of me. It’s why my heart aches so much if I sin, because I know that God is hurt, not angry, not mad, not furious, but hurt, that his purchased possession would do something contrary to Him.
@Brandon
You missed THE EFFECTS OF INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE. It is in the tapes section. (Seriously? Tapes?)
I happened to be there when he dropped that little jewel.
I have heard him say some nasty things.
“I think we need a hunt-a-homo day here in America. We need to hand out Fag Tags to hunters so they can bag a fag.”
Uplifting, edifying stuff.
I had to unfriend someone on facebook because she posted a link to Phil Kidd and praised it! She’s a friend of a friend (I don’t know her personally) and seems to be a nice person, but I just didn’t want my wall filled with posts about how the King James Bible is the only one to use. Then she linked Phil Kidd’s message “Hey Lady Shut Up” [sic] and said she liked it. Ugh. Don’t need that appearing on my wall!
Lady Shutup sounds like a great name for a Chav Rapper.
Darrell I’ll be honest, I like your site. I also like to be quick witted and make fun of easy targets. I mean hell, lets face it we want the most bang for our buck. I find Asians and old people are also great for easy laughs and stereotyping. But i find a bit of irony in this blog post. Believe me, as I sit here polishing off whats left of a growler of Old Rasputin with Pokerstars running in the background I have no reason to defend the fundamentalist “movement” if it even is that anymore… more like a dying breed. However, I just visited Kidds Facebook site – i know right “omgbfflol” but he talks about some meetings he’s had and people getting “saved” there this summer – specifically some kid he prayed for. So – and let me be clear this guys facebook pic freaks me out and he seems like he put on his helmet and rode the short bus – if it fact the truth is that people are coming to find forgiveness in Christ through what he says, then how exactly can you fault him? Anymore than you can fault yourself for personal inconsistencies that dont measure up with the truth of the gospel of christ that you share?
With that said, this blog post really isnt that much different from how the fundamentalist movement responds to christian music – in that while kids at these concerts are making life commitments to Christ they sit back and mock or condemn their actions.
The self disillusionment in this post is surprising. Albeit i havent read too much of this blog.
I’ll go back to my beer and card game now
Also I have a VERY LIMITED knowledge of this guy.
@YourMom
I posted two videos of him in his own words without commentary (in the post anyway) and somehow that’s beyond the pale?
Color me confused.
@Your Mom I think perhaps you may want to revisit my last post in the week of fundy love
There are some fundies who are also decent human beings. And If God sovereignly chooses to also use some of the crazier folks in spite of themselves then I’m all for it.
But the fact that they happen to hit the target at random occasionally won’t stop me from pointing out the error and insanity.
If you think that because Phil Kidd claims some kid got saved after he prays that nobody should talk about his racism, apocryphal tales, and general bad taste then we’ll have to disagree.
Its bigger than that – we’re all with error and mildly insane. If we werent, we would need God.
My arguement isnt that this Kidd fellow is a maniac, but the fact that we should be cautious in how we attack him.
I dont mind disagreeing with you. We can talk about all sorts of stuff (especially in Christianity) both in Fundamentalists and Non -F circles that are hypocritical and gross. You’re right, people being “saved” whatever that really means should never be a benchmark for how youre living life (see jesus and the wine when no one knew it was him) but at the same time the is just as much racism, hypocrisy, sexual infidelity, and lying in EVERY type of Christianity as there is the “secular” world.
ah….screw it. Im not into defending this guy. hes probably a complete retard and I dont care enough. All christians are complete screwups…..i guess thats why they need Christ
btw can anyone verify he shot, stab, and fought a lot? the mental hospital I think is a given
@Your mom, I know quite a few mentally challenged people who would prefer not be associated w/ Phil Kidd. His problem is not mental disabilities/disease, it’s building a kingdom to enrich himself by misreprenting the Messiah, and abusing scripture to enable & pass on his racism, sexism, and other BS.
It never really occurred to me (until now) just how DRAMATIC IFB preachers are.
As a former Deformed Theology Calvinists, I know where this blog is coming from…and it is eerily familar….as “Mom” said…..
“this blog post really isnt that much different from how the fundamentalist movement responds to christian music – in that while kids at these concerts are making life commitments to Christ they sit back and mock or condemn their actions.
The self disillusionment in this post is surprising”
Well said.
❓ Where can i find a copy of this??? Every copy i have found i am not able to play it for one reason or another.
The saddest part about majority of there post are they come from.clueless people.
I would say 9 out of 10 are lost and on their way to He’ll.
a man that doesn’t remember when the very God of Heaven came to dwell inside them, has never had the God of Heaven in them. A woman as she carries for 9 months the child grows more and more inside her but the Mother knows the child is there as well… saying you’re born again by feeling and not fact is very dangerous and the bible says to make your calling an election sure, I’d do the same with my soul.
Regeneration without Repentance is like Preaching Heaven without hell.. I can assure you on the basis of the Word of God you’ll not see Conversion without Conviction…
I have no idea what you’re saying.
“whaa waaah waa wha waaaa waaaha waaa.”
Keep trying to breathe, george is on his way. Are you wearing a tie?
Speaking as a mother who has given birth four times, I actually DON’T know the moment those children were conceived. With my first child, it wasn’t until I started feeling queasy and sick and I took a pregnancy test that I even realized that I HAD a baby inside me. But by that point, I couldn’t look back and say, “Oh, it was THAT night that this happened.”
Was I pregnant? Most definitely. Did I know when that baby was actually made? No.
Of course, my comments prove nothing about God and salvation; I just wanted to point out that the analogy doesn’t work in this situation at all.
Comments are closed.
A silly blog dedicated to Independent Fundamental Baptists, their standards, their beliefs, and their craziness.
@exIFB
I hated the whole “I remember the moment I was saved, if you are saved, you will remember that moment. If you don’t, you probably aren’t savedâ€.
Me too! I never found a Bible verse that backed that belief up.
Yeah, I always thought my conversion had to be like Paul’s. I am sure he remembered his conversion, but he had the Lord Jesus from heaven speak audibly directly to him!
@exIFB
I can remember minute details of my conversion. Where I was, the date, the wording of my prayer and everything. That said, I never saw the Biblical basis for claiming that was necessary. I just happen to have a frighteningly good memory.
@ Robin, “I grew up in the church and I was naturally a quiet, mild mannered kid.” That was me! I wished I had an exciting testimony too, not to thrill people with but because so many preachers said (as you pointed out), “If God hasn’t radically changed your life, then you are not ‘saved.’ ” I asked Jesus to be my Savior when I was three (I also started reading at age 3) so my life didn’t drastically change. One night in college I stayed up all night reading the Bible and praying in dreadful fear that I wasn’t really saved because a preacher had said that the only way I could be saved was to admit that I wasn’t saved. Well, I COULDN’T in truth admit I wasn’t saved, because maybe I really HAD accepted Jesus as a child, but maybe I hadn’t; I just wasn’t sure. I certainly didn’t have an amazing transformation in my life so I was wracked with guilt. But I couldn’t say, “I know 100% right now that if I died I’d go to hell.” I was afraid of hell, but I also knew I’d trusted Jesus! Only if I had doubts I wasn’t really trusting right? Arrrrgggghhhh!!!! I have AGONIZED over this! In the end, I just have to cling to Christ, not to what I may or may not have done or said or thought or confessed or repented of as a child. “He that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out!” I have to hold on to that.
@ exIFB, yeah – I was told that since I couldn’t remember when i asked Jesus to be my Savior, I couldn’t be saved.
I don’t understand why fundy parents are exhorted to train up a child to follow and trust and love Jesus, but then those same children are told that if they don’t remember an exact time they accepted Christ or if their life didn’t drastically changed, they weren’t saved. It doesn’t make sense.
@PW
I understand – when I first professed salvation as an adult (after reading “This was your life” by Jack Chick), I had no idea who the IFB were (and was only introduced to them after reading more chick tracts). I started attending an Anglican church in Sydney (Sydney Anglicans called themselves low evangelicals, and are completely different to most Anglican Diocese). So I never made a note in my Bible, or signed a tract or anything like that. I only heard about that when I got to the IFB church. They asked for my testimony and when I got saved… I didn’t know so I said when I read that chick tract.
Since then, I’ve wondered when I got saved – it might have been as a child and I was “backslidden”, but it might have been only recently which seems more likely to me.
I used to lie about my testimony because I was afraid of offending my parents, because I remember them leading me through a prayer when I was almost 5 (and I remember the moment… enough to claim it and sound good to any Fundamentalist!), but I know that it wasn’t my own decision, but just doing what my parents wanted me to do (Seriously, what if I “didn’t want to?” that would be disobeying, right? The thought of saying no never crossed my mind anyway… but still, I wasn’t doing it on my own).
Anyhow, I really DID pray up in my bedroom when I was about 8 years old. I don’t remember the day, time of the year, or anything. I didn’t know you were supposed to write dates down… plus, I was scared to tell my parents for fear that they’d think I’d been lying all along. So I didn’t really make a big deal out of it, and didn’t tell anyone the truth until I told my sister years later… just to ask her about her testimony (as it turns out, hers is very similar!).
It’s amazing how scared I was every time “testimony time” would come around. It was at the point where I was questioning my own salvation because of how nervous I would get. I know from studying the Bible on my own, I’ve found that you can know you are saved by the Holy Spirit working in you. The “proof” of my salvation for me, is that I can get SO excited about studying the deeper things in the Bible. That Book amazes me…
@Crystal: perfect sum-up of the Jack@$$ Kidd. Having had one-on-one conversations with him on his Facebook page, I can attest to the fact that he is absolutely sexist and racist, and unapologetic about it.
Fundies warp salvation for so many people. Especially those of us who were brought up in it. I think it’s probably because they themselves have never experienced it. They claim “grace” but they really do embrace a works-based religion.
I was crippled by fear for many years–no wonder, with the focus on
Hell, an angry God, unattainable perfection…the moment I was converted was at 19, when I suddenly realized that I was trusting myself to pray exactly the right words, in just the right order. When I finally understood that God could save me, and that He wasn’t the
one putting all the rules on me, the fears were finally over.
Pastor’s wife, Grace and assurance is a beautiful thing, no?
@ Robin, oh, yes! I’m falling more in love with Jesus every day!
We have sung this song in church a few times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWgeUrD4MHI
I almost had to leave the sanctuary a few weeks ago because I was so overcome by the power of His love. I wish for all to know this simple truth.
@ Robin, too many of us view God as harsh and mean. Instead He is the gracious Father of the prodigal, welcoming us with open arms and an extravagant party. We think God is like the older brother, but He’s NOT!! He’s the loving Father.
That’s an awesome song! It’s so simple, but it’s so powerful!
Pastor’s wife…God is the father who obviously sat on his porch scanning the horizon waiting on the edge of his seat for his son and when the son appeared he jumped up and ran to him! He did not want to hear the son’s apology, he did not condemn his son, he welcomed him back as his child.
Oh how I have heard that story from the wrong POV my whole life! It was taught as a “you will be lucky if He takes you back” tale of caution!
Yes, very powerful.
i think that’s literally preaching to the choir.
Kidd is about as useless as they come. He’s also got a guestbook page where you can “write” to him. He is the TOTAL antithesis of what a preacher should be. I’m shocked he’s got anything on youtube – he is insanely protective of his work – he won’t let churches/camp meetings generally post free audio.
As for his sermons, when you can get great sermons like:
A LIVE INTERVIEW WITH MR. DEATH
IT’S TRUTH STILL MARCHES ON; THE CONFEDERATE FLAG
KATRINA: WHY DID IT HIT AMERICA?
SOME PEOPLE EVEN JESUS COULD NOT REACH
WHY THE TWIN TOWERS FELL (the truth behind 9/11)
and…
WHY OBAMA SWORE IN ON LINCOLN’S BIBLE
great stuff. And yes, he is a 100% racist.
Really? I mean, REALLY?
SOME PEOPLE EVEN JESUS COULD NOT REACH – subtitle “but Phil Kidd can” 😉
@Robin
I lost it on the first line. God is jealous – but He is jealous of me. It’s why my heart aches so much if I sin, because I know that God is hurt, not angry, not mad, not furious, but hurt, that his purchased possession would do something contrary to Him.
@Brandon
You missed THE EFFECTS OF INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE. It is in the tapes section. (Seriously? Tapes?)
I happened to be there when he dropped that little jewel.
I have heard him say some nasty things.
“I think we need a hunt-a-homo day here in America. We need to hand out Fag Tags to hunters so they can bag a fag.”
Uplifting, edifying stuff.
I had to unfriend someone on facebook because she posted a link to Phil Kidd and praised it! She’s a friend of a friend (I don’t know her personally) and seems to be a nice person, but I just didn’t want my wall filled with posts about how the King James Bible is the only one to use. Then she linked Phil Kidd’s message “Hey Lady Shut Up” [sic] and said she liked it. Ugh. Don’t need that appearing on my wall!
Lady Shutup sounds like a great name for a Chav Rapper.
Darrell I’ll be honest, I like your site. I also like to be quick witted and make fun of easy targets. I mean hell, lets face it we want the most bang for our buck. I find Asians and old people are also great for easy laughs and stereotyping. But i find a bit of irony in this blog post. Believe me, as I sit here polishing off whats left of a growler of Old Rasputin with Pokerstars running in the background I have no reason to defend the fundamentalist “movement” if it even is that anymore… more like a dying breed. However, I just visited Kidds Facebook site – i know right “omgbfflol” but he talks about some meetings he’s had and people getting “saved” there this summer – specifically some kid he prayed for. So – and let me be clear this guys facebook pic freaks me out and he seems like he put on his helmet and rode the short bus – if it fact the truth is that people are coming to find forgiveness in Christ through what he says, then how exactly can you fault him? Anymore than you can fault yourself for personal inconsistencies that dont measure up with the truth of the gospel of christ that you share?
With that said, this blog post really isnt that much different from how the fundamentalist movement responds to christian music – in that while kids at these concerts are making life commitments to Christ they sit back and mock or condemn their actions.
The self disillusionment in this post is surprising. Albeit i havent read too much of this blog.
I’ll go back to my beer and card game now
Also I have a VERY LIMITED knowledge of this guy.
@YourMom
I posted two videos of him in his own words without commentary (in the post anyway) and somehow that’s beyond the pale?
Color me confused.
@Your Mom I think perhaps you may want to revisit my last post in the week of fundy love
http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2010/05/fundy-love-day-5-gods-sovereignty-whether-they-like-it-or-not/
There are some fundies who are also decent human beings. And If God sovereignly chooses to also use some of the crazier folks in spite of themselves then I’m all for it.
But the fact that they happen to hit the target at random occasionally won’t stop me from pointing out the error and insanity.
If you think that because Phil Kidd claims some kid got saved after he prays that nobody should talk about his racism, apocryphal tales, and general bad taste then we’ll have to disagree.
Its bigger than that – we’re all with error and mildly insane. If we werent, we would need God.
My arguement isnt that this Kidd fellow is a maniac, but the fact that we should be cautious in how we attack him.
I dont mind disagreeing with you. We can talk about all sorts of stuff (especially in Christianity) both in Fundamentalists and Non -F circles that are hypocritical and gross. You’re right, people being “saved” whatever that really means should never be a benchmark for how youre living life (see jesus and the wine when no one knew it was him) but at the same time the is just as much racism, hypocrisy, sexual infidelity, and lying in EVERY type of Christianity as there is the “secular” world.
ah….screw it. Im not into defending this guy. hes probably a complete retard and I dont care enough. All christians are complete screwups…..i guess thats why they need Christ
btw can anyone verify he shot, stab, and fought a lot? the mental hospital I think is a given
@Your mom, I know quite a few mentally challenged people who would prefer not be associated w/ Phil Kidd. His problem is not mental disabilities/disease, it’s building a kingdom to enrich himself by misreprenting the Messiah, and abusing scripture to enable & pass on his racism, sexism, and other BS.
It never really occurred to me (until now) just how DRAMATIC IFB preachers are.
As a former Deformed Theology Calvinists, I know where this blog is coming from…and it is eerily familar….as “Mom” said…..
“this blog post really isnt that much different from how the fundamentalist movement responds to christian music – in that while kids at these concerts are making life commitments to Christ they sit back and mock or condemn their actions.
The self disillusionment in this post is surprising”
Well said.
❓ Where can i find a copy of this??? Every copy i have found i am not able to play it for one reason or another.
The saddest part about majority of there post are they come from.clueless people.
I would say 9 out of 10 are lost and on their way to He’ll.
a man that doesn’t remember when the very God of Heaven came to dwell inside them, has never had the God of Heaven in them. A woman as she carries for 9 months the child grows more and more inside her but the Mother knows the child is there as well… saying you’re born again by feeling and not fact is very dangerous and the bible says to make your calling an election sure, I’d do the same with my soul.
Regeneration without Repentance is like Preaching Heaven without hell.. I can assure you on the basis of the Word of God you’ll not see Conversion without Conviction…
I have no idea what you’re saying.
“whaa waaah waa wha waaaa waaaha waaa.”
Keep trying to breathe, george is on his way. Are you wearing a tie?
Speaking as a mother who has given birth four times, I actually DON’T know the moment those children were conceived. With my first child, it wasn’t until I started feeling queasy and sick and I took a pregnancy test that I even realized that I HAD a baby inside me. But by that point, I couldn’t look back and say, “Oh, it was THAT night that this happened.”
Was I pregnant? Most definitely. Did I know when that baby was actually made? No.
Of course, my comments prove nothing about God and salvation; I just wanted to point out that the analogy doesn’t work in this situation at all.