The following is report on the 2010 National Sword of the Lord Conference by an attendee. It is published in its entirety without modification (edit: except the adding of the names of the various session speakers).
My Background:
I come from a nondenominational church on the East Coast. Right now, our church is called a “Fundamental Bible Churchâ€. We are a non-denominational church that uses the New Living Translation. We do not belong to a particular denomination since we prefer to follow our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. After a messy battle with our previous pastor, we are currently revising our Church Constitution (and looking for a new pastor, too). Unsure as to whether we should issue an invitation to candidate to someone who describes themselves as a “fundamental Baptistâ€, I have been sent to the Sword of the Lord Conference in North Carolina. I am there for the express purpose of finding faults with the conference. After our last pastor, the Board of Elders wants a worst-case scenario report. This will be far from “fair and balanced†reporting.
Monday Evening
The first things that I notice are the huge, ostentatious Bus Ministry signs – as if numbers are a competition. The platform area is raised and features Doric columns and ornate chairs – they remind me of a Greek temple. In this case, the one being adored is the pastor.
The presenter comes to the podium and engages in blatant Hero Worship – He talks about the “great†Dr. Rice, the “great†Gospel Light Baptist Church, and the “great†Sword of the Lordâ€. It takes over five minutes before anyone says anything about God or Jesus, and even then they fail to call Him “greatâ€. The Presenter then goes on to say that “We will be using the same Bible as last year.†This is greeted with shouts, whistles, and Amens. He then goes on to say that “we will be using†the same complete, perfect, and infallible Bible as people have been using for over 400 years. I take pity on those using foreign-language bibles and determine to visit the booksellers and see if anyone is really selling a KJV 1611.
The music is LOUD. The speakers seem to be set at full volume, and it hurts. It’s worse than any concert of any variety I’ve ever been to. The tempo and beat of the music reminds me of some contemporary worship, but how can that be – isn’t this a bastion of fundamentalism? I must be missing something. Now the sermons start. There’s a small smattering of applause – are these people really applauding a pastor like he’s some kind of celebrity? Anyway, the sermons have begun. I will leave off the speakers names in order to protect the ignorant. Note: please do not consider these to be authoritative lists of stupidity. They are only the ones I could remember after the service, since all the pens seem to have been removed from the auditorium.
Speaker One (Shelton Smith, editor of The Sword Of The Lord) says that America’s problems are ones of repentance. Apparently, only going to the altar shows true repentance and brings revival. His sermon is about the “Amen†speaking – the “Amen†being a name of God. He uses as his text the passage in Revelation talking about the Laodicean church. (Rev 3:16) He says that the “angel†of the church is really the pastor. Strange, since my Strong’s Concordance says this word means minister and is the same word used to describe Michael and Gabriel. What happened to literally translating Scripture? He then says it’s the pastor’s duty to tell his congregation what the Amen is saying. How is this different from the Pope??? Anyway…
Speaker Two (Evangelist Lou Rossi, Jr.) comes to the stage. I can’t even remember what his sermon is about, but I do remember that part of his message was about how we cannot make doctrines out of things that are not in the Bible. He says that yellow busses, preaching in white shirts, and the order of a church service are all extra-biblical things and are only personal preferences, not signs of “rightness†with God. In almost the same breath, he says that when people want to “mess with this (holding up a KJV Bible), then it’s preaching time. He claims that the KJV is the only Bible and all others are fakes. (Please try telling this to the French, German, and Spanish….) He goes on to say that if a church is not KJV only, then it is not a church at all but is instead involved in mysticism and controlled by Babylon.
At another point is his message, Speaker Two complains that men have become effeminate, and blames – of all things – Trading Spaces. He says that the problem comes from “men watching Trading Spaces with their wives – especially that guy with the green hat.†This begs the question: How does he know about the green hat?? He says that men need to go back to being “real†men – men with no feelings. He proclaims that men should be able to say: “Slap me and I don’t feel a thing – I’m dead.†I guess we should also stop treating women with respect….
Speaker Two also blamed the hippies for today’s societal problems and denounced all forms of psychiatry and counseling unless it came directly from the KJV.
A phrase I have grown weary of hearing is, “Can I get an AMEN?!?â€. Seriously, if you have to ask, you probably don’t deserve one. It’s especially annoying when it’s asked every 15 seconds. Apparently, a plague will come upon you if you don’t AMEN every time a preacher mentions some Super-Fundy He-Man.
Tuesday Morning
The preachers are treated like celebrities. The applause is LOUD and raucous when they are introduced. How is honoring a man bringing glory to God?
I can’t remember a thing about Speaker One’s (Tim Rabon, pastor of the Beacon Baptist Church in Raleigh, NC) message, other than he said that Paul was executed vial guillotine. Can everyone say “anachronism� Sometime during his message, he started crying. I guess he missed Mr. No-Heart’s message last night… After he spoke, Speaker One came off the stage only to be greeted by his adoring fans. He walked through the front rows of three sections shaking hands and hugging people. Who does he think he is, taking the glory from God?
Speaker Two (Clyde Box, retired pastor) didn’t even preach. He spent his entire allotted time engaging in Hero Worship. He talked on and on and on about Rice, Hynes, Seitler, and Roloff. I thought about Roloff – should we really be worshiping a guy who essentially killed himself by his own stupidity? Speaker Two also asked all the pastors over 70 to stand, and then literally screamed at the audience, telling them to honor those standing and those already departed – apparently this can be accomplished through soul-winning. And here I thought that soul-winning was to bring glory to God. Glad he straightened me out! He tried to tie in his Hero Sermon with Psalm 45:8, saying that the smells mentioned there are referring to God’s glory, suffering, and healing powers. The Altar Call was to ask God that we “smell the acacia of his healingâ€. I’m pretty sure he meant that we should go out and win souls, but if that doesn’t sound mystical I don’t know what does. He also urged people to ask forgiveness for not honoring old preachers.
Tuesday Afternoon
I went to the Sword of the Lord tables this afternoon and asked for a KJV 1611. They said the table was full of them. I looked around, and then asked where they were. I was told that they were right in front of me. I pointed out that their KJV Bibles were written in modern English and, therefore, could not be the KJV 1611. I also did this at another, smaller KJV-only bookseller. If fundamentalists are going to proclaim themselves KJV-1611, then they’d better stop lying and start doing it! On another note, in my travels among the booths, I saw a sign proclaiming “2,000 Years of Baptist Historyâ€. I must go back to that stall and have a chat with them…
Tuesday Evening
Speaker One’s (Kevin Folger, pastor of the Cleveland Baptist Church in Cleveland, OH) message was on the “due order†of God. He seemed to use this as a springboard to preach against whatever he felt like. He said that CCM was utterly devoid of doctrine and had no spiritual value. It’s obvious that he hasn’t listened to any. He also preached against women looking like men and men looking like women. However, he never really defined any of his terms, but simply stated his personal opinions as if they were divinely inspired from God.
Speaker Two (Paul Chappell, pastor of the Lancaster Baptist Church in Lancaster, CA) had a great message about listening and being filled with the Holy Ghost. The only thing I could find against his message was that he constantly referred to the present time as “The Laodicean Church Ageâ€. How do we know that the seven churches of Revelation are ages of the church and not simply seven kinds of churches? I guess since he believes in seven church ages, there must be seven church ages.
After the service I found the “2,000 Years of Baptist History†people and had a nice discussion with them. They seem to apply the term “Baptist†to anyone that has held similar beliefs throughout history. Since the author is a Ph.D., he must be right. I guess I’m wrong for assuming that since the Baptist denomination began in the 1800s, then there were no Baptists before them. Some people need a basic history lesson: something cannot exist before its creation.
I am still unable to find a KJV 1611.
Wednesday Morning
Speaker One (Evangelist John Bishop) was great. I have nothing to say against him. He preached an excellent message on dealing with difficult times.
Speaker Two (Max Barton, pastor of the People’s Baptist Church in Greenville, NC) started with praise for Dr. Smith, the Smith Family, Dr. Rice, and Dr. Hyles. He then launched into his sermon, tied loosely to Psalm 80 (or perhaps it was 85). He dealt with the problems of America – apparently television being one of the most grievous sins of the past century. Second to television was America’s cultural abandonment of her so-called Christian heritage. Never mind the fact that many of the persons quoted were Masons (secret societies are frowned upon by Fundamentalists), Deists, or Agnostics. Since they mention God in a favorable light, they must be OK.
Speaker Two then expounded on the problems with “modern†preaching. He mentioned two problems. The first problem – no surprise here – is the fact that preachers are not using the KJV. Those that do not use the KJV are doomed to fail because they are not backed by the power of God found in the Authorized Version. Apparently fundamentalists have never read the preface to the KJV, which clearly states that (1) The KJV was authorized by King James and not God, and (2) that the purpose of the KJV was to advance the Church of England. I doubt that many fundamentalists would say the Church of England was ever a “Christian†church. The second problem with modern preachers is their use of PowerPoint. He never said exactly what the problem with PowerPoint is, he just said that his lack of PowerPoint knowledge somehow disqualified him from preaching….go figure.
Wednesday Evening
Talk about Hero Worship: Speaker One (Bobby Roberson, pastor of the Gospel Light Baptist Church in Walkertown, NC) was greeted with thunderous applause and a standing ovation. He then proceeded to spend his allotted time just talking without spending much time in the Bible. He talked about how great his church was, how great his bus ministry was, how great his Spanish ministry was, and how great his school was. He also talked about Hyles, Sightler, and Roloff. After each anecdote, he would attribute praise to God. However, it seemed to me like he was just blowing his own horn. What about all the churches that cannot do those kinds of ministries? Does that make them inferior? For a “Revival and Soul Winning Conference,†it had little to do with either.
Speaker Two (R. B. Oullette, pastor of the First Baptist Church of Bridgeport, MI) used as his text the passage talking about the prophet of God who went astray and was killed by a lion. He used this as a springboard to encourage the audience to “keep on the right path.†I’ve tried to remember the things he talked about, but please do not consider this to be a complete list. Throughout this sermon there were constant AMENs, yells, hand waving, et cetera.
Preached Against: John MacArthur, Rick Warren and his wife, Charles Shuler, drinking, dancing, Hollywood, movies, television, CCM, non-KJV Bibles (the NIV is especially wicked), praise and worship bands, modesty (which was never really definedâ€, DVDs, radio, the Southern Baptist Convention, and everything that had anything non-fundamentalist about it.
Preached For: The Sword of the Lord, the KJV, the Old Paths, “good†music, and everything that Fundamentalism has stood for since it began.
Surprises: He said he was not against facial hair or the non-wearing of ties as long as no other doctrines were compromised.
Thursday Morning
Speaker One (Raymond Barber, pastor emeritus of the Worth Baptist Church in Ft. Worth, TX) and Two (Mike Allison, pastor of the Madison Baptist Church in Madison, AL) were essentially the same = America would fall into moral and economic ruin unless everyone adheres to Fundamentalist beliefs.
Thursday Night
Speaker One (Jeff Amsbaugh, pastor of the Grace Baptist Church in Columbus, GA) preached a great message on power of God
Speaker Two (Norris Belcher, pastor of the Church Of The Open Door in Westminster, MD) preached about Hezekiah breaking brass serpent of Moses. This guy was anti-everything. I think this guy managed to fit in everything fundies hate; I couldn’t even keep up with a list. I remember him saying we should worship people like MacArthur and Warren, but didn’t say anything about the Hero Worship of the Pastors/Special Music that had gone on the entire week. He said that things shouldn’t be kept around because of how old they were or if that’s the way our ancestors did it. (Wait, don’t they use those arguments FOR the KJV? I guess it doesn’t apply here). Essentially, this guy was saying that unless we followed all the tenets of Fundamentalism, we were living in idolatry.
Friday
Cut my visit short. I can’t take it anymore.
[ for the record this means that he missed:
1. Mike Norris, pastor of the Franklin Road Baptist Church in Murfreesboro, TN
2. Jeff Fugate, pastor of the Clays Mill Road Baptist Church in Lexington, KY
3. Sam Davison, pastor emeritus of the Southwest Baptist Church in Oklahoma
City, OK
4. Joe Arthur, pastor of the Harvest Baptist Tabernacle in Jonesboro, GA]
I will recommend to the Board of Elders that we screen carefully anyone calling himself a “fundamental Baptistâ€. In addition, I will suggest that we drop the word “Fundamental†from the name of our church.
Are you going to be attending a fundamentalist event? Reports from the front lines are always welcome at SFL. Anonymity guaranteed.
A sad (though often funny) commentary on how spiritually bankrupt the SOTL has become. Ever since I was a kid, fundy preachers have been warning that America would fall into moral and economic ruin unless everybody becomes a fundamentalist. And here we are, in moral and economic ruin, with Fundamentalism guilty of the worst sins of all, and none of the Fundamentalists even seem to notice this.
Regrettably, the writer’s comment, “We do not belong to a particular denomination since we prefer to follow our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” reveals a similar blindness and lack of understanding. I hope he grows to the point where he sees that conscience may vary, and many people in denominational churches are there because they, in good conscience, also prefer to follow our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Having a radically independent church that is not accountable to anybody is not especially meritorious, and you don’t see any of them in the New Testament. You have to hope that he and his church will recognize that in a lot of ways, they’ve positioned themselves to fall into the exact same snares as the IFB churches.
A hilarious yet sad commentary on SOTL.
Well, obviously he’s an apostate anyway because his congregation ousted the managawd to find someone else who will tickle their ears.
Yeah, what Bassenco said. The whole “we prefer to follow Jesus” is a little passive-aggressive and heard in fundy circles too.
Overall though, excellent reporting. Though it did give me a little bit of PTSD.
Wow. I don’t think I have the emotioal fortitude to sit through even just a weekend event by fundies. I would gladly contribute some $ to pay for registration for Reader Mo or Don or Darrell to attend one! 🙂
@BASSENCO – I had a friend at school (a well meaning one, at that) that used to say when denominations, or Arminian/Calvinist discussions came up, he would say, “well, I am a Biblicist”, or, “well, I am a Christian”. Kinda misses the point.
As for the SOTL conference, it sounds about right. I don’t think I could be a member of a church that had a pastor that subscribed to it, and if his sermons were published in it, I’d be out the door.
“We are a non-denominational church that uses the New Living Translation.”
Awesome! I wish I could start a church using The Message. 🙂 I would be instantly blacklisted by a certain college here in the Upstate of SC. 🙂
I loved the part about searching for a true KJV 1611. I have yet to meet someone who says they are KJV 1611 only who actually USES the 1611 edition. Most churches who have “KJV 1611” on their signs have never even seen a 1611. It’s kind of sad and funny at the same time.
One issue – the Baptists began in the 17th century, not the 19th. I have personally been in the buildings of Baptist churches that began in that period, in England. The Church now worshipping at the Metropolitan Tabernacle in London was founded in 1652 in a split from a pre-existing Baptist church. Certain Baptist denominations began in the 19th century, but saying that “the Baptist denomination” began in the 19th century is just plain wrong.
I also possess a facsimile 1611 KJV, which differs from modern KJVs in many and various places.
Wow! I cannot imagine having to sit through such preaching. I’m sad: my parents subscribe to the Sword of the Lord and are KJV-only so I’m guessing they would have enjoyed the conference and wouldn’t have seen the arrogance and shallowness. My dad might have seen through the hero worship though, and he would have totally noticed if a speaker didn’t open a Bible (he takes copious notes of sermons).
I feel for the writer. It would have been hard to listen to all that! I’ve always been in the IFB, but we aren’t comfortable there anymore as we see places where God’s Word is laid aside for man’s traditions (like a nearby church claiming we have NO OBLIGATION to help our community beyond simply TELLING them the salvation plan. Really? My Bible says to do good works and to help the helpless.) Anyway our church is rewriting our constitution too. I’m not sure what label to put on us, because IFB puts us in a box with those no CCM, KJV-only, separationist crowd. I pray his church finds the right pastor for them.
“he never really defined any of his terms”
Ahh, yes. This is one of the things that fundies like most of all – ambiguity. It gives plenty of wiggle room without the need to define what exactly they are talking about. Just let the Holy Spirit guide you, but if you don’t come to the same conclusions that I have, you’re obviously not listening very well.
@RobM
No thanks I’m not ready for that yet. I just passed on three nights of Tony Hudson. I am just not up to wading through that much walking, talking, fecal matter this week .
This week for some reason I have just been fed up with the blind allegiance given to the fundy movement here in the south. The great Gospel Light Baptist Church, (I live in the area) and all the other contenders for the throne to be Queen Church around here. There is so much competition in this area with over lapping bus routes, Christian schools and fundamental crap it just wearies the soul. The best thing that could happen for the cause of Christ in this area is for the fundamental movent to implode and die a very loud, very public, very detailed death. Only then will the Truth be able to be proclaimed in this area. You can’t spit around here and not hit a fundy church, that has split from a fundy congregation, that has split from a fundy congregation….. The residual fundy funk has just settled in this region like a brown sticky ooze, or ash from a religious tract spewing volcano and it has infected the entire local culture. It’s a cancerous religion that slowly kills and envelopes your life and even when you are out of it personally, you have to daily pass by the vomit and the pigsty while all the soul winners smile at you as they judge you, seeing clearly that you are in need of their religion. They run around like errant Knights for their cause, on their steeds, riding above the muck and mire never getting any on themselves calling all to join their crusades. “Come as you are and we will clean you up and make you one of us,” is their siren call, “After our own image will we re-make you.” In the image of the pastor will one be transformed to walk the straight and narrow.
Sooooo, Whatda’ ya think? Too Subtle?
As one who attended several SOTL conferences in the 70’s and 80’s, I can tell you that John R. Rice would have been embarrased to be at this conference. Both and he and his successor, Curtis Hutson, were adamantly against the KJV only crowd. I am not sure how these people can claim to be following in Rice’s footsteps.
It seems that they have marginalized themselves even more.
Don – tell us how you really feel. LOL.
I miss Mo. I wonder how he’s doing.
I still would love to see someone attending one of these w/ long hair & an array of various heavy metal and/or rap t shirts. 🙂 It’s a bit vengeful tit for tat, but it just feels like the laughs would be worth it.
the only way I’m attending a sword of the lord convention is as a suicide bomber.
I was unaware that you orthodox types went in for that sort of thing.
Reader Sampson?
now that I think about it, it might be fun to accost random people there and ask them if they’re 100% sure that they’ll go to heaven when they die.
or else call the kingdom hall and ask some missionaries to stop by and share the good news…
Anyone know where to find the conference schedule so we can see who preached what? This may be a guilty pleasure I’m indulging in, but I can’t help myself 😉
Ditto that!
@Loren: I’m around 🙂 I didn’t have much to say during college week since, glory to God, I never attended “bible” “college”. I’ve been busy with old friends, cigars, and rock concerts too. man, it’s good to be non-fundy!
on-topic: I bet the potlucks at these fundy conventions are out of this world. potato salad, “orange drink”, and angeled eggs… maybe I would attend after all…
@zippy I googled the conference to try to find a schedule as well. At least wanted a list of who the speakers were, if not a sched. All I can find is that logo Darrell used. I would assume there would people bl0gging about how wonderful the conference was. I can’t find any twitter hash tags about the conference either, and even searching “sword of the lord” I don’t spot any about the conference (or even the organization). Looks like controlling the message is working pretty well there.
My former pastor finally made it to the big leagues this year and was asked to speak at “The Sword”! It always seemed like a goal of his. In fact, as I look back through the years I was there, it seems that many of the decisions he made, the things he put into place, the beliefs and standards he adopted, the sacrifices and tasks he asked of his people were merely to one day be recognized and then invited to speak by this “spiritually-elite” group. This is no different than a caesar, king or dictator having his subjects toil to erect grand buildings and statues of themselves. It’s all man and self-worship.
Well Don, your post is spot on! I too live in the area and was forced to go to GLBC and also their school for almost 2 years. It is amazing how much influence IB churches have here. Every time friends come from out of state, they cannot believe the number of churches in this area. There is one within every mile. I just checked GLBC’s website and noticed they are building a new fellowship hall. How nice!
I attended several Sword Conferences since this is the crowd I grew up in as a child. I could guess the identity of several of the speakers based on the report. I do not miss this crowd at all! Thankfully my family no longer attends the Sword events, even if they are still fundies. My parents got fed up with Dr. Smith “preaching” about politics all the time.
I am bilingual. At the last Sword Conference that I went to I was already seeing fundieism for what it was. I carried a foreign language Bible with me. I came to expect the tap on my shoulder from a curious fundie asking “Is that Bible King James?” I was severely tempted to either say “No. It is better!” or “Duh. It is not in English. How could it be King James?” (I attended this event because it was the only chance I had to see certain family members. I am from a widely scattered family)
LOL @Mo! I would love to see the Kingdom Hall attend!
here’s a list of speakers I garnered from a certain ffforum.
Conference Speakers:
John Bishop
Kevin Folger
Paul Chappel
Joe Arthur
Norris Belcher
Tim Rabon
Shelton Smith
Jeff Fugate
Raymond Barber
Jeff Amsbaugh
Bobby Roberson
Lou Rossi
Clyde Box
R.B. Ouellette
Mike Allison
Max Barton
Mike Norris
Men’s Seminars
Terry Lee Hamilton – Legal Issues
Larry Staner – Soul Winners’ Club Training
Abb Thomas – Children’s Work
Shelton Smith – School of the Prophets
Sterling Walsh – Music Seminar
Jim Townsley – Church Planting
Ladies’ Seminars
Karen Amsbaugh
Helen Barber
Mila Norris
Sharon Rabon
Betty W. Smith
Janet Walsh
Special Music
David Chamberlin
Smith Trio
Terry Lawson
Sounds of Faith
Sterling Walsh
Barnes Family
Lonnie Moore
Hutson Trio
My daughter attended a “youth conference” at GLBC one summer, and came home totally traumatized by the preaching, one graphic sermon on hell in particular. It was four or five years before she recovered her peace about her salvation. She brought home a recording of the sermon about hell and I listened to it, and wondered what they were thinking.
They rented a water park one night, and divided it in half. The girls were on one side (in their culottes and dark t-shirts) and the boys were in the other half. At midpoint in the evening, they switched sides.
The first Thursday message sounds like the only one I could have comfortably sat through mixed with all the idol worship (someone had to say it) of these leaders.
Also if I’m not mistaken, weren’t several of the more prominent early Fundamentalist leaders also Masons (I saw somewhere that George Truett was one, can’t think of any other names)?
Those sermons on Hell can really mess you up. I have memories of being 5 or 6 and being in Sunday School. The teacher would show pictures of Jesus with the little children and animals and we would be told how much He loves us. They would then progress on to ” if you are not saved or if you are bad, you are going to burn in Hell.” That stuff used to keep me up at nights!
Outstanding. Respect to whomever stuck with this conference for almost an entire week.
I thought GLBC sounded familiar and then I realized that, not only did my high school play against them in basketball, but I once went to their summer youth conference. I remember the water park night someone else mentioned but my salient memory–from the entire week–is a revolting burping contest in which I literally feared the winner (a tiny teenage girl) was going to blow shreds of her esophagus out of her throat.
Stay classy, fundamentalism.
I spit my coffee out several times. I especially loved it when he went to the table asking for the KJV-1611 and then this short little line the next day: “I am still unable to find a KJV 1611.”
LMFAO I died laughing. I love it. I want to go hug this man.
There’s just nothing new in this camp. BJ Sr was preaching on “The Perils of America” back in the 1910’s, and, I imagine, he got that sermon from Billy Sunday. They are bereft of ideas. They contribute nothing to society. I’ll take my Message Bible and my prayer book any day over any of this claptrap.
@loren
A veritable most wanted list of all the ayatollahs and insurgents of fundamentalism.
Basically any guy wearing a suit, carrying a KJV who will preach against everything and anything and say stick with the “old, decrepit paths” gets a hero’s welcome at such conferences.
They say everyone else is the problem with America. Maybe the problem with America is them – they have said that for decades but never done anything about it but rant against it and shove tracts in people’s faces.
I’ve received the list of speakers from a gracious source and included them in the original post.
Go Pastor Amsbaugh – one of only 2 good reviews out of 13! He’s pastored my home church since I was 17 or 18. A decade later, I still think of him as “the new pastor” – probably because I was really only in that church for another year before leaving for college.
Love the search for the KJV 1611. Nothing better than calling someone out on this. I remember attending a King’s Kids conference while I was in a Fundy U and during one of the workshops they were teaching cutesy little Bible songs about the KJV. As I sat in the second row of about 5 (maybe 50 people in the room) I said “may I hold your Bible I’ve never seen a real KJV 1611”. The lady hands me her Bible and says, “Oh it truly is a precious treasure from God” I open it up look at it and loudly say, “Ah, this is no KJV 1611, look right here” (pointing to the date). I still remember the look on her face and the glares I got the rest of the workshop. All she said was, “well, umm, umm, umm, uh, continuing on now!”
Well, I’m pretty excited. The only two on the list that I’ve personally met (and heard preach in person), Paul Chappel and John Bishop, actually got pretty good reviews. I had the same of opinion of them as the writer. Nice to be in agreement with somebody for once.
@Kristy: Great story!
It is really great. It takes so much ignorance to be KJVO that hitting them with a few hard facts, showing that you know what you’re talking about, will either knock the superstition out of them or–unfortunately often–call up the ingrained fundy reflex to Die On This Hill. It’s worth it for the few that are willing to be informed.
My family spent several years caught up in the SOL camp, due to my dad attending Bible College at Tabernacle Baptist in Greenville, SC. That place ruined my childhood. I was 11 when we left. During the time we were there, I saw grown men using the church aisles as a racetrack during the message, all the while looking around to see who was looking at them. Every time any of the KJV princes had a new book, it was sold from the alter (yes, the one where all your major life decisions were to take place), and by having ushers go up and down the aisles selling them like peanuts at a baseball game. During this time, the Children’s home was operated by two pedophiles ( http://word.truthintheword.org/religion/sex-abuse-charges-at-tabernacle-childrens-home/ ). In their grade school, my teacher frequently beat 2 particular students with a plastic ruler to the point they had welts. The church was constantly in some sort of legal battle with someone–the state over widening the road, the state over the Children’s home, the county over the children’s home…. The main reason we left was because my dad, ironically by going to their Bible College, began to see the hypocrisy in the ultra-fundy sect.
Ministry Addict wrote:
“Well, I’m pretty excited. The only two on the list that I’ve personally met (and heard preach in person), Paul Chappel and John Bishop, actually got pretty good reviews. I had the same of opinion of them as the writer. Nice to be in agreement with somebody for once.”
Having been in his church for far too many years, I can tell you that Paul Chappell is just as:
KJVO
No pants on women
No jazz, rock, country, CCM
Soulwinning is everything
No movie theater attendance
Constantly fundraising to build his kingdom
Hero-worshipper
Pastor usurps the authority of the men in their homes
as all the other SOTL speakers are.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Usedtobefundy:
Mr. Chappell only had to be “right” (in my opinion) once (not even twice a day) in my case, because I only got to meet/hear him once briefly. John Bishop on the other hand I know pretty well, and the following:
“Constantly fundraising to build his kingdom
Hero-worshipper
Pastor usurps the authority of the men in their homes”
are untrue about him.
I have a KJV 1611 reprint, and y’all are tempting me to do something really mischievous. 😉
@Beth: Tabernacle! That place haunts my dreams, and I only went there twice. I was there the night a guy decided it would be cool to run up and down the aisle with a potted plant during the solo. Great way to traumatize a newly-minted 17-year-old BJU froshie. Very disturbing to know that while I was getting freaked out in their church, much worse had been happening to defenseless kids who were probably in the same room at the same time.
Oh wow, does this ever bring back memories. I attended 2 SOTL conferences in the mid 90s. I don’t remember the hero worship being quite this bad back then, but everything else was spot on. Maybe the hero worship has gotten worse in the past 20 years. After hearing all of these familiar names, I went and dug out my old KJV (not 1611) Bible and looked to see whose signatures I had in it. Yup. I really was a fundy nerd. I can find at least 4 from the list. I also have a few who have since passed away. Yay me. I must be spiritual for even having their signatures in my KJV Bible. I remember one of the conferences talked about how bad televisions were and he took a sledgehammer to one on stage. And he was jumping all around and over pews. Why didn’t I think it was strange then? I sure do now!
I loved the reporter’s claims that it would not be fair and balanced reporting. And looking for a KJV 1611 – priceless. Plus I would’ve liked to see the face of the man the reporter challenged on the age of the Baptist denomination.
I lived in Puerto Rico for more than 2 decades, and some missionaries tried to bring KJV-Onlyism into the country. Three missionaries come to my mind; one remained in the ministry for about 2 years and eventually closed his 9-member church, the second one had to use the Reina-Valera 1960 Bible (the one that most Latin-American people use) if he wanted his 25-older-people congregation to keep worshiping there, and the other one has a decent-sized church…which happens to be English-speaking!
Attempts to bring the KJV to the Spanish-speaking world (one of which I was involved in before I came to know a “more excellent wayâ€) include,
– The McVey Translation (which translated “Holy Ghost†as “Fantasma Santo†(“holy
phantomâ€). Did not survive for too long!
– A modernization attempt to the old, old, old 1602 Reina-Valera Bible (only a few industrial-
revolution-mindset churches actually use this)
– The Reina-Valera-Gomez Bible (based on the Masoretic Text, Scrivener TR, 1909 Reina-
Valera Bible, and of course, the Ol’ King James Bible! Chick Publications uses this
translation.)
– Barry Smith’s (Missionary to Mexico) attempt to translate the KJV directly into Spanish. (I
helped him translate, to my shame, three or four NT epistles!).
There’s a missionary called Calvin George in PR who attacks these translations but also promotes RV1960-Onlyism. Same book, different cover.
Boyds of a feathah flock togethah.
Don said,
“The great Gospel Light Baptist Church, (I live in the area) and all the other contenders for the throne to be Queen Church around here. There is so much competition in this area with over lapping bus routes, Christian schools and fundamental crap it just wearies the soul. The best thing that could happen for the cause of Christ in this area is for the fundamental movent to implode and die a very loud, very public, very detailed death. Only then will the Truth be able to be proclaimed in this area. You can’t spit around here and not hit a fundy church, that has split from a fundy congregation, that has split from a fundy congregation….. The residual fundy funk has just settled in this region like a brown sticky ooze, or ash from a religious tract spewing volcano and it has infected the entire local culture. It’s a cancerous religion that slowly kills and envelopes your life and even when you are out of it personally, you have to daily pass by the vomit and the pigsty while all the soul winners smile at you as they judge you, seeing clearly that you are in need of their religion. They run around like errant Knights for their cause, on their steeds, riding above the muck and mire never getting any on themselves calling all to join their crusades. “Come as you are and we will clean you up and make you one of us,†is their siren call, “After our own image will we re-make you.†In the image of the pastor will one be transformed to walk the straight and narrow.”
I live about five minutes from Gospel Light Babdist Church in Walkertown. The pastor, Bobby Robertson, grew up with my father (now deceased). I was a member of that church briefly during 1983-1984. When I quietly stopped attending there, virtually nobody noticed (I was too shy and scared to tell anyone). I then got mixed up with the local Seventh-day Adventist church for most of 1984. From there it was various Pentecostal churches (fundies who fall out in the floor and talk in tongues) for several years before I quit church altogether. That was over twenty years ago, and I’m still struggling with all the crap I had to endure.
And during my stint at Gospel Light I did get to sample a SOTL conference. Yep, it’s Fundie preacher-worship on parade!
Ministry Addict wrote:
“Mr. Chappell only had to be “right†(in my opinion) once (not even twice a day) in my case, because I only got to meet/hear him once briefly. John Bishop on the other hand I know pretty well, and the following:
“Constantly fundraising to build his kingdom
Hero-worshipper
Pastor usurps the authority of the men in their homesâ€
are untrue about him.”
I have no knowledge of Mr. Bishop, and have not attributed any of those traits to him. I was speaking only of the pastor I have many years of experience with – Paul Chappell.
But I am suspicious of any pastor who could agree with the SOTL enough to be one of their speakers. Does the hero-worshipping stuff offend your friend?
Anyone else ever hear any of these men speak? I’ve seen most of them speak. I swear they learned to preach from Captain Caveman!!!
@Darrell, ahh, a post including “Dr.” Norris Belcher. I am glad that he delivered for you. I knew he wouldn’t disappoint. He just can’t help himself. I have heard many of those people speak. Many of them were or are pastors of Open Door which is where i went. Such a treat. I’m telling you I don’t know how this guy slides under the radar. If you thought their preaching was condescending, wait until you meet them. By the way, how the heck did you even manage to stay almost all week. Had you been feeling too good about yourself and needed spiritual punishment? I guess sometimes its nice to be reminded of what you’re running from.
Wow, count your blessings…at least none of the speakers tried to outgruesome each other about the Crucifixion, a pastime that is often a fundy staple at Bible conferences. That was something that always pained me greatly when guest speakers @PCC did that; it seemed to me to seriously cheapen what should have been treated most reverently. (Hint to fundie menagawd: comparing Christ to uncooked hamburger over and over in hopes of nauseating your audience isn’t reverent.)
And I can’t believe how many of those speakers I recognize. I believe the vast majority spoke at PCC while I was there. PCC and the Sword seem to be pretty close these days.
I don’t get why people do that. The Bible doesn’t. Why should we?
#1 bobby robertson is a very nice person #2 most everyone understands when someone says 1611 they are refering to the year king james authorized the translation. #3 pk Hell is scary..