A frequent accusation of the posts and comments on this site is that they tend to be very negative without providing a “better way” to do things. So today the challenge is to give some constructive advice about ways there could be positive change in fundyland. (Hint: “Nuke it from space” or “Burn it to the ground” are not the positive changes we’re looking for here).
My contribution:
1. A return to liberty in matters not explicitly covered by Scripture.
2. True legal, moral, and ethical accountability at every level.
3. An acknowledgment that other orthodox believers are brothers and sisters in Christ with whom real fellowship is possible even if disagreements exist.
4. A realization that differences in culture, method, and style should be judged on their own merits and not dismissed merely because they are not my way of doing things.
What are yours?
5) Allow public expression of disagreement within fundamentalism.
Thank you for posting this, you could say I’m in the fundamental “camp” and this is something I’ve been meaning to email you about.
Looking forward to seeing the responses 🙂
6) Don’t major on the minors.
7) Be a social “salt and light” and reach out to those in society that are needing of help, and show the love of Jesus by helping them with their physical needs.
6. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
9) Focus on discipleship, not on [artificially inflated] “numbers of souls saved.”
Darrell – I am in full support of any and all comments on this site (positive or negative on fundamentalism) because I view it as a therapeutic way to cope with the way fundamentalism has affected our lives. I’ve been impressed with your ability to find so many satirical things to write about and the fact organization, both content-wise and ascetically, of this site. So I really don’t think its “broke and needs fixing” but if you wanted to add a page that wouldn’t be perceived as “negative” – why not a section on how to work your way out of fundamentalism – or serious coping strategies for kids (in fundy world that means late teens and early 20’s) who feel trapped. Vicky, from http://www.nolongerquivering.com, does that pretty well – if you wanted to check her site out.
10) Don’t put your family on the shelf for the sake of saving America.
Listen. God used a donkey to talk to Balaam.
Darrell,
I have tuned in for the last several days and read many of your posts and those of your participants. I have found the reading on yours site to be refreshing, hilarious, and….human. Thank You.
Constructive feedback for those who are Fundamentalists…hmmmm. I will give it whack.
1) Trying exploring the history of how the New Testament canon was formed 350 plus years after the Resurrection. Really, just try it.
2) Consider exploring how Christians across history might have grown in their faith without being literate. (A good number of Christians on the globe are not literate now.) Picking up a printed text, toting it around, and reading are still and relatively new things.
3) Give a little thought to the extent your way of life and way of believing is actually rooted in the historic Christian faith or the cultural constructs of the United States in the last 150 years. To put it another way – try to understand (and wrestle with) the difference between cultural issues and genuine moral & spiritual ones.
4) Explore the humanity of Christ Jesus and the humanity of those he taught, healed, disciple, and rebuked.
I have more, but I trust this is a good start.
11) Find Freedom in Christ by living for Him and striving only to please him and not living your life to make everyone else happy. (ie – Church members, staff, or pastor)
Darrell,
I just realized that some of my ideas overlap with yours. Sorry for the repetition. ; )
stop using sensational lies and untrue stories to show the power of God. His power and glory stand on their own.
Replace their list of standards (nothing but KJV, no movies, no CCM, etc.) with the fruit of the Spirit instead. I’d love to see more joy, peace, and gentleness in the fundy world.
amen to that.
–Realize that all truth is God’s truth, and that even works of art and literature from depraved nonbelievers can be sources of valuable lessons.
–Return the emphasis from the pastor and the service to the worshiper and his family. And stay out of the business of the family.
–Study history and literature. It can only help those who do. 😀
@Darrel: In my experience, your No. 3 is the biggest hurdle for many fundies, and may be the last constructive criticism to be acted upon. Good post.
-realize that any “greatness” a man of God may have comes from God…not from how many souls HE has “saved” or how big his bus ministry is, or how big the church is…
To spend more time really listening for what God is saying instead of speaking for Him.
5. All truth is God’s truth. But man’s understanding of that truth is not truth itself. All truth is God’s truth, but man cannot even begin to understand it. God’s truth never changes, but man’s apprehension constantly changes.
6. (Followup) Therefore do not fall on the sword of personal interpretation.
7. (another followup) creating “doctrines” out of principles is code for, “I’m making this up.” Standards can and are based upon principles, but doctrines cannot be. Standards are personal and subject to change, doctrines are fundamental to the faith. Pretending that your personal standard somehow applies to me is being disingenuous and scripturally dubious.
8. (final followup) The Fundamentals of faith should be boiled down to the *real* fundamentals of faith – essential core, and absolute doctrines-. Anything else is personal opinion and is *not* something to separate over (for a better explanation see suggestion 5).
9. American culture was never sacred, as such it has never fallen away from being sacred. Stop pretending that your culture is better than everyone else’s and stop assuming that we are headed for moral decay. Culture is not evil, stop treating it as if it were.
10. This next one is more or less a quote from Driscoll, but so apropos. “Everyone contextualizes, it is just a matter of what date they pick.” IOW Old time religion is only as meaningful as how far back you go. None of us worship like the Apostles and my old time religion may be newer than your old time religion or vise verse. If I choose to use modern instruments or modern technology or a modern translation that is no different than you choosing to wear a tie, have a piano in church, use a microphone, or have lights instead of candles. We both contextualized from scripture…we just picked different dates to contextualize to.
11. (very close to Darell’s 4) Realize that there are good godly Christians who disagree and who have different standards. This is ok, both are brothers in Christ. Neither one must be in sin.
12. (Final one should be covered by all the above, but needs to be said outright) Music cannot be good or bad solely based upon the elements of a song (theory or instruments). The Bible is purposefully vague about specifics of music for a reason. A related note. Western music wasn’t divined by God himself. The fact that our culture uses specific structures (theory) and instruments doesn’t mean that other structures (theory) and instruments are therefore wrong. There is no special physiological or anatomical relevance to western style of music. Therefore there is no moral leg to stand on in declaring one particular style as sacred or “biblical” while condemning all other styles (especially if they come from a mix of cultures). If your musical standards are based upon structure (theory ie the beat is too strong or I can’t understand the words) and or physiology (it makes me dance, or my heart beat might become irregular) you lose (see point 5-7 above).
Quit selling faith in Jesus as merely fire insurance – it’s so much more.
I think they could at least start with learning how to get along with other IFB churches, and finding unity in Christ. I don’t mean they have to “give up their beliefs” for unity (since that’s what all of them think “unity” would require), but just learn how to get along in spite of differences.
For example, I’m still in a church that would be considered “Fundy” by many here, but I’d call it a “progressive Fundy church” in the fact that we still hold to the same doctrines as many IFB churches (KJV-only, Once saved always saved, autonomy of the local church, etc.), but we actually know how to get along with others, and we aren’t extremely picky about stuff. Our pastor actually allows some CCM in our church (during special music… we still sing hymns) :-O There’s a completely different spirit there than I’ve ever experienced in an IFB church, and it’s amazing.
Also, I’ve found that I can get along with just about anybody that is a true Christian, and even a lot of non-Christians, as long as they want to get along with me. It isn’t “compromising”, but just being nice to people. I’ve also noticed that people who aren’t Christians really appreciate a Christian that just knows how to be nice! I think I’m a far better testimony this way than if I was shoving Chick tracts in their face all the time and always asking “If you died tonight….?” Not that witnessing isn’t important, but I believe we shouldn’t be salesmen for Jesus. 🙂 Learning how to love others and share Christ with them the way Jesus intended is much different than the way most Fundies do it.
(I wish I could “like” comments here like on Facebook… there are a few awesome ones!)
Lose the anger. Even if you want to focus on God’s wrath against sin, that wrath lead him to die on a Roman cross, not to destroy humanity or creation. Be angry and sin not does not mean scream at someone how much better you are than them.
Lose the passive aggression. I know “psychology” is anti-fundy, but even on a basic human level you have to know the sighing, Disappointment & trying to undermine while smiling are neither loving or friendly.
I’m not sure mine qualify as constructive cause are things that need to stop, not positive things should be doing.
@Jordan
That first one is good. I was writing mine when you posted. Yes even the unsaved can stumble upon God’s truth. Amen.
Also I like your last one. Study history. I’d second that. It was my study of history that lead me out of Fundy land. Particularly church history. I realized that the same things were being repeated over and over by Fundamentalists. I realized that it was the same battles just insert _____ into the argument. Studying real history would clear up a lot of things for them.
Thanks Darrell for posting this one. Good to think about it sometimes.
-update the river murals
-teach the songleader the correct way to conduct, or teach him to put his arms down
-get together every week for a “trail of blood” study. bring your authorized trail of blood and also a real historical work. compare the two. watch your foundation crumble. now- rebuild on truth.
now you’ve gone to meddlin’ 😉
*get back to the truth, and only the truth, instead of all the man-made rules, etc.
*don’t let money influence your decisions (i.e. “well, this isn’t really in the Bible, but if we change this rule, people will leave the church. . and then how will we pay the bills.”)
*cut out the manipulation
Please….please… just admit that the “Lawrence Welk Show + a Sermon” worship model is NOT New Testament/Historical Christian worship. I am not asking you to change it….just admit that much.
Be a little more creative during the time of public congregational response to the preaching. (a.k.a.: the “altar call.”) Not everyone comes to Christ the first time they hear the Gospel, and after the 3rd or 4th time, the “Every head bowed, every eye closed, no one looking around, I wonder if there would be any hear who would say…” routine gets to seem like just a litany and a standard what-we-do-before-we-leave church thing, and lost people can start to tune it out.
Allow only people with advanced degrees to be called Dr.
On the flip side, start promoting education instead of bashing it. As many people said in previous comments, do not be afraid of truth.
Learning is a journey, stop treating it like a destination.
Definitely stop handing out fake degrees!
Love the updated river murals. Possibly the least likely to happen, despite being the least meaningful thing ever!
Study real Church history. It helps, trust me.
Remember that the Gospel is that Christ died for sinners, and preach it.
Set up Biblical church government, with a plurality of elders, if at all possible (I understand that a congregation with six church members may find this difficult).
Listen to what other people are saying, even (perhaps especially) if they disagree with you. For example, actually listen to why people use (and make!) modern Bible translations.
Take a good hard look at the hymnal, and perhaps revise it. It may shock you, but some of the 19th century gospel songs were CCM back when they were made, and set to music hall tunes! No music halls any more!
Oh, and most importantly, have nothing to do with Gail Riplinger.
Fundies (and all Americanized Christians for that matter) stop all other studies, and programs (unless they are actually helping people and meeting their need) and Study, really study Theology. The Study of God, who HE is, his nature, and how He has revealed Himself to us. Not just on the surface but and indepth study of the Sovereign, Almighty, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, creator GOD. Study His creation, the stars, the galaxies, the environment, the culture…. Glorify God in ALL his creation and the work of his creations hands… art, music, thought, philosophy, moral issues…. develop a biblical worldview. Get to know God as He has revealed Himself to us. The non-essentials will peal away as Truth becomes clearer and more dear to us.
You cannot love someone you do not know.
Hey, Don, the first sentence and the last, a big haaaymen to those!!! Let me say that this is without a doubt the best topic and posts I have ever read on this site. Beautiful. 😀
– Come to terms with the fact that the church started in 1st century Israel, not 1870’s America.
– Being “old-fashioned” doesn’t necessarily equate to being biblical.
Actually believe in grace, don’t just sing songs about it!
Allow questions and thoughts to evolve into disscussion and reflection, rather than rejection and damnation
One more and I will be finished (for today)….
Drop the Scandanavian images of Jesus (and all other Old Testmant figures) from the Sunday School hallways, Sunday School curriculum, and home schooling materials.
If you must depict Christ Jesus as a Dane or a Swede, you had better put a beer in his hand. At least the beer part would come somewhat close to historical accuracy.
– Don’t ignore what Christians have done and written over the past 2,000 years. Learn from them.
– Preach on grace. Amazing grace is so much more than just a song.
– Understand that the gospel is not just for unbelievers – it’s for believers, too.
– When you preach, stick to the text and what it says.
– Allow and even encourage questioning.
– Doubt is not bad.
“Freedom is the right to be wrong…not do wrong.” John G. Diefenbaker
“One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.”
– Nikola Tesla
You know what? I have to add one more.
Want to to be minister/pastor/staff member in a Fundamentalist Church?
Why is that I can have a history of being a mercenary/contract Mafia killer/enslaver of people in underdeveloped countries and even launch an all-out holocaust on a village….just as long as it happens before I make a decision to convert at the altar?
But….if….God-forbid….if I have a history of divorce (before or after conversion)….I do not stand a snowball’s chance in a brick oven of being ordained?
Wow, these are all such good suggestions. I don’t think I have anything better to add!
Realize that there are NO great men of God….None. Get their pictures off the church hallway walls. It’s not about them. They have tied their personalities to the gospel.
There are only sin filled, fallen reprobates who happen to earn their living at the church who are at the mercy of a great, gracious, and loving God who allows them to take their next breath.
YES!!!!
Abandon the mantra: “My seminary said it, I believe it, that settles it.”
>Treat everybody with love regardless of what sins they struggle with (I’m thinking especially of LGBT folks).
>Try actually reaching out to the underdogs in society. Yes, they may be alcoholics, or prostitutes and they may not have any “Sunday clothes,” but these are the people Jesus was close to.
>Clarification of previous point: By “reaching out” I don’t mean just handing them a tract. I mean starting actual relationships. (Yes, I know there’s a risk that your “testimony” might be polluted if people see you hanging out with prostitutes and the like, but that didn’t seem to be a concern of Jesus)
– Obey the Bible’s many commands to care for and support children, the fatherless, the widows, the orphans, the oppressed, etc. The sin of Sodom was not sodomy (Ezekiel 16:49-50).
You guys have really hit all the important nails on the head. I have nothing to add but Bravo!
If you disagree with other Christians, be honest about their position. Don’t make up horrendous things about them just so you’ll look more justified in your shunning of them and so other fellow fundies will also avoid those people too.