If you’ve left fundamentalism, the challenge to day is to tell us where and what you are now. Maybe you’ve got a new denominational label, maybe you’ve decided to abandon labels all together, or maybe you’re just plain confused.
It’s rather difficult to leave somewhere without ending up somewhere else. Share a bit about your greener pastures.
I was chrismated in the Orthodox Church this past Sunday! I am amazed at God’s grace to me and His leading in my life.
@Jordan M. Poss: ditto–church history rocks!
I ditched organized religion entirely and became a strong agnostic, childfree, gay-and-atheist-friendly feminist.
Sarah,
A warm congratulations. May God grant you many years.
Antiochian? Greek? OCA?
Although I am a western Catholic, there is soooo much I love about the Orthodox Church. I will sneak away from the Roman Rite from time to time and immerse myself in the Divine Liturgy. I have warm relationship with the Antiochian priest in my area.
Orthodox here too! Many years Sarah!
I became a Confessional Lutheran.
I was raised in a Baptist church when I was growing up. I did attend a fundamentalist Baptist church when I lived in the UK for a few years. But when I came back to the US, I found myself somewhat influenced by the Church Growth Movement, which to a large degree, pointed out many of the challenges and difficulties facing Fundamentalism today.
In time, however, I found the CGM to be fairly empty and hollow. It was lacking in any substantial theological content, and more often than not, tried to accommodate differing confessions of faith, even when they were incompatible. Because I had already begun to recognize errors of the fundamentalist background in which I was raise, but at the same time, was turned off by the shallowness and – if I may – the sheer arrogance of CGM, I decided to immerse myself in theological studies. At the time, I was a humanities major at a Christian college, so I was heavily encouraged to study Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Chesterton, Lewis, etc.
At one point, I carefully considered converting to Roman Catholicism or Anglicanism, but I couldn’t handle the veneration of the saints and the heavy legalistic emphasis of the former, nor the rampant liberalism (biblical and moral) of the latter. So I set out to find a church that was theologically sound, historical in its outlook and philosophy, liturgical and sacramental in its worship.
I had heard lots of good things about the Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod, and about Concordia Seminary in St. Louis. So I sought out an LCMS congregation in my area, and found one. That was some 14 years ago. Since then, I have been catechized into historic confessional Lutheranism, have been trained theologically at CSL, and now serve as a pastor of a small LCMS congregation.
As I said before, the reason I rejected CGM was because of its shallow theology and its arrogant dependence on its own methodologies and philosophies. But the reason I rejected Fundamentalism is because of its lack of good theology in certain specific areas. For the most part, I think Fundamentalism has a much stronger emphasis on biblical theology than CGM, but there are certain truths taught by Scripture that are typically contradicted by Fundamentalism. For example, that Baptism is a means of grace, whereby Christ marks a person as His own, and Holy Communion as the true Body and Blood of Christ, given and shed for the remission of our sins. Additionally, Scripture teaches that the Lord’s called and ordained servants do in fact have authority from Christ to forgive and retain sins, and that Baptism is a promise made even for newborn babies. Though fundamentalism typically confesses that it believes in salvation by Christ alone, it tends to make human initiative and choice the grounds for salvation, not Christ’s atoning death and resurrection. You do not choose Jesus; Jesus chooses you, and He does so through His Word and His Sacraments.
Anyway, it was these inconsistencies in fundamentalism that made it impossible for me to go back, once I had renounced the shallowness and arrogance of CGM. What fundamentalism was lacking, I found in confessional Lutheranism: a strong biblical emphasis, a Christ-centered and cross-focused theology, and a continuation of the historic Christian faith from ancient times.
Calvinist, democrat and complementarian. I attend a church in Upstate SC that is nominally IFB but that does not preach any of the peripherals (they use the ESV, sing both hymns and (gasp!) metrified CCM, women may wear pants, emphasis on grace (not performance!) and best of all… it is on the BJU approved list! =O!
I left fundyland long before I changed churches. I’ve only recently–like, a year ago–started looking for a church where I fit.
I’m now (as of last month) officially e-free.
Up to less than a year ago, our church was considered an IFB church. We weren’t skirts-on-women, KJV-only, but our music in church and our connections with others were very conservative. We’ve been going through lots of changes so I don’t really know what we are. We hold to all the fundamentals of the faith (divinity of Christ, inspiration of the Bible, etc.), but we are discarding some of the cultural “churchianity”. We are planning on having elders instead of just a pastor and deacon board. I feel funny without a “label”; right now I just want to be a Christ-follower.
0-15 years old – Catholic
15-20 years – Church Of Timothy Leary
20-24 years – Ecumenical Charismatic Evangelical
24-28- Methodist
28-40-Independent Baptist
40-45- Southern Baptist
45-48- God Awful Rick Warrenish Style Church
48-Current Independent Baptist
Future? Orthodox/Anglican?
@ pastor’s wife said “right now I just want to be a Christ-follower.”
I find myself almost feeling like I have to apologize when I say this…
I go to a Bible church, definitely Calvinist (a hearty five-pointer), but not a Fundy. I don’t like the term (can’t imagine why!). I feel like a new-new-evangelical. 🙂 I live and work in the Upstate of SC, and my church has BJ connections, but I love my ESV, teach from it, and have fun watching my wife wear pants to church. 🙂
i think church services are all a show, I’m more along the lines of God’s grace for all people these days, and that the kingdom of God appears where we plant it – rather than a place post-death.
Amish.
I am at a truly independent Baptist church, that is Jesus centered, gospel driven, values biblically, authentic theology and believes in the historic fundamentals. We realize Baptist aren’t as historic as they pretend to be and there are very few, if any hills we would die on other than doctrine. I am free to live my life as I believe God wants me to. I have grown immensely here and love being free of man made rules and traditions and treasure having the freedom to love Jesus and worship Jesus without being forced into a legalistic mold.
You might call me “unaffiliated” or “non-denominational” even though I go to a Baptist church. Independent Baptists are too “denominational” to be truly Biblical. There are too many Popes or Baptist “Ayatollahs” that control, guilt or pressure people to be truly independent.
@Stephen Bean
Visit http://www.acts29network.org/churches/
http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/Churches/USMap.aspx
Grew up IFB with connections to NBBC, BJU, PCC, etc…thank God not Hyles-Anderson tho, although I’m sure we shared speakers on occassion.
Moved to another IFB church where my family still attends, but had more of an emphasis on grace and doctrine to the point of hyper-intellectualism as well as ditching the KJV-Onlyism…yet still contained a sizable works oriented, ‘all culture is evil’ segment that gradually led to me leaving the church (plus I couldn’t in my conscience continuing going there because of the “abstain from sale, use and purchase of alcohol” clause in the church constitution, and at the time I was serving beer at the restaurant I worked at).
Ended up joining a campus church that called themselves Reformed Charismatic but turned out to be a mixture of Keswick, Arminianism, Charismania, and semi-Pelegian. After five years, I have had enough, and left them a few months ago. Since then, the parallels between them and IFB have been stark. Same amount of IFB shunning.
Now I’m “shopping”. Frankly, at this point, I don’t care. I know where I want to be, but can’t be there yet, so I’m biding my time and waiting on the Lord.
Oh, and those quarterly financial reports James Peet above wants to see are created by my dad who goes to James’ church…and my dad always gets a chuckle when I mention this site to him, especially Fundy Week! He is an old SBC guy who went IFB and has slowly pulled away.
My bad, he goes by Jim Peet on this site!
Practical atheist, I guess? Questions about god and theology just don’t intrigue me anymore, really, but for all practical purposes I live my life and base my beliefs on the assumption that there isn’t any sort of god (or at least not one that can be known in any sort of meaningful way).
Sarah – congratulation. I have several Orthodox friends – Antiochan.
But as other posters said, few things shake your Fundamentalism as much as a study of history – although I strongly disagree with Newman’s conclusions on the subject ( 😉 ). The other thing that can shake you, and which was one of the final nails in the coffin for me, is a study, and some direct questions, about the Sacraments.
Sarah: Many years. I am on my way to where you have just gone! The Orthodox faith is my landing pad but I’m still circling the airport right now.
Since my husband had his chaplaincy endorsement through the SBC, we’re members at a Southern Baptist church in Greenville, SC. However, due to the lack of a suitable Southern Baptist church at our current home, we’re also members of an incredible non-denominational church.
I’m not sure if anyone else has this problem, but I still struggle in my approach to the Sacraments. The church I grew up in ignored them to the point of disdain. They would profess belief in the normal IFB “Two”. In practice was something else. I attended the church for 11 years. In that time we had one baptism service (2 people baptized) and had communion 3-4 times. They scared me and still do. I have knowledge of God’s saving grace in my life since my early teens, but I was not baptized until I 21. I spent about 3 months poring over Scriptures concerning baptism to see if it was required or not. I had a terrible fear of doing it just because everyone else had and it was expected. I still not entirely persuaded it’s a commandment for all Christians (though obviously a Christian practice and the disciples were ordered to), but I was able in good conscience to do it to show my identity with Christ.
My bias against Sacraments still bothers me. Even in my current church when we have communion I’m bothered by it’s formal nature. I just always associated Christianity with a total absence of physical ritual, as contrasted with just about every other large-scale belief system on earth.
Although I am and always have been part of the United Church of Canada (so I didn’t go through nearly as much of the crazy stuff that y’all went through), I used to be part of the more conservative/fundamentalist branch of the UCC (I agreed with groups like the Community of Concern which was mostly all about how gays were icky). After three years in seminary, I can no longer stand the cognitive dissonance of having to believe in a literal Bible only when it suits fundamentalist doctrine, but at the same time I still believe in the authority of the Bible. However, I also believe that gay sexuality is just as sacred as straight sexuality and that humans and apes probably share a common ancestor. I believe that God is Sovereign but not necessarily male. I am a Liberal Evangelical and if a fundy calls me an apostate, I’ll take it as a compliment.
@ Dan Keller
I think you are my church twin! After leaving the Baptists it was Methodist turned Episcopalian, which is where I am now. I love both churches’ commitment to social justice, but as I found myself getting more interested in the sacraments and pondering God’s grace I found myself exploring the Episcopal church. I find the liturgy beautiful, meaningful, and comforting and the emphasis on God’s grace is exactly what I need.
Reformed Charismatic.
I ended up married, atheist, and much more relaxed. After leaving the church, I simply quit going. Having a true day of rest on the weekend is great. I tell you, Sunday was WORK growing up.
Right now I am a:
Premillinal, pretribulation, dispensationalist, KJV (not only), hymn preferring singer, 5 point, doctrines of grace, non clapping, dress modest, no tie, grape juice, pulpit, amen and don’t lift your hands, quarterly business meeting, male song leaders, Sunday school, AM, PM, VBS, no church camp, Wednesday night Bible study, women can wear pants, just not THE PANTS, no alter call, no birthday offering, once saved always saved, deep water, sovereign grace, missionary, southern Baptist.
The proceeding statement is subject to change without notice, and is not intended to be an exhaustive list by any means.
I began my journey away from FundaMENTALism during my sojourn in the wilderness of Fundy U. Post graduation I consider myself a missional/contemporary/non-denom, since I don’t think throwing the proverbial baby out with the legalistic bathwater is the way to go.
Right now I’m helping other like-minded people plant a non-judgmental church that has the label of Baptist but none of the mindless trappings of their works-based sanctification. I find myself more in tune to the Grace of God in a place where my wife is wearing jeans to church and the pastor will go to the movie theater with you, instead of preaching aboout how you should stay out of the “movie house” and other such spiritually uplifting things…
@Adam, LK, Louis and cordovan–thanks y’all! I’m in an OCA parish right now–love it! It’s a wonderful blend of ethnic, social and religious backgrounds–I love how many of us would never be together except for our common bond in Christ.
@Stephen Bean–have you considered reading up on the early church? like, super early–The Apostolic Fathers (ed. Jack Sparks) has a bunch of early stuff gathered together in a good translation. When I was worried about believing the “right” things about doctrine, considering what Christians everywhere had believed from the beginning was huge–not just what “I” believe, but what do all (or practically all) Christians believe?
@Sarah: I realize your comment wasn’t directed at me. However, I recently bought a copy of The Apostolic Fathers, though I have yet to actually read it. Looks like I’m going to have to bump it up the queue. 🙂 My views on icons and the role of women, not to mention my aversion to anything claiming to be The One True Church preclude me from becoming Orthodox (that and the lack of any Orthodox churches down here in Baptist country), but all the same I highly value church history and tradition. Is there anything else you (or anyone else) would recommend in learning more about the early church fathers?
Lingered around IFB longer after I got tired of it, because I made good friends, but dipped my toes in non-denominational churches. One worked for a while, but it was so focused on programs and music and flashy lights that it was hard to get at the meat they actually preached. Their college segment became all about “leadership” which not everyone is called to do, and certainly not their limited version of it, so I bailed.
Visited an Episcopalian church a couple of times, but wasn’t used to the liturgy. Did some digging around on my own and settled on United Methodist. Found a church in my area, and it felt so right. Also it’s my first experience having a lady as a pastor, so that’s cool too 😀
Left a hard core fundamentalist church (former pastor committed suicide when his affair was about to be exposed). My wife is still a fundamentalist at heart (the koolaid lasts a lifetime) so we attend a pretty conservative church but not an IFB church by any means. Still have have kids in Christian school which we makes money tight but as everyone knows if the school bill is paid then your marriage and every other aspect of your life is rock solid!!
Additionally, I will never join another church or tithe. After so many years of earnestly doing the right thing, only to see that my pastor was hitting on my wife, pretty much deep sixed my faith in God and the church.
Left PCC staff in 2003…still sifting through the debris of my life.
Attended a Methodist church for a while (though their Temperance Union style politics bothered me somewhat, after coming out of IFB authoritarianism); visited here and there. The only place I really feel comfortable is a Calvary Chapel a little over an hour from here, but there are a couple of other, closer churches that I might try visiting at some point. I’m still very, very wary of all organized religion.
I came *this* close to rejecting Christianity completely, as a result of how I saw it lived out while working at FundyU. Perhaps had it not been for the Calvary Chapel radio station in Gulf Breeze (that I technically wasn’t allowed to listen to), I might have. Still searching for the path forward.
Great comments on this post.
For those who are searching and have been hurt by fundamentalism…I know how that is. It sucks.
Just please don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater.
It’s not God that hurt us. It is some jerk claiming to be his representative.
Run from fundyland, but keep searching for Christ. He is real.
You will find answers. It took me 10 years to find them, but now that “peace that passes understanding” is finally here and it is awesome.
Those who have been through it and have made it can testify to the beauty that is around the bend for you if you can persevere.
From the Book of Common Prayer:
The Sacraments
Q. What are the sacraments?
A. The sacraments are outward and visible signs of inward
and spiritual grace, given by Christ as sure and certain
means by which we receive that grace.
Q. What is grace?
A. Grace is God’s favor toward us, unearned and
undeserved; by grace God forgives our sins, enlightens
our minds, stirs our hearts, and strengthens our wills.
Q. What are the two great sacraments of the Gospel?
A. The two great sacraments given by Christ to his Church
are Holy Baptism and the Holy Eucharist.
From me:
Methodists and Presbyterians and a few other denominations only recognize the 2 sacraments. Episcopalian, RC, Lutheran and Orthodox churches also recognize confirmation, marriage, unction, ordination and reconciliation as sacraments.
I feel like a bit of an intruder in this thread, as I actually was never part of a fundy church (thank God!). Instead, I was gifted with the incredible blessing of growing up in a non-denominational gathering of Christians to the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. We don’t take a name, because, really, we aren’t some set-apart group, we’re just Christians trying to do our best to follow God. When we talk about ourselves (there’s several gatherings of people with similar beliefs and fellowship with each other throughout many countries… probably the countries with the most are Canada, the US, Ireland, and the United Kingdom, but there’s plenty of others in other countries), we tend to just call ourselves “assemblies” (not “Assembly of God”! Just “assemblies”). Because in English-speaking countries, we often call our buildings (which we don’t call churches, by the way… we use the original meaning of church to refer to the people, not the building!) “Gospel Halls”, some might have heard of us by those names.
Well, that’s what we call (or, rather, don’t call) ourselves. We’re quite similar to the Plymouth Brethren, and our “movement” even started around the same time as that, but it’s actually a separate “movement” starting in Scotland and later spreading to the US. Our beliefs are basically that we should follow the principles about a New Testament church as closely as possible, and only those principles. We have a plurality of elders, believe in salvation by solely through acceptance of Christ’s sacrifice for our sins, practice baptism by immersion, and have a “closed” table for the Lord’s Supper, which we remember every week. (Someone mentioned earlier only taking communion 3 or 4 times in 11 years… I can’t imagine what that must be like! In 18 years, I’ve witnessed it probably 800-900 times and participated 100-150 times. Coming up on my third year in fellowship this September, actually!)
Oh, and apparently we have a Wikipedia article! Interesting. We’re put under “Gospel Hall Brethren” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_Hall_Brethren), but again, we firmly believe in not taking a name.
You can find it here by going to The Catechism.
http://www.bcponline.org/
I attended Christian schools all my life, though my parents weren’t Christians and we didn’t attend church. I started going to Fundy schools in fourth grade, then started going to an IFB church when I was sixteen, and still go. But I always made my own choices. For awhile, I started listening only to classical and IFB-approved music (I never really listened to much music anyway), but after attending a secular college, I branched out to CCM and non-religious music that had good lyrics. I never gave up wearing pants or shorts, or going to movies.
Now I’m nineteen, an adult but still a teenager in the minds of most of the adults I know, so I have that to struggle with (especially at my home church). I’ve always been conservative, and compared to most people, I am. But compared to the main, “ruling” (for lack of a better term) people in my church and at my high school, I’m “liberal.” I think for myself, I struggle with my faith and other issues at times, I try to figure things out, I think ultra-controlling rules are limiting to my Christian liberty on issues not specifically dealt with in the Bible are ridiculous.
If you wear skirts all the time, don’t go to the theater, etc. that’s fine– I respect that. But when you start having the “I’m right all the time” style attitude, look down on others (even without realizing it), or constantly tell people how they’re wrong and you’re right– I don’t have much respect.
I can’t wait until I get to heaven and see how everyone worships God in all the various ways. If there are so many styles of music on earth, imagine how many there are in heaven? No more labels, no more denominations, no more music preferences.
My first five steps plan for recovering fundies: these come AFTER the theological mountain has been climbed successfully:
1. Watch six hours of any or all of the following: Doctor Who, Star Trek–TOS or NG–Outer Limits, Twilight Zone (Rod Selling version).
2. Drink at least two beers or one cocktail.
3. Take up one non-church based sport for at least 10 weeks.
4. Read either 1984 or ANIMAL FARM.
5. Give one week’s tithe or offering directly to poor people, looking them in the eye as you do so.
These are designed to bring you into the current mainstream, and they are just a start.
During my childhood my dad converted to Judaism and my mom took us kids to a IFB. Talk about conflict of interests and spiritual abuse.
In the past year I have been all over the map because I worked as a substitute organist. Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopal, Lutheran, Catholic… and then during my time not subbing –Baptist, Southern Baptist, a few super Charismatic churches, and some Non-Denominational churches. Now I have a steady job at a Lutheran church. I’m parked here for a while but not for life.
Of all the churches I’ve been to I probably like some of the non-denominational churches best… but I really haven’t made up my mind yet.
If I was closer to a local UU church(it would be a 40 minute one way trip)I would be one, as it is I don’t go anywhere. Wife and kids attend an IFB.
I grew up IFB and stayed in that til about age 30. Then did some Southern Baptist, non-denom, Church of the Nazarene, then the big switch to Orthodox Presbyterian. We stopped goin anywhere for a couple years, then I started back at a Christian & Missionary Alliance-which was not IFB, but very conservative.
I’m now agnostic. So, Christian for the first 51 years, agnostic for about 2 yrs. My neighbor and I have launched a project of visiting all kinds of different churches and seeing what we think. I doubt that I’ll find one I want to attend regularly, because I simply no longer believe. I don’t think I could pretend. But I do want to see what different denominations do and what they believe and how it feels to attend various services. She has mostly been a non-church attender til now, so it’s been fun so far to discuss it all and visit churches. Very educational.
I’ve found much more happiness and peace as an agnostic. Feels free and real and non-confusing. A very nice change indeed.
I am: blank
@ Bassenco: Dr Who as fundy therapy? AWESOME! Which season should I be recommending? (I like them all, BTW).
Anglican.
Neither here-nor-there, but a string of writers with some theological training passed through the Dr. Who series during the Fourth Doctor (Tom Baker). During that period theological concerns are all over the place.
For that matter, there are several episodes during this period in which only a brief acquaintance with koine greek is helpful in understanding the names of characters, planets, and so on.
I don’t want to hijack. But the question was asked.
I was raised IFCA. I started stepping away in High School when I started getting hired by rock bands. They didn’t know how to handle it. One summer, I got hired by a record label to drum on an album in OH. I flew in and went to the Wilds the next day for Bible camp. My councilor tried to convince me I was in league with Satan. After my time was up at that church, I interned for an Independent Chrisian Church (similar to Church of Christ, but you can play instruments in church). I then went to Bible School. After a year, i almost snapped and let go of everything, but my admiration to Jesus. I have unpacked so much of how I was brain washed and have been repacking it in.
I have been to counseling to help me deal with the fact that I was Molested by a Sunday School teacher growing up and no one dealt with it and my parents were the first family to divorce in the history of our church and no one knew how to handle it.
I am currently serving on staff at a RCA/liberal/postmodern/women in leadership/drinking beer at church events/inviting to gay people/open to anyone who is skeptical of faith church. I live in California and when I am not at my church, I am playing in bars with indie bands. My encouragement to everyone still in is GET OUT OF THE CULT!!!
I’m still IFB, but with the ability to laugh at myself, take life a little less seriously, and follow my conscience instead of what my pastor says without feeling guilty. Our IFB church is a good one, not at all like what is described in this site. Not to say that those don’t exist–we were in one for five very long years–just saying that our particular IFB happens to be pretty good.
I find it interesting that I gravitated to the series after becoming disenchanted, that’s why I asked.